Akuto sai vs Lucifer morningstar DC composite

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Speedxblizt

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Who wins and y

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Divyansh13

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Luci probably,he is too strong due to vertigo

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Rayuzaku

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Lucifer is stronger than Featherine. Akuto Sai scales bellow Featherine. Lucifer wins

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GehennaSheol

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@rayuzaku said:

Lucifer is stronger than Featherine. Akuto Sai scales bellow Featherine. Lucifer wins

Good joke.

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JohanLiebert123

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@rayuzaku said:

Lucifer is stronger than Featherine. Akuto Sai scales bellow Featherine. Lucifer wins

No Caption Provided

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Rayuzaku

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#6  Edited By Rayuzaku
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LuciferSolos

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Featherine is Fodder for the Leviathan who is fodder for Dream of The Endless, Lucifer one shot.

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GehennaSheol

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#8  Edited By GehennaSheol

Featherine is Fodder for the Leviathan who is fodder for Dream of The Endless, Lucifer one shot.

Leviathan isn't a part of DC. Dream of the Endless is weaker than Lucifer yes, but that doesn't make it any better for him.

Lucifer got cucked by Destiny of the Endless. Featherine stomps Destiny of the Endless. Therefore Featherine stomps Lucifer.

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LuciferSolos

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#9  Edited By LuciferSolos

@gehennasheol said:
@lucifersolos said:

Featherine is Fodder for the Leviathan who is fodder for Dream of The Endless, Lucifer one shot.

Leviathan isn't a part of DC. Dream of the Endless is weaker than Lucifer yes, but that doesn't make it any better for him.

Lucifer got cucked by Destiny of the Endless. Featherine stomps Destiny of the Endless. Therefore Featherine stomps Lucifer.

"Lucifer got cucked by Destiny of the Endless" xDDD

Lucifer > Glory of the First Circle > Mother Night > Death > Destiny

??????????

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junker134

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@gehennasheol: Wait Lucifer got beaten up by destiny? when did this happen.

Also no don't see Lucifer being stronger, than Featherine.

OT: Lucifer should win, but don't really know that many feats for Akuto sai.

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GehennaSheol

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@gehennasheol said:
@lucifersolos said:

Featherine is Fodder for the Leviathan who is fodder for Dream of The Endless, Lucifer one shot.

Leviathan isn't a part of DC. Dream of the Endless is weaker than Lucifer yes, but that doesn't make it any better for him.

Lucifer got cucked by Destiny of the Endless. Featherine stomps Destiny of the Endless. Therefore Featherine stomps Lucifer.

"Lucifer got cucked by Destiny of the Endless" xDDD

Lucifer > Glory of the First Circle > Mother Night > Death > Destiny

??????????

Lucifer tried to act all tough in front of Destiny, ripped some pages out and then thought, that he isn't bound to Destiny anymore. Turns out that the entire thing was written in the book to begin with, and happened to guide Lucifer to the World Tree.

Lucifer > Glory of the First Circle > Mother Night > Death > Destiny

Proof? Glory of the First Circle has barely any feats or statements. And nothing suggests that he's above Mother Night.

Mother Night is above Death sure. But that doesn't help Lucifer. Seeing as how Lucifer can die and that his own brother died, it's safe to say, that Death > Lucifer.

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LuciferSolos

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@lucifersolos said:
@gehennasheol said:
@lucifersolos said:

Featherine is Fodder for the Leviathan who is fodder for Dream of The Endless, Lucifer one shot.

Leviathan isn't a part of DC. Dream of the Endless is weaker than Lucifer yes, but that doesn't make it any better for him.

Lucifer got cucked by Destiny of the Endless. Featherine stomps Destiny of the Endless. Therefore Featherine stomps Lucifer.

"Lucifer got cucked by Destiny of the Endless" xDDD

Lucifer > Glory of the First Circle > Mother Night > Death > Destiny

??????????

Lucifer tried to act all tough in front of Destiny, ripped some pages out and then thought, that he isn't bound to Destiny anymore. Turns out that the entire thing was written in the book to begin with, and happened to guide Lucifer to the World Tree.

Lucifer > Glory of the First Circle > Mother Night > Death > Destiny

Proof? Glory of the First Circle has barely any feats or statements. And nothing suggests that he's above Mother Night.

Mother Night is above Death sure. But that doesn't help Lucifer. Seeing as how Lucifer can die and that his own brother died, it's safe to say, that Death > Lucifer.

Glory set the rules for the Endless, unaffected by DC's rewrite of the verse and it is also an aspect of the Presence.

Lucifer escaped from the Presence's plan, which is the same as the Book of Destiny.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

He then proceeds to impose his will on the Overvoid, The Overvoid encompasses and transcends the DC verse.

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JohanLiebert123

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@gehennasheol said:
@lucifersolos said:
@gehennasheol said:
@lucifersolos said:

Featherine is Fodder for the Leviathan who is fodder for Dream of The Endless, Lucifer one shot.

Leviathan isn't a part of DC. Dream of the Endless is weaker than Lucifer yes, but that doesn't make it any better for him.

