Amalgam Tournament R1: Void_Reborn vs DeathHero61

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An Amalgam Tournament of Street Level Proportions™

Void_Reborn

  • Parent 1: Legends General Grevious
  • Parent 2: Reboot MK Scorpion
  • Perk: "The Future is Now, Old Man!" (Morals Off/Same Gender Parent)

VS

DeathHero61

  • Parent 1: IDW Shadow the Hedgehog
  • Parent 2: Robin (Teen Titans Cartoon)
  • Perk: "The Future is Now, Old Man!" (Morals Off/Same Gender Parent)

Setting

Start 60ft away from each other on Ground Floor, Within Line of Sight
Start 60ft away from each other on Ground Floor, Within Line of Sight
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T4V

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@void_reborn: You guys can decide who starts, 2 weeks minimum between posts

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Considering this is a tourney post and I couldn't be bothered to make this too crazy of a post compared to my usual openers, this will be very bare bones and to the point. So bare with me.

Introducing: Ultimātus

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Parents: Shadow The Hedgehog(IDW) and Robin(Teen Titans Animated)

This is probably one of the most well rounded non-hax builds in the tourney, this build is a focus on simply being able to deal with a variety of situations through combat skill, speed, and gadgets, all while having the power to keep up with virtually anyone. We'll call my Amalgam Project Ultimātus

Shadow: The UIltimate Life Form

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I'll start with Shadow since he will be easy to dive into. Shadow is one of Sonic's greatest rivals and is the "Ultimate Life form". IDW Sonic The Hedgehog is based off the games, and inspired by the games even taking in its story to make a new one. And one thing they kept consistent is that Shadow is still an equal to Sonic The Hedgehog, they can perform literally all the same moves, are just as fast as each other,(Sonic having a slight edge at best) just as tough. Shadow's got a little more edge and a couple more tricks. This is going to add a lot to what my Amalgam is going to bring to the table.

Speed and Mobility Of The Life Form's Spawn:

Speed is literally what high tier Sonic characters are known for, mostly Sonic and Shadow, exhibiting supersonic speeds across all mediums, Shadow's speed and mobility keeps him quite ahead of your Amalgam from what I can tell.

For one, Shadow can run at supersonic speeds alongside Sonic, showing a kind of travel speed and control that allows them to even stop on a dime while moving, showing that their speed is sustained and that they can perfectly control their speed.

The one thing Shadow has over Sonic that makes him a lot more dangerous with his mobility, is his power to induce Chaos Control, which he uses for the manipulation of space and time while using a chaos emerald. Without one he can still teleport short distances which gives him a huge edge in mobility, allowing him to stomp Sonic in a race.

IDW Sonic The Hedgehog Issue 6: Sonic vs Shadow.
IDW Sonic The Hedgehog Issue 6: Sonic vs Shadow.

We know Shadow stomps him because well into Shadow's conversation with Eggman, Sonic finally appears. Considering we know Sonic and Shadow are roughly equals, we know he covered a significant amount of more ground doing constant teleports to get ahead of Sonic. To show this kind of speed isn't for show Sonic has reacted to massive bullets and avoided them from various angles. Tank rounds have a muzzle between Mach 1 to Mach 2, so this falls in line with not only the limitations of the tourney, but the statements of Sonic's own speed suggesting that moving at Mach 1 is casual for Sonic. So assuming that moving at twice that speed takes effort sounds logical and consistent with the feats I presented.

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But speed means nothing if you don't have the power to make a dent right?

Destructive Force Of The Ultimate Life Form: The Destructive Force Imbued in Ultimatus' Genes

Sonic is a pain in the ass to an evil genius with a gigantic robot army for a reason. Sonic and Shadow needed a lot more than sheer speed to get by when it came to bashing robots and aliens, or each other. With the application of supersonic speed, Sonic's and therefore by extension Shadow's, damage output gets incredibly high, enough to hang with characters like Spiderman and Venom.

On top of being a borderline speedster he has the raw force to boot, making him a true force to be reckon with.

In addition to that Shadow even has energy projection, This isn't limited to mere energy blasts, Shadow can literally create a spear and use it as a weapon.

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In addition to that speedsters can generate small tornadoes with enough momentum and speed. Allowing for another way to trip up opponents.

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So on top of being incredibly fast he's extremely deadly to boot. But these traits alone wouldn't be enough to convincingly beat your build this is why Robin's side of the build covers any and all bases necessary to win a fight. Shadow offers the raw mobility while Robin offers the versatility and well rounded skills.

Leader of The Teen Titans: Robin

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The animated Teen Titans took things in an interesting direction, being clearly inspired by different forms of media and storytelling because compared to the actual comics, this show can be a real breath of fresh air with its humor, simplification of certain characters and most notably its action. Robin leads a team of super powered heroes, while being the only one without powers, unlike the comics where he seems drastically below the others, this iteration of Robin is blatantly superhuman and he hangs with his peers.

The Results of The Physical Training Passed Down to Ultimatus

Robin's most notable attribute is his striking strength, he isn't a heavy lifter like Starfire and Cyborg, but he knows how to throw his weight around, and combine that with Shadow's speed and you have a decent level of force at your disposal.

The crazy thing about this version of Robin is that with all these powerhouses you wouldn't think he would actually pose a threat to anyone physically, but Robin has kicked everyone's ass at least once and his striking strength is a testament to that. He isn't as strong as Cyborg or Starfire, but he can smack around people in their weight class. His track record gives him all the credence he needs to suggest he could hang with the toughest in this tourney.

Robin is also the most naturally nimble on the team and great combat speed and reflexes. Its how he gets by.

That should be enough for now.

The skill, physical strength and striking strength on Robin's end will assist Ultimatus because he won't be too reliant on speed for his attacks. But in addition to all this he will also have a large assortment of technology to cover his bases.

Versatility of Dick Grayson: Flexibility of Technology

This next section is to talk about some of the many gadgets Robin has at his disposal and how they will aid the progenitor of Shadow and Robin. Robin wouldn't be able to hold his own against so many villains if he didn't at least have some tools that would make up for his lack of powers.

Like I said, Robin has a lot of tools to get him by, his other teammates are carried by energy projection, or magic or shape shifting., Robin has a tool for most situations, but his basic arsenal of gadgets and tools includes but is not limited to:

He still has other gadgets I haven't mentioned yet that could be useful, but as you can see he has a little something for every situation. More than versatile enough to handle anything you could throw at him.

And to wrap things up lets briefly go over how awesome a combination of the two would be.

The Finished Product: Project Ultimatus

Finally the combination of these two combatants would be absolutely terrifying. Imagine Robin's slick and smooth fighting style with Shadow's super speed. On top of the fact that this composite would be able to fight effectively at the speeds he travels.

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Imagine if our characters matched each other in combat speed. Now imagine that plus the raw movement speed and mobility on top of smooth teleportation, and a loaded arsenal. Ultimatus could go for so many potential strategies with his super speed and his skill.

Like sneaking one of his discs underneath his opponent during close quarters engagements

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Or to ensure he tags you more often throw out one of his discs, and then follow up with a birdarang to detonate it before impact

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The best part about this feat is that Robin conditioned Madame Rouge to go for a specific defensive option like sidestepping Robin's projectiles, only to realize what his maneuver was too late. This is an incredibly easy way to catch someone off guard, and replace this with explosive disks and you have an even more powerful strategy.

Now imagine all this with the speed and momentum of Shadow's potential throws. Lets go back to the strength feat I cited. Ultimatus is going to be throwing projectiles at high speed and performing various complex actions at high speeds as well, along with moving around the battlefield at supersonic speeds, teleporting around and stuff, so avoiding tactics like the one above would be even harder. This would be similar to what Sonic did in Sonic CD

So on top of being a straight up speedster, Ultimatus will be trained in close quarters combat, a variety of weapons, and ready to handle virtually any situation. The next move is yours.

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@deathhero61: Nice opener, my response may take a while because I'll be busy in the coming days but the latest would be next, next Monday.

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#17  Edited By Void_Reborn

Phantasm

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Phantasm is the unearthly amalgamation of General Grievous from the Legends Star Wars continuity and Scorpion from the Mortal Kombat reboot. As a result of this, he inherits both of their equipment, abilities, stats, skills, traits and powers; making for a terrifying combatant - especially when up close.

