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#51 Posted by 106me (3732 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas: You. For not knowing what Aizen can do with prep.

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#52 Posted by TheVivas (19440 posts) - - Show Bio

@106me: I know perfectly well what he can do with prep, and the fact that you think with one month of prep he can beat EOS Naruto is straight laughable.

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#53 Posted by daBlackswrd (612 posts) - - Show Bio

@kcminato: most of those characters will be under kyoka suigestsus affect from the start aizen knows what he's getting into most of the alliance will fall under his shikai

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#54 Posted by daBlackswrd (612 posts) - - Show Bio
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#55 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio

@kcminato: most of those characters will be under kyoka suigestsus affect from the start aizen knows what he's getting into most of the alliance will fall under his shikai

Sensing techniques. Wakusei rasengan one shot. GG.

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#56 Edited by daBlackswrd (612 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: lol only Naruto has the sensing technique and most of the alliance will b trying to kill him also tousens bankai negates all senses including sensing techniques

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#57 Edited by 106me (3732 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas: Are you hearing yourself? You think that giving prep to one of the best prep masters in manga still won't be enough to beat Naruto? Not to mention this prep master has the potential to destroy Naruto with his abilities alone.

I'm so glad I left the Naruto community. That series went to hell after the Pein arc.

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#58 Posted by KwasiD2k (844 posts) - - Show Bio

Should be Naruto vs Aizen + gotei 13 and he still solos.

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#59 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: lol only Naruto has the sensing technique and most of the alliance will b trying to kill him

Not really, they had an entire squad of sensors in the war. All naruto needs is one hit with a technique like wakusei rasengan to take out the bleach cast..

also tousens bankai negates all senses including sensing techniques

He's way too slow to take advantage of that, and everyone in the area will be without senses. AoE = game over, and naruto has the AoE..

@106me said:

@thevivas: Are you hearing yourself? You think that giving prep to one of the best prep masters in manga still won't be enough to beat Naruto?

A prep master better than aizen and someone close to his level together could not prep for a character - mountain level in his final form - in one entire year. How on earth do you propose they accomplish something vastly above that in a month?

Not to mention this prep master has the potential to destroy Naruto with his abilities alone.

...abilities like what? He lacks the damage output to harm naruto, speed to keep up at all, durability to survive more than one hit, and hax to match naruto.

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#60 Posted by rcranium (263 posts) - - Show Bio

We also never get to see AIzen's bankai which is a huge powerup.

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#61 Posted by Terrortuga (2135 posts) - - Show Bio

Aizen still loses .

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#62 Edited by TheVivas (19440 posts) - - Show Bio

@106me: Yes I'm hearing myself through this computer screen pretty well. *sarcasm*

Aizen's best prep feats aren't enough to allow him to beat someone who is vastly superior to him in hax, strength, speed, power, durability, etc.

In hindsight, you probably shouldn't have left the Naruto community, for you'd know how foolish "Aizen with prep can beat EOS Naruto" sounds.

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#64 Posted by daBlackswrd (612 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: an aoe attack in tousens bankai would do it but NARUTO won't risk hurting his friends with the same attack the sensors mean nothing 90% of the alliance will b under aizens control he would just make guy, rock lee and maybe even kakashi attacking him at the same time it's really more like aizen + his gotei 13 + 90% of the shinobi alliance vs naruto

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#65 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: an aoe attack in tousens bankai would do it but NARUTO won't risk hurting his friends with the same attack

chakra arms, flying out of range - danger sensing to avoid getting in the field of effect entirely. Nukes. Blitz. Clones. Way, way too many ways for tosen to be even a factor.

the sensors mean nothing 90% of the alliance will b under aizens control

Aizen cannot control people, he can only show illusions - high tiers could simply resist the illusion or sense through it if required.

he would just make guy, rock lee and maybe even kakashi attacking him at the same time

Considering naruto can end it before most of them can do any significant work, not much of a problem. Aizen will also need to keep up with naruto to actually adjust his illusions so that they attack naruto - which isn't possible considering he's wayy too slow to even see naruto.

it's really more like aizen + his gotei 13 + 90% of the shinobi alliance vs naruto

So basically shinobi alliance which can be sensed with pin-point accuracy to save them + fodder that will be one shotted.

@106me said:

@princearagorn1: @thevivas:

Looks like I've been away from CV for too long. Heh, see what happens when I take a break for just a few months? Friggin characters are all out of balance now. Some are overrated, some are underrated, etc. To top it all off, the most competent of claims from Naruto fanboys are "Naruto's a mountain buster" (which doesn't really sound competent at all). Sounds absolutely identical to the "because he's Batman" claims, in fact. Guess I'll have to remind CV why Naruto characters are so damn overrated.

