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#1 Posted by assemblesquad (2918 posts) - - Show Bio
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VS

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Round 1 Takes place at the arena

Round 2 Takes place at the final fight in Terminator Genisys

Alita with her beserker body and armed her sword

In character

Bloodlust on

Win by any means

Who wins?

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#4 Posted by AllHellKingDox (318 posts) - - Show Bio

How does she harm him?

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#5 Edited by assemblesquad (2918 posts) - - Show Bio

@allhellkingdox: her sword that can cut molecular level. But I don't know if John can tank that weapon?

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#6 Posted by Daisy_Johnson (1247 posts) - - Show Bio

Alita stomps!



@allhellkingdox: her sword that can cut molecular level. But I don't know if John can tank that weapon?


I don't recall him tanking anything close to that. He was impressive though. Doesn't John have a simulair adaptive body that can regenerate akin to hers, just not at the same level?

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#7 Posted by TourneyMaster (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

@assemblesquad: @daisy_johnson: how is a molecule cutting wepon hurts him? John trans nanometal can regen Deadpool style.in seconds with no loss of mass unlike T-100p.

So she cuts him so what? He reforms and replaces loss nano metal. Then stomps her.

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#8 Posted by assemblesquad (2918 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Edited by TourneyMaster (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

@assemblesquad: To break down his healing feats we must delve into what he is stated to be made of, and then the feats to show how it works.

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Pops explains what Machine Phase Matter is. Turns a flesh and blood human into a unique living metal hybrid. Transforming the body on the cellular level.

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The only known weakness of Machine Phase Matter is magnetic fields that keep his body from scattering and reforming.

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John has tank his own weakness of magnets by tanking dozens of Magnetic Bullets. He was also then impaled by a large magnet projectile, and was pinned to the large monitors. With the building's electrical current pouring on him heavily.

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Sarah shoots John with 3 shots from a grenade launcher. He walks through it fine.

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After the grenades, Sarah blows up the whole Bunker. The explosion is enough to bust the bunker, with T-3000 walking out of it fine.

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This plasma like laser is able to melt steel like butter on contact. Hitting John three times with it, yet it never manages to cut him through. He is able to then regen from the damage fine instantly.

Cutting him makes no sense when he can simply "Phase" around her attacks anyway.

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John Phases through both Sarah and the steel grill walkway to get at Reese.

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Good showing of both speed, and use of phasing. Dodging, and flowing through Pops attacks, but also phases through Pops body like a intangible being damn near.

Im not sure why cutting him will matter before he forms a blade and stabs her in the head.

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#10 Edited by assemblesquad (2918 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Edited by reikai (7477 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster: The Damascus blade possesses a monomolecular edge. Meaning it can literally cut through the space between molecules. On top of that, Alita can also generate and manipulate plasma with her Berserker Body. Which includes infusing plasma into the Damascus. Which means she's not just cleanly cutting him apart, it's basically like a lightsaber and she's actually destroying John's machine matter.

They didn't get to show it much in the movie, but if Alita wanted to, she could emit plasma from every part of her body. Basically John wouldn't be able to touch her without watching himself disintegrate on contact. Eventually John is just going to be whittle down until there's not enough left to pull himself back together from.

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#12 Posted by assemblesquad (2918 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: So would a T-1000 be a tougher combatant to Alita?

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#13 Posted by MUVDCU (978 posts) - - Show Bio

@assemblesquad: Her Plasma Blade starts at around 15000 Celsius which is over 27000 degrees Fahrenheit. The molten metal that killed T-1000 was around 2500 degrees. So her sword would not only cut him but Mess him up really really badly too he may not be able to reform properly. I read the manga as a kid and have been reading it again to catch up to the newer mangas she's in. She gets pretty damn ridiculous.

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#14 Posted by assemblesquad (2918 posts) - - Show Bio

@muvdcu: Hmm, so i think she can decimate other Terminators.

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#15 Posted by MUVDCU (978 posts) - - Show Bio

@assemblesquad: Yeah that and she is dramatically faster than them. She's shown physical strength greater than them too. She could literally kill T-850s barehanded with a single decent strike H2H.

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#16 Posted by TourneyMaster (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: your logic works on a T 1000. That wont work on John. T 100 is able to lose mass. Thus why Acid and molten metal can kill it. Machine phase matter clearly was able to remake itself. No loss of mass. This is stated as Pops said no weakness except Magnetics. Otherwise Pops would have smelted or acid the guy like he did T 1000. It took a time displacement field that disentigrates all non living matter to kill John.

I dont see how she kills John in a timely manner when you yourself said she never shown a steady stream of plasma vent from all sides. You saying she can do this then show her doing that. Otherwise John reforms his living metal that reform the loss mass from the plasma weapon Pops used, and breaks her body well before the time to whittle him down.

I also take the leader of the human resistance tactical choices over Alita too tbh.

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#17 Edited by TourneyMaster (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

@muvdcu: this aint manga though so why are you using Manga feats? Manga feats have no bearing on Live Action versions. What kind of shitty logic is that?

