Alex Mercer vs. T-1000

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MonsterObsessor

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#1  Edited By MonsterObsessor

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vs.
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The_Assassin_

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#2  Edited By The_Assassin_

Gonna have to go with Mercer on this, Because the T-1000 was beaten by a "lesser" model.

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EpitomeofCool

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#3  Edited By EpitomeofCool

t-1000.....

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Ultimate Joker

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#4  Edited By Ultimate Joker

What weapons does the T-1000 have at it's disposal? Are vehicles such as helicopters or trucks available for either character to use? Is it purely hand-to-hand? What's the location? Is it a cat and mouse hunt with either one or both attempting to hide from the other, and infiltrate some building?

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venomoushatred1001

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Mercer

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weaponmaster

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#6  Edited By weaponmaster

Gonna choose the T-1000 for this fight. Alex' flesh and mortality are his achilles heel here. The T-1000 will just keep on attacking until Alex is dead.
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Full_Spectrum

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#7  Edited By Full_Spectrum

alex's flesh can stop artillery rounds. i'm doubting the terminator can put a dent in him. blades and bullets are all but useless against him. on the other hand, mercer could just club the terminator until he started glitching.

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Ultimate Joker

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#8  Edited By Ultimate Joker
@Full_Spectrum said:

" alex's flesh can stop artillery rounds. i'm doubting the terminator can put a dent in him. blades and bullets are all but useless against him. on the other hand, mercer could just club the terminator until he started glitching. "

Sorry, but "club him until he starts glitching" is a HUGE assumption. Being frozen in liquid nitrogen vs. getting slammed and smashed a bunch are two totally different things. I'm going to copy/paste parts of a message I posted on a different site in hopes that I can at least keep these baseless assumptions to a minimum, but also state who I feel has the upperhand.

Notice: Please read the following with full knowledge that it's responding to a totally different site and comments. (I'm just too lazy to re-word it is all.) =p


Let's start with simple factors here, and those would be each character's basic abilities and traits.


{Strength}: I recall someone in here stating that the T-1000 was as strong or close to Alex Mercer's strength. Hell no. If that were the case, would the T-1000 not have just lifted up the cop car John Connor, Sarah, and the T-800 were in and spiked it into the pavement? Would the T-1000 not have crushed the T-800 like a pancake? The T-800s do not weigh more than or even close to equal a car, because if they did then they'd crush the very vehicles (motorcycles/cars/trucks) they sit in/on. Because the fact the T-1000 and T-800 had close to equal strength, but neither weighed /that/ much, it was a fairly even hand-to-hand encounter each time. The T-1000 was only ever able to slam the lesser machine into walls and stuff, and only by a combination of a spike, heavy crane, and moving gears does it inflict any true damage to it. 

The T-1000 was just as equally tossed around the place by the early series of Terminator, getting punched and slammed into -- and /through/ -- walls. The T-800, while impossibly strong by human standards, is also not strong enough to lift up a car, let alone run with it in it's arms and scale buildings, but the two machines struggled with one another regardless. There is a _HUGE_ strength gap in this battle here. A much better comparison in strength for Mercer would be the Grey Hulk or perhaps Carnage (a Spider-Man villain). Mercer was able to pound buildings into the ground, punch holes in Abrams tanks, and much more. The T-1000 never managed a feat even REMOTELY close to this, and had it been on such a level, John Connor would have been dead in minutes even with the T-800 protecting him.



{Speed}: This one isn't /quite/ as mismatched as strength, but again, Mercer takes the win in this department hands down. The T-1000 (or rather Robert Patrick) always had a wonderful sprint in T2, and I loved watching that killing machine chase after it's target because even when I knew the outcome, it still looked like it WOULD catch up. The problem here is when we compare not only the vehicles and circumstances each character was in, but the agility that was entered into the mix as well. I am no expert on vehicles by any stretch of the imagination, but when a cop car going backwards can keep the T-1000 just out of reach, while cars of various kinds driving /forwards/ can't outpace Mercer, then I think I can easily assume who is faster just from that example. Granted, the T-1000 was also being impeded by gunfire from both Sarah and the T-800 (Uncle Bob if you want to be silly). This, however, is a weak excuse for making the argument that the T-1000 under more normal circumstances would have caught up to, say, Mercer if it were a situation like that.