Now that you're back, everything will be set right, specially after admitting you have no knowledge of recent developments in the series. The ignorance will certainly make up a formidable argument.

Seriously? Aizen himself is mountain buster. He needs no prep to deal with another mountain buster.

...of course. His final form is a mountain buster, so he doesn't need prep for dealing with a mountain buster. But he's facing characters vastly above mountain level here, those who can no-sell attacks that cut the moon in half, blast through it and destroy a significant chunk in a single shot.

Hax? Unbelievable. Naruto is in no way hax. Masashi made a point of that by making Naruto only learn two jutsu's (aside from all those variations of rasengan and the tailed beast jutsu's).

Yep, instant sealing, clones, atomic dismantling, regeneration prevention... no hax at all.

Listen, Aizen is Massively Hypersonic, hes above class 100, and has survived mountain level+ attacks.

Exactly. He's too slow, too weak, and too fragile to be even a factor here.

Saying Naruto solo's is incredibly shortsighted.

Of course naruto solos. Why wouldn't he? His casual attacks like wakusei rasengan can pretty much one shot the bleach cast by now.

I don't have the time right now to finish this debate, as I have more important things to worry about, such as college, work, etc.,

...of course you do.

but you don't know anything about Bleach if you think that Naruto can solo the bleach verse.

Not really - the problem is you have no knowledge of naruto since you quit the community. It's strange that you're blaming someone else for your own ignorance.

When I get back, I'll have a much more comprehensive list on why Aizen could be Naruto, and why this is battle isn't a mismatch.

Looking forward to it.

I really believe that this battle would be a good match.

Belief too easy to shatter.

Both sides have formidable opponents.

Not really. Bleach cast doesn't have anyone formidable.

But you are buying into the naruto hype way too much. Remember, I have complete knowledge of both universes here,

That looks just about impossible from your comments.

so I know what I'm talking about.

And that is clearly false.

I doubt you, on the other hand, know very much about Bleach at all if you think Naruto can solo.

A doubt too easy to clear up once you actually enter the argument.

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#66 Posted by daBlackswrd (612 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: the only person who aizens shikai might not affect is NARUTO the rest will b under his shikai unlike genjutsu which has been resisted and broken and countered and reversed none of that has ever happened to aizens shikai the high teirs ??? They have no showings of resisting illusions aizen doesn't has to b faster than naruto to keep his illusions on him cuz it's not on him it's on everyone else also guy lee kakashi anyone else from the alliance will b a factor that naruto would have never accounted for u make it seem like if naruto knows what's coming and he'll b prepared but he's not just cuz he can sense danger doesn't mean he won't b hit also if I wanted to b cheap I could always say reiatsu crush gg

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#67 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio

@dablackswrd:

the only person who aizens shikai might not affect is NARUTO the rest will b under his shikai unlike genjutsu which has been resisted and broken and countered and reversed none of that has ever happened to aizens shikai the high teirs ???

Aizen's shikai has never faced anyone who can see through illusions.

They have no showings of resisting illusions

High tiers like kakashi can pretty much fight people with illusions, like he did with obito in the start of their fight.

aizen doesn't has to b faster than naruto to keep his illusions on him cuz it's not on him it's on everyone

...he has to keep up with naruto so he can keep track of what illusions to project on whom. Like he had to project hinamori as himself - couldn't have done that if he couldn't keep up with gotei 13 at all.

else also guy lee kakashi anyone else from the alliance will b a factor that naruto would have never accounted for u make it seem like if naruto knows what's coming and he'll b prepared but he's not just cuz he can sense danger doesn't mean he won't b hit also

Uh, they wouldn't be a factor - kakashi and some of them can counter illusions - aizen cannot do that. Nor is he actually fast enough to adjust his illusions to do any significant damage.

if I wanted to b cheap I could always say reiatsu crush gg

No, you couldn't - because naruto characters can see ghosts, and have an immense amount of spiritual energy.

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#68 Posted by TheVivas (19440 posts) - - Show Bio

@106me said:

@princearagorn1: @thevivas:

Looks like I've been away from CV for too long. Heh, see what happens when I take a break for just a few months? Friggin characters are all out of balance now. Some are overrated, some are underrated, etc. To top it all off, the most competent of claims from Naruto fanboys are "Naruto's a mountain buster" (which doesn't really sound competent at all). Sounds absolutely identical to the "because he's Batman" claims, in fact. Guess I'll have to remind CV why Naruto characters are so damn overrated.

A prep master better than aizen and someone close to his level together could not prep for a character - mountain level in his final form - in one entire year. How on earth do you propose they accomplish something vastly above that in a month?