General Grievous - The Knight Slayer

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Grievous is a monster.

The Separatist Supreme Commander is an abomination of nature, a fusion of flesh and droid-and his droid parts have more compassion than what remains of his alien flesh. This half-living creature is a slaughterer of billions. Whole planets have burned at his command. He is the evil genius of the Confederacy. The architect of their victories.

The author of their atrocities.

~~Revenge Of The Sith: Novelisation

Standard Equipment

  • 4 Lightsabers
  • DT-57 Heavy Blaster Pistol

Scorpion - Revenant Of Hell

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Scorpion is the flagship character of Mortal Kombat. The netherrealm's ruthless spectre, champion of the Shirai Ryu clan and hellspawn embodiment of rage, vengeance, and pain.

Standard Equipment

  • Dual Katanas
  • Dual Axes
  • Kunai

Physical Capabilities

Strength

My amalgam can draw from numerous feats and statements regarding General Grievous and Scorpion pertaining to his incredible strength.

  • General Grievous casually pierces the beskar armor of several Mandalorians with his claws whilst charging through and slaughtering a group of them:
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This is the same beskar armor that is known as a material resistant to LIGHTSABER blades.

beskar, was a legendary and extremely durable ironore in the Star Wars Galaxy whose only known source was the Outer Rimworld of Mandalore and its moon, Concordia. The Mandalorianwarrior culture that inhabited Mandalore mined their planet for beskar, using it in the creation of weapons, armor, and starships, occasionally even selling the rare and valuable metal on the galactic market. Beskar is enormously strong, able to deflect blaster bolts and even lightsaber blades. Yet it is light and flexible, particularly when forged with carbon and ciridium.

-Strategic Resources of The Galaxy

"By the Force! I thought a lightsaber could cut through anything. The walls are barely scratched. The only thing that can resist a lightsaber is… Mandalorian iron!"

-Exar Kun

  • Grievous crushes Jedi Master Soon Bayt's skull, a renowned lightsaber duelist within the Jedi Order
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  • Grievous smashes the skull of a Neimodian simply due to being annoyed at his constant screaming

The surviving Neimodian pilot was screaming orders for the droids to magnetize, then started howling that the ship was breaking up, and managed to make so much annoying noise that Grievous smashed his skull out of simple irritation. Then he looked around and realized he'd just killed the last of his crew: all the bridge crew he hadn't slain personally had sucked up the bulk of the random blaster ricochets.

Grievous shook the pilot's brains off his fist. Disgusting creatures, Neimodians.

-Revenge Of The Sith: Novelisation

  • Scorpion obliterates an enemy's head and skull in a single punch after pulling him from a large distance.
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  • Grievous drops down onto Sha'a Gi, instantly killing him.
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  • Grievous dodges a telekinetic attack from Ki-Adi-Mundi by leaping an incredible distance and proceeds to use this as an opportunity to rebound off the wall, slamming head first into the ground, creating a miniature shockwave and kicking up dust and debris, separating the Jedi and isolating Master K'Kruhk. It is also worth nothing that he sustained no damage from this action.
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  • Grievous rips open a metal elevator door with ease
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I'm sure Robin's metal Bo Staff is a formidable, efficient and versatile tool perfectly suited for his fighting style and numerous situations he finds himself in. Unfortunately for his main go-to weapon for close quarters combat, this is what Grievous does to Phrik alloy, a metal of a staff designed to withstand and resist lightsaber blows, created specifically for the specialised IG-100 Magnaguards that the Confederacy uses to hunt down and kill Jedi.

I'll let the image speak for itself:

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Durability

This portion will cover Phantasm's durability which will showcase why he is fully capable of tanking the vast majority of attacks that Ultimatus throws at him and come out relatively unscathed. That is, if his attacks ever slip through the lightsabers of course.

You mentioned that speedsters like Sonic and Shadow are capable of creating miniature tornados through sheer momentum and speed in order to stagger/trip up their opponents. If my amalgam happens to get caught inside of this influx, even though he'd just escape immediately as a first response, he is fully capable of taking its full force head on.

  • Planting his claws into the ground and retracting his headpiece, Grievous is able to walk through a destructive gust of wind which was ripping up the ground and sending dozens of B2 Super Battle Droids, who are comparable to if not superior to those bots in the comic caught by the speedsternado, being composed of a thick duranium and phrik alloy frame and armor plating, flying back. The Ithorian Jedi Master here was producing a concussive scream powerful enough to shatter duraplast, iron and shred plasteel.

Duranium was a substance much stronger than either transparisteel or bronzium, more durable than titanium but less resilient than impervium. It was extremely durable, light, and was capable of withstanding a glancing blow from a lightsaber; however, would be cut through cleanly with a more powerful strike or slash. It was often used to make prison cells and cages but was also outfitted into military grade plating.

Not only do we have one of the most resistant alloys in the Star Wars universe being shredded by this force scream, but it is also mentioned as being more durable than titanium, which, if I'm not mistaken, is exactly what Robin's cape is made out of (high density polymerised titanium) and yet, is known for its inability to withstand powerful lightsaber strikes.

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Notice how Grievous stands nonchalantly as the force of the wind is coming his way while droids and the ground itself is being ripped apart and thrown blocks away. This indicates that he is capable of withstanding the blast on its own, not budging an inch but only has to dig his claws into the ground in order to close in on the Jedi, having to actively move against the oncoming flurry. Fortunately for him, his advance will not be so slow in this battle of amalgams because of what Scorpion brings to the table, which I will get into later.

I noticed how Robin comes equipped with specialised and 'spammable', as you call it, throwables. I am confident that they will be nothing more than a minor annoyance to my amalgam as my next couple of durability feats will solidify. Although, this is in the rare, unlikely case that they actually connect with Phantasm, which I will delve into in the next category of this opener.

  • Robin's freeze disks are completely negated by Scorpion and what he's had to deal with in his life of rivalry with Sub Zero, a character who, at the height of his power, is known for freezing entire landscapes, terrain and environments in a matter of seconds.

In his battle against a possessed Sub-Zero, whose powers are amplified due his inner darkness being exploited, Scorpion gets completely frozen solid and breaks out from it instantly.

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  • Robin's explosive disks are rendered useless because of Grievous's durability feats against superior explosive damage.

Here, Grievous shrugs off being blown up by a rocket launcher at point blank, sustaining no damage whatsoever and also casually lands from an enormous fall.

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Although this belongs in the Speed section, Grievous is also casually running by an extremely fast mag-lift. I do not intend to mention much about his travel speed because your amalgam consists of Shadow, one of if not the fastest speedster among upper street tiers (if you can even call most of the characters we're using street tiers) and it would be pointless to contest against that particular physical but I'll just leave this here to show that Phantasm is no slouch in the running speed department either.

To add to the list, Grievous withstands being shocked by Durge's electric bolars and having both of Ventress's lightsabers directly slammed into his back.

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Considering you sent multiple of Sonic's feats under the category of Shadow's destructive force, I'm going to assume you hold them as near-equals and are under the assumption that both could pull off similar feats. Regardless, I'd like to see scans and/or statements that show them being within such close proximity of one another on scaling if that was your intent to begin with. Do remember that these are not Shadow's feats and even if parity is present, it would be false to say he performed those directly which I'm sure you wouldn't do. Just mentioning.

As for Shadow's energy projection, I'll hold off on scans regarding my amalgam's resistance to energy bolts, blasts and damage until you provide more information on Shadow's energy blasts. For now, I'll address his ability to conjure energy weapons such as spears and how Phantasm will be very much capable of dealing with it.

Aside from Grievous's feat of tanking lightsabers, weapons that are likely far more powerful than Shadow's energy weapons, slamming into him, there is also the fact that the electromagnetic pulse-generating, phrik-alloy staffs that Grievous's magnaguards are armed with are incapable of hurting Grievous despite his nature as a cyborg. These are the same staffs that, at lower settings, are used to incapacitate targets, used as torture devices and, at higher settings, deliver a fatal killing blow with a deadly charge or overload systems/consoles with the electricity output.

