In canon continuity EU, it'd be interesting for Asajj Ventress to find herself, for once, on the number-positive side of a 2-on-1.
Ahsoka Tano was an exceptional, skilled apprentice during the Clone Wars who held her own against the notorious cyborg warrior General Grievous, and as an adult during the Imperial Era, managed the same against Darth Vader over the course of a savage, grueling contest in the heart of a Sith Temple. She can most certainly handle herself here, and one-on-one, she has a relatively decent shot at taking out either foe (Ventress should be either way, but perhaps not Quinlan Vos, who actually rivaled the Dark Lords upon unleashing his dark side). Against both combatants, though, Tano has no chance.
As far as how things are depicted in Star Wars: The Clone Wars and Star Wars Rebels, Ahsoka Tano vs Asajj Ventress would be a spectacular confrontation. Narratively, they're light side/dark side versions of each other, separated only by age. Adult Ventress has the definitive advantage over teenage Tano, as adult Tano's victory over teenage Ventress would be certain, but when both are adults? Who knows? Both are incredibly accomplished against all manner of elite foes -- Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker, Darth Maul, Darth Vader, General Grievous, Savage Opress, etc... Quinlan Vos is just another Jedi Master, but on that title alone he's quite the threat. Tano won't withstand their paired efforts.
And I'm yet to see anything that indicates Ahsoka is above Dooku in Canon. Or has any advantage over him in Sabers & Force-Power.
And that's ignoring this:
There's also the problem of her being officially, and implied to be inferior to Rebels Maul:
But in case that doesn't convince you, check dis out:
Referencing Malachor here.
Given that the “logical choice” is pairing Maul with “the weakest of the Jedi”, it then follows that Maul is the strongest of the group. Furthermore, the gap between Ahsoka and Maul is noticeable enough that Kanan (and Ahsoka) are willing to trust Maul with Ezra (Ahsoka and Kanan clearly care for him and likely won’t place him in danger unless absolutely necessary).
This is reflected in Maul and Ahsoka’s respective performances with the Inquisitorius.
In both cases, we have Ahsoka’s superiority to the Inquisitors being evident (less so for the second clip, but I’m letting that slide). In the first clip, she drives them back with some effort, and in the second she (along with Kanan) drive back another pair of Inquisitors. To contrast, Maul casually annihilates them:
Which is supported by the claim that Maul “does so easily” in reference to defeating the Inquisitors. Ahsoka handles the Inquisitors the way Maul handles Qui-Gon in TPM--by taking them out in an extended fight. Maul handles the Inquisitors the way Sidious handles the B-Team in ROTS. From the multiple pieces of evidence that support the claim, we can establish that Maul is indeed a superior to Ahsoka as of Rebels, by a noticeable margin nonetheless.
There's also this quote from Matt Martin about Rebels Maul in comparison to his TCW self:
So this old, rusty Maul managing to keep up with Ahsoka and ragdolling the Inquisitors while Ahsoka, Kanan & Ezra chat is a testament to how powerful a Younger Maul is in comparison.
And being out-of-shape is pretty damaging to any Force user:
An out-of-practice Kenobi is exhuasted after climbing a small distance to save Owen:
1. A small climb almost completely drained him. A small climb anyone like Padawan Ahsoka wouldn't be affected by. Let alone TPM Kenobi.
2. He can't react to an attack from Black Krrsantan. Again. It's something TPM Kenobi would have no issue with. Since that version can casually block multiple blaster bolts while chopping droids.
3. The third page speaks for itself.
And Maul had to live off bugs and remained in far, far worse conditions when compared to Obi-Wan.
Inb4 "Maul was amped!!!" Canon DS Nexus's are lackluster, and barely have any presence. Unlike their Legends counterparts. As shown by a weaker S2 Ezra who only drew on a bit of emotion handily beating Seventh Sister, who managed to casually block a swing from an angry, and the more physically impressive Fifth Brother, when her back was turned.
The only DS Nexus of actual worth is the one in Vader's castle.
So the fact that an out-of-shape Maul matched Ahsoka, when he was living in worse conditions than Kenobi. Is not a good look. And shits on the idea of her being Vader-tier.
And there's also the fact that Vader was strictly going for Sabers against her. And not abusing his MASSIVE Force advantage. Which won't happen in an all-out fight. Cause it ain't written by Filoni to give Ahsoka a chance.