Seriously? Aizen himself is mountain buster. He needs no prep to deal with another mountain buster.

...abilities like what? He lacks the damage output to harm naruto, speed to keep up at all, durability to survive more than one hit, and hax to match naruto.

Hax? Unbelievable. Naruto is in no way hax. Masashi made a point of that by making Naruto only learn two jutsu's (aside from all those variations of rasengan and the tailed beast jutsu's).

Listen, Aizen is Massively Hypersonic, hes above class 100, and has survived mountain level+ attacks. Saying Naruto solo's is incredibly shortsighted.

I don't have the time right now to finish this debate, as I have more important things to worry about, such as college, work, etc., but you don't know anything about Bleach if you think that Naruto can solo the bleach verse. When I get back, I'll have a much more comprehensive list on why Aizen could be Naruto, and why this is battle isn't a mismatch. I really believe that this battle would be a good match. Both sides have formidable opponents. But you are buying into the naruto hype way too much. Remember, I have complete knowledge of both universes here, so I know what I'm talking about. I doubt you, on the other hand, know very much about Bleach at all if you think Naruto can solo.

I have complete knowledge of both universes here,

I have complete knowledge of both universes here,

No Caption Provided

No. You don't. Come back when you actually do know what you're talking about.

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#70 Posted by TheVivas (19440 posts) - - Show Bio

@106me: Yeah, you're whole credibility was lost when you said you had "complete knowledge of both universes here" yet called Naruto a mountain buster. Naruto was a mountain buster more than 200 hundred chapters ago.

And lol at this:

No, he tanks what TOP TIER characters in Naruto dish out without severe injuries. Take a look:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

That's nothing. THIS is what top tiers in Naruto can do:

Sasuke cutting a meteor into chunks, and then those chunks still being big enough to dwarf mountains:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

In the red circle is one of the chunks Sasuke cut, the arrows are pointing to mountains:

No Caption Provided

Or Naruto, casually destroying six of those same meteors:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Yamma's attack is nothing compared to even Naruto's first Biju Bomb he performed in Nine Tails Mode, let alone what the top tiers can do(him and Sasuke).

Also:

Oh, you mean that one time when Toneri Ōtsutsuki was amped and blew a chunk off the moon.

No Caption Provided

Um.....what? Toneri cut the moon in half. Yeesh, when you said you left and didn't keep up, you sure meant it.

No Caption Provided

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#72 Posted by TheVivas (19440 posts) - - Show Bio

@106me:

And has stayed that way since. I still haven't seen a scan where Naruto is more than that.

Then no wonder you think Aizen can beat him.

Not bad, but that's inconsistent with the next scan you posted.

Lol no it's not. The pieces didn't dwarf him because he, oh I don't know, destroyed them? Obvious much?

Yammamoto's a casual mountain buster with just his bare hands. I doubt any of the other top tiers in Naruto can replicate that with just their fists.

So wait.......you post a video of him punching around Wonderweiss and destroying a few buildings, and you think that's sufficient to claim that Yamma is a "casual" mountain buster because of that? Or when he absorbed his own blast? Neither of those suggest he's a "casual" mountain buster. And casual mountain buster isn't stronger than Naruto's first Biju Bomb, which was the equivalent of five Biju Bombs, the first time he used it, with half of Kurama's power, and after only using it one time on accident during training. Yeah, not seeing how Yama is better.

True, but my point was that he wasn't able to completely one shot it.

And? So Naruto tanks an attack that cuts all the way through and around the moon, and it's not impressive because he didn't completely destroy it?

He cut it in half and some of the bits fell down to earth, and those bits alone were posing a threat to Konoha.

Again, and? So it's a bad showing that chunks from the moon are a threat to Konoha? Oh god, you must specialize in reaching.

Never said that.

Didn't have to. It's completely evident judging from your posts.

Now, I'm flattered that you checked up on this thread too see how I was doing, but I didn't tag you. I tagged @princearagorn1.

Can't let Aragorn have all the fun of destroying these posts of yours. Couldn't help myself.

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#73 Edited by 106me (3732 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas: You haven't given any scans to counter my claims. You're done.

Move on, and just agree to disagree, unless you have scans to counter my claims.

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#74 Edited by TheVivas (19440 posts) - - Show Bio

@106me: I did give scans, you just incorrectly tried to pull the "inconsistent" card on them. You want scans of Naruto being a multi-mountain buster? Just think back to his fight against the other Tailed Beasts when he cancelled out their five-way combined Biju Bomb with only one of his own. For someone who has "complete knowledge of both universes here", it should be a piece of cake to remember that, right?

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#76 Edited by Renchamp (7770 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeieldavid: Please refrain from referring to users as "tards". It's not allowed.

