Ahsoka Tano vs Savage Opress

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nfactor1995

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Season 7 Ahsoka. Season 5 Savage. Fight takes place in the Mandalorian throne room, starting distance of 15 yards, to the death. Both have their standard lightsaber(s) for both rounds.

  1. Lightsaber duel
  2. All-out fight

Who wins each round and why?

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Tano has a chance round 1. Savage has the physical advantage but I could see Ashoka evading and probing for openings. I’d still say Savage 6.5/10.

Savage’s raw power would probably overwhelm her.

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wholewheat

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clone wars ahsoka was at worst a hair below maul. maul>>savage. ahsoka destroys

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Warlockmage

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clone wars ahsoka was at worst a hair below maul. maul>>savage. ahsoka destroys

she was casually disarmed 3 times and Filoni even said she was well below Maul.

you don't even proper scaling or quotes to back up this fictitious statement anymore. Filoni mentioned it took everything Ahsoka had to merely fight Maul and the breaks in the fight were to show how exhausted she was.

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@warlockmage:

He didn’t say “well” below Maul he just said Maul was a better duelist and that she had to push her limits to COMPETE with him.

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Hypnos0929

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I'd still bet on Savage. Ashoka goes for blade locks too often and trying to block a full swing from Savage is basically a death sentence. She's got the agility to get in close and even kill him but she NEEDS to be quick about it and really avoid any type of confrontation that involves a blade lock or where he can grab her. So round 1 Savage 6/10.

Round 2 I'd toss a coin.

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Bayman007

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#8  Edited By Bayman007

Ahsoka beats him both rounds.

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Ezra_

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@hypnos0929: A weaker Ahsoka blade locked with Grievous.

Savage physicals aren't a massive advantage.

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Hypnos0929

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@ezra_: Grievous is not Savage. Grievous couldn't push back Kenobi, Savage knocked Anakin and Kenobi back.

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Ezra_

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@ezra_: Grievous is not Savage. Grievous couldn't push back Kenobi, Savage knocked Anakin and Kenobi back.

What are you talking about, Grievous has pushed back plenty of force users.

He even landed a kick on Maul.

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Red12789

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@ezra_: Grievous is not Savage. Grievous couldn't push back Kenobi, Savage knocked Anakin and Kenobi back.

In clone Wars he pushed back Kenobi multiple times to the point where Obi Wan needed the force to gain the upper hand. He also kicked Maul.

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@red12789 said:
@hypnos0929 said:

@ezra_: Grievous is not Savage. Grievous couldn't push back Kenobi, Savage knocked Anakin and Kenobi back.

In clone Wars he pushed back Kenobi multiple times to the point where Obi Wan needed the force to gain the upper hand. He also kicked Maul.

Kenobi clearly blade locks with Grievous multiple times during their fight, easily I might add, and he beat his metallic butt in episode 3. Savage threw Kenobi and Anakin back, and Kenobi needed to fight Savage in a small space just to prevent him from making full force swings. Grievous had skill but he wasnt stronger than Savage.

That point is further proven by the fact that Dooku got knocked back, far back, and down by Savage yet he regularly dueled with Grievous in order to train him.

Also landing a kick on Maul doesn't show strength, it shows skill.

@ezra_ said:
@hypnos0929 said:

@ezra_: Grievous is not Savage. Grievous couldn't push back Kenobi, Savage knocked Anakin and Kenobi back.

What are you talking about, Grievous has pushed back plenty of force users.

He even landed a kick on Maul.

Most force users that Grievous fought were not on Kenobi's level.

Also landing a kick on Maul doesn't show strength it shows skill. Notice how Maul beat Savage, not via Strength but through skill in order to assert his dominance.

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No, Ahsoka isn't beating or fighting evenly with Maul or Grievous unless the plot demands it. Savage wins

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Bayman007

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Even Qui Gon beats Savage. Ahsoka > Maul > Savage.

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Red12789

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@hypnos0929 said:

@red12789 said:
@hypnos0929 said:

@ezra_: Grievous is not Savage. Grievous couldn't push back Kenobi, Savage knocked Anakin and Kenobi back.

In clone Wars he pushed back Kenobi multiple times to the point where Obi Wan needed the force to gain the upper hand. He also kicked Maul.

Kenobi clearly blade locks with Grievous multiple times during their fight, easily I might add, and he beat his metallic butt in episode 3. Savage threw Kenobi and Anakin back, and Kenobi needed to fight Savage in a small space just to prevent him from making full force swings. Grievous had skill but he wasnt stronger than Savage.

That point is further proven by the fact that Dooku got knocked back, far back, and down by Savage yet he regularly dueled with Grievous in order to train him.

Also landing a kick on Maul doesn't show strength, it shows skill.

