Agent 47 VS Sam Fisher

Giving this to Sam Fisher. He's been displayed faster than 47 has. Add his speed, superior stealth and trifocal goggles and we clearly have Sam as the predator in this scenario.

@acano: Damn. Sounds like. BAMF to me.

@azorahai: Haha you should see how calm he is all the time too, just reinforces that.

Sam Fisher wins this tough battle.

That is up for debate. Agent 47 is as fast as Fisher, if not faster. His instinct ability in Absolution is just a gameplay mechanic to show just how fast 47 is. He is described as a 'Superhuman' assassin even though Fisher's feats are borderline Superhuman.

This battle goes to whoever gets the jump on the other first.

@darkazrael999: I don't think instinct really showed how fast he was, correct me if I'm wrong (been a while since I played Absolution) but doesn't Instinct just show enemies paths, who's a civilian, enemy, target, and allow him to blend in?

Yeah. But it also allowed him to do this.

Skip to 1:12

Ah alright I see, Forgot about that part. Thanks for the link.

No probs.

Instinct only allows you to mark and execute enemies, find objects of interest and predict the path of his target. Nothing suggests it makes him faster. Time slows so the player has time to mark the targets. This is why I said Sam is faster based on how they displayed him. He's agile and can maneuver through obstacles easy. The environment is easily in Sam's favour. Add to that Sam's variety of Sonar goggles including colour imaging, footprint tracking etc, Sam's stealth suit that minimizes noise, Sam's tri-rotor and other stealth equipment. It's clear in Absolution that 47 wasn't made to fight openly.

Not really. I could make the same argument for 47. They are mostly equal in speed/strength. The difference in in their methods.

Sam Fisher has been displayed faster. Key word: Displayed. Not once have we seen 47 traverse through obstacles like Sam Fisher has. This is set in Sam's home ground too, in Conviction he has infiltrated the place, knowing where every gap, window, vent, security etc is.

@monsterstomp:

'Instinct' is nothing but a gameplay mechanic to try and portray 47's skill and experience as an assassin. The people playing the game are not assassins (hopefully) and with 'Absolution', the franchise got loads of new fans and newcomers to the series. And since they don't really have any experience with the series, the devs added the 'instinct' feature. Also because almost every similar game has some sort of vision power a.k.a Detective Vision, Eagle vision.

Anyway back to the topic at hand, 'Instinct' is meant to display 47's skill to the player. How 47 is aware of his surroundings, how he knows where everyone in his vicinity is, which items in his environment will be suitable for murder etc. And the mark n' execute feature is meant to display his inhuman skill and precision in using firearms, just like Sam's 'Mark n Execute' . Watch the video I posted closely, he took down more than 10 police guards simultaneously while they had him surrounded and were firing upon him, took down countless other guards/cops by gunning them down in a straight-up firefight. And it IS possible to go all Scarface on Hitman. I have. 'Bloodmoney', which is arguably one of the best assassin games ever made and the best Hitman game, has far bigger levels than 'Absolution' which allows for more creativity and has much more guards and is also harder because there was no cover system. And I've once played the game the way I'd play any Max Payne game just to see if I could...on the harder difficulty. And I did. On 'Absolution', it's even easier and again I've also done a second playthrough of Absolution...Max Payne-style. :)

You say that 47 is not meant to be in a straight-up firefight since it is not a 'run n' gun' type of game. By that logic, even Sam Fisher can't be in a straight firefight. In the older games like 'Chaos Theory' and 'Double Agent', it is almost impossible to 'run n' gun' on the harder difficulties. Even on Blacklist, it is almost impossible to run n' gun on 'Perfectionist' and Sam's health goes down really fast in a straight firefight.

Sam is a beast, no doubt about that. But so is 47. And in this fight, the one who gets the jump on the other first will emerge victorious.

@darkazrael999: You said that, twice. Instinct adds nothing to 47's speed, and 47 pops out from behind cover to mark and execute. This leaves him wide open. Sam's mark n execute allows him to keep tabs on whoever he had marked. Showing his special awareness to a high degree. Sam can also see through walls with his sonar vision. Once Sam tags 47, he can move anywhere he wants to around Third Ech HQ and still know where 47 is. Sam is leagues more stealthy than 47 imo.

@monsterstomp: Dude, that 'Mark' thing is a gameplay mechanic. It doesn't even exist on 'Perfectionist' which is the most realistic way to play Splinter Cell. It didn't even exist in earlier games. Sam won't have that in this fight.

