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#101 Posted by AtPhantom (14434 posts) - - Show Bio
@GreenLantern555 said:

" Considering that thought are merely electrical impulses, with electricity traveling at the speed of light. They are the same. "

Except... they're not.  We don't have lightning shooting through our nerves. There is a massive complex biological machinery at work to transfer data through the brain. At best, impulses are transmitted through the brain at the third of the speed of sound. Nowhere, nowhere near light speed.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_thought
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#102 Posted by GreenLantern555 (2264 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:
" @GreenLantern555 said:

" Considering that thought are merely electrical impulses, with electricity traveling at the speed of light. They are the same. "

Except... they're not.  We don't have lightning shooting through our nerves. There is a massive complex biological machinery at work to transfer data through the brain. At best, impulses are transmitted through the brain at the third of the speed of sound. Nowhere, nowhere near light speed.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_thought "

I just looked at my source and I dug deeper and turns out and it's not very reliable so I apologize for that.  
 
It's believed though that it takes about .2 seconds to think of a thought. To me, that's really fast. And can Wally instantly run the speed of like? Or does it take time for him to get that fast? I really just don't know about that fact.
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#103 Posted by AtPhantom (14434 posts) - - Show Bio
@GreenLantern555: It's cool. 
 
0.2 second is impressive, but by 0.2 seconds Flash can evacuate the entire population of  a small north Korean town facing imminent nuclear catastrophy. (Don't laugh, it happened)
 
And yes, Wally has no thought lag. He doesn't slowly power up his speed or anything, he's always there.
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#104 Posted by velle37 (6117 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:
" @GreenLantern555: It's cool.   0.2 second is impressive, but by 0.2 seconds Flash can evacuate the entire population of  a small north Korean town facing imminent nuclear catastrophy. (Don't laugh, it happened)  And yes, Wally has no thought lag. He doesn't slowly power up his speed or anything, he's always there. "

Where does it say that Wally has no need to accelerate? (not against it, just want to see your source).
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#105 Posted by King Saturn (222789 posts) - - Show Bio
@GreenLantern555 said:
" @King Saturn said:
" @GreenLantern555 said:
" @Zoom said:
" @GreenLantern555 said:
"Nothin is faster than the speed of thought... "
The speed of thought is just electrical impulses in your brain and then your reaction time. There are lots of things faster than that. "
If it's that then both the speed of light and thought should be the same speed. Light isn't faster than light. If anything they are the same.@King Saturn said:
" @GreenLantern555 said:

" @King Saturn said:

" @GreenLantern555 said:

" @King Saturn: Just because there is no prep time doesn't mean that Alan has NO time to quickly think of himself as intangible. It doesn't take long to think so at all. Anyone has time for quick thought since nothing is faster. It also depends on who attacks first. "
you are still missing the fact that Wally is way faster and can react to get inside on Alan Scott for a KO Punch before Alan would think to do anything... he is The Flash thats what his main asset is Super Speed and Reaction Time - the ability to move and react at insane Superhuman Level... now you can keep trying to tell yourself that nothing is faster than thought... but that isnt so... at least not unless the one who is thinking possesses the same level of speed and reaction time to think fast enough to move accordingly...  "
 Lets take this for instance, I can think about you hitting me way faster than you can hit me. Yes, Flash is fast but he isn't faster than the human mind. Reaction time and the thought process are not the same thing. If Alan thinks of something it happens immediately and I'm sure Scott knows exactly what Wally will do next.     "
thats a terrible example... simply because I cant move faster than light... so yeah of course you can think faster than I can hit you... but The Flash can move FTL... and Alan Scott's thought process is not on par with The Flash's speed... thats the whole point... The Flash can move at speeds that Alan would not be able to think to do anything before he got inside on him...  "
Anyone's thought process is at the speed of light (I did research on the speed of thought and found that they are the same) so basically it's whomever gets the first move or thought. "
did you look at the scan I posted ? did you see what Superman was saying about how much faster he could move than the speed of thought ? "
That would also be saying that Superman can also move ten times faster than the speed of light because the speed of light and the speed of sound move at the exact same speed? Are you saying Superman can move that fast? That scan just goes against the laws of speed. "
believe it or not Superman has been shown to Fly several times faster than the Speed of Light... as well as The Flash has traveled several hundred times faster than light... Its Comic Books dude... not actual Real Life Science we are talking about... Comic Book Characters defy the Laws of the Universe all the time... 
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#106 Posted by GreenLantern555 (2264 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn said:
" @GreenLantern555 said:
" @King Saturn said:
" @GreenLantern555 said:
" @Zoom said:
" @GreenLantern555 said:
"Nothin is faster than the speed of thought... "
The speed of thought is just electrical impulses in your brain and then your reaction time. There are lots of things faster than that. "
If it's that then both the speed of light and thought should be the same speed. Light isn't faster than light. If anything they are the same.@King Saturn said:
" @GreenLantern555 said:

