Ahsoka Rebels vs Kao Cen Darach

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Round 1 - Duel

Round 2 - Force

Round 3 - All out

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Ashoka, without a doubt.

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Contending with a pre-prime Vader and a post-prime Maul is more impressive than contending with a pre-prime Malgus. The Force round may be quite close, but Ahsoka should win quite handily in rounds one and three.

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Round 1- Ahsoka

Round 2- I think Ahsoka, this round is close though

Round 3- Ahsoka

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contending with a pre-prime Malgus.

It's not merely contending, tbh . If anything, Darach would've likely beaten Return Malgus had Vindican not been there to aid the latter.

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@dawn_of_ages: Maybe. Darach was definitely more focused on Vindican at the start of the 2v1, but that could have just been a miscalculation on Darach's part, assuming that the master would be the more threatening than the apprentice.

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@discipulus: that feat of his holding his own against Malgus and Vindican isn’t nearly as impressive as it looks. Vindican is a featless and random sith inquisitor, while Malgus was vastly before his prime.

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#9 Wolfrazer  Online

Darach.

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Darach was pretty impressive, but Ahsoka held her own for a time against Rebels Vader and was suggested to be able of fighting as a near equal with Rebels Maul. Considering Vader and Maul's variety of feats, Ahsoka wins.

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Ahsoka can take wins from Maul, and did well against Vader. She gets my vote.

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Maybe. Darach was definitely more focused on Vindican at the start of the 2v1, but that could have just been a miscalculation on Darach's part, assuming that the master would be the more threatening than the apprentice.

Eh, true. But I'm inclined to believe that he was right.

This particular part of the fight is also quite telling (credit to Wolfmyth for the gifs):

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Vindican manages to hold his ground against Darach's wave, whereas Malgus is sent flying and hurled back a significant distance ( the gif is from the BTS of the SWTOR cinematic).

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They are faced with the same attack yet Vindican fares far better.

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#13  Edited By Lord_Tenebrous

Round 1 = Kao wins every time. He has simply massive scaling from his position as Battlemaster, not to mention his being listed as a notable Jedi alongside the likes of Ven Zallow and Revan. He dominated the duo of Vindican + Malgus in a duel clearly intended to be a thematic parallel to Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Maul, granted Malgus was significantly pre-prime, but he was almost a non-factor. Vindican was the real top tier, being confirmed to be one of the most powerful Sith of his era by virtue of his Inquisitor status. Moreover, the guy was so formidable, he was stated to be a notable Sith alongside the likes of titans like Darth Baras, Darth Jadus, and blasted Naga Sadow himself. Kao sweeps.

Round 2 = Kao could probably take this as well. Ahsoka really has no superior showings. She failed to succesfully TK Vader, and her Palpatine feat was pulled off in a time warp Force convergence like Mortis that won't be indicative of her normal capacity. Meanwhile Kao has issued a Force Repulse that staggered Malgus + Vindican, absorbed lightning from the latter (capable of ripping through the defensive shields of an XS-class freighter and scorching the aforementioned ship) into his blade and launched it with great precision, ragdolled a Sith Lord as powerful as Vindican, and while exhausted hurl a massive engine larger than anything Ahsoka has ever moved with the Force by herself.

Round 3 = Kao is just better in every way. He wins.

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Unless you assume some absurd speed disparity from Canon to Legends, Ahsoka destroys him.

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@lord_tenebrous Nice very detailed. I'm inclined to agree based simply on the fact that Kao has more showings.

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@breakofdawn Her duel against Vader was impressive I agree, except if you think about it this is the Vader who has recently recovered from grave injuries and presumably has had little time to adapt to his new suit. Also I might add that Maul TCW >>> Maul rebels. I mean the guy seemed to be a shadow of his former self.

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@azureamaterasu: Even before Rebels Vader was pretty damn powerful (right to left):

And Ahsoka held her own against him for a time. As for Maul, while he is weaker he's not hugely so.

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#18  Edited By Greysentinel365

Ashoka in a mismatch.

Durach is trash. Honestly Padawan Ashoka could win this. She has better feats and scaling

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@azureamaterasu:

Thank you. Ahsoka is good, but Kao's scaling and feats are superior.

