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#301 Posted by lubub55 (11670 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman:

Sam has utilized disguises just as effectively as 47.

I don't think he has. The only time I ever remember him using a disguise was to infiltrate Sadid's camp, where he wore a mask to cover his face amidst a load of mercenaries who didn't really know each other too well. 47 can disguise himself without masks for jobs where there is only one person in a building doing that role who most people there know, and can disguise as select people without being spotted.

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#302 Edited by Ready_4_Madness (10879 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: https://youtu.be/Egg42aVlLz0

https://youtu.be/c0HyP-txy7M

I highly doubt he uses disguises as good as Agent 47, regardless Agent 47 can kill his target many ways just by improvising.

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#303 Posted by ZBeast (439 posts) - - Show Bio

@ready_4_madness: Took my time to reply, not that much into the vine. Anyway, you can't just asspull trailers as if they were canon part of the plot. And no, 47 takes on easier and more accessible targets why more support and assistance. Sam can even clear most of his missions without weapons, unlike 47 who heavily relies on them. He is a chameleon, Sam is a fucking ghost. Sucks how some people here call themselves debaters when all they do is choose their favorite "for reasons" (not you tho). Gosh this is kinda boring.

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#304 Posted by lubub55 (11670 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, 47 is just too superhuman to lose fights like this.

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#305 Posted by lubub55 (11670 posts) - - Show Bio

Surprisingly, the new HITMAN game actually gives 47 some great new feats. He can completely ignore being shot with bullets like it didn't happen.

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#306 Edited by AllStarSuperman (41482 posts) - - Show Bio

@lubub55 said:

Surprisingly, the new HITMAN game actually gives 47 some great new feats. He can completely ignore being shot with bullets like it didn't happen.

Hardy Harr Harr

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#307 Posted by lubub55 (11670 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: I'm dead serious. If you get shot in game, security guards will say, "He must be on some kind of drug. He didn't even feel that. I'm sure I hit him!" Or something along those lines.

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#308 Posted by AllStarSuperman (41482 posts) - - Show Bio

I highly doubt he uses disguises as good as Agent 47

@lubub55 said:

I don't think he has. The only time I ever remember him using a disguise was to infiltrate Sadid's camp, where he wore a mask to cover his face amidst a load of mercenaries who didn't really know each other too well. 47 can disguise himself without masks for jobs where there is only one person in a building doing that role who most people there know, and can disguise as select people without being spotted.

No. Fisher has done exactly the same. In the first game he infiltrated the CIA just by walking through the front door and right through security. In Blacklist he used a random military uniform to purposely get held hostage by Sadiq - but to do it without letting him know he was Sam Fisher. In the big ending of Double Agent - the entire city of New York is flooded with police - SWAT - National Guard - and Third Echelon Splinter Cells - all of them looking for a rogue Sam Fisher. Yet Sam is able to take out a SWAT guy and take his suit and despite being hunted by literally everybody he's still able to sneak aboard the remaining members of the JBA's boat and stop the last nuclear bomb from going off.

Now there's the fact that the WHOLE game of Double Agent was Sam Fisher using an undercover disguise..........

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#309 Posted by AllStarSuperman (41482 posts) - - Show Bio

@lubub55 said:

@allstarsuperman: I'm dead serious. If you get shot in game, security guards will say, "He must be on some kind of drug. He didn't even feel that. I'm sure I hit him!" Or something along those lines.

Tell that to the random police chief from Hitman Contracts......

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#310 Posted by lubub55 (11670 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman:I don't think Sam posing as members of large groups really compares to 47 being able to not just do that, but to pose as specific people and fool even people close to them without masks and whilst holding conversations. He can pose as members of the Secret Service and can even go on-stage and on a catwalk dressed as a world-famous fashion model who everyone recognises without being spotted. They aren't even close in this regard, I don't think.

@lubub55 said:

@allstarsuperman: I'm dead serious. If you get shot in game, security guards will say, "He must be on some kind of drug. He didn't even feel that. I'm sure I hit him!" Or something along those lines.

Tell that to the random police chief from Hitman Contracts......

Let's not act as if there's no context to the scene.