He snarled, "Do you think I am foolish enough to arm my bodyguards with weapons that can actually hurt me?" -General Grievous to Obi-Wan Kenobi | Revenge Of The Sith

While Ultimatus is equipped with a variety of destructive abilities, attacks and equipment from both the catalogues of Shadow and Robin, it would seem that a majority of his output falls under the category of or weaker than attacks which Phantasm shrugs off on a daily basis. I am confident that my character has an answer and capacity for just about anything Ultimatus is able to throw at him.

But well, if there was ever any doubt..

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Grievous withstood being at the epicentre of an explosion which engulfed and devastated an underground city and shook the very structure of the planet due to the following chain reaction

Speed & Reaction Time

Ah, you may have noticed I skipped out on the kinetic/physical damage your characters are able to inflict or, more specifically, their punches and kicks. I am not opposed to the idea that knocking around metal sonic and cyborg is proof enough that, if they connect, those hits would definitely do something similar to Phantasm. In spite of this, I doubt Ultimatus will be able to get a decisive blow in at all. Enter, Speed & Reaction

Combat Speed

  • Grievous can throw blows faster than the eye can see, such that his lightsaber and fists would seem to vanish from existence. No human being can move remotely as fast as him, nor Obi-Wan Kenobi.

The electrodrivers that powered Grievous's limbs could move them faster than the human eye can see; when he swung his arm, it and his fist and the lightsaber within it would literally vanish: wiped from existence by sheer mind-numbing speed, an imitation quantum event. No human being could move remotely as fast as Grievous, not even Obi-Wan - but he didn't have to.

  • Grievous attacks Obi-Wan Kenobi unarmed with enough speed that the latter cannot fully register what is happening, and attacks faster than thought.

he spun, heaving Obi-Wan right off the deck with effortless strength, whipping him up over his head to slam him to the deck with killing power; Obi_Wan could only let go of the staff and allow the Force to angle his fall into a stumbling roll. Grievous sprang after him, swinging the electrostaff and slamming it across Obi-Wan's flank before the Jedi Master could recover his balance. The impact sent Obi-Wan tumbling sideways and the electroburst discharge set his robe on fire. Grievous stayed right with him, attacking before Obi-Wan could even realize exactly what was happening, attacking faster than thought

  • General Grievous showcases speed so fast that even a high tier Jedi like Obi-Wan Kenobi that has proven capable of blocking omnidirectional blaster fire is unable to fully react to and avoid it.

An instant later, too fast for even Jedi reflexes to avoid, Grievous' other arm struck Obi Wan. It was like being hit with a metal construction bar. Obi Wan's shoulder and half his side went numb, then flared into pain."

  • At a regular attack rate, Grievous's limbs can attack thrice in one second, all four together equalling twelve strikes per second, all from varying angles and at varying intensities. Even Obi-Wan Kenobi, the most prominent defensive duelist in all of Jedi history was beginning to falter under this prolonged assault. He was superhuman, amped by the force and has trained his whole life for this very type of opponent. And yet, he was not ready, he was not enough. Only the force itself could close that gap.

The electrodrivers powering Grievous's mechanical arms let each of the four attack thrice in a single second; integrated by combat algorithms in the bio-droid's electronic network of peripheral processors, each of the twelve strikes per second came from a different angle with different speed and intensity, an unpredictably broken rhythm of slashes, chops, and stabs of which every single one could take Obi-Wan's life.

  • By ramping up the rate of his strikes, Grievous goes from twelve strikes per second to twenty one strikes per second while fighting Obi-Wan Kenobi, overloading his defence. Meaning each of his limbs strike over 5x per second.

Grievous, snarling fury, ramped up the intensity and velocity of his attacks - sixteen per second, eighteen - until finally, at twenty one strikes per second, he overloaded Obi-Wan's defense.

  • General Grievous operates at a speed where he is able to effectively outfight and outpace Durge, a 2000 year old Bounty Hunter who, by his own statement, sees Jedi in 'slow motion', considering them slow and easy adversaries to kill. This is backed up by Durge having the second largest Jedi kill count in Star Wars history, just behind Grievous himself, and also beating the ever-living-crap out of Anakin Skywalker, a Jedi largely considered as the third fastest duelist in the Jedi order, with ridiculous physical amplification via force augmentation, just behind Mace Windu and Master Yoda.

Grievous. The most prolific slaughterer of Jedi since Durge. -Revenge of The Sith

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  • Grievous grants four Jedi, a handful of Red Guards and various other guards, the chance to activate their weapons, implying he could have killed them all before they could react. He also casually deflects blaster bolts with his clawed hands just for 'cool factor'.

The astonishment registered by Palpatine and his quartet of Jedi Knights assured Grievous that he could not have made a more dramatic entry. A large desk dominated the circular room, and banks of communications consoles formed the circumference. Centered in the curved wall opposite the entrance was a second door. Posing for effect in the polygonal opening, Grievous granted his opponents a moment to activate their lightsabers, force pikes, and other weapons. Also for effect, he deflected the initial flurry of blaster bolts with his clawed hands, before drawing two of his lightsabers.

The idea that he is capable of blitzing them if he truly felt like it does not come from mere speculation either. Here are some feats to support the implication:

  • Grievous casually stomps a group of Jedi Knights

Grievous enjoyed going against so many Jedi simultaneously. If time wasn’t of the essence, he might have protracted the fight. Feinting with the blade in his right hand, he removed the head of one Jedi with the blade in his left. Distracted when his right foot inadvertently booted the rolling head of his comrade, the Ithorian dropped his guard momentarily, and received as penalty a thrust to the heart that dropped him to his knees before he pitched forward.

Stepping back to absorb what had happened, the two remaining Jedi came at Grievous in concert, twirling and leaping about as if putting on some sort of crowd-pleasing martial arts demonstration. For practice, Grievous called two more blades from his belt, grasping them in his feet even as the anti-grav repulsors built into his legs were lifting him from the floor, making him every bit as agile as the Force did the Jedi.

With his four blades to the Jedi’s two, the duel had come full circle.

Whirling, he severed the blade hand of the Talz, then his opposing foot, then took his life, as well. Mists of blood formed in the air, swirled about by the ventilators.

The fourth he intimidated into retreat by wheeling all four blades, transforming himself into a veritable chopping machine. Fear blossomed in the Twi’lek Jedi’s dark eyes as she backed away. He had her on the run, poor thing. Best to put the Jedi out of her misery, Grievous thought. Which he did with a single blade to the heart-for it would have been cruel to do otherwise.

  • Grievous casually blitzes a group of clone troopers
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  • Grievous massacres a squad of clone troopers and Palpatine's personal guard faster than they can react

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  • Showcasing his cybernetic enhancements to the fullest, Grievous spins his lightsabers with such speed and fluidity that he seems to be standing within a pulsing sphere/tornado of energy.

Now he had four arms. And four hands. And each hand took a lightsaber as his cloak dropped to the floor.

They snarled to life and Grievous spun all four of them in a flourishing velocity so fast and so seamlessly integrated that he seemed to stand within a pulsing sphere of blue and green energy.

With a convulsive snarl, Grievous lunged.

The sphere of blue lightsaber energy around him bulged toward Obi-Wan and opened like a mouth to bite him in half. Obi-Wan stood his ground, his blade still.

Chain-lightning teeth closed upon him.

So now, facing the tornado of annihilating energy that is Grievous's attack, Obi-Wan simply is who he is.

Travel Speed

Along with the feat of running alongside an elevator that I posted earlier, here are some travel speed feats for Phantasm, just for the sake of proving he will in no way be overwhelmed by Ultimatus's speed.

  • Grievous moves so swiftly he appears to teleport.

Grievous moved so swiftly that he seemed to teleport from the window to half a meter in front of Gunray. "How much use is your money," he said, flexing his hand of jointed duranium in the Neimoidian's face, "against this?"

  • Grievous performs this visually, leaping away in a nigh-imperceptible blur.
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From what I can tell, although you have me convincingly beaten in travel speed due to Shadow's movement, your amalgam doesn't come close to Phantasm's combat speed and has more than likely never faced a combatant with such combat speed either, which will make it very difficult for you to cope in close quarters combat, with your strength and martial arts skills. Even if by unlikely chance he does, I am pretty sure trading a fist or kick connect for a lightsaber blow is not going to be advantageous to Ultimatus, especially since every blow he goes for will either be potentially dodged and risks him being maimed or worse by Phantasm. Furthermore, travel speed is not going to matter very much. Seeing as the tournament rules dictate that travel speed is limited to Mach 2, let's get into the reactionary part of this.

