Altair vs Shirou Emiya

Altair

VS

Shirou Emiya ( Composite Fate, Unlimited Blade Works & Heaven's Feel)

In character

Winner by KO, Incapacitation or Death

Random encounter

Standard gear and abilities

Fight takes place at an unpopulated city setting at night

Who'd win? For what reasons?

Callouts:

Penny for your thoughts on this battle? Since this Saber is pretty new as of the moment in CV, here are her fights in her series for anyone interested in this battle

@life_without_progress: I was ready to come out with every reason why Artoria would stomp Shirou... I feel robbed

@giliad_: blame Ei Aoki

@life_without_progress: honestly, I was preparing to post the video of that epic CGI dragon. And to make the "ends in sex" because it actually could

I feel so let down

Shirou. Heaven's Feel Shirou with Rin's mana reserves is borderline broken.

I clicked on this thread wanting to say ends in sex.

@life_without_progress: Btw, when the series is finished, are you gonna make respect threads for the characters? I wanna use them, but I can't be bothered making GIFs for everything they do.

@just_banter: Nope, I don't have the attention span to do so.

@life_without_progress: Damn it. They'd be dope for high street debates as well. I'll pay you in memes if you do it.

@just_banter: I don't think Rui Kanoya is gonna be fitting for just high street debates only...

And besides some of these fellows look like they are above Spider-Man level already.

@life_without_progress: Mainly talking about discount Gilgamesh, discount Caster, discount Stand User, discount Madoka, and... Selesia. Mainly 'Saber' though. Btw, was her name confirmed to be called Saber when the MC had that intense research session at the end of this episode? If it was there I think I might have missed the subtitles for it lmao

@just_banter: It was confirmed to be Saber or Altair apparently from what I've seen from the ending and the different websites I go to.

Considering the fact that Saber or Altair the Discount Gilgamesh has that "nullify reality" attack with that violin gun-sword thing, I feel like she's going to be ridiculously hax to be a street leveler in the next 17 episodes of the series.

@life_without_progress: Ah, yeah I remember seeing the name "Altair," don't remember "Saber" though. Guess it depends on translation, I don't speak Japanese so I don't know if those two words are similar.

@life_without_progress: Yeah, she's called Altair instead of Saber. Some bloke translated the entire info dump.

Altair is a different level of power. Not even Gilgamesh would handle with her

@lunarheretic:

Which version of Gilgamesh?

Depends on knowledge and whether Shirou starts with Archer's arm unsealed.

@highaccuser: except she can just use her holopsicon and reduce Shirou to his basic start of history

@swagpack almost any version. She can just erase his Gate of Babylon and deflect his EA

@lunarheretic:
There is a problem. She is too slow for every version of Gilgamesh and she never deflected anything even remotely close to Ea's Enuma Elish.
If BB and the Moon Cell couldn't do anything to CCC Gilgamesh, then Altair isn't doing anything either.

@swagpack: she's the literal definition of wank. She was literally toying against Sho, Yuuya and Hikayu at the same time + both Yuuya and Sho have Personas. Her swords act like a passive shield, since you see her tanking shit would needing to see it. She survived completely existence destruction twice against her perfect copy Sirius.

EA needs charge time, she will do the same she did against Aliceteria. She can just read his story and reduce him to a normal human. She's basically omnipotent.

@lunarheretic:
Yes, but they aren't impressive at all. They aren't incredibly strong or fast. She survived destruction of her existence, but on her own level. BB, who operates on a much higher dimensional level, couldn't do anything against Gilgamesh.

Ea, contrary to what people think, doesn't need a charge time. He can fire it in a split second, just as he did when he matched and overpowered Excalibur. Power Nullification, another thing that BB has, is another thing that is useless against Gilgamesh.

"Omnipotence" is reserved for characters such as Azathoth. She hasn't shown omnipotence at all.

@swagpack: you know Gilgamesh is a massive jobber. He's not EA people at the first moments of a fight

@lunarheretic:
He is serious in CCC. Quite serious in fact, willing to do anything for victory. He perfectly assessed every situation, his weaknesses and the weaknesses of his enemies.

