Akatsuki vs Straw Hat Pirates

@nyas: enel used his Devil fruit abilities to amplify his mantra making it more powerful

Hmmm... well, as someone who has read both and is biased toward one piece, honestly, I can't see the strawhats being able to win. It'll be a tough fight, of course. (Not like some people are saying that akatsuki stomp) The strawhats have much better physicals in zoro, sanji, luffy, and even brook. And two of them (luffy and zoro) use haki, which is the only true factor against the heavy hitters like pein and obito. Nami is the only truly useless one here. As for akatsuki, i think that them being bloodlusted just makes it too much for the strawhats to handle. I see them taking deidara, sasori, kakuzu, and a few of the paths, thats it, really. Akatsuki 6/10

@sondeatheater: just a quick answer to this stupidity :

You still don't get it... Just because it contains the word "Natural" doesn't mean it's "Real"... How should I put it for you to understand ? Fragmenting the expression to prove an invalid point is pathetic, Google Natural element not "natural" and "elements" separately .Should I google it for you ? Here you go :

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=natural+elements

As I said several posts before I can do the same to say that chakra = Nature manipulation. Unless they are stated to be real or identical to real natural elements it's pointless... Is it so hard to understand ?

"Devil Fruits & Logias

A lot of people don’t seem to understand Devil Fruits or how things work within One Piece so I thought I’d take to time to address some of these erroneous assumptions.

1) The abilities produces (Paramecia) are strange and not natural at all.

People seem to be under the impression that Devil Fruits in One Piece are somehow magical or mystical. This is false. People assume this because Devil Fruits are fruits that somehow give people superhuman abilities. They cannot think of an explanation for this so they go throughout the series labeling every ability they see as magic simply because they themselves do not deem this to be natural or cannot explain them. Everyone should really try to keep in mind that this is fiction and every little abnormal thing you see that wouldn’t exist in our world is not automatically magic or magic related. People have even tried to point out weird things like Lassoo or Funkfreed in an attempt to prove(and I’m using that term rather loosely here) that Devil Fruits are magic based. And the logic behind this is merely that something like this is so far from the norm that this can’t possibly be natural. However as I said earlier this is fiction and Natural=/=Normal.

The abilities are not natural by our world’s standard, but the OP world is vastly different from ours, creatures such as Dwarfs & Dragon’s are part of the natural world. Just because something isn’t normal, doesn’t mean it isn’t natural. This is also the same world in which people 1000 years before the current storyline had technology capable of building an electrically powered ancient city, robots and facilitated travel from their planet to the moon.

For people who still don’t completely comprehend that being natural IS NOT the same as being normal, instead of just reciting definitions let me just give a small example seeing as how this isn’t a difficult concept to grasp.

Take a look at these odd weather phenomena.

http://www.planetpals.com/weather_phenomena.html

You know that these things do not occur due to magic or anything supernatural because those things do not exist. They are phenomena that occur via perfectly natural laws. Yet how many of these could you consider to be normal? See the difference between the two terms? Good.

2) DF’s are magical/not natural

Devil Fruits aren’t understood by most of the population of the OP world, which is why some people call it magic. Devil Fruits naturally (as in, without human interference) re-spawn when a DF user dies in some location around the globe.

http://images.wikia.com/onepiece/images/d/dd/Lassoo_Manga_Infobox.png]Lassoo

Not once in any interview or SBS question involving Devil Fruits has Oda ever even referred to or implied Devil Fruits to be magic related. In fact he’s even stated that Luffy’s rubber is completely natural rubber[SBS Volume 8]. Now natural rubber does start off as a goo(though you could simply consider this as natural rubber that functions in a similar manner to processed rubber seeing as how this is fiction and Oda can do whatever he wants) but the main point here is that Oda does not consider this ability to be magical. If Devil Fruits were actually magic then Luffy’s fruit would be no exception. However we can see that this is clearly not the case. If Devil Fruits were magic Oda would have referred to them as such. Yet he did not.