Reactionary Speed

Grievous states that he is a machine with living-intellect, possessing reflexes faster than what any Jedi or living being is capable of and that, because of this, they are simply outmatched:

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With incredible reaction speed, Grievous demonstrates tremendous speed and agility by dodging blaster bolts from dozens of Clone shooters as well as a gunship, and also dodges a barrage of missiles.

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Remember what I said earlier about Grievous blocking blaster fire with his palms just for 'cool factor'? Now, the fact is, they are truly incapable of damaging him. He is, in fact, fully capable of blocking them with his lightsabers just as any Jedi would and with even greater ease than them however he finds it simply unnecessary. Why put effort defending yourself against something that is simply no threat to you? And yet, he showcases tremendous reaction speed by blocking the shots with his arms, even when not taking the opposing squad of clones, guards and Jedi seriously.

Let's get into some calcs, shall we?

While there are some outlying sources that claim mere blaster bolts are lightspeed, it is more consistently shown and proven that they scale way below that and yet remain within the tournament regulations. Just to be clear, fair and to get the most accurate depiction of blaster bolt speed possible, I'll be using sources that fall into each other without anything contradictory.

He dived into the street. He rolled, coming up to slam her hip joint with his shoulder. The impact folded her over him; he lifted her, turned, and sprang back for the corner. Bright flares of blaster bolts bracketed invisible sizzles and finger snaps of hypersonic slugs. -Shatterpoint

Slugthrowers are similar to bullet-based weaponry in our modern world, having been dubbed 'obsolete' as blasters took to popularity in the SW universe due to more efficient ammunition with energy packs, it being easier to manage overheating compared to constant reloading and superior penetration power. Hypersonic also falls at a minimum of Mach 5, which fits exactly into the tournament restrictions.

We know that blasters in Star Wars Legends fly at similar speeds, due to this:

From his weapon's top barrel, a bluish-white high charged energy beam shot outward and upward. A microsecond after the beam's ignition, a second shot from the lower weapon's barrel rang out. To the two occupants of room 547, the shots were virtually simultaneous. The energy beam produced by the first shot hit the penthouse window fifteen centimeters away from the ambassador's chest, through this hole a lead alloy slug fired from the weapon's barrel sped through, hitting the ambassador. -Criminal Organisations, Hutts 1

A blaster bolt and slug were fired at a microsecond apart, the bolt hit the penthouse first than the slug came after. Note, the bolt was fired first and hit the window which was 15 cm closer to the shooter compared to the chest of the target, which was hit immediately after by the slug. Mach 5 is labelled as a speed of 1715 metres per second. Seeing as a millisecond is a 100th of a second and a microsecond is a 100th of a millisecond, let's divide out total speed by the 100 integer twice. 17.15 metres per millsecond. 0.1715 metres per microsecond. Now, considering the 15 cm distance difference, 0.1715 metres per microsecond directly converts to 17.15 centimetres per microsecond.

By this we can conclude that blasters and slugthrowers fit into almost the exact same speed, with the slug actually proving to be JUST a little faster, much to my surprise, quantifying it as Grievous being fully capable of easily reacting to Mach 5 projectiles.

Considering Ultimatus (and similarly, Phantasm) are capped at the Mach 2 Travel Speed mark, less than half of the speed of projectiles Grievous has proven he is able to actively react to, defend himself against and/or dodge, Ultimatus's travel speed advantage here amounts to what is essentially nothing and Phantasm will have no difficulty with it whatsoever.

Skillset And Esoterics

Combative Skills

This part of the post will cover the most impressive combative feats of both amalgam partners in conjunction with their vast array of skills and accolades that put Phantasm up there among the very best hand to hand and close quarters combatants of the tournament. This, along with the fact that any single attack from Phantasm's lightsabers will most likely be a fatal blow/one shot could mean death for your amalgam the moment our fighters engage head to head.

Lightsaber Skills

Dooku trained Grievous in the seven classic Jedi Lightsaber Forms, and Grievous subsequently did the same for his elite MagnaGuards, to the point they became more than a match for most. By this point, Grievous had such a knowledge with each individual lightsaber form that he was more skilled at all of them than the average Jedi was skilled with one. He could effectively hybridise all of the forms, nitpicking from the advantages each one gave and supplementing the weak points of some with the strength of others, making him nigh unbeatable in a straight duel, save the most POWERFUL and SKILLED of the Jedi, which would make up less than 0.2% of them.

Gunray saw that Grievous was accompanied by four of his elite MagnaGuards. Fearsome bipedal battle droids built to exact specifications, they stood as tall as the general and were armed with combat staffs tipped with electromagnetic pulse generators. Armorweave capes fell diagonally across their broad shouldered bodies, swathing the crowns of their heads and lower faces. Benefiting from Grievous’s own programming, as well as from the instruction Grievous had received from Count Dooku, the elite were trained in the Jedi arts, and more than a match for most. Dooku had taught Grievous well, and Grievous had taught his elite well. Coupled with Dooku’s coaching, their programming in the seven classic forms of lightsaber dueling-in the Jedi arts-made them lethal opponents.

Few, if any, Jedi would be able to defeat Grievous, and Dooku himself, having been stated and proven as slightly below if not a peer of Master Yoda himself, the most formidable duelist and force user within the Jedi Order, had been hard pressed on occasion to best the General in sparring sessions despite the fact that Dooku was the one who mentored and taught Grievous everything he knows about lightsaber combat. Dooku also intentionally held back from teaching Grievous everything he could, presumably to prevent himself from being overthrown by the cyborg.

Grievous had been a delight to train, as well. No need to coax him to release his anger and rage, as Dooku had been forced to do during the training of his so-called Dark Jedi disciples. The Geonosians had arranged for Grievous to be nothing but anger and rage. And as to the general’s combat skills, few, if any, Jedi would be capable of defeating him. There had been moments during the extensive combat sessions when even Dooku had been hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg.

But then, Dooku had kept some secrets to himself.

Just in case.

In Dooku's opinion, Grievous is more formidable and powerful than Asajj Ventress, his own dark apprentice who herself is capable of matching the combined might of Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi and pushing Mace Windu to his limits in order to defeat her.

He had a meeting scheduled with the formidable General Grievous, who was even more powerful than Ventress, but a great deal less interesting as a dinner-table conversationalist.

Martial Arts

As a ninja of the Shirai Ryu clan, Scorpion is skilled in numerous martial art techniques and fighting styles.

  • Ninjutsu
  • Hapkido
  • Pi Gua
  • Mugai Ryu
  • Moi Fah
  • Proficient in several other secret chinese martial arts

Feats

Now, let's take a look at what the two have accomplished owing to their intense training and expertise.

Let's begin this segment by going over Grievous's terrifying skill in hand to hand combat, before he even received any sort of formal training.

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  • Before Grievous had any formal combat training or experience, he was unleashed during the Battle of Geonosis. Within the catacombs of the Petranaki Arena, he slaughtered several companies of clone troopers who were backed up by Jedi, with nothing other than his claws.

Note, a clone company consists of 144 troopers, all trained from birth for a total of 10 years, their entire life dedicated for the sole purpose of being unleashed into the galactic spanning war and fighting until the battle they perish.

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  • Grievous is stated to have killed more Jedi in hand-to-hand combat than any other being in galactic history and stated by Star Wars producer Rick McCallum as the greatest hand-to-hand Jedi Killer that the galaxy has ever known and quite possibly THE best hand to hand combatant in the entire prequel era of the Star Wars timeline.

Now the supreme commander of the droid armies, he is distinguished by having killed more Jedi in hand-to-hand combat than any other being.

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Grievous is capable of analysing the fighting style of an opponent mid-combat and subsequently adapting to it within mere moments of a fight starting, and he did so while dueling Mace Windu for the first time, quickly responding to his use of the lightsaber form Vaapad with his own version of it in kind, adjusting his parries, ripostes and strikes to suit the opponent and fight most effectively. Mace Windu also correctly assumes that Grievous could be using Makashi, the form of lightsaber combat that his mentor, Count Dooku, specialises in as well as any of the seven lightsaber Forms in hybridised fashion.