@swagpack: pretty sure Altair will be fully awared of that since she knows almost every story. In this last episode she basically created worlds and universes at will

Only if she's fast enough to compete.

@lunarheretic:
Gilgamesh knows possibilities of his and parallel worlds. Capable of seeing through any illusion and lie and capable of knowing everything about his opponent. He will immediately know what to do to defeat her, in combination with his superior speed, he will achieve it.

BB reconstructed higher-dimensional space of the Far Side. She was still shitting herself when Gil came. She could create infinite-sized areas with the power of the Moon Cell. Still below Gilgamesh.

Why is Gil being discussed when it's agreed he beats her easily?

On Topic unless Shirou gets Feats from Kaleid he loses here.

@chaos239:
Some people still question it.

I'm not even going to ask why people think any Shirou or Gilgamesh even has a chance of winning against Altair when she has a passive causality manipulation armor that reflects all damage on top of physical damages immunity on top of a regen that's strong enough to regenerate from being erased from existence.

@peter16373:
Because Gilgamesh has a ton of hax resistances that not even the Moon Cell can bypass.

If Shirou starts with Archer's arm unsealed he could outspeed and kill her pretty quickly although he could die if he doesn't kill her as fast as he can. Anyone's guess how long he could survive using Archer's arm with UBW feats. If Archer's arm is sealed he would still have to kill her before she can activate Holopsicon Movements, but at least he won't wear out and die early on. Although we don't know how the Fifteenth Movement would work against ranged attacks.

@swagpack:

Well than explain how Gilgamesh can get through these abilities of Altair that I'm gonna post.

Altair’s Known Abilities and Powers:

Casual 4-D Universe lvl (Can casually create and destroy an entire universe.)

Ability to get more abilities (Has an nigh-infinite amount of abilities at her disposal due to almost having an infinite number of Creators.)

Regeneration (Can regenerate after getting her existence (Mind, body, soul, and consciousness) completely erased from the universe by Sirius.)

Immortality (But most likely not) (Her existence is sustained by the infinite number of creators who has made fan works of her. As long as even the tiniest bit of information about her still exists she cannot disappear.)

Superhuman Strength (Casually caught Vogelchevalier’s sword with 2 fingers then tossed it.)

Reality Warping (Holopsicon can freely enter and leave Story worlds while pulling other characters in and out of the stories as well as other offensive reality warping stuff.)

Plot Manipulation (Holopsicon the Thirteenth Movement of Cosmos, Outline Origin (Controls the plot can remove all the power ups a character has received during their series and effectively resetting them back to their Beginning of Series self. Can also insert herself into a story and change it.) and (Holopsicon the Third Movement of Cosmos, Representation Exposition (Can change anything into something else including living creatures. Turned Sword Rebellion into a flower as well as living humans in her video.)

Conceptual Manipulation (Can control concepts so that only conceptual attacks or attacks boosted by conceptual manipulation can damage her.)

Physical Damage Immunity (Via Conceptual Manipulation cannot take damage from physical attacks or anything that aren't boosted by conceptual manipulation or existence erasure based.)

Passive Causality Manipulation (Holopsicon the Fourteenth Movement of Cosmos, The Vicissitude of Fortune (Reverses cause and effect by reflecting the damage she was supposed to take from getting hit by something back at her enemy.)

Fate Manipulation (Holopsicon the Twenty-Third Movement of Cosmos, Fate Reconstruction (She can alter and control fate itself.)

Summoning (Can summon swords out of thin air.)

Telekinesis (Telekinetically control her summoned swords.)

Flight (Can fly.)

Clairvoyance (Viewed multiple areas of the stadium from afar.)

Teleportation (Can teleport out of the Selesia’s nigh-undodgeable Ionion Aphoria conceptual attack which traps its target within an infinite space.)

Power Mimicry (Holopsicon the Twentieth Movement of Cosmos, Factor Mimic (Can make perfect copies of her target which is shown to be just as powerful as the original also hasn't shown a limit on how many she can copy at once. Has shown to make at least 18 copies at once in her video.)

