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#101 Posted by Red_Ruby_Petal (8252 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower: I don't see why its any stronger than any man made nuke, his best punch reverted him to Toshinori

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#102 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18427 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower: I agree tanking a nuke isn't the same as tanking a punch with the force of a nuke as the punch has all of its energy directed into a fist and all the force is transported the target in one small fist sized location, but I believe the nuke that hit Superman was quite a big one and the fight was taking place at night so he probably wasn't at his strongest to begin with and JL Superman is probably even stronger. But I do think Allmight has a chance. He probably hits harder than Superman, but from what I've seen Superman may have more lifting strength and possibly durability.

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#103 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8443 posts) - - Show Bio

Striking power far beyond anything Super has ever come in contact with and durability thats too high for him to truly hurt All Might.

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#104 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower: can you post these punches from all might that are more destructive than any man made nuke?

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#105 Posted by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower: I don't see why its any stronger than any man made nuke, his best punch reverted him to Toshinori

He didn't have One For All in his body and was already pushing himself past his limits.

@higherpower: I agree tanking a nuke isn't the same as tanking a punch with the force of a nuke as the punch has all of its energy directed into a fist and all the force is transported the target in one small fist sized location, but I believe the nuke that hit Superman was quite a big one and the fight was taking place at night so he probably wasn't at his strongest to begin with and JL Superman is probably even stronger. But I do think Allmight has a chance. He probably hits harder than Superman, but from what I've seen Superman may have more lifting strength and possibly durability.

All Might definitely hits harder than Superman, not probably. That's not even debatable. Superman's only real advantage is speed since lifting doesn't matter that much here and his versatilty won't change the outcome of the fight. All Might dwarfs him in power output and durability.

@jashugan said:

@higherpower: can you post these punches from all might that are more destructive than any man made nuke?

You should know AM's best striking feat. The punch he delivered against AFO that dwarfed multiple city blocks and destroyed them with it's shockwave carries way more force at its center than any nuke.

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#106 Edited by Pierpat (5855 posts) - - Show Bio

Am hits harder, but i don't know if it's enough to hurt supes. Supes is also faster as for JL, he wins via heat vision, once he realizes his strength is probably not enough to put down Toshinori

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#107 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower: you can post the feat and compare it to every man made nuke.

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#108 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan: I'm on mobile, and I have bad connection here. So I can't post the feat, but I know you know the one I'm talking about.

The Tsar Bomba is the strongest nuclear weapon in existence and it can't destroy numerous city blocks with it's shockwave alone (at least not when the explosion is neutralized), and that is what a punch extremely weakened All Might did.

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#109 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

And this is under the assumption that Superman was even hit by something as strong as the Tsar Bomb. Even if we assume he was, it wouldn't matter, since Superman was practically mummified by the nuke despite Doomsday absorbed most of the impact.

So All Might can hit several times harder than something that's already been shown to be sufficient in causing Superman grave and mortal injury. If Superman wasn't outside the Earth's atmosphere where he was exposed to unfiltered sunlight, it's very plausible that he wouldn't have been able to heal and could have just died.

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#110 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower: it is speculation that doomsday absorbed "most" of the impact. You'll actually have to prove that.

All might didn't destroy city blocks from shockwaves alone. If you're talking about his fight with one for all, it was the clash between them that destroyed those buildings

Nuclear bomb knocked him out, not a mortal or even permanent injury.

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#111 Posted by Malzahaar (1001 posts) - - Show Bio

In the newest episode he was sent through 5 bulidings and it was considered a weak attack, I'm not sure Clark has the striking to harm All Might.

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#112 Edited by Malzahaar (1001 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan: The Nuke turned him into a mummy with the Sun he was toast... The hell you mean no injury?

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#113 Edited by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@malzahaar: you should read my comment if you find me said there was "no injury"

It's not like Clark wasn't sent through buildings in his first movie

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#114 Posted by Malzahaar (1001 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan: he was sent though a couple partial buildings, the entire buildings came down when AM went through them.

You sad no permanent injury my bad, you're still implying that he was fine and dandy, if not for the Sun he'd probably be dead.

And it was a weak attack, Zod hit Supes full force.

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#115 Edited by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@malzahaar: because all might was sent through the base of those buildings while superman went through the upper portions of a building

No, I'm directly saying that a nuclear bomb couldn't kill him but K.O him which is what happened. Therefore it wasn't a permanent injury.

