Ahriman VS Eldrad

I back Ahriman personally but I can easily see an argument for Eldrad.

Direct confrontation heavily favors Ahriman.

A long game of prep on a galactic scale heavily favors Eldrad.

@fullmetalemprah: Yeah I sincerely hope there is so please adverise this thread as much as you can. My respects to Ahriman, but I doubt Eldrad would lose a fight to anyone considering his encounter with Abaddon the Despoiler. I really believe Ahriman is the most powerful Warhammer 40K character apart from Eldrad, the Primarchs and of course the Emperor. And anything you post about Ahriman winning would be of no value if not for someone giving an appropriate response in support for Eldrad. But I'm supposed to be neutral so here's the forum which started it all:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/thanos-vs-warhammer-40k-2030005/

@banecapital: Nah, Ahriman's strong but there are plenty of things stronger than him, a Lord of Change for example would still mess him up when it comes to sorcery(even the generic ones are some of the best sorcerers in the setting), and stuff like the C'tan are obvious examples as well. And honestly I'd favor Ahriman in a direct fight with Abaddon too. Abaddon is a skilled warrior but honestly he's not so far above Ahriman physically that he could blitz him before he got his spells off. Ahriman has taken on greater daemons before after all, a Keeper of Secrets I think it was. The same applies to Eldrad too really.

@fullmetalemprah: C'Tan are godsa and thus incomparably superior than even the Emperor himself and his Primarchs when at full power just like the Avatar of Khaine. A Lord of Change is one of the most powerful servants of Tzeentch but there are millions of them, just like there are Bloodthirsters of Khorne, so I don't think Ahriman, who I believe he's Tzeentch's favorite even if he might not have surpassed the Emperor's blessings on his son Magnus who's still the Primarch leading Ahriman's Thousand Sons Legion, would ever have an issue to crush a Lord of Change, a Bloodthirster or even a Warlord Titan like Lysander and his small squads of Terminators are doing with their vortex grenades, but Eldrad's another story, and even if I admit he may not have as many feats as Ahriman's, whose power might indeed be more specific and consistent, his resurrection may indicate that Eldrad's getting a serious buff as the story's progressing, which could be based on his mysterious relationship with the Emperor during the Dark Age of Technology which is neglected because of Orks being more popular despite Games Workshop's efforts to undermine the comic relief faction by making it weak at the tabletop despite the much advertised Orktober which should give plastic Squiggoths like there are incoming plastic Sisters of Battle rather than hot wheels that are quite harder to assemble, while Eldar are always overpowered with their Wraithknights which should be separate from the rest of their armies like their Imperial Knight counterparts.

@fullmetalemprah: Indeed, tbh, Ahriman should utterly wreck Abaddon. Abaddon is rather..... eh... Guy fought an old, out of prime Sigismund and had to be carried off the field an inch from death and admitted that if it had been Sigismund in his prime, Sigismund would have won. Abaddon had a hard time fighting a near-death, could barely stand Kharn...

Abaddon is more a leader then anything.

I like Eldrad more as a character, but would have to give this to Ahriman until I see some commiserate high-end feats. Give some prep time and I'd back Eldrad.

@wut: Well I think that Abaddon has gotten seriously buffed since fighting that old Sigismund that founded the Black Templars, whose current leader Helbrecht is beating Imotekh whose power is not much inferior to the C'Tan who are indeed way above anyone. Helbrecht, Ahriman, Abaddon and Ragnar Blackmane are the most powerful Space Marines excluding their Primarchs, but wait! I think I've just found another great thread!

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/abaddon-and-ahriman-vs-ragnar-blackmane-and-helbre-2033154/

@banecapital: There is no evidence to support Abaddon got stronger, much less 'seriously buffed', since his fight with Sigismund as that was post-abaddon becoming the Warmaster of Chaos. Sigismund is not Helbrecht. Stop comparing them. Just because they are were both leaders of the Black Templars does not make them the same. Sigismund was the greatest space marine duelist during the HH and is one of the greatest to have ever lived. Helbrecht is not Sigismund and never will be.