Lucifer got cucked by Destiny of the Endless. Featherine stomps Destiny of the Endless. Therefore Featherine stomps Lucifer.

"Lucifer got cucked by Destiny of the Endless" xDDD

Lucifer > Glory of the First Circle > Mother Night > Death > Destiny

??????????

Lucifer tried to act all tough in front of Destiny, ripped some pages out and then thought, that he isn't bound to Destiny anymore. Turns out that the entire thing was written in the book to begin with, and happened to guide Lucifer to the World Tree.

Lucifer > Glory of the First Circle > Mother Night > Death > Destiny

Proof? Glory of the First Circle has barely any feats or statements. And nothing suggests that he's above Mother Night.

Mother Night is above Death sure. But that doesn't help Lucifer. Seeing as how Lucifer can die and that his own brother died, it's safe to say, that Death > Lucifer.

Glory set the rules for the Endless, unaffected by DC's rewrite of the verse and it is also an aspect of the Presence.

Lucifer escaped from the Presence's plan, which is the same as the Book of Destiny.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

He then proceeds to impose his will on the Overvoid, The Overvoid encompasses and transcends the DC verse.

Oh so lucifer is stronger the presence and Overvoid now

Intresting

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LuciferSolos

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#14  Edited By LuciferSolos

@johanliebert123 said:
@lucifersolos said:
@gehennasheol said:
@lucifersolos said:
@gehennasheol said:
@lucifersolos said:

Featherine is Fodder for the Leviathan who is fodder for Dream of The Endless, Lucifer one shot.

Leviathan isn't a part of DC. Dream of the Endless is weaker than Lucifer yes, but that doesn't make it any better for him.

Lucifer got cucked by Destiny of the Endless. Featherine stomps Destiny of the Endless. Therefore Featherine stomps Lucifer.

"Lucifer got cucked by Destiny of the Endless" xDDD

Lucifer > Glory of the First Circle > Mother Night > Death > Destiny

??????????

Lucifer tried to act all tough in front of Destiny, ripped some pages out and then thought, that he isn't bound to Destiny anymore. Turns out that the entire thing was written in the book to begin with, and happened to guide Lucifer to the World Tree.

Lucifer > Glory of the First Circle > Mother Night > Death > Destiny

Proof? Glory of the First Circle has barely any feats or statements. And nothing suggests that he's above Mother Night.

Mother Night is above Death sure. But that doesn't help Lucifer. Seeing as how Lucifer can die and that his own brother died, it's safe to say, that Death > Lucifer.

Glory set the rules for the Endless, unaffected by DC's rewrite of the verse and it is also an aspect of the Presence.

Lucifer escaped from the Presence's plan, which is the same as the Book of Destiny.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

He then proceeds to impose his will on the Overvoid, The Overvoid encompasses and transcends the DC verse.

Oh so lucifer is stronger the presence and Overvoid now

Intresting

No Caption Provided

The Presence created its children to fulfill its will in the DC Verse and can easily eliminate them, read the scan.

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GehennaSheol

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@lucifersolos:

First off, that probably wasn't the Overvoid. And even if that was the Overvoid, Featherine still wouldn't give much of a shit about that.

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lmaolmaolmao

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What's with people repeatedly scaling DC from Leviathan? It's not part of DC

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LuciferSolos

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#17  Edited By LuciferSolos

@gehennasheol said:

@lucifersolos:

First off, that probably wasn't the Overvoid. And even if that was the Overvoid, Featherine still wouldn't give much of a shit about that.

No Caption Provided

Lucifer ignored the Source, who resides in the same existence as the Overvoid.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Lucifer is an aspect of the Presence, the latter transcending the Overvoid/Source and All DC-Verse

No Caption Provided

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GehennaSheol

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@lucifersolos: It literally only says that he just ignored the Source, because he wasn't looking for that. Ignoring something, doesn't make you any more powerful. I'm not building level, because I can ignore a building.

As for Lucifer being an aspect of the Presence, so what? That alone doesn't make him any less fodder when compared to Featherine, who stomps multiversal beings who can oneshot other multiverses and in turn transcend beings like Beatrice, who on her own already did what Lucifer needed his brother for (and did it even better). Lucifer has no way to win this. Even if you wank the character as high as you can, you at the end still can only, and you need to really wank him, get him to Lambdadelta level.

And Featherine stomps Lambdadelta.

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LuciferSolos

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#19  Edited By LuciferSolos

@gehennasheol said:

@lucifersolos: It literally only says that he just ignored the Source, because he wasn't looking for that. Ignoring something, doesn't make you any more powerful. I'm not building level, because I can ignore a building.

As for Lucifer being an aspect of the Presence, so what? That alone doesn't make him any less fodder when compared to Featherine, who stomps multiversal beings who can oneshot other multiverses and in turn transcend beings like Beatrice, who on her own already did what Lucifer needed his brother for (and did it even better). Lucifer has no way to win this. Even if you wank the character as high as you can, you at the end still can only, and you need to really wank him, get him to Lambdadelta level.

