Ahsoka Tano VS Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus

Thats fine. Her skills as a padawan refine to the point of her duels with inquisitors, and Vader solid enough for me. More so with her back up by the rebels cast and crew on her skill. Some people are going to think differently on her, and others might think her not much better than before. Its whatever lol.

Ventress never pushed Maul, you're mistaken it with Savage Opress, and it did a little effect on him.

The circumstantial reasons are important, did Ventress push Savage with the intention of combative purposes ? Similar to what Barriss did to Anakin ? or what Grand Inquisitor was doing to Kanan usually ? Simply no. Because Ventress were trying to escape from Maul and Savage, she did that only because she was trying to buy time for their escape, similar to what Kanan and Ezra did to Vader by using a lucky explosion that happened at their near.

So you need to separate these in two, by the things that happened with the combative purposes, and the others; such as with the intention of buying time or using the lucky circumstantial situations.

Understandable. Im the same way with other wanked characters. It just happens once in my life, its a character I like getting Wank 0_0 Im not use to this.

@erkan12: You're right, Ventress pushed Savage in her escape, not Maul. I guess I should wear my glasses more often :)

I'm somewhat confused as to what you mean regarding the intentions of the force push. If the person being force pushed is prepared for combat, why does it make a difference if you push them to gain an edge or push them to escape? As for Ventress's push having little effect, to me, that's hard to tell, given that the scene then focuses on Maul approaching, though clearly it wasn't like Yoda shoving Palpatine since Savage reaches the door moments later.

@greysentinel365: lol that was vader not in prime and even then dooku wins and maul has a chance but i'm not going to discuss it here. anyways dooku is a much better duelist and the force. So maybe if ashoka survived and she grows better but for now dooku stomp and ashoka can maybe win 1/10 because dooku has an ego the size comparable to trumps

Dooku wins, not really a stomp though. Though Ahsoka managed to stand her ground against Vader (though Vader did dominate the fight), I still think the Count wins. He's Vader-tier and I'm pretty sure he won't be reluctant to use or even spam Force Lightning.

i would not call dooku vader teir, close though. Count's upper limit is anakin, i do agree with count winning, but in a fairly close fight

stated to be vader in prime by filoni

This thread is... funny.

Anakin before he fell to the Dark Side defeated Count Dokuu. Ahsoka fought Vader (cyborg Anakin) to a standstill. Dookuu was very impressive but he lost badly to Jedi Anakin and would probably lose to Vader.

Maybe Vader has more impressive Force feats but when it comes to skill the Count is obviously within Vader's league.

@frankenmidget:he is not in league he is definitely above rebels vader and I believe him to be above prime vader @kbroskywalker:are you kidding me?? Vaders prime is in ROTJ genius and dooku definitely trolls rebels vader

and for once I basically agree with erkan

i agree skill wise they're similar, but vader has better tk and completely outclasses him physically, dooku is in vader's level in 1/3 categories.

creator's opinion holds authority, unless disney says otherwise, vader's prime is rebels, and prime vader is above dooku though its not a stomp

@kbroskywalker: look at the rest of the evidence besides the creators word, Rebels vader loses to cough*Ashoka*Cough. So lets see some of vaders other showings Vader has killed...

old Ben,Jocasta nu, Iwo kulka, Siadem Forte,....

All this was outside rebels, all were jedi, Iwo and siadem were working together, and at one point vader took on 5-6 jedi and killed them all so to say rebels vader is prime is lol since ROtj vader held against luke's enraged attack for a good amount of time whereas rebels vader gets outmaneuvered, injured, and spared by Ashoka lol.

if vaders prime is rebels, than a;; these were outside of his prime. Also he did not lose to ashoka. FInally if you want to start a lowball contest, you're losing with maul. Maul has: lost to a blind kanan, an out of shape kenobi(the old wounds fight is referenced in legends continuity), had trouble with pre visla, was stalemated by a version of grevious that has lost to kit fisto, by filoni's own word was on a losing end to a battle with kenobi in spite of having support from his brother,got beat by a jedi with a bomboo stick(i don't care if he was a famous battle master, he's no vader and this was the equivalent of losing to a dude with no ammo, while you had a full load.), and got his lightsaber cut in half by padawan kenobi.

Dooku handily, but not a stomp.

isn't beating someone handily a stomp?

@kbroskywalker: Isn't a stomp just ragdolling or speedblitzing?