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#116 Posted by Malzahaar (1001 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan: Do you have some inside knowledge on what the Nuke did to him? Being KO'd doesn't turn you into a goul it obviously did more than KO or else we wouldn't have seen him in that goulish state.

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#117 Posted by DrPepperMan (6288 posts) - - Show Bio

All might holding back wrecked buildings while weighed and using only the shockwave of his punch hitting air. The shockwave of Zod and Superman clashing while bullrushing each other didn't do 1/10 of that and they were hurting each other. It's clear that all might murders him.

Oh but I forgot, in the DCEU you no sell everything unless you get damaged on screen by it, and we should judge durability based off hair, so Superman no sold that nuke, meaning he was never hurt by anything, meaning he has continental durability or at lowballed minimum large mountain due to AA Thor getting no sold by him according to experts

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#118 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@malzahaar: radiation turned him to looking like a ghoul (reference to dark knight returns), the force of the nuke K.O'd him.

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#119 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@drpepperman: this is a zero content post based on something that no one in this thread has argued for.

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#120 Posted by Red_Ruby_Petal (8252 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower: i dont know where you got the claim that nukes dont destroy city blocks. It does even more so with actual landmass and the shockwave in B v S extended towards to actual city itself.

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#121 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal: he's a my hero academy/ all might fan so I want to see his reasoning why a nuclear bomb couldn't destroy a city block.

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#122 Posted by Pipxeroth (9363 posts) - - Show Bio

"A multi-city-block punch is massively above any nuke ever made"

Christ, CV is getting more and more stupid

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#123 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (12143 posts) - - Show Bio
@red_ruby_petal said:

@higherpower: I don't see why its any stronger than any man made nuke, his best punch reverted him to Toshinori

He didn't have One For All in his body and was already pushing himself past his limits.

@alextheboss said:

@higherpower: I agree tanking a nuke isn't the same as tanking a punch with the force of a nuke as the punch has all of its energy directed into a fist and all the force is transported the target in one small fist sized location, but I believe the nuke that hit Superman was quite a big one and the fight was taking place at night so he probably wasn't at his strongest to begin with and JL Superman is probably even stronger. But I do think Allmight has a chance. He probably hits harder than Superman, but from what I've seen Superman may have more lifting strength and possibly durability.

All Might definitely hits harder than Superman, not probably. That's not even debatable. Superman's only real advantage is speed since lifting doesn't matter that much here and his versatilty won't change the outcome of the fight. All Might dwarfs him in power output and durability.

@jashugan said:

@higherpower: can you post these punches from all might that are more destructive than any man made nuke?

You should know AM's best striking feat. The punch he delivered against AFO that dwarfed multiple city blocks and destroyed them with it's shockwave carries way more force at its center than any nuke.

Are you serious?

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#124 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio
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#125 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan said:

@higherpower: it is speculation that doomsday absorbed "most" of the impact. You'll actually have to prove that.

All might didn't destroy city blocks from shockwaves alone. If you're talking about his fight with one for all, it was the clash between them that destroyed those buildings

Nuclear bomb knocked him out, not a mortal or even permanent injury.

The nuke hit his body directly and he has absorption abilities. Even if it wasn't "most" of the impact, he logically took the brunt of the explosion.

The clash resulted in a shockwave that destroyed and eclipsed multiple city blocks.

It didn't just knock him out, look at his skin and his face. The damage was pretty significant.

@red_ruby_petal said:

@higherpower: i dont know where you got the claim that nukes dont destroy city blocks. It does even more so with actual landmass and the shockwave in B v S extended towards to actual city itself.

I never said nukes can't destroy city blocks. The Tsar Bomb can level Paris. But it can't destroy close to that much purely based on the air pressure/shockwave it releases. One can make a better argument for Prime All Might being able to.

@thebestofthebest said:

Are you serious?

Yes. Barring Banter who was the only one who put up sound evidence for a counter argument, trolling on discord doesn't discredit that. All Might hits harder than a nuke and I'm sorry if you can't accept it.