And Featherine stomps Lambdadelta.

I have the impression that you think that Lucifer created a multiverse only hahaha literally at the end of his comic he imposes his will on the Overvoid, it goes without saying that it transcends all of DC, unless you don't know how big DC's cosmology is. (I doubt you even know how big DC's Overvoid is)

Edit: Overvoid And The Source are same.

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GehennaSheol

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@gehennasheol said:

@lucifersolos: It literally only says that he just ignored the Source, because he wasn't looking for that. Ignoring something, doesn't make you any more powerful. I'm not building level, because I can ignore a building.

As for Lucifer being an aspect of the Presence, so what? That alone doesn't make him any less fodder when compared to Featherine, who stomps multiversal beings who can oneshot other multiverses and in turn transcend beings like Beatrice, who on her own already did what Lucifer needed his brother for (and did it even better). Lucifer has no way to win this. Even if you wank the character as high as you can, you at the end still can only, and you need to really wank him, get him to Lambdadelta level.

And Featherine stomps Lambdadelta.

I have the impression that you think that Lucifer created a multiverse only hahaha literally at the end of his comic he imposes his will on the Overvoid, it goes without saying that it transcends all of DC, unless you don't know how big DC's cosmology is. (I doubt you even know how big DC's Overvoid is)

Edit: Overvoid And The Source are same.

Lucifer couldn't create a multiverse on his own, he had to use Michael's power to do that. And that's ignoring the fact, that Mike Carey when he writes multiverse, in reality means "universe with multiple realms", so it's not even a multiverse with infinitely many universes inside it, that he created. In fact, when Elaine went over Lucifer's creation, she noted how lackluster and half-assed some dimensions are. He didn't even bother to create an afterlife.

As for him imposing his will on the Void? It's not even said in that panel, if he really did do that. Considering that he later came back in the horrible Lucifer 2016 series, and the Void was still the same, it's safe to say, that all he did, was travel to other creations and nothing more.

The Overvoid isn't that impressive. It freaked out when the DC verse popped up, proving that it didn't even have a clue over what the multiverse even was to begin with. After that, it made a probe to go look what is inside that thing that it made a concept, so that it wouldn't spread. Featherine already transcends the nothingness that transcends the realm of the witches. All of what you said, is child's play to Featherine, she does that by just writing something on a piece of paper.

There's nothing Lucifer can do to scratch Featherine.

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DivineMaster

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@rayuzaku said:

Lucifer is stronger than Featherine. Akuto Sai scales bellow Featherine. Lucifer wins

Just curious, where did you get that Sai scales below Featherine ?

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Rayuzaku

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#22  Edited By Rayuzaku

@divinemaster: he scales below her by a small margin. Every single witch in Umineko technically has void body, their true forms are pure nothingness who can think themselves back to existence. Featherine's govern's over the entire WTC series and other works of Ryushiki such as Rose Gun's Days. Truths won't have any effect on her and I doubt Golden Truths have either. Endless 9 falls under her Meta authority. She has her Overlord Cats which are composite main characters across the who knows how many stories she entered. There was also a statement that she dealt with nonexistent entities in her book hopping adventures. In the VN version, Ange revived Lambdadelta after Featherine plot killed her but in the manga version, Featherine plot revived Lambda. I don't know much about Akuto's haxes nor how big his verse it but from what ive heard, he's equal or below Featherine.

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DivineMaster

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#23  Edited By DivineMaster

@rayuzaku: Everything you just described can be similarly scaled to DKD. While it's true that even Voyagers have the non-existent true form thing, same could be said for Computer Gods and Extra Dimensional Gods. Note that both of them also have similar meta-hax where they create stories and look at lower worlds as "fiction", ofc Extra Dimensional Gods on a higher scale then Computer Gods do.

Akuto Sai pre-void body already looks at Extra Dimensional Gods as "fiction" who already have infinite recursive depth of looking at other worlds as "fiction". So Extra Dimensional Gods can already be comparable to voyagers, while pre-Void Body Akuto Sai is Featherine level.

Void Body Akuto Sai is as close to the verses "omnipotent" as you can get, so a fairer comparison would be the one with Creator Witches (like Creator Maria).

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Rayuzaku

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@divinemaster: Well Both Beato and Featherine are the closest there is to omnipotent, Featherine touched the very bottom of The Creator's Domain but she refused to transcend further since she would have to lose her Identity and get absorbed by The Creator. The Kingdom of Gods where Featherine rests is also an Infinite hierachy that views both the human domain and the witch's domain's infinite hierachy as fiction and she's at the peak of that hierachy just below the creator. And I think The Creator sounds more omnipotent than the Law of Identity. That manga pic everyone uses for The Creator, well that's not even it, that picture shows the hierachy ladder and the silhouette represents a witch not the creator. And I heard that Akuto is supposed to become the next Law of Identity, well that basically contradicts it's Omnipotence unless it's not true.

The only advantage Sai has on Featherine is her memory device, but I doubt she'd let him reach it.