@darthtyrannus: just want to say, half those names are Legends Canon, not Canon. Canon Vader is prime in Rebels. Legends Canon states Vader is prime in RotJ.

Though honestly, Out dated EU canon < recent up to date canon canon.

That said, Dooku always been the better duelist, as is Anakin to the broken and slower Vader. Vader has slightly better force feats, that's it.

vader in his prime is arguably the most skilled duelist in galactic history. He is an advanced version of dooku. Like dooku he maximized the strengths and minimized the weaknesses of his form, unlike dooku, he also used all 7 forms to make himself a superior combatant. Also force wise he is sated to be 80% as powerful as sidious and has much better tk feats such as casually flinging rebel fighters while engaging in space combat, He also physically outclasses dooku being able to lift a tie fighter with his bare hands

vader>dooku is implied by filoni, "lucas wouldn't want vader diminished line"

@kbroskywalker: no one diminish Vader, they establish how powerful Dooku was. There is a difference.

Also Vader is not the better duelist at all IMO. Dooku was the best duelist besides Yoda. He maximize one form, buggy taught General Grievous, Ventress, and others many forms, grievous knew all forms from Dooku.

Also unlike Vader, Dooku fought and spar with the best duelist of the canon, unlike Vader. So in the end, Dooku is the better. Anakin only beat Dooku due to Dooku's age and Anakns superior force amps.

I'm saying Dooku, 10/10. Only one more powerful in the Force than Dooku can defeat him, and Anakin had more raw power than Dooku. He focused his rage, and it amped him. Dooku's skills as a duelist were nearly unmatched during his time. I don't see Ahsoka being any more difficult for Dooku than Obi-Wan. Dooku is an expert at using the Force while dueling, and that's what would do her in.

Those pics of Dooku and Ahsoka are peng as fudge a delightful afternoon walk in the park!

@wollfmyth209 I may haz already downloaded dat Ahsoka pic tho when I saw ur profile pic. Iz quality shizzleimage of the character in question, br0.

Luv dat shizzle.

@kbroskywalker: where are you pulling all this bs from? Most skilled duelist my a$$!! Sidious plagueis or yoda kill rebels vader in 5 seconds lol. What does some more strength really give vader unless you disarm them both? Dooku isn't just gonna buckle because vader can hit harder I mean look at the facts dooku has made obi wan and ventress look like a little kids whereas vader couldn't really break her defenses and just kicked her off a ledge for her to come back and deliver what would have been a death or incapacitating blow if vader did't have some space between his face and his mask.

@darthtyrannus: @sirfizzwhizz: I have no question yoda old take him in a second, but that's through force and speed not through skill. Vader is a more advanced version of dooku. Like dooku he compensated for his weaknesses and amplified strengths. But rather than just do this with one form, Vader in operated this in a hybrid lightsaber form(Vader did this due to his confrontations with dooku). By the Vader saw Rotj Luke to be more powerful than rots anakin and only rosy according to the tea novel cause he was holding back. Also Vader is better force wise. He has survived under a collapsed cathedral for days, has moved rebel fighters while in space combat, is stated to be 80% as powerful as sidious and can force choke people across holographic images

@kbroskywalker: you contrdict yourself as you say yoda can kill vader in 5 secinds but dooku fought him for 20 and btw way dooku is a good deal faster than vader having moved faster than obi wan during there final duel. Vader changed to hybrid after his fight with old ben geneius if ypur gonna wank about vader get your facts straight.don't know why you think he was holding back since he was the agressor most of the time and luke above anakin depends on whether vader is better than dooku and he wasn't so yeah. Where do you get this crap!!! Sidious was able to literally toy with prime maul and savage, kill 2 jedi masters before mace windu could react, and crash a fleet of ships with a force storm! Does vader have showings like that? NO!! I'm beginning to regret ever arguing with such a vader wanker like you

@darthtyrannus: it's called hyperbole. Also condisidering yoda contended with sidious, who moves faster than anakin can perceive, who was a blur of light to dooku, I don't see why he couldn't blitz dooku in a second using your flawed abc logic.

@sirfizzwhizz: as of the tfa novellization Vader would have beat Rotj Luke if he wasn't holding back, per filoni this is post prime Vader. Vader has stated that Rotj Luke>anakin and no source has contradicted this. The lack of top duelists falling by Vader is solely due to their rarity and I no doubt that Vader could match if not exceed all of dooku' showings. The fact that he is stated to be 80% as powerful as sidious backs this up.