  • Grievous duels evenly with Mace Windu, the most powerful and skilled Jedi within the order behind Yoda, atop a speeding mag-lev train. The general magnetized his foot talons to the roof of the train during the fight as to not fall, which restricted his mobility, whereas the Force granted Windu free range of motion, giving him an advantage. Grievous also only managed to open up with two blades instead of a four, lowering his attack potency, speed and unpredictability. Mace ends the fight prematurely by taking advantage of his mobility by cutting the ground out beneath Grievous' foot, causing him to fall. This is due to not wanting to duel the cyborg any longer as he was being stalemated and could potentially lose despite Grievous being hindered in 2 ways.

Without pausing, Grievous drew two lightsabers from inside his billowing cloak. By the time they were ignited, Mace was already on and all over the cyborg, batting away at the two blades, swinging low at Grievous's artificial legs, thrusting at his skeletal face.

The lightsabers thrummed and hissed, meeting one another in bursts of dazzling light. In a corner of Mace's mind he wondered to which Jedi Grievous's blades had belonged. Just as the Force was keeping Mace from being blown from the mag-lev's roof, magnetism of some sort was keeping the general fastened in place. For the cyborg, though, the coherence hindered as much as it helped, whereas Mace never remained in one place for very long. Again and again the three blades joined, in snarling attacks and parries.

As Mace already knew from Ki-Adi-Mundi and Shaak Ti, Grievous was well trained in the Jedi arts. He could recognize the hand of Dooku in the general's training and technique. His strikes were as forceful as any Mace had ever had to counter, and his speed was astonishing.

But he didn't know Vaapad-the technique of dark flirtation in which Mace excelled. Or so he thought..

His sole setting was attack. Successful at analysing Mace's lightsaber style, those same computers suggested that Grievous alter his stance and posture, along with the angle of his parries, ripostes, and thrusts.

The result wasn't Vaapad, but it was close enough, and Mace wasn't interested in prolonging the contest any longer than necessary.

Crouching low, he angled the blade downward and slashed, guiding it through the roof of the car, perpendicular to Grievous's stalwart advance.

-Labyrinth of Evil

Grievous casually bests a group of Jedi consisting of Ki-Adi-Mundi, Shaak Ti, Aayla Secura, K'Kruhk and Tarr Seirr, killing 3 of them, severely injuring 2 while another managed to escape due to clone elite reinforcements interrupting the fight.

Remember when I said Grievous easily stomped 4 Jedi in the speed segment? Well, among these 5 Jedi, 2 of which are Jedi High Council members. Ki-Adi Mundi and Shaak Ti. The Jedi High Council consists of the most talented, gifted, wise and powerful Jedi of the order so this is no small feat.

  • Grievous dominates two Jedi

He saw the lightsaber blade retract. By the time he had shouldered through the hatch onto the landing platform the Jedi had moved to either side. Even while continuing to parry blaster bolts, they surged at him, engaging the two lightsabers he drew from his cloak.

The duel raged through the hold. Battle droids lowered their weapons for fear of hitting Grievous. These Jedi were more proficient than the ones he had fought in the bunker, but not skilled enough to challenge him. The four blades seared through the recycled air, washing the burnished bulkheads with harsh light and outsized shadows.

Flanking him, the Jedi rushed in

Grievous waited until the last instant to command his legs to raise him up several centimeters. Then he extended his lightsabers straight out from his sides, angled slightly downward. Slipping past the flashing strikes of his opponents, Grievous’s blades pierced the chests of both. They fell away from him, faces contorted in surprise, of the sort only sudden death could bring.

  • Grievous takes advantage of his cybernetics, separating his arms in the middle of a saber lock to open up with his 2 extra blades in quad-blade mode and effortlessly cuts down Foul Moudama and Roron Corobb, two of the most highly regarded Jedi in the order. Moudama in particular was skilled enough with a lightsaber that he stood out even among the most extremely skilled combatants of the Jedi Order.

Foul Moudama was a gifted and graceful Jedi, though his origins are known to few. He possessed a fluid lightsaber technique and agility that stood out even among the extremely skilled combatants of the Jedi ranks. He had a keen visual acuity, stemming from his four eyes. Despite his large size and muscular build, he was quite agile. Enemies who underestimated him thought him a simple brute, but in truth, Moudama had mental agility to match his physical skills. He had an insatiable thirst for knowledge, and a serene nature developed through years of study of the living Force.

The peaceful Ithorians species have been a source of many great Jedi Knights of old, since their natural attunement to nature has given them a predilection for Force-sensitivity. Roron Corobb was one of the most well regarded Ithorian Jedi, having trained as Yarael Poof's Padawan before ascending to the rank of Master himself.

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  • Grievous gets the better of two Jedi Knights, making creative use of his 4 lightsabers and telling them that he has killed so many Jedi he can barely remember each individual name.
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  • In a fit of rage, Scorpion promptly outmatches and defeats a possessed Raiden, one of the Elder Gods of the MK universe
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  • [2:18 - 2:50] Hanzo defeats Sonya Blade in kombat.
  • [3:14 - 3:25] After being launched by Kenshi, he is still able to tackle him and isolate him from Sento.
  • [3:28 - 3:54] Scorpion easily deflects Johnny Cage's every attack. He defeats him in kombat shortly after.
  • [6:38 - 6:56] Dodges Frost's iceball after he sees her reflection and then easily defeats her.
  • [6:57 - 7:15] Scorpion defeats Sub-Zero and is able to land a killing blow on him until Kuai freezes Frost and explains the situation. It is to be noted that it is implied Sub-Zero is holding back here.
  • [10:03 - 10:30] Easily gets the better of Quan Chi.

Hellfire Powers

Scorpion is most commonly associated with hellfire, the Netherrealm's variant of fire. Being immune to the element, Scorpion can use his abilities to their fullest potential without any risk of harming himself in the process. His affinity with fire is so potent that he is completely immune to Sektor's high-powered flamethrower, calmly walking through the jet-powered fire without even so much as a singe on his skin or clothing. Due to tournament restrictions, I won't be going into Scorpion's ability with necromancy, summoning, virtual immortality and forming portals to and from hell at will, due to BFR restrictions.

That being said, Scorpion is still very versatile with this element and frequently takes advantage of any opportunity he has to fuse it into his fighting style and attacks, creating a gruesome, scorching variety of gore-inducing attacks that Mortal Kombat is known for.

Scorpion has the ability to teleport and can activate this ability with a mere thought, often used in the form of surprise or ambush attacks and in conjunction with his physical strikes. In Phantasm's case, lightsaber strikes. There is no limit to how many times he can use this ability and is quite spammable in its own right. He can teleport wherever he chooses as it is omnidirectional. Above, behind, beside, in front or even below the opponent. It is also a useful ability for getting around the battlefield, making quick escapes, initiating an attack from a distance or just to trip up your opponents, producing afterimages with every teleport that act like solid duplicates as shown in one of his moves where he leaves an afterimage behind to hold the opponent's arm before disintegrating. He can also create afterimages to trick opponents of his next move, confusing them as multiple stationary duplicates appear and vanish out of thin air with every teleport.

  • Scorpion showcases his ability to teleport multiple times in a very short timeframe, getting the better of a possessed Raiden.
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As for elemental attacks, scorpion has the ability to spew hellfire from his skull like a flamethrower, summon flames from under his opponent, light himself up with hellfire to create a damaging aura of flames that damage anyone close to him or anyone who hits him and gives him the ability to enhance his punches and kicks with helllfire, adding a whole new layer of pain and power to them. He can also hurl fireballs and other projectiles that explode on contact and manipulate wind to a certain extent to create a fiery tornado of hellfire or increase the temperature of the air in the surroundings.

Scorpion also has a powerful healing factor as he can burn away his own flesh at will, revealing a fiery skeleton that can burn (sometimes vaporize) anything he touches, and can regenerate all of it in a mere moment after doing so, making him very difficult to harm physically.