Also do they have hax that can be comparable to Umineko's truths that have absolute potency?

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DivineMaster

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@rayuzaku said:

@divinemaster: Well Both Beato and Featherine are the closest there is to omnipotent, Featherine touched the very bottom of The Creator's Domain but she refused to transcend further since she would have to lose her Identity and get absorbed by The Creator.

Well obviously not, someone is "closer" and as you said it yourself, Featherine refused to transcend further into the 4th domain, while creator witches should be in it.

The Kingdom of Gods where Featherine rests is also an Infinite hierachy that views both the human domain and the witch's domain's infinite hierachy as fiction and she's at the peak of that hierachy just below the creator.

Those multi-fold infinite R>F hierarchies are kinda ambiguous so it's still not too different to the one in DKD to make a major difference in crossverse battle.

And I think The Creator sounds more omnipotent than the Law of Identity. That manga pic everyone uses for The Creator, well that's not even it, that picture shows the hierachy ladder and the silhouette represents a witch not the creator. And I heard that Akuto is supposed to become the next Law of Identity, well that basically contradicts it's Omnipotence unless it's not true.

Exact same reasoning could be used to nerf Creator, since someone can "reach" it, "come back" from it and we have things like "creator" witches...

The only advantage Sai has on Featherine is her memory device, but I doubt she'd let him reach it.

Also do they have hax that can be comparable to Umineko's truths that have absolute potency?

They don't have "absolute" potency, since as you said it yourself, truths won't work on Featherine (and they can get negged by higher "potency" of golden truth), so they aren't absolute in the first place.

Also, let's not derail the thread any further, since Featherine and Umineko aren't a part of this match.

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Rayuzaku

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@divinemaster: when did it say Creator witches exists within the Creator? As far as I know, Beato got amped to Featherine's level not actually existing within the Creator nor higher than her in the hierachy. Beato is stronger due to not having a memory device weakness. And Maria can't become The Creator. Truths have no effect on Featherine because she can change them and not overwrite them with truths of higher potency. Golden truth works depending on the situation, you can't just go "my Knight can move like a Queen because because I believe it can" in a chess game cuz I mean that's just stupid really.

Yea let's not do that. How do I PM tho?

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deactivated-60f4d10418f1d

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Lucifer is probably in the strongest position any nigh-omnipotent can be. I don't think any nigh-omnipotent can beat him. They can stalemate at best. He wins here easily.

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DivineMaster

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Last post about this on Umineko (and so I can tell you how to PM):

@rayuzaku said:

@divinemaster: when did it say Creator witches exists within the Creator? As far as I know, Beato got amped to Featherine's level not actually existing within the Creator nor higher than her in the hierachy. Beato is stronger due to not having a memory device weakness. And Maria can't become The Creator.

Sorry my bad, I was thinking about creator/future potential Maria:

No Caption Provided

Truths have no effect on Featherine because she can change them and not overwrite them with truths of higher potency.

Yes, which literally debunks them being absolute if someone can change them (since being beyond or changing something absolute isn't a thing).

Golden truth works depending on the situation, you can't just go "my Knight can move like a Queen because because I believe it can" in a chess game cuz I mean that's just stupid really.

Yes, but it can still overwrite them depending on the situation - which again, debunks them being absolute.

Yea let's not do that. How do I PM tho?

There's a message bubble in the right top corner of the website, click it. New page will open, click on green Compose button. Add my tag to Recipients textbox. Write some Title and Message and click the green "Send Message" button.

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Rayuzaku

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@divinemaster: has my message actually reached u? I can't tell if it did...

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junker134

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#30  Edited By junker134

Hmm After looking at Akuto sai's abilities a bit, I think at worst Akuto stalemates, at best he beats lucifer. Also pretty sure the nearest one to the Creator in Umineko is true potential Maria. but hey these are my Opinion.

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kilgpmktra

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#31  Edited By kilgpmktra

Lucifer, Michael, Chaos titans and a few others, completely clap all anime and manga.

IMO, DC’s cosmology is just way too crazy

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VarricPatermann

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Lucifer stomps. Put him against some low tier Umineko characters and you have a fight

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GehennaSheol

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Lucifer, Michael, Chaos titans and a few others, completely clap all anime and manga.

IMO, DC’s cosmology is just way too crazy

Good joke. Featherine shits on Lucifer like he's nothing.

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DivineMaster

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#34  Edited By DivineMaster

Seems I need to dump feats for DKD cosmology here again (similar thread was made here). So here we go:

Worlds (universes) created by Computer Gods being infinite (since they have infinite computational power it's logical they are infinitely sized) as well as the fact they live as an abstract existence:

The gods have a will of their own, but they do not possess a body.