@kbroskywalker:

has stated that Rotj Luke>anakin

Where is the source for this? Thats a new one to me.

Vader could match if not exceed all of dooku' showings

In Force he slightly is better than Dooku, not dueling feats.

The fact that he is stated to be 80% as powerful as sidious backs this up.

I can easily argue Dooku is 80% honestly. Yoda was always near equals with Sidious, and Mace even Vaapad his way to a victory. Dooku was stated in multiple sources nearly matching Yoda, which makes sense. Dooku 80%, Yoda 90%, Sidious 100%.

Why not?

@kbroskywalker: Look at the freaking facts! dooku held up against yoda and was above mace windu and vaders best feat was holding his own with enraged luke and before you make excuses about well vader could have beaten luke blah blah blah let me say that dooku only lost to anakin because the fight was dragged on to long and he exterted himself on the other hand anakin got a boost from his rage and that was why he built dooku. Once again both vader and dooku are way below sidious and he could beat either very easily based on showings so stop with that load of bull.Lack of duelists my ass! Vader had trouble with old ben and The empire strikes back luke and ashoka were able to pierce his guard whereas dooku has been able to pierce the guard of obi wan who was arguably the best soresu user ever so if vader got scrubbed by ashoka then dooku would completely destroy vaders defense so stop wanking

@sirfizzwhizz: Rotj novelization, tfa novelization

He has dueled evenly with Rotj Luke and Galen marek(can we count that?) (he was holding back according to voice actors), someone who pre prime beat Shaka it. He also dealt with ben kenobi who in a fight referenced in legends continuity beat darth maul.

It's quite possible yoda was holding back as his matching sidious suggests he could blitz dooku. Sidious moved faster than anakin could perceive and anakin was a blur of light to dooku, yoda needing time to beat dooku isn't consistent with that

Nothing states or hints Yoda was holding back. Meanwhile many things stated or suggested that Yoda was trying.

@leo-343: @sirfizzwhizz: maybe but in rots yoda certainly showcased the speed to blitz anyone not named gm Luke or sidious

That was pre prime Galen, prime Galen would beat shark ti without luck

Really? How so? Can I get Yoda's exact speed, Sidious exact speed, and Dooku's?

Oh wait, there is none. Just some vague hyperbole in novels only. The only accurate speed we have is Dooku constantly dueling Obi wan and Anakin fine for the longest time. Then dueling Yoda who was unable to blitz him. Even Sidious in all his fan wank glory was unable to avoid a kick from Maul in their duel. Fact is the whole speed blitz arguments for most of Star Wars debates are laughable. Is Yoda faster than Dooku? Possibly, but not enough to matter. Was Sidious better than Yoda? Yes, and he could not "Speed Blitz" Yoda.

@sirfizzwhizz: rots: "to anakin it appeared[sidious and mace] they were fading in and out of existence"

"Dooku's vision was filled with blue[from anakin's saber]"

As for yoda v sidious, who was on the winning side is quite debatable. The novelization says sidious as do a couple of source books, however the movie shows sidious on the brink of defeat(he almost fell to the ground while yoda walked forward) before there was too much power for either to control, and in a force vision( also to be taken with a grain of salt) yoda quickly overpowered him force wise and sidious needed to use anakin as a hostage. Yoda has also broke his barrier twice which suggests at a minimum comparable force abilities. The junior novelization suggests they were equals, the script says sidious was lucky so let's call them equals.

wtf areyou talking about kbro? darthtyrannus wins 10/10 and itsnoteven close.

Dooku is just the better all around combatant, in both the Force and lightsaber combat. He wins this in a tough fight.

Dooku. STOP THE AHSOKA WANK.

Dooku was one of the best duelists in galactic history, and in his era only Yoda and Sidious surpassed him as duelists (Anakin and Mace Windu are superior according to a lot of people but that is highly debatable.)

Rebels Vader is definitely below Dooku. ROTJ/ESB Vader is on a whole other level as a lightsaber duelist. Ahsoka was basically evading Vader's strikes throughout the entire fight, because she knew she was OUTMATCHED and that engaging Vader in an outright saber duel would mean DEATH. Not engaging an out of prime Vader doesn't mean you're that great of a saber duelist.

