Aizen Bleach vs. Momoshiki and Jigen Naruto (speed equalized)

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EpicHotFlame

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#151  Edited By EpicHotFlame
@saxz said:
@epichotflame said:

@saxz: he still gets immobilised, absorbed and then knocked out...knocking out doesnt have anything to do with damaging the body

Aizen wasn't knocked out by Yhwach, if you insist he was then provide the scans.

If you don't have a specific hax to knock someone out, then the only way to do so is via damage and immense trauma, this is basic stuff dude, are you trolling or what.

tbh i didnt know if he was knocked out or not by yhwach, i saw an earlier post saying he was knocked out by yhwach thats where i got that info from

fair enough, then but aizen is not escaping immobilisation spam from the duo, all his attacks will be invalid due to them being absorbed by karma (karma was stated to absorb energy matters like chakra not only chakra)....and what stops jigen and momo from draining aizen from all his spiritual energy

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TheEmperor95

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Honestly jigen isn't very useful here. The black rods were stopped by sage mode naruto bare hands. They aren't piercing base aizen let alone this aizen. Speed being equal just ensures both get hit with KS and either hado 90 or 99.

Worst comes to worst aizen just outlast either of them. Don't know why all boruto characters have trash stamina and are nerfed into oblivion but it is what it is

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Saxz

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@epichotflame:

tbh i didnt know if he was knocked out or not by yhwach, i saw an earlier post saying he was knocked out by yhwach thats where i got that info from

He wasn't knocked out by Yhwach, he just got overpowered but was still very much conscious.

fair enough, then but aizen is not escaping immobilisation spam from the duo,

You have to be specific on the type of immobilization. You talking about. Aizen can attack perfectly while not moving, infact that was his whole Schick with the chair in the entire arc.

all his attacks will be invalid due to them being absorbed by karma (karma was stated to absorb energy matters like chakra not only chakra)....

Kawaki explained it further, cnly energy from jutsu can be absorbed, and there's no other energy in the verse than Chakra, so I don't know where you are getting this from. I am not really interested in this argument since it doesn't matter.

and what stops jigen and momo from draining aizen from all his spiritual energy

Because Aizen won't just stand there and let him do it(if he could) and that wouldn't do anything to him, a sternritter already tried that.

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EpicHotFlame

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@saxz said:

@epichotflame:

He wasn't knocked out by Yhwach, he just got overpowered but was still very much conscious.

ooh fair enough then

You have to be specific on the type of immobilization. You talking about. Aizen can attack perfectly while not moving, infact that was his whole Schick with the chair in the entire arc.

immobilisation, thats not moving ur body at all

Kawaki explained it further, cnly energy from jutsu can be absorbed, and there's no other energy in the verse than Chakra, so I don't know where you are getting this from. I am not really interested in this argument since it doesn't matter.

energy matter LIKE chakra means it can also absorb other energy matter not only chakra, it said it can absorb attacks as long as it has energy matter in it, it cant absorb raw physical matters like water, fire, etc with not energy matter infused

Because Aizen won't just stand there and let him do it(if he could) and that wouldn't do anything to him, a sternritter already tried that.

lol it doesnt matter if he stands or dodge cuz he cant see it nor sense microscopic inanimate objects (black rods) he doesnt even have sage mode type sensing, u mean the time it took 5 minutes to resist the immobilisation?

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Undre

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@epichotflame: it was directly stated karma can not aborbe natrual elements. Only chakra.

Rods arent immobilizing. The hogykou makes him adapt to any situations. Not only that his rods can be overpowered. This was shown by naruto.