That is why they do not possess thought processes centered on a body. They are a contradictory existence that think despite having no true form to think with. It is true they have computer circuits. However, no one knows how many circuits are needed before thought is born. All we know is that a will is born when enough circuits are brought together. You can think of it as similar to how we do not know where one’s will is located in the human brain. Their non-body focused thought processes leave them with no distinction between themselves and the outside world, and so they are able to think in terms of the infinite. I do not mean the mathematical concept of infinity. I mean an infinitely dense infinity. And this means they can arrive at the infinite past for living creatures. The bodiless gods can arrive at the thought processes of single-celled life forms. That is the same as the birth of life and the birth of thought. And thoughts themselves create a universe. Not a scientifically observable universe, mind you. There is a theory saying that this world could have been created five minutes ago and we can never prove otherwise if our memories are false. However, that theory only holds when one has a physical body. Bodiless thoughts invalidate that theory. In other words, the universe exists and time is absolutely irreversible.

More confirmation about them being infinite with infinite adjacent space/dimension:

The virtual alternate dimension was commonly referred to as a 4th dimensional space. Researchers’ understanding of it was as follows: “we don’t know why, but there is an infinitely vast space adjacent to our dimension.” It was thought to be dangerous to remain within it, so it was usually used to temporarily transfer oneself or objects or to trap intruders as a defensive panic room.

Them trying to escape their "story" (R>F layer):

Even if the world was fictional to the Law of Identity, that fiction could be life with a will of its own. In fact, it would normally exceed the Law of Identity’s will. And if each individual was free, someone would eventually attempt to learn the truth of the world.

In this world, that had been the systemized computer gods.

The computer gods had asked themselves a question.

They were not life forms, so if they could possess a will of their own, did that not prove that the world was fictional?

And so the computer gods had produced the demon king.

The demon king had been meant to reveal the falsehood of the world, to transcend “death”, and to bring the computer gods and mankind to the true world.

Infinite amount of parallel dimensions:

“Having all these different worlds is confusing. The real world, virtual alternate dimensions, outside the universe, non-virtual alternate dimensions, and the afterlife. Does that cover it?”

Hiroshi frowned and Bouichirou corrected him.

“Not quite. What you referred to as ‘outside the universe’ and ‘non-virtual alternate dimensions’ are the same thing. Not much is known about those alternate dimensions. We only know there are likely an infinite number. You had the rest right and the Law of Identity is related to them all. Most likely, she created them. That is why they are relatively easy to understand.”

“Keena-chan created them and so we can understand them?”

“To me, she was Sudou Rimu. When I say we can understand them, I mean those worlds can be simply described. You merely need to understand that our universe was created by the Law of Identity.”

Infinite amount of logically possible worlds deriving from one (type III multiverse):

“You need to bring this world to an end…but that’s a tricky thing. First of all, we have to explain what exactly this world is.” She began her explanation. “The afterlife changes based on our…no, mostly based on your thoughts. It’s as if it were made for us. That means this world can take on any form.”

“I understand that much.”

“No, you don’t really understand what it means for it to take on any form. Are you familiar with the concept of possible worlds?”

“Possible worlds?”

.

Akuto “recalled” a term he did not previously known as if scanning through his brain and retrieving the data.

“I see. It’s a thought experiment where you assume a world where anything is possible and thus say anything logically feasible can happen.”

“Yes. In other words, anything that can be described in text can happen. That also tells us the limits of this world: anything that cannot be described cannot happen.”

.

Yoshie then began explaining the concept of possible worlds which was difficult to grasp just from the database information.

For example, the two statements “an elephant flew through the sky” and “Hitler visited Paris in the year 2000 AD” were both impossible in reality, but they worked in writing. If elephants were flying creatures and if Hitler had not died, they could occur even in reality. They were true in a world that could have been. In that case, it became clear that near infinite possibilities were contained within the world. They could even be seen as existing as infinite parallel worlds.

“You will create all of those logically possible worlds,” said Yoshie as if giving an order.

Now onto a bigger picture which makes the entire verse scale even higher then it already does:

Existence of R>F layers ("stories"):

What if the entire world were someone’s dream?

To that question alone, there was no clear answer.

That worldview could be achieved by assuming a god created the world or the world was a story written by someone, but the existence of that god or storyteller could not be proven from within this world.

Until now, that is.

-What is this? Although, if that is true…

Fujiko had trembled.

The world was fictional.

The research mentioned in that journal had given that answer.

As it had said, “If someone could peer into the afterlife and return from there, they could prove this world is fictional.”

.

But what if the world were someone’s dream?

That answer was also simple.

The world was created by the storyteller known as the Law of Identity.

Then what was the world? The world was fiction.

But at the same time, the world was an absolute truth from inside that fiction.

From the outside, it was fiction. From the inside, it was truth.

Now, this is where it becomes crazy, since there's an infinite recursive depth to these "stories" (meaning infinite hierarchy of R>F layers):

Rejecting all but the Law of Identity would leave yourself facing the one Law of Identity all alone. That would be one origin. It was possible the one having the dream lived in a world that was itself the dream of someone in another world that was again someone else’s dream, but even if that chain continued back infinitely, one specific origin could be found by facing that one Law of Identity.

.

“You live in a fiction yet you hate fiction. You have a natural urge to divulge fictions, so you will do so one after another. You destroyed the system closing us in, but the next system activated. The fiction has multiple layers. It is in an infinite retreat. It’s like a hell that continues on and on forever, so it isn’t an easy thing to deal with.”