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@breakofdawn I'm not trying to be pedantic but wasn't the Vader Ahsoka faced fresh into his suit whereas the Vader in that a comic was perhaps from later on. But yeah I can't deny he would still be incredibly powerful, to be honest I'm not sure why she wasn't rag-dolled from the outset perhaps that's some kind of plot induced flaw.

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@azureamaterasu: Nah, Rebels is set 4 years before A New Hope. The Ahsoka vs Vader fight is actually alluded to in the final Vader comic. I’d say Vader didn’t ragdoll her either because he couldn’t (he could only dominate) or because he was conflicted. He didn’t want to kill her, after all.

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@breakofdawn I stand corrected. I'll just say that I think Ahsoka whilst having increased her powers significantly still has feats which are kind of flaky to say the least. One thing is for sure though, she would probably give Kao a solid fight; I think anyone would agree with that.

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@lord_tenebrous:

He has simply massive scaling from his position as Battlemaster, not to mention his being listed as a notable Jedi alongside the likes of Ven Zallow and Revan

Wrong. He doesn't get any scaling because you can't scale any character to him. All you can do is play off of his Battlemaster status, which Cin Drallig also had and he still wouldn't be able to beat Rebels Ahsoka based on actual feats.

He dominated the duo of Vindican + Malgus in a duel clearly intended to be a thematic parallel to Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Maul, granted Malgus was significantly pre-prime, but he was almost a non-factor.

He never "dominated" the fight. He only won by being able to separate both Malgus and Vindican and because of the second lightsaber. When he was fighting Vindican by himself with his own blade, he couldn't get the upper hand. Only after getting the second blade and BFRing Malgus for a time was he able to outperform Vindican. With his single blade, he wouldn't fare any better against Maul or Vader.

And what does "clearly intended to be a thematic parallel to Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Maul" supposed to mean? Is that supposed to elevate Darach somehow?

Vindican was the real top tier, being confirmed to be one of the most powerful Sith of his era by virtue of his Inquisitor status

Vindican being one of the most powerful Sith in a weak era doesn't help him here. Unless you can actually show characters he is stronger than, it's a moot point and nothing more than a Jedi being a Master instead of a Knight. Beating Vindican doesn't automatically put him above Ahsoka because Vindican is so much <<<<<<<< Maul and Vader.

Moreover, the guy was so formidable, he was stated to be a notable Sith alongside the likes of titans like Darth Baras, Darth Jadus, and blasted Naga Sadow himself.

No, he was stated to be a notable Inquisitor among those characters. It has nothing to do with him being as or nearly as powerful as those characters, just that he was a formidable Sith who held that certain position.

Ahsoka really has no superior showings

Her even managing to get through Vader's TK shields is better than anything Darach has done.

She failed to succesfully TK Vader,

How is this failing to successfully TK him?

No Caption Provided

.

Meanwhile Kao has issued a Force Repulse that staggered Malgus + Vindican

Ahsoka managed to stagger a vastly more powerful Sith in Vader. Staggering Vindican and a pre-prime Malgus does nothing to prove Darach > Ashoka in the Force.

absorbed lightning from the latter (capable of ripping through the defensive shields of an XS-class freighter and scorching the aforementioned ship) into his blade and launched it with great precision

This has nothing to do with Darach's Force abilities.

ragdolled a Sith Lord as powerful as Vindican

Vindican has no feats to say this is even remotely impressive. Why you would cite this and ignore all of Ahsoka's feats is beyond laughable.

and while exhausted hurl a massive engine larger than anything Ahsoka has ever moved with the Force by herself.

Kanan is a Jedi capable of moving asteroids and stopping a cave-in and Ahsoka is stronger than him. She would have no trouble replicating his feat, tired or not. And again, the fact that she could even get through Vader's Force defenses are still a better feat than hurling junk.

Kao is just better in every way. He wins.

Nope. He's not as skilled or as powerful. Ashoka wins with ease.

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@azureamaterasu: Nah, Rebels is set 4 years before A New Hope. The Ahsoka vs Vader fight is actually alluded to in the final Vader comic. I’d say Vader didn’t ragdoll her either because he couldn’t (he could only dominate) or because he was conflicted. He didn’t want to kill her, after all.

