Maul stomps due to being confirmed superior to Rebels Ahsoka who is > ROTS Kenobi via fighting a much stronger Vader and doing slightly better than Obi Wan.
Maul is barely below Dooku during Rebels.
Doing better than Obi Wan? Obi Wan completely stalemated Anakin over the course of a lengthy duel. Vader seemingly had the upper hand against Ahsoka.
Maul stomps due to being confirmed superior to Rebels Ahsoka who is > ROTS Kenobi via fighting a much stronger Vader and doing slightly better than Obi Wan.
Maul is barely below Dooku during Rebels.
Doing better than Obi Wan? Obi Wan completely stalemated Anakin over the course of a lengthy duel. Vader seemingly had the upper hand against Ahsoka.
Pre-Suit Vader had the advantage during most of the saber fight, but not to the same level he did against Ahsoka.. Not to mention Obi Wan and Anakin stalemated in the force push contest (although the novel has Anakin landing a few hits w the force on Kenobi). In the Vader vs Ahsoka fight, Ahsoka lands a force push that Vader tanks and it only sends him a few feet backwards. Later mid-fight he force pushes her off the temple with almost no effort.
OT: Team most times, but I could see Anakin being impulsive and making a stupid mistake and then Maul defeating Kenobi in a rather decent fight. Even then Maul is wiser and more experienced so he'd likely find a way to separate them. The way I see it, if Maul separates them, he wins. If the team stays together, they win. Overall Team 6-7/10.
Maul stomps due to being confirmed superior to Rebels Ahsoka who is > ROTS Kenobi via fighting a much stronger Vader and doing slightly better than Obi Wan.
Maul is barely below Dooku during Rebels.
Doing better than Obi Wan? Obi Wan completely stalemated Anakin over the course of a lengthy duel. Vader seemingly had the upper hand against Ahsoka.
Pre-Suit Vader had the advantage during most of the saber fight, but not to the same level he did against Ahsoka.. Not to mention Obi Wan and Anakin stalemated in the force push contest (although the novel has Anakin landing a few hits w the force on Kenobi). In the Vader vs Ahsoka fight, Ahsoka lands a force push that Vader tanks and it only sends him a few feet backwards. Later mid-fight he force pushes her off the temple with almost no effort.
Obi Wan stalemated a significantly hindered Vader in the force, not a pro for Kenobi, or a con for Anakin.
Eh this argument is all over the place tbh I don't even know what to think. I've heard only Anakin was hindered, both were hindered to the same or different extents, or that Anakin wasn't hindered at all just that Kenobi was amped. I honestly don't really know what to think anymore.
You're also being disingenuous about the Rebels fight. Both Ahsoka and Vader caught each other off guard with force pushes, however saying Vader sent her farther with no effort is based on nothing, especially since Vader didn't actually send her farther, he just pushed her off a cliff.
How did either of them get the other off Guard? They were in midst of a lightsaber battle and neither was distracted or anything of the like. I based the "effortless" comment off his force push seeming much easier than Ahsoka's. I may have exagerated though, so I'll give you that.
OT: Team most times, but I could see Anakin being impulsive and making a stupid mistake and then Maul defeating Kenobi in a rather decent fight. Even then Maul is wiser and more experienced so he'd likely find a way to separate them. The way I see it, if Maul separates them, he wins. If the team stays together, they win. Overall Team 6-7/10.
I take it you think this team beats ROTS Kenobi as well?
I don't see how ROTS Kenobi could lose honestly. Both aren't as powerful in the force (Anakin has more potential ofc but at this point he's just a padawan) and neither won't be able to break his Soresu defense. Obi Wan became far more skilled during the clone wars.
Just how would you rate Rebels Maul compared to his TCW counterpart, based on sources? For now I could change my mind on this one.
Eh this argument is all over the place tbh I don't even know what to think. I've heard only Anakin was hindered, both were hindered to the same or different extents, or that Anakin wasn't hindered at all just that Kenobi was amped. I honestly don't really know what to think anymore.
Canon wise Vader was in a "world between worlds", in legends Gillard stated that the duel was heated and filled with tension, though Obi Wan doesn't falter in those conditions while Anakin does (paraphrased but you get the point).
Obi Wan wasn't amped per say like his duel with Grievous, the novel depicts he just let go of his attachment for Anakin, where Anakin couldn't let go of Obi Wan; which lines up with Gillard's statement quite well.
Alright, this clears things up (though some argue he had a "oneness" amp). If I remember correctly when both were hindered Anakin was mostly stomping Kenobi (at least in the novel), which is what a hindered level 9 would do to a hindered level 8. As Obi-Wan let go of his attachment, he may have been amped to a degree or at least unhindered and could deal with him.
I rate Rebels Maul inferior to TCW Maul, but superior to ROTS Kenobi.
This is my line of scaling:
Rebels Ahsoka fought a decently more powerful Vader than ROTS Kenobi fought (Rebels Vader is confirmed prime) and did ever so slightly better than Kenobi, both have form advantages over said Vader so they cancel out as well.