And pre-void body Akuto creating a story that contains Extra-Dimensional Gods which in turn create their own hierarchies of stories (and exist in abstract forms to them):

This was similar to further universes being born within him.

The props used naturally extended beyond him.

In other words, even the extra-universal gods became possibilities in the story.

As a result, all stories fell into chaos.

What is it called when stories fall into chaos?

The answer was included in a certain story from the past: the Tower of Babel.

Until then, it could be said that the story was shared by all. They had all been playing a part in that story and thus the world had not been allowed to interfere with the stories other than Akuto’s.

.

The extra-universal gods all contained their own unique stories and were thus the protagonists of those stories. Those multiple protagonists had tried to advance their stories in the same space.

That may have caused a great disturbance, but it was not conflict. After all, the “weak” stories existed there in addition to the “strong” stories that attempted take the lead. The weak yet large ones ran everyday life. The strong yet small ones ran the oddities of life.

Oh yes, proof that stories Akuto creates can contain infinite amount of things, as well as proof they are causally disconnected to their creator (since he can just read their entire history like a book):

To keep the story more flat, he prepared an infinite surface, chairs, a table, drinks, and a few fruits. Even that was enough to create a story, but it would keep the story to a minimum.

People could only perceive reality as a story and they would search for the ending of that story. That ending would be the end of reality. It would also be the end of the flow of time.

The story made clear attempts to resist. The story seemed to be making attempts to survive even if it meant destroying mankind.

Akuto called a guest to the space containing the infinite surface. There were few personalities that were not influenced by him and there had only been one person from whom he had been able to receive advice.

And this was pre-void body Akuto Sai, which is qualitatively weaker to void body one since that grants him total transcendeence to the rest of his cosmology (barring LoI ofc):

Creating that lower body known as a void body was the first step toward becoming a being not of this world.

It was data made of imaginary numbers.

It was space with no time.

It was a place where the laws of physics came to an end.

It was beyond causality.

It was casting aside one’s earthly form.

It was the salvation of all.

Overall, Lucifer is missing his brother in this battle so Akuto takes it high-diff.

@varricpatermann said:

Lucifer stomps. Put him against some low tier Umineko characters and you have a fight

Nah man, the cosmology of DKD is as insane as Umineko one.

@junker134 said:

Hmm After looking at Akuto sai's abilities a bit, I think at worst Akuto stalemates, at best he beats lucifer. Also pretty sure the nearest one to the Creator in Umineko is true potential Maria. but hey these are my Opinion.

Agreed to both.

@kilgpmktra said:

Lucifer, Michael, Chaos titans and a few others, completely clap all anime and manga.

Debatable, tho we are dealing with a LN here.

IMO, DC’s cosmology is just way too crazy

Agree, but we are dealing with a similarly crazy cosmology here.

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Seems I need to dump feats for DKD cosmology here again (similar thread was made here). So here we go:

Worlds (universes) created by Computer Gods being infinite (since they have infinite computational power it's logical they are infinitely sized) as well as the fact they live as an abstract existence:

The gods have a will of their own, but they do not possess a body.

That is why they do not possess thought processes centered on a body. They are a contradictory existence that think despite having no true form to think with. It is true they have computer circuits. However, no one knows how many circuits are needed before thought is born. All we know is that a will is born when enough circuits are brought together. You can think of it as similar to how we do not know where one’s will is located in the human brain. Their non-body focused thought processes leave them with no distinction between themselves and the outside world, and so they are able to think in terms of the infinite. I do not mean the mathematical concept of infinity. I mean an infinitely dense infinity. And this means they can arrive at the infinite past for living creatures. The bodiless gods can arrive at the thought processes of single-celled life forms. That is the same as the birth of life and the birth of thought. And thoughts themselves create a universe. Not a scientifically observable universe, mind you. There is a theory saying that this world could have been created five minutes ago and we can never prove otherwise if our memories are false. However, that theory only holds when one has a physical body. Bodiless thoughts invalidate that theory. In other words, the universe exists and time is absolutely irreversible.

More confirmation about them being infinite with infinite adjacent space/dimension:

The virtual alternate dimension was commonly referred to as a 4th dimensional space. Researchers’ understanding of it was as follows: “we don’t know why, but there is an infinitely vast space adjacent to our dimension.” It was thought to be dangerous to remain within it, so it was usually used to temporarily transfer oneself or objects or to trap intruders as a defensive panic room.

Them trying to escape their "story" (R>F layer):

Even if the world was fictional to the Law of Identity, that fiction could be life with a will of its own. In fact, it would normally exceed the Law of Identity’s will. And if each individual was free, someone would eventually attempt to learn the truth of the world.

In this world, that had been the systemized computer gods.

The computer gods had asked themselves a question.

They were not life forms, so if they could possess a will of their own, did that not prove that the world was fictional?

And so the computer gods had produced the demon king.