'Instinct' shows how fast 47 is. During 'Tag n Shoot', after you tag enemies;; 47 takes em down before they do. One guy killing a group of armed enemies while they surround him and are firing at him is not a feat of speed? If it were a normal guy, would he be able to?

47 is stronger and faster than normal humans. He has been killing since adolescence. He took down ninjas, superhuman soldiers/assassins, infiltrated armed and fortified bases and much, much more. The cut-scenes prove that he is Superhuman.

This fight is in no way a stomp. Both combatants have different M.Os. No one has one clear advantage over the other which makes it interesting.

@darkazrael999: I know the Mark thing is a GPM. But why are you bring up facts about the Mark n Execute thing in Absolution when you just discounted everything about it in the Splinter Cell series from Conviction onward? Instinct might as well be non existent when you play Absolution on Perfectionist difficulty so what's the point here?

Sam has been in military school since he was young and was the first to be selected into the Splinter Cell program. He's peak human or low level superhuman and can overpower nearly every guy he comes into contact with. His strength/stamina/endurance allows him to go rock climbing without a safety harness. Sam is arguably much more stealthier than 47. Which cutscenes prove that 47 is superhuman? Out of curiosity, I haven't played Absolution in a while.

Sam definitely has the advantage in environment. Sam knows where the security system is, he can hack it, turn on the laser grids etc and just wait for 47 to slip up. I can't recall 47 coming into contact with lasers.

@monsterstomp: @darkazrael999: its a tie

This would be awesome to watch. Sam wins though, because of his far superior tech/gadgets.

Nice fight, @nickzambuto.

In my opinion, this is the most likely scenario: due to Sam knowing that there is a man to kill the CEO, and his task of killing 47, he would be more prepared in terms of intel. 47 only knows that someone might kill him at some point, but not when or where. This allows Sam to surprise 47. One of 47's main skills, the ability to use disguises, would be nullified by the fact that Sam knows what he looks like (I assume). Sam would likely reach the conference room first, and then lay in wait. 47 would walk in, ready to kill the target/prep an accident/prep a trap, and Sam would burst out from the ceiling panels/vent chute and kill him. Sam would win in the scenario that is the OP.

However, Sam has the advantage in this fight. In my opinion, this is how their stats compare:

Intellect - Sam

Strategy/thinking-on-their-feet - 47

Hand-to-hand - Sam

Gunplay - 47 (point-shooting trumps mark and execute, IMO)

Physical stats - 47

@pr0metheus: That is perfect.

@iheartzombies92: How does point shooting trump mark an execute?

47 is barly able to kill 2/4 guys before the last 2 get shots off in the tutorial

while Sam even when they see him and you mark them instantly can shoot up to four people before they can even react.

I agree on everything else you said though.

@pr0metheus: Yeah, problem is, whether point shooting is better or not really depends on the person playing the game. It's just, if you have a full power meter (dunno what it's called), then you can kill around 10 people in a single go. So I guess it's open to opinions, but sure, I understand your argument.

I have not played Hitman so forgive me if I'm wrong on this, but from the clips shown in this thread it seems like Sam is a lot faster in mark an execute than 47 is in point shooting. Like prometheus said, the regular guards and soldiers can react to 47 and return fire, but Sam is capable of pretty much clearing out entire rooms in an instant. You mentioned something about a power meter, but if said meter is full, do the guards return fire like they did in that clip?

@iheartzombies92: Yeah thats true about being able to hit more people but i there clunked together they start firing at you before you get a fraction through them. I never liked that about Hitman where they knew where you were when you shot. There both just gameplay mechanics but if its basing them off there speed i guess we can say : 47 has the accuracy to kill more people in one go while Sam has the speed and accuracy to do less a lot more effectively. In Absolution it felt more in line with a Splinter Cell game as the disguise system sucked and you used cover to sneak around a lot.Splinter cell double agent when you werent in missions had that Hitman feel as you were using a disguise to infiltrate the terrorist agency. So i'd say there pretty damn even in everything,they both know how to utilize Stealth and Disguises.

One thing though is Sam (If there both fully backed by there agencys),Sam has access to a lot better tech and even some borderline futuristic stuff. While 47 just relies on his ability to make everything look like an accident.

