Adult naruto vs. duo

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MyGod000

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@mygod000 said:
@mattyboi said:

Naruto blitzes and one shots twice.

like he did against Jigen? wait...my bad that didn't happen.

On topic Madara pretty much low to mid diff here

seriously?... this is just 1 rinnegan madara. he's losing to adult naruto, who has grown much stronger since then. he was already pretty relative to him in power as a teen. that's why i slapped juubito in there

Teen Version of Naruto Sasuke that fought Madara are stronger than the adult versions.

They lost an entire Karma Seal that had Hagoromo's chakra in it... we literally See Adult Naruto and Adult Sasuke getting casual by Jigen who is a weaker knock off of Madara with God tree.

Jigen was Possessed by Isshiki who is weaker than Kaguya.

While Madara had absorbed Kaguya.

Jigen being a monk, while Madara was a legendary Shinobi.

Jigen having a baby Juubi, while Madara had a full grown Juubi.

Madara alone is enough to win here.

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SPsamurai

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Naruto never uses his Truth-Seeking Orbs. He gets erased.

TSBs and their effects are irrelevant to people with senjutsu

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@spsamurai said:
@hitgirl650 said:

Naruto never uses his Truth-Seeking Orbs. He gets erased.

TSBs and their effects are irrelevant to people with Six Paths senjutsu

Which Naruto, for some reason, never uses anymore,

What are you on about? Naruto has SPSM, everything will be senjutsu based whenever he's in that mode.

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NotCensored

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#56  Edited By NotCensored

With all due respect, this is a bit disingenuous.

It's not

Naruto never matched Kaguya at any time.

He did

In his first clash against her, she broke through his tsb enhanced chakra arms and blew him back with ease.

Right it took Kaguya 1-4 Vacuum Palms to break Sasuke's Susanoo, it took her 4-5 just to overpower Naruto on his own and they weren't TSO enhanced either he only has 5 TSO at that point and theres still 5 behind his back when clashing with Kaguya

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Boil release only managed to break through just one of her vaccum palms and send her flying-and this only happened because she wasn't expecting the counter attack. She literally wasn't any worse for wear afterwards.

Literally her not expecting the counter attack is a pointless counter argument cause Naruto still overpowered her Vacuum Palm when she threw it at him and her not taking damage is also pretty pointless because Naruto took no damage when she threw him back in their first clash as well, the point was that he over powered her not that he damaged her in that specific encounter

His 9 bijuurasenshuriken never "severely damaged her". She was unharmed. She only morphed because of the bijuu chakra resonating with her and destabilizing her chakra.

She came out of it extreme scuffed up and her clothes being damaged (her clothes being the equivalent of Naruto's Chakra Cloak) so yes it still damaged her maybe I over hyped it by severely but I digress

Cutting off her arm is PIS seeing as (1) she was weakened and depleted of chakra

It's not Naruto gets rage amps and has a reactive power level, for example when Neji died out of nowhere he got inexplicably stronger same thing here with Obito

and (2) his strongest attack-the rasenshuriken barrage- failed to harm her.

It did harm her but Naruto's Chakra arms have already been shown to be relative to her in strength so its not an inconsistency neither is blitzing her as she already acknowledged Naruto as fast before hand

I still think Kaguya is stronger obviously just that Naruto is relative which is more than you can say for anyone else in that arc really

@voiceofreason84

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Undre

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Naruto is weaker

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Decaf_Kage

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Decaf_Kage

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#59  Edited By Decaf_Kage

Naruto mid diff at worse.

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VoiceofReason84

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With all due respect, this is a bit disingenuous.

It's not

Naruto never matched Kaguya at any time.

He did

In his first clash against her, she broke through his tsb enhanced chakra arms and blew him back with ease.

Right it took Kaguya 1-4 Vacuum Palms to break Sasuke's Susanoo, it took her 4-5 just to overpower Naruto on his own and they weren't TSO enhanced either he only has 5 TSO at that point and theres still 5 behind his back when clashing with Kaguya

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Boil release only managed to break through just one of her vaccum palms and send her flying-and this only happened because she wasn't expecting the counter attack. She literally wasn't any worse for wear afterwards.

Literally her not expecting the counter attack is a pointless counter argument cause Naruto still overpowered her Vacuum Palm when she threw it at him and her not taking damage is also pretty pointless because Naruto took no damage when she threw him back in their first clash as well, the point was that he over powered her not that he damaged her in that specific encounter

His 9 bijuurasenshuriken never "severely damaged her". She was unharmed. She only morphed because of the bijuu chakra resonating with her and destabilizing her chakra.

She came out of it extreme scuffed up and her clothes being damaged (her clothes being the equivalent of Naruto's Chakra Cloak) so yes it still damaged her maybe I over hyped it by severely but I digress

Cutting off her arm is PIS seeing as (1) she was weakened and depleted of chakra

It's not Naruto gets rage amps and has a reactive power level, for example when Neji died out of nowhere he got inexplicably stronger same thing here with Obito

and (2) his strongest attack-the rasenshuriken barrage- failed to harm her.

It did harm her but Naruto's Chakra arms have already been shown to be relative to her in strength so its not an inconsistency neither is blitzing her as she already acknowledged Naruto as fast before hand

I still think Kaguya is stronger obviously just that Naruto is relative which is more than you can say for anyone else in that arc really

@voiceofreason84

> I don't know where you're getting 1-4 vaccum palms destroying Susano'o. That didn't happen. It took 5 to destroy it and an undetermined amount to overpower Naruto. Also, you literally sent a scan showing him use the TSO. The ones behind him have always been inconsistent. I mean-in your own scan, there are 6 behind him even though there are supposed to be only 5.

> The point is that she wasn't trying to overpower him in her encounter with boil release. That's why she used a single open palm instead of a fist. The way I see it, Boil release being above a single, not attacking vacuum palm is not indicative of being anywhere relative to Kaguya at all.

> She didn't come out of it scuffed up. She came out the exact same way with the exception of a shortened right sleeve. I'm new to the site and I dunno how to post scans so just check chapter 688 page 7-10. Also where are you getting that her clothes are indicative of her chakra?

> When did Naruto use rage amps against Obito again? Sorry, I can't recall. But either way, I don't think this disproves it being PIS.

The 9 RS didn't harm her. And his chakra arms are not relative to her at all. She casually overpowers it the same way she overpowers Susano'o. Also, acknowledging that someone is fast and then consistently dodging attacks from them isn't exactly helping your point that Naruto is faster here. Naruto blitzing a weakened Kaguya isn't really what I'm debating against, it's about him slashing off her arm.

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Abc_voltage

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@voiceofreason84: that’s not a Tsb that’s marking of his cloak he’s had that before he even got the buff

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MyGod000

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people always trying to using Naruto slashing Off Kaguya arm as an indicator that he was stronger or more powerful when Naruto series has always shown that the verse sucks when it comes to resistant cutting attack and piercing attacks.

What is Naruto going to do here? If this is the Madara that absorbed Kaguya he literally loses like he lost against Jigen.

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the_alchemist01

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Naruto low diffs, possibly stomps. Juubito doesn't add much here and Juudara would get pressured by multiple TBRS before getting sealed with a Magnet Style.

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the_alchemist01

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@undre said:

Naruto is weaker

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Where exactly do you see the manga prove he is weaker?? His battle senses getting dull from not fighting for so long doesn't indicate he is weaker.

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MattyBoi

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#65  Edited By MattyBoi

@mygod000: Actually Madara is a knock off Jigen/Isshiki.

Madara only got one god tree(AKA an evolved 10 tails), while Isshiki got countless ones.

Madara is pretty much a wannabe otsutsuki LOL.

Even Momoshiki should logically be stronger than Madara if we ignore feats and scaling(which is what you're doing) and just going off headcanon. I mean, he's had countless god trees too.

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Imagine thinking the novels are non-canon cause they debunk your trash scaling lol

LOL I've had to many people tell me this just because novels debunked their arguments.

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Azureus

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#67 Azureus  Online

@undre:

Naruto isnt blitzing anyone lol. Jubito, Naruto and madara should be relative in speed.

Madara barely manages not to get blitzed here, its only his post-shinjuu forms that allowed him not to get outright trashed by Naruto and Sasuke. Juubito isn't even in the same tier. Name one feat Juubito has that is even sub-relativistic, let alone near Madara.

