Altair vs Connor

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MonsterStomp

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DarthAznable

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MonsterStomp

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@darthaznable: Depending on the stipulations, more experience, better armour, better equipment etc.

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DarthAznable

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@darthaznable: Depending on the stipulations, more experience, better armour, better equipment etc.

Yeah but Connor has the physicals(speed, agility, strength )and combat prowess. Also I'd say he's arguably stealthier. Given environment, equipment, etc it could go either way.

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MonsterStomp

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#55  Edited By MonsterStomp

@darthaznable: Yeah I think their encounter would be a lot closer than Altair vs. Connor.

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MisterGuyMan

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@monsterstomp:

Fighting armed Assassins trained since birth is a better H2H feat than fighting Colonials. Altair's skills with the original Hidden Blade gives Altair skills that are directly translated in a H2H fight. Moreover all his targets, as far as I recall, are with the hidden blade. Robert De Sable, for example, was killed with the hidden blade so Altair fought a fully armed and armored Templar with no way to parry. I can check later but I'm fairly sure he killed Moloch with the hidden blade too.

You're continuing the same song and dance. All you've done in the past two replies is try to ignore valid feats for Altair without arguing for Connor. What's the best feats for Connor then?

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Mike_Fowler

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@misterguyman: nah with moloch he strangled him with his own weapon

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MisterGuyMan

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@dbzk1999:

In that case, that's a pretty impressive strength feat. That's even better.

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MisterGuyMan

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@dbzk1999:

In that case, that's a pretty impressive strength feat. That's even better.

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MonsterStomp

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@misterguyman:

Altair disarmed the assassins of questionable rank who also had questionable morals. Nothing more, nothing less. Connor fought his father while severely injured. Connor competed in Boston Brawler fight clubs. That is far more impressive than anything Altair has done in the hand-to-hand department at least. Altair's skills with the hidden blade do not translate in a H2H fight. He has no actual feats of using his blade in open conflict. Altair used the hidden blade on Robert De Sable after he was down. Altair killed Moloch by strangling him.

No one even put up a valid argument for Altair to even counter, dude.

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Mike_Fowler

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Connor has the strength and speed while Altair has the agility and skill

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MisterGuyMan

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#62  Edited By MisterGuyMan

@monsterstomp:

Thanks for illustrating my point. When we're talking about Altair's opponents, you question their rank and training. When we're talking about Connor's opponents you take everything at face value. What exactly is your evidence either way? Nothing. Yet you have no problem nitpicking at Altair.

Altair dodges attacks nonstop as he fights through armies. Never once is he actually tagged. Yet under your logic, the moment he doesn't have a weapon, he suddenly loses all his abilities to evade attacks. That makes no sense.

Finally the group of Assassins Altair takes, on one instance single handedly, would easily beat the unarmed Colonials in a fight. Once again you use a double standard and you think Altair beating armed swordsmen with his hands don't count for anything but beating unarmed fighters, a lesser feat, count.

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Mee09

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DarthAznable

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@dbzk1999 said:

Connor has the strength and speed while Altair has the agility and skill

Connor as strength, speed, agility, and either equal or greater skill. The later is arguable.

@misterguyman It doesn't change that fact that Connor is physically superior, has crossed battlefields riddled with gunfire without getting hit, dashed through a city falling apart without getting hit, snuck onto an enemy ship without being detected and killed the Templar on it. He has down these feats multiple times.

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MisterGuyMan

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@darthaznable:

Altair choked Molach who creates man sized craters with his morningstar. So I'm not doubting Connor's strength but Altair isn't exactly weak.

Connor has a shard of Eden that deflects bullets. If we're comparing combat feats, there is no comparison. To kill Robert de Sable, Altair fought through two alerted armies, including archers on towers only to fight Robert and his personal guard by himself. You cannot continue the memory without killing everyone. He also fought through another army to assassinate Basilisk. Even as a young assassin, he saved the Order in the battle of Masyuf after the battle was basically lost. The kicker is that Altair's done all that and more without getting tagged.