And she didn't give Vader a "good fight" as some pretend she did. She was dispatched in less than a minute in pure Sabers and was struggling against him:
1. Vader gets Ahsoka off of him without making a noise, and with one hand. And then has her gritting her teeth just by clashing:
2. Vader breaks Ahsoka’s guard early in their duel, and pushes her back:
3. Vader pushed Ahsoka to the right with a swing. Almost similar to what Maul did to Inquisitors:
Maul doing something similar to Seventh Sister with his Saber clash:
4. Vader presses Ahsoka and drives her back and makes her struggle more:
5. Vader's assault makes Ahsoka struggle to keep up with him, and pushes her back:
6. Vader has her struggling and gritting her teeth just by clashing. Breaks Ahsoka’s guard, again. And casually Force-Pushed her:
The above speaks for itself. Ahsoka was not matching or even challenging Vader. She was delaying the inevitable. And barely doing so, at that.
So two people who were actually giving Dooku a challenge, versus someone who was getting challenged and stalemated by a Pre-Prime Rebels Maul. And low-diffed by Rebels Vader.
Sabers: Duo. Both gave Dooku a challenge. And I mean a legit challenge.
Force-Power: An inferior Dooku scales to AoTC Yoda who is > TPM Yoda who scales above a Pre-TPM Yoda that stopped a mountain. Ahsoka hasn't shown any feats to say she's even above Maul. Let alone someone that's > Mountains stopper Yoda.
Duo was pressing Dooku, were they? Not bad. That means this is actually debatable. Ahsoka was able to avoid getting ROFLstomped by Vader though, so she should still be comparable in saber skill. As someone who considers Rebels Ahsoka to be (roughly) on Dooku's tier, the duo should do at least as well against her.
@cryolancer47: She still did way better than most who've fought Disney Vader, so I wouldn't discount it as a feat. She did way better than Kanan and Ezra did, and also did much better against the Inqusitor duo that consistently fought evenly with them, so at bare minimum, she is well above Kanan, Ezra, and Inquisitors. But then, so is this duo, so there is that.
@shroudofsorrow: She only did so well because Vader was going for a pure Sabers only battle, instead of using the Force like he did with almost everyone he fought before and after (Kirak, Kenobi, Luke, etc) due to Filoni-Force being active to allow Ahsoka to survive and not get pasted. While Ahsoka was allowed to use it to Force-Push him mid-swing.
And even with such powerful PIS hindering Vader from doing Vader things. He still low-diffed her in pure Sabers, broke her guard, and pushed her back throughout the fight without even groaning like he does when he gets any actual challenge such as against Luke, Kenobi, Kirak, etc.
And using fodder such as S2 Kanan & Ezra as an example isn't good. They're the same dudes who, at worst, struggle with Inquisitors who are < The GI in the hierarchy of Darksiders.
And at best, stalemate them until they escape and or get help.
So they're not the best to use to show that Ahsoka is better in comparison. Cause the likes of Kanan, Cal, and Ezra are nothing to any legit Force user. And so are the Inquisitors.
@shroudofsorrow: She only did so well because Vader was going for a pure Sabers only battle, instead of using the Force like he did with almost everyone he fought before (Kirak, Kenobi, Luke, etc) due to Filoni-Force being active to allow Ahsoka to survive and not get pasted.
And even with such powerful PIS hindering Vader from doing Vader things. He still low-diffed her in pure Sabers, broke her guard, and pushed her back throughout the fight without even groaning like he does when he gets any actual challenge such as against Luke, Kenobi, Kirak, etc.
And using fodder such as S2 Kanan & Ezra as an example isn't good. They're the same dudes who, at worst, struggle with Inquisitors who are < The GI in the hierarchy of Darksiders.
And at best, stalemate them until they escape and or get help.
So they're not the best to use to show that Ahsoka is better in comparison. Cause the likes of Kanan, Cal, and Ezra are nothing to any legit Force user. And so are the Inquisitors.
But I was sort of referring to skill. Obviously Force power is a different matter, but in terms of raw saber skill, Ahsoka still did better than others have. I don't really see Vos being any more successful if he had to take Ahsoka's place in a pure saber skill contest.