We seen obito and kage react to 6 paths madara.

They reacted to TSB, not his physical speed.

We seen DMS kakashi

DMS Kakashi has only one feat where he hits Kaguya with his Raikiri, and was never depicted doing anything else aside from reacting to Kaguya's ashbones. But even so DMS Kakashi >>>> One eyed Madara

sakura

This is a lie.

and obito keep up so6p Naruto.

This is another lie.

So blitzing is out of the question. In terms of strength there all relative aswell.

Juubito was beaten by a Majestic Attire: Susanoo by BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke. Both are literally tiers stronger after Six Paths powerups.

One eyed Madara was getting fondled by Naruto and Sasuke. He had to absorb the Shinjuu and get his other Rinnegan to stand on equal ground with them. Do you know how much of a powerup ONE Rinnegan is? That shit turns mid-tiers into top tiers just like that, by just implanting one.

Charka and stamina Madara and obito takes it by a lot.

Well yeah, they have the juubi inside them, but that shit doesn't save em. They're weak as hell compared to the duo.

Naruto would just get overwhelmed by CT and obito spamming jubi bombs.

Naruto gets overwhelmed with CT and Obito spamming Juubi bombs? How? Naruto would easily nuke them shits away.

Boruto Naruto is weaker. Kurama calls him rusty in the fight against jigen and shin.

Rusty refers to his skills, not his stats. Naruto's still a monster.

Naruto got fatigued after a few resangans in his fight with delta. Ect he is but a shell of his former self.

Its trash writing. Naruto is literally stated to have near immeasurable chakra reserves in Boruto, Momoshiki spent hours sucking chakra out of him and only managed to drain half, he has more chakra than he did during his teens according to canon. Yet he and Sasuke just run out of chakra in every fight.

Its just PIS.

Momo is nit above kaguya especially not in base XD. Kaguya litterly blew jigen in half pre god tree amp.

I don't know why this was mentioned.

So team takes it due to more stamina and overwhelming Naruto

Stamina means literally zero here. Stat-wise both get trashed and no one here is dealing greater energy output than Naruto. Naruto mid-diff.

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MattyBoi

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@undre: Not sure how Naruto's fighting senses getting dull makes him weaker but okay.

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MyGod000

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#69  Edited By MyGod000

@mattyboi said:

@mygod000: Actually Madara is a knock off Jigen/Isshiki.

Madara only got one god tree(AKA an evolved 10 tails), while Isshiki got countless ones.

Madara is pretty much a wannabe otsutsuki LOL.

Even Momoshiki should logically be stronger than Madara if we ignore feats and scaling(which is what you're doing) and just going off headcanon. I mean, he's had countless god trees too.

Jigen doesn't even have a Adult Ten tails...so what your point?

I already said Madara was turned into an Otsutsuki months ago, and people were saying I was reaching...then months later we get proof that if you absorb an Otsutsuki you are basically one yourself. Madara had absorbed an Otsutsuki. Madara has an Otsutsuki+Evolved Ten tails.

Jigen only has a Baby Ten tails which is a seedling, and is a failed Vessel.

Prior to all of that he was a monk with no chakra. Madara literally stomps him.

The fact taht Jigen stomped Adult Naruto and Sasuke the same people who one shot Momoshiki Put Jigen above Momoshiki easily.

Jigen has a weaker Otsutsuki, with scaling Madara is more powerful has more Chakra.

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MattyBoi

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#70  Edited By MattyBoi

@theemperor95: Where'd you get that the novels are non canon? Doesn't even matter though, Naruto doesn't need novel feats to stomp here.

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MattyBoi

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Well I'm glad at least some people here aren't lowballing Naruto.

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MattyBoi

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@mygod000:

Jigen doesn't even have a Adult Ten tails...so what your point?

The god tree is literally an evolved 10 tails, have you not been keeping up with the Boruto manga?

I already said Madara was turned into an Otsutsuki months ago, and people were saying I was reaching...then months later we get proof that if you absorb an Otsutsuki you are basically one yourself. Madara had absorbed an Otsutsuki. Madara has an Otsutsuki+Evolved Ten tails.

What Otsutsuki did he "absorb" then? Madara has a 10 tails and God tree, which is fodder to Otsutsukis, who have countless god trees absorbed.

Jigen only has a Baby Ten tails which is a seedling, and is a failed Vessel.

And countless god trees that he absorbed in the past.

Prior to all of that he was a monk with no chakra. Madara literally stomps him.

Your point? Jigen is just a normal guy, but with Isshiki he's much stronger than Madara.

The fact taht Jigen stomped Adult Naruto and Sasuke the same people who one shot Momoshiki Put Jigen above Momoshiki easily.

Exactly, and Momoshiki went around destroying planets and getting god trees casually, to the point where he saw them as fodder, which means the 10 tails is fodder to Momoshiki aswell.

Jigen has a weaker Otsutsuki, with scaling Madara is more powerful has more Chakra.

What?

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MyGod000

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@mattyboi said:

@mygod000:

Jigen doesn't even have a Adult Ten tails...so what your point?

The god tree is literally an evolved 10 tails, have you not been keeping up with the Boruto manga?

I already said Madara was turned into an Otsutsuki months ago, and people were saying I was reaching...then months later we get proof that if you absorb an Otsutsuki you are basically one yourself. Madara had absorbed an Otsutsuki. Madara has an Otsutsuki+Evolved Ten tails.

What Otsutsuki did he "absorb" then? Madara has a 10 tails and God tree, which is fodder to Otsutsukis, who have countless god trees absorbed.

Jigen only has a Baby Ten tails which is a seedling, and is a failed Vessel.

And countless god trees that he absorbed in the past.

Prior to all of that he was a monk with no chakra. Madara literally stomps him.

Your point? Jigen is just a normal guy, but with Isshiki he's much stronger than Madara.

The fact taht Jigen stomped Adult Naruto and Sasuke the same people who one shot Momoshiki Put Jigen above Momoshiki easily.

Exactly, and Momoshiki went around destroying planets and getting god trees casually, to the point where he saw them as fodder, which means the 10 tails is fodder to Momoshiki aswell.

Jigen has a weaker Otsutsuki, with scaling Madara is more powerful has more Chakra.

What?

Madara absorbed Kaguya who was the Juubi.

I only look at a little bit of boruto not a lot. No, the God Tree's are not Fodder where is your headcanon coming from?

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Literally stated the Otsutsuki always Utilize a Ten tails when they Assault a planet.

so...how are they fodder when it stated they always use them for Assaulting planets?

No...they are not Fodder that is just your head canon. Juubi that MAdara has was Absorbing chakra for a long time at least 1000+ years since it takes that long just to fruit a chakra fruit.

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Azureus

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#74 Azureus  Online

@notcensored:

In the Manga Naruto literally bodied him...

Momoshiki was never bodied by Naruto. If you call getting hit hard several times in a fight "bodied", sure... Naruto bodied Momoshiki. At the same time, Naruto wasn't weakened. Just because chakra reserves are far below 100%, doesn't lower power. Its only when they drop below a certain point, where sustaining a fight becomes debilitating does it become weaker.

That said, even Momoshiki in base would trash Naruto with a fresh arsenal of unused techniques. The guy amped a simple lightning jutsu to Juubi levels of power. Fused Momoshiki is even worse because the guy can now match stats without having to rely on his absorption. In that fight, if Naruto and Sasuke didn't have each as backup Momoshiki would've murdered them.

in the novel its stated they're equal to him while weakened mind you, and the Anime is pretty much the same as the novel with them going back and forth with him in weakened states

The novel outright states Momoshiki would've handled either of them if wasn't a 2 v 1 and the entire point of all of that was that they needed to work together to beat him. Moreover, in any of the animation mediums and the manga, Momoshiki had the upper hand against both of them, if they were not receiving help from each other.

Sasuke literally outright implies that Kinshiki and Momoshiki are the ones Kaguya was prepping for in every medium, Urashiki was monitoring Earth the entire time and knew that Kaguya got sealed by her sons so they knew what Kaguya was like at the height of her power and still thought they could slap her and bring her back easily, Kaguya even wrote a scroll agreeing with them

^This is the novel written by Kodachi which is still in continuity and is basically translating what Sasuke said verbatim that Kaguya literally can't compete with the duo without outside help and there's no reason to assume he's any weaker in other mediums when the same general statement from Sasuke is in all of them or that Kodachi as inexplicably changed his mind out of nowhere

That still doesn't say Momoshiki > Kaguya. It says Kaguya is afraid of both of them, and would need outside help fighting them COLLECTIVELY. I don't see Momoshiki or Kinshiki individually taking on Kaguya without each other either, and feats support that.