The fact is Mercer is far more agile and has the unique ability of being very hard to stop from moving, even when entire BUILDINGS are in his way. The 'man' can scale the building in a matter of seconds, running up the side like he was running on the ground. He can also stay in the air for ridiculous amounts of time, allowing even more options for travelling while the T-1000 never displayed such abilities. If it had such capabilities, it would have continued chasing after our heroes in T2 regardless. Instead, it slows down to a walk, recovers the chunk of itself that was blown off by the 10 gauge shotgun, then turns in the opposite direction to gather any intel and transportation it can manage so that it can reacquire it's target at a later time. If it had been Mercer that was chasing after them, they would have all been terminated back inside the mental institute in the hallway. Even granting that they still somehow manage to escape to outside in the cop car, Mercer would have gotten ahold of their vehicle one way or the other and smashed it into the ground.


{Endurance}: This is where things actually get interesting. For starters, Mercer cannot harm or absorb the T-1000. At best, he can rip it to shreds and try to keep the pieces away from each other, else it will merely reform and resume it's attack. Going from what we've seen thus far, it takes a helluva lot of stuff to hurt Mercer, and only a few very specific things to truly damage or stop the T-1000. Molten steel and liquid nitrogen were the only two things that did ANYTHING of any note against the mimetic polyalloy Terminator. Even then, at most the freezing only caused it to glitch to a degree, which at most made it slower, weaker at disguising itself, and cause minor glitches of no real note in other departments. (It's top half was the police officer outfit from the start, while the lower half was the biker cop look. Fun little factoid there for anyone that didn't notice.) Aside from these things, everything else did not actually damage it.

However, we must look at it from a diffent angle. It is true that only a small number of things can damage/kill the T-1000, while a greater number of things can damage/kill Mercer. The problem is that the things that don't kill/hurt the T-1000 still slow it down or even stun it. It's multiple encounters with the T-800 are evidence of this. Sufficiently sustained gunfire can even KO it for a few moments. Not counting the final battle when it was glitched, the T-1000 was KO'ed at least twice by the lesser Terminator. Once during their first encounter (via the 1887 Winchester) and a second time during the tanker chase (via a full magazine from a CAR-15 assault rifle straight to the chest and face). These instances were extremely rare and I'd even be willing to accept the argument that it was for plot reasons, but I'd have to hear a good explanation to truly buy it. Everything else made it flinch or stagger for a brief moment.

Mercer, on the other hand, has tanked shells from Abrams, missiles fired from combat choppers, grenades, rockets, heavy machine gun fire, and continued to run at nearly top speed. At most, he's been tossed around a bit and injured, but any of these things would splatter the T-1000 and force it to reform. Case in point, one grenade round blew it to pieces, and one shotgun blast straight to the head split it in two and caused it to fall down for a moment. Alex does not suffer from these weaknesses. He's pretty stout.


The best way to temporarily win this battle is to simply grab the T-1000 -- just like the T-800 did numerous times in the movie -- and throw the liquid metal assassin far away with all his strength. Thus we have a BFR (Battlefield removal) and a temporary victory, though the T-1000 will sooner or later return. The T-1000 has a better chance of inflicting actual damage on Mercer, however. Stabbing him, hitting him with plenty force. It _can_ hurt Mercer, but Mercer is rarely a sitting duck and has access to numerous different methods of attack, as well as various mutations. Mercer can naturally heal to a point, and he can play keep-away far better than the liquid death machine. Thus we MUST assume that the T-1000 would have gained access to some forms of weapons. If this is purely a melee battle, then we're going to be waiting for someone to win for a long, looong time.

Short of Mercer (magically) whipping out liquid nitrogen or lava (LOL) he has no real means of terminating or even HURTING the T-1000. Despite all of the advantages he has over the machine, he just can't kill it unless he somehow gets his hands on a very few specific weapons - *sigh* or pushes him into the volcano. *rolls eyes* He could try experimenting against it, but then again so would the T-1000. I avoided talking about the two characters' stealth/infiltration capabilities because the two of them wouldn't need them in straight-up combat with no other bystanders around, but I think a better scenario would be a cat and mouse chase. Have Mercer hiding from it in a limited location, and arm the T-1000 with some weaponry that can be effective against his target. Give him some electrical weapons (I read the Alex vs. Cole battle and saw the outcome of that one; very interesting debate) and access to plenty of vehicles/weapons. Force Mercer to have to use his other abilities and give the T-1000 an advantage in weapons and equipment. Handicap Alex so this can become a much more even battle. Now THAT would be an epic battle rather than this melee fight in a volcano nonsense.   
   
There. That's my two cents.
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JohnnyZ256

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GhostRider2

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Alex, guns really can't put him down.

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GodTriggerHulk

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I'm gonna call it a stalemate.