Even further evidence of Devil Fruits not being magical is the fact that they are scientifically understood and can be scientifically reproduced via natural materials. These scientists aren’t going around waving magic wands around a cauldron and chanting magic words in order to make a Devil Fruit appear. Nor do they manipulate any magic or mystical energies. They simply go into the lab and reproduce a DF via scientific means. Seeing as how Devil Fruits have a scientific explanation then they can’t be considered magic regardless of ones opinion on the matter because magic and the supernatural are things that are defined as being mysterious and cannot be understood by science. If something has a scientific explanation then it is by definition not magical.

3) Logia’s

Oda stated[SBS Volume 30] that Logias are capable of changing their human bodies into something found within nature meaning that what they change into is the exact thing you can find anywhere within nature. Meaning they are natural. To someone with common sense the matter should have been settled right there. However there are those who try to base the context of Oda’s statement on the context of a completely different series. We’ve already established that he doesn’t consider these abilities to be magic. Nor do the abilities operate on supernatural/magic based principals. So why is that people try to equate the logia’s natural elemental manipulation with other series that require that element to be infused/altered with a supernatural/magic energy before they can be controlled? Such things clearly don’t apply to Logias who can control their element if it happens to be lying around even when they didnt produce said element.

They’ve been shown to manipulate their element outside of what they produce from their bodies, such as Crocodile, who states that he is stronger in the desert;

http://img.batoto.net/comics/2013/04/30/o/read51800ae8e36d3/img000008.jpg

Which is shown by how he is able to manipulate the sand around the area when he fights against Luffy and send a sandstorm to Yuba

http://img.batoto.net/comics/2013/04/30/o/read51800ae8e36d3/img000007.jpg

http://img.batoto.net/comics/2013/04/30/o/read51800ae8e36d3/img000015.jpg

http://img.batoto.net/comics/2013/01/29/o/read510834719bf6d/img000002.png

Enel causing lightning bolt to strike from the clouds by merely waving his hand.

http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/mangas/One%20Piece/294%20-%20Raigoh/One%20Piece%20-%20294%20-%2004.png

http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/mangas/One%20Piece/294%20-%20Raigoh/One%20Piece%20-%20294%20-%2005.png

Or Ceaser Clown manipulating oxygen in the atmosphere to prevent Luffy from breathing and stopping Usopp's fire based attack

http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/mangas/One%20Piece/674%20-%20The%20Bystanders/07.jpg

http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/mangas/One%20Piece/681%20-%20Luffy%20vs%20Master/06.png

http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/mangas/One%20Piece/681%20-%20Luffy%20vs%20Master/07.png

Oda didn’t state that they mimic the element or produce a fake duplicate, and the context of the series has never presented logia’s as having produced fake forms of elements that appear in nature. Just the opposite. He even explicitly states that[SBS Volume 35] Logias turn their bodies into the element rather than merely copying or producing a fake.

4) Public Perception and superstition vs Reality and knowledge

The notion that superstition and magic are nonsense and that there is a natural scientific explanation for everything is a prevalent theme throughout One Piece.

Oda(as previously pointed out) does not consider these abilities to be magic nor does he refer to them as such. The idea that Devil Fruits are Magic is nothing more than superstition brought on by the ignorant populace who don’t understand what they are and can’t think of anything else to call them besides magic. An example of this would be Kinemon a Samurai from place thats pretty much ignorant from being independent and closed off from the rest of the world not knowing that he ate a Devil Fruit and thinking that he is able to use sorcery. It should be noted that he also mistakes Robin and Nami’s attacks/abilities as “Ninja techniques” and Usopp’s pop greens as “witchcraft”.