Moreover, Urashiki may have known, but Momoshiki certainly had no clue. When they arrived on Earth, they asked Sasuke where Kaguya was, unaware she was sealed.

Adult Naruto and Sasuke are on that list as well when they aren't weakened...

Well they weren't. Sasuke had enough chakra to use the mangekyo sharingan, and still have the tomoe the indicate his Rinnegan is sufficiently charged. With that alone, we can assume Sasuke's still at full power. Same goes for Naruto, he's using SPSM and its not especially taxing. Cloaks aren't something Naruto can use if he's low on chakra.

and Kaguya isn't stronger than him, stronger than Base sure who cares but a composite of the two people who scared her shitless definitely not

By feats she outright is.

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ferriserris

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Madara solos

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MattyBoi

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@mygod000:

Madara absorbed Kaguya who was the Juubi.

Kaguya isn't the juubi, the juubi is some of her chakra but not her. When Kaguya came back she's literally confirmed to be above 2x Juubidara.

So I guess Kaguya=Juubi>>>Juubidara by your logic now?


I only look at a little bit of boruto not a lot. No, the God Tree's are not Fodder where is your headcanon coming from?

Well to Momoshiki they were, he literally saw them as fodder.

Literally stated the Otsutsuki always Utilize a Ten tails when they Assault a planet.

Momoshiki and Kinshiki have never used a tentails, at least never shown to use them.

No...they are not Fodder that is just your head canon. Juubi that MAdara has was Absorbing chakra for a long time at least 1000+ years since it takes that long just to fruit a chakra fruit.

Nice, he has the power of 1 god tree, not like Momoshiki has been absorbing god trees for many thousands of years or anything... to the point where he sees them as fodder.

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MyGod000

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@mattyboi said:

@mygod000:

Madara absorbed Kaguya who was the Juubi.

Kaguya isn't the juubi, the juubi is some of her chakra but not her. When Kaguya came back she's literally confirmed to be above 2x Juubidara.

So I guess Kaguya=Juubi>>>Juubidara by your logic now?

I only look at a little bit of boruto not a lot. No, the God Tree's are not Fodder where is your headcanon coming from?

Well to Momoshiki they were, he literally saw them as fodder.

Literally stated the Otsutsuki always Utilize a Ten tails when they Assault a planet.

Momoshiki and Kinshiki have never used a tentails, at least never shown to use them.

No...they are not Fodder that is just your head canon. Juubi that MAdara has was Absorbing chakra for a long time at least 1000+ years since it takes that long just to fruit a chakra fruit.

Nice, he has the power of 1 god tree, not like Momoshiki has been absorbing god trees for many thousands of years or anything... to the point where he sees them as fodder.

Kaguya isn't the juubi, the juubi is some of her chakra but not her. When Kaguya came back she's literally confirmed to be above 2x Juubidara.

So I guess Kaguya=Juubi>>>Juubidara by your logic now?

Madara is confirmed to be above the Juubi in power. It doesn't matter how you twist it, he had everything Kaguya in the Past had which helped her to fight her sons for Months.

Well to Momoshiki they were, he literally saw them as fodder.

Where did he call them fodder at? From what we gathered from the manga all of them needed Juubi to assault planets. so show me where Momoshiki called them fodder when he was literally amazed by 9 tails power?

so by your logic 9 tails>>>Juubi?

Momoshiki and Kinshiki have never used a tentails, at least never shown to use them.

that is an argument from Ignorance. just because they having been shown doesn't mean they haven't done it. when we get an exposition dump that states Their clan always use a Juubi when they assault a planet from the manga.

Nice, he has the power of 1 god tree, not like Momoshiki has been absorbing god trees for many thousands of years or anything... to the point where he sees them as fodder.

Yet he still didn't evolve at all. not every planet has the same amount of chakra or is as big as every planet.

Momoshiki hasn't shown anything on Kaguya level either. it implies that Momoshiki needs pills to bet any threat, while That won't even matter since Madara can just use the planet chakra as a battery as he fights Momoshiki.

it literally GG for Momoshiki. He can't hurt Madara because of his Regeneration. He can't kill him because of Immortality. he literally fighting a losing battle here.

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NotCensored

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#78  Edited By NotCensored

Momoshiki was never bodied by Naruto.If you call getting hit hard several times in a fight "bodied", sure... Naruto bodied Momoshiki

Naruto literally caught all of his punches (some even in base) and then launched him away casually forcing him to do back flips with his own as soon as he powered up thats the definition of getting bodied

At the same time, Naruto wasn't weakened. Just because chakra reserves are far below 100%, doesn't lower power. Its only when they drop below a certain point, where sustaining a fight becomes debilitating does it become weaker.

The amount of Six Paths and Bijuu Chakra correlates to stats directly this argument only applies to regular shinobi with regular chakra even if you're using this argument Naruto and Sasuke would still be weaker than they would be at 100% so the fundamental basis of my argument doesn't change

That said, even Momoshiki in base would trash Naruto with a fresh arsenal of unused techniques. The guy amped a simple lightning jutsu to Juubi levels of power. Fused Momoshiki is even worse because the guy can now match stats without having to rely on his absorption. In that fight, if Naruto and Sasuke didn't have each as backup Momoshiki would've murdered them.

No it would go either way with maybe a slight edge to Momoshiki but if it was one of the Adults at 100% then it would be a slight edge in their favour like i said they're equal or so close the difference is minimal at best

The novel outright states Momoshiki would've handled either of them if wasn't a 2 v 1

No it states "if it was a 1 on 1 he could keep up" which implies equality

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and the entire point of all of that was that they needed to work together to beat him.Moreover, in any of the animation mediums and the manga, Momoshiki had the upper hand against both of them, if they were not receiving help from each other.

Yes because they were weakened

That still doesn't say Momoshiki > Kaguya.

Yes but it does say Kinshiki and Momoshiki > Kaguya at the least which Fused Momoshiki is far stronger than the Otsutsuki duo so the scaling would still be there

It says Kaguya is afraid of both of them, and would need outside help fighting them COLLECTIVELY.

Oppose means to compete she literally can't compete with Momoshiki and Kinshiki without an army and if she can't even fight the duo on their own then she isn't going to fight the fusion thats far stronger than both of them together

I don't see Momoshiki or Kinshiki individually taking on Kaguya without each other either, and feats support that.

Momoshiki in base has as good if not better feats actually in the novels his dimension is as big if not bigger than any one of Kaguya's and he's implied to have caused a Star to undergo supernova in the 3rd Boruto novel

Moreover, Urashiki may have known, but Momoshiki certainly had no clue. When they arrived on Earth, they asked Sasuke where Kaguya was, unaware she was sealed.

Momoshiki was like "Imma go beat her up" and Urashiki didn't object to that like he couldn't pull it off cause just like Kaguya herself he thought Momoshiki could do it as well

Well they weren't. Sasuke had enough chakra to use the mangekyo sharingan, and still have the tomoe the indicate his Rinnegan is sufficiently charged.

That doesn't mean hes not weakened it just means hes not as weakened as he was in the Shin Arc

With that alone, we can assume Sasuke's still at full power.

No we can't because we know for a fact hopping dimensions is taxing on him and many other characters in the verse

Same goes for Naruto, he's using SPSM and its not especially taxing.

Naruto was literally drained to half his Chakra and was visibly sweating before the gang showed up

Cloaks aren't something Naruto can use if he's low on chakra.

He's not low on chakra hes at half more than enough to use a cloak

By feats she outright is.

By feats Frieza literally claps Cell who only has statements to support the notion hes stronger its the same thing here the lore and the narrative take precedent not to mention he has the feats as well

@azureus

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MattyBoi

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@mygod000:

Madara is confirmed to be above the Juubi in power. It doesn't matter how you twist it, he had everything Kaguya in the Past had which helped her to fight her sons for Months.

Except Kaguya is confirmed over 2x stronger than Juubidara, so your argument makes no sense.