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Pokergeist

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#12  Edited By Pokergeist

I'm gonna call it a stalemate.

Agreed, neither can hurt the other.

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OpCharybdis

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I'm just gonna say Alex, an here's why.

The T-1000 has to have ALL of his matter and mass to keep his shape. It's confirmed that he has to hollow himself in order to impersonate a large man. If any part of his liquid state was to be somehow destroyed, then he would have to live with a piece of his face (in human form) missing. Alex...Not so much. HE was able to completely regenerate his entire body after being decimated by a nuclear explosion. Plus, there's no way T can actually totally destroy him. The only way I think is to toss him into a volcano. Considering that Alex can throw a 70-ton tank 5 city blocks, after carrying it up the side of a building, then there is NO way T is physically strong enough to do that to him. Not to mention that with Alex containing all of those he's consumed density in his body, and considering that he's done that to a couple hundred people at this point (the average adult male weighs around 125-160 pounds, that's A LOT of weight added to Alex), then T probably couldn't even throw him anyway.

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Pokergeist

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alex's flesh can stop artillery rounds. i'm doubting the terminator can put a dent in him. blades and bullets are all but useless against him. on the other hand, mercer could just club the terminator until he started glitching.

Nope T-1000 wins fairly easy.

I'm just gonna say Alex, an here's why.

The T-1000 has to have ALL of his matter and mass to keep his shape. It's confirmed that he has to hollow himself in order to impersonate a large man. If any part of his liquid state was to be somehow destroyed, then he would have to live with a piece of his face (in human form) missing. Alex...Not so much. HE was able to completely regenerate his entire body after being decimated by a nuclear explosion. Plus, there's no way T can actually totally destroy him. The only way I think is to toss him into a volcano. Considering that Alex can throw a 70-ton tank 5 city blocks, after carrying it up the side of a building, then there is NO way T is physically strong enough to do that to him. Not to mention that with Alex containing all of those he's consumed density in his body, and considering that he's done that to a couple hundred people at this point (the average adult male weighs around 125-160 pounds, that's A LOT of weight added to Alex), then T probably couldn't even throw him anyway.

Whats Alex doing when T-1000 coats his body inside and out?

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So Alex throwing T-1000?

Your high.

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MonsterStomp

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#15  Edited By MonsterStomp

Oh how I hate the T-1000.

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DireDrill

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@cadencev2: Alex is stronger than T-1000, that trick only works on people who are weaker than you.

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Pokergeist

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@cadencev2: Alex is stronger than T-1000, that trick only works on people who are weaker than you.

And Strength matters why?

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Alex is punching Liquid Metal. His Strength is as useless as hitting water!

T-1000 coats Alex and it is eternal Stalemate at best. NOTHING Alex can do is a win.

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DireDrill

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@cadencev2: Again, that coating trick only works on people who are weaker than you. Trying to do that against a 20-ish tonner minimum who can also shapeshift would result in nothing more than a minor hindrance.

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Pokergeist

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@cadencev2: Again, that coating trick only works on people who are weaker than you. Trying to do that against a 20-ish tonner minimum who can also shapeshift would result in nothing more than a minor hindrance.

Again, that Coating trick is Liquid. How do you Physically attack Liquid????

You cant.

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Stalemate at best.

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DireDrill

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#20  Edited By DireDrill

It doesn't have to hit it to break free just walk out of the liquid. On the other hand, Mercer could always eat the T-1000 and contain him. I see absolutely no way for the T-1000 to beat Mercer whereas Mercer is smart enough to keep trying things till he triumphs.

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GodTriggerHulk

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@diredrill: I really don't think anyone wants the T-1000 inside of them.

The T-1000 could try to get Alex to surrender through torture. Surround him and stab him enough and he'd probably get sick of it real quick.

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CaptainDoeo

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GodTriggerHulk

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@captaindoeo: Bio-consume mimectic poly alloy? Yeah, please.

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Pokergeist

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It doesn't have to hit it to break free just walk out of the liquid. On the other hand, Mercer could always eat the T-1000 and contain him. I see absolutely no way for the T-1000 to beat Mercer whereas Mercer is smart enough to keep trying things till he triumphs.

Same thing for T-1000, Mercer eats him and Then what? Metal > Flesh. T-1000 cuts free in a ball of spikes. T-1000 is not a dumb machine, he is the most Intelligent Terminator beside T-Infinity actually. Even TX is not as smart, she beats a T-1002 because she had a Plasma Canon and T-1002 was naked.

Terminators analyze and go through hundreds of possible outcomes before picking one, and does this at the blink of an eye. T-1000 thinks faster than Mercer actually.