@pipxeroth said:

"A multi-city-block punch is massively above any nuke ever made"

Christ, CV is getting more and more stupid

Don't take my words out of context. Once you work on your reading comprehension and get it up to at least a fifth grade level, I'll entertain your pathetic excuse for an argument. That is if you even try to make an argument, seeing as you always pussy out when I tell you to stop shitposting on Discord and debate me on CV.

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#126 Edited by Red_Ruby_Petal (8252 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower:

Can you read? I never said nukes can't destroy city blocks. The Tsar Bomb can level Paris. But it can't destroy close to that much purely based on the air pressure/shockwave it releases. Prime All Might should be able to.

I don't understand where you get those facts from or you are just simply making it up. A nuke is deadly because of heat and its shockwaves. What other factors could be involved that makes a nuke inferior in terms of physical force?

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#127 Posted by Pipxeroth (9363 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower: How am I taking your words out of context? You literally said:

"The punch he delivered against AFO that dwarfed multiple city blocks and destroyed them with it's shockwave carries way more force at its center than any nuke."

You are straight up claiming that that punch he did, which at best destroyed multiple city blocks, carries 'way more force than any nuke'. Anybody with 0 knowledge on nukes can spend 3 minutes on Google and find that what you said is just blatantly wrong.

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#128 Edited by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower: Doomsday "logically, did not take the brunt of the explosion. Don't make the claim he took most of it especially since you're doing a shoddy job supporting that argument.

No, the force from both All might & all for one destroyed those blocks.

The skin happened damage happened from radiation, unless All might has radiation he's not replicating that damage.

Clark at this point is good enough with his speed that he won't give All might chance to "one shot" him as you've claimed.

Please prove to us that those punches are greater than any man made nuke

This is not a shockwave, it is the damage caused by both All might and All for one punching each other

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

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#129 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal:

I don't understand where you get those facts from or you are just simply making it up. A nuke is deadly because of heat and its shockwaves. What other factors could be involved that makes a nuke inferior in terms of physical force?

You're ignoring a key factor for the type of "shockwave" All Might caused.

  • He was punching someone else, and the destruction that was reaped was literally just collateral damage; an after effect. It was the excess air pressure from the attack, since the entirety of the force generated from the punch's focal point was immediately reversed back into Toshinori's body via All For One's quirk.

AKA the actual force of the punch itself was never expelled outwardly in full. All the damage we see is a shockwave/air pressure from the contained blow, since AFO sent all the actual force back inside All Might after the collision. When a bomb explodes, ALL of the force is released at once. There's no way to tell for sure how much DC any nuke can generate if the explosion itself (the force) is completely inversed, and all that escapes is the after effect in the form of intense air. Do you get what I'm trying to say?

@pipxeroth said:

@higherpower: How am I taking your words out of context? You literally said:

"The punch he delivered against AFO that dwarfed multiple city blocks and destroyed them with it's shockwave carries way more force at its center than any nuke."

You are straight up claiming that that punch he did, which at best destroyed multiple city blocks, carries 'way more force than any nuke'. Anybody with 0 knowledge on nukes can spend 3 minutes on Google and find that what you said is just blatantly wrong.

I said way more force at it's center. The focal point. As I explained to Ruby, all the damage he released was contained by and subsequently released back into his own body by his opponent, All For One. The destruction of multiple city blocks is something that can be accomplished by any nuke, but what nuke can level large portions of a city as an after effect of the bomb's explosion and not the explosion itself?

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#130 Posted by DeChefMan98 (1015 posts) - - Show Bio

All Might

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#131 Posted by Pipxeroth (9363 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower:

I said way more force at it's center. The focal point.

Which, again, is blatantly false

As I explained to Ruby, all the damage he released was contained by and subsequently released back into his own body by his opponent, All For One. The destruction of multiple city blocks is something that can be accomplished by any nuke, but what nuke can level large portions of a city as an after effect of the explosion and not the explosion itself?

Just to be clear, you're talking about the shockwave of the blast, yes? You've already seen that a simple 0.3 kiloton nuke which is the weakest thing in the US arsenal can do this, so I don't know why you're so keen on ignoring it. The nuke in BvS for reference was one thousand times that at 300 kilotons. Let's stick with using Paris as an example like you were saying:

No Caption Provided

That third circle from the centre is what you're looking for. That's the size of size of the 5psi shockwave, which according to the site is enough for most buildings to get leveled, from the nuke that was used in BvS. Almost 70 square kilometres. You can look at it for yourself here.