Where did he call them fodder at? From what we gathered from the manga all of them needed Juubi to assault planets. so show me where Momoshiki called them fodder when he was literally amazed by 9 tails power?

Why didn't Momoshiki use a juubi to assault earth then? Oh wait... he didn't. It's also stated Momoshiki was the one assaulting and destroying the planets. I'm pretty sure he was amazed by the 9 tail's chakra reserve, not power.

No Caption Provided

Calls the god tree tolerable at best.

that is an argument from Ignorance. just because they having been shown doesn't mean they haven't done it. when we get an exposition dump that states Their clan always use a Juubi when they assault a planet from the manga.

Then why didn't they invade earth with a ten tails?

Yet he still didn't evolve at all. not every planet has the same amount of chakra or is as big as every planet.

Otsutsuki normally don't evolve from getting a god tree, them evolving really means nothing tbh.

Momoshiki hasn't shown anything on Kaguya level either. it implies that Momoshiki needs pills to bet any threat, while That won't even matter since Madara can just use the planet chakra as a battery as he fights Momoshiki.

Gonna ignore the pills statement. Momoshiki actually has shown stuff above Kaguya's level. He's stated to be a greater threat then Kaguya, and even had Kaguya prepare an army just to be able to stand a chance against him. The novel confirms Kaguya needed this army just to be able to do anything to Momoshiki.

it literally GG for Momoshiki. He can't hurt Madara because of his Regeneration. He can't kill him because of Immortality. he literally fighting a losing battle here.

If Kaguya needed an army just to be able to fight BASE Momoshiki, then Fused Momoshiki easily beats Madara. All he has to do is incap Madara, via KO. He just blitzes and one shots him, then drains Madara of all his ten tails chakra(similar to how he restrained Naruto).

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Undre

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@azureus said:

@undre:

Madara barely manages not to get blitzed here, its only his post-shinjuu forms that allowed him not to get outright trashed by Naruto and Sasuke. Juubito isn't even in the same tier. Name one feat Juubito has that is even sub-relativistic, let alone near Madara.

Madara saids the tree just gave him immortality it didnt really amp him. And like i said one rinnegan madara pre senji true was stated to be near hagromom level. And naruto never blizted madara litterly blocks his punch with one hand while hes weakened.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

They reacted to TSB, not his physical speed.

TSB is relative to his own speed

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

Madara pretty much implies tsb is his fastest move

DMS Kakashi has only one feat where he hits Kaguya with his Raikiri, and was never depicted doing anything else aside from reacting to Kaguya's ashbones. But even so DMS Kakashi >>>> One eyed Madara

Thats not the point DMS kakashi had a small amount of 6 paths and should be slower than obito. Yet he can react to Madara and kaguya. Time and Time again its proven 6 paths characters arent that fast. If kage level ninja can react to them

This is a lie

Sakura hit kaguya

and obito keep up so6p Naruto.

This is another lie.

Teleporting ash bone. And with an amp from a weaken obito Kakashi can react to kaguya

Juubito was beaten by a Majestic Attire: Susanoo by BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke. Both are literally tiers stronger after Six Paths powerups.

Obito lost due to talk no justu bro

One eyed Madara was getting fondled by Naruto and Sasuke. He had to absorb the Shinjuu and get his other Rinnegan to stand on equal ground with them. Do you know how much of a powerup ONE Rinnegan is? That shit turns mid-tiers into top tiers just like that, by just implanting one.

Bro Madara with one rinnegan still tagged them both and its pretyy immpresive considering its a 2v1

Well yeah, they have the juubi inside them, but that shit doesn't save em. They're weak as hell compared to the duo.

Naruto gets overwhelmed with CT and Obito spamming Juubi bombs? How? Naruto would easily nuke them shits away.

Nahh if jubito will shot them at close range and cover himself with tsb if Naruto throws a biju bomb aswell he will just kill himself he doesnt jave tsb to protect him

Rusty refers to his skills, not his stats. Naruto's still a monster.

Hes not taking on 2 6 paths sages at once.

Naruto got fatigued after a few resangans in his fight with delta. Ect he is but a shell of his former self.

Its trash writing. Naruto is literally stated to have near immeasurable chakra reserves in Boruto, Momoshiki spent hours sucking chakra out of him and only managed to drain half, he has more chakra than he did during his teens according to canon. Yet he and Sasuke just run out of chakra in every fight.

Its just PIS.

Okay Naruto hasnt shown the stamina he had in the war arc. He got the other half of kurama but he also lost tsb and his real arm

Momo is nit above kaguya especially not in base XD. Kaguya litterly blew jigen in half pre god tree amp.

I don't know why this was mentioned.

So team takes it due to more stamina and overwhelming Naruto

Stamina means literally zero here. Stat-wise both get trashed and no one here is dealing greater energy output than Naruto. Naruto mid-diff.

You littlery have no proof hes faster and stronger then the duo. Your just assuming. Naruto has shown nothing impressive in boruto at all

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SobekApep7

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Juubito is low tier here, and 1 eyed Juubidara loses mid diff at best.

inb4" naruto got wEaKer dur"

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Azureus

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#82 Azureus  Online

@notcensored:

Naruto literally caught all of his punches (some even in base) and then launched him away casually forcing him to do back flips with his own as soon as he powered up thats the definition of getting bodied

This is the bulk of what Naruto did to Momoshiki:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Prior to this, he blocked a punch, and dodged two attacks in base. As far as I can tell Naruto got some hits in, but nothing decisive happened.

The amount of Six Paths and Bijuu Chakra correlates to stats directly this argument only applies to regular shinobi with regular chakra...

Come again? Why would that be the case?

even if you're using this argument Naruto and Sasuke would still be weaker than they would be at 100% so the fundamental basis of my argument doesn't change

Anyone with adequate chakra to keep fighting unhindered without any effects is straight up still at 100%. Power levels don't drop simply because you opened a portal to another dimension, or because you only have half of your astronomically large chakra reserves taken away.

No it would go either way with maybe a slight edge to Momoshiki...

How would it still be an even fight when Momoshiki unleashed a jutsu that straight up tore a portion of Susanoo and the Bijuu avatar? That's borderline one-shot potential if there's no protection and that was a weak attack by his standards.

Why do you think it was imperative for Momoshiki to have no access to jutsu?

but if it was one of the Adults at 100%...

There was never a point they weren't.

Yes because they were weakened

And yet there was never a single piece of canon evidence to back this. At which point was it ever shown or illustrated that Naruto and Sasuke were weakened as a result of having less chakra?

Yes but it does say Kinshiki and Momoshiki > Kaguya...

No, there's still Urashiki in the equation and it says Kaguya was afraid of them. That doesn't necessitate them being stronger than her, but says they are capable of beating her.

Moreover, Sasuke himself omits the details of the scroll and just gives the general rundown of the situation.

Oppose means to compete she literally can't compete with Momoshiki and Kinshiki without an army and if she can't even fight the duo on their own then she isn't going to fight the fusion thats far stronger than both of them together

If all she needed was a Zetsu army to fight Momoshiki and Kinshiki, I'm willing to bet they're not stronger than her.

Momoshiki in base has as good if not better feats actually in the novels his dimension is as big if not bigger than any one of Kaguya's and he's implied to have caused a Star to undergo supernova in the 3rd Boruto novel

So are there any actual combat applicable feats, because Kaguya still surpasses this.

Momoshiki was like "Imma go beat her up" and Urashiki didn't object to that like he couldn't pull it off cause just like Kaguya herself he thought Momoshiki could do it as well

This is further evidence that Momoshiki wasn't up to date with Kaguya's situation, if he was bent on fighting a person who is no longer present.

That doesn't mean hes not weakened it just means hes not as weakened as he was in the Shin Arc

What evidence exists to say he was weakened at all to begin with? In the Shin Arc we know he was nerfed because it was outright said.

No we can't because we know for a fact hopping dimensions is taxing on him and many other characters in the verse

No, we know dimension hopping consumes a lot of chakra, but these guys have massive chakra reserves in their own right. It still manageable for Sasuke, he's not Obito remember, we've seen him do it rather effortlessly.

Naruto was literally drained to half his Chakra...

Which means he has half of his chakra remaining. Half for him, is still a LOT. It doesn't mean he has half of his power. They didn't rip half his power level away.

and was visibly sweating before the gang showed up

Well the chakra extraction process isb painful, which was shown...