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Mike_Fowler

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@misterguyman: and don't forget he also saved civilians during that attack

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MonsterStomp

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@monsterstomp:

Thanks for illustrating my point. When we're talking about Altair's opponents, you question their rank and training. When we're talking about Connor's opponents you take everything at face value. What exactly is your evidence either way? Nothing. Yet you have no problem nitpicking at Altair.

Altair dodges attacks nonstop as he fights through armies. Never once is he actually tagged. Yet under your logic, the moment he doesn't have a weapon, he suddenly loses all his abilities to evade attacks. That makes no sense.

Finally the group of Assassins Altair takes, on one instance single handedly, would easily beat the unarmed Colonials in a fight. Once again you use a double standard and you think Altair beating armed swordsmen with his hands don't count for anything but beating unarmed fighters, a lesser feat, count.

- I shouldn't have questioned their ranks. Altair was the only Master Assassin of his order, so there was no need. They were clearly under his rank and skill level. Just basic fodder with nothing to actually show for. I questioned their morals though. They obviously had mixed feelings when Abbas and Altair were going at it. I digress, this is off topic. Disarming simply has no use in a hand-to-hand fight. What is Altair going to disarm there? Nothing. Its just acknowledgement of his skill. Connor knows how to disarm people too. Connor knows how to knock people out with a sleeper hold. Connor utilizes kicks to break defence.

- You're looking at it as if Altair can apply the same skills with a hidden blade to his hand-to-hand skills. Yet his training with a hidden blade would largely differ from that of unarmed training. His hidden blade was primarily used for delivering a killing blow. Even if we use your logic, we still have no on-panel showings of Altair using his hidden blade in open conflict. Even if we do assume Altair has done so, who has Altair fought with notable hand-to-hand skill? No one by my recollection. Based on that analogy alone, Connor should damn near stomp Altair in hand-to-hand.

- I've already debunked the disarming skill. When Altair actually throws a right hook and knocks someone out, get back to me.

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MisterGuyMan

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@monsterstomp:

1. Trained Assassins with swords would make mincemeat of unarmed Colonial brawlers. Altair, unarmed, beat Assassins that would make Connor's brawlers into carrion. If Assassins are fodder, then Connor's feat is over weaker opposition is less than useless. What's the best Connor's done without getting damaged unarmed? Altair's also disarming trained Assassins as a 70 year old.

2. We know that Altair killed several targets using the hidden blade. He killed Robert de Sable, surrounded by other Templar, with the hidden blade without getting damaged. The entire point is that Altair is immensely skilled in avoiding damage. You can't sidestep that issue. Altair gets damaged ONE time and pulls off better feats throughout a much longer career. Taking away his weapon doesn't change his evasion abilities at all.

3. When Connor can go through armies without getting hit, let me know. That sentence by the illustrates your penchant to simplify discussions into a single parameter that favors you. That also further illustrates how you like to apply double standards.

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MonsterStomp

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#70  Edited By MonsterStomp

@misterguyman:

- You're bouncing around making moot comparisons here, I think. You're comparing armed assassins to unarmed Redcoat/Patriot brawlers. Then flexing the fact that Altair merely disarmed fodder, which Connor has also done. What is the deal here? Also, Altair in his 80s disarmed poorly trained fodder. Assassins that have forgotten their training under Abbas' rule and they backed off. You still fail to prove that this skill set has any purpose here.

- Yes, Altair killed several targets using his blade, but none of those instances can be proven in open conflict with said weapon. I'm not denying that Altair couldn't avoid damage, however, training with a hidden blade does differ from hand-to-hand training. You can't sidestep that issue.

- Aggressive aren't you? Quit dodging. Altair gets stomped in hand-to-hand. I've made my case there. Now we could argue round 2 if you want? But I'm pretty sure you'd ride that 'soloing army' train for countless pages.

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Mike_Fowler

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#71  Edited By Mike_Fowler

@monsterstomp: just wanted to say altair wasn't the only master assassin don't know where you got that from

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Penderor

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@immortal777: Wrong. And dont count Desmond please. He has advantage over them all.