If neither are backed by there Agency (Conviction and Absolution) Sam has an ever bigger tech advantage end game then 47 as he had all those different grenades ,mines and cameras. While i know 47 gets his Silverballers back later through the game,he didnt even have those for 40% of the game.

I will admit 47 has the physical advantage slightly its not that big of a difference. Its like Batman/Captain America type scenario. Has it showed what martial arts 47 knows? Sam uses Krav Maga exclusively and IIRC in one thing there was a Krav Maga master he let get beaten by to infiltrate something and later on demolished her later in a fight.

The power meter just lets you stay in "instinct" mode for longer. You will be able to mark more people then Sam can but wont be able to shoot them all before they return fire.

Sam Fisher takes 47 in this battle. Stealth isn't 47's forté per say, he specializes in disguised infiltration rather than full on stealth. Fisher has received intense training from being a former Navy SEAL, and on top of that he has received Third Echelon's training in stealth, hand-to-hand combat, and brutal efficiency. Fisher never reveals his presence to his targets unlike 47, this will be Fisher's main advantage. For all those saying that 47 is above peak human or something or some sort of metahuman, there's NOTHING to suggest that. That information was introduced as only fluff background for 47 back in the first game: Hitman: Codename 47. I've played most of the Hitman games, and 47 has only displayed skills of blending into surroundings and having and possessing great patience. Fisher on the other hand, has displayed greater feats when it comes to physical stats, Fisher is faster, displayed more strength feats, and is better in stealth. Fisher has displayed impressive acrobatic maneuvers that put him above 47. Fisher is able to hang on a ceiling pipe with his legs, drop his torso down, and grab unaware enemies below with his arms, whilst having to balance the weight of his entire body on the ceiling pipe while simultaneously being able to grab the entire weight of the enemy up. If anything, Fisher has displayed better physical feats than 47. In terms of combat skills, Fisher has displayed a greater amount of hand-to-hand combat (he was able to go toe-to-toe with fully armed Third Echelon squads and disarm them, then beat them to a bloody pulp), and is completely better than 47 in the stealth category. In terms of skills in firearms, I believe they're about equal, it could go either way if they're just in casual clothes face-to-face with each other. In general, I think Fisher kills 47, but if Fisher has the equipment in the picture of the OP, he STOMPS 47.

@pr0metheus:

Dude, you are talking mostly about Absolution. In every other Hitman game, you can mix and match your equipment. You can completely deck out like John Rambo can carry an arsenal of Assault Rifles, SMGs, mines, claymores, c4s etc. Absolution puts him in a different scenario and it wasn't as good as Bloodmoney imo.

Born on September 5, 1964 in Ort-Meyer's asylum, a base of Operations for 'The Agency', Agent 47 was regarded as a cloning success by the people who created him. 47 was always a quiet child and he displayed little to no social interaction. The only time he ever did so was to a mouse, a pet mouse that he adopted. And that mouse was soon killed by a fellow clone as a prank.

After seeing kickboxing tournaments held by Ort-Meyer for his friends and colleagues, he kills the clone in a toilet stall by choking him to death and leaves his face submerged in the toilet. For escaping the asylum, he makes a fiber wire out of a windowsill and broken parts of a broom, oiles squeaky door hinges to sneak out, and stashed a bow and arrow to kill a guard dog before he jumps the gate. 47 has been killing since a very young age.

He was trained since childhood to be an effective, silent, deadly killing machine. He has been instructed by the best in the world, in the use of military hardware, weapons, cqc, marksmanship etc. He was infamous in the asylum for his superior marksmanship. He along with the others were trained in virtually every conceivable fighting disciple, mostly stuff like Krav Maga and Muay Thai. And 47 was 'developed' to be stronger and faster than normal humans.

Sam never displayed any hand-to-hand feats in all of the older Splinter Cell games. Not saying he's not good, I'm saying that the only reason he has displayed beastly hand-to-hand feats since Conviction because Ubisoft has much better gameplay, especially hand-to-hand combat gameplay than IO Interactive. IO Interactive isn't good with developing Parkour mechanics or Hand-to-Hand combat mechanics for their games.

@darkazrael999: I've played every Hitman game except the first one.

You can mix and match your equipment in Blood Money (I wished the random guns you found could of been customized) but with everything unlocked its not even as good as Sam's arsenal in Conviction. I have yet to play Blacklist so i dont know what Sam does in that to have some crazy feats. (Dont spoil it if you have played it)

In Bloodmoney your equipment was what?