This puts Rebels Ahsoka as decently > ROTS Kenobi
Then, Rebels Maul has a quote which puts him above Rebels Ahsoka per starwars.com:
So what we end up with is this
Rebels Maul>Rebels Ahsoka>ROTS Kenobi
Good arguments. I don't really argree with Ahsoka being over ROTS Kenobi since he imo put a better fight against Vader than Rebels Ahsoka did (I view ROTS Vader as w/ overall more power than any other Vader but just doesn't know how to use it, compared to the more veteran Vader in Rebels, making the latter a better fighter in canon), but Rebels Maul is often lowballed, he really isn't as weakened as people think.
Maul stomps due to being confirmed superior to Rebels Ahsoka who is > ROTS Kenobi via fighting a much stronger Vader and doing slightly better than Obi Wan.
Maul is barely below Dooku during Rebels.
Doing better than Obi Wan? Obi Wan completely stalemated Anakin over the course of a lengthy duel. Vader seemingly had the upper hand against Ahsoka.
Obi Wan was getting pushed back the entirety of the duel, Ahsoka managed to land some tags on a more powerful Vader.
Obi Wan was getting pushed back the entirety of the duel, Ahsoka managed to land some tags on a more powerful Vader.
Is that not mostly due to Soresu being a defensive form that relies on not pressing the offensive?
Ahsoka managed to land some tags on a more powerful Vader.
Yeah but Vader still held the upper hand whereas with Kenobi v Anakin it was a complete stalemate, further shown by their force battle in which they equal one another.
Anakin and Obiwan win with mid-difficulty. This version of Maul is post-prime and TCW Maul > AOTC Anakin and Obiwan > TPM Maul > Rebels Maul. Rebels Maul could however solo either Anakin or Obi-wan 1v1, but the team will overwhelm him.
Interesting, I think the fact that Obi wan is currently still using ataru is actually a flaw for fighting maul as ataru is almost all out offense with very little defense, which is not what you want because I can only name on one hand how many characters can complete with maul in an all out saber fight, he’s just too skilled, fast and ferocious. If kenobi was using soresu then he would most certainly win as it would find a flaw in mauls style eventually. Along with kenobi being the best ever practitioner of soresu. But if this is aotc versions then maul will most likely win
@lord_tenebrous: No he didn’t go head to head with ahsoka. she never once had the upper hand in the battle. And on top of that he was holding back like crazy as he wanted her to join him, he was the clear winner even though he wasn’t trying to beat her. Maul is just too skilled for ahsoka she would never be able to beat him or even go head to head with him
What battle are we referring to here? Because I explicitly said Rebels Ahsoka. Though, TCW Ahsoka was very much competing on Maul's level.
Im going to just go ahead and say that Obi-Wan solos for the fun of it. Post Prime Maul is bantha poodoo
He was able to go head-to-head with Rebels Ahsoka, so he's pretty good.
I have Rebels Ahsoka as like pretty near AOTC Obi-Wan level
Why? She was able to last several minutes against rebels Vader who'd easily kill AOTC Kenobi in that amount of time.
He wouldn't, but thats besides the point. She did not last several minutes against Vader and I do not have a high opinion of her performance in that fight. I wouldnt even pit her performance as better than how Kenobi did against Dooku
It definitely isn't besides the point. Please explain to me why AOTC Kenobi even lasts half as long as Ashoka did against Vader.
She did not last several minutes against Vader
My bad, not several minutes. She still lasted at least 2 minutes altogether.
and I do not have a high opinion of her performance in that fight. I wouldnt even pit her performance as better than how Kenobi did against Dooku
Kenobi was casually toyed with by Dooku, didn't land a single hit, and would've died in a minute had it not been for Anakin's interception. Ashoka managed to clash for longer against a serious Vader, landed a force push, and would've gone on to hold off Vader for longer if they hadn't fought at the edge of the pyramid vs losing in a straight up assault. We also have Filoni's WoG that Ashoka can in fact hold her own against Vader, the same can't be said for AOTC Kenobi against Dooku.
Don't get me wrong, Vader is clearly superior to Ashoka but the gap is smaller than that of this Kenobi and Dooku.
Interesting, I think the fact that Obi wan is currently still using ataru is actually a flaw for fighting maul as ataru is almost all out offense with very little defense, which is not what you want because I can only name on one hand how many characters can complete with maul in an all out saber fight, he’s just too skilled, fast and ferocious. If kenobi was using soresu then he would most certainly win as it would find a flaw in mauls style eventually. Along with kenobi being the best ever practitioner of soresu. But if this is aotc versions then maul will most likely win
According to one source (so perhaps different from yours), Kenobi stopped using Ataru after the duel on Naboo. He supposedly realized Form IV's flaws after Jinn died. By ROTS, he was the Soresu master (Mace Windu ROTS), so he would have needed to be using it for longer than three years (the time between AOTC and ROTS) to have gotten that good. Based on what I read, he began using Form III right after Naboo.