Moderator
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#77 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio

@106me:

I'm actually really excited! It's been months since I've had a debate with a semi-competent user. So here goes nothing:

Good to know. Let's go :)

How? Aizen's zanpakuto controls all five senses. You can't just "sense" through it. Seriously, the Soul Society would have done a Gotei 13 dog pile on Aizen if it were that easy. I actually thought you would have known that already considering that's basic knowledge to even non-bleach fans. Maybe you're the one being ignorant.

1. Sensing is not a part of five senses, which aizen controls.

2. Genjutsu is also used to take control of five senses - some naruto characters like kakashi can counter it just fine.

In fact, they can even have fights with nothing but illusion - a level aizen cannot perform on. The reason they cannot dog pile on aizen is because shinigami are not trained against tp/illusions like shinobi are.

Oh, you mean that one time when Toneri Ōtsutsuki was amped and blew a chunk off the moon. The moon was also mostly intact (of course, some of the pieces were falling down I believe.)

1. ...I have a feeling you haven't seen the whole movie. There are several feats which clearly affect the moon significantly, not just the one.

2. And toneri had just activated tenseigan chakra mode to do that - that's not an amp, that's how he fought.

3. Even so, naruto did not even need his strongest form to pretty much two shot toneri the moment he got serious. Toneri is hardly a top tier in the series.

So, if there are casual moon busters, as you say, why then was a meteorite from a small part of the moon such a threat to the village below?

1. Naruto was not in the village at the time, he was in space. Sasuke was nowhere to be seen. Those two are where all the power is concentrated.

2. The meteorite in question was still dealt with.

And why didn't Toneri just destroy the whole moon if he was a moon buster?

Because that was his entire plan - 'drop the moon on the planet' - not 'destroy the moon'.

Why on earth would he foil his own plan?

As for why the people on earth didn't blow it up, they were about to. But hinata and her sister were on the moon: Hinata and her sister were on the moon atm:

No Caption Provided

(Mind you, I know kakashi did not have his sharingan to teleport the meteorite, but even with it he still wasn't a moon buster).

Of course he wasn't.

You make it sound like every Naruto character is a moon buster, when in fact, none are.

Anyone who has chakra related to sage is. Rest, not so much. Also, according to you, Kaguya, someone who creates and erases entire dimensions containing planets, is not moon buster - sure.

That actually reminds me of when Kenpachi one-shot a giant meteor that was bigger than the one Sasuke blew up in The Last: Naruto the Movie.

Difference is, kenpachi did it with his very best attack (nozarashi) - and the strongest attack in the series to date. Sasuke did it with his essentially weakest technique (chidori) and it's not even remotely the strongest attack in the series..

No, Naruto characters only get to Massively Hypersonic levels. Don't give me bullsh*t and say they're lightspeed.

Yes, because massively hypersonic characters can coutright dodge light speed attacks after they are inches from their face. Makes sense. Not that you need to be light speed in order to be blitz the bleach cast at all.

Base naruto can cross countries in seconds while running through obstacles, one of his weaker forms can casually run towards and catch attacks that grow as large as the moon in seconds. Even if someone cries too much about the light speed showing, the other showings are more than enough to blitz the living daylights out of bleach.

No he's not. He's leagues above Hollow ichigo who was already in the several-hundred ton range (Just like other Naruto characters being in that range).

Other naruto characters being the key word.

Naruto in his weaker form has broken out of chibaku tensei - something strong enough to rip out full fledged mountains out of the ground.

No, he tanks what TOP TIER characters in Naruto dish out without severe injuries. Take a look:

You sure you posted the right scans?

This is the 96:

No Caption Provided

really, characters that are fodder by now have topped that by leaps and bounds.

No Caption Provided

Why would you bring that up? The bijuu bomb is more powerful than that.

obviously bijuu bomb is more powerful than wakusei rasengan. But naruto doesn't need a high level jutsu to one shot bleach cast. This is what the wakusei rasengan was used to cancel out:

No Caption Provided

Heck, most lower-high tier characters in bleach can dish that out.

Now this, I'd love to see - in fact, you can add up every attack in bleach to date, and try to make an argument on how it will do significant damage to the moon as done above.

You know, I used to respect you, but I don't anymore since you keep wanking on Naruto characters without listening to any opposing debaters.

I don't have a reason to consider anyone's respect precious, nor is it a goal to gain respect. If it was my arguments that gained your respect before, I'm more than confident to regain it. If you lost it because I'm debating for naruto, I really don't care.

As for supposedly not listening to you, I have read the bleach manga three times by now, pretty much seen about everything you will bring to the table - and as for the aggression, it was to counter yours implying I did not know anything about bleach and the whole speech about naruto is overrated because you left. Back on topic.