A Bulletproof vest

2 mines

Adrealine/Painkillers/Poison/Seditive

Fiberwire

Silverballers ( or any other pistol you used but canon wise he only used Silverballers )

Mp5k (or any other submachine gun you wanted)

M4/Shotgun/Sniper (Canon wise he always used a Sniper if need be but i'm sure he takes more then one weapon with him)

In Conviction,Sam got (without agency support) :

Five-Seven (Canonwise he only uses this)

Not sure about the Secondary he uses in canon but he has access to more then 47 does.

Grenades

Emp Grenades

Flashbangs

Portable Emp Devices

Sticky Cameras

Remote Mines

His Goggles

Bulletproof vest

Sam stomps the fight techwise,47 is IMO a lot better thinker on his feet while Sam plans ahead. 47 is a better improviser then Sam also. Sam never showed fighting skill in the past Splinter Cell games but 47 never really did either.

...So? If Sam has the feats and 47 doesn't, than that is that.?

@pr0metheus: Exactly what I was trying to say. Ubisoft got so much better with their game-mechanics especially after Assassin's Creed. IO Interactive got stuck in the past and never developed Hitman beyond Graphics. I would have wanted 47 to move like Sam but sadly, I don't get to see it. Through in-game cutscenes, info etc and the novels, we get an of 47's superior hand-to-hand skills. And then there is that wrestling level in Absolution.

This is how it goes down

@darkazrael999: Oh my bad,I dont know why but i kept thinking Ubisoft made Hitman and IO made Splinter Cell after reading your thing. The fighting in absolution was kinda dull and repetitive and actually a waste of time and useless.

In Conviction (atleast i did and i loved this move) you can shoot one guy and rush the other to melee him. (Sometimes you can even melee one guy and hurry up and melee the second guy before he can react)

Trying to fight more then one person at once in melee was horrible in absolution. (It would of been amazing if they made it so if two people were close enough it would engage both of them in a melee battle)

In Absoulution it was a waste of time because it took to long to knock someone out and since it made more noise then actually using like a wrench or fibrewiring them it was a waste of time and useless to do it. Also i never liked quick time events so it got repetitive IMO.

That wrestling match did display skill but IMO it was more of a feat of Strength and Manuverability.

Even after all that,Absolution has the best Visuals/gameplay when not in a costume. Had they given the costume mechanics of Blood Money and the weapon options of Hitman 2 (I still dont know why it didnt do that it would of been perfect for absolution) it would of been the best Hitman game so far but yeah i'll agree either Bloodmoney or Contracts is the best one :)

Also i heard a rumour a while back that the next Hitman is already inproduction,I really hope it goes back to him being a Hitman then some stupid personal story of Absolution. 47 is suppoused to be a coldblooded killer,not some guy that destroys the agency.

Also in absolution, Why did 47 kill Diana just to give up being a Hitman about 6 seconds later?

Holy crap sorry for the wall of text.

Yes, I agree that in an actual combat scenario Sam would have a distinct advantage and would win, almost definitely (like I said), but in terms of pure stats, 47 is better in certain aspects. Sam would win with tech, planning, strategy etc. but if he and 47 just met in an alley and started to have a gunfight, 47 would possibly win.

@iheartzombies92: I think Sam is faster on the draw while 47 is more accurate. If they both were holding there signature weapons (Dual Silverballers and Five-Seven) and they just randomly engaged in a gun fight,If Sam doesnt get a solid hit in before they both reach cover 47 wins (Although thats if neither are using any equipment)

47 has Sam outclassed with his guns.

47 would have double the fire power of having two silverballers while Sam only has one.

47's Ballers are also a lot more powerful then a Five-Seven.

57's shoot low grade non armour puncturing ammo.

While the Ballers shoot .45 Acp's which will pack a very big punch if he tags Sam.

Exactly. If allowed to use tactics, planning, mission control, tech etc. Sam stomps but in a random encounter 47 wins.

@darkazrael999:

Sam never displayed any hand-to-hand feats in all of the older Splinter Cell games. Not saying he's not good, I'm saying that the only reason he has displayed beastly hand-to-hand feats since Conviction because Ubisoft has much better gameplay, especially hand-to-hand combat gameplay than IO Interactive. IO Interactive isn't good with developing Parkour mechanics or Hand-to-Hand combat mechanics for their games.