He's not low on chakra hes at half more than enough to use a cloak

Then why is he weakened, when he has more than enough to sustain his strongest form? I don't understand.

By feats Frieza literally claps Cell who only has statements to support the notion hes stronger its the same thing here the lore and the narrative take precedent not to mention he has the feats as well

Aside from blatantly overpowering the one who beat Frieza in the first place, or blitzing people who would manhandle Goku because they have feats manhandling characters who have feats on Goku's level. If you ignore those, you can say that.

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Anomalous

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Naruto mid-high diff. Team has the firepower advantage by a mile but both of them (especially Juubito) are too slow.

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Azureus

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#84  Edited By Azureus  Online

@azureus:

Madara saids the tree just gave him immortality it didnt really amp him.

The Shinjuu tree is what gave Madara the Rinne-sharingan. You about to tell me that's not an amp?

And like i said one rinnegan madara pre senji true was stated to be near hagromom level.

....So was Juubito. Your point?

And naruto never blizted madara litterly blocks his punch with one hand while hes weakened.

I thought I made it pretty clear that Madara isn't in blitzing range

TSB is relative to his own speed

So Madara is about as fast as 6th gate Lee? That interesting.

Madara pretty much implies tsb is his fastest move

No he doesn't. What's light fang then? Am I to assume anyone capable of avoiding the TSB is now FTL?

Thats not the point DMS kakashi had a small amount of 6 paths and should be slower than obito, Yet he can react to Madara and kaguya.

? That's not how it works. Kakashi has better feats than Obito and the others. So based on those feats we rate him higher. You wouldn't say The Last BSM Naruto is weaker than Juubito just because he has no Six Paths Chakra, even though he has better feats.

Time and Time again its proven 6 paths characters arent that fast. If kage level ninja can react to them

This is just pure nonsense.

Sakura hit kaguya

That's not even a legit showing. Why is this still being brought up?

Teleporting ash bone. And with an amp from a weaken obito Kakashi can react to kaguya

More illegitimate showings guided by Nakama BS. PIS unless you believe Obito and Kakashi can react to Ashbones when Naruto barely could, while subjected to gravity in which Kaguya, Naruto and Sasuke couldn't even stand in.

Obito lost due to talk no justu bro

Sakura punches Kaguya to prevent her from escaping Naruto/Sasuke who were inches away, and still too slow to tag her.

> Legit showing

Obito loses to Naruto/Sasuke

> Talk no jutsu

Ok, then bud.

Bro Madara with one rinnegan still tagged them both....

That never happened. The best Madara has ever done against them after the power ups is a stalemate.

Nahh if jubito will shot them at close range...

Why is close range a problem? Naruto was going to nuke Momoshiki's TBB just the same, and that thing was just as large as a Juubi dama.

and cover himself with tsb...

Juubito's TSB gets destroyed, Naruto has senjutsu.

if Naruto throws a biju bomb aswell he will just kill himself he doesnt jave tsb to protect him

Naruto ate Momoshiki's supercharged TSB and even concentrated the damage on himself. Only got KOed(wasn't even injured) because he wasn't protecting himself. Sasuke on the other hand, no sold it with Susanoo, proving Naruto coulda tanked it all along.

How tf is a Juubi-dama killing Naruto?

Hes not taking on 2 6 paths sages at once.

Both are way weaker than he is so yes, he is.

Okay Naruto hasnt shown the stamina he had in the war arc.

This literally what you said last time. Again, trash writing.

He got the other half of kurama but he also lost tsb and his real arm

  • TSB don't get replaced when destroyed... how does that affect Naruto's chakra level?
  • Naruto received an arm with Hashirama cells, so that should boost his stamina more.

You littlery have no proof hes faster and stronger then the duo.

The War Arc proves he is a teen, so no.

Your just assuming. Naruto has shown nothing impressive in boruto at all

His feats from Naruto still carry over. They don't magically disappear and I'm still inclined to disagree with you anyway.

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AlternisDim

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Juubito and Juudara wins.

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MyGod000

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Momoshiki's TBB did about as much damage as a normal Juubi Dama.

the difference here is Juubi can not only do normal Juubi Damas, but also Super Juubi Dama's which are many Tiers more powerful.

The only Juubi we saw doing that was Obito's which only had 7.2 Tailed beast. While Madara's Juubi had 8.5 tailed beast and had Absorb BSM Naruto and BM minato chakra.

We never saw a Juubi Dama from The Juubi Madara had, but he was easily far more powerful than Obito's juubi.

Madara should be capable of win this on his with mid diff

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MyGod000

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@azureus:

a normal Juubi Dama may not kill Naruto...but a Super Juubi Dama would definitely kill Naruto.

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TheEmperor95

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@mattyboi: they were meant for a movie that was retconned that's what makes me think so

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TheEmperor95

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@themingebaron66: half of kurama became completely irrelevant once he got SOSP mode. Sasuke having better mastery is moot as he isn't as lethal with his powers. Hell an opponent sent to guard naruto knowing full well that sasuke could comeback (the person that sent him even thought it was sasuke to defeat him) got beat and blitzed by mere genin

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MyGod000

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#91  Edited By MyGod000

@mattyboi:

Except Kaguya is confirmed over 2x stronger than Juubidara, so your argument makes no sense.

It make perfect sense, you are just not comprehending it. Madara can Be 2x weaker than Kaguya...it doesn't change the scaling at all. Isshiki is even more than 2 x Jigen, Madara is closer in power with a Stronger Otsutsuki than Isshiki.

Why didn't Momoshiki use a juubi to assault earth then? Oh wait... he didn't. It's also stated Momoshiki was the one assaulting and destroying the planets. I'm pretty sure he was amazed by the 9 tail's chakra reserve, not power. Calls the god tree tolerable at best.

The failed Juubi of Obito has leagues more chakra Reserves than the 9 tails Momoshiki was trying to absorb. That nice headcanon. he specifically said Chakra. That nice, Going by the Lore the juubi has planet level power anyways and Madara absorb the Juubi+ the God Tree(Kaguya) The manga take priority over that Retconned Boruto Movie Novel, the Manga states all the Otsutsuki's use a ten tails to Assault planets.

You can go with the Idea of a novel from 2015...that is basically non-canon now...while I'm going to go with Manga which the Creator actually goes over.

No Caption Provided

If you where able to comprehend he said: For a world with a low level of Civilization, it is a tolerable Crop.

The only thing that proves is that the Fruit Momoshiki was eating was far weaker than Kaguya's. so far...we've established that Momoshiki Crop is far Weaker than Kaguya's and Going by the Manga we know Kaguya had more than just one Chakra Fruit.

The Shinju is the God Tree buddy LMFAO...you didn't prove anything at all.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

The Ten Tails Grows into the Divine Tree, in the Novel you posted Momoshiki was consuming the Divine tree which was a Ten tails.

As I said the Otsutsuki's always assault planets with a ten tails, and i'm pretty sure the Divine Tree is what destroyed the planet not momoshiki since it states this:

No Caption Provided

We literally see Kaguya with 4 Chakra Fruits at least before she came to earth.

Like I said Momoshiki from your novel was invading planets with low level of life on it resulting in far weaker Chakra fruit and power.

Then why didn't they invade earth with a ten tails?

Because they didn't have one, Momoshiki was trying to create on by gathering the chakra from earth.

as It proven Otsutsuki's with Juubi's>>>Otsutsuki's without Juubi's.

Otsutsuki normally don't evolve from getting a god tree, them evolving really means nothing tbh.

Headcanon.

No Caption Provided

Even your Outdated Retconned Novel States that Momoshiki Evolved after turning his comrade into a Fruit...so literally all you are doing is contradicting yourself here buddy.

Gonna ignore the pills statement. Momoshiki actually has shown stuff above Kaguya's level. He's stated to be a greater threat then Kaguya, and even had Kaguya prepare an army just to be able to stand a chance against him. The novel confirms Kaguya needed this army just to be able to do anything to Momoshiki.

No, Momoshiki literally got Clapped by Naruto and Sasuke. The same Naruto and sasuke got clapped by Jigen who is less than 50% of prime Isshiki. Kaguya>>Madara>>Jigen>>>>Momoshiki.