The only way to beat T-1000 is Acid, Plasma, and Heat as hot as Lava. Or any Molecule destroying attack.

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CaptainDoeo

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Thinking that poking his insides would faze Mercer.

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Pokergeist

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#26  Edited By Pokergeist

Thinking that poking his insides would faze Mercer.

I think its a fact T-1000 can cut out. Do you really think Mercer Strength and sharp pointy poking will faze T-1000?

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Wolfrazer

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@cadencev2: I deem that water is OP and should be nerfed.

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DireDrill

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You think that he is just flesh? He can form full on metal blades without a problem. If he can form metal appendages he should be able to form a metal capsule to hold him while he figures out what to do with him. After Alex figures out that T-1000 is metal, he'll start thinking of ways in which metal is defeated. Mercer can literally ignore every attack that the T-1000 can throw at him allowing him more than enough time to come up with a solution. Given Acid is a very biological vector, he may go for that.

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reventon64

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#29  Edited By reventon64

Your all forgetting that Alex is very intelligent. Im sure it would be a stalemate for a while until Alex figures out how to beat the T-1000.

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Pokergeist

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You think that he is just flesh? He can form full on metal blades without a problem. If he can form metal appendages he should be able to form a metal capsule to hold him while he figures out what to do with him. After Alex figures out that T-1000 is metal, he'll start thinking of ways in which metal is defeated. Mercer can literally ignore every attack that the T-1000 can throw at him allowing him more than enough time to come up with a solution. Given Acid is a very biological vector, he may go for that.

Prove to me Alex can do that. Wheres the Feats. Cuase I prove with FEATS how T-1000 can win with things he has Done.

Lets not play the "He should be able to even tho he NEVER has" game.

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Elevator is Alex Mercer Insides.

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DireDrill

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Look up his "Blade" ability. It forms a fully metal blade out of his biomass. Can I show that he would consume his foe and form a metal capsule inside him? Nope, but given his shapeshifting abilities and self-mutation it is within the realm of possibility.

You have to show the T-1000 doing anything that Mercer won't just shrug off and continue about his day. His regen, durability, strength and lack of physical weakness allow him to pretty much ignore the T-1000 till he is ready to deal with him. The best that the T-1000 can hope for is simply delaying his destruction.

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Hyperlight

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depends on the setting. Alex is superior to the T-1000 in every way except for the fact that the T-1000 is a lot harder to slop since he can become a malleable liquid at will. If the setting is right that alex can throw him into a volcano or a smelter or something like that. Alex could bfr him... among other things but if he doesnt disintegrate the T-1000 they are going to be fighting for days

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Pokergeist

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Look up his "Blade" ability. It forms a fully metal blade out of his biomass. Can I show that he would consume his foe and form a metal capsule inside him? Nope, but given his shapeshifting abilities and self-mutation it is within the realm of possibility.

You have to show the T-1000 doing anything that Mercer won't just shrug off and continue about his day. His regen, durability, strength and lack of physical weakness allow him to pretty much ignore the T-1000 till he is ready to deal with him. The best that the T-1000 can hope for is simply delaying his destruction.

Which is easy when he Coats Mercer in a Liquid of Metal!

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T-1000 has done this. I have proof he can do this adn will do this.

You base a argument on the fact you believe Mercer could do this. 2 Problems.

1) Mercer may not be able to make a fully encase Capsul, only Blades.

2) Mercer may NEVER be smart enough to think what you just did.

Meanwhile I have the proof showing what T-1000 can and has done.

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DireDrill

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@cadencev2: As I said, that trick won't work on Mercer. He is STRONGER and FASTER than the T-1000, he can literally just walk out of the metal as the T-1000 tries to coat him. That attack is useless on Mercer.

After seeing that the T-1000 feels like metal, he'll figure out what he needs to do.

Alex is an unkillable beast that the T-1000 can only slow down.

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Pokergeist

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#35  Edited By Pokergeist

@cadencev2: As I said, that trick won't work on Mercer. He is STRONGER and FASTER than the T-1000, he can literally just walk out of the metal as the T-1000 tries to coat him. That attack is useless on Mercer.

After seeing that the T-1000 feels like metal, he'll figure out what he needs to do.

Alex is an unkillable beast that the T-1000 can only slow down.

And like wise T-1000 is unkillable without Insane Heat or Acid to kill it.

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DireDrill

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@cadencev2: Again, there is nothing that the T-1000 can do to win but there are ways that Mercer can win.