  • Scorpion demonstrating his typical skull flamethrower technique
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  • Scorpion shows the ability to enhance his regular melee attacks with hellfire
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  • Scorpion demonstrates his ability to envelope himself within an aura of hellfire
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Scorpion is well-versed in the art of armed combat, wielding various weapons throughout the tournaments, from axes and the recent twin katanas to his iconic kunai rope. Like his fists and legs, scorpion is fully capable of enhancing these weapons with hellfire as well. I think it would be awesome seeing someone fight with 4 lightsabers, all enhanced with fire flowing through their concentrated plasma blades, even though it serves no purpose other than a slight increase in damage radius for every strike.

Flame Spear - Scorpion launches two spears at the same time, both covered in hellfire.

Double Spear - Scorpion launches two spears at the same time where Scorpion ignites the chains with Hellfire when it connects and sends the flames to the opponent, setting them on fire.

  • Hanzo demonstrates the ability to enhance his kunai with hellfire
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  • Similarly, Scorpion showcases his ability to enhance his dual katanas with hellfire as well
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Closing Thoughts And Strategy

Just to summarise Phantasm briefly; First up, General Grievous's incredible durability, resistance, cybernetic enhancements that improve his speed, reaction time, flexibility, strength, movement and combat analysis tenfold, a striking/combat speed that is likely unmatched in this tournament with an ace in the hole being his lightsabers that shred and slice through just about anything they come into contact with and are most likely one shot material if they do connect.

Combined with Scorpion's formidable skill in a wide number of martial arts, fighting styles, vast array of powers in him being a revenant of hell, spawned from death itself, with abilities to conjure fire at will, teleport, create afterimages, enhance his own limbs and weaponry with fire and healing factor.

With Grievous's experience as a tactical genius and commander of the droid army in a galaxy-spanning war, having fought and killed hundreds of Jedi of all skill levels and types personally, along with Scorpion's lifetime of combat against fighters from all the realms from super soldiers and ninjas to gods and cyborgs, I see a bright, BLAZING supernova of a future for this duo.

The plan is actually very simple. Just cut you down. That's all. Phantasm possesses reaction time that exceeds your amalgam's speed by a very large margin, strength that rivals or potentially exceeds your most powerful, durability and resistance feats that allow him to dismiss just about anything Ultimatus brings to the table, and an unparalleled combat speed and training/skill in CqC that could outfight even the likes of Robin, leader of the teen titans.

Considering both of our amalgams have the ability to traverse the battlefield at an extreme pace and almost instantly close any gap between one another, this fight will surely come down to a contest in melee range and will end there as well. With the advantage in combat speed, reaction time, and with the fact that I'm fairly certain your character does not have what it takes to withstand potentially even one lightsaber strike, I don't see how you're going to last long once you come within range of Phantasm's superheated, flame-enhanced glowsticks.

That being said, I hope you don't try to run because then I'd have to ask you to-

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#18  Edited By Void_Reborn

@deathhero61@solidcenturion

I was planning to complete this post by the end of today but the site bugged out and I only managed to save a handful of what I wrote up in the past few days. Mostly just the beginning portion of it. I'll leave this here as a WIP for now. I should be able to get the rest of it finished again at best by tomorrow. Hopefully before the 2 week deadline. I apologise for any inconvenience.

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@solidcenturion It's less than a day away from hitting the first deadline. Any idea if DeathHero acknowledged the post yet?

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@solidcenturion It's less than a day away from hitting the first deadline. Any idea if DeathHero acknowledged the post yet?

I can make a post right now if you need me too. I just want to say his character is over the limits and Im going to point that out

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@deathhero61: I don't mind, take your time as much as you need. What is over the limits?

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@deathhero61: I don't mind, take your time as much as you need. What is over the limits?

I'll mention it in the post.

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#27  Edited By Void_Reborn

@deathhero61: I'm only realising it now after going over the original restrictions a second time but I'm going to guess it's the durability feat.

What should I do about that? @solidcenturion I agree with the fact that the feat is above the tourney cap. Does it count as DQ? I just want to know cause it slipped my mind while I made the post.

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#28  Edited By DeathHero61

@void_reborn:I'm only going to address a few things, and simply talk about what I believe is over the limits.

Minor Counters

Notice how Grievous stands nonchalantly as the force of the wind is coming his way while droids and the ground itself is being ripped apart and thrown blocks away. This indicates that he is capable of withstanding the blast on its own, not budging an inch but only has to dig his claws into the ground in order to close in on the Jedi, having to actively move against the oncoming flurry. Fortunately for him, his advance will not be so slow in this battle of amalgams because of what Scorpion brings to the table, which I will get into later.

To be fair, that was fairly telegraphed, so it was easy for him to brace himself, also if a wind like that forces him to grip onto the ground, while Ultimatus creates a tornado, he could just throw out weapons to land hits as he's getting slowed down by the tornado.

In his battle against a possessed Sub-Zero, whose powers are amplified due his inner darkness being exploited, Scorpion gets completely frozen solid and breaks out from it instantly.

In that same timeline he got his ass beat by Sub-Zero before, and in that exact same comicbook with that cropped scan you used he was frozen solid for a good number of seconds. And its not like he was constantly freezing him either, it was one blast and then whatever power was fueling him subsided.(mind you there's no indication he broke out through his heat based abilities)

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Robin's disk can do their job, freeze even someone like Scorpion for a couple seconds, even then Robin also has fire extinguishing disks specifically for people like Scorpion. Although its not like his freeze discs aren't weak or anything either, they frozen large spaceships

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And even froze characters above his weight class like Mammoth or even Plasmius, both characters notably stronger than Scorpion and arguably Grievous. If you have any other examples of him dealing with Sub-Zero's ice via his fire powers that would be much appreciated. And even if you have those kind of showings, Robin's freeze discs have managed to freeze an amped Slade for a good amount of time, who was granted fire powers from Trigon. And given his showings, this is impressive enough to suggest that freeze discs can play a role here like Sub-Zero's powers have played a role against Scorpion across all mortal kombat storylines.

Here, Grievous shrugs off being blown up by a rocket launcher at point blank, sustaining no damage whatsoever and also casually lands from an enormous fall.

Said rocket launcher was enough to still send him flying though which is all the explosives discs need to do when my amalgam is going to be twice the speed of sound in travel speed and faster in combat speed.

Considering you sent multiple of Sonic's feats under the category of Shadow's destructive force, I'm going to assume you hold them as near-equals and are under the assumption that both could pull off similar feats. Regardless, I'd like to see scans and/or statements that show them being within such close proximity of one another on scaling if that was your intent to begin with. Do remember that these are not Shadow's feats and even if parity is present, it would be false to say he performed those directly which I'm sure you wouldn't do. Just mentioning.

I literally don't need to. That's the thing. The IDW Comics are based off the video games, even directly referencing storylines that happened in the games.

Sonic Adventure 1, Sonic Adventure 2(where Shadow and Sonic are portrayed as equals and have all the same moves) Sonic Generations(another game where they went toe to toe) and Sonic Unleashed are all referenced in this scan.
Sonic Adventure 1, Sonic Adventure 2(where Shadow and Sonic are portrayed as equals and have all the same moves) Sonic Generations(another game where they went toe to toe) and Sonic Unleashed are all referenced in this scan.

The IDW comics are also written by Ian Flynn who wrote another separate series for Sonic The Hedgehog, known as Archie's Sonic The Hedgehog, where AGAIN he portrays them as equals. Several times in those comics, and here in his newest work portrays them as equals again. Even then the earlier scan I showed of Shadow smacking around IDW Neo Metal Sonic(Sonic's slight superior in strength) makes this a moot point regardless.

Let me ask you this, do you have any genuine reason or proof that suggests Shadow isn't an equal to Sonic? Mind you Sonic's destructive output is a product of his speed, not necessarily his strength and Shadow and Sonic as I showed you are equals in speed. So what's the problem here?

As for Shadow's energy projection, I'll hold off on scans regarding my amalgam's resistance to energy bolts, blasts and damage until you provide more information on Shadow's energy blasts. For now, I'll address his ability to conjure energy weapons such as spears and how Phantasm will be very much capable of dealing with it.

They were enough to depower Neo Metal Sonic while he was in a super powered form, and as I shown in earlier scans they were potent enough to knock away various superhuman zombots. This is impressive because they have previously shown to be fairly resistant to raw force. Sonic had to use a good bit of momentum simply to push one off a cliff or to send other ones flying. Otherwise he couldn't do any notable damage to them. Characters like Gemerl who are armed to the teeth could hardly scratch them or budge them with his missiles. In the scan I showed you Shadow is visibly sending them flying with just the energy blasts alone. They should reasonably pack as much of a punch as his actual attacks. So pretty much just additional ranged attacks to pad out his versatility.