Aizen cant be drained hogykou gives him a endless ammout of reiastu

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Undre

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@dyuked said:

Please bump this it's getting ridiculous

This how it's gonna go aizen start using ks momo will see through it via rinnengan and jigen body would be automatically be taken by ishiki momo proceed by shadow possesion and would immobilized aizen then jigen would sceal aizen away

KS works on guys who have spirits in them aswell. Shadow possession gets absorbed

Or

Momoshiki took his pills the shockwave of his hands cut aizen in twovlike he did for the big tree and momo obliterated aizen with a bijuu orb left nothing behind no more body no more regen

Aizen. That was almighty push stop wanking. His rinniegan lit up red meaning he was using a justu.. Aizen you do know aizen has tanked county level attacks while suppressed and took no damaged. Not only that hes litterly immortal,has teleportation,instant adaptation via Hogyoku reality warping. Kido spells. One that can stop time. Another can warp space

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Dyuked

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@undre said:
@dyuked said:

Please bump this it's getting ridiculous

This how it's gonna go aizen start using ks momo will see through it via rinnengan and jigen body would be automatically be taken by ishiki momo proceed by shadow possesion and would immobilized aizen then jigen would sceal aizen away

KS works on guys who have spirits in them aswell. Shadow possession gets absorbed

Or

Momoshiki took his pills the shockwave of his hands cut aizen in twovlike he did for the big tree and momo obliterated aizen with a bijuu orb left nothing behind no more body no more regen

Aizen. That was almighty push stop wanking. His rinniegan lit up red meaning he was using a justu.. Aizen you do know aizen has tanked county level attacks while suppressed and took no damaged. Not only that hes litterly immortal,has teleportation,instant adaptation via Hogyoku reality warping. Kido spells. One that can stop time. Another can warp space

Work on guy who has spirit on them about two soul at the same time?since when aizen can absorb chakra?

Aizen has tanked lvl country lmao and you call ms wank please send them feat of this country lvl attack that aizen tank ? And just show me where aizen has ever warp reality too please i beg you

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deactivated-5e80d2cfcca66

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AlexTheBoss

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Either should solo. At least Jigen does through sealing.

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Undre

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Work on guy who has spirit on them about two soul at the same time?since when aizen can absorb chakra?

okay energies are equal and KS worked on plp with multiple spirits. Kido 99 aborbs enegy. Not only that aizen has sealing resistance feats kiskue tryed sealling him multiple times. Only way to beat his is make the hogykou reject him like kiskue did.

Aizen has tanked lvl country lmao and you call ms wank please send them feat of this country lvl attack that aizen tank ? And just show me where aizen has ever warp reality too please i beg you

That what the hogykou does it warps reality. He tanked his own kido 90 which stopped a counrty level attack from yhwach. That was going to destroy the serrite. Tanked blows from Gerard and dangai ichigo who both showed country level attacks

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Aizen also have feats of destroying beings that dont have reiastu

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Undre

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#162  Edited By Undre

@alextheboss: tell how does jigen seal aizen XD. You know the only reason kiskue could seal aizen was cuz he made the hogykou reject him by implanting kido inside him wayy befor he full evolved.

When he was weaked he activated it and made the hogykou reject him

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EpicHotFlame

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@undre said:

@epichotflame: it was directly stated karma can not aborbe natrual elements. Only chakra.

yh it cant absorb natural elements but when infused with energy matters, its absorb like chakra not only chakra

Rods arent immobilizing. The hogykou makes him adapt to any situations. Not only that his rods can be overpowered. This was shown by naruto.

no my guy, it depends on how much rod u have in u, in this case both otsutsukis spam the rods like nothing, momo spammed more than 8 simultaneously....an example of the hogyoko adapting to immobilisation? (cuz i read aizen took 5 minutes to resist immobilisation) and is this hogyoku aizen in this match? i dunno

Aizen cant be drained hogykou gives him a endless ammout of reiastu

lol i guess thats an endless amount of power for jigen and momo absorb and get even more stronger

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CocoUssyBreaker

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@cocoussybreaker said:

@epichotflame: How do you know what I am going to show you is a misunderstanding and not you making something up?

cuz undre and i think leothegreatest showed me scans of being able to sense matters or something like that with this similar type of argument but i would like to see what u were goin to show me, whether its the same thing or different