Precognition (Can predict what happens in the future learned of Aliceteria’s betrayal as well as all of Meteora’s plans.)

Power Nullification (Nullified Blitz’s gravity bullet.)

Existence Erasure (Holopsicon the Ninth Movement of Cosmos, Fate Restoration (Erased Vogelchevalier, Hangaku and Bayard from existence, was stated by Yuya to also be able to do it to living creatures like himself and the other Creations.)

Paralysis (Sirius paralyzed Altair before using Existence Change.)

Possession (Holopsicon the Sixty-Sixth Movement of Cosmos, Existence Change (Takes over her enemies entire existence while maintaining all her own abilities.)

Creation (Her Holopsicon was able to create an entire universe for Setsuna.)

@peter16373:
1. BB can manipulate 5D space and still got trashed by Gilgamesh.
2. Gilgamesh has nigh-infinite amount of conceptual weapons.
3. Has anti-regeneration conceptual weapons and is capable of destroying a portion of the Far Side which was a reconstructed 5D area.
4. Has anti-immortality conceptual weapons.
5. Superhuman Strength isn't really crucial here.
6. Can resist Reality Warping of both BB and the Moon Cell who can create infinite areas through Reality warping.
7. Plot Manipulation is just limited Reality warping.
8. Can resist Conceptual manipulation of BB.
9. Everything he uses has some kind of conceptual effect.
10. Can resist Causality manipulation of BB.
11. Can resist Fate manipulation of BB, who can choose among infinite possibilities and impose the desired future into reality.
12. Can summon conceptual weapons.
13. Telekinesis is useless.
14. Can fly as well.
15. Has Clairvoyance as well, capable of knowing everything about his opponent, can see possibilities of his and parallel universes.
16. Teleportation is useless since the speed gap is too great for it to be useful for her.
17. Can resist Power mimicry of BB.
18. Has precognition tied to his Clairvoyance.
19. Has no feats of nullifying something on the level of Enuma Elish.
20. Cannot be erased by the Moon Cell, who can manipulate 8D constructs.

All of that is even more useless due to huge speed gap.

May aswell expand on what I said earlier.

if Shirou immedialty Traces Gae Bong, rushes in and Heart Stabs he can win, or if he rushes in and NLBWs her.

@swagpack:

I can already see the wank here. There is no character in Fate that is 5-D. The only character thats above 5-D in Fate is Akasha who is at minimum 7-D.

BB and Gilgamesh are at best 4-D universal just like Altair. Any higher is just straight up wanking.

That's NLF you can't just say Gilgamesh has nigh-infinite conceptual weapons. And even if he does none of hem are as powerful as Ea which still isn't enough to kill Altair.

Anti-Regeneration weapon only works on mid tier regeneration such as being turned to dust. They can't negate Existence erasure regeneration. Only a few people in fiction can negate that.

This isn't normal immortality. This is a form of Reliant Immortality which means she cant die unless everything about her disappears from the face of the universe and possibly multiverse.

Yeah Superhuman Strength isn't important.

However BB is not that powerful. Seriously what's with the Fate wank on this site.

This is a special form of plot manipulation that negates all the power ups a character has received throughout their story (not series but story).

Passive Self Causality Manipulation. Seriously did you even read the descriptions that I wrote. She can reflect any damage that a character causes upon her

Yes that's true Fate Manipulation wouldn't work on Gilgamesh. That is before Altair uses Outline Origin and removes his power up.

They can both summon weapons so it's irrelevant.

I know I'm just listing her known abilities.

I'm well aware that Gilgamesh also has Clairvoyance.

Depends if Gilgamesh is cocky enough to allow her to attack first.

BB's power mimicry is by absorbing her targets data. Altair's is literally making a copy of her target that is just as powerful as the original. And she was shown to be able to make at least 18 copies.

It wasn't combat applicable for Altair anyway.

I'm well aware of that.

Yes I know Gilgamesh is Super hax resistant. Also where the heck did you get 8-D from. Not even the creator of the Nasuverse Akasha has been confirmed 8-D yet. But seriously though Altair can just negate his power up. It's one of her most powerful ability.