Fighting for a minute with Rebels Maul in an inconclusive fight where she was slightly desperate means nothing. By her own admission, she was outmatched. Any incarnation of Maul except Rebels is superior to Rebels Vader, however ESB/ROTJ Vader>any incarnation of Maul.

So Rebels Ahsoka is overrated, although being beaten by Dooku in a saber duel is what would happen to 80% trained Jedi/Sith including Legends. No humiliation. Ahsoka is good but Dooku is at least one/two tiers above her. Force-wise, Dooku. Ahsoka does use Force Pushes often in her fights (examples begin on Florrum vs Grievous and vs Vader) but they have litttle effect. Grievous didn't dodge but he still withstood the blast. Vader went back a bit but no real thing. TKing Inquisitors is no feat at all. Especially SS+FB. Beating them in fourty seconds is no feat. Also, it was mainly SS fighting. FB only had one blade activated and was basically just stalking Ahsoka and SS.

Dooku has collapsed an entire cave, collapsed part of a hangar, crushed a giant pillar that Yoda took a minute to lift, thrown those things on Geonosis effortlessly, he has ragdolled Kenobi, owned Ventress with TK, and sent dozens of Pykes flying with a Force Wave (only one hand) that nearly made Anakin and Kenobi lose their footing.

Dooku has Force Choked Quinlan Vos, and his Lightning is very powerful, having paralyzed, for one minute, AOTC Anakin, thrown back Sora Bulq, killed Ventress, and Dooku actually managed to catch three Nightsisters off guard (one of them being Ventress) while drugged and blinded. Yeah.

Ahsoka might just have a bit of a bad experience with Dooku's Lightning. Dooku is also good physically, kicking Anakin back. He also can dodge many lightsaber strikes. He dodged Ventress' strikes while hitting Savage with Force Lightning. Ahsoka is just outclassed by Dooku in every way.

The old man has some fun with the Jedi Lady... :)

Unless we see some info on how she or maul compares to pt era characters, there will hae to be a degree of speculation and guessing. Telekentically she's hard to place, but dooku should still be the usperior duelist and he has a good edge in lightning. As skill s the most likely decider of this fight, dooku takes this.

Bump

Ahsoka has challenged dooku's superior on a ds nexus. Rebels Vader in addition to being more powerful by both feats and scaling can also be considered a superior duelist to dooku as well thanks to the scaling he gets from beating a more skilled/powerful version of the kenobi dooku beat.

Anyone who actually thinks this is a mismatch now is simply wrong

Dooku.

Good fights everytime. She'll be a challenge for him, but Dooku holds most if not all advantages.

I might elaborate at some point, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. Amethyst covered the synopsis pretty well.

The Count.

Dooku, but Ahsoka will be a challenge for him, especially considering that the Count doesn't have Vader's strength advantage.

I think there's an argument to be made for Ahsoka now. While dooku may have more feats, that can easily be attributed to Tano's lack of exposure. What we do know is that Ahsoka holds near parity with vader which is evident given her ability to challenge and fight relatively evenly for about 20 seconds+50 seconds off the screen(It takes a minute plus for vader and ahsoka's to leave the temple entrance there so vader wasn't steadily driving ahsoka after the 20 second mark assume back as many mistakenly assume) before being driven back, holding her ground, and then bfr'd due to exhaustion despite off course malachor being a nexus capable of allowing the inquisitors to fly:

"There's an A answer and there's a B answer. The A answer is usually my go to easiest answer which is that you have to ask Dave Filoni. The B answer I would say is a longer mythological discussion and it relates specifically to Malachor, and how it is the home of this Sith Temple."

http://tosche-station.net/tosche-st...d-timothy-zahn/ (31:40)

And Off course, Vader is implied by both by sidious and feloni to be superior to dooku. Even if you take a feats based approach vader ha smore impressive force feats. And dueling wise the scaling he gets off old ben surpasses he scaling dooku gets of rots kenobi.

Dooku's biggest claim to fame is that he is a superior of rots kenobi. However while its not explicitly stated, we can reasonably assume Ahsoka has that same superiority per her contention on a nexus with vader who himself has beat ben Kenobi, a more skilled, per canonical authority, and more powerful, given his deeper connection to the force, version of rots kenobi.

I'd say, based on her closeness with vader, she could be superior to dooku

Source?