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#78 Edited by daBlackswrd (612 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: there is no proof anyone in naruto can not fall under an illusion technique except for naruto here in this match u said kakashi was fighting with genjutsu against obito which is fine but it just shows he can still be affected stop negating prep u seem to think this is an upright battle with no strategy as for reiatsu crush it would work cuz spirit energy only makes up for half their chakra and I'm sure half of narutos chakra is not enough not to get reiatsu crushed but like I said that's the cheap way

Could u post a scan of only narutos bijuu bomb cuz that scan above is the one where minatos bijuu combined with narutos vs the rest of the bijuu bombs it's not really narutos feat alone or a showing of how strong his single bomb is cuz the aoe is all the bombs and not just one them also aoe does not equal more power just a bigger aoe that's all

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#79 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: there is no proof anyone in naruto can not fall under an illusion technique except for naruto here in this match u said kakashi was fighting with genjutsu against obito which is fine but it just shows he can still be affected stop negating prep

so what is stopping kakashi from countering the illusion, and ko'ing aizen? Aizen, who has no defenses to mind attacks. Also, please form complete sentences, it's hard to figure out what you're trying to say.

u seem to think this is an upright battle with no strategy as for reiatsu crush it would work cuz spirit energy only makes up for half their chakra and I'm sure half of narutos chakra is not enough not to get reiatsu crushed but like I said that's the cheap way

Half their chakra is more than enough to resist reiatsu crush, considering high tiers like naruto have more spiritual energy than the entire bleach cast combined..

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#80 Posted by daBlackswrd (612 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: nope half of naruto is not enough to resist reiatsu crush and " sure the do"

Aizen has prep and full knowledge he would find a way to resist it or reverse genjutsu like itachi did

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#81 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: nope half of naruto is not enough to resist reiatsu crush and " sure the do"

Half of it is a lot more than what entire bleach side has, so yes, it is more than enough to resist reiatsu crush. And second statement doesn't make any sense.

Aizen has prep and full knowledge he would find a way to resist it or reverse genjutsu like itachi did

urahara, who is smarter than aizen, failed to prep for illusion in a year. Aizen isn't doing much in a month.

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#82 Posted by daBlackswrd (612 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: lol aizen will figure it out he has full knowledge remember

Uraharra couldn't prep against it cuz he was already under the affect and aizens shikai is considered unbreakable unlike genjutsu which has been broken reversed and countered before ( which aizen will know how to do)

And no they don't have enough spirit energy to match

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#83 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio

@dablackswrd said:

@princearagorn1: lol aizen will figure it out he has full knowledge remember

yes, and? smarter characters than him failed to figure out a way to fight illusion with a year worth of prep.

Uraharra couldn't prep against it cuz he was already under the affect and aizens shikai is considered unbreakable unlike genjutsu which has been broken reversed and countered before

Of course it's considered unbreakable. Bleach characters can't break or counter illusions, shinobi can.

( which aizen will know how to do)

Proof?

And no they don't have enough spirit energy to match.

They have enough to overwhelm, actually. Naruto is around moon level - his spiritual energy >> spiritual energy of every bleach character put together.

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#84 Posted by TheVivas (19440 posts) - - Show Bio

It seems no one can make an actual "argument" as to why Naruto doesn't solo other than "Naruto is wanked, he's not beating a team of people from a manga I like more".

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#85 Edited by daBlackswrd (612 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: the fact that aizen has full knowledge and prep is more than enough proof that he will figure out a way to break genjutsu or counter it or reverse it. He knows the ins and outs of it he also knows how it's done that's what full knowledge means

Only half their chakra is spirit energy unless u really think that half power naruto verse is still strong than bleach verse which is serious lowball

Moon lvl is up for debate he tanks a moon cutting attack but then he has a very low end feat by being cut by that girl with the sword forgot her name

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#86 Posted by 106me (3732 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas: You really need to knock it off and stop baiting. I'm working on a rebutal, but I'm in between classes right now and don't have the time to type up another claim. I know you're really anxious (I would be too if I was facing a debater with my skill), but you're going to have to sit down and wait patiently like a good little boy.

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#87 Posted by Army2442 (3275 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto solos with talk no justu and aizen gives up after having to watch 100 flashbacks.

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#88 Posted by TheVivas (19440 posts) - - Show Bio

@106me:

You really need to knock it off and stop baiting

Lol you think that comment was for you? Don't flatter yourself.

I know you're really anxious (I would be too if I was facing a debater with my skill)

You don't have skill with debating. Skilled debaters don't go around acting all cocky, making claims like "I have complete knowledge of both universes here" and "Guess I'll have to remind CV why Naruto characters are so damn overrated", and then showcase that you don't even know what happened in the last 200 hundred chapters of one of those mangas.