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#18 Posted by TourneyMaster (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

@assemblesquad: movie version is shit to Manga one. Dont let them mislead ya on the different versions they are stating here.

Also T-Infinity would decimate Battle Angel period. The damn thing straight manipulates time and time hops everywhere on a whim.

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#19 Posted by reikai (7477 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster: That's a NLF and unproven. Plasma would disintegrate matter, thus separating it morso than merely using a magnetic field would. And John can't just create matter from nothing. It has to come from somewhere. If it's just separated by bullets, then it's not being destroyed, and he can reform. Plasma would destroy it and thus John would need something else to reconstruct the missing mass to his body.

This is what we call "Idiot Logic". In where the Writers believe their audience are all idiots. The whole magnetic field thing doesn't make sense. If John can be effectively dismantled or broken down to the point he stops functioning by separating enough of his matter through magnets, the same should be true regardless of the method used. The plasma wouldn't just separate his matter, it would destroy it and decrease his overall mass. Thus rendering him inert or destroying him.

And he's not using manga feats. Alita was straight up curbstomping a room full of cyborg hunters. In her Civilian Body. Which is vastly inferior to her Berserker Body. And that is after defeating and killing Gruishka's companions and smashing his arm off.

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#20 Posted by MUVDCU (978 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster: I never used her manga feats lol. I just said she gets crazy. They didn't go into details but her sword clearly cuts through them like nothing and she was cutting through the Cyborgs she fought that were clearly stronger than T-850s with her bare hands.

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#21 Posted by buildhare (8714 posts) - - Show Bio

Alita can't do anything to him at all.

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#22 Posted by Trixie (998 posts) - - Show Bio

we all lose for watching those movies 😫

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#23 Edited by MUVDCU (978 posts) - - Show Bio

@trixie: IDK to me Alita was Awesome. The only parts I hated were The Love interest.

Everyone applauded at a certain time when that was over lol.

It was awesome.

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#24 Edited by Daisy_Johnson (1247 posts) - - Show Bio

@muvdcu said:

@trixie: IDK to me Alita was Awesome. The only parts I hated were The Love interest.

Everyone applauded at a certain time when that was over lol.

It was awesome.

I think he was referring to anything after Terminator 2: Judgement Day xD Alita only has one movie, and it was amazing!!! Terminator has "movies".

Over half the theater stayed post credits to see nothing. More than the average Marvel movie actually, which actually has something. I think it's a safe assumption that the audience love Alita and want more! The problem is that Alita is suffering from poor marketing that does not reflect the quality of the movie or give any interest to the story. The people who see it love it, and a lot of people aren't going due to assumptions made by the trailer that are down right silly.

As far as the love interest stuff goes. It's corny, but absolutely necessary and I thought it was fantastic. Alita is character who's actions and choices are 100% motivated and driven by love and compassion. She's very emotionally frail and I would argue it's one of the strong points that makes her relatable and the movie so good in the first place! It makes all the action scenes so much better as she's so driven by that love which will lead to dark isolation and numbness in future films as Nova makes good on his threats and promises. Remove that stuff from the film and Alita no longer works as a character.

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#25 Posted by UnknownDarkstar (22 posts) - - Show Bio

Alita

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#26 Edited by MUVDCU (978 posts) - - Show Bio

@daisy_johnson: They made her swoon way too much over him IMO. She wasn't all up in his ass in the Manga although she did fall in love with him. Also he was less interested in her in the manga.

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#27 Posted by Daisy_Johnson (1247 posts) - - Show Bio

@muvdcu said:

@daisy_johnson: They made her swoon way too much over him IMO. She wasn't all up in his ass in the Manga although she did fall in love with him. Also he was less interested in her in the manga.

I haven't read Gunnm but I'm really debating it. The movie has made me obsessed with her and the entire universe. Almost everything was perfect to me and it hit all the right notes. A part of me also doesn't want to spoil the future of the films knowing how faithful it is, even with the major changes to characters like Nova and what not. I already know I'mma cry after what happens to Ido, Christoph Waltz was amazing!

At the same time, the Fox Disney deal has me scared shitless! So many things in the film won't fly for them and I fear they may cancel future films. I'm actually freaking out over this and would rather have more Alita than X-men in the MCU tbh.

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#28 Posted by Nervedamage (837 posts) - - Show Bio

I heard T-3000 is unable to assume his human form after getting hit with that laser cutter because the laser destroyed some of his machine phase matter. If this is true than Alita clearly has the edge in this fight since she can just whittle him down till he's unable to properly regenerate anymore.

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#29 Edited by TourneyMaster (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai:

That's a NLF and unproven.

So is you suggesting Alita will just vent Plasma the whole fight. She clearly cannot.

Plasma would disintegrate matter, thus separating it morso than merely using a magnetic field would. And John can't just create matter from nothing. It has to come from somewhere.

We already seen john hit by fire explosive bunker busting explosion with no effect. We seen straight electricity burns do nothing. We also seen a laser that melts steel like nothing on contact damage John, and he loses no mass. He reforms the damage and seems to replace the mass. And why not? His metal is not just metal, its phase matter and can turn to flesh to a degree.