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#311 Posted by lubub55 (11670 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#312 Posted by Rac95 (1962 posts) - - Show Bio

I think 47 can blend in better than Sam Fisher,he is superior in the use of disguises, whilst Sam is superior with using his terrain. Fisher is also more specialized on infiltration and has IMO the better equipment. I think Sam would take it

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#313 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (10879 posts) - - Show Bio

Still 47

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#314 Posted by lubub55 (11670 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone want to debate this?

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#315 Edited by AllStarSuperman (41482 posts) - - Show Bio

Sam

Always

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#316 Edited by OriginalCaptain (2221 posts) - - Show Bio

Could go either way.

This is one of the closest match-ups ever imo.

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#317 Posted by lubub55 (11670 posts) - - Show Bio

47.

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#318 Posted by BlindOverlord (5 posts) - - Show Bio

So I made an account just to answer to everyone shilling that Sam is faster. So here we go, taken straight from the Hitman wiki. Agent 47 abilities:

  • Physical Enhancements: As a class one type clone, Agent 47 was genetically enhanced in order to perform physical tasks much more efficiently than an average peak-human. To keep his skills in balance, Agent 47 practices his combat, shooting, assassination, and stealth skills whenever he is not on an assignment. He has over his life become a myth in the underworld due to his skills. Many doubt in 47's existence because of his skills in completing impossible assignments to the point that the FBI and CIA denies his existence. He has killed professional assassins sent by the Franchise, killed the likes of the genetically superior people, Mark Parchezzi III and Sanchez. He managed to kill a group of Mr 48 clones despite them being created to be better than 47. He also defeated the Saints and the Praetorians, the former an elite squad of killers & the latter members of an elite and professional PMC. When training to join the agency Eric Soders claims his stats are off the charts, and considered Agent 47 a threat to the agency itself. In Hitman: Absolution, his skills were so excellent that an agency soldier and Benjamin Travis said that he was "the scalpel".
    • Heightened Speed: Agent 47 is apparently able to run 10km (6.2 miles) in 36 minutes and 39 seconds. His reflexes are also similarly superior. He was able to react to Mark Parchezzi III trying to shoot him, by immediately dodging the bullet.
    • Heightened Strength: He is physically strong even when compared to adult males of his size and build in peak condition; being able to climb pipes, move, drag and dispose of bodies, snap necks, knock opponents unconscious, and jump from balcony to balcony with minimum effort. Displays of his peak-physical strength have been seen many times, as he is even able to strangle a physically powerful being, such as Tzun. He was even able to toe-to-toe with Sanchez, a man who is physically superhuman due to Warren Ashford's experiments and even kill him with his bare hands.
    • Heightened Metabolism: He has an inhuman and effective metabolism, which has a limited, but sufficient healing factor. His healing is efficient enough to help him recover from a gunshot in a few hours despite him needing some medical attention in order to have the bullet removed and the pain suppressed with some painkillers. He was even tough enough to walk for a long time with critical injuries before passing out.
    • Heightened Senses: Agent 47's instincts are so profound that he can effectively visualize everyone around him (and also people of interest such as targets and guards) through walls and floors.
    • Heightened Endurance: 47 has survived things that would kill normal humans. he survived a fatal gun wound and was able to walk before passing out. When he was thrown by Sanchez through a wooden door with his superhuman strength, all it did was knock him out for a few minutes. He had even survived being electrocuted by the voltage that would kill a normal person.
  • Stealth Intuition/Impersonation: Agent 47 has mastered the art of stealth, being able to terminate multiple enemies in the same area one at a time and sneak up on almost anybody and quietly neutralize them. 47 also has an expert level understanding of the use of disguises in order to access unauthorized areas of a location.
  • Driving Intuition: It is evident that Agent 47 is a very skilled driver, judging from how well he managed to maneuver Dr. Ort-Meyer's car past a police blockade (in rainy conditions) at the end of Asylum Aftermath. Agent 47's driving skill is also manifested in his ability to drive specialist motor vehicles - such as a bus and a large truck at the end of Amendment XXV and The Meat King's Party, respectively. Agent 47's vehicular skills are not just limited to cars - He is seen flying helicopters and planes and driving boats numerous times throughout the series.
  • Martial Artist: Trained extensively and thoroughly in armed and unarmed combat and in the use of improvised weapons, such as explosives, sniper rifles, automatic weapons and bladed weapons, Agent 47 is fully adept at surveying his environment and using it to his advantage. Highlighted in Hitman: Enemy Within and Hitman: Absolution, 47 is an expert in hand-to-hand combat. From a young age, Agent 47 was trained with his fellow clones to master kickboxing. Agent 47 was an above average fighter, losing only to clone number 6. In Hitman: Blood Money, he can disarm trained and armed soldiers with ease, as well as render people unconscious with minimal effort. In Hitman: Absolution, he is skilled enough to engage several armed enemies unarmed and survives. He also shows his skill in martial arts and his inhuman physical strength when he is able to beat a genetically altered giant Sanchez in a one on one fight.
  • Marksmanship/Weaponry Usage: The newspaper in Hitman: Blood Money describes him as "a perfect marksman on par with Legendary Agent 47," which likely means his skills are so profound that every bullet he has fired so far has met its intended target.
  • Resourcefulness: He is also resourceful enough to maintain anonymity by avoiding leaving forensic evidence for law enforcement agencies to discover through various methods. Agent 47 is skilled in infiltration, as seen in the trailer for Hitman: Absolution when he must enter Diana Burnwood's mansion to kill her, ex-filtration, and evasion, as well as the traditional art of assassination as seen when carrying out contracts. On-site, he can slip past guards without arousing too much suspicion. Agent 47 also has a detailed understanding of human anatomy and human nature, shown through his use of poisons, and sedatives, as well as striking vital points when strangling targets silently or using hand to hand combat. He also knows how best to move throughout an area without catching the attention of civilians or armed guards. He knows exactly what parts of the human body to shoot that would be a survivable shot, a fatal shot or even a slow painful shot which 47 has used to interrogate one of his victims. He is also able to face multiple enemies unarmed and survives the encounter unharmed.
  • Indomitable Willpower: Whatever the odds, Agent 47 never panics. He always keeps his composure and clear mind to the point of being perfectly aware of all his surroundings and constantly calculates his every action, never once losing focus.
  • Engineering: In addition to his driving intuition, 47 is also a very skilled mechanic and engineer. He is able to manipulate objects and machinery around him to his advantage with very little effort. Additionally, he is an expert locksmith, being able to pick most locked doors and open them in mere seconds.
  • Chemistry: 47 has shown to be knowledgeable & skilled in chemistry/poison. He has been able to concoct poisons that can either kill them in seconds or simply incapacitate them.
  • Drumming: 47 is shown to be a great drummer, evident when he skilfully plays the drums to impersonate another drummer.
  • Multilingual: Thanks to his travels around the globe, 47 is familiar with multiple languages. He is shown to speak/comprehends English, Russian and likely many more.