"Think" is classified as an opinion. You have to bring facts and prove to a discussion, not a thesis. No one in Bleach can sense matter that's ridiculous. They can manipulate the "soul" inside matter which is made out of reishi. I can't post the scan since it is a quote from the CFYOW light novel when Aura is stated by the narrator to manipulate "...she controlled the soul within nitrogen and constructed it into a barrier… "

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CocoUssyBreaker

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@dyuked said:

@cocoussybreaker: universal lvl lmao and i would like to see who is universal in bleach ? Send me the link to this famous debate who agree on statement when bleach character doesn't have a country lvl feat to keep that up

Lmao now bleach is universal when they don't even have feat to put them multi country lvl? Great by the way none of them cn breath in space good luck them trying to destroy a planet ahahah oh no a universe they will all suffocate or crushed or hurt by space radiation

Your words, not mine.

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EpicHotFlame

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@undre said:

KS works on guys who have spirits in them aswell. Shadow possession gets absorbed

can i aizen ebing able to absorb shadows?

That was almighty push stop wanking. His rinniegan lit up red meaning he was using a justu..

so basically u just came up with ur headcannon?, since when has all mighty push started cutting things?

That what the hogykou does it warps reality. He tanked his own kido 90 which stopped a counrty level attack from yhwach. That was going to destroy the serrite. Tanked blows from Gerard and dangai ichigo who both showed country level attacks

Aizen also have feats of destroying beings that dont have reiastu

can u show scans for each of the things ur saying instead of all at one place, its confusing on what scans is for which

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EpicHotFlame

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@epichotflame said:
@cocoussybreaker said:

@epichotflame: How do you know what I am going to show you is a misunderstanding and not you making something up?

cuz undre and i think leothegreatest showed me scans of being able to sense matters or something like that with this similar type of argument but i would like to see what u were goin to show me, whether its the same thing or different

"Think" is classified as an opinion. You have to bring facts and prove to a discussion, not a thesis. No one in Bleach can sense matter that's ridiculous. They can manipulate the "soul" inside matter which is made out of reishi. I can't post the scan since it is a quote from the CFYOW light novel when Aura is stated by the narrator to manipulate "...she controlled the soul within nitrogen and constructed it into a barrier… "

ooh its not similar to sensing microscopic things then

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Undre

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@epichotflame: okay that doesn't change anything aizen can still take them out with physical attacks.

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Right aizen is resisting kido restraints not only that myuri littler saids you cant stop reiastu flow lol. Which is what the rods do

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Lol jigen cant stay in form too long no only that aizen just wont spam energy attacks if he sees its not working. So mommo will also run out of juicy.. So aizen wrecks that have way of sealing him. The only wayy to seal is to make the. Hogyoku reject him via special kido

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Undre

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@epichotflame: Rukia and Quincy both have been shown to see and manipulate reshi particles

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AlexTheBoss

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@undre: Jigen sealed Naruto. Nartuo is multiple times more powerful than Aizen. It's not complicated.

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LeoTheGreatest

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@alextheboss:

Either should solo.

Not because they’re superior fighters but because in your headcanon they’re supposed to be superior.

At least Jigen does through sealing.

With rods that won’t pierce or immobilize Aizen? With a pot that can be negged by Aizen flexing?

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Undre

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@alextheboss: he just trapped him in a dimenson and beacsue he cant dimenson hop he was helpless. But thats not a issue for Aizen

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Asurakj

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#173  Edited By Asurakj

Jigen would rag doll Aizen with his physicals and seal him. Aizen doesn't have the stats to fight these guys one on one, he doesn't even have the stats to fight sauce and Naruto. Momo needed both adults to fight him while Jigen one shotted them when he got serious

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Dyuked

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@undre: i only see a town destroy there was no proof of an country lvl attack being made

If energy is equalized as you said momo could just absorb anything aizen would throw at him even absorbing aizen itself along with the hogyoku i bet he would eat it

I wonder what's stoping momo from destroying the earth and leave aizen suffocate in space and get clapped by space radiation?

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UltimateSage

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.............heh momo gon eat aizen haha

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AlexTheBoss

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@undre: Hmmm, that's true. If Jigen has no other way to seal Aizen or hold him down, you can argue would eventually win due to his immortality, but that's the only reason.