Altair > Ezio > Connor > Edward > Aveline

Woman will not beat them really just use the brain.

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Aeon-Rising

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Altair (So far) is the greatest assassin in the series. He is the only one who suffers from desynchronization from getting hit. Since we know desynchronization occurs when something happens that is out of place it means Altair never received so much as a scratch (Not in a cutscene). Compile this with the fact he faced down entire armies camps single handed and either invented or perfected many of the techniques Enzio later used (and even as a old man did not master as good) you get a extremely deadly combatant and master assassin.

That said I honestly believe Connor is the better 1 v 1 fighter. Altair (Judging by the desynch) would complete missions in absolute stealth and behave very much like the ultimate assassin. Connor on the other hand is far more effective in melee combat, has duel wielding capability and arguably has superior strength and endurance. Altair/Enzio were the better assassins and Connor/Edward were straight up killers who clearly did not rely on stealth quite as much due to the action oriented nature of their games.

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AtPhantom

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#74  Edited By AtPhantom

@monsterstomp said:

- Yes, Altair killed several targets using his blade, but none of those instances can be proven in open conflict with said weapon. I'm not denying that Altair couldn't avoid damage, however, training with a hidden blade does differ from hand-to-hand training. You can't sidestep that issue.

Uh, Robert De Sable was in open conflict. They even had the damn king of England as the arbiter. Al Mualim was in open fight as well. Granted he was, like, eighty, but then he had Apple of Eden wizardry on his side.

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MisterGuyMan

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@monsterstomp:

1. So armed Assassins are fodder but unarmed Colonials are not fodder? You question the skill or trained assassins but pretend that beating unarmed colonials is a great feat. You also once again claim the assassins forgot their trainin in Abbas' regime. Where's your proof? Why haven't you questioned the skills of Connor's colonials? Once again you nitpick Altair feats but accept Connor's as golden. Assassins with swords would wreck unarmed Colonials and Altair has unarmed feats against the Assassins.

2. Robert was in open combat. His fight with Maria was in open combat and he knocked her down without the hidden blade. Moreover you're still ignoring the fact that Altair never gets hit. Weapon or no weapon, he has the skill to evade attacks from swords and arrows of two armies.

3. It's not aggression. I merely point out your double standards. I'm doing the saming thing you are and you get defensive. When we discuss Altair his opponents are supposedly fodder even though they're trained assassins. When we discuss Connor you never refer to his opponents as fodder even though the assassins were trained since birth. When it's Connor you have no issue making 'Call me when Altair did this one thing that Connor does.' When I mirror your statement you say I'm being aggressive. That's an obvious double standard.

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MonsterStomp

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@dbzk1999 said:

@monsterstomp: just wanted to say altair wasn't the only master assassin don't know where you got that from

He was the only notable Master Assassin in his Order. I would only suspect Malik as being close to that rank.

@monsterstomp said:

Uh, Robert De Sable was in open conflict. They even had the damn king of England as the arbiter. Al Mualim was in open fight as well. Granted he was, like, eighty, but then he had Apple of Eden wizardry on his side.

I know they were open conflict, though it can't be fully proven of which weapon he was wielding.

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deactivated-62433ff119047

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For the first round, I'm definitely betting on the man with better physicals meaning superior strength, speed & reaction speed.

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Altair, as stated, has more experience, is more agile and arguably more skilled. Although Conner has nothing to be scared about as he can nearly just-as-easily hold his own in the skill department.

As for round two, it depends on who flips their gun out first.. lol. Without guns, based on what people stated on this thread, I root for Altair.

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MonsterStomp

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@misterguyman:

- I never said that. I don't even know where you got the idea that I said that. When have I even flexed the idea that Connor beating unarmed soldiers was impressive? I don't think I even brought that feat up. The only feats I have brought up in the hand-to-hand department was Haytham and the Boston Brawlers.