The demon king had been meant to reveal the falsehood of the world, to transcend “death”, and to bring the computer gods and mankind to the true world.

Infinite amount of parallel dimensions:

“Having all these different worlds is confusing. The real world, virtual alternate dimensions, outside the universe, non-virtual alternate dimensions, and the afterlife. Does that cover it?”

Hiroshi frowned and Bouichirou corrected him.

“Not quite. What you referred to as ‘outside the universe’ and ‘non-virtual alternate dimensions’ are the same thing. Not much is known about those alternate dimensions. We only know there are likely an infinite number. You had the rest right and the Law of Identity is related to them all. Most likely, she created them. That is why they are relatively easy to understand.”

“Keena-chan created them and so we can understand them?”

“To me, she was Sudou Rimu. When I say we can understand them, I mean those worlds can be simply described. You merely need to understand that our universe was created by the Law of Identity.”

Infinite amount of logically possible worlds deriving from one (type III multiverse):

“You need to bring this world to an end…but that’s a tricky thing. First of all, we have to explain what exactly this world is.” She began her explanation. “The afterlife changes based on our…no, mostly based on your thoughts. It’s as if it were made for us. That means this world can take on any form.”

“I understand that much.”

“No, you don’t really understand what it means for it to take on any form. Are you familiar with the concept of possible worlds?”

“Possible worlds?”

.

Akuto “recalled” a term he did not previously known as if scanning through his brain and retrieving the data.

“I see. It’s a thought experiment where you assume a world where anything is possible and thus say anything logically feasible can happen.”

“Yes. In other words, anything that can be described in text can happen. That also tells us the limits of this world: anything that cannot be described cannot happen.”

.

Yoshie then began explaining the concept of possible worlds which was difficult to grasp just from the database information.

For example, the two statements “an elephant flew through the sky” and “Hitler visited Paris in the year 2000 AD” were both impossible in reality, but they worked in writing. If elephants were flying creatures and if Hitler had not died, they could occur even in reality. They were true in a world that could have been. In that case, it became clear that near infinite possibilities were contained within the world. They could even be seen as existing as infinite parallel worlds.

“You will create all of those logically possible worlds,” said Yoshie as if giving an order.

Now onto a bigger picture which makes the entire verse scale even higher then it already does:

Existence of R>F layers ("stories"):

What if the entire world were someone’s dream?

To that question alone, there was no clear answer.

That worldview could be achieved by assuming a god created the world or the world was a story written by someone, but the existence of that god or storyteller could not be proven from within this world.

Until now, that is.

-What is this? Although, if that is true…

Fujiko had trembled.

The world was fictional.

The research mentioned in that journal had given that answer.

As it had said, “If someone could peer into the afterlife and return from there, they could prove this world is fictional.”

.

But what if the world were someone’s dream?

That answer was also simple.

The world was created by the storyteller known as the Law of Identity.

Then what was the world? The world was fiction.

But at the same time, the world was an absolute truth from inside that fiction.

From the outside, it was fiction. From the inside, it was truth.

Now, this is where it becomes crazy, since there's an infinite recursive depth to these "stories" (meaning infinite hierarchy of R>F layers):

Rejecting all but the Law of Identity would leave yourself facing the one Law of Identity all alone. That would be one origin. It was possible the one having the dream lived in a world that was itself the dream of someone in another world that was again someone else’s dream, but even if that chain continued back infinitely, one specific origin could be found by facing that one Law of Identity.

.

“You live in a fiction yet you hate fiction. You have a natural urge to divulge fictions, so you will do so one after another. You destroyed the system closing us in, but the next system activated. The fiction has multiple layers. It is in an infinite retreat. It’s like a hell that continues on and on forever, so it isn’t an easy thing to deal with.”

And pre-void body Akuto creating a story that contains Extra-Dimensional Gods which in turn create their own hierarchies of stories (and exist in abstract forms to them):

This was similar to further universes being born within him.

The props used naturally extended beyond him.

In other words, even the extra-universal gods became possibilities in the story.

As a result, all stories fell into chaos.

What is it called when stories fall into chaos?

The answer was included in a certain story from the past: the Tower of Babel.

Until then, it could be said that the story was shared by all. They had all been playing a part in that story and thus the world had not been allowed to interfere with the stories other than Akuto’s.

.

The extra-universal gods all contained their own unique stories and were thus the protagonists of those stories. Those multiple protagonists had tried to advance their stories in the same space.

That may have caused a great disturbance, but it was not conflict. After all, the “weak” stories existed there in addition to the “strong” stories that attempted take the lead. The weak yet large ones ran everyday life. The strong yet small ones ran the oddities of life.

Oh yes, proof that stories Akuto creates can contain infinite amount of things, as well as proof they are causally disconnected to their creator (since he can just read their entire history like a book):

To keep the story more flat, he prepared an infinite surface, chairs, a table, drinks, and a few fruits. Even that was enough to create a story, but it would keep the story to a minimum.

People could only perceive reality as a story and they would search for the ending of that story. That ending would be the end of reality. It would also be the end of the flow of time.

