Altair vs Connor

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Super_Buck

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#1  Edited By Super_Buck

Altair

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Connor

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Conditions

  • Morals On
  • Altair has Double Hidden Blades, Hidden Gun, Sword of Altair, Throwing Knives (10) and Short Blade.
  • Connor has Double Hidden blades, Flintlock, Washington's Sword Replica, Throwing Knives (10), and his War Tomahawk.
  • Fight to the death in a Masyaf/New York (1700s) hybrid arena.

Round One: Hand to hand only.

Round Two: Listed Gear.

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Super_Buck

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MonsterStomp

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I could write an essay on why I think Connor takes this, but no thanks.

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dondave

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Connor

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Wolverine008

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#5  Edited By Wolverine008

I could write an essay on why I think Connor takes this, but no thanks.

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No essay?

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MonsterStomp

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@wolverine08: No essay today. Unless someone just drops some immensely flawed logic. Then I'll Hulk out and type an essay with anger, pushing on the keyboard insanely hard and sh*t ;)

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onilordasmodeus

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#7  Edited By onilordasmodeus

@monsterstomp: I'd like to read an essay today...Lol!

IMO Connor would take Round 1, but Altair would take round 2.

In h2h Connor would beat Altair just because of how much of a beast he is, but in round 2 I think Altair's experience, cunning, and superior Eagle Sense would allow him to get the drop on Connor from a far. As long a Altair can keep his distance his chances to win are pretty high.

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MonsterStomp

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#8  Edited By MonsterStomp

@onilordasmodeus: I think Connor has done more in his prime than Altair, to be honest.

First round should be a clear give to Connor. Altair fought untrained informants. Connor fought his father while severely injured and has also competed in fight clubs.

Second round is a little harder for Connor. However he's far more agile, has a lot more pain tolerance, and pretty much fought/survived in a more technological advanced era with that gear.

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onilordasmodeus

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#9  Edited By onilordasmodeus

@monsterstomp: What you said is true, and I agree with everything except you technology statement.

It is true that Connor fought in a more tech advanced era, but Altair himself used/built tech that was even more advanced than the stuff Connor used. Altair's hidden gun is smaller and more accurate that Connor's guns, his sword is arguable stronger and more sharp than anything seen in Connor armament, not to mention Altair's armor (I'm assuming he has it; @super_buck?).

While Connor is more agile than Altair was, and probably has a higher tolerance of pain, Altair in his armor is far more durable/protected than Connor off top, and more accurate than him from a far.

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rogueshadow

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#10 rogueshadow  Moderator

Connor.

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Mike_Fowler

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Round 1 Connor (even though I really don't like him)

Round 2 Altair (hidden gun is more accurate sword of Altair is arguabl better if he has his armor that definetely gives hims the win

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Penderor

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Altair kills him with longer medium difficulty. First round is probably tougher than the second.

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MonsterStomp

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@onilordasmodeus: Altair's hidden gun may be more accurate, but the only feats he has with it was shooting Abbas, who was just standing there. I also doubt Altair's sword is stronger than Connor's, which is made of a silver-iron ingot alloy. Even if it is, I don't see how it's an advantage.

While Connor is more agile than Altair was, and probably has a higher tolerance of pain, Altair in his armor is far more durable/protected than Connor off top, and more accurate than him from a far.

Probably? Connor fought Haytham while suffering from cannonball ricochet. That injury also continued on to the following mission. Connor was also impaled, yet tracks down Lee in a Tavern before seeking medical attention. Connor can cope much better while in pain.

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Super_Buck

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MethoKi

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#15  Edited By MethoKi

Altair was more about stealth than upfront combat. That's not to say that Altair is a slouch, but being compared to Connor, he doesn't hold that much.

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XLR87T3

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DarthAznable

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Connor outclasses him.

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JonSmith

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#18  Edited By JonSmith

I'm going to say Connor takes the first round, but Altair takes the second.

And I'm only saying Connor takes the first round because he's able to counter conventional weaponry barehanded while Altair is not. Aside from that, Connor completely gets wrecked in Round 2. Altair may have been more about stealth, but he's LUDICROUSLY more skilled in combat. Take into account the synch meter, which was only present in the first game, and acted as a health bar. Why did it act as a health bar in the first game, instead of a general progress thing as it was later?