@ezra_ said:
@hypnos0929 said:

@ezra_: Grievous is not Savage. Grievous couldn't push back Kenobi, Savage knocked Anakin and Kenobi back.

What are you talking about, Grievous has pushed back plenty of force users.

He even landed a kick on Maul.

Most force users that Grievous fought were not on Kenobi's level.

Also landing a kick on Maul doesn't show strength it shows skill. Notice how Maul beat Savage, not via Strength but through skill in order to assert his dominance.

Savage was enraged when he fought Anakin and Obi-Wan. When Savage is bloodlusted, his prowess increases immediately, for example, he was able to choke Dooku and Ventress at the same time, withstand dozens of bullets through his stomach and back, and force blasted an small army of droids away. Also, later on Kenobi was able to blade-lock with Maul and Savage at the same time.

I'm aware that Kenobi could blade lock with Grievous, but you said that he Grievous wasn't able to push back Kenobi in a fight, which is a bit misleading. I agree that Savage is probably stronger physically than Grievous, but not by too much.

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deactivated-5ee7bc79c5c93

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clone wars ahsoka was at worst a hair below maul. maul>>savage. ahsoka destroys

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Just gonna address the Savage vs Kenobi and Skywalker fight. First he may have been bloodlusted and Rage Boosted at that point. I mean he was just betrayed and electrocuted/Force pushed.

Second the setting was honestly perfect for his duel and the tight hallways not only compliment his strength advantage, it also takes away Kenobi and Skywalker’s mobility.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@warlockmage: Lol Filoni actually said “Maul is the better swordsman, but she was able to fight ON HIS LEVEL”

Lol you basically highlighted your Ahsoka lowball by purposely writing a false quote.

OT: Ahsoka should win high difficulty both rounds due to Maul scaling

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@bayman007: No Qui Gon’s best feat is losing to a version of Maul that was completely featless. Therefore Qui Gon is also basically featless.

Savage on the other hand was beaten by a version of Maul who by feats is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TPM Maul which makes sense because his hatred skyrocketed after he was cut in half.

Savage would stomp Qui Gon by stats alone

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Mrsportsguy13

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Savage wins all out due to his feat of force choking Ventress and Dooku simultaneously. Sabers only I'm not sure. I'd probably lean towards Savage ever so slightly. He was able to put up a great fight against Anakin and Obi-Wan, something Ahsoka probably coudn't do.

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Red12789

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Savage should be able to win

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Bayman007

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#23  Edited By Bayman007

@emmafrostxmen: I tottaly disagree with that. Savages unknown form and unrifined style does not grant him any win against this Jedi Master, it leaves him very exploitable and he will be countered each and everytime. A highly trained Maul has nothing to do with this.

Qui Gon stomps Him in a normal 1v1.

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Bayman007

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#24  Edited By Bayman007

Filoni said Maul was the Stronger sword fighter, not a Better fighter lol... we worked that out for our selves without his comments.

Ahsoka had to push her self to beat him and used his own strength against him to win.

Savage doesn't stand a chance using strength whilst wildly flapping his saber around. She trounces him

Ahsoka > Maul > Savage

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Lord_Tenebrous

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If we're ignoring consistency and clinging to Ahsoka's outlying high-end feats(competing with Maul), then Savage gets his own outlying high end showings too(forcing back Anakin & Obi-Wan while injured and tired).

Consistently or inconsistently, Savage stomps.

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@bayman007: Don’t mind EmmaFrostXmen, user is always talking about anyone lowballing her favorite characters while lowballing different characters ...

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@emmafrostxmen:

I have to laugh, it’s embarrassing. Talking about someone lowballing Ahsoka because he thinks she would loose a fight (which is no lowballing whatsoever) but LITERALLY stating Qui-Gon “featless” and “Savage would stomp” it’s honestly just hilarious and you should stop.

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Savage should win, would be a great fight tho.

Ahsoka is certainly more skilled but Savage’s pure brute strength would overpower her after some time (kind of like the Adi Gallia fight went down.)

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@flolikeyou: Qui Gon is featless. I love him as a character, but he fought a featless version of Maul, and got defeated mid difficulty.

TCW Maul >>>>> TPM Maul by feats which makes sense because his hatred increased massively after he was cut in half

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DrunkHC

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#31  Edited By DrunkHC

Qui gon even in the EU has no impressive feats just a lot of hype Qui gon in canon did nothing to be considered as relevant.

This will only change if Disney decides to explore the character, maybe it will happen at a HQ or at a Disney + show

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Bayman007

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Lol at Ahsoka merely competing with Maul, she could do that before Season 7...before she actually beat him.

Ahsoka is now > Maul. The highly trained Maul is firmly above his brother, so which ever way you want to slice it, Savage is getting his ass handed to him Every time by this former Jedi.

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thebluedragon20

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R1 Ahsoka is far more skilled and agile, as long as she runs circles around him and does not engage his strength, she should win.

