Source about Mando Ahsoka>Rebels Ahsoka ? And even so this really change nothing.
She did not "almost stalemated Vader" she was clearly losing against a Vader who was looking arguably for the capture rather than kill at first
Source about the Vader being amped "by a nexus" during their duel ?
Maul stalemated her he did not beat her in Rebels, in TCW he was clearly stronger than her during their duel in S7 and only lost because he was trying to force her to join him instead of killing her, and S7 Maul was not Prime Maul.
Source about Mando Ahsoka>Rebels Ahsoka ? And even so this really change nothing.
She did not "almost stalemated Vader" she was clearly losing against a Vader who was looking arguably for the capture rather than kill at first
Source about the Vader being amped "by a nexus" during their duel ?
Maul stalemated her he did not beat her in Rebels, in TCW he was clearly stronger than her during their duel in S7 and only lost because he was trying to force her to join him instead of killing her, and S7 Maul was not Prime Maul.
The source never adress fighting skills, duelist capacity or force power. The source explain how Ahsoka improved in knowledge and that she is more wise and mature. There is no mention of fighting skills, force mastery or nothing of the sort here. That would be like saying that Old man Kenobi is stronger than ROTS Kenobi because he his more wise and knowledgeable. I don't deny that her becoming stronger is a real possibility but we have no confirmation of that yet, and even so we have literally zero idea on how she compare to her Rebels self and how much stronger she is
I know it is a nexus but there is no proof or evidences that Vader was notably amped by it. Canon describe that Nexus MIGHT affect force-users but it was never established if either Vader or Maul was amped by it, this depends on the circumstances and how much you are affected by it is very very contextual . The fact that Filoni himself never stated or suggested anything of the sort about Vader, make it clear that there is no solid reason to think Vader (or even Maul in a sense) was amped to any significant degree by the nexus.
Again she was clearly losing against Vader when the later was arguably not even trying to kill her but rather capture her. Vader was using his standard tactic , overpowering and outlasting his opponent. I don't disagree that Ahsoka performance was impressive, but this is clearly not enough to make her stand on the same spot as Dooku, let alone beat him.
How she clearly beat Maul in their fight during Rebels ?
The source never adress fighting skills, duelist capacity or force power. The source explain how Ahsoka improved in knowledge and that she is more wise and mature. There is no mention of fighting skills, force mastery or nothing of the sort here. That would be like saying that Old man Kenobi is stronger than ROTS Kenobi because he his more wise and knowledgeable. I don't deny that her becoming stronger is a real possibility but we have no confirmation of that yet, and even so we have literally zero idea on how she compare to her Rebels self and how much stronger she is
I know it is a nexus but there is proof or evidences that Vader was notably amped by it. Canon describe that Nexus MIGHT affect force-users but it was never established if either Vader or Maul was amped by it, this depends on the circumstances and how much you are affected by it is very very contextual . The fact that Filoni himself never stated or suggested anything of the sort about Vader, make it clear that there is no solid reason to think Vader (or even Maul in a sense) was amped to any significant degree by the nexus.
Again she was clearly losing against Vader when the later was arguably not even trying to kill her but rather capture her. Vader was using his standard tactic , overpowering and outlasting his opponent. I don't disagree that Ahsoka performance was impressive, but this is clearly not enough to make her stand on the same spot as Dooku, let alone beat him.
How she clearly beat Maul in their fight during Rebels ?
The brief skirmish between Maul and Ahsoka was not even a proper battle it was like Kannan v Maul.
Even disregarding Malachor as a nexus I’d say rebels Vader is just a bit above Rebels Ahsoka.
In NewHope I honestly think Old Ben would’ve been stronger than ROtS but humans weaken after a certain age. Ahsoka a togruta reaches her mental and physical prime in Mando so it’s safe to say Mando Ahsoka > Rebels
So Mando Ahsoka>=Rebels Vader ( considering not nexus equal. considering nexus above) and Rebels Vader> Dooku
Dooku wins. He is better almost every way. To be honest I'm not really convinced that scaling from a fight with Vader she very soundly lost is enough to put her on the tier of Dooku or the likes of Anakin and Yoda.