If it's just separated by bullets, then it's not being destroyed, and he can reform. Plasma would destroy it and thus John would need something else to reconstruct the missing mass to his body.

John been hit by plasma already like burning attacks and clearly loss matter only to be whole again as it reform. We seen this already. Saying she will do better with a sword is just silly.

This is what we call "Idiot Logic". In where the Writers believe their audience are all idiots. The whole magnetic field thing doesn't make sense.

Oh freaking brother, your whole argument stops dead here. You dont like the bullshit science so you wish to ignore it. Wow. I dont like Peter bitten by a radioactive Spider I dont dismiss him in a debate as a result. Shit.

And he's not using manga feats. Alita was straight up curbstomping a room full of cyborg hunters. In her Civilian Body. Which is vastly inferior to her Berserker Body. And that is after defeating and killing Gruishka's companions and smashing his arm off.

He stated Manga feats when talking how hot the plasma burns. In the movie its never stated how hot the blades are from what I seen.

@muvdcu:

Her Plasma Blade starts at around 15000 Celsius which is over 27000 degrees Fahrenheit. The molten metal that killed T-1000 was around 2500 degrees. So her sword would not only cut him but Mess him up really really badly too he may not be able to reform properly. I read the manga as a kid and have been reading it again to catch up to the newer mangas she's in. She gets pretty damn ridiculous.

His words underline. Clearly the numbers are Manga only, not in the film. Unless he is making numbers up base on what he thinks the plasma burns at, in which case I can make numbers up for the laser plasma device T-800 use. Hell I can state T-800 tank plasma at that heat too. Becuase the stated PLASMA Wepaons of T-800s and Tx are used all the time without killinng the Bots :/

@muvdcu said:

@tourneymaster: I never used her manga feats lol. I just said she gets crazy. They didn't go into details but her sword clearly cuts through them like nothing and she was cutting through the Cyborgs she fought that were clearly stronger than T-850s with her bare hands.

Stronger my ass.

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T-800 smashes through a steel vault door.

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T-800 grabs and holds 11 tons of school bus with one hand from falling.

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T-800 holds a hydraulic powered, military grade blast door from closing.

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T-800 holds open two solid steel blast doors powered by powerful hydraulics for a short time.

T-800s at times are pushing several tons in some feats. As for durability waaaay better than what I saw.

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T-800 rammed by 50+ tons of semi truck with propane tank attacked, moving over 50 MPH. Suffers only a damage leg.

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T-800 shrugs off multiple 203mm Grenades.

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T-800 caught in the propane explosion of a whole propane tanker worth of fuel. No real damage.

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T-800 withstands the highly corrosive acid that melted Liquid Metal with ease.

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T-800 tanks multiple rounds of plasma from the mini Hunter Killers.

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Due to the added Cobalt in the Hyper Allow, T-850 is able to survive the heat damage and force of impact of the TX Plasma Canon.

I dont see Alita bots taking half the explosions, physical blows, or "plasma" weapons that T-800s and T-850s tank. So yeah, bullshit right there.

I heard T-3000 is unable to assume his human form after getting hit with that laser cutter because the laser destroyed some of his machine phase matter. If this is true than Alita clearly has the edge in this fight since she can just whittle him down till he's unable to properly regenerate anymore.

Thats some made up shit right there. He never went human form because he had no reason too in the fight. He was never stated damage either. Also how long does whittling take. Assume for a second the false info she can whittle him and he cannot replace his matter which is already debunk, assume it works that way, how does she whittle him? By him standing still? He is not going to fight back? She would have to slash him 100s if not 1000s of times to whittle him. He needs a few stabs to win. He cuts through Hyper allow with his blades like nothing.

Wow. Great argument and way to put out mis info.

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#30 Posted by TourneyMaster (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

Alita can't do anything to him at all.

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#31 Posted by xMangog__Beastx (4729 posts) - - Show Bio

Alita can't do anything to him at all.

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#32 Posted by GeorgeWBush (12187 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemate???

He’s never going to tag her and she probably can’t damage him

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#34 Edited by droden (1 posts) - - Show Bio

alita punches through the T-3000 like its tissue paper. even if we give it godly regen she will punch it into tiny bits and then surround it in an electromagnetic bubble and inject plasma into the bubble until the T-3000 disintegrates beyond its ability to regenerate or uses up all its regen mass. the t3000 wont survive 100k degree plasma. ill even grant you to buff its toughness to where she can only knock it around with her fists she will still cut it to ribbons with her plasma enhanced blade and then disintegrate it. she is far faster and a more skilled opponent (the t3000 was getting knocked around by humans and a slow as molasses t-800) and the technology levels are too far removed for it to hack or influence her in some way. a more fair fight would be the tuned agent alita where she doesnt have crazy plasma or regen but that wasnt the setup here.

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#35 Posted by tethadam (583 posts) - - Show Bio

How many tons can Alita lift?