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AlexTheBoss

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@leothegreatest: I just think Aizen is a lot weaker than you do. If anything it's your head canon as you think Aizen is stronger than proven.

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BleachHub

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@bleachhub:

Chapter 683 we see Yhwach believe he nullified KS to then find out he couldn’t.

Because he was already under the illusion, no?

In turn back the pendulum we saw that Shinji sense through Aizens Kido illusion yet still be completely helpless against KS.

Feats for this kido illusion? Is it even remotely comparable to basic Genjutsu?

And throughout the series he’s used KS to take control of his opponents sense of sight, sound, touch, smell, taste, Reikaku, spiritual sensing, perception of time and even future clairvoyance.

This is true i suppose.

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EpicHotFlame

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@undre said:

@epichotflame: Rukia and Quincy both have been shown to see and manipulate reshi particles

thats cool, how is seeing reishi particles and seeing someone with no reishi in them, the same thing? but k

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Undre

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@dyuked said:

@undre: i only see a town destroy there was no proof of an country lvl attack being made

Its the seireitei which is stated to be a 10 day walk

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If energy is equalized as you said momo could just absorb anything aizen would throw at him even absorbing aizen itself along with the hogyoku i bet he would eat it

Except the hogykou can not be taken by aizen because it only obeys its master

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And Mommo took hours just to get half narutos chakra lol. And he has no feats of just turning someone as powerful as aizen into a fruit

I wonder what's stoping momo from destroying the earth and leave aizen suffocate in space and get clapped by space radiation?

Whats stoping aizen from just teleporting back lol. And like i said hes immortal. Last time i checked mommo had 0 planet level feats

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GhostWarren

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@undre: momoshiki isn't even close to planet level.

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Wanderez

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Draining a planet's surface with trees=planet level Momo.

Man, Naruto fans are something else!

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UltimateSage

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Holding the balances of three dimensions = Universal lv

Man, bleach fans are totally unique

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Wanderez

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@ultimatesage:

Quote it from THIS thread.. oh wait, you cant... ;-(

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Dyuked

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@undre: base on scaling from naruto and sasuke he should be and thanks to data book we know he should be way higher

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But not yet knocking naruto is also an impressive one which i'm sur you know an attack who slice the moon up didn't do hell even indra's arrow couldn't naruto character are easily multi country lvl

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To blow momoshiki attack it would take a continent lvl attack to do so t land= to country

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Earlier was based momo now fusion momoshiki he didn't drained naruto at based but the shadow not only immobilized naruto but drained him dry so him struggling in base will not count in fusion

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Based on this statement momo can destroy an entire solar system why would a planet give him a problem?

You said if momo destroy the planet he would just tp back that doesn't make sense if the planet is destroy he would tp back Where? The only thing waiting for him is suffocation

Energy equalised aizen would get drained as soon as the shadows reach him and don't u dare compare aizen energy to naruto based momo absorb bee easily and be would scale higher than aizen

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UltimateSage

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#186  Edited By UltimateSage

Soooooo glad I blocked the guy imo

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cupofreality

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#187  Edited By cupofreality  Online

Aizen murders them with swordplay, spiritual pressure, the black hole hado, & of course if he says “shatter” it’s already over. Aizen is leagues & bounds beyond them.

ALSO shinigami can traverse dimensions with relative ease. So he could battle field remove them if he desired.

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GhostWarren

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@dyuked: multi country at best. Lol at solar system.

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GhostWarren

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@dyuked: kinshiki statement is a hyperbole from a faulty databook.

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Dyuked

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@ghostwarren: it's not he absorb naruto sasuke and the kage's via the shadows this alone put him planetary and his dimmension has a nebula and stars on it bleach is hyperbole not naruto

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GhostWarren

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@dyuked: lol multi country at best. Please stop wanking naruto to levels they're not on.