" @King Saturn said:

" @GreenLantern555 said:

" @King Saturn: Just because there is no prep time doesn't mean that Alan has NO time to quickly think of himself as intangible. It doesn't take long to think so at all. Anyone has time for quick thought since nothing is faster. It also depends on who attacks first. "
you are still missing the fact that Wally is way faster and can react to get inside on Alan Scott for a KO Punch before Alan would think to do anything... he is The Flash thats what his main asset is Super Speed and Reaction Time - the ability to move and react at insane Superhuman Level... now you can keep trying to tell yourself that nothing is faster than thought... but that isnt so... at least not unless the one who is thinking possesses the same level of speed and reaction time to think fast enough to move accordingly...  "
 Lets take this for instance, I can think about you hitting me way faster than you can hit me. Yes, Flash is fast but he isn't faster than the human mind. Reaction time and the thought process are not the same thing. If Alan thinks of something it happens immediately and I'm sure Scott knows exactly what Wally will do next.     "
thats a terrible example... simply because I cant move faster than light... so yeah of course you can think faster than I can hit you... but The Flash can move FTL... and Alan Scott's thought process is not on par with The Flash's speed... thats the whole point... The Flash can move at speeds that Alan would not be able to think to do anything before he got inside on him...  "
Anyone's thought process is at the speed of light (I did research on the speed of thought and found that they are the same) so basically it's whomever gets the first move or thought. "
did you look at the scan I posted ? did you see what Superman was saying about how much faster he could move than the speed of thought ? "
That would also be saying that Superman can also move ten times faster than the speed of light because the speed of light and the speed of sound move at the exact same speed? Are you saying Superman can move that fast? That scan just goes against the laws of speed. "
believe it or not Superman has been shown to Fly several times faster than the Speed of Light... as well as The Flash has traveled several hundred times faster than light... Its Comic Books dude... not actual Real Life Science we are talking about... Comic Book Characters defy the Laws of the Universe all the time...  "
Haha! Very true, but you'd think that the laws of science somewhat applies, but like you said, it's comics.
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#107 Posted by GreenLantern555 (2264 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:
" @GreenLantern555: It's cool.   0.2 second is impressive, but by 0.2 seconds Flash can evacuate the entire population of  a small north Korean town facing imminent nuclear catastrophy. (Don't laugh, it happened)  And yes, Wally has no thought lag. He doesn't slowly power up his speed or anything, he's always there. "
I'd like to see that as well. I have heard it from several people, like my friends who is HUGE Flash fan, but I've never seen it. I've only seen him speed up to that point.
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#108 Posted by King Saturn (222789 posts) - - Show Bio
@GreenLantern555 said: 
believe it or not Superman has been shown to Fly several times faster than the Speed of Light... as well as The Flash has traveled several hundred times faster than light... Its Comic Books dude... not actual Real Life Science we are talking about... Comic Book Characters defy the Laws of the Universe all the time...  "
Haha! Very true, but you'd think that the laws of science somewhat applies, but like you said, it's comics. "
when it comes to Comic Book Characters especially Powerful Ones the Laws of Science dont really have a great stronghold in value in terms of feats... I mean just look at Superman's high end strength feats... Sneezing Planets away ? Towing a Solar System on a Large Chain ? Pushing Planets like they were Giant Beach Balls ? None of these things are Remotely Possible in the Real World... but they happen quite a bit in comics... 
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#109 Posted by GreenLantern555 (2264 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn said:
" @GreenLantern555 said: 
believe it or not Superman has been shown to Fly several times faster than the Speed of Light... as well as The Flash has traveled several hundred times faster than light... Its Comic Books dude... not actual Real Life Science we are talking about... Comic Book Characters defy the Laws of the Universe all the time...  "
Haha! Very true, but you'd think that the laws of science somewhat applies, but like you said, it's comics. "
when it comes to Comic Book Characters especially Powerful Ones the Laws of Science dont really have a great stronghold in value in terms of feats... I mean just look at Superman's high end strength feats... Sneezing Planets away ? Towing a Solar System on a Large Chain ? Pushing Planets like they were Giant Beach Balls ? None of these things are Remotely Possible in the Real World... but they happen quite a bit in comics...  "
Yeah, but you'd think something so small as The Speed of Though and Light would stand strong, but its whatever.
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#110 Posted by AtPhantom (14434 posts) - - Show Bio
@velle37:@GreenLantern555:  I'm gonna have to search some scans but that is how his powers work. At one point Wally tells a story of how he was once shot at but didn't hear or notice it. The instant the bullet touched his skin, his brain shifted into the highest gear and he was able to dodge the bullet at point blank. It's only a story so not real evidence but it gives a good impression of how it is.
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#111 Posted by velle37 (6117 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:
" @velle37:@GreenLantern555:  I'm gonna have to search some scans but that is how his powers work. At one point Wally tells a story of how he was once shot at but didn't hear or notice it. The instant the bullet touched his skin, his brain shifted into the highest gear and he was able to dodge the bullet at point blank. It's only a story so not real evidence but it gives a good impression of how it is. "