I did claim that the assassins under Abbas' reign were less trained. When Altair returned to Masyaf back in his 60s he commented on their lousiness.

Once again you're wanking the idea that disarming a few assassins add anything to a hand-to-hand fight. Cool, Altair disarmed a few assassins. Now apply that to this situation... oh wait, you can't because there's nothing to disarm.

- You still can't prove that Altair actually fought Robert or anyone in open conflict WITH the hidden blade. I'm not ignoring that fact that Altair never gets hit. No one he has fought is as skilled as Connor. So I question whether the "Altair never gets hit" quote even has validity here. Altair is not more skilled than Connor in hand-to-hand. Its simple really.

- Its a debate, dude. I'm allowed to call the assassins fodder, because they ARE. Malik is a little above because he actually has feats. Clearly fodder assassins have more training background than fodder Redcoats/Patriots. Therefore fodder assassins > fodder soldiers. Its pretty simple.

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Penderor

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ghostrider2

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Altair.

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MisterGuyMan

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#81  Edited By MisterGuyMan

@monsterstomp:

1. My point is that you continually nitpick Altair's feats saying his enemies are untrained with no proof but don't do the same thing for Connor's brawlers. When I talk about unarmed Colonials I refer to the Brawlers. Find the quote from Altair where he says the training specifically has slipped. It doesn't exist. He said the Order under Abbas has suffered and the only specifics he mentioned was that he failed to reinforce Cyprus and robbed Masyuf of all joy. You're making the assumptions that the Assassins turned bad with no evidence.

Unarmed, Altair is able to evade the blows of trained swordsmen without getting damaged at all. That's how the feat applies. The swordmen are also more dangerous than the unarmed Colonials of Connor.

2. Altair proveably used the hidden blade against Robert from the ensuing FMV. You actually see him stab Robert. No matter what weapon you equip Altair kills Robert with the hidden blade.

Altair's evasion abilities don't go away without his weapon and his evasion is such that it dwarves any of Connor's advantages.

3. Which proves my point. You nitpick Altair's feats against trained assassins as fodder but don't say a word againt Connor's even less trained Colonial opponents. It's always a stacked deck with you.

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MonsterStomp

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#82  Edited By MonsterStomp

@misterguyman:

- Look at this place. Masyaf is a shadow of its former self. That quote suggests that the place was far more inactive than it use to be. Look at all the assassins who've stopped their training. In comparison to Assassin's Creed when they were training every day, they clearly had forgotten their training. Its logic, bro. That's your proof. Pretty hard to deny. Boston Brawlers are probably fodder, however it takes far more effort to beat them down than a standard city guard. Connor has to utilize his kicks, throws and more to win. You're also forgetting that he beat Haytham pretty much wasted from a cannonball ricochet. Those are far more impressive than anything Altair has done.

That isn't how the feat applies. That's how the feat was achieved, but not how it applies to this situation. Connor has also disarmed elite fodder as part of the Boston Brawler challenges. Disarm and kill 10 Jägers with their own weapon. Now what? Doesn't change anything. Connor can't use that skill set on an unarmed opponent. 10 Jägers would massacre 10 unarmed Colonials, so what?

- So? Altair always used his hidden blade to deliver the killing blow. I saw a guy on YouTube fighting him with a sword and when Robert was downed, Altair automatically kills him with the hidden blade. I'm not even convinced you can insta-kill Robert. He's a boss. The game would be pretty lame if you could one shot him like any other elite fodder Knight.

I'm not even saying that. But clearly training with a hidden blade is far different than unarmed training. Even Altair's brawler style hand-to-hand fighting has him evading damage by blocking.

- I'm defending Connor, why would I downgrade my champion? I don't bring them up, but I don't overrate them. I simply withhold that information and defend it when someone else brings it up. If it needs defending that is. Colonials are fodder, some more elite than others such as Jägers. There, I said it. Why do you keep fixating on that when it doesn't even change a thing?

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deactivated-62433ff119047

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@penderor: A great showcase of Altair's feats indeed, thanks.