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Undre

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@dyuked said:

@undre: base on scaling from naruto and sasuke he should be and thanks to data book we know he should be way higher

Naruto and sasuke has never done anything planetary and based on his showings his phyicals are like low tier bleach level

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But not yet knocking naruto is also an impressive one which i'm sur you know an attack who slice the moon up didn't do hell even indra's arrow couldn't naruto character are easily multi country lvl

Okay ichgio in vasto lorde form almost destroyed hell which is planet size dimension. That Ichigo is far weaker than aizen.

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To blow momoshiki attack it would take a continent lvl attack to do so t land= to country

bruhj thats doesnt mean other countries. Sasuke means the whole village

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Earlier was based momo now fusion momoshiki he didn't drained naruto at based but the shadow not only immobilized naruto but drained him dry so him struggling in base will not count in fusion

they were getting slapped around by kage fam. They have trash phyiscals.

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Based on this statement momo can destroy an entire solar system why would a planet give him a problem?

You said if momo destroy the planet he would just tp back that doesn't make sense if the planet is destroy he would tp back Where? The only thing waiting for him is suffocation

Energy equalised aizen would get drained as soon as the shadows reach him and don't u dare compare aizen energy to naruto based momo absorb bee easily and be would scale higher than aizen

Why are you using mistranslations. People living on a star that doesnt even make sense lol. In the anime it clearly shows he was harvesting a planet via god trees not a star.

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Now your going off the rails at this point bro bee being stronger than aizen? Aizen is comparable to a guy who can destroyed 3 dimensions just by getting angry. Also mommo didnt get all bees power it was only a samll fraction. Not only that i said aizen has a endless ammout of reiastu. Generated by the Hogyoku.

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Dyuked

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@ghostwarren: the shinju tree naruto cut tank 3 ten tails bijuu bomb naruto cut it in one swing

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Size shape

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Hokage naruto is way stronger than naruto war arc small planet lvl low balling

Momoshiki>naruto and should not scale to equal or under stop the low balling by scaling alone he should be planetary+

He also tank a combine attack from sasuke susano and naruto and was just floating exhausted

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Dyuked

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Lmao aizen. Was cut in half by this attack who wasn't even country lvl

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This attack was weak base momo this this

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Not only that the tree fusion momo cut with the wave of his hands is way more durable and will still be a higher feat

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Aizen get cut in half every time momo wave his hands and get drained or die by suffocation and space radiation exposure

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Saxz

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This thread is extremely troll infested

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Dyuked

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#196  Edited By Dyuked

@undre:

@undre:lands do mean country are you trying to outright the author?

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Still obito momo would stomp obito and obito's chakra formed a small planet almost earth size

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The shinjuu tree tank 3 ten tails bomb and one ten tails bomb was able to do this

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Now naruto cut the same tree and 1 attack

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Multi continent low balling view to it size and it was absorbing earth chakra for long it should be planet lvl and i'm sur you know how many joule of power to pull an moon in orbit ?

Momo>juubito

Momo>naruto war arc

Scaling alone put him ABOVE planetary

But you said earlier bleach is physically stronger pff i couldn't laugh even more show me where any one in bleach has ever lifted an entire island with 1 hands

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Naruto doesn't have hyperbole bleach is the one who's full of it

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LeoTheGreatest

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@alextheboss:

Your scaling is for the most part subjective, you don’t acknowledge the power gaps in the story and you ignore the power cliffs in the story.

Aizen would obviously seem weaker to you.

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LeoTheGreatest

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@bleachhub:

Because he was already under the illusion, no?

The Almighty allows one to see multiple futures and nullifies any abilities that it sees becomes immune to it. Yhwach was even confident that he saw past KS and broke through it.

Feats for this kido illusion? Is it even remotely comparable to basic Genjutsu?

The point of the feat is that Aizen tried to conceal himself from Shinji’s senses with an illusion but Shinji saw right through it. Then later was completely at the mercy of Kyoka Suigetsu despite the fact his senses were keen enough to sense Aizen before.

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BleachHub

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@bleachhub:

Because he was already under the illusion, no?