And that is nowhere near being the most powerful nuke out there.

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#132 Edited by deactivated-5b728068f211c (7069 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan said:

@red_ruby_petal: he's a my hero academy/ all might fan so I want to see his reasoning why a nuclear bomb couldn't destroy a city block.

You're forgetting the word "shockwave" though.

The Tsar Bomba is the strongest nuclear weapon in existence and it can't destroy numerous city blocks with it's shockwave alone, and that is what a punch extremely weakened All Might did.

OT: From the feats posted, All-Might takes it with difficulty, due to Superman's speed. That or Clark BFRs him.

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#133 Edited by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@death2heretics: His comment is inherently false since All might did not destroy city blocks with his shockwaves. He destroyed a city block with his clash with All for one, not a shock wave.

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#134 Edited by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (12143 posts) - - Show Bio
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#135 Posted by deactivated-5b728068f211c (7069 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan: I was just pointing out that you forgot the word shockwave.

Could you show me the scan?

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#136 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@pipxeroth:

Just to be clear, you're talking about the shockwave of the blast, yes? You've already seen that a simple 0.3 kiloton nuke which is the weakest thing in the US arsenal can do this, so I don't know why you're so keen on ignoring it. The nuke in BvS for reference was one thousand times that at 300 kilotons. Let's stick with using Paris as an example like you were saying:

What you don't seem to understand is that there's a key difference in the type of shockwaves that are being discussed here. The shockwave released by nukes and bombs are directly expelled after the explosion sets off. If the explosion itself is nullified and inversed at the moment of impact, it's plausible that the shockwave that would be generated from said explosion ends up drastically dampened if not cancelled out completely. All Might's "shockwave" was really just the after effect of a punch was not only matched evenly by a punch of presumably equal force (negating the power and momentum) but the damage of which was then sent back into his body.

There's no way to know if any nuke, even the one you posted, can cause as much damage it's shown to be capable of if the catalyst for the damage is nullified and inversed. Can that nuke still destroy that area with the shockwave from an explosion that doesn't... fully explode?

That third circle from the centre is what you're looking for. That's the size of size of the 5psi shockwave, which according to the site is enough for most buildings to get leveled, from the nuke that was used in BvS. Almost 70 square kilometres. You can look at it for yourself here.

And that is nowhere near being the most powerful nuke out there.

Cool, I guess.

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#137 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@death2heretics:

No Caption Provided

This is not a shockwave, it's an impressive shared feat but not a shockwave. It's the air and debris from the destroyed building All might and All for one punching each other. This is supported given the fact that All for one piled up all his quarks together to punch All might, and one of this quirks is air cannon that shoots air combined with the twisting of his arms.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

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#138 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan: The spiky white conical eruption you see is what is referred to as a shockwave when debating manga. All Might and All For One didn't physically touch any thing they destroyed. They were mid-air, and their clash wrecked the landscape on the ground. So their clash resulted in an AoE shockwave.

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#139 Edited by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower said:

@jashugan: The spiky white conical eruption you see is what is referred to as a shockwave when debating manga. All Might and All For One didn't physically touch any thing they destroyed. They were mid-air, and their clash wrecked the landscape on the ground. So their clash resulted in an AoE shockwave.

No Caption Provided

Only All for one was mid air and that's because he jumped at All might. It's all air and debris, looking at the area right before they punch each other, it doesn't even seem like there was anything else on the ground. Even if you want to call it shockwaves, the "shockwaves" produced didn't destroy much because that area only had rubble there.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

When All might puts his back into it with a full punch, while impressive, isn't as impressive as both him and all for one clashing. Again, more air created from his punch and not shockwaves.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Keep in mind you have yet to properly debate or prove that all might's shockwaves are "greater than any man made nuke". If you were smart you would admit to being wrong and move on from there.

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#140 Edited by Red_Ruby_Petal (8252 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower:

You're ignoring a key factor for the type of "shockwave" All Might caused.

  • He was punching someone else, and the destruction that was reaped was literally just collateral damage; an after effect. It was the excess air pressure from the attack, since the entirety of the force generated from the punch's focal point was immediately reversed back into Toshinori's body via All For One's quirk.