By the time Sam Fisher was a child learning at school, 47 was already killing and getting away with it. He is the most effective killer anywhere. Sam is toast, the only worthy opponent for him would be Solid Snake.

Just in case you people didn't read, he dodged a bullet and he can shoot two different people at the same time with pinpoint accuracy without aiming down. He can kill you by throwing a screwdriver to your head from 10 meters away at a dead eye accuracy if he doesn't have weapons available. And just a reminder, Fisher only knows Krav Maga, which can be easily countered by someone more skillfull, like Sadiq. Hitman has never met his match in hand to hand combat.

So yeah, by the end of this scenario you would only hear Diana saying

"Good work, 47"

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#319 Posted by AllStarSuperman (41482 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow a wiki entry. I’m not swayed. Fisher still dominates

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#320 Posted by lubub55 (11670 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: Why do you think so? I think this is worth a debate and honestly I could defend either side, so what are the reasons you think Sam wins?

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#321 Posted by BlindOverlord (5 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow a wiki entry. I’m not swayed. Fisher still dominates

Do you consider yourself to have enough knowledge to make that call? What's your rebuttal? Can Sam dodge a fucking bullet? I've been a fan of Tom Clancy's my entire life so I read Splinter Cell, and I was extremly hyped to read Hitman's novel. Having read both I can see you triying to make a point seeing how Sam is well... Sam, but Hitman is just too much, far from fucking human. His IQ is off the fucking charts and he depends on no one to get info. Sam without Lambert or Grimm is not the same. Sam needs to aim in his sights to execute a target when Hitman just uses his Silverballers as extensions of his fucking hands. Fisher does not dominates, there is no way he could dominate. As I stated before, Solid Snake is more of a proper match for Hitman, he sure as hell can dodge bullets.