@lord_tenebrous: No he didn’t go head to head with ahsoka. she never once had the upper hand in the battle. And on top of that he was holding back like crazy as he wanted her to join him, he was the clear winner even though he wasn’t trying to beat her. Maul is just too skilled for ahsoka she would never be able to beat him or even go head to head with him
What battle are we referring to here? Because I explicitly said Rebels Ahsoka. Though, TCW Ahsoka was very much competing on Maul's level.
Filoni said that Ahsoka < Maul in power and skill, but that Maul needed to lose the fight.
In the episode, Maul wasn't trying to kill her until the end. As usual, PIS jumped in, and Maul apparently underestimated Ahsoka, per Filoni (Clone Wars Download interview, one of two of Filoni for that episode).
I'm not sure if this is Canon or not, but it's on the SW's website in the News section. This is from a series about each Rebels episode:
When we first meet him, this “Old Master” is frail, hesitant, even fearful. As the story continues, you see those traits melt away, but there’s a flow to it. The more Ezra trusts, the more Maul becomes himself until, finally, he’s at full strength and more powerful than ever.
We know that mentally, Maul was past his prime and glory days when he showed up on Rebels (Witwer). Martin said that Maul was rusty. But that was when he first showed up. After reading the above quote, I realized that Maul was rusty, but he shouldn't have lost his power and skill, so the quote makes sense.
Filoni kind of confirms this when he discusses the "Twin Suns" duel and says that these guys are highly skilled duelists. He's also said that Maul is in the Vader realm (RFR).
Some of you are discussing the Vader/Ahsoka duel. Ahsoka was ready to kill Vader (I will avenge his death), but at the beginning of the duel, Vader says he wants information from Ahsoka. Vader was expecting something from Ahsoka and even puts away his lightsaber. He anticipated meeting her because it was "foretold". He thought that he was going to get the information from her (and possibly not even be enemies), but later after they began their duel, he realized that wouldn't happen. Toward the end of their duel, she knew who he was, and Vader determined that she had to die because of it (Filoni, BluRay interview season 2). Vader says he is going to kill Ahsoka. That's when the Temple crashes. In season four, Ezra knew that Ahsoka died/would have died, so he went back in time to save her. Vader didn't need saving. The Temple was destroyed by the giant kyber crystal explosion, which should have killed him. He and Ahsoka were not equals, although she was highly skilled and powerful.
God, the ABC Logic used in so many Star Wars battles is getting old. That logic never flies in normal Comic battles, and it should here, even if the characters in-universe might all have relatively similar powersets.
Anyways, Inquisitors are like, high Padawan level, below both of team 2 who are High and Mid Knight Tier, respectively. Maul was unable to defeat 3 Inquisitors at once despite killer intent. Granted, he might have been able to eventually, but it wasnt an easy affair. To compound the problem of this low showing, Maul gets no valuable feats in Rebels to contradict it. We can clearly see that Maul has not improved whatsoever since his TCW Days, and had deteriorated to the point of requiring cheap tactics just to immediately get 1-shot by an Obi Wan that can be argued to be out of his physical prime. The best argument that I can make For Maul is based on Ahsoka scaling, but we cant garner reliable information in that fight due to the circumstances, and Ahsokas sole good feat in Rebels is getting stomped by Vader, twice, back to back.
As for the actual battle, I see no reason as to why the duo does not sweep the Victory. Either of them are close to his level of skill, and both have experience fighting and defeating an arguably more powerful version of Maul, albeit, Anakin’s was in the form of a Training Hologram.
It definitely isn't besides the point. Please explain to me why AOTC Kenobi even lasts half as long as Ashoka did against Vader.
She did not last several minutes against Vader
My bad, not several minutes. She still lasted at least 2 minutes altogether.
and I do not have a high opinion of her performance in that fight. I wouldnt even pit her performance as better than how Kenobi did against Dooku
Kenobi was casually toyed with by Dooku, didn't land a single hit, and would've died in a minute had it not been for Anakin's interception. Ashoka managed to clash for longer against a serious Vader, landed a force push, and would've gone on to hold off Vader for longer if they hadn't fought at the edge of the pyramid vs losing in a straight up assault. We also have Filoni's WoG that Ashoka can in fact hold her own against Vader, the same can't be said for AOTC Kenobi against Dooku.
Don't get me wrong, Vader is clearly superior to Ashoka but the gap is smaller than that of this Kenobi and Dooku.
She did incredibly poorly against Vader, lasted 56 seconds (I counted) and after the first 20 seconds she was getting staggered by every one of his direct hits. It was very, very clear that he was overwhelming her and its unlikely he had even resigned himself to killing her at that point seeming has he had (very out of character) offered to let her live. Kenobi lasted far longer against Dooku.
The term "holding ones own" is somewhat relative, so I really dont much care about that WoG unless we know what it means to him. Mot everyone ive met has different ideas of what that means
Landing a force push doesn't mean anything unless you think Kanan and Ezra are capable of holding their own too
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