Interesting. Even that doesn't say he has no need to accelerate though, he can easily surpass supersonic speeds to dodge a bullet without even going light speed. NW and Batman and DD can dodge bullets. 
 
The whole story is usually Wally pushing himself to go faster.... i.e. acceleration. So it makes no sense for him to have no need to accelerate, because he would have nowhere to go, he would be a living photon, always at light speed and nothing would ever be able to touch him (and stuff touches him all the time, so i doubt that he stays light speed). But eh.... let me know if you find more evidence.......
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#112 Posted by GreenLantern555 (2264 posts) - - Show Bio
@velle37 said:
" @AtPhantom said:
" @velle37:@GreenLantern555:  I'm gonna have to search some scans but that is how his powers work. At one point Wally tells a story of how he was once shot at but didn't hear or notice it. The instant the bullet touched his skin, his brain shifted into the highest gear and he was able to dodge the bullet at point blank. It's only a story so not real evidence but it gives a good impression of how it is. "

Interesting. Even that doesn't say he has no need to accelerate though, he can easily surpass supersonic speeds to dodge a bullet without even going light speed. NW and Batman and DD can dodge bullets.  The whole story is usually Wally pushing himself to go faster.... i.e. acceleration. So it makes no sense for him to have no need to accelerate, because he would have nowhere to go, he would be a living photon, always at light speed and nothing would ever be able to touch him (and stuff touches him all the time, so i doubt that he stays light speed). But eh.... let me know if you find more evidence....... "
Yeah, and even if he did immediately speed up tp dodge the bullet that is just barely past the speed of sound, nowhere near the speed of light.
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#113 Edited by velle37 (6117 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:

" @velle37:@GreenLantern555:  I'm gonna have to search some scans but that is how his powers work. At one point Wally tells a story of how he was once shot at but didn't hear or notice it. The instant the bullet touched his skin, his brain shifted into the highest gear and he was able to dodge the bullet at point blank. It's only a story so not real evidence but it gives a good impression of how it is. "


I do remember Flash saying that his senses move faster and sometimes simple things take forever (like a conversation with his father in law) every thing was in slow motion to him..... then something happened and he snapped to attention... 
 
idk if that's part of it, but i read that about 2 days ago in either Rogues War, Emergency Stop, or the Human Race. i don't think it was Rogues War though because that's when Wally and Barry took down their respective Zooms...... but it might be........ anywho, sorry for the unnecessariness.......
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#114 Posted by AtPhantom (14434 posts) - - Show Bio
@velle37:  You're lowballing the fact that he did it after the bullet made contact with the skin. That's infinitely more impressive than what Batman or Daredevil do. 
 