R2: extremely close and difficult fight. If Savage gets enraged, ahsoka is getting ragdolled. I say ahsoka 6/10 in very close fights.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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Lol at Ahsoka merely competing with Maul, she could do that before Season 7...before she actually beat him.

Ahsoka is now > Maul. The highly trained Maul is firmly above his brother, so which ever way you want to slice it, Savage is getting his ass handed to him Every time by this former Jedi.

Lol at using teenage Ahsoka's outlying showing against a past-prime Maul to level her above Savage, who has parity with General Grievous himself. Consistently, late-war Ahsoka's feats demonstrate that she is nowhere near Maul or Savage:

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Teenage, student Ahsoka has no business competing with the top tiers like Kenobi, Maul, Anakin, Ventress or Savage. Never has, never will. Not as so young an age, not until Rebels. Inconsistencies won't change that.

Savage could compete with Gallia, who in turn could keep up with Grievous. Not even TCW Kenobi could do this, and Ahsoka at this point in time comes nowhere near Kenobi/Anakin. She's getting trounced, Halsey style.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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#35  Edited By Lord_Tenebrous

If Ahsoka gets her Maul feat, regardless of consistency, Savage gets his Obi-Wan & Anakin feat and still bulldozes:

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"Savage is engaged in a heated lightsaber battle with Obi-Wan and Anakin in the frigate hangar."

-- StarWars.com: Episode Gallery

"Savage then battered his way back to the frigate's hangar, past Obi-Wan and Anakin. The weary warrior had no interest in conquest, only escape."

-- StarWars.com: Biography Gallery

"After a grueling fight with Count Dooku and Asajj Ventress, Savage batters his way back to the frigate's hangar, past Obi-Wan and Anakin and a squadron of battle droids. The weary warrior had no interest in conquest, only escape."

-- StarWars.com: Video Guide

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Red12789

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If Ahsoka gets her Maul feat, regardless of consistency, Savage gets his Obi-Wan & Anakin feat and still bulldozes:

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"Savage is engaged in a heated lightsaber battle with Obi-Wan and Anakin in the frigate hangar."

-- StarWars.com: Episode Gallery

"Savage then battered his way back to the frigate's hangar, past Obi-Wan and Anakin. The weary warrior had no interest in conquest, only escape."

-- StarWars.com: Biography Gallery

"After a grueling fight with Count Dooku and Asajj Ventress, Savage batters his way back to the frigate's hangar, past Obi-Wan and Anakin and a squadron of battle droids. The weary warrior had no interest in conquest, only escape."

-- StarWars.com: Video Guide

Exactly lol. It seems rather unfair to give Ahsoka her high-end feats, and not do the same with Savage lmao.

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Bayman007

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@lord_tenebrous: This is season 7 Ahsoka, who beat Maul, who is and will always be above Savage.

So lol right back at you.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@bayman007:

Season 7 Ahsoka hasn't used her lightsabers since she left the Order, and all the showings I presented are from that general time period. Heck, one takes place during the arc itself. Like I said, late-war Ahsoka is consistently shown to be vastly inferior to her masters and their relative peers. As it should be.

What you're doing would be the equivalent of me pointing out that Rebels Ahsoka struggled against a single Inquisitor on Malachor, so clearly she's bottom-tier fodder even in her prime. Ignoring the fact that she outclassed multiple Inquisitors at once, held the upper hand over Maul and almost immediately after near-equaled Vader. Inconsistent outliers are inconsistent outliers.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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Red12789

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@lord_tenebrous: This is season 7 Ahsoka, who beat Maul, who is and will always be above Savage.

So lol right back at you.

Unfortunately, several circumstantial factors played a large part in S7 Ahsoka beating Maul. Not only that, but Ahsoka is Filoni's favourite character, which might partially explain why a Padawan Ahsoka, albeit a very skilled padawan, could beat a Maul who could defeat multiple Jedi Masters, including a slightly pre-prime Kenobi.

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Bayman007

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#42  Edited By Bayman007

@lord_tenebrous:

We are very far apart on this, and i'm sure we are not going to reach a compromise what you will be happy with, especially since you have outright said that season 7 Ahsoka has no business competing with the top tiers like Kenobi, Maul, Anakin, Ventress. And that Savage would bulldoze her LOL, which is simply not true. At all. She has been teaching Jedi Masters lessons since we've known her.

It would be a massive stretch for me to concede that Season 7 Ahsoka & Maul are even, and she would only beat Savage 6/10 times... for me this would be going backwards, considering i didn't give her enough credit entering into the final TCW season. I changed my opinion after the season finished. So i'm sticking with my original post thank you.

Season 7 Ahsoka > Maul > Savage. She beats him down.