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Mike_Fowler

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@monsterstomp: just to let you know you can one shot ANYBODY with the hidden blade even al mualim

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MonsterStomp

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MonsterStomp

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#86  Edited By MonsterStomp

@penderor: A great showcase of Altair's feats indeed, thanks.

That doesn't showcase Altair's feats, its a skin you can use in AC3.

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MisterGuyMan

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#87  Edited By MisterGuyMan

@monsterstomp:

1. That's not evidence. Masyuf was a shadow of its former self because, as Altair explains, Abbas robbed the place of all joy. The only other specific example mentioned is how Abbas failed to send reinforcements to Cyprus. Anything else is just your assumption. Logically Abbas' priority that day was to ensure Altair didn't leave with the Apple rather than making sure the trainees went about their normal training regimen. After all, once Altair escapes, the empty city is then filled with Assassins.

Nevermind how you're making a faulty generalization. You're literally assuming that what you see over a few moments in the courtyard accurately represents decades. If the activity in the courtyard is your only evidence, then seeing the packed courtyard at night in "The Mentor's Return" not only disproves you, it must also mean the Assassins are more trained than ever! We also actually see the Assassins in action as they assist Altair retake Masyuf in that memory and they look plenty competent. Your theory just doesn't fit.

Assassins are trained from birth in melee. Jagers are first and foremost trained in guns. In a melee fight, the Assassins would have the advantage. Altair also does his feats unscathed something Connor can't claim.

2. Altair canonically kills Robert with the Hidden Blade. No matter what you, the player, decide to wield in gameplay, the hidden blade was the actual weapon used by Altair.

Also Altair was definitely not the only Master Assassin. He's the Grandmaster. There's a number of Master Assassins under the Grand Master. I missed this point earlier.

3. Nothing so far has addressed the very undeniable fact that Altair has an insurmountable advantage with his ability to avoid damage. Connor has strength but it hasn't translated into as many feats. He was overpowered by his Indian friend with the long name I'm too lazy to google and would have died if not for his hidden blade. Comparatively, Altair was able to choke Moloch whose strength feat is better than any of Connor's. The bottom line is that Altair's advantage in evasion is more consistent, more impressive and has more applicable value that anything for Connor.

4. Old Man Altair was able to overcome fully armed Assassins barehanded and you miss the most relevent issue here. This is a feat of Altair's pure skill. By this time, he's old and well past his prime. He can barely walk at a crawl, he has a bum leg and even short inclines make him wheeze and cough. With a ruined body, Altair, just on his skill, is still overcoming trained Assassin swordsmen. That's the skill Connor has to contend with. Now add Altair's younger body with the speed and reactions to battle through armies unscathed. There's no comparative attribute Connor can call on to close that gap.

4. I shouldn't have to be your fact checker and I certainly don't treat you like mine. I try to avoid misrepresenting facts with double standards just to prove a point like you just admitted to doing. When I first weighed in I noted the advantages of each. I didn't downgrade Connor needlessly just because I think Altair would win. Your modus operandi wastes time. You just wasted several messages just admitting Connor's Colonials were fodder even though we both knew that from the start and that itself was only an issue because you tried to selectively nitpick on Altair. After all that back and forth we're back to the same place where we should have been since the start. You nitpicked Altair's feats and after all that, absolutely nothing was gained because we both know the same applies to Connor.

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MonsterStomp

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@misterguyman:

1. Maria says that Abbas robbed Masyaf of all its joy. Moreover, that dialogue was a completely different topic. Even before Altair said Masyaf is now a shadow of its former self, he says "Maria, when we left Masyaf 10 years ago, this Order was strong. But all our progress has been undone.", then Maria goes on to say "Abbas must answer for this.". There is no denying that the assassins were lousier this time around under Abbas' reign. No one was actually training in the courtyard during "The Mentor's Return". They were just looking at the ring unaware of Altair's presence.

- Jagers were soldiers hired by British. Which alone is impressive. The database praises their accuracy a lot, doesn't mean they are slouches in melee. They are still of elite archetype, something the assassins Altair fought can't claim.