Why wouldn't Vader want to kill Ahsoka? He was pushing her back the entire fight, Force pushed her off a cliff, and even told her she would die if she chose to stay with him instead of leaving with Ezra and Kanan.

I know there's a quote out there somewhere that says Vader was intent on killing her, but can't find it and too lazy to keep looking.

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@thevivas:

Why wouldn't Vader want to kill Ahsoka? He was pushing her back the entire fight, Force pushed her off a cliff, and even told her she would die if she chose to stay with him instead of leaving with Ezra and Kanan.

He clearly wanted to spare her, hence the "we need not be adversaries. The Emperor will be merciful if you tell me where the remaining Jedi are" spiel. The telling her she'd die bit came after he stopped being conflicted.

I know there's a quote out there somewhere that says Vader was intent on killing her, but can't find it and too lazy to keep looking.

I wasn't aware of this quote. I'll look for it, thanks.

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@breakofdawn:

He clearly wanted to spare her, hence the "we need not be adversaries. The Emperor will be merciful if you tell me where the remaining Jedi are" spiel. The telling her she'd die bit came after he stopped being conflicted

That's not merciful. That's Vader planning to use her so that he could find other Jedi and kill them with her knowledge instead of relying on the Stormtroopers or the Imperial Intelligence.

I wasn't aware of this quote. I'll look for it, thanks.

No problem. It said something along the lines of how Ahsoka is one of the only people in the galaxy who know Vader to be Anakin Skywalker, so he wanted to make sure to kill her.

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@thevivas: That's not merciful. That's Vader planning to use her so that he could find other Jedi and kill them with her knowledge instead of relying on the Stormtroopers or the Imperial Intelligence.

True, but he did want to spare her due to some lingering attachments.

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#28  Edited By Greysentinel365

Okay I'm going to make this TCW Ahsoka so it's just not hilariously sad.

Sabers

Even early in her career Ahsoka has contended with Ventress fairly. Who scales above blademasters who have perfected saber combat such as Sora Bulq.

No Caption Provided

And later held her own with Luminara as well.

Ahsoka has also fought Grievous, Pre Vizla and Magnaguards. Vizla was able to give Maul a good fight and was noted in Shadow Conspiracy to have the best reflexes possible for a human. While Magnaguards learning abilities mean every single one is at a different level and it was early in the war meaning these were base model. They still by nature of their design and basic training would be high level fighters.

All this is better than anything Kao has to his name.

Force

Darachs force abilities are over hyped. And Ahsoka has him beat in every category.

Let's go feat by feat.

Durach blasts Vindican mid-air while coming off the attack of someone else

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Ahsoka blasts Ventress while attacking someone else.

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Differecne? Vindican is a practically featless Inquisitor while Ventress can TK one-shot post Dreadnought moving Skywalker

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Hell this is the same Skywalker who just half an hour before this could shove around AT-TE's with the force of bombs

"Sir..."

"Run. I'll hold them. Anyone alive inside?"

Dumb question, but I need to know. "Negative, sir."

"Get going. Count of three." Anakin bobbed up from behind the walker and was greeted by a hail of blasterfire. "Three!" he yelled, swinging at the bolts.

The men sprinted for the door, plunging into the acrid black smoke that now filled the courtyard. It was some kind of cover for a few seconds. Anakin saw the droids, hampered by their own debris, and his eyes went to the blazing carcass of the AT-TE.

Just do it. Adrenaline fueled him. He sent the wreckage skidding across the ground with a massive Force push. The kinetic force of the impact and the sheet of flame released when it slammed into the droid ranks had the effect of a bomb going off. Then another explosion-the walker's magazine, probably-sent a fireball soaring into the air.

The Clone Wars Novelization

Point one to Tano.

Next Kao sends a small piece of metal flying. One barely his width and maybe twice his height

No Caption Provided

Here's Ahsoka sending a similar size object flying during her first mission out of the temple

Note the object is nearly as tall as Skywalker. And due to it's spherical shape in comparison to the flat metal Kao threw would have around the same mass

Point to Ahsoka again

Then Kao sends a platform at Malgus

No Caption Provided

This platform is barely Malgus' height and only twice as long (if that) as he is tall.

