-All RotS versions
-Canon and EU sources allowed, though I’d prefer to know which you’re using
-Fight takes place on the Invisible Hand where Anakin and Obi Wan fought Dooku
Which team would win this fight?
I give a very slight majority to Team 2 in canon. Dooku seems to be particularly effective against Obi-Wan, and Mace matched Sidious who is IMO Anakin's superior. However, if Obi-Wan faces Windu, maybe the former's proficiency when fighting defensively could manage to stall Mace long enough for Anakin to defeat Dooku, so I think Team 1 does have a chance.
Mace is canonically the best duelist here, and Dooku is canonically the most experienced, has beat Kenobi twice before, and has force lightning. They get the solid majority here.
However, that isn't to say Anakin and Kenobi won't make them work for it. Anakin has the most raw power here, and Kenobi arguably has the best saber defense here, at least being close to everyone else in saber combat alone, plus they have better teamwork. They will make Mace and Dooku work for it, but the ultimately lose due to Kenobi getting taken out by Dooku via the force, or outright beaten by Mace, while Anakin can beat Dooku in a 1v1, I don't think he can beat Mace for a majority.
@jacensolo77: Anakin beat Dooku so easily because he was amped and countered Dooku with his raw strength. Earlier in the fight Dooku kicked Anakin aside so he could take out Obit-wan. Anakin couldn't beat Kenobi later on. Fighting style and mindset can change a fight.
@alextheboss: Anakin couldn't beat Kenobi due to mental hinderances and being an emotional wreck, the ROTS Novel made that fairly clear. And Anakin was stomping him well before becoming amplified lol.
Skywalker was all over him.
The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-
Skywalker was getting stronger.
Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.
He decided he'd best revise his strategy once again.
He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious.
That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze and now Kenobi was back in the picture: with a shout of the Force, he shot like a torpedo up the stairs behind Skywalker, and Dooku decided that under these rather extreme circumstances, it was at least arguably permissible for a gentleman to cheat.Revenge Of The Sith
@jacensolo77: It's clear from what you posted Dooku was losing due to not being able to keep up his stamina against Anakin's relentless assault, but Mace is younger and stronger than Dooku, he won't have the same problem. And Kenobi should also be hindered because he didn't want to kill his apprentice.
@alextheboss: It's clear from what you posted Dooku was losing due to not being able to keep up his stamina against Anakin's relentless assault, but Mace is younger and stronger than Dooku, he won't have the same problem.
Except I never argued Anakin could stomp Mace just beat him in a good fight lol. That showing is well outside of Mace's capabilities hence why it was brought up to prove Anakin's superiority, nothing Mace's done suggests he could stomp Dooku and though it in part was due to Anakin's strength it can't all be attributed to that, Dooku hasn't had problems with strength before, Anakin's just that good, Mace isn't.
And Kenobi should also be hindered because he didn't want to kill his apprentice.
Just read this, it explains the fight in great detail, Kenobi is not in Anakin's league, I disagree with bits and pieces of it but for the most part it's solid and true.
@laurus: The novel makes it abundantly clear he stopped holding back the second he realised he was being outmatched. The excuses to try and justify Dooku being trashed by Anakin aren't valid at all. Regardless Mace is an 8 bordering on a 9 and Anakin is a 9, Dooku isn't on that level, he's just an 8.
@breakofdawn: I addressed all that in my response to Alextheboss.
@jacensolo77: Regardless Mace is an 8 bordering on a 9 and Anakin is a 9, Dooku isn't on that level, he's just an 8.
Actually, Anakin only becomes a 9 as of Knightfall. I'm pretty sure Mace rotates between being a 9 and bordering on a 9, and we already have confirmation that Mace can contend with Sids.
@jacensolo77: To quote Nick Gillard: "He got trained too late, he got twisted by the Dark Side...he took Force LSD, and that's what made him a nine." Prior to this, he's a solid 8.
Mace hits his peak during the fight with Sidious. The Vaapad amp is arguable nowadays at best, and putting too much stock in it for Mace's comparability to Sidious despite explicit points by Lucas and other official sources isn't a solid standpoint to debate it. Mace even during the fight is shown to be capable of partially deflecting a lethal Force blast by Sids while off-guard, out of Vaapad and turned away from him. He has multiple moments like this, where he displays some level of parity with Sheev.
@jacensolo77: I'm not interested in debating whether Mace was amped or not either. However, claiming that Anakin will beat him because he's a 9 and Mace is an 8 bordering on a 9 isn't a good argument. Mace, like Anakin, has contradictory sources putting him as either a solid 9 or an 8 bordering on a 9. Either way, Mace is perfectly capable of defeating ROTS Anakin through superior skill, comparable physicals and comparable if not superior power.
Now, if it was Knightfall Anakin I'd agree he takes it in a great fight. However, as it's not Mace would end up winning with high difficulty.
This statement is objectively false as per several sources that state Yoda dominated Dooku without effort. comparing it to Anakins duel with Dooku and saying his showing is superior is just flat out wrong.
Dooku was under express orders from Palpatine to not kill Anakin, do you really think he was going all out?
Aside from the passage in the novel which confirms Dooku will go all out if he feels his life is in jeopardy:
"No sense taking chances; even his Master would agree with that. Lord Sidious could come up with a new plan more easily than a new apprentice."
There is this quote from Lucas:
"Palpatine has told Dooku. 'I have somebody who I think will be a great Sith Lord and I think we can get him to join us. But we need to test him. So we're going to setup a situation where you fight him. If he gets the best of you, then I'll stop the fight and he'll have passed the test. , then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.' But behind it, obviously, is Palpatine's real intention:, Anakin can kill Dooku and become Palpatine's new apprentice. But he didn't tell Dooku that."
--George Lucas, The Making Of ROTS; Page 41.
He told Dooku to 'get the best of him' pretty clear indication Dooku was to try his hardest to win. And Anakin can't be 'good enough' if Dooku was fighting significantly below his ability. Going by the novel anyways we already know Dooku stopped holding back, so the point is moot.
Nah Anakin as of RotS is better than Dooku, it's how the character is written.
Fascinating... so you don't think ROTS Kenobi can 'beat Dooku pretty quick'? So how is he the weak-link here? The way you wrote that message can imply that you believe either Kenobi/Anakin can easily beat Dooku - plus you've left out the fact that Mace is here. The fact that he gets beaten easily when double-teamed doesn't make him a weak-link, lmfao
@anonymousjedi: i literally already explained this. Listen now because I’m not wasting my time explaining it to you again. Rots kenobi and anakin would quickly kill off dooku before mace can react, then anakin and kenobi working together would surely beat mace. Dooku is the weak link. I believe in my opinion in a fair fight rots kenobi alone would beat dooku, as he went toe to toe with a bloodlusted anakin, and beating him in the end with strategy, so yes dooku is the weak link
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