So what are you saying here exactly? He doesn't have hand to hand skill because Ubisoft has gotten better at making sequences? That really isn't a reliable argument.

@monsterstomp: No. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that Sam never displayed any hand-to-hand feats until Ubisoft introduced them in Conviction. Before that, we knew Sam was a highly trained Spec Ops guy with his Navy Seal history but we just didn't see him display. But it doesn't mean that they haven't existed before.

Just like that, you cannot say that 47 doesn't have hand-to-hand skills. Just because he never displayed them, doesn't mean he has none. And for the record, he has displayed CQC in Absolution along with parkour in the earlier games.

@darkazrael999: Sam Fisher was pretty badass in Conviction lol. It's where his abilities really shone. I mean the real canonicity that shows is the interrogation scenes and the final level in Conviction where he takes out a room full of highly trained operatives before they could give off a shot. This was in the White House, just to jog your memory. Ooh and the parkour scene.

@monsterstomp: That's my point. Sam had those abilities before. Before Conviction. But he never displayed them. Why? Because game elements weren't so developed back then. We knew he was a highly trained Spec Ops operative. Similarly, we know 47 is Superhuman. He is made to be stronger, faster than normal humans with more endurance. He doesn't have quite as many showings as Sam but the doesn't mean he is not. He has a few showings of strength and skill. That 'Saints' trailer, that fight with Sanchez, the first Absolution trailer.

@darkazrael999: Were those trailers canon?

@monsterstomp: General consensus agrees that they are.

@darkazrael999: But in game 47 didn't take out all the Saints like he did in the trailer?

@monsterstomp: Yeah. The trailer shows off what he can do, his speed, skill etc. Like the first trailer, you can totally infiltrate Diana's house like that. And you can also take out the Saint's like that. Just have them attack you and press the button prompts.

@darkazrael999: Still not convinced 47 has a chance though :/

@monsterstomp: Dude, let me put it to ya straight. 47 is a highly trained assassin. He has taken on Superhuman Cloned assassins, Warlords and their entire armies, Cartels, the Mafioso and all kinds of crazy mofos all over the world. He infiltrates entire army bases and kills the target and comes out unscathed. In the older games, you can pull off some crazy parkor moves. Absolution was a major step down for the series.

Sam is awesome. I love the character just like I love 47 and I will be rooting for both of them. As someone who has played every game in both of these franchises (besides the first two Splinter Cells), trust me...this fight is as equal as you can get.

We are both gamers. And I respect your opinion even though I don't agree with it. That's the beauty of this site. Have intelligent debates and still be civil. :)

Agent 47.

@darkazrael999: Absolution is one of my all time favourites. Don't get me wrong there. I wasn't a fan of 47 before Absolution. I hate these sort of debates too, its hard to keep gameplay mechanics out of it. So I just base what I know from what I see in the games.

Conviction certainly showed off Sam's capabilities. In Conviction alone, Sam has shown that he has what it takes to survive a fire fight, he has shown very quick parkour skills, very efficient interrogation skills. In the entire SC franchise Sam has infiltrated way more secure places in my opinion. I definitely think Sam has the edge in stealth. Sam has evaded other special ops agents and has encountered other Splinter Cells. I doubt this will turn out to be a hand to hand fight. If it was, I'd probably give it to 47. Sam has footprint tracking, high frequency, colour imaging etc sonars. Sam can see through walls. He has shocker gadgets, smoke pallets, tear gas pallets, a drone, flash bang grenades, etc According to the OP both characters are fully equipped. How many times has 47 encountered flash bangs, tear gas, proximity shockers etc? Add to that Sam's knowledge on the building itself.

A flash bang is really all it takes to temporarily incapacitate 47 for Sam to make his move.

@monsterstomp: How would you decide which is more secure? The bad guys Sam has faced through-out his career are no different from 47s. 47 is no slouch in stealth. That guy can blend in anything. They have different stealth techniques, that's for sure. But he can be as stealthy as Sam, if not even more. I can play Bloodmoney without having to kill anyone besides the target. I can wear a guard disguise and they won't even know. I can clear some levels without guns.

47 can infiltrate a base, wear a disguise, poison the target and get away without getting caught once. And someone who was trained in every conceivable military gadget and equipment won't be prepared for friggin' flashbangs? Come on dude, you're better than that.