The Almighty allows one to see multiple futures and nullifies any abilities that it sees becomes immune to it. Yhwach was even confident that he saw past KS and broke through it.

He was put under KS way before he even activated the almighty, when he visited Aizen earlier in the arc.

Feats for this kido illusion? Is it even remotely comparable to basic Genjutsu?

The point of the feat is that Aizen tried to conceal himself from Shinji’s senses with an illusion but Shinji saw right through it. Then later was completely at the mercy of Kyoka Suigetsu despite the fact his senses were keen enough to sense Aizen before.

well a weak and basic illusion that doesn't even manipulate all the senses isn't a feat thatwould help KS stack up against Genjutsu. And i think ik what illusion you're referring to, but im rusty on bleach

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JOVIOLMA

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#200  Edited By JOVIOLMA

Honestly if you think Byakugan having greater perceptive power is enough proof for you to give it abilities it doesn't have and hasn't shown then, I am sure there's nothing I can do to change that line of reasoning. I could try to appeal to logic though cuz You're operating without a shred of proof and your logical conclusion isn't 100% accurate. Why? BECAUSE THE BYAKUGAN CLEARLY DOESN'T HAVE ALL THE VISUAL PERCEPTIVE ABILITIES OF THE SHARINGAN. SO WHY ASSUME IT HAS THE VISUAL PERCEPTION OF SEEING ILLUSION?

Cuz that's what grants the user the ability to see through illusions, this ability is inferior to that of the Byakugan suggesting the Byakugan would see better in illusions that a sharingan.

Byakugan has greater perceptive power than the sharingan-but it doesn't have the perceptive power of precog(analytical prediction)

Byakugan has greater perceptive power - but it doesn't have the perceptive power to trace and copy movements and seals.

Byakugan has greater perceptive power -but it doesn't have the perceptive power to replicate handwriting.

The Byakugan has it's own kind of precognition this was made clear though, but the Sharingan use this ability more often and provides the user a photographic memory, perceptive power has zero things to do with one's memory abilities this is a ability exclusive to the sharingan that has nothing to do with the perceptive power of it so is the ability to mimic attacks, it was made clear the sharingan was feared for this reason in the databook suggesting is a ability exclusive to the eye and other doujutsu couldn't accomplish.

byakugan has greater perceptive power -but now it's suddenly supposed to have the power to break illusions like the sharingan.? Do you see how the assumption crumbles logically. Despite it being superior Why would it skip having the rest of the Sharingan perceptive power and specifically choose this one? There's no connection only conjecture.

Sharingan can't break illusions once more I have the feeling you didn't read the entirety of my arguments, it's perceptive power allows you to see through them cuz it's superior to that of the sharingan. And the reason was brought though, Sharingan copy abilities is a power exclusive to this eye, once more photographic memory like the one the sharingan brings has nothing to do with perceptions you don't attain a perfect memory by having good perception both are not even related. I still don't know why you ignored my Rinnegan point, a six paths level Rinnegan allows Sasuke to counter the effects of IT, Momoshiki's power were superior to that of Sasuke of this version following both anime and manga where Naruto and Sasuke needed their combined forces to beat him and the novel confirms he would be able to keep up with them easily if it was individually(Momo even almost killed them in some occasions until the other comes and help) His Rinnegan would deal with this kind of illusory powers as well.

I don't know how else to say this but,there are several sharingan visual perceptive ability that the Byakugan doesn't posses. In other words you can no longer jump to the conclusion that Byakugan has all the perceptive abilities of the sharingan on a greater scale without proof-as it clearly doesn't. As of now the only greater perceptive power the byakugan is confirmed to have over the sharingan is greater telescopic and X-ray vision. You could give it any other sharingan perceptive ability but doing so without proof, would be headcanon.

All of them can be explained by simple reading the manga and databook. And the proof was already provided lol, there's a scan saying that the perceptive power of the sharingan allows you to see through illusions, that's what the perceptive power does, nothing more, and there's other saying that the Byakugan is > this characteristic. And X-Ray vision the sharingan already possess I assume you should know that lol.