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#89 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: the fact that aizen has full knowledge and prep is more than enough proof that he will figure out a way to break genjutsu or counter it or reverse it. He knows the ins and outs of it he also knows how it's done that's what full knowledge means

Actually, the fact that people smarter than aizen cannot counter illusions in one whole year kills your argument entirely.. Bleach preppers cannot prep for mountain level characters given a whole year... they're not prepping for naruto in a month.

Only half their chakra is spirit energy unless u really think that half power naruto verse is still strong than bleach verse which is serious lowball

...of course he is. Considering his casual attacks (wakusei rasengan for example, posted above) are stronger than every attack bleach characters have shown to date put together, half is more than enough.

Moon lvl is up for debate he tanks a moon cutting attack but then he has a very low end feat by being cut by that girl with the sword forgot her name

he was stabbed with a space/time technique. He has several feats of shrugging of swords, if we really want to get in that argument.

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#90 Edited by Unspokenkiz (126 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1 said:
@dablackswrd said:

@princearagorn1: the fact that aizen has full knowledge and prep is more than enough proof that he will figure out a way to break genjutsu or counter it or reverse it. He knows the ins and outs of it he also knows how it's done that's what full knowledge means

Actually, the fact that people smarter than aizen cannot counter illusions in one whole year kills your argument entirely.. Bleach preppers cannot prep for mountain level characters given a whole year... they're not prepping for naruto in a month.

Only half their chakra is spirit energy unless u really think that half power naruto verse is still strong than bleach verse which is serious lowball

...of course he is. Considering his casual attacks (wakusei rasengan for example, posted above) are stronger than every attack bleach characters have shown to date put together, half is more than enough.

Moon lvl is up for debate he tanks a moon cutting attack but then he has a very low end feat by being cut by that girl with the sword forgot her name

he was stabbed with a space/time technique. He has several feats of shrugging of swords, if we really want to get in that argument.

Dissagree with that Mayuri is fighting a guy who stomped kenpachi and kenpachi is way beyond mountain after his shikai feat. :P

Also mark my words when bleach ends they will be >naruto but for now Naruto Stomps :)

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#91 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio

Dissagree with that Mayuri is fighting a guy who stomped kenpachi and kenpachi is way beyond mountain after his shikai feat. :P

pernida only fought non-shikai kenpachi, who's not even near mountain level.

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#92 Posted by 106me (3732 posts) - - Show Bio

To start off, this is not my first rebuttal. A few weeks ago, I made another post that was either deleted (via a glitch or bad coding) or just didn't get through to the thread. And no, I am not lying, this is a reoccurring problem on CV that even has a thread dedicated to solving it: How Not To Lose A Post

And, I've also readjusted my attitude towards the debate and have slightly changed my outlook on the fight. My overall point is that the Narutoverse would beat the Bleachverse (however, it wasn't always that way), but it would not be easy for the Narutoverse. It would be more of a slight majority.

Now, I'd like to point out that these two series are entirely different in terms of how they fight. The Bleach characters prefer hax abilities and using their physical stats in a technical way. The Narutoverse, on the other hand, uses massively destructive AoE attacks and their physical stats to overpower their opponent. So I can understand why someone might say one side stomps the other, even though that is not true. Both universes just have a different approach to fighting.

So let's examine a few things here.

1. Sensing is not a part of five senses, which aizen controls.

Yes, but Aizen still has control of their sight. Sensing is only useful if you can see or reveal the opponent's exact position, which I'm pretty sure that only Naruto has the [sage] sensing necessary to do that. Normal chakra detection would be ineffective against someone without chakra. Even if we assumed that Aizen had chakra, there are still ways to hide oneself from a sensor (perhaps if he suppressed his Reiatsu or such).

2. Genjutsu is also used to take control of five senses - some naruto characters like kakashi can counter it just fine.

No, that is not correct. Genjutsu activates through one of the five senses depending on what form of genjutsu is used (it can either activate by sight, by sound, or even by touch if I'm not mistaken, etc.) I'll give the Naruto Verse the benefit of the doubt and say genjutsu can work on a Bleach character, but most of the characters (mid tier and up)have the necessary Reiatsu to disrupt the genjutsu. Since genjutsu can be disrupted with force, Reiatsu would be excellent at countering genjutsu, considering that Reiatsu can overwhelm an opponent and bring them to their knees with sheer force.

In fact, they can even have fights with nothing but illusion - a level aizen cannot perform on.

You make it sound more impressive than it actually is. Genjutsu has never been used to kill an enemy. It's only use is to disable opponent so that the genjutsu user can deliver the finishing blow. So, sure, Sasuke and Itachi have fought with illusions, but, they never were able to escalate the fight on pure illusions alone. Same for the fight with Sasuke and Danzo.