Grievous withstood being at the epicentre of an explosion which engulfed and devastated an underground city and shook the planet itself

There is no way in hell this isn't over the limits. If he tanked this nobody in the tourney is hurting him. Not Spiderman, not Venom, heck not even Caranage.

Slugthrowers are similar to bullet-based weaponry in our modern world, having been dubbed 'obsolete' as blasters took to popularity in the SW universe due to more efficient ammunition with energy packs, it being easier to manage overheating compared to constant reloading and superior penetration power. Hypersonic also falls at a minimum of Mach 5, which fits exactly into the tournament restrictions.

Several jedi have dodged or deflected those blaster bolts, and you literally painted a picture of the difference between Grievous' speed and someone like Obi-Wan's who is inferior. I don't see how this isn't above the limits if he could basically blitz other jedi who can also react to these blaster bolts if I am not mistaken. You even show a scan of him dealing with two Jedi at once.

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How is Grievous' part of the build not over the limits?

I would love to continue discussing the other parts of your posts but your character seems blatantly over the limits.

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@solidcenturion: I pointed out what I believe is over the limits.

I agree with the durability feat being past tourney restrictions but I'm not sure what to do with it now because it's already been posted. Does this count as a DQ or should I remove it? The amalgam was already accepted and I posted that feat without having realised how much it goes over the limits as it slipped my mind. I would like to continue this debate but if it's a DQ I'll throw in the towel. I'll wait for Centurion's reply.

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@deathhero61: @void_reborn: Well seeing the feat in question now, It should be understood I’m not omnipotent and knowledgeable on everything, hence why I ok’d it and then had a time for anyone to call out each other’s build. That being said, yeah, that feat is definitely over the limits, however at the same time DH missed the Week Deadline to acknowledgeable Void’s post. I would say continue the debate, and just chalk that feat as an Outlier, imo

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@solidcenturion: if that's the case I'll drop. With feats like those i have no way of arguing my character could win and those are hardly inconsistent for his character from what I hear.

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@solidcenturion: if that's the case I'll drop. With feats like those i have no way of arguing my character could win and those are hardly inconsistent for his character from what I hear.

Well, I don't really have anything else with durability on that level or even close to it. The only thing consistent with his character would be the reaction/combat speed which you argued as also being above the limits. I disagree which is why I would've liked to continue but it's up to you whether you want to drop or not.

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@deathhero61: Alright then, thanks for the debate though. I'll post minor counters just for the sake of it.

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Void_Reborn

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#38  Edited By Void_Reborn

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To be fair, that was fairly telegraphed, so it was easy for him to brace himself,

Whether it was telegraphed or not doesn't matter. The winds picking up from a speedster like Shadow beginning to form a tornado through velocity alone would also be very noticeable. Grievous is neither stupid nor slow to react to such things and Phantasm will be able to analyse what is being used against him in a split second.

also if a wind like that forces him to grip onto the ground, while Ultimatus creates a tornado, he could just throw out weapons to land hits as he's getting slowed down by the tornado.

Again, like I said before, it is shown clear as day that the reason he had to brace himself was for the effort of moving towards the Jedi, having to actively move against the force of the wind. When it was being blown against him, he could simply stand there in order to withstand its force. Obviously his goal was to get to the Jedi in order to retrieve the Chancellor so he would have to brace himself regardless. In the case of this debate, there is no reason for Phantasm to even bother himself with the tornado at all when he can simply teleport away. With Grievous's reactions, there will be no time for your Amalgam to unleash anything on Phantasm before he is out of there before the tornado even begins to rise, rendering it a useless endeavor.

In that same timeline he got his ass beat by Sub-Zero before

They both get their asses beat by each other on a regular basis. Like Shadow and Sonic, the two are generally portrayed as equals with Scorpion's edge coming from his pseudo-immortality and other traits given to him as a revenant of hell; some which will not be mentioned in this debate. It's the typical pyromancer vs cryomancer rivalry; a classic. This means nothing.

, and in that exact same comicbook with that cropped scan you used he was frozen solid for a good number of seconds.

He was frozen long enough for Sub Zero to contemplate on what happened to him. At most that would be 3 seconds. Note, the temperature of Sub Zero's freeze attacks, especially one with a charge-up time such that he used against Scorpion and Takeda in that comic, are way beneath absolute zero temperatures.

"His deadly ability to freeze comes from the process of him absorbing the air around him and storing it before releasing it as a cold substance or simply lowering the temperature of the surrounding air to create ice constructs. He is naturally used to the cold temperatures of his turf and is able to resist other Cryomancers' freezing abilities as shown in the Mortal Kombat X comic series where Frost fails to freeze Sub-Zero's arms. His ability to freeze is strong enough to turn the body's water content, flesh and bone into brittle ice with just a single tap of his fingers. He has even surpassed his (late) brother Bi-Han's freezing ability, whose ice can reach temperatures up to -500° Fahrenheit which is way below absolute zero."

And its not like he was constantly freezing him either, it was one blast and then whatever power was fueling him subsided.

Sub Zero's mere presence causes the area around him to begin freezing. Him just being there allows the ice to remain at that temperature. Regardless whether or not he is constantly freezing Scorpion, he still broke out of temperatures far beneath absolute zero and lkely way below the temperature of Robin's freeze discs as well despite its ability to freeze Cyborg level combatants. The higher the temperature, the more easily Scorpion will break out of it. And that's if they actually hit him. Phantasm's reaction time and teleporting will make this nigh impossible.

(mind you there's no indication he broke out through his heat based abilities)

It is not shown in the comic but obviously that would aid him in why he broke out of it. One doesn't just break out of being frozen to such cold temperatures with raw strength alone. Scorpion's mastery of hellfire would assist in warming it up enough for him to break out of it due to his physicals.

Robin also has fire extinguishing disks specifically for people like Scorpion.

It isn't regular fire anyway, it's hellfire. In the netherrealm where it originates, the fire is eternally aflame throughout the realm and its layers. Scorpion manipulates this variant of fire and it's probably going to take a lot more than one or two fire extinguishing discs to douse his flame. Scorpion has already shown he is capable of igniting himself again even after frozen or his flame is doused

Although its not like his freeze discs aren't weak or anything either, they frozen large spaceships

And even froze characters above his weight class like Mammoth or even Plasmius, both characters notably stronger than Scorpion and arguably Grievous.

While it proves those freeze discs are impressive to have frozen such combatants along with the UFO, it doesn't quite compare to Sub Zero who's cryomancy is, I quote: "strong enough to turn the body's water content, flesh and bone into brittle ice with just a single tap of his fingers"

Along with the -500 degrees Fahrenheit statement I posted earlier, which makes it quantifiable, and the fact that Sub Zero can freeze entire towns, landscapes and environments by charging up energy for upwards of 2-5 seconds, Scorpion's feat of breaking out of it proves that my amalgam can most definitely withstand or break out of the freeze effect caused by Robin's discs. Again, if they actually hit Phantasm at all.

Robin's freeze discs have managed to freeze an amped Slade for a good amount of time, who was granted fire powers from Trigon. And given his showings, this is impressive enough to suggest that freeze discs can play a role here like Sub-Zero's powers have played a role against Scorpion across all mortal kombat storylines.

This is impressive because if I'm not mistaken, Slade was also reborn and is in a similar situation to Scorpion (pyromancy, rebirth as a pseudo-demon/revenant). Robin having kept him frozen for a decent amount of time falls in line with what Sub Zero is able to do with Scorpion. However, because of feats and statements regarding their separate freezing capabilities, Sub Zero's powers are still far colder on the spectrum compared to the extent of Robin's freeze discs, making Scorpion's feat of breaking out of it more impressive. I do acknowledge it could freeze Phantasm upon contact but he has already reacted to attacks and projectiles moving at many times the speed that these discs are thrown. Coupled with teleportation, dodging will be a breeze. If it does, in the very unlikely scenario as I've emphasised, actually hit my amalgam, he will still be capable of breaking out of it within a moment's notice.