AKA the actual force of the punch itself was never expelled outwardly in full. All the damage we see is a shockwave/air pressure from the contained blow, since AFO sent all the actual force back inside All Might after the collision. When a bomb explodes, ALL of the force is released at once. There's no way to tell for sure how much DC any nuke can generate if the explosion itself (the force) is completely inversed, and all that escapes is the after effect in the form of intense air. Do you get what I'm trying to say?

I think I get what you mean but you are trying to differ nukes and punch shockwaves completely.

All the damage we see is a shockwave/air pressure from the contained blow

ALL of the force is released at once.

But what really hurts is having all that force released in an instant. The only difference is that nuke's don't initially contain energy. They produce it and the energy does go somewhere. That is is the victim. In the end the energy is the same, the force delivery isn't.

When a bomb explodes, ALL of the force is released at once. There's no way to tell for sure how much DC any nuke can generate if the explosion itself (the force) is completely inversed, and all that escapes is the after effect in the form of intense air.

In a scientific point of view, a nuke's energy as soon as it starts to explode has so much to it that it would rip apart all existing matter to subatomic particles (even smaller than protons, neutrons). There is no known matter to even exist that could resist that kind of energy. The molecules themselves rip apart matter so in the end it is still a much smaller area.

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#141 Posted by Pipxeroth (9363 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower:

What you don't seem to understand is that there's a key difference in the type of shockwaves that are being discussed here. The shockwave released by nukes and bombs are directly expelled after the explosion sets off. If the explosion itself is nullified and inversed at the moment of impact, it's plausible that the shockwave that would be generated from said explosion ends up drastically dampened if not cancelled out completely. All Might's "shockwave" was really just the after effect of a punch was not only matched evenly by a punch of presumably equal force (negating the power and momentum) but the damage of which was then sent back into his body.

There's no way to know if any nuke, even the one you posted, can cause as much damage it's shown to be capable of if the catalyst for the damage is nullified and inversed. Can that nuke still destroy that area with the shockwave from an explosion that doesn't... fully explode?

I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. Of course if the explosion isn't allowed to fully go off the shockwaves wouldn't be as powerful, what difference does that make? That's like saying if someone grabbed All Might's arm and stopped his punch from connecting the shockwave wouldn't be able to do the same thing either. Remember, your original claim was that All Might's punch is more powerful than any nuke because its shockwaves destroyed multiple city blocks, which you somehow think a nuke isn't capable of doing despite the clear evidence that nukes hundreds of times weaker than the one in question can. Now you seem to be changing your argument to what, that All Might's punch is more powerful than a nuke that doesn't detonate properly?

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#142 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan:

Only All for one was mid air and that's because he jumped at All might. It's all air and debris, looking at the area right before they punch each other, it doesn't even seem like there was anything else on the ground. Even if you want to call it shockwaves, the "shockwaves" produced didn't destroy much because that area only had rubble there.

Either your definition of shockwave differs from everyone/anyone else I've debated concerning manga, or you don't realize that the "air" you mention in these quoted statements are what we consider shockwaves. If that word doesn't fly with you I'll just call it air pressure.

When All might puts his back into it with a full punch, while impressive, isn't as impressive as both him and all for one clashing. Again, more air created from his punch and not shockwaves.

In those scans he's punching All For One and causing a massive updraft which sinks several buildings. Those are shockwaves/air pressure because he's not actually touching the buildings that are being eviscerated, rather, they're being wrecked from the intense air and force released as result his blows.

Keep in mind you have yet to properly debate or prove that all might's shockwaves are "greater than any man made nuke". If you were smart you would admit to being wrong and move on from there.

I said All Might's punches are greater than nukes, not the shockwaves of his punches. If you were smart and could read you would admit to being wrong and move on from there. My reasoning for that statement is that the shockwaves of his punches can cause as much damage as they do despite his the source of the shockwave (his punches) were nullified and suppressed. Name a nuke that can destroy multiple city blocks from the shockwave of it's explosion if the explosion is completely nullified/negated and it's damage is reversed.

@red_ruby_petal

I think I get what you mean but you are trying to differ nukes and punch shockwaves completely.