Because Altair was so skilled that simply the act of getting hit was so rare it caused him to lose synchronization. Think about that: With Ezio, Connor, they take a lot of hits throughout their life, so like with their missions, it all tends to blend together. As such, we just get a conventional health meter. Altair takes so few throughout the time we play him that he specifically remembers EVERY time he does, so whenever he gets hit while being played as, it breaks up his synchronization.

As for other combat skills, while it's true that Connor runs up against more advanced weaponry, that's only a factor from distance. So yeah, Connor'll be able to take a few shots from Altair's hidden gun, effectively making it meaningless. However, Altair never once runs across an opponent he can't counter. Every single enemy in the game can be counter-killed with Altair's hidden blade, clearly speaking of his skill with the weapon. Connor, on the other hand, not only runs into enemies which he can't counter-kill, but FREQUENTLY runs into them, to the point they're a part of nearly every combat encounter. Which speaks to his lack of skills.

Connor's a bada**, no denying that. He's a one man army, no doubt. But Altair is on a whole other level.

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Sparnage

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Altair

Conditions

  • Morals On
  • Altair has Double Hidden Blades, Hidden Gun, Sword of Altair, Throwing Knives (10) and Short Blade.

Too bad Altair will refuse to use dual hidden blades unless he takes off his second ring finger, and with an injured limb it's going to impair him for the rest of the fights.

Connor wins round one cause he has a lot higher endurance/durability, and come on, he clearly lifts bruh.

For round two, Connor can climb trees, Altair cant. And anyways, the battle is pointless to a stalemate. If played correctly, both assassins are going to be doing the same thing; moving in a circle, waiting to press circle (if on Playstation) when the other makes a move, which they will not.

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Mike_Fowler

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@sparnage: do you know the double hidden blades you do realize altair made it to where you don't have to sacrifice a limb for the second blade and others

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Sparnage

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#21  Edited By Sparnage
Loading Video...

@dbzk1999:

Pretty sure Leo did it...


EDIT: And pretty sure he never used a second hidden blade either, so wouldn't be trained in it anyways.

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MonsterStomp

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@sparnage said:

For round two, Connor can climb trees, Altair cant. And anyways, the battle is pointless to a stalemate. If played correctly, both assassins are going to be doing the same thing; moving in a circle, waiting to press circle (if on Playstation) when the other makes a move, which they will not.

You're looking at it as two real life players are fighting against each other. We don't do that here. Not in this country.

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MonsterStomp

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@sparnage: Altair made the dual hidden blades. Its written in the codex.

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Wolverine008

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Connor.

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Mike_Fowler

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#25  Edited By Mike_Fowler

@sparnage: you must be trolling

Or as Leo says "I'm just having fun"

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TechN9ne

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Does the word GRANDMASTER mean nothing to all you Connor nut-huggers?

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MonsterStomp

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#27  Edited By MonsterStomp
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Artyom

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@techn9ne: Yeah, It's a title...pretty much means nothing.

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TechN9ne

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@artyom: A well earned title. He's the only grandmaster assassin in the world. He's the greatest who ever lived.

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Mike_Fowler

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@artyom: I wouldn't say JUST a title it has some merit to it

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Emperorb777

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Altair takes both rounds with ease.

/Chuckmate

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DarthAznable

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@techn9ne said:

Does the word GRANDMASTER mean nothing to all you Connor nut-huggers?

All Connor's feats are way greater than Altair's. A title means nothing when you have nothing to show for it. It is also stated that Connor is physically the strongest assassin. Even in gameplay he's faster and more agile than any other assassin to date.

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MonsterStomp

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Altair is so overrated.

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Emperorb777

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Altair>Ezio>Edward>Connor.

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onilordasmodeus

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If I remember correctly, Connor was a Grandmaster at the end of AC3. Just as Altair was thrust in to position, so was Connor...and it happened to him at a younger age.

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MonsterStomp

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@onilordasmodeus: That's incorrect, I'm pretty sure by the end of Connor's memories he retired from the Order. He never really wanted to be part of it anyway.