Pushing yourself to move physically faster has nothing to do with thought speed. Two different categories. A runner may push himself to set a new world record, but that doesn't mean he's gonna start seeing the world in slow motion.
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#115 Posted by Gearo (867 posts) - - Show Bio

Wally West has this match in the bag. All he has to do is build a wooden box around Alan and he is stopped completely.

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#116 Posted by velle37 (6117 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:
" @velle37:  You're lowballing the fact that he did it after the bullet made contact with the skin. That's infinitely more impressive than what Batman or Daredevil do.   Pushing yourself to move physically faster has nothing to do with thought speed. Two different categories. A runner may push himself to set a new world record, but that doesn't mean he's gonna start seeing the world in slow motion. "

Not downplaying it. Just saying that this doesn't mean Wally has no need to accelerate. Apologies if you thought i didn't understand its significance.
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#117 Posted by GreenLantern555 (2264 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gearo said:
" Wally West has this match in the bag. All he has to do is build a wooden box around Alan and he is stopped completely. "
Doesn't me Alan will stand still and if he wanted he can make himself intangible and go under ground and out.
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#118 Posted by GreenLantern555 (2264 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gearo said:
" Wally West has this match in the bag. All he has to do is build a wooden box around Alan and he is stopped completely. "
How is the Flash suppose to get wood underneath Scott?
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#119 Posted by TheFlash4740 (1270 posts) - - Show Bio

o0o0o and oldie but a goodie. This one should be good battle

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#120 Posted by velle37 (6117 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheFlash4740 said:
"o0o0o and oldie but a goodie. This one should be good battle "

Alan just got a massive upgrade i think. From what i read at the end of The Dark Things, he now controls the Starheart in it's entirety. 
 
Scans coming soon......
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#121 Posted by TheFlash4740 (1270 posts) - - Show Bio
@velle37:  Yea i heard He's become a Beast.
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#122 Posted by beatboks1 (9764 posts) - - Show Bio
@velle37 said:
" @TheFlash4740 said:
"o0o0o and oldie but a goodie. This one should be good battle "
Alan just got a massive upgrade i think. From what i read at the end of The Dark Things, he now controls the Starheart in it's entirety.  Scans coming soon...... "
You might want to check JSA 43, that "upgrade" has been changed to a downgrade. Yes he is again the living "Starheart" as opposed  to the living "Green Flame" as at the end of the Sentinel era.  The thing is according to JSA 43 he has to now always maintain some level will to control and contain the Starheart  or he will once again succumb to it like in the JLA/JSA crossover of the preceding issues. So based on that he might have greater power at his disposal again but can't afford to go all out (sort of like his team mate Jay who can run FTL but has to pace himself to keep the heart rate below a certain number)
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#123 Posted by velle37 (6117 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1 said:
" @velle37 said:
" @TheFlash4740 said:
"o0o0o and oldie but a goodie. This one should be good battle "
Alan just got a massive upgrade i think. From what i read at the end of The Dark Things, he now controls the Starheart in it's entirety.  Scans coming soon...... "
You might want to check JSA 43, that "upgrade" has been changed to a downgrade. Yes he is again the living "Starheart" as opposed  to the living "Green Flame" as at the end of the Sentinel era.  The thing is according to JSA 43 he has to now always maintain some level will to control and contain the Starheart  or he will once again succumb to it like in the JLA/JSA crossover of the preceding issues. So based on that he might have greater power at his disposal again but can't afford to go all out (sort of like his team mate Jay who can run FTL but has to pace himself to keep the heart rate below a certain number) "

Yea, i see your point. 
 