They are indeed different in this situation. Even if they were the same brand of shockwave, All Might's shockwave was able to annihilate city blocks in spite of the fact his punch was met with comparable force in the form of One For All's punch, meaning the momentum and power of his blow was more or less canceled out. The shockwaves that resulted from their attack still destroyed jaw-dropping amounts of infrastructure even after the force of his blow was negated. In other words, he was able to destroy multiple city blocks from the force of a punch that was nearly reduced to zero of it's potential power. If the explosion of a nuke (or any bomb) is effectively neutralized at the point of conception, the shockwaves released from it will be nowhere near as powerful as what they've been shown to be, and possibly not even release shockwaves at all. That's why I've said All Might's punches are superior to nukes, and that's why I accredited the reasoning for that argument to his shockwaves.

But what really hurts is having all that force released in an instant. The only difference is that nuke's don't initially contain energy. They produce it and the energy does go somewhere. That is is the victim. In the end the energy is the same, the force delivery isn't.

That's awesome.

In a scientific point of view, a nuke's energy as soon as it starts to explode has so much to it that it would rip apart all existing matter to subatomic particles (even smaller than protons, neutrons). There is no known matter to even exist that could resist that kind of energy. The molecules themselves rip apart matter so in the end it is still a much smaller area.

Yeah this doesn't counter my statement.

@pipxeroth

I don't understand what point you're trying to make here.

Then I'll just say it again, clearer this time-

Of course if the explosion isn't allowed to fully go off the shockwaves wouldn't be as powerful, what difference does that make? That's like saying if someone grabbed All Might's arm and stopped his punch from connecting the shockwave wouldn't be able to do the same thing either. Remember, your original claim was that All Might's punch is more powerful than any nuke because its shockwaves destroyed multiple city blocks, which you somehow think a nuke isn't capable of doing despite the clear evidence that nukes hundreds of times weaker than the one in question can. Now you seem to be changing your argument to what, that All Might's punch is more powerful than a nuke that doesn't detonate properly?

-All Might's shockwave was able to annihilate city blocks in spite of the fact his punch was met with comparable force in the form of One For All's punch, meaning the momentum and power of his blow was more or less canceled out. The shockwaves that resulted from their attack still destroyed jaw-dropping amounts of infrastructure even after the force of his blow was effectively negated. In other words, he was able to destroy multiple city blocks from the force of a punch that was nearly reduced to zero of it's potential power. If the explosion of a nuke (or any bomb) is effectively neutralized at the point of conception, the shockwaves released from it logically will be nowhere near as powerful as what they've been shown to be, and it would possibly not even release shockwaves at all. But All Might's blows still can release shockwaves, and they pack a whopping amount of force. That's why I've said All Might's punches are superior to nukes, and that's why I accredited the reasoning for that argument to his shockwaves.

I'm not arguing that All Might's punch is more powerful than a nuke that doesn't "detonate properly" per se, but I couldn't find a better example of a suppressed nuclear explosion than the one I gave you.

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#143 Posted by Pipxeroth (9363 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower:

-All Might's shockwave was able to annihilate city blocks in spite of the fact his punch was met with comparable force in the form of One For All's punch, meaning the momentum and power of his blow was more or less canceled out. The shockwaves that resulted from their attack still destroyed jaw-dropping amounts of infrastructure even after the force of his blow was effectively negated. In other words, he was able to destroy multiple city blocks from the force of a punch that was nearly reduced to zero of it's potential power.

I know nothing about MHA so please tell me if this is something specific to that character, but from a general standpoint that logic is just objectively wrong. The fact that his punch collided with someone else's does not in any way "negate" the force of the punch in a manner that would cause the resultant shockwaves to become significantly less powerful. Like this is really, really basic physics man. I don't know if you're maybe trying to overthink it or what, but the fact that it's two punches colliding simply put just means there is double the force going into those shockwaves, so the feat is just straight up less impressive than I even initially thought. I highly suggest you read up on Newton's Third Law if you can't understand this.

If the explosion of a nuke (or any bomb) is effectively neutralized at the point of conception, the shockwaves released from it logically will be nowhere near as powerful as what they've been shown to be, and it would possibly not even release shockwaves at all. But All Might's blows still can release shockwaves, and they pack a whopping amount of force. That's why I've said All Might's punches are superior to nukes, and that's why I accredited the reasoning for that argument to his shockwaves.

I'm not arguing that All Might's punch is more powerful than a nuke that doesn't "detonate properly" per se, but I couldn't find a better example of a suppressed nuclear explosion than the one I gave you.

Not at all the same thing at all as two punches colliding.