No, Momoshiki doesn't have any feats Near Kaguya. So...what, we already know Momoshiki by himself can't even beat Kaguya. Momoshiki was beaten by Continental level Naruto and Sasuke. The Juubi in a weakened State can spam Continental level Juubi Dama's.

If Kaguya needed an army just to be able to fight BASE Momoshiki, then Fused Momoshiki easily beats Madara. All he has to do is incap Madara, via KO. He just blitzes and one shots him, then drains Madara of all his ten tails chakra(similar to how he restrained Naruto).

too bad that Scaling from the novels don't me crap anymore when Jigen a much more powerful Foe than Momoshiki is stated to be less than 50% of Isshiki, was able to clap Naruto and sasuke.

Madara was the perfect Vessel for Kaguya and is 50% of her power. this Kaguya is way more powerful than the Kaguya with Isshiki.

through Scaling the fact that Madara is 50% of Kaguya put him above Jigen who isn't even 50% of isshiki who is weaker than Kaguya.

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MattyBoi

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@mygod000:

It make perfect sense, you are just not comprehending it. Madara can Be 2x weaker than Kaguya...it doesn't change the scaling at all. Isshiki is even more than 2 x Jigen, Madara is closer in power with a Stronger Otsutsuki than Isshiki.

Madara is literal fodder to Kaguya, much more than 2x. Isshiki being over 2x Jigen's strength is headcanon.

The failed Juubi of Obito has leagues more chakra Reserves than the 9 tails Momoshiki was trying to absorb. That nice headcanon. he specifically said Chakra. That nice, Going by the Lore the juubi has planet level power anyways and Madara absorb the Juubi+ the God Tree(Kaguya) The manga take priority over that Retconned Boruto Movie Novel, the Manga states all the Otsutsuki's use a ten tails to Assault planets.

Exactly, Momoshiki was referring to the chakra reserve, not the actual power. Plus, his purpose is to absorb chakra, why would he not want it? It's never stated that the juubi has planet level power, even if we wank it to that level, Juubidara got one shotted by SM Naruto, SM Naruto is beyond planet level now. Kaguya was gonna destroy a multi star-solar system level dimension, and Momoshiki is above that, so even if the Juubi is planet level(which it isn't, this has been debunked countless times), it doesn't make much of a difference since they have long surpassed that and it would only help my scaling.

Also no, manga does not take priority over anything. Novels/Manga/Anime are all equally canon unless you can show me where it states the novel isn't canon. Also still waiting for you to show me when Momoshiki used a ten tails to assault earth.

You can go with the Idea of a novel from 2015...that is basically non-canon now...while I'm going to go with Manga which the Creator actually goes over.

Proof that the novel is non canon?

The only thing that proves is that the Fruit Momoshiki was eating was far weaker than Kaguya's. so far...we've established that Momoshiki Crop is far Weaker than Kaguya's and Going by the Manga we know Kaguya had more than just one Chakra Fruit.

Headcanon. Also, Momoshiki has had countless chakra fruits, so I don't see your point there.

The Shinju is the God Tree buddy LMFAO...

Exactly?

The Ten Tails Grows into the Divine Tree, in the Novel you posted Momoshiki was consuming the Divine tree which was a Ten tails.

Exactly?

As I said the Otsutsuki's always assault planets with a ten tails, and i'm pretty sure the Divine Tree is what destroyed the planet not momoshiki since it states this:

The novel literally states Momoshiki destroyed the planet, not anything else, you're going off pure headcanon there.

Like I said Momoshiki from your novel was invading planets with low level of life on it resulting in far weaker Chakra fruit and power.

All otsutsukis invade planets with low life, including Kaguya.

Because they didn't have one, Momoshiki was trying to create on by gathering the chakra from earth.

But you just said all otsutsukis invade planets with a ten tails...

Headcanon.

Okay show me any otsutsuki besides Kaguya who evolved from eating a chakra fruit.

Even your Outdated Retconned Novel States that Momoshiki Evolved after turning his comrade into a Fruit...so literally all you are doing is contradicting yourself here buddy.

He only evolved because he turned another otsutsuki into a chakra fruit, he doesn't evolve from normal fruits.

No, Momoshiki literally got Clapped by Naruto and Sasuke. The same Naruto and sasuke got clapped by Jigen who is less than 50% of prime Isshiki. Kaguya>>Madara>>Jigen>>>>Momoshiki.

Canon disagrees with you.

It's literally stated outright that Momoshiki and Kinshiki>>>Kaguya(without army).

No, Momoshiki doesn't have any feats Near Kaguya. So...what, we already know Momoshiki by himself can't even beat Kaguya. Momoshiki was beaten by Continental level Naruto and Sasuke. The Juubi in a weakened State can spam Continental level Juubi Dama's.

So now "Continental" Fused Momoshiki>Kaguya? What?

too bad that Scaling from the novels don't me crap anymore when Jigen a much more powerful Foe than Momoshiki is stated to be less than 50% of Isshiki, was able to clap Naruto and sasuke.

Yes and?

Madara was the perfect Vessel for Kaguya and is 50% of her power. this Kaguya is way more powerful than the Kaguya with Isshiki.

Actually, it's confirmed Kaguya is over 2x Madara.

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MyGod000

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@mattyboi:

Madara is literal fodder to Kaguya, much more than 2x. Isshiki being over 2x Jigen's strength is headcanon.

nope, what is stated is that Kaguya is Far Stronger than Madara.

being 2 x stronger is far stronger. the fact that we have a Actually statement of the I.T chakra which is Juubi+ level, and Madara who is Juubi+ level deducing all that we come to the conclusion that base Kaguya is only 2x prime Madara.

Exactly, Momoshiki was referring to the chakra reserve, not the actual power. Plus, his purpose is to absorb chakra, why would he not want it? It's never stated that the juubi has planet level power, even if we wank it to that level, Juubidara got one shotted by SM Naruto, SM Naruto is beyond planet level now. Kaguya was gonna destroy a multi star-solar system level dimension, and Momoshiki is above that, so even if the Juubi is planet level(which it isn't, this has been debunked countless times), it doesn't make much of a difference since they have long surpassed that and it would only help my scaling.

Also no, manga does not take priority over anything. Novels/Manga/Anime are all equally canon unless you can show me where it states the novel isn't canon. Also still waiting for you to show me when Momoshiki used a ten tails to assault earth.

who said Momoshiki wouldn't want the chakra? I never argued that, I said his chakra that he was harvesting was fodder compared to Kaguya's. Madara being only 2x weaker than her Nothing Momoshiki has would make much of a difference against them.

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sage mode is a weakness to Juubi. so...that irrelevant because Momoshiki doesn't even have sage mode anyways. Momoshiki was going to use Naruto's Chakra to recreate the Divine Tree, since Naruto is a pedo Ten tails, stated by Shikamaru who also stated Boruto era Naruto and Sasuke are only continental level which is leagues below Kaguya , Madara, and Juubi. the Boruto movie novel is outdated because it only for the Movie...which they did in the manga. You are misquoting the novel anyways.

when it said the Star that momoshiki was on died, that was actually talking about the Planet, because he also calls Earth a Star as well. I'm pretty sure the planet died because of the God Tree absorbing all the planets chakra and the planet slowly dying after that not from Momoshiki Absorbing the planets or Destroying the planet. the manga explicitly states that the divine Tree Absorbs the chakra of the planet and then the planet and it people dies out naturally then the Otsutsuki eat the chakra fruit and leave for another planet. so they are not some unbeatable planet destroys. The God Trees are the ones that destroys the planets Not the Otsutsuki they are just there to eat the fruit and leave for another planet.

Proof that the novel is non canon?

It non-canon because we have updated source on the topic. You wouldn't try and use the Battle of Gods Movie to argue about DBS.

Headcanon. Also, Momoshiki has had countless chakra fruits, so I don't see your point there.

all those Fruit he ate where from planets with little to no life so fodder tier like you said. Like I said Kaguya Fruit>>>>>>>>Momoshiki's Fruit.

Exactly?

My point was he used the God Tree on that planet, just because he didn't use it on Earth means nothing because we have statements from a historian who's been Studying Them and Kaguya.

The novel literally states Momoshiki destroyed the planet, not anything else, you're going off pure headcanon there

this is why the novel is non-canon because it contradicts the manga. when it contradicts the manga then we dismiss it as non-canon source since the Manga states the God tree is what destroys the planet not The Otsutsuki's. since the Manga is the author's intent We don't need to pursue this any further since Manga Takes priority.