Can't agree with you there. Kanan vs Maul was not even a proper fight in a sense as you say, while Maul vs Ahsoka was clearly a standard duel for Star Wars canon. Duels on average are between one minute and three minute. Ahsoka and Maul fit in that, and neither seems to have the clear advantage.
Malachor is clearly a Nexus I don't disagree with that. I disagree with the fact that we should assume that the Nexus amped Vader to any relevant degree when it is clear by the canon that "Nexus amp" are very contextual and not consistent.
Well ROTS Obi-Wan was clearly stronger, not only as you say he was in his physical prime but he was also a extremely active Jedi General and actively fighting across the galaxy. While Old Man Kenobi was not only old but he was unactive for a considerable moment and therefore rusty (as far as we know)
When was it stated that Ahsoka reached her physical prime in Mando ? By the point of Rebels she was already a full grown and experienced force-user in terms of physical capacity and conditioning.
You really think that Ahsoka is stronger than Vader lol ? Did you read the comics ?
ROTS Obi is confirmed superior to ANH Ben by 2 canon sources. See spoiler block:
Old Ben also gets tired from climbing a hill in the comics.
The novel From A Certain Point of View also makes clear that Ben had no chance of beating Vader.
This is what ANH Ben says at the time of his death in Disney canon
"Your powers are weak, old man." Our lightsabers clash. I try to push forward, only to be thrust violently back. It's like striking iron. There's no give in Vader's arms, and far too much in mine.
"You should not have come back," Vader tells me.
My resources are depleted, my body screaming with pain. I have no hope of winning this fight.
--I'm forced back, muscle burning, breath ragged. The grip of my lightsaber is slick in my hands, my ears ringing. -
Can't agree with you there. Kanan vs Maul was not even a proper fight in a sense as you say, while Maul vs Ahsoka was clearly a standard duel for Star Wars canon. Duels on average are between one minute and three minute. Ahsoka and Maul fit in that, and neither seems to have the clear advantage.
Malachor is clearly a Nexus I don't disagree with that. I disagree with the fact that we should assume that the Nexus amped Vader to any relevant degree when it is clear by the canon that "Nexus amp" are very contextual and not consistent.
Well ROTS Obi-Wan was clearly stronger, not only as you say he was in his phiscal prime but he was also a extremely active Jedi General and actively fighting across the galaxy. While Old Man Kenobi was not only old but he was unactive for a considerable moment and therefore rusty (as far as we know)
When was it stated that Ahsoka reached her physical prime in Mando ? By the point of Rebels she was already a full grown and experienced force-user in terms of physical capacity and conditioning.
You really think that Ahsoka is stronger than Vader lol ? Did you read the comics ?
Ahsoka is said to be a master in Mando while in Rebels she’s almost a knight. Always Jedi masters are in their prime (Windu, Yoda, Obi) and before the Anakin point, Vader>ROTS Anakin thus Master Anakin (Vader) > Knight (ROTS).
And the user above point reiterates what i said about Obi (He was mentally stronger physically weaker)
I think OT Vader> Ahsoka (Mando)> Rebels Vader.>Dooku
@mo_ali: Again, there is literally zero source or quote suggesting that she is a better fighter. Yes she is "superior" mental wise , but this doesn't automatically equate to being stronger as a whole, and even if it is the case, we can't know how much Ahsoka improved between Mando and Rebels.
Ahsoka wins but barely. Both are nearly equal in sabers, but Dooku has a slight edge in the force.
I give the fight to Ahsoka because I believe contending with Vader on a nexus is more impressive than losing to Anakin (a weaker opponent) in less time.
Also lol at Dooku “stomping” that’s canonically false.
Dooku does not win with low difficulty in my opinion. Ahsoka's feat in nearly stalemating Vader and ragdolling two inquisitors is enough to say that Dooku will not win without a good fight.
Dooku does not win with low difficulty in my opinion. Ahsoka's feat in nearly stalemating Vader and ragdolling two inquisitors is enough to say that Dooku will not win without a good fight.
@frozen: It is true that Ahsoka would have lost if Ezra didn't interfere, but holding her own against Vader for a few minutes is considered a near stalemate in my mind.
Dooku does not win with low difficulty in my opinion. Ahsoka's feat in nearly stalemating Vader and ragdolling two inquisitors is enough to say that Dooku will not win without a good fight.