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Bayman007

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#43  Edited By Bayman007

@red12789:

The way i see it, the large factors that lead to her win against Maul were in fact her ligtsaber skills, her unarmed skills, her agility, her fearlessness and her determination.

I'm not going to Partially put her win against Maul down to favoratism, sorry mate.

Maul is one of my favorite canonical SW characters by the way.

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Red12789

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#44  Edited By Red12789

@bayman007 said:

@red12789:

The way i see it, the large factors that lead to her win against Maul were in fact her ligtsaber skills, her unarmed skills, her agility, her fearlessness and her determination.

I'm not going to Partially put her win against Maul down to favoratism, sorry mate. Maul is one of my favotite SW characters by the way

Not really. Yes I do agree that those factors played a part to a certain extent, but Maul was holding back, and his cockiness and desire to team up with Ahsoka to defeat Sidious played their parts in Ahsoka's victory. Maul disarmed Ahsoka several times, and disarming people is somewhat a show of solid superiority.

I never said you're favouritism made you think she wins, but rather that the fact that Filoni liked Ahsoka drove him to portray her as someone who could hold her own against Maul, even though Maul's feats suggest that he should've beaten even a skilled padawan without much difficulty. And to think that Ahsoka beats Maul&Savage is kind of absurd, though I don't mean to criticise your opinion.

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Red12789

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@lord_tenebrous:

We are very far apart on this, and i'm sure we are not going to reach a compromise what you will be happy with, especially since you have outright said that season 7 Ahsoka has no business competing with the top tiers like Kenobi, Maul, Anakin, Ventress. And that Savage would bulldoze her LOL, which is simply not true. At all.

It would be a massive stretch for me to concede that Season 7 Ahsoka & Maul are even, and she would only beat Savage 6/10 times... for me this would be going backwards, considering i didn't give her enough credit entering into the final TCW season. I changed my opinion after the season finished. So i'm sticking with my original post thank you.

Season 7 Ahsoka > Maul > Savage. She beats him down.

I agree with the fact that Ahsoka can beat Savage, though not easily and the outcome of the fight may vary according to the location, but S7 Ahsoka>Maul is a bit over the top, and Ahsoka's fight with Maul is a bit wanked.

And @lord_tenebrous, I hardly find Ventress, Maul, or even late TCW Kenobi to be top tier (debatable). If Ventress was actually top tier, then Dooku would literally be like god tier, since he was fully capable of fodderising Ventress with the force, and could defeat her handily in sabers too.

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Bayman007

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#46  Edited By Bayman007

@red12789: Nothing you said there makes much difference to how it stands. She is superior to Maul as i have explained. She pursued and drove him back, pushed her self, and used his strength against him. He had his chance to kill her, when she was unarmed and failed. Which is what will happen time after time.

Are you talking about another thread in the last part of your post?

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Bayman007

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Red12789

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@red12789: Nothing you said there makes much difference to how it stands. She is superior to Maul as i have explianed. She pursued and drove him back, pushed her self, and used his strength against him. He had his chance to kill her, when she was unarmed and failed. Which is what will happen time after time.

Are you talking about another thread in the last part of your post?

If Dave Filoni admits that Ahsoka is < Maul, at least in sabers, that really isn't too debatable. The factors I stated do make a huge difference, not just in that fight, but in many other fights as well. The reason why Maul failed to kill unarmed Ahsoka was once again circumstantial, since he technically only lost that part of the fight due to the environment. If the environment was different, he would've succeeded more often than not. Going by pure feats and scaling, it barely makes sense for S7 Ahsoka to be able to defeat Maul.

And yes, I was talking about another thread.

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Bayman007

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#49  Edited By Bayman007

@red12789: No he did not. He mearly pointed out what we already knew, that Maul was a Stronger sword fighter and is overconfident. Not better, or greater than her. The one area he has an advantage over her with, she can use against him.

No offence, but next time can you tag me in the relevant hread you want to talk about, otherwise this thread stands a bigger chance of being derailed. Thanks

So again, nothing you said changes the fact that Season 7 Ahsoka is > than Maul.

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Red12789

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What? Filoni specifically stated the Maul was a stronger swordsman, that it was taking a toll on Ahsoka to compete on his level, and that he knew Maul had to lose. That, along with Maul's feats, suggest that Maul>S7 Ahsoka, and you have provided no evidence that suggests otherwise, other than that one controversial, plot-driven and circumstantial fight.

"No offence, but next time can you tag me in the relevant hread you want to talk about, otherwise this thread stands a bigger chance of being derailed. Thanks"

I saw no point in that since everyone was basically agreeing that Maul and Savage would stomp lol. But I will do that in the future.

"So again, nothing you said changes the fact that Season 7 Ahsoka is > than Maul"

Filoni's opinion+Maul's superior feats up to this point both suggest that Maul>S7 Ahsoka, and nothing you said adequately contradicts that.