The story made clear attempts to resist. The story seemed to be making attempts to survive even if it meant destroying mankind.

Akuto called a guest to the space containing the infinite surface. There were few personalities that were not influenced by him and there had only been one person from whom he had been able to receive advice.

And this was pre-void body Akuto Sai, which is qualitatively weaker to void body one since that grants him total transcendeence to the rest of his cosmology (barring LoI ofc):

Creating that lower body known as a void body was the first step toward becoming a being not of this world.

It was data made of imaginary numbers.

It was space with no time.

It was a place where the laws of physics came to an end.

It was beyond causality.

It was casting aside one’s earthly form.

It was the salvation of all.

Overall, Lucifer is missing his brother in this battle so Akuto takes it high-diff.

@varricpatermann said:

Lucifer stomps. Put him against some low tier Umineko characters and you have a fight

Nah man, the cosmology of DKD is as insane as Umineko one.

@junker134 said:

Hmm After looking at Akuto sai's abilities a bit, I think at worst Akuto stalemates, at best he beats lucifer. Also pretty sure the nearest one to the Creator in Umineko is true potential Maria. but hey these are my Opinion.

Agreed to both.

@kilgpmktra said:

Lucifer, Michael, Chaos titans and a few others, completely clap all anime and manga.

Debatable, tho we are dealing with a LN here.

IMO, DC’s cosmology is just way too crazy

Agree, but we are dealing with a similarly crazy cosmology here.

Yeah from what I've read, Akuto slaughters Lucifer.

Lucifer is extremely overhyped.

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@fax said:

@gehennasheol: also the white void in lucifer is the overvoid.

Don't really care. The Overvoid is among the most overhyped and wanked characters in general. Other fictional settings have the same concept but used in a much better way.

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@gehennasheol: why would you think that? Plus the overvoid has some perks to it.

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@fax:

are you Amakasu on VSBW?

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@fax said:

@gehennasheol: why would you think that? Plus the overvoid has some perks to it.

Fictional settings like the SCPverse for example, also have an Overvoid, however in case of the SCPverse as an example, the Overvoid transcends the entire narratives below him and views them as fiction. Meanwhile the DC Overvoid doesn't transcend the DC multiverse and is... afraid of it.

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Meanwhile the DC Overvoid doesn't transcend the DC multiverse and is... afraid of it.

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Lol, no. The overvoid literally is the most powerful dc cosmology other than the retcon, it literally sees all of creation as an infintesimal 0 d bacteria on its perfect self. Plus it was afraid the by the concept story because he had never seen it, so it sealed it inside a divine metal.

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Lucifer. The answer will always be Lucifer, or michael, or gabriel, or chaos titans, or mother night/Father Time, or the upside down man or CAS or Mandrakk ect ect...

Composite DC is way too stacked. People like sungsam already broke it down for us.

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@fax said:

Meanwhile the DC Overvoid doesn't transcend the DC multiverse and is... afraid of it.

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Lol, no. The overvoid literally is the most powerful dc cosmology other than the retcon, it literally sees all of creation as an infintesimal 0 d bacteria on its perfect self. Plus it was afraid the by the concept story because he had never seen it, so it sealed it inside a divine metal.

Still isn't impressive compared to things like the Overvoid Lurk.

The Overvoid Lurk doesn't really give a shit about the narratives below it. One narrative already has infinitely many planes, of which all of them have infinite uncountable dimensions, with each plane also consisting of countless multiverses. Even a single narrative dwarfs the DC verse and the SCPverse has infinitely many narratives, with each one having its own Overvoid who sees the one below as nothing but fiction.

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#46  Edited By Fax

@gehennasheol: scans, and the overvoid sees everything below as 0. It dosen't have a fictional - reality thing.

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#47  Edited By Fax
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Lucifer. The answer will always be Lucifer, or michael, or gabriel, or chaos titans, or mother night/Father Time, or the upside down man or CAS or Mandrakk ect ect...

Composite DC is way too stacked. People like sungsam already broke it down for us.

Not really. Most of Sungsam's logic was based on wrong understanding of infinities and dishonest bias(if 6D Cthulhu Mythos and baseline multiversal Akuto Sai wasnt enough evidence of that). Akuto Sai most likely still stomps even if we use composite

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#49  Edited By Fax
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@kilgpmktra said:

Lucifer. The answer will always be Lucifer, or michael, or gabriel, or chaos titans, or mother night/Father Time, or the upside down man or CAS or Mandrakk ect ect...

Composite DC is way too stacked. People like sungsam already broke it down for us.

Not really. Most of Sungsam's logic was based on wrong understanding of infinities and dishonest bias(if 6D Cthulhu Mythos and baseline multiversal Akuto Sai wasnt enough evidence of that). Akuto Sai most likely still stomps even if we use composite

Pretty much this. Sunsgam is only right if you use his wrong understanding and hilarious bias against almost any other verse (especially SCP, he hates that the most) and portray it as being objectively right.

Luckily though it isn't. And from what I've read here, Akuto hilariously stomps Lucifer into the ground.