Dooku does not win with low difficulty in my opinion. Ahsoka's feat in nearly stalemating Vader and ragdolling two inquisitors is enough to say that Dooku will not win without a good fight.
"Nearly stalemating"
She decisively lost...
No she didn’t she decisively force checked Vader twice and died because she had to escape the blast
@frozen: Vader clearly dominated her beyond the opening strikes, where Ahsoka had the advantage due to her form being best suited for fighting bigger opponents per Filoni himself. Once he recovered, she was forced to dodge and retreat whilst blocking. He drove her out of the entrance, along the side, and then off in 32 seconds.
He didn't stomp, but he clearly had the upper hand beyond the first 5 or so strikes
@breakofdawn: sure it says “may”, but to me the intent is clear, and the word “may” doesn’t just mean possibly it also means are allowed to or are granted access to. Maul literally contended with and stalemated a near Vader level opponent while “rusty” on Malachor. Maul in TCW isn’t even on Anakin’s level, let one what was intended to be “prime Vader” so he was obviously amped. No rusty character in Star Wars canon can contend with or defeat Vader other than Sidious tier characters.
@breakofdawn: sure it says “may”, but to me the intent is clear, and the word “may” doesn’t just mean possibly it also means are allowed to or are granted access to. Maul literally contended with and stalemated a near Vader level opponent while “rusty” on Malachor. Maul in TCW isn’t even on Anakin’s level, let one what was intended to be “prime Vader” so he was obviously amped. No rusty character in Star Wars canon can contend with or defeat Vader other than Sidious tier characters.
Maul was noted to be "in the Vader realm" by Filoni. As for intent, that isn't from the episode, so it's intent can't be applied to the planet that had been a dead world for hundreds if not thousands of years.
@banditarla: First, I clearly distinguished between the opening strikes where he's caught off guard by her style and the main part of the fight, hence why I highlighted the point at which she lands after leaping at him and they continue their duel. Second, of the part I highlighted, 40 seconds of that is an interaction between Ezra and Kanan, which I chose to omit as it occurs concurrently. I've already explained my reasoning for excluding the first exchange:
Vader clearly dominated her beyond the opening strikes, where Ahsoka had the advantage due to her form being best suited for fighting bigger opponents per Filoni himself. Once he recovered, she was forced to dodge and retreat whilst blocking. He drove her out of the entrance, along the side, and then off in 32 seconds.
@breakofdawn: in the Vader “realm” is unquantifiable as a feat.
Retcons exist in Star Wars as well as every other form of media, so now everything in the episode is recontextualized.
Maul in TCW isn’t even on Anakin’s level, let one what was intended to be “prime Vader” so he was obviously amped.
^ You said this. Being in the general range of Vader disputes this. As for the idea of it being retconned, this is headcanon, unfortunately. Malachor had been a dead world for centuries. There's no indication given even within the episode that the Dark Side can still provide a passive amp to its users.
@banditarla: What? How would he be caught off guard...he taught her that style and they were having a long staring contest before that with sabers activated. This is way too much headcanon to try and discredit her performance. Their fight was literally as fair as it could get.
Where did I say the fight wasn't fair? My point was that Ahsoka was able to exploit her lessons on fighting bigger foes to gain a brief edge over Vader, dancing around his strikes and then sending him skidding back with a Force Push. Once he recovered, he continued to dominate her.
but...why?
This was the part of your comment I was referring to:
The underlined is objectively wrong. You're basing this off the Youtube clip which doesn't take into account the off-screen portion which for some reason you chose to "omit".
What is happening in the conversation is happening adjacent to the fight, and begins before they've even left the doorway through which Ahsoka came. Yes, I did get the timeframe slightly wrong, which was my mistake. It's around 40 seconds, not 32.
Yes, she lost decisively, but her performance is more impressive than you're making it out to be - part of that was her weave and bob fighting style being suited for Vader's but Dooku's best feats, besting Obi-Wan is partially due to stylistic advantage as well. It shouldn't discredit feats altogether.
1) Where did I claim it wasn't an impressive showing?
2) Dooku has never had a "stylistic advantage" over Obi-Wan.
3) My point with the first exchange was to highlight how Ahsoka is able to briefly gain the upper hand. That is all.
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