Blueno’s statement further implies that theres nothing “supernatural” about Devil Fruits. Rumors of magic or devils are viewed as nonsense to the grand line scientists when it comes to DFs.

http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/mangas/One%20Piece/385%20-%20There%20is%20a%20Way/One_Piece-v40-149[Null].png

This gives more credence to the fact that the assumption of DFs being magical is just the result of common people making things up because they have no idea how they actually work. This notion of there being a natural scientific explanation for everything in their world is a reoccurring theme in One Piece as seen when Noland describes superstition, blood sacrifice rituals, and belief in gods as foolishness and continually perpetuates the idea that superstition is something that only exists in the minds of the ignorant.(Theres a myriad of examples of this in Skypeia)

http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/mangas/One%20Piece/289%20-%20Full%20moon/One%20Piece%20-%20289%20-%2015.png

http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/mangas/One%20Piece/289%20-%20Full%20moon/One%20Piece%20-%20289%20-%2016.png

This theme is seen yet again when members of the new Fishmen pirates confused Nami’s Sorcery Climatact for actual magic. Nami then corrects them by denouncing that and states that her ability is purely science.

http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/mangas/One%20Piece/640%20-%20Fishman%20Island%20Rising/02.png

http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/mangas/One%20Piece/640%20-%20Fishman%20Island%20Rising/03.png

It is clear that the people’s interpretation of these fruits and abilities is false hence why Oda states[SBS Volume 48] that Vegapunk the world’s greatest scientist in the series will explain what they really are. If these abilities were simply magic like everyone thinks then there would be no big mystery as to what they “really are” in the first place. Devil Fruits may give rise to some abnormal and seemingly logic defying abilities but that in and of itself does not inherently make them magical."

He isn't really “Lightning”.. Enel is Electricity he can Manipulate the weather and use Lightning.. theres a difference. So no Enel isn't real Lightning. Example Laxus isn't an Electricity Dragon Slayer.. he's a lighting Dragon Slayer who can use and manipulate electricity aswell. Enel is the opposite.

Luffys rubber maybe normal but that doesn't mean The lightning Enel uses is normal 1. It didn't do anything to Luffy and NATURALLY if lightning is that hot Luffy should have be burned. You said “Just because something isn’t normal, doesn’t mean it isn’t natural”.. That's wrong Natural=Normal http://thesaurus.com/browse/Natural.

So it's either Oda doesn't know his elements and how they work or The lightning in the OP verse isn't like ours.. hell Luffy kicked lightning.. last time I checked you can't do that lol

@nyas:

What Sasuke did to Itachi was nature manipulation along with the use of chakra to change the form of it.Zetsu outright states it unless you believe it to be a hyperbole which makes no sense at all.Sasuke also stated it would unavoidable which was the reason why Zetsu questioned Sasuke's "final" technique in the first place.He also phrased Logias having the ability to turn into a natural element or "force of nature". Natural elements aren't in this google search you speak of.

Stop reaching .Chakra doesn't apply to Devil Fruits.

Laxus uses magic to do this and his powers come from a lacrima.Devil Fruits are a natural phenomenon in OP earth and actually gives the power to manipulate/control actual forces of nature and elements.Not using chakra,magic,other supernatural source to generate it artificially.

Natural/Normal in OPVerse.Besides that, its a synonym to A single definition of natural.

The reason why luffy’s doesnt feel heat from lightning is because his DF completely negates everything from lightning including its heat. He can be burned by other energy sources just not lightning.

@ghostravage: Deidara =C3 killing most

Kisame = Water Dome( Taking away devil fruit)

Pain=Shinra Tensei

GG

Straw Hats because I want them to win.

Jmarshmalllow

Omg so much wrong on this page alone!! What have i missed on comicvine that everyone is spewing out lies!!?!

Enel, and logia ARE their element, AND they have control over it. it's NOT one or the other

Mantra, IS haki, And Enel is NOT the only person that can use it! his is just a lot better due to him using it WITH his devil fruit. his df. Basically buffed it.

So much crazy talk in one thread .-.

@sondeatheater: yea cause that makes a lot of sense.. And I'm not saying anything like DF = Magic or anything like that, I understand.I know the difference and I know how their powers work.. didn't even get what I was saying.. smh

and either way Natural=Normal also makes no sense otherwise

@sondeatheater: @dbvse7: http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=20846

If you want to get into this more, Nami actually has the ability to manipulate the weather and the short and simple calc made for it.