That's merely a difference in how the illusions work in both universes. It's not so much a power difference as it is a style difference.

1. ...I have a feeling you haven't seen the whole movie. There are several feats which clearly affect the moon significantly, not just the one.

True. I've only seen bits and pieces as the english dub is not out yet, and a pirated version is incredibly hard to find.

:P

3. Even so, naruto did not even need his strongest form to pretty much two shot toneri the moment he got serious. Toneri is hardly a top tier in the series.

Yet he is the only character we've seen so far demonstrate the ability of semi-moon busting abilities. But, I'll play along for now.

Because that was his entire plan - 'drop the moon on the planet' - not 'destroy the moon'.

Why on earth would he foil his own plan?

As for why the people on earth didn't blow it up, they were about to. But hinata and her sister were on the moon: Hinata and her sister were on the moon atm:

These are more assumptions then facts, but, fair enough.

I accept the fact that Naruto, Toneri, and Sasuke have the potential to moon bust. At the most it would be small moon busting from what we've seen. I will give you that though.

Difference is, kenpachi did it with his very best attack (nozarashi) - and the strongest attack in the series to date.

That is incorrect. Nozarashi is not an attack, it is his Zanpakuto''s name. It happens to be one of the strongest destructive feats in Bleach, but it is not the strongest form of attack in the Bleach verse. Hax powers in the bleach verse are what makes this a good fight, not their destructive capabilities.

Sasuke did it with his essentially weakest technique (chidori) and it's not even remotely the strongest attack in the series..

No, Sasuke's chidori isn't his weakest technique. I believe his grand fireball jutsu is. It's one of his less destructive, yes, but I wouldn't go as far as to say he can casually spam a high level version of chidori without consequence.

Yes, because massively hypersonic characters can coutright dodge light speed attacks after they are inches from their face. Makes sense. Not that you need to be light speed in order to be blitz the bleach cast at all.

Base naruto can cross countries in seconds while running through obstacles, one of his weaker forms can casually run towards and catch attacks that grow as large as the moon in seconds. Even if someone cries too much about the light speed showing, the other showings are more than enough to blitz the living daylights out of bleach.

Naruto can blitz most Bleach characters, and even the top tiers to a certain degree, but Naruto is pretty much the best speedster in the series. So no one else is blitzing, as anyone under (the narutoverse) top tier and god tier struggle in the hypersonic ranges of speed. Unlike top and god tiers of Bleach, who are around relative speeds, and can reach the several hundred mach range, while the mid tiers of Bleach are mostly in the massively hypersonic range.

Naruto in his weaker form has broken out of chibaku tensei - something strong enough to rip out full fledged mountains out of the ground.

Piece by piece of course. It won't rip a fully intact mountain out of the ground if that is what you are suggesting.

really, characters that are fodder by now have topped that by leaps and bounds.

First off, no. Mid tier characters are maybe building busters. Top tiers are above that, yes, but certainly not fodder shinobi.

Second, those buildings are not drawn to scale (and I mean that the blast is not the same size as those buildings). That would be a silly assumption.

The blast easily dwarfs dozens of blocks of the city. Considering that they are in an entire city, which is multiple miles, I'd say that it is partialcity busting. Not that the top tiers of Naruto can't easily replicate that, but blasts like that will still cause injury for any who are not careful.

Now this, I'd love to see - in fact, you can add up every attack in bleach to date, and try to make an argument on how it will do significant damage to the moon as done above.

As you wish.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

This would put Kenpachi in the lower Quintillion ton range. I suspect that only the top tiers would be able to take even just a few of those hits.

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On a side note, the first feat would put Ichigo in the 100,000,000 ton range, as he blew apart half of a building with the force of his swing alone. I will admit that the Narutoverse has better AOE capabilities, but the Bleach verse has better raw physical showings. Only the top tiers can tank some of those blows. When it comes to strength, that kind of force is enough to one shot anyone under top or god tier characters in the narutoverse. Luckily for the narutoverse, only top and god tiers of Bleach have that strength.

Moving on to the AoE attacks you were asking for...

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*This is shows mountain busting capabilities. Will explain further.

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*This blast sent a shockwave throughout Hueco Mundo. Small island busting should it have directly hit hueco mundo.

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*Another island busting feat.

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*This is another small island busting feat.

Now, this is not quite the same as god tier level AoE attacks from Naruto. I only bring this up to show what the top tier characters of Bleach are capable of, which is enough to at least keep up with the AoE's of the top tiers of Naruto. And of course there are many more feats than just the ones I posted. Like I said, this is just an example of what top tiers of Bleach are capable of.