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#144 Posted by KanyeCosby (7248 posts) - - Show Bio

The only reason this isn’t a complete stomp is because of Superman’s speed advantage. All Might still wins though.

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#145 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@pipxeroth:

I know nothing about MHA so please tell me if this is something specific to that character, but from a general standpoint that logic is just objectively wrong. The fact that his punch collided with someone else's does not in any way "negate" the force of the punch in a manner that would cause the resultant shockwaves to become significantly less powerful.

It could be objectively wrong if that EXACT thing didn't literally already happen the previous time All Might and All For One matched fist.

No Caption Provided

In this scan All Might negated the force of AFO's attack with the sheer force of an equal punch. The blows canceled out, so the resulting shockwaves carry an infinitesimally small fraction of the attacks original power and force. Think of when Goku matched Beerus' punch in SSG and canceled it out.

Like this is really, really basic physics man.

Yeah, because fictional characters can't defy physics right?

I don't know if you're maybe trying to overthink it or what, but the fact that it's two punches colliding simply put just means there is double the force going into those shockwaves, so the feat is just straight up less impressive than I even initially thought. I highly suggest you read up on Newton's Third Law if you can't understand this.

In the real world that would make sense, but the opposite is happening here as was stated and shown. It's not my fault it doesn't match real world logic either; take up your grievances with Horikoshi.

Not at all the same thing at all as two punches colliding.

I can acknowledge the difference in the examples I used. But at the end of the day, the fact of the matter is All Might can destroy multiple city blocks with the shockwave of a punch who's force was negated, since it was met with another punch of equal power (and in the series, punches of equal power between All Might and AFO have been shown to negate/cancel out). Nukes can destroy multiple city blocks with their shockwaves, but I still highly doubt they can release powerful shockwaves at all if the force of their explosions are effectively neutralized in some way.

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#146 Posted by Gaoron (9131 posts) - - Show Bio

The only reason this isn’t a complete stomp is because of Superman’s speed advantage. All Might still wins though.

The only reason this isn’t a complete stomp is because of Superman’s speed advantage. All Might still wins though.

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#147 Posted by Pipxeroth (9363 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower:

It could be objectively wrong if that EXACT thing didn't literally already happen the previous time All Might and All For One matched fist.

Well that's why I asked whether it was something specific to the character or not, which it seems to be. Either that or the writer for MHA doesn't like logic.

In this scan All Might negated the force of AFO's attack with the sheer force of an equal punch. The blows canceled out, so the resulting shockwaves carry an infinitesimally small fraction of the attacks original power and force.

Well all it says is that All Might negated AFOs punch with sheer force. I'm not entirely sure how that's supposed to work or what it means, if the punches clashing completely cancelled each other out like you're saying there wouldn't be any shockwaves in the first place. Where are you getting this "infinitesimally small fraction of the original power" from? How do you know the shockwaves aren't unaffected by this 'negation' and it's only negating the physical damage to each character? Are there more instances of this occurring that give a better idea? It seems to me you're making a lot of unsupported assumptions.

Honestly that scan to me it just looks like he's saying the force of his punch was completely overwhelmed by All Might's, but I'll take your word for it since like I said I know nothing about the verse. What I am curious about though is whether this is a two-way thing? I see absolutely nothing suggesting that All Might's punch was negated by anything. And if that's not the case then at the end of the day it's a combined feat anyway.

Think of when Goku matched Beerus' punch in SSG and canceled it out.

What makes you think I have any idea what this is? Lol

Yeah, because fictional characters can't defy physics right?

That's why I asked whether it was something specific to the character or not. I haven't seen a single comic where two punches colliding "cancels each other out".

In the real world that would make sense, but the opposite is happening here as was stated and shown. It's not my fault it doesn't match real world logic either; take up your grievances with Horikoshi.

...

since it was met with another punch of equal power (and in the series, punches of equal power between All Might and AFO have been shown to negate/cancel out)

Again, you should have led with this.

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#148 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@pipxeroth:

Well that's why I asked whether it was something specific to the character or not, which it seems to be. Either that or the writer for MHA doesn't like logic.

Writers usually don't take in physics into account when they create elaborate fight scenarios.

Well all it says is that All Might negated AFOs punch with sheer force. I'm not entirely sure how that's supposed to work or what it means, if the punches clashing completely cancelled each other out like you're saying there wouldn't be any shockwaves in the first place.