Oh god, this is that thread where a young me debated prince O.O

Doesn't matter my original point still stands

@sondeatheater: not impressed by fan calcs unless Oda says he is then idc about a calc :P

Yup. Memories

actually read it first -.-

http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v42/c407/18.html

http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v42/c408/2.html

Quote:Chain of Events: 1.)The Feat is straightforward Nami spawns a Cloud 2.) Nami shoots a Ball Lightning into it 3.) Kalifas Notices the Cloud ( Nami did strange stuff like Water doubles before) 4.) Lightning Rains down on Kalifa and we see a Speach Bubble for her with a Question Mark hence she was surprised by the Lightning not by the attack

http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v42/c408/3.html

Kalifa can follow lightning from close range no issues. However, someone

more capable in Blueno could not follow G2 Luffy's Jet Pistol.

This is simple logic. A must be greater than B. This is no different to a character

dodging a bullet, then the character who dodged said bullet being blitzed, the

"blitzer" must logically be faster than the bullet. There's no silly speed blitz

tropes involved here. Blueno straight out commented that he could not follow G2

Luffy's attacks or movement. Go to the chapter "Gear 2nd" to find the

evidence.

Common sense /Logic

Anyway.. forgetting this lightning bs you guys over exaggerated about.

Akatsuki still takes it.. too veratile to many abilities to many ways to win.. that are not just weak watered down fanboyish blitzing and neck snapping arugments that can just be countered by 1 charcter.

Ignores everything I said that was actually supported -.-

I'm curious by the way,what actually stops Robin from neck snapping?

@sondeatheater: Just because idc doesn't mean I didn't read.. it just means idc about a fan calc.. Since people like to go to Oda for Luffy info I'll believe it when I see Oda says it :P

@sondeatheater: Just the simple fact that Itachis Genjutsu would already be activated and Robin could be snapping her own neck for all she knew. :P

It's not that im ignoring.. Until Oda says something about his speed.. because Odas word > everyones calcs and opinion Im not going to take calcs based on real word logic and apply it to something that doesn't use real word logic. :P simple as that.

@dbvse7: i didn'tre-read the op, but as far as i know, genjutsu shouldn't work in this senario

Ok, so i did reread it just now and it seems since the first page, the OP has edited the OP. I was writing in conjunction with my earlier response on the first page where i also pointed out that genjutsu won't work

@Cooldes: Genjutsu is allowed.

@dbvse7: yeah, yeah, i edited my response literally right after lol. See?

@Cooldes: yea I saw I was like "O.O how did I miss all that"

It's pretty much implied seeing as how Kalifka actually dodged Nami's lightning attack made through weather manipulation. The post above.And Kizaru actually stated himself to be light speed multiple times...

Quote:Chain of Events: 1.)The Feat is straightforward Nami spawns a Cloud 2.) Nami shoots a Ball Lightning into it 3.) Kalifas Notices the Cloud ( Nami did strange stuff like Water doubles before) 4.) Lightning Rains down on Kalifa and we see a Speach Bubble for her with a Question Mark hence she was surprised by the Lightning not by the attack

Calculations most of the time simply define how impressive the feat is.There's no assumed speed for anything besides the lightning itself.

But how will that stop Itachi from getting straight up blitzed before he can think it

Genjutsu still requires some type of movement or thought that Itachi aint got the time for before any of the monster trio go crazy on them based mostly on their raw speed and striking power,not abilities.I remember Itachi using a genjutsu on Sasuke only via finger pointing at Sasuke and eye contact with others.

Also, Brook is immune to genjutsu and able to hypnotize people with music ,forcing them to sleep, create illusions in their minds etc.

@sondeatheater:

^ lol i love this guy, reminds me of a lower-post-count-having me :]

sondeatheater, did you read through the whole thread? because i already disproved a lot of what that guy is saying in the first few pages

skimmed over it slightly,didnt care much as it's been like 8 months since they posted it.

name?