Speed gap means nothing if Gilgamesh can't kill her before she activates Outline Origin and negate all his power ups. And returns him to his normal self.

You also didn't answer to what Gilgamesh can do against her paralysis and her existence possession. Now that I think about it. Seriously I heard this site has lots of wankers but I didn't think it would be this bad. Might as well quit this site now.

He wouldn't even need Gae Bolg. Just a random Noble Phantasm projection would do. Wouldn't even have to get close either. Fifteenth Movement is really the only problem.

@peter16373:
"Think of archival space as existing in the higher dimension. From a higher dimension, 3D is like a flat fabric. Let's see... say the 3D world is a world written in a book and jumping in it resulted in finding yourself outside of the book, okay? It becomes so that you are able to see from above your own past, present, future, in the form of records. This is the perspective of a higher dimension. Do you see? At that point, all time within the book becomes equal. After all, you can view any point in time you like whenever you want. There's no past or future. It's the same as that. This place is imaginary number space, a higher-dimensional informational space formed by light. As a rule, the Far Side follows not the laws of the observer space, but the archival space." (...) "That very Moon Cell is what BB became. She gained the perspective of a higher dimension. That's why...BB can make use of the past and the future at the same time."

Here it's explained how the Far Side functions. The one who becomes the existence of the Far Side (in this case BB) can see time (4D) like reading a book. Meaning that being transcends 4D and thus it's 5D.

Here BB talks about the Moon Cell's core, which is protected by 8D wall: "However...the Moon Cell, you might say is impudent, or that its defenses are flawless. Even though I managed to pass through the imaginary number at the speed of light, a huge wall now stands before our devilish heroine BB-chan! It's a perfectly spherical spirit particle defense wall that cuts through eight dimensions."

And even before we have 6D Avalon. So yeah, there are higher dimensions in Fate. And it's not wanking because I have quotes.

You can't say that she has nigh-infinite amount of abilities. Their mechanics works really similar.
You can negate whatever you want when a being is on a lower level than you.
She doesn't have that immortality. It was never confirmed.
BB is that powerful, I have the quotes.
There doesn't exist a special kind of Plot manipulation.
BB has passive Causality manipulation as well, which Gilgamesh resisted.
Altair lacks feats of negating something like Enuma Elish, someone's resistances etc.
She summons normal weapons, he summons conceptual weapons.
Extra CCC Gilgamesh is not cocky and he goes all out immediately.
BB has better feats.
8D is from the Moon Cell.
Paralysis is not really useful when you have a guy resisting reality warping like it's nothing. Possession, I don't know how exactly would that work. Gilgamesh won't allow you to possess him or taint him in any way.

@swagpack:

I can now see why people told me not to go on this site. I thought they were just joking when they said some here actually think Fate is that powerful. I thought that nothing can be wanked more than Dragon Ball and Naruto but I was wrong. First off it's not confirmed whether or not those eight dimensions mean literal higher dimensions or something else entirely. Which is why BB is at most just a high end 4-D universal being.

@peter16373:

I don't see why it wouldn't be confirmed. Higher dimensions were present in Fate even in its first work, Stay Night. Nasu perfectly explained how higher dimensions work with explaining Far Side mechanics.

If those people can't debunk anything then they are just talking crap.

I’m well aware this is six years old I just don’t care

I saw a big thing about speed and realized most people don’t know Altairs full speed

Altair was capable of sending swords fast enough to catch jets (sonic-hyper sonic)

Altair was capable of blocking Rui’s particle accelerator (relavistic-realavistic +)

Altair was able to get out of selesia’s infinite space (infinite speed)

Altair was capable of moving in a void (inaccessible)

Altair was being boosted by acceptance and transcended everything which would include the hounds of tindalos (bare minimum immeasurable likely irrelevant)

Oh and Altair can transcend dimensions so gil being bare minimum 5-8D is irrelevant here

Altair curbs.

Also, I'm pretty sure making PSN Shirou composite does more bad than good due to the Archer Arm and Fate Route Shirou's mentality. Should've just used Oath Under Snow Shirou.