In the real world, no there wouldn't. But we see shockwaves on-panel, do we not? Even in the scan I posted where AFO explicitly says his blow was negated, we see a gust of wind form behind All Might and then some other air pressure traveling through building rubble. Personally I can think of an explanation or two to describe this phenomenon, but to avoid speculation and stick to the facts, All Might can destroy multiple city blocks with a punch who's force was [virtually] cancelled out. There's no proof that the same can be said for a nuke if it's explosion is neutralized.

Where are you getting this "infinitesimally small fraction of the original power" from?

If the force of the punch if negated/cancelled out, then a resulting shockwave should carry over almost no power from the original punch.

How do you know the shockwaves aren't unaffected by this 'negation' and it's only negating the physical damage to each character?

Because damage was actually released. In the instance were All Might and All For One created the massive shockwave, AFO states that all the force All Might unleashed was subsequently reflected back onto him. Key word unleashed (released in other translations).

No Caption Provided

Another translation says damage. I'm not saying force=damage, but force causes damage, so if All Might released forced then damage wasn't negated. You can even see All Might's arm spurting blood as all the released damage goes back into him.

Are there more instances of this occurring that give a better idea? It seems to me you're making a lot of unsupported assumptions.

Another instance of what, them matching blows and something similar happening? If so yes.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Honestly that scan to me it just looks like he's saying the force of his punch was completely overwhelmed by All Might's,

He did not overwhelm it. Another translation says the blows were cancelled out.

No Caption Provided

What I am curious about though is whether this is a two-way thing? I see absolutely nothing suggesting that All Might's punch was negated by anything. And if that's not the case then at the end of the day it's a combined feat anyway.

AFO (when using quirks) is All Might's peer in strength. All the time they've matched blows, they've been equal.

That's why I asked whether it was something specific to the character or not. I haven't seen a single comic where two punches colliding "cancels each other out".

Well, now you have I guess.

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#149 Posted by Pipxeroth (9363 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower: Okay thanks for the other scans, but this because this is becoming more and more confusing (especially since I haven't read the series).

One of the scans you're showing is saying that it's just reversing the impact not negating it. If the force of the punch is reflected back, then it's not being cancelled out it's being, well, reflected, which means the actual force of the punch and the subsequent shockwaves isn't affected. In fact that's actually the scan from the punch in question, and I just checked another translation which was posted on this page which says "Impact recoil... all your power's gonna come crashing back on you". So again, where is the evidence the punch was negated in that particular instance?

If you're trying to use the other scans as evidence then they're just contradicting, if the punch is being negated/cancelled as in it basically never happened then their wouldn't be any shockwaves. If the kinetic force of the punch is completely negated but there are still shockwaves how are you supposed to have any idea on how strong they are in comparison to what they would have been if the punch wasn't negated? I've still seen literally no reasoning for where you're coming up with this "infinitesimally small fraction" of what there would be otherwise.

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#150 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@pipxeroth:

One of the scans you're showing is saying that it's just reversing the impact not negating it. If the force of the punch is reflected back, then it's not being cancelled out it's being, well, reflected, which means the actual force of the punch and the subsequent shockwaves isn't affected. In fact that's actually the scan from the punch in question, and I just checked another translation which was posted on this page which says "Impact recoil... all your power's gonna come crashing back on you". So again, where is the evidence the punch was negated in that particular instance?

It's reasonable to assume their punches cancel out every time they match fists, since we know what happens when they match fists due to their blows being equal. However, even in the instance where AFO states All Might cancelled out his blow, we still see air pressure and shockwaves forming around them. The instance where they created a multi-city block shockwave is the same thing but on a higher scale. Yes their punches cancelled out, but some shockwaves and damage are still visibly seen like it was the time it was stated to negate.

Impact Recoil is just AFO reversing all the force All Might releases back inside of him. We've established that even when their hits negate, a shockwave is still depicted. Whatever collateral is shown in spite of negation is just reversed back into AM through that technique, so it doesn't conflict with the negation aspect of the exchange at all. And even if it did, I hope you realize that would actually support my main, overarching argument right? What nuke you know can release shockwaves at all if it's explosion (the source of the shockwave) is never expelled fully, but rather reflected and reversed inwardly at the moment of inception?