In comparison we have Ahsoka unleashing a force wave capable of levelling group of droids. This included B2's and Droidkas who would match Malgus in size. In terms of mass this outmatches Kao's feat above

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Finally we have Darach throwing a small engine. About the size of Malgus by height and width

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Compared to Ahsoka (again on her first mission) bringing down a huge stone wall

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Yeah Ahsoka trumps or matches Kao in a TK bout easily and has shown if anything to be more powerful. Add in all her other advantages and she wins.

All-Out

Well let's see, we have Ahsoka contending with Grievous, Ventress and Vizsla. Each with accolades placing them as being able to challenge or just being period some of the best swordsman in history.

And we have Darach stalemating with Vindican (who as an inquisitor, wouldn't even be that focused on saber combat) and losing to Malgus.

Then we have Ahsoka's better if anything force abilities and it's a sealed deal.

Tano wins...... in her TCW incarnation.

Rebels Ahsoka? Mismatch. Someone lock this thread.

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@thevivas said:

@breakofdawn:

I wasn't aware of this quote. I'll look for it, thanks.

No problem. It said something along the lines of how Ahsoka is one of the only people in the galaxy who know Vader to be Anakin Skywalker, so he wanted to make sure to kill her.

?

It was our belief that we could have this moment, but it’s not even a moment of hesitation for Vader. Because he says then, “You will die,” and he means it. He is going to destroy her, and the reason that is, is that she has knowledge of him as a good person. She represents and is a vessel for everything that he once was, and he finds such pain in that, and hatred, and anger. He doesn’t want to face what he’s become, but he just wants to destroy anything that reminds him of that former self. He doesn’t even talk about Anakin in the movies, at first, and if he is that person. “That name no longer means anything to me.” So we have to establish that Darth Vader and the destroyed character of Anakin. The moment you see it reach out in hope is when he says her name finally, and you hear the voice of Anakin. That’s the only thing, is beyond this horrible person is this trapped person inside that calls to her.

...

I think what we’ve created is an interesting point in Star Wars history and time, and time will tell if we ever actually get to see that. I do believe that Vader – and why he’s fighting her at the end, which was important – is that he wants to destroy her. So she’s really kind of stuck. And perhaps even in that moment herself thinks, “Well maybe this is the end for me.” We’ll have to wait and see.

Star Wars Rebels: Dave Filoni on Ahsoka's Fate, Maul's Return and Much More

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@emperordmb: I agree that Ahsoka wins but not a stomp. When has Ahsoka faced a battlemaster that could hold off two sith at the same time and successfully kill one of them? Furthermore Ahsoka was matched and driven back by a Maul who was way past his prime, and struggled against Inquisitors. She isn't good enough to suggest she can "stomp" Kao

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@thevivas: Well he was focusing in aquiring the holocron from Kanan and Ezra, rather than Ahsoka

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@emperordmb: Also if you think Ahsoka Tano contending with Vader is impressive. Then here me out....

Rebels Vader was force pushed by Kanan and Ezra, and failed to aquire a holocron from them. Also even Ezra held out long against him in the season 2 finale. With it being a kids show, Vader is nerfed as hell

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@deadlyeyes:

Rebels Vader was force pushed by Kanan and Ezra,

While toying with them, and AFAIK passive Force barriers don't exist in canon.

and failed to aquire a holocron from them.

He was casually yanking them back despite the two combining everything they had to stop him. He might as well have been toying with them again.

Also even Ezra held out long against him in the season 2 finale.

Vader wanted information from him. The moment he deemed it unimportant, he sliced Ezra's lightsaber in half and was ready to deliver a killing blow.

With it being a kids show, Vader is nerfed as hell

I don't see how he's nerfed. They've gone to great lengths to show that even when holding back he's still extremely powerful and, as far as the Ghost Crew are concerned, invincible. Hell, they dropped an AT-AT on him and he shrugged it off like nothing.

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@breakofdawn: I dont think Vader ragdolls anyone in canon to my knowledge

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@deadlyeyes: He hasn't, but if Maul can and even Ahsoka can he definitely can as well.

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AHSOKA

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@breakofdawn: True , but it seems like in canon he doesn't like to play that game as evident by other material. So I'd say its still left for interpretation whether he can or cannot ragdoll Ahsoka