But we still don't know his limit. 
 
He can't go all out because supposedly the Starheart will take control again, but since he controls the Starheart in it's entirety, will he even need to go all out?
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#124 Posted by XLR87T3 (9450 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan gets smacked around by Jay Garrick. Wally would destroy both of them in a fight.

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#125 Posted by deactivated-59d945143d79a (5227 posts) - - Show Bio

@XLR87T3 said:

Alan gets smacked around by Jay Garrick. Wally would destroy both of them in a fight.

All from Beatboks1

While off planet a Blood lusted Alan Scot controlled the forces of Nature and many heroes to fight all Earths heroes in multiple places at once
While off planet a Blood lusted Alan Scot controlled the forces of Nature and many heroes to fight all Earths heroes in multiple places at once

Also from Space he could possess and control two powerful beings to fight on his behalf
Also from Space he could possess and control two powerful beings to fight on his behalf

He empowered normal human beings to fight for him as well
He empowered normal human beings to fight for him as well

one of many fights he was having with teams simultaneously - all of which he was present at the fight and fought from somewhere else
one of many fights he was having with teams simultaneously - all of which he was present at the fight and fought from somewhere else

Defeats powerful beings like Mordru
Defeats powerful beings like Mordru

Another battle with another team (simultaneously) from afar
Another battle with another team (simultaneously) from afar

When teh team joined (still not near him) he fought them with energy constructs that had their own powers
When teh team joined (still not near him) he fought them with energy constructs that had their own powers

Another small group fighting yet other constructs elsewhere (also no sing of Alan even present)
Another small group fighting yet other constructs elsewhere (also no sing of Alan even present)

Kryptionians had no effect on him but make him laugh
Kryptionians had no effect on him but make him laugh

with a though he's gone - while he battled here he was also on the moon talking to members of the JSA
with a though he's gone - while he battled here he was also on the moon talking to members of the JSA

Possess martian telepaths from a distance
Possess martian telepaths from a distance

During Supertown Jay said this"A man with the ability to construct anything vs a guy who can run fast, you guess who won"(implying Jay lost)

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#126 Edited by XLR87T3 (9450 posts) - - Show Bio

@joeagentofhand1: Can Alan do all that before Wally:

  • Steals his speed
  • Performs hundreds or even thousands of Infinite Mass Punches
  • Drags him to the end of the universe
  • Throws him into the Speed Force

If Mr. Scott can do that, or react enough for telepathy, then we have a clear winner.

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#127 Posted by deactivated-59d945143d79a (5227 posts) - - Show Bio

@XLR87T3 said:

@joeagentofhand1: Can Alan do all that before Wally:

  • Steals his speed
  • Performs hundreds or even thousands of Infinite Mass Punches
  • Drags him to the end of the universe
  • Throws him into the Speed Force

If Mr. Scott can do that, or react enough for telepathy, then we have a clear winner.

I am not sure if he could react fast enough(he was able to fly at the same speed with Jay for a little while if I remember correctly), but according to my knowledge he could phase.

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#128 Posted by willpayton (21995 posts) - - Show Bio

Even the massively over-powered Flash cant defeat Alan at his full power. Sorry, wont happen.

Winner: Alan Scott!

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#129 Posted by blackadamFTW (7882 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan wins easily!!! Especially with morals on!

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#130 Posted by Epicbeast3000 (1012 posts) - - Show Bio

Wally West wins, via speed blitz of course

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#131 Posted by New_World_Order (14895 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan Scott.

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#132 Posted by XLR87T3 (9450 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan Scott with ease. If Wally destroys his body, he can just reform somewhere out-of-reach and mindrapes him. If Wally takes away his kinetic energy, Alan wills himself more of that energy or he just says "Wait, rewind" and prevents it from happening via time-manipulation. If Wally manages to throw Green Lantern into the Speed-Force, Mr. Scott can escape just as easily as Odin or Zeus could. If Wally tries to take GL to the end of the universe, well he won't because Mr. Scott will already be intangable, invisible, and teleporting, and Flash will already be dead. Green Lantern wins! Old people are victorious!