@sondeatheater:

...my name is cooldes .-.

name of the guy whom you diagreed with i mean?

Oh, i was debating with princearagorn waaaaay back then.

I was refferring to dbvse7 when i said i disproved what he was saying. in my debatewith prince i explained how the strawhats basically can blitz the crap out of the atatsuki.

@Cooldes: Mostly everyone on comicvine is like that.When a series is less known than another,they tend to be downplayed by more than popular comics/ manga.

In General Knowledge

Anime Priorities

Dbz>massively hypersonic>Naruto >Bleach>>>>>FullMetal Alchemist>>>> One piece

You should have seen that thread where the Homonculi take on CP9 in a 1v1 type of setting in comicvine.

@sondeatheater: it only takes one look Which no one on the Straw Hat team knows.. 1st off... they're not looking up at the sky or the ground or eachother.. so please

2nd stop with the fanboyish bias Speed blitz acting like The Akatsuki are as slow as hell approach.. again there not the Justice league. Do you not get how dumb that sounds "The Akatsuki get speed blitz".. REALLY now OK.. like damn.. and um theres a thing called Susanoo he has.

And yea Brook has no stomach throat eyes or organs but he can see eat drink and talk and breathe just fine so ugh.. im not taking that "immune" bs. Im guessing he can't die too right?

Honestly this whole time thats the only thing you've brought up is blitz this blitz that you sound like a Flash or Superman fanboy it's THAT annoying.. funny thing is only 3 of them can blitz even if that did work.. They know nothing about who they are fighting which is REALLY bad.

How do they stop Microscopic Bombs

Or losing there powers because of Kisame. How do they stop Peins planetary devastation... wait let me guess Speed Blitz? Omfg please.. How do they get out of Genjutsu Itachi Cast at the very damn start.. You can't speed blitz out of Genjutsu smh.

@sondeatheater: 1v1? Can you link me to this thread??

The humunculi would learn the meaning of Sblitz in that senario.

Enel's lightning is real lightning because oda has said so, even if you ignore what oda said there has been absolutely nothing in the series to say that its not real lighting.

Looking at abilities alone,Strawhats would probably lose,but due to their far higher striking potency and speed, they will blitz.

Abilities:Though it's possible Robin can restrain all of them for a short time along with the other StrawHats for Nami to make a lightning storm as powerful's as one of Enel's attacks.Franky Shogun's Coupd'etat is SUPER deadly as a normal one from Franky alone destroyed multiple cityblocks and Franky Shogun is a giant robot,but OP doesn't say.Brook can play music while everyone's fighting to hypnotize the Akatsuki.Chopper can go berserker mode and step on everybody.

Luffy uses Conquer's Haki.Observation Haki basically prevents anyone from touching the monster trio.

Scenario:Assuming the monster trio doesn't straight up speed blitz,they stall and kill off most fodders with their speed.Nami goes invisible and sets up her lightning clouds while Robin immbolizes everyone's bodies for a few moments.Franky sets up a coupde'tat or ,if allowed, goes into his franky SHogun and sets up his Coupde'tat.Brook plays his music in the background and captures them into an illusion.Chopper goes his berserker mode and steps on everyone while they're hypnotized.Ussop is just being God Ussop.

I'm done for today.

I think itachi can solo(bare with me) or even obito since Genjustu is a huge factor.

Don't forget itachi can make exploding shadow clones and obito can faze through attacks.

Robin's neck cracking attack is a dumb move because these aren't regular academy ninjas this are ninjas that were top in their ranks and highly skilled in sensing and killing.

And if obito survived numerous attacks from a shinobi army then I think he'll could annihilate the whole crew.

Lets all forget about this thread and go get coffee

@sondeatheater: "Assuming they actually look at him directly at the eye."

When someone is bloodlusted most to All the time that person is focused on that Target they don't know anything about Itachis eyes so to say they're not looking directly at eachother is a stretch.. im not assuming.