All otsutsukis invade planets with low life, including Kaguya.

not true, since the toad Sage existed on earth and had pretty much the most chakra before Kaguya and Hagoromo and Hamura came here.

according to him the Senjutsu land has a lot of chakra.

But you just said all otsutsukis invade planets with a ten tails...

I did, the manga establishes this...

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The author intent is that the Ten Tails Turns into the God Tree and sucks up all the chakra from the planet, and then eventually all life dies on that planet and the Otsutsuki eat the chakra fruit.

Okay show me any otsutsuki besides Kaguya who evolved from eating a chakra fruit.

Momoshiki after he turned Kinishiki into a fruit.

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He only evolved because he turned another otsutsuki into a chakra fruit, he doesn't evolve from normal fruits.

He evolved because the Fruits he had been eating didn't have enough chakra to really do much for him.

The Novel you showed explicitly states this as well that the Fruit Momoshiki was eating wasn't even that strong. So...like I said Momoshiki fruit where fodder compared to Kaguya's.

Canon disagrees with you.

It's literally stated outright that Momoshiki and Kinshiki>>>Kaguya(without army).

Nope, that was Sasuke's own theory, then later we see that Momoshiki was pretty much fodder since Continental Level fighter Sasuke and Naruto was clapping him around.

Kaguya is star level with ESTB...and if Momoshiki was more powerful than her then No way no matter how much you want to spin it would a continental level fighters would be owning him like that.

So now "Continental" Fused Momoshiki>Kaguya? What?

Kaguya is above Momoshiki, no matter how hard you try and spin it. even the games state that Kaguya>Momoshiki.

the Fact taht a weaker Naruto and sasuke could stomp Momoshiki proves it as well.

Actually, it's confirmed Kaguya is over 2x Madara.

No where does it stated or confirms that Kaguya is more than 2 times Madara.

like I said scaling I.T and Madara both of which is greater than Juubi and Madara needed both of them to be revived proves that their is only a 50% gap between base Kaguya and Prime Madara.

Now, if you are talking about Rabbit Goddess Kaguya then Sure she would be more than 2 x Madara, but honestly I can say she is only 3x Madara.

since Naruto and Sasuke where still able to react to her and challenge her...with that Naruto and Sasuke both stated they needed each other to defeat Madara.

1 eyed Madara=>Both Naruto and Sasuke

since Adult Naruto no longer has the Seal which had Hagoromo's Chakra he is considerably weaker than before.

that is a Fact, since before he could handle planet+ level fighters and Star level fighters with Hagoromo chakra, and now since they lost it they got owned by a Jigen who over 50% weaker than Isshiki who lost to KAguya.

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@mygod000:

nope, what is stated is that Kaguya is Far Stronger than Madara.

being 2 x stronger is far stronger. the fact that we have a Actually statement of the I.T chakra which is Juubi+ level, and Madara who is Juubi+ level deducing all that we come to the conclusion that base Kaguya is only 2x prime Madara.

Show me where it says the I.T chakra>the juubi in power. And no, Kaguya isn't only 2x Madara, she has feats and statements above him.

who said Momoshiki wouldn't want the chakra? I never argued that, I said his chakra that he was harvesting was fodder compared to Kaguya's. Madara being only 2x weaker than her Nothing Momoshiki has would make much of a difference against them.

Prove that the chakra he was harvesting is fodder then. All Kaguya harvested was one god tree(on screen) so i dont know where you got that idea from.

sage mode is a weakness to Juubi. so...that irrelevant because Momoshiki doesn't even have sage mode anyways. Momoshiki was going to use Naruto's Chakra to recreate the Divine Tree, since Naruto is a pedo Ten tails, stated by Shikamaru who also stated Boruto era Naruto and Sasuke are only continental level which is leagues below Kaguya , Madara, and Juubi. the Boruto movie novel is outdated because it only for the Movie...which they did in the manga. You are misquoting the novel anyways.

No it's not. Senjutsu just bypasses the juubi's ability.

Bypassing =/= being weak to it. It's not like kryptonite to Juubidara. Shikamaru doesn't know Naruto and Sasuke's full power anyway, and the continental statement is debunked by their other feats. The novel is still canon aswell as the movie so I don't see your point.

when it said the Star that momoshiki was on died, that was actually talking about the Planet, because he also calls Earth a Star as well. I'm pretty sure the planet died because of the God Tree absorbing all the planets chakra and the planet slowly dying after that not from Momoshiki Absorbing the planets or Destroying the planet. the manga explicitly states that the divine Tree Absorbs the chakra of the planet and then the planet and it people dies out naturally then the Otsutsuki eat the chakra fruit and leave for another planet. so they are not some unbeatable planet destroys. The God Trees are the ones that destroys the planets Not the Otsutsuki they are just there to eat the fruit and leave for another planet.

That's literally what I said, star is a mistranslation for planet. No, the planet was destroyed by Momoshiki, i'm not gonna argue any further on this as it's directly stated Momoshiki destroyed the planet.

It non-canon because we have updated source on the topic. You wouldn't try and use the Battle of Gods Movie to argue about DBS.

What's this "updated" novel then? Even if it's updated, the original is still equally canon based off statements unless proven otherwise.

all those Fruit he ate where from planets with little to no life so fodder tier like you said. Like I said Kaguya Fruit>>>>>>>>Momoshiki's Fruit.

Proof that all his fruits that he ate were from fodder? Also, Earth was fodder aswell before Kaguya came there so your argument falls apart. Also, you're going off headcanon here.

My point was he used the God Tree on that planet, just because he didn't use it on Earth means nothing because we have statements from a historian who's been Studying Them and Kaguya.

?

this is why the novel is non-canon because it contradicts the manga. when it contradicts the manga then we dismiss it as non-canon source since the Manga states the God tree is what destroys the planet not The Otsutsuki's. since the Manga is the author's intent We don't need to pursue this any further since Manga Takes priority.

The anime contradicts the manga and is still equally canon... so your argument falls apart again.

not true, since the toad Sage existed on earth and had pretty much the most chakra before Kaguya and Hagoromo and Hamura came here.

according to him the Senjutsu land has a lot of chakra.

Still fodder to multiple god trees, 8 tails and 9 tails chakra, so this argument doesn't work.

The author intent is that the Ten Tails Turns into the God Tree and sucks up all the chakra from the planet, and then eventually all life dies on that planet and the Otsutsuki eat the chakra fruit.

The novel doesn't contradict any of this, it just adds that Momoshiki destroyed the planet aswell.

Momoshiki after he turned Kinishiki into a fruit.

That's another Otsutsuki, not a natural chakra fruit. Try again.

He evolved because the Fruits he had been eating didn't have enough chakra to really do much for him.

The Novel you showed explicitly states this as well that the Fruit Momoshiki was eating wasn't even that strong. So...like I said Momoshiki fruit where fodder compared to Kaguya's.

Headcanon, and that argument makes no sense.

Exactly, the chakra fruits, which >>>>Ten tails are fodder to Momoshiki. Also, you never proved how Kaguya's fruits>Momoshikis btw.

Nope, that was Sasuke's own theory, then later we see that Momoshiki was pretty much fodder since Continental Level fighter Sasuke and Naruto was clapping him around.

Kaguya is star level with ESTB...and if Momoshiki was more powerful than her then No way no matter how much you want to spin it would a continental level fighters would be owning him like that.

So "continental fighters" can tank hits from and beat people who can destroy planets in base casually? Huh? And no, it was the novel outright saying Kaguya without army is weaker than Momoshiki.

Well, the novel confirms Momoshiki>>>Kaguya, so nothing you say will change that. You lost this argument here, sorry pal.

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@mygod000: If you can't prove the statement wrong then there's no point in debating here.

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#96  Edited By Azureus  Online

@mygod000 said:

@azureus:

a normal Juubi Dama may not kill Naruto...but a Super Juubi Dama would definitely kill Naruto.

If Naruto tried to no sell it without protection, maybe. Juubito's TSB shield and the Four Crimson Ray Barrier ate 4 Supercharged Juubi Damas, and remained unscathed. Naruto's Six Paths Bijuu Avatar scales above them by feats.