Said rocket launcher was enough to still send him flying though

Grievous was never shown to have been sent flying. All the shot did was knock him off the wall or stop him from moving down along with the elevator for a moment, which resulted in him falling in front of them in the next gif or purposely dropping from that height just for the sake of catching up with them.

which is all the explosives discs need to do when my amalgam is going to be twice the speed of sound in travel speed and faster in combat speed.

The problem for your amalgam is a number of things.

For one, like I said before, this is a feat of Grievous withstanding superior explosive damage to the output of Robin's explosive discs, via no-selling the rocket launcher explosion. Robin's explosive discs will likely not be as effective. The missile launchers that clones are occasionally equipped with serve an anti-vehicle role and are capable of destroying entrances, outposts, thick walls, gunships and the sort. I doubt Robin's explosive discs could replicate this sort of damage. If he could no-sell this blast then he's tanking a hit from the explosive disc no problem and it likely isn't going to stop his movement like the blast I showed did; removing any opportunity to put your movement and combat speed to use. Robin's higher yield explosives would be useful but those would be much harder to put into play in such a heated battle between our amalgams.

Secondly, like I've been mentioning throughout this thread, everything points to your amalgam being unable to hit Phantasm with those discs because of his previous feats of dodging and casually blocking projectiles with superior velocity to even your own character's travel speed, who we both know creates sonic booms easily and considers Mach 1 travel speed as child's play. Along with teleportation that happens at a mere thought, dodging is incredibly easy. In fact, if Ultimatus does choose to waste his time tossing projectiles, Phantasm would have been right behind him as the first dodge, taking full advantage of surprise and superior CqC skill and combat speed. I don't think I have to remind you that one hit from the lightsaber is potentially fatal and you definitely aren't dodging 21 strikes per second from multiple directions at random along with teleportation spam all around you.

I literally don't need to. That's the thing. The IDW Comics are based off the video games, even directly referencing storylines that happened in the games. The IDW comics are also written by Ian Flynn who wrote another separate series for Sonic The Hedgehog, known as Archie's Sonic The Hedgehog, where AGAIN he portrays them as equals. Several times in those comics, and here in his newest work portrays them as equals again. Even then the earlier scan I showed of Shadow smacking around IDW Neo Metal Sonic(Sonic's slight superior in strength) makes this a moot point regardless.

That's good enough for me. I will consider them portrayed as equals.

Let me ask you this, do you have any genuine reason or proof that suggests Shadow isn't an equal to Sonic? Mind you Sonic's destructive output is a product of his speed, not necessarily his strength and Shadow and Sonic as I showed you are equals in speed. So what's the problem here?

I have no quarrel with the fact that they are equals nor did I ever say I have any reason or proof that suggests otherwise. I only sought something to confirm it like a statement or author's opinion which you have provided me with. That will be all.

They were enough to depower Neo Metal Sonic while he was in a super powered form, and as I shown in earlier scans they were potent enough to knock away various superhuman zombots. This is impressive because they have previously shown to be fairly resistant to raw force. Sonic had to use a good bit of momentum simply to push one off a cliff or to send other ones flying. Otherwise he couldn't do any notable damage to them. Characters like Gemerl who are armed to the teeth could hardly scratch them or budge them with his missiles. In the scan I showed you Shadow is visibly sending them flying with just the energy blasts alone. They should reasonably pack as much of a punch as his actual attacks. So pretty much just additional ranged attacks to pad out his versatility.

 The ceramic armorplast plates protecting limbs and torso and face can stop a burst from a starfighter's laser cannon. Those indestructible arms are ten times stronger than human, and move with the blurring speed of electronic reflexes. -Revenge Of The Sith
The ceramic armorplast plates protecting limbs and torso and face can stop a burst from a starfighter's laser cannon. Those indestructible arms are ten times stronger than human, and move with the blurring speed of electronic reflexes. -Revenge Of The Sith

Relatively powerful but not enough to be a genuine threat. At most, the energy projection would do minor damage but not enough to cripple. Here are some official statements and calcs:

Laser cannons were more powerful than similarly-sized blasters. Laser cannons were originally used by starships to blast debris, such as asteroids, out of their way. These cannons were both incredibly destructive and very accurate. A laser cannon was the standard weapon for use by most starships and other vehicles. The amount of destruction a laser cannon could do depended on its wattage. Cannons on the famous X-Wing ranged from 126 terrawatts to 500 terrawatts. It existed in a myriad of forms, from the huge versions used by starships, through medium-sized turret-mounted variants, to the much smaller personal cannons sometimes carried by infantry. Laser cannons were originally used by starships to blast debris, such as asteroids, out of their way. These cannons were both incredibly destructive and very accurate.

Here it is specified that laser cannons on starships are their most powerful variant, which Grievous's chassis is stated to be able to withstand. At a lowest of 126 terrawatts it most definitely is more powerful than what Shadow is capable of outputting. They are used to destroy debris, small asteroids, destroy light vehicles and do significant damage to medium and heavy armored vehicles. Mind you, Grievous cannot no-sell this type of power. Repeated shots will cause permanent damage. He is noted as capable of withstanding it, not shrugging it off. He won't die but it will be a problem. Although, along with his ability to tank glancing lightsaber blows as I showed in the opener, Shadow's energy projection doesn't quite reach the level where it's anything more than bothersome.

Grievous withstood being at the epicentre of an explosion which engulfed and devastated an underground city and shook the planet itself

There is no way in hell this isn't over the limits. If he tanked this nobody in the tourney is hurting him. Not Spiderman, not Venom, heck not even Caranage.

This feat has since been labelled an outlier and will no longer be used for the tournament. Note for voters.

Several jedi have dodged or deflected those blaster bolts, and you literally painted a picture of the difference between Grievous' speed and someone like Obi-Wan's who is inferior. I don't see how this isn't above the limits if he could basically blitz other jedi who can also react to these blaster bolts if I am not mistaken. You even show a scan of him dealing with two Jedi at once.

It isn't over the limits because there is no combat speed limit in the tournament. Lower tier Jedi are blitzed by Grievous because of his lightsaber combat mastery, emphasis on repeated, consecutive, offensive strikes to overwhelm the opponent and his sheer combat speed of 12 to 21 strikes per second and potentially more if he pushes his cybernetic enhancements to the limits. This has nothing to do with Jedi being able to react to blaster bolts at around Mach 5 but are unable to react to his speed. They most certainly can because they are shown to block some of his attacks before being cut down. They simply cannot cope and falter after a few seconds or minutes depending on how skilled and powerful in the force they are.

Conclusion

I would love to continue discussing the other parts of your posts but your character seems blatantly over the limits.

The only thing over the limits about Phantasm has been disregarded and what you considered over the limits about his speed debunked. Considering there is nothing left to your post as you felt no need to go over the rest of it, I will, for a second time, go over my amalgam's advantages over Ultimatus and why I'm confident he won't be able to deal with it.

  • You have still yet to prove my amalgam is not durable enough to handle the damage and utility that comes from Shadow's destructive power and Robin's arsenal. By contrast, I have posted counters, feats and statements that confirm Phantasm will be able to take nearly anything your amalgam can dish out.
  • There is nothing that suggests Ultimatus has ever had to face a character like Phantasm with arguably the fastest combat speed of the tournament and potential to one shot with every hit.
  • There is nothing suggesting Ultimatus will be able to avoid being sliced to pieces when CqC is forced because of the sheer speed and teleportation of both our combatants.
  • From what I can tell so far, the only damage Ultimatus is capable of inflicting that would be effective would be his physical strikes thanks to Shadow's scaling. Unfortunately this will never come into play because of Phantasm's lightsabers. If your amalgam is unable to compete with my combat speed, combat analysis and combat skill, any melee attack you perform will be in the midst of 3-4 lightsaber slashes that could dismember you or act as a fatal blow. At the end of it all, trying to fight back against my Amalgam in close quarters is just as dangerous as standing there like a statue and allowing him to hit Ultimatus. All the while Phantasm is capable of teleporting around your character and will outperform your amalgam's teleportation due to his reaction and familiarity with using it mid-combat.

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Void_Reborn

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#39  Edited By Void_Reborn

@solidcenturion Although DeathHero has forfeited the match, could we open this up for votes?

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