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#133 Edited by Supermanwithatan01 (9797 posts) - - Show Bio

Wally West, and easily. If this is morals off Wally steals all of his kinetic energy, including from his mind, then disembowels him. West is faster and more powerful. Scott wouldn't be able to react quick enough and he'd be useless after Wally rendered him brain dead.

Morals off: Wally effortlessly

Morals on: Wally after a good fight.

In Character: Scott being ruthless wins and Wally slips on a banana peel.

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#134 Edited by XxGin (1765 posts) - - Show Bio

Allan Scott

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#135 Edited by AngryHulks (3735 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan as long as he always has his autoshield with him.

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#136 Posted by CalebHara (2421 posts) - - Show Bio

Allan is such a beast.

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#137 Edited by XLR87T3 (9450 posts) - - Show Bio
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#138 Posted by XLR87T3 (9450 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think Flash can instantly take away all of someone's kinetic energy (especially someone whose body is consisting completely of magic), and as long as Alan still thinks at all then he can probably literally prevent kinetic energy from being removed from his body. This of course, will happen after he makes himself move by giving himself more of this energy.

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#139 Posted by nigravirum1 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

Question: How is Alan Scott one of the most powerful beings??? Wally I get cause of the speed force but why Alan? He's not even a genuine Green Lantern. Alan is powerful and all but not one of the MOST powerful. Easy fight for Wally.

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#140 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4766 posts) - - Show Bio

@nigravirum1: his power level shifts a lot. Thing is, he's made of energy and thus not exactly easy to combat.

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#141 Posted by nigravirum1 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarklordpandamonium: True good point. I love Alan (pre-new-52) but I just cant see him beating the hero with possibly the greatest potential power in the DCU

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#142 Posted by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@nigravirum1: Pre-52 Alan got his powers from an artifact called The Starheart. The Starheart was The Guardians (the green lantern guardians of Oa) attempting to rid the universe of all magic by storing it a single vessel and hiding it in a star. Alan became its host so his power is directly tied to all magical energy in the universe.

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#143 Posted by XLR87T3 (9450 posts) - - Show Bio

Question: How is Alan Scott one of the most powerful beings??? Wally I get cause of the speed force but why Alan? He's not even a genuine Green Lantern. Alan is powerful and all but not one of the MOST powerful. Easy fight for Wally.

(Activates sermon voice) HOW DARE YOU!! Alan Scott is the sole, TRUE, Green Lantern! His original power, the Starheart, came BEFORE AAAAALLL the other 'Green Lantern' wannabe's, and those blue demons the guardians could do NOTHING to stop it's SUPERIOR POWER! And to this day even ION, the God of Willpower, FAILS to show as much power or will as the ONE and TRUE...GREEEN LAAANTERRN!!!

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#144 Posted by spiderbuck1 (2768 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash wins.

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#145 Posted by Moonman78 (1736 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan, he has been the strongest standard gl, and he can take more punishment than Wally. Written correctly Alan is a beast

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#146 Posted by willpayton (21995 posts) - - Show Bio

Morals off: Wally effortlessly

If morals-off means he goes full Starheart, which is likely since his morals are the only thing that stops this, then Wally cant win. Full-power Alan soloed DC Earth.

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#147 Edited by Supermanwithatan01 (9797 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: except Wally has the ability to steal his kinetic enery. Not only freezing his body, but his mind as well. There's no version of Alan that wins against a morals off Wally. No auto shield that matters.. Wally can vibrate through them easily, he already has done so before, to Alan himself. This is irrelevant since it wouldn't come to that, Wally turns him into a historical landmark. Alan has no defense for that. He's the embodiment of the power or not, he needs his thoughts, which won't operate because the neurons (bundles of electrons that send messages to your body) will be immobilized once Wally steals the KE from said electrons. Or lends KE and give Alan a mental breakdown, causing the molecules in Alan to vibrate leading them to explode... He can do it all lightning fast... (Faster actually). A bloodlusted/morals off Wally West is practically a broken character, it'd take a bit more than Scott to worry him.