@wordsbeyondfic0: Vader would beat this duo. I recognize saying that with my current avatar being what it is isn't a great look, but I also don't think too many people will say I'm wrong on this one ;)
@shroudofsorrow: She only did so well because Vader was going for a pure Sabers only battle, instead of using the Force like he did with almost everyone he fought before (Kirak, Kenobi, Luke, etc) due to Filoni-Force being active to allow Ahsoka to survive and not get pasted.
And even with such powerful PIS hindering Vader from doing Vader things. He still low-diffed her in pure Sabers, broke her guard, and pushed her back throughout the fight without even groaning like he does when he gets any actual challenge such as against Luke, Kenobi, Kirak, etc.
And using fodder such as S2 Kanan & Ezra as an example isn't good. They're the same dudes who, at worst, struggle with Inquisitors who are < The GI in the hierarchy of Darksiders.
And at best, stalemate them until they escape and or get help.
So they're not the best to use to show that Ahsoka is better in comparison. Cause the likes of Kanan, Cal, and Ezra are nothing to any legit Force user. And so are the Inquisitors.
But I was sort of referring to skill. Obviously Force power is a different matter, but in terms of raw saber skill, Ahsoka still did better than others have. I don't really see Vos being any more successful if he had to take Ahsoka's place in a pure saber skill contest.
Ye. And I was pointing out that despite Vader not going at full-power, he was still low-diffing Ahsoka in pure Sabers.
And by the end of DD, Vos is superior to Ventress, and legit gave Dooku a challenge. So he would, at worst do slightly worse than Ahsoka. But not bad enough to die.
Giving Dooku a challenge is better than any Saber skill feat Ahsoka has before getting low-diffed by Vader. And scaling above Asajj kicks him up even more.
Putting Vos & Asajj together gives the duo a 100% of winning this. And lowers Ahsoka's chances even more.
@wordsbeyondfic0: Vader would beat this duo. I recognize saying that with my current avatar being what it is isn't a great look, but I also don't think too many people will say I'm wrong on this one ;)
I don't see why not, prime Vader has faced stronger competition and Jedi.
Ahsoka is comfortably above this duo during this era. Judging by her performance against a foe far superior to Count Dooku on that hellish Dark side amped nexus that is Malachor, this won't be a battle hard fought and won, but mearly another subpar test for the dual lightsaber wielding master!
Ahsoka is comfortably above this duo during this era. Judging by her performance against a foe far superior to Count Dooku on that hellish Dark side amped nexus that is Malachor, this won't be a battle hard fought and won, but mearly another subpar test for the dual lightsaber wielding master!
1. Ahsoka was being pushed back, had her guard broken, and had her whole body move with a swing like Maul did to Seventh Sister, by Vader in pure Sabers. She didn't do as good as Ventress or Vos against Dooku. And didn't do as well as you're claiming either. So unless you're trying to imply that Ahsoka can now beat people like Dooku. Someone who is far above her by feats, accolades, and statements. Claiming she can because she essentially got low-diffed by Vader in pure Sabers is absurd. And the fact that she's implied to be inferior to an out-of-shape/out-of-practice Maul who was living in a dumb, in and out of universe, makes your claim even worse.
2. The Malachor amping darksiders is questionable and plain unquantifiable. The Inquisitors didn't seem to have increased in level. And neither did Vader or Maul. And we don't know who was amped by how much. So bringing it up means nothing.
And that's ignoring the fact that Canon DS Nexus amps are either non-existent or plain trash, except for Mortis & Vader’s castle. Which are the only impressive ones we've seen so far.
It’s stated by either Fact File or another guide that while Kenobi was pushed by Anakin, they were evenly matched. So being pushed back ≠ vastly weaker. Ashoka breaks locks and overpowers blade struggles various times with Vader, even at the end. So do other characters when they are relative. And Vader pushing Ashokas body weight means nothing. She’s a youngish female. She doesn’t weigh much.
Dooku has no accolade on par with being a Jedi that can go “toe to toe” with Vader, someone who can fight him to a draw or all the other ferocious/savage statements. He has no accolade of being a Vader/Sidious tier combatant
And the Rebels Maul points have been long addressed, Filoni blantantly says Ashoka > Maul on neutral ground even if we ignore context
She is below Rebels Maul, given she had to retreat during their fight, Maul performed better against the amped Inquisitors, and we have confirmation that Maul was the strongest of the team via Starwars.com:
This Maul is weaker than prime TCW Maul, who is inferior to Dooku by feats (Just look at AOTC Dooku's performance against Yoda vs TCW Maul's performance against Sidious), both of these fighters gave Dooku trouble on their own, each nearly winnin in 1v1, so they would clearly solo Rebels Ahsoka.