“It sounds dumb because you're bias toward Akatsuki? ”

No cause I actually like One Piece more but I know to respect the other team for what they are.. Not make ignorant bias statements like they Speed Blitz the crap out of the them knowing this is a completely different scenarios with a Veratile as hell team. Thats why it sounds dumb.

Itachis Susanoo is durable as hell IIRC from that scan you posted not even his full Susanoo tanked Sasukes Kirin.. Which pretty much destroyed the surrounding area besides Itachi.. nothing is getting past the shield and the Straw Hats don't know its weakness.

“ What problems will they have if they don't know who they're fighting? ”

ALOT. . think about everything deadly about Sasori - Kakuzo - Itachi - Pein - Obito - Deidara.. They are all BLOODLUSTED and you really asked what problems.. lord.

“ Deidara wont be able to set it up or even hit the monster trio before they blitz.”

Here's the problem.. Theres 3 now Deidara can easily defend himself he did it against Gaara on his home turf.. with a bloodlusted Pein on the Battle field TRUST me Deidara will be the last thing they worry about.. it's not as easy as you're making it look.

“ Luffy can still fight even in water.Zoro can easily cut it up and Brook can freeze it. ”

I can agree to that argument.

“They destroy it or dodge it?”

It's not that simple.. it's a black sphere with strong Gravity.. They would need to have the explosive power of a Rasen Shuriken - Bijuu Bomb and an Attack from Itachis Susanoo which they simply have not shown to have all together.

Kakashi told Asuma and Kurenai to keep their eyes closed period.. which im guessing indicates even looking in his direction would be fatal.

Again everyone is bloodlusted everybody is focused on eachother saying Itachi wouldn't have Sharingan activated and already looking at his opponents isn't a good assumption.. cause thats not true at all..

Itachi is a serious person already and doesn't take his eyes off his opponent he's not a amateur.. And again Sharigan reads high speed movement it's not like their attacks are unpredictable.. this plus Itachis reaction speed and Amaterasu is a deadly combo which you are really underestimating here.. Like Sasuke you have to out smart Itachi not out fight him Sasuke did both thats why he pretty much won.

Robins under Genjutsu she would most likely attack her Nakama and herself not knowing shes in a Genjutsu.

Same goes for Brook Franky Chopper Usopp Luffy and Nami. Sasoris puppets could rip them apart Kakuzo and Zetzu could rip them apart (not the monster trio)

There are so many things the Akatsuki can do here that The Straw Hats just can't contain all of it plus the Akatsuki don't go down easy.. They're basically fighting a small army (when it comes to abilities and combat versatility.)

Akatsuki slaughterstomp

@DeathHero61 Couldn't say it better myself,

well played....

...?

Am I missing something?

@princearagorn1: Oh specifically I ment the Zoro part. :P

@dbvse7: We're taking the battle to PM aren't we?

Brook can freeze object from long range.Any water attack thrown will simply be frozen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp8EBCYUOQk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRhBqUiDOfk

Luffy Within a bubble

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RKqp1w1EyI

300 Pound Cannon

Almost any of the more-powerful Akatsuki have the potential to solo the Straw Hats, if only because they have no defenses against them.

Itachi could set any of them on fire, and the Straw Hats would have no way of putting them out. Or he could point at any of them with his finger and ensnare them in Tsukuyomi.

Nagato could break their bones with Shinra Tensei and ward off any ranged attacks with it, or drop meteors on the lot of them. He could also reanimate any of the Straw Hats who end up dying and use their corpse to fight their former comrades.

Kisame has the most raw power, and using his water jutsu, could take Luffy, Robin, Chopper, and Brooke out of the fight completely.

Tobi could teleport their heads away or make himself intangible to any attacks.

Really, the only chance the Straw Hats have is to speed-blitz Akatsuki, and that's assuming they're not intercepted. The only ones fast enough for that are Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji.

@princearagorn1: hey dude, long time no see

This thread brings back memories, i think it's one our first debates (against eachother, iirc we mostly agreed in things)

Meanwhile, in the One piece side of this thread...