2. Altair kills Robert with a hidden blade while down, not in pure combat. We don't know if Altair even used the hidden blade in pure combat.

- Name me some other Master Assassins within Altair's Order...

3. You still have no solid proof Altair even used his hidden blade in raw combat. Moreover, his evasive abilities in hand-to-hand look a little like a brawler type. You think dodging is the only evasive ability? What about blocking? Stop dodging that fact. And again, Altair hasn't beat anyone with noteworthy skill. Using the Connor vs. Kanen'tó:kon instance is a poor lowball attempt. Kanen'tó:kon was mislead and Connor didn't want to kill his best friend over such reasoning. Altair's fight with Moloch was not unarmed, so the comparison is pointless again. You keep dodging the fact that Connor has more showings against tougher foes. You keep dodging the fact that Altair never knocked out a single soul. You keep dodging the fact that Connor can take far more punishment. Altair gets wrecked in hand-to-hand.

4. Again, the assassins were hesitant and lousier than pre-Abbas Reign. And AGAIN, tell me how Altair can apply the disarming skill, which Connor ALSO has, against a more skilled UNARMED opponent. Its a good skill set to have, unfortunately it means nothing and Connor also has it.

5. Now I know why I don't see you in this forum a lot. Where is the debate if we don't nitpick? I wouldn't even call it nitpick, I'd call it putting in context. You say Altair's hidden blade gives him the evasive edge when its just gameplay mechanics at this point, which is non-canon. That was our original argument.

What do you leave out of your original comment? You said Connor's strength doesn't translate into feats, when the dude has knocked out more men than Altair or Ezio could count. You use the hidden blade counter animations (game mechanics) as actual proof of Altair's evasive ability, yet not one showing of him utilizing that in hand-to-hand combat. On top of that you said Altair has better hand-to-hand feats, yet you have nothing to show for it. Bottom line--Altair fought mere civilians and didn't even beat them to a knock out, in addition, Altair has no pain tolerance feats, while Connor (at 14 years of age) didn't even get knocked out by a club swinging at his head. Who's to say Altair could even take a punch?

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MisterGuyMan

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#89  Edited By MisterGuyMan

@monsterstomp:

1. None of those statements refer to the individual assassins. The Order was indeed weaker but because of poor leadership. Altair spent two and a half decades expanding Assassin control through the Mediterranean. Abbas allows, Cyprus, one of their strongholds to be overrun because he was greedy and paranoid. That's specifically taken from their conversation. There is no mention of poor training at all. Mentor's Wake shows that the Assassins individually were still very capable. Moreover the filled courtyard dispels your earlier claim that Assassin training declined because of an empty courtyard.

Old Man Altair disarming Assassins remains the best unarmed feat for anyone based purely on skill. Jagers is still not trained in melee like Assassins were and Old Man Altair's feat illustrates his dominating skill without any advantages in strength or speed.

2. Altair killed Robert with the hidden blade. Altair can stab him with a sword in hand just as easily as he can with his hidden blade. If Robert were already down then it makes no sense to take sheathe his sword just to use another weapon.

3. The reactions and speed needed to go three games essentially without getting touched still remain. Yes, he can parry as well as dodge but the sheer amount of enemies he can go through unscathed gives him such staggeringly insane amounts of skill and reaction to make arguing parrying vs dodging irrelevant. Your argument is basically saying that even if Master Chief can dodge bullets, there's no proof he can dodge arrows. Skill and reaction time still apply. Moreover Old Man Altair disarming trained Assassins still shows how dominant his hand to hand skill is without the preternatural speed or strength of his youth.

4. Again, there's no evidence of any dip in their training. Replay Mentor's Return and watch the Assassins. After Altair enlists their help they show all the usual skill of the Assassins. You cite vague statements about the Order as a whole to make a very specific claim about individual Assassins. I actually point out the specific examples stated, the fall of Cyrpus and the lack of Joy in Masyuf, and none of them mention a decline in training.