No, he is not, because Ahsoka didin't give him a fight, the moment Vader stopped being mentall hindered she was quickly overpowered and had to be saved by time travel (and she was losing even against a hindered Vader, as he won their first encounter), so she doesn't scale to him, otherwise Vader would struggle against an amped inquisitor because Ahsoka did so, he clearly wouldn't, given Inquisitors are fodder to him, even with the Malachor amp, as they are weaker than Maul, who fears confronting Vader (also another reason why Ahsoka doesn't scale to Vader, given Maul is stronger than her) also Vader is presented as a greater threat than the Inquisitors and Maul narratively.
Therefore we have:
Rebels Vader >> Anakin > Dooku > Quinlan and Ventress > TCW Maul >> Rebels Maul >> Rebels Ahsoka.
Pretty sure they would solo as they have shown better feats than Maul.
They are not Maul level.
Ventress had troubles with Savage.
That was before Dark Disciple, the novel takes place later, she matches Dooku in it, so she's clearly gotten stronger since that fight, lowballing she would be close to prime TCW Maul level which is more than enough to solo Ahsoka since she loses to Rebels Maul.
Pretty sure they would solo as they have shown better feats than Maul.
They are not Maul level.
Ventress had troubles with Savage.
That was before Dark Disciple, the novel takes place later, she matches Dooku in it, so she's clearly gotten stronger since that fight, lowballing she would be close to prime TCW Maul level which is more than enough to solo Ahsoka since she loses to Rebels Maul.
Ahsoka didin't give him a fight, the moment Vader stopped being mentall hindered she was quickly overpowered and had to be saved by time travel (and she was losing even against a hindered Vader, as he won their first encounter), so she doesn't scale to him, otherwise Vader would struggle against an amped inquisitor because Ahsoka did so, he clearly wouldn't, given Inquisitors are fodder to him, even with the Malachor amp, as they are weaker than Maul, who fears confronting Vader (also another reason why Ahsoka doesn't scale to Vader, given Maul is stronger than her) also Vader is presented as a greater threat than the Inquisitors and Maul narratively.
Therefore we have:
Rebels Vader >> Anakin > Dooku > Quinlan and Ventress > TCW Maul >> Rebels Maul >> Rebels Ahsoka.
You say that Ventress is stronger, because she fought against Dooku, and I said that Ahsoka fought against Vader.
Why is one feat not valid and another is?
Because the Ventress duel showed parity (+ scaling from Quinlan) while the Ahsoka duel clearly didin't.
My argument wasn't that Ventress dueled Dooku, it was that she matched him, something Ahsoka is unable to do given her performance against opponents way below the count.
Quite the desperate strawman argument from your part.
Pretty sure they would solo as they have shown better feats than Maul.
They are not Maul level.
Ventress had troubles with Savage.
That was before Dark Disciple, the novel takes place later, she matches Dooku in it, so she's clearly gotten stronger since that fight, lowballing she would be close to prime TCW Maul level which is more than enough to solo Ahsoka since she loses to Rebels Maul.
Ventress got killed by force lightning. she sucks
She still did better against a stronger opponent than the one Ahsoka ran away from and is outright stated to be weaker to.
Running away from Maul doesn't mean anything. Maul is just a old man with impaired thinking who loses every fight he was in.
Yes it does, as Ahsoka retreated because she was visibly overwhelmed, Maul was winning the duel, he also has superior performance against the amped inquisitors, and is outright stated to be stronger by canonical sources, i don't know how more clear you want it to be.
Age made Maul weaker, but he's still superior to Ahsoka by feats, so it is obvious that people who scale to Dooku beat her as well.
@daddyprometheus: id argue that’s a huge anti feat for maul considering ahsoka confidently left him with kanan who was blind at the time.
the quote implying maul is above ahsoka to an unspecified degree is canceled out by the nexus they were on (confirmed 4 times over including by the episodes script). since there’s no direct scaling at that point we go off of feats to which ahsoka’s are better. maul has nothing on par with pressing amped vader for a time.
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