Imotekh is not remotely close to a C'tan. The C'tan in modern 40k are just shards, shattered pieces of the C'tan, and are not representative of the original being the C'tan used to be and, even then, C'tan Shards vary wildly in power depending on what C'tan they came from and how large the shard is. The C'tan Shard of Nyadra'zatha from Shield of Baal wouldn't notice Imotekh in a fight because that is how little a chance Imotekh would have.

........ No. Helbrecht and Ragnar are not. The greatest space marine warrior is Kharn. The strongest space marine psyker is Ahriman. Ragnar and, especially, Helbrecht are not more impressive then any other particularly skilled Loyalist Marines such as Cato or Dante. The strongest loyalist marine, overall, is without a doubt Mephiston.

@wut: Yeah, I mean he was in the Mournival and all, but from what I remember his feats there didn't really outshine his brother's, if anything Loken had better showings than Abaddon. Nowadays Abaddon basically has Drach'nyen and, well, that's kind of it. Kind of hard to lose when you have a reality warping daemon sword in your hand that also just so happens to be the echo of the first murder. Oh, and his Primarch's personal lightning claw, that helps too.

He has determination I'll give him that at least, most people would give up after failing to take a planet for ten millennia.

@wut: We've also disagreed in you know which thread about this, but Kharn is strong when leading an army to serve as a meat shield against Thanos while distracting the Mad Titan from impeccable hit-and-run tactics of the Dark Eldar, but since you agree with me that Ahriman is powerful, Ragnar's feat of tossing the Spear of Russ to prevent Magnus himself from launching a large invasion instantly puts him above Mephiston, just like Helbrecht's feat of taking Imotekh, who's not just a powerful Necron Lord but actually the most powerful by a long shot, even if I agree that Mephiston is the best loyalist psyker, since psykers are indeed heavily influenced by the warp and that's why an elf and an occultist are the best among them. But I think you agree that Cato only looks dominant because of Matt Ward's bad writing which is subject to retcon while Dante is over a thousand years old. I think that Helbrecht would easily surpass him at his peak at a much shorter time if we get a glimpse of his 42nd Millenium adventures since the storyline has not advanced equally for everyone since the time it was locked for too many years. And I totally agree with you on C'tan and I think that Chaos Gods and all their servants are working the same, although their power has expanded on a much greater scale across the entire galaxy.

@fullmetalemprah: Abaddon's crazy but the Imperium's had been more crazy to rely so much on their defences in a single planet while allowing the Tau Empire to expand so much. The same is true with Terra. It's more important than anything but merely defending it in such a huge galaxy with so many enemies coming from every direction is not the best strategy to protect humanity. The Imperium should invest on mobility like Command and Conquer bases.

@fullmetalemprah: Indeed, carrying a sword that has a daemon so powerful even the Emperor was afraid of it does tend to help one's abilities. His biggest edge over the rest of the Mournival is that... he had terminator armor and the other three didn't.

@banecapital:Chaos Kharn isn't a leader. He is a rampaging berserker. Those who follow him just follow him. They don't expect much from him. ......... It doesn't take much skill to throw a spear into a portal. That is all Ragnar did. He did not fight Magnus. He did not face Magnus. He threw a spear... into a portal. Way to take something so far out of context you left reality behind. Mephiston kills Ragnar in a fight quite easily.

@wut: Ragnar's the only Space Wolf who could ever pick the Spear of Russ. It's like Excalibur from King Arthur's legend. And since we've talked about this before, Space Wolves have some particular personality traits which lead them to violate the Codex Astartes without being closely tied with the Ecclesiarchy like the Black Templars but Ragnar seems too different from his fellow brothers for me to believe that he isn't gonna be a major player in upcoming storylines. I think that many Space Wolves will be consumed by the curse of the Wulfen which would turn them into World Eaters that are literally War Hounds rather than figuratively like the former Space Marine Legion and Ragnar would save his chapter unlike any other character, including the Blood and Dark Angels who could never be redeemed despite currently having the best leaders in their long and proud history.

@banecapital: What? Ragnar will cure the Wulfin Curse! Oh god!... So that means he will be a cheap imitation of Mephiston, you know, the only Blood Angel to beat the Red Thirst.

... No one else could pick it up... you.. really know next to nothing about the Space Wolves... Bjorn, Garm and Egil have all held and used the Spear of Russ.

@wut: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/ahriman-and-eldrad-vs-hulk-and-dr-strange-2032927/