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Mike_Fowler

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@monsterstomp: @onilordasmodeus:

No Connor didn't retire from the order but he was un officially the mentor and lol at you onilordasmodeus Altair was younger than Connor when he became mentor

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onilordasmodeus

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@ Dbzk1999

No, he wasn't. Altair became Mentor at age 29 iirc; Connor was 27.

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Mike_Fowler

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#39  Edited By Mike_Fowler

@onilordasmodeus: no Altair was 26 (born in 1165 became mentor in 1191 master assassin at 25) Connor became unofficial mentor in 1781-1783 (as you can't really pinpoint Achilles death as it's optional)Connor was born in 1756 meaning he was 25-27 so pretty much it depends on when Achilles died (I think it was in 1782-1783)

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Stormdriven

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Connor stomps first round. I love Altair, and he is no slouch at h2h, but Connor wrecks him here. Just physically better, he's bigger, and more skilled. Round 2 is different. Altair has much "looser" morals than Connor does, coupled with arguably better skill with his weaponry than Connor does with his. So I'd give Altair a 6-7/10 majority for Round 2.

And depending on the starting distance, Altair could simply use stealth to win both rounds handily, getting the drop on Connor before Connor finds him, since Altair fits the "assassin" description better than Connor who is more of a brawler.

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onilordasmodeus

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@dbzk1999: Seems we are/were both wrong.

  1. Though you can do a few events out of order from the players perspective, it's not optional when Achilles dies. Achilles died in 1781...when Connor was 25, which effectively made him the Mentor of the Brotherhood. Also I should note that Connor was never given a rank at all under Achilles, but in AC4 Connor was described as being a "Master Assassin".
  2. Altair was the youngest member of the order to make Master Assassin rank (until Connor that is), and was in fact 26 when Al-Mualim died and became the Order's Mentor.

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Mike_Fowler

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@onilordasmodeus:

2. Altair was still the youngest master assassin (became one in 1189) he was 24 when he became a master assassin

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Penderor

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MisterGuyMan

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These two are my favorite of the Assassins actually. In an older topic I gave both of them an equal chance in hand to hand. Now I'd give Altair an edge. Connor is physically stronger but that strength doesn't translate into feats. Altair has the agility advantage since he's the only one of the main Assassins to train with the original hidden blade. They couldn't parry anything and are the closest to hand to hand combat. Having said that, Altair has better H2H feats. He fights and disarms several Assassins without getting damaged in Revelations.

With weapons Altair definitely wins. His feats are just better.

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Emperorb777

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@penderor: Wrong

Aveline>Desmond>Altair>Ezio>Edward>Connor

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MonsterStomp

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These two are my favorite of the Assassins actually. In an older topic I gave both of them an equal chance in hand to hand. Now I'd give Altair an edge. Connor is physically stronger but that strength doesn't translate into feats. Altair has the agility advantage since he's the only one of the main Assassins to train with the original hidden blade. They couldn't parry anything and are the closest to hand to hand combat. Having said that, Altair has better H2H feats. He fights and disarms several Assassins without getting damaged in Revelations.

With weapons Altair definitely wins. His feats are just better.

When Altair uses the hidden blade for anything other than assassinations, holla back. Disarming has no use when in a hand-to-hand fight.

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MisterGuyMan

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@monsterstomp:

Disarming Assassins is a hand to hand feat. The original hidden blade gives Altair the agility advantage.

I already see where your tactics are headed. You're going to badmouth anything and everything Altair has ever done with nitpicky reasons and use a double standard for Connor. Your entire last post was a thinly veiled excuse to pretend none of Altair's feats should count.

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MonsterStomp

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#48  Edited By MonsterStomp

@misterguyman: Disarming is a hand-to-hand feat, but what good is it on another unarmed foe? The original blade gives Altair the agility edge? How so? You have no canon showings of Altair using his hidden blade in open conflict. He's always got his guard down and the player has to time the counter perfectly every time. Also, when Altair is in open conflict, he usually just automatically equips his sword. Moreover, Altair, even Connor have completely different animations when comparing hidden blade to hand-to-hand.

I never pretended that none of Altair's feats wouldn't count. I've just become a much better debater since our last beef. I've accepted my flawed arguments and found holes in yours.

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rogueshadow

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#49 rogueshadow  Moderator

Still Connor.

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DarthAznable

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#50  Edited By DarthAznable