My conclusion is that the Narutoverse would take a slight majority over the Bleachverse. I am not denying that. However, it will only be the god tiers of Naruto that guarantee a victory over Bleach.

I don't have a reason to consider anyone's respect precious, nor is it a goal to gain respect. If it was my arguments that gained your respect before, I'm more than confident to regain it. If you lost it because I'm debating for naruto, I really don't care.

It was the former, not the later. The arguments you made have earned my some of my respect, but you're attitude in this debate has not earned any of my respect (with the exception of your latest post, perhaps).

As for supposedly not listening to you, I have read the bleach manga three times by now, pretty much seen about everything you will bring to the table

Then we have something in common, as the same can be said about to you regarding my knowledge on the Narutoverse.

- and as for the aggression, it was to counter yours implying I did not know anything about bleach and the whole speech about naruto is overrated because you left. Back on topic.

Right, I am sure that I probably started some aggression in you, and had I realized that, I would have laid off of some of the insults and the arrogant jokes I made. However, what started my hostility was the immediate backlash on my original posts, especially from @thevivas. Not that I am blaming you since I am partially responsible for some of your aggression, but when I am aggressively debating against multiple people (especially when some are hostile towards me) and I am carrying the debate on behalf of Bleach all by myself, I can get easily frustrated. So I apologize for upsetting you and you were right when you said we should move on.

This will probably be my last post on this thread. I may showcase a few hax feats of Bleach, but I am not countering anything else, and from here on out I will keep everything civil. I know that you will do the same (assuming that is what you want, which, I think it is). Hopefully others will do the same as well.

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#93 Posted by Xcom-Comander (83 posts) - - Show Bio

Aizen with a months prep? He should win.

Now before the Naruto people attack me The Great shinobe alliance is rather delicate even with Naruto 's friendship jutsu . They've been fighting each other as rivals for generations. It would not take too much effort for Aizen and his zampacto The start having them turn on each other.

And in his ability to create beings completely dedicated to sealing particular people's abilities and he "Should" have the ability to seal Natuto. At worst it does the same thing as what he did to yomamoto where the being absorbs a ton of energy and then threatens to explode taking everyone with him forcing Naruto to step in and stop the explosion. That should take up all his energy.

Also there's nothing saying that they have to stay and fight. Everyone involved on the bleach side has the power to jump dimensions where no one on the Naruto side can follow. Effectively letting them pick and choose their battles and allowing them to strike the homelands of each of the villages with impunity forcing the army to break up.

Not to mention the time manipulation guy (bleach) should be straight up immune to Naruto and everyone else ( Kakashi might be able to Kamu him but Actally hiting him would be difficult)

If Aizen wins its not because he's more powerful but because he is very good at messing with peoples heads and dastardly schems.

Also this is removing the fact that bleach character should soul crush everyone due to the lack of spiritual pressure and few if any having the skill set to actually see them. Yes I know it's fourm rules to not include it but really it's an aspect of the universe that should be considered in fights like this.

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#94 Posted by TheVivas (19440 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, Aizen and then still aren't winning.

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#95 Posted by HigherPower (12295 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto can make a clone and the clone would solo

Sorry for the bump but I couldn't resist :P

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#96 Posted by FlashingSabre (3863 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto can make a clone and the clone would solo

Sorry for the bump but I couldn't resist :P

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

But seriously, Ascended Juhabach and Compostie Ichigo are the only Bleach charcters who don't get blitzed and one-shot/sealed, and they still don't have a real chance of winning. The wank needs to stop.

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#97 Posted by grappolo (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

lol why i'm not surprised.

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#98 Posted by AlexTheBoss (17430 posts) - - Show Bio

The shinobi win because of Naruto, but the prep will make Aizen and his team pretty dangerous.

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#99 Edited by CaptFalcon725 (1182 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas said:

@dablackswrd: Aizen isn't controlling the Hokages.

The Edo Tensai jutsu makes them immune to suggestion. I'd like to think Aizen's shikai isn't significantly more potent than the Infinite Tsukuyomi. I wonder what Aizen would have done with Madara's plan.

But even still, the past Hokages aren't beating all 10 espada, Aizen, Gin, and Tosen.

And I just read that there are no Edo Tensai hokages. Yeah with a month's prep the Shinobi Alliance dies. Aizen saves Naruto for last because he reminds him of Ichigo.

And then I read that Aizen and his group have prep and are bloodlusted. Yeah Yammy's final form makes him the size of a tailed beast if not larger so yeah...

...starting to wonder if someone doesn't like Naruto

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#100 Posted by linglung (2213 posts) - - Show Bio

And......

Still team 2 win