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#148 Edited by beatboks1 (9764 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01 said:

@willpayton: except Wally has the ability to steal his kinetic enery. Not only freezing his body, but his mind as well. There's no version of Alan that wins against a morals off Wally. No auto shield that matters.. Wally can vibrate through them easily, he already has done so before, to Alan himself. This is irrelevant since it wouldn't come to that, Wally turns him into a historical landmark. Alan has no defense for that. He's the embodiment of the power or not, he needs his thoughts, which won't operate because the neurons (bundles of electrons that send messages to your body) will be immobilized once Wally steals the KE from said electrons. Or lends KE and give Alan a mental breakdown, causing the molecules in Alan to vibrate leading them to explode... He can do it all lightning fast... (Faster actually). A bloodlusted/morals off Wally West is practically a broken character, it'd take a bit more than Scott to worry him.

Dude if you want to debate about a character then learn about them. Alan doesn't have a "body". He is living magic, he manifests himself in his own minds image. No electrons or neurons to slow down man.

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His whole being is nothing but pure magic. no motion or anything else to stop. Wally last time I checked can't do jack to magic energy ( which doesn't require motion)

Morals OFF Alan Soloed ALL DC earth including a flash WITH SPEED FORCE STEAL during blackest night. Christ the scans are up the page posted by Joeagentofhand1. Some of the heroes he soloed in those issues were Atlas , Atom Smasher , Batman , Blue Devil , Booster Gold , Captain Atom , Citizen Steel, Congorilla , Cyborg , Dick Grayson , Doctor Fate , Doctor Mid-Nite ,Donna Troy , Dr. Light (Hoshi) ,Felix Faust , Fire , Firehawk , Floronic Man , Frankenstein , Hourman , Ibis the Invincible (Khalifa) , Ice , Jade , Jay Garrick , Jeffrey Graves , Jesse Chambers , Kyle Rayner , Lightning , Mikaal Tomas , Mr. Miracle , Mr. Terrific , Naiad , Obsidian , Power Girl , Red Tornado , Samurai , Sebastian Faust , Shango , Stargirl , Supergirl , Teekl , Tomcat , Wildcat .

Wally cannot do any harm or damage to Alan unless he allows it. If Alan were blood lusted than he would no longer be Alan but the starheart entity itself ( an entity that is all chaos magic in the universe as gathered by the Guardians after Korna unleashed evil). Alan literally is what Alan believes himself to be. When he thinks of himself as young and vital that is what he is, when he "feels" old than he's that too. When he is injured he heasl if he wants to and only doesn't if that is what he wants. he laughed off the best blows of Supergirl and Powergirl while he was fighting dozens of other heroes in several places at once.

Finally there is a simply thing called Time manipulation. Alan has this ability to a far greater degree than Zoom. He once made life on a planet who's existence threatened Earth go by at an amazingly fast rate, so that he could destroy the planet and save earth without harming the lives on it.Thousands of years transpired around him in what was mere moments for him. Wally can't do jack to zoom because of his different rate of time and frankly because Alan can do this to a far greater degree he can be as much faster than Zoom as Zoom is to Wally. Wally is completely and utterly out of his league

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During Underworld unleashed when Neron had his wife trapped in hell Alan went to get her. he first cut a swathe through hell destroying vast areas. He got beaten by Neron because he was distracted only by his wife's safety ( until that point he was kickin his proverbial). When he finally freed himself there was a dimensional rift that was destroying many universes. Alan used his power to seal it from many sides of the fissure

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Please enlighten me to any time Wally has performed a multiversal level feat?? That's the field he's playing in here.

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#149 Posted by ComicStooge (22062 posts) - - Show Bio

I miss pre-reboot Alan.

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#150 Edited by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Wally has speed stolen Cheetah, who gets her powers from a magical plant god. I can provide scans if need be.

I am not arguing that Wally would win (I'm not sure he'd even be able to hurt full star heart alan) but I know he can steal speed even from people who get it magically.