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Pokergeist

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#37  Edited By Pokergeist

@cadencev2: Again, there is nothing that the T-1000 can do to win but there are ways that Mercer can win.

Untrue again. Mercer in this scenario has no access to Acid or Lava.

If you think a argument is "Mercer carries T-1000 to a volcano" as a argument, then the same can be said of T-1000. He will lure the unintelligent Mercer to a Volcano, and have Mercer splash thru T-1000 and fall in.

See, I can play that game too.

They are stalemated in this scenario.

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Mercer can likely just absorb T1000 because only biological matter can go back in time.

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Equonox

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#39  Edited By Equonox

Hasn't Mercer regenerated from basically nothing? Even if the T-1000 encoats him or whatever, this seems like a stalemate to me...

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DireDrill

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@cadencev2: The problem with that is Mercer is faster and has a number of mobility powers that would allow him to escape death namely his gliding which will be incredibly easy given the thermals being constantly created by the volcano. That strategy would only work on someone who is not faster and more mobile than you are. Mercer is in every way, T-1000's superior. He will eventually find a means of victory and attain it.

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Pokergeist

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#41  Edited By Pokergeist

Mercer can likely just absorb T1000 because only biological matter can go back in time.

..... sad logic......

@cadencev2: The problem with that is Mercer is faster and has a number of mobility powers that would allow him to escape death namely his gliding which will be incredibly easy given the thermals being constantly created by the volcano. That strategy would only work on someone who is not faster and more mobile than you are. Mercer is in every way, T-1000's superior. He will eventually find a means of victory and attain it.

Again that is not the case. This is a stalemate. Unless T-1000 gets his gear of Plasma Weapons from the Future.

Since Mercer needs Bio Mass and Plasma vaporises bio mass......

@equonox said:

Hasn't Mercer regenerated from basically nothing? Even if the T-1000 encoats him or whatever, this seems like a stalemate to me...

Wrong, he needs Bio Mass, when he was nuked by the "outskirts" of the Nuke, heed survived as a clump of meat, he then had to spend much time from Crow to other crap, to regain Bio Mass. No Bio Mass, No Regen.

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MisterGuyMan

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@cadencev2:

I'm sorry that the movies explicitly state that only biological mass can go back in time. It might not make sense to you but that's still there.

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Pokergeist

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@cadencev2:

I'm sorry that the movies explicitly state that only biological mass can go back in time. It might not make sense to you but that's still there.

Not at all. Fact is Mercer needed a Crow to start rebuilding himself. Fact is Mercer needs Biomass or dies in the game. All facts guy.

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#44  Edited By MisterGuyMan

@cadencev2:

Yes and to time travel, the T1000 has to be on some level organic according to the movies. Maybe you didn't understand my point. Only organic materials can go back in time. If the T1000 can go back in time without an organic skin, then it must be organic somehow. Therefore Mercer should be able to absorb him.

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NeonGameWave

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#45  Edited By NeonGameWave

Alex Mercer curbstomps.

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Pokergeist

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@cadencev2:

Yes and to time travel, the T1000 has to be on some level organic according to the movies. Maybe you didn't understand my point. Only organic materials can go back in time. If the T1000 can go back in time without an organic skin, then it must be organic somehow. Therefore Mercer should be able to absorb him.

..... great argument (Sarcasm). T-Infinity Time Travels cuase it uses a Chrono Teleporter that allows Time Travel of non living things and you can travel back!

Seriously, learn the material. The Terminator Time Machine was not only greatly improved, it allows Polly Alloay (Liquid Metal) to go through.

Yet your best argument is something of the Liquid Metal is Organic becuase of a flaw in the "Prototype" Time machine.....

I mean, grasping for straws arnt we?

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DireDrill

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Pokergeist

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#48  Edited By Pokergeist

@cadencev2: You have proof of that?

Of What? The fact that nowhere in the Terminator Universe is it stated Polly Allow is Biological but is flat out stated 4 times as "Liquid Metal"? Cause yes I have all the proof of that. Or T-infinity Chro Teleporting? Yes, look up my Terminator Tribute thread for the scans and references.

That whole argument of T-1000 being absorb is by far the lamest yet to date.

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Thedarklordpandamonium

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@cadencev2: It depends on which mercer we're talking about. In prototype 2, he was harder to destroy than the city itself, or all the previous bosses combined. Hell, according to the developers and Easter eggs he didn't even die when heller absorbed him! He is above death by the end of the second game, as a result of having absorbed so much biomass and so many other evolveds.

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Chibi_cute

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alex drops him on a lava.

problem t-1000?