So I think Naruto can outright no sell it if he has constructs to protect himself further.

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Give Madara Rinne Sharingan and Adult Naruto still stomps

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@mattyboi:

Show me where it says the I.T chakra>the juubi in power. And no, Kaguya isn't only 2x Madara, she has feats and statements above him.

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The Said the Chakra that Madara was absorbing was So Dense, and Sasuke stated it was the I.T Chakra. Naruto than Said the Chakra was greater than Juubi.

I.T Chakra>Juubi's Chakra.

Prove that the chakra he was harvesting is fodder then. All Kaguya harvested was one god tree(on screen) so i dont know where you got that idea from.

The Boruto Manga showed her with Multiple God Tree's. Can you not comprehend your own scans? Earth has Far more chakra then the planets Momoshiki was harvesting.

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Momoshik stated for a world with a Low Level of Civilization, it Is a Tolerable Crop. That's all the information we need to understand that the God Tree he ate wasn't all that powerful.

No it's not. Senjutsu just bypasses the juubi's ability.

Bypassing =/= being weak to it. It's not like kryptonite to Juubidara. Shikamaru doesn't know Naruto and Sasuke's full power anyway, and the continental statement is debunked by their other feats. The novel is still canon aswell as the movie so I don't see your point.

The manga said it the weakness of the Juubi... it doesn't matter what your theory on it is when we have direct statements from the authors manga stating otherwise. sure it bypasses the TSB...but that not the point...it specifically said by Obito to be a weakness of the Juubi.

the manga statements>>>>your opinion.

That's literally what I said, star is a mistranslation for planet. No, the planet was destroyed by Momoshiki, i'm not gonna argue any further on this as it's directly stated Momoshiki destroyed the planet.

It doesn't matter what being stated from a non-canon source, the fact of the matter is the manga which the Author looks over and the Creator of the Boruto Movie novels both have spoken.

you can argue all you want on Ukyo Kodachi work from the novels in 2016 Vs 2020 boruto Manga statements.

the fact of the matter is We go with what is recent, and his Recent statement is that God Tree are what destroys the planets not the Otsutsuki's. They eat the Fruit and leave the planet to die.

you can argue the Otsutsuki's indirectly are the cause of the planet being destroyed but that is it. Kodachi has Retconned those ideas from 2016.

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so the author's intent is that God Tree destroy the planet by sucking up all the chakra from it and then the clan Otsutsuki leave for another.

unless you're claiming to know more than Kishimoto and Kodachi who wrote your novel, and the Manga you are right their is no argument here for you that is.

What's this "updated" novel then? Even if it's updated, the original is still equally canon based off statements unless proven otherwise.

That head canon. Where is this stated at? show me an interview.

Their is no updated Novel, there is just the Boruto Manga, which contradict your arguments and the novels.

Kodachi wrote the Boruto Novel that you are quoting...So...what he wrote in 2016 is irrelevant when his Manga contradict what he wrote.

Kishimoto oversees the Boruto manga so we are getting direct confirmation from the Actually Author and Co Author Backing up the Boruto Manga...while you only have what Kodachi from 2016 said in the boruto movie Novel.

your concession is excepted on this, unless you can prove they are "equally" canon as you say when one of the works contradicts the other.

Proof that all his fruits that he ate were from fodder? Also, Earth was fodder aswell before Kaguya came there so your argument falls apart. Also, you're going off headcanon here.

because he didn't get any significant boost. he didn't Evolve, he only evolved after eating Kinishiki.

While Kaguya has evolved.

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We first see KAguya in the Boruto Manga hanging with Momoshik and she didn't have her Rinne-Sharingan.

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Then some time later we see her with her Partner with a Rinne-Sharingan.

There is your proof that for KAguya getting more powerful Before and After she left Momoshiki.

Prove that the Planets momoshiki went to had nearly as much inhabitants as Earth.

Momoshiki had already stated the planet had low level of Civilization on it. I just countered that argument with the fact that Earth had toad Sages, and snake Sages. even back then, how do you think Jiraiya Learned to be a toad Sage? Clearly no by himself.

The anime contradicts the manga and is still equally canon... so your argument falls apart again.

Who said it's equally canon?

Still fodder to multiple god trees, 8 tails and 9 tails chakra, so this argument doesn't work.

I never argued the Toad Sage> God Tree. I argued Toad Sage>>Normal Humans.

it's a whole World of them on Earth. Now, I'm asking you to prove the planets Momoshiki went to even has a Toad Sage.

The novel doesn't contradict any of this, it just adds that Momoshiki destroyed the planet aswell.

That made no Sense. the novel is from 2016, so how is it adding anything? The manga I'm quoting is from 2020 which goes into an exposition dump and explains the Original of the Otsutsuki, and their purpose.

So...like I said we have new information, which contradicts the old information...We use the updated information.

That's another Otsutsuki, not a natural chakra fruit. Try again.

I mean humans chakra isn't natural Chakra fruit either so...I don't get what you are arguing here. The God tree turns people chakra into Chakra Fruit. Momoshiki turned Kinishiki's chakra into Chakra fruit.

It's not that hard to comprehend buddy.

Headcanon, and that argument makes no sense.

Exactly, the chakra fruits, which >>>>Ten tails are fodder to Momoshiki. Also, you never proved how Kaguya's fruits>Momoshikis btw.

No, it just proves that Kinishiki Chakra was higher than the Chakra on that planet Momoshiki was eating.

No, full Grown Ten tails>>Planet level chakra. The planet Momoshiki went to didn't have Chakra, the God Tree drains the people on the planets Vitality and turns it into chakra.

It just means Kinishiki>All the people on that planet Energy combined.

since the people on the planet are literally just normal Humans with little stamina to start with it not like the Juubi from the War which is massively more powerful.

It took a planet of people with Chakra to be more powerful than the Juubi. even Normal Chinun>>>Normal Humans with no chakra.

So "continental fighters" can tank hits from and beat people who can destroy planets in base casually? Huh? And no, it was the novel outright saying Kaguya without army is weaker than Momoshiki.

Well, the novel confirms Momoshiki>>>Kaguya, so nothing you say will change that. You lost this argument here, sorry pal.

Okay, and Kodachi is the one who Wrote the Novel, and later Retconned that idea Because Kaguya>>Isshiki>>>Jigen>>Adult Naruto& Sasuke>Momoshiki.

So like I keep saying what he wrote in a novel back in 2016 is irrelevant when now he is showing us that KAguya& Isshiki>>>>>Momoshiki&Kinishiki.

No, It just means Momoshiki isn't planet level like I've been telling you since 2019 yet you refuse to accept it even those the Authors has repeatedly shown you that He isn't on that level.

You keep going back to the old argument of... "Well, in 2016 he said this" it doesn't matter what he said in 2016. Because in 2020 he said this, which Retconns what he said in 2016.

Momoshiki has no feats on planet level, on screen we've never seen him do anything past country level to Continental level.

We have statements from the Authors+On screen feats which disproves Momoshiki being anything close to planet level.

So.. Again I accept your Concession.

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MyGod000

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@azureus said:
@mygod000 said:

@azureus:

a normal Juubi Dama may not kill Naruto...but a Super Juubi Dama would definitely kill Naruto.

If Naruto tried to no sell it without protection, maybe. Juubito's TSB shield and the Four Crimson Ray Barrier ate 4 Supercharged Juubi Damas, and remained unscathed. Naruto's Six Paths Bijuu Avatar scales above them by feats.

So I think Naruto can outright no sell it if he has constructs to protect himself further.

Umm...Obito's Juubi is significantly Weaker than Madara's.

The Super Charged Juubi Damas Obito's TSB tanked is from an Evolved final form Juubi.

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This super Juubi Dama is about the same size as Momoshiki's TBB.

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as you can see the size compared to the 8 tails.

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Like I said that is from a weaker Form of the Juubi then what Obito Tanked with TSB.

as I said that attack from the Juubi had to be Teleported out to the middle of the sea.

God Tree can Spam Many Super Juubi Damas at once.

Naruto was knocked out at full power by just one of them not four.

there is a huge difference in size in power from the incomplete 2nd form Juubi Obito had and the final forms of the Juubi.

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the 2nd form Juubi could barely control a Juubi Dama the size of it head.

the 3rd form Juubi could Super Charge a super Juubi Dama the size of it's