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#322 Posted by AllStarSuperman (41482 posts) - - Show Bio

@blindoverlord: The F word is literally the only word that will get you banned around here, so just heads up.

And yeah I’m very knowledgeable on both characters, but even more so Fisher. Yeah he can dodge bullets. He’s taken out far greater numbers. Fought more elite opponents. Shown superior physical stats by actual feats despite 47s implied stats. Has better stealth. And Sam his shown to be far smarter tactically. On top of all this his top of the line gear gives him a solid edge over Hitman.

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#323 Posted by Rac95 (1962 posts) - - Show Bio

@blindoverlord: Well, Sam has done a lot of the things mentioned in 47's entry. He routinely climbs around on pipes and similar things, can kill 4 enemies in 4 seconds whilst hanging upside down, knocks out armored soldiers on a regular basis, also loves climbing around on railings and actually jumps them upwards, pulls people easily out of windows with one hand and entered a room and disarmed the person who had the gun pointed at the door, before he could kill him. And those are just game feats.

As for the second part, Solid Snake would dominate him, except in the category of imitating people. Snake is very proficient in the use of cardboard boxes though

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#324 Posted by BlindOverlord (5 posts) - - Show Bio

@rac95: The first person you can kill in Absolution is someone you can easily grab from a window. Sam really offers nothing overpowering, he's just a very atlethic human. Hitman is in olympic condition for pretty much anything. I answer the 4 seconds thing below, but playing Absolution for a while should make you understand that Hitman is far faster at aiming than Fisher, and I repeat: He doesn't aim down his Silverballers and can shoot two different people at the same time which for any human, Fisher included, is absolutely impossible.

@allstarsuperman: I don't really remember anywhere saying he was fast enough to dodge bullets, can you give me a source? How can you be sure he took far greater numbers? You can finish all the hitman's games having killed every single person on the mapso... maybe is subjective? Has he shown superior physical stats? Truthly? Where? As I said before, Hitman can throw a screwdriver from ten meters away and get it in your head with pinpoint accuracy. Want proof? Play Hitman, Absolution/HiTMAN tm. Does Sam posses superior senses? 47 can perceive people through walls by their scent, sound and movement. Don't believe me? Play Absolution, the tutorial mission explains his cognitive power. 4 enemies in 4 seconds? Hitman can take more than 4 in less. CIting again, the tutorial mission when you learn about your Dead Eye, which also slows his perception of time btw. Said he's better in hand to hand? Sam Fisher is only adept in Krav Maga, a Israeli born martial art, that's why he uses a karambit. But Sadiq pretty much out manouvered him in H2H. Agent 47 excels in any martial art, but he is particularlly fond of kick boxing, having killed other clone in a fight because he could not control his raw strenght. Don't believe me? Read the novel "Hitman: Enemy Within", I would cite it for you, but honestly I'm kinda busy. Fought more elite opponents? Really? Has Sam defeated a 7' 6" and 440 lbs giat injected a serum that enchances strengh? Because Hitman did, see Sanchez. Top of the line gear? Do you know what the ICA is? Have you seen their HQ? Their armory? The only advantage Sam could possibly have is the sonar googles, but they said Third Echelon so they are not available at all, so really, gear is off the table. No intel from the MSI means he relies on either Lambert or Grimm. Far smarter tactically? Than Hitman? Where? Can you give me proof? And please tell me a very smart desicion from Sam ALONE because 90% of his tactical desicions rely on either Grimm or Lambert as I said before.

In this scenario Sam is toast, no other way to see it. Hitman cares not for the live of civilians or innocents, and is way more effective in terms of speed, because of his innate ability of blending in and disguising. Hitman would probably poison the target and by the time he is drinking and Fisher realizing his objectiveis diying, Hitman would be far off the scene. No boundaries? More effectiveness. Afterall the fifth freedom only works on enemies not civilians.

So yeah, please provide basis for your statements.

Thanks for telling me about swearing, I really don't know the rules. Danke

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#325 Posted by lubub55 (11670 posts) - - Show Bio

47. I don't think Sam has what it takes to stop him assassinating his target, and if it comes to a fight he should take the majority. Though Sam's gear could net him some wins in a firefight, I think 47's improvisational ability makes up for it somewhat.

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#326 Posted by BlindOverlord (5 posts) - - Show Bio