5. I'm not nitpicking gameplay mechanics. I flat out pointed out that outside of gameplay Altair kills Robert de Sable with the hidden blade regardless of what you do in gameplay. The nitpicking is only bad when it's obviously for a double standard. It's honestly useless. We both go over facts we both already know just because you opt to argue with misleading information. There's also no use of pointing out context if the context applies to both sides. It's like saying Master Chief is faster than Captain America because while both dodge bullets, Master Chief dodges bullets that are hyper sonic. The point just wastes time because all bullets are hypersonic anyway. Yet some one will have to waste the time to point it out.

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nothingistrue13

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#90  Edited By nothingistrue13

So here's how I look at it, having played ALL AC Games:

Fight 1: Altair was brought up as an assassin since he was a kid, a little younger than when Conner met Achilles. So one would think that Altair would have had more skill. However, after playing with both hand to hand, Conner has more diversity, agility, and strength then Altair has. And as others have pointed out, he was able to kill his father whilst being disoriented from cannon fire.

Fight 2: Dual Blades equal out, flintlock and hidden gun equal out, throwing knives equal out. So that leaves their primary and secondary bladed weapons. The Sword of Altair has renown throughout the series, so I think it would take the edge over the Washington Replica Sword. However, Connor's Axe, I feel, is a far more effective weapon than Altair's knife. So far, the edge's equal out, so it would come down to skill with each. Again, I would have to give it to Connor; he has far more diversity and ability in combat, able to take down multiple foes at once, as opposed to Altair individually going after targets. One feat that you could argue Altair having is fighting Al Mualim whilst the latter had the Apple; however, Al Mualim was using his tool poorly, due to the fact that later in the series, Ezio, Desmond, and even Altair, used the Apple to manipulate their enemies, while Al Mualim only restrained Altair a few times and created clones of himself.

In Conclusion: I feel Conner would win both fights, winning the second won a little harder than the first.

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MethoKi

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#91  Edited By MethoKi
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MisterGuyMan

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@batman242:

Ok, not all. Early Flintlocks were slower. Modern 9mm handguns though are hypersonic. 40 cal isn't hypersonic. I didn't think the statement through completely but Cap and MC have dodged hypersonic bullets which was the important part.

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MethoKi

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@misterguyman: What? 9mm handguns aren't anywhere near hypersonic. They hardly excel the speed of Mach 1 and that's about 760+ MPH. Hypersonic speeds are around Mach 5 and that translates to 3800+ MPH. 30mm cannons fire at 2300+ MPH and that's only Mach 3. There's no way possible a handguns bullets are going to be faster than that of a jet's cannons.

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Penderor

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@monsterstomp: Thats what I am thinking. Different game = different gameplay. When Connor will be able to defeat 1v1 knight then tell me please.

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MisterGuyMan

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@batman242:

I wasn't aware hypersonic was an official term. I always thougt it just implied faster than sound. That's what I was referring to. I apologize for the mistake.

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MethoKi

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@batman242:

I wasn't aware hypersonic was an official term. I always thougt it just implied faster than sound. That's what I was referring to. I apologize for the mistake.

It's cool

...And now you know. :)

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MonsterStomp

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@penderor said:

@monsterstomp: Thats what I am thinking. Different game = different gameplay. When Connor will be able to defeat 1v1 knight then tell me please.

... Jager's > Knights.

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Mike_Fowler

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@nothingistrue13: just two things first al Muslim DID manipulate ALL the other assassins with Altair it was because he has TWCB DNA

Second while Connor did kill his father it was only because he caught haytham off guard while he was strangling Connor and was close to killing him

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nothingistrue13

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@dbzk1999:

1) You're correct, but I meant during the fight. I should have specified that, but during the fight, he could have killed Alltair.

2) Again correct. I'll chalk this one up to plot. Haytham nearly had him beat.

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MonsterStomp

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@dbzk1999 said:

Second while Connor did kill his father it was only because he caught haytham off guard while he was strangling Connor and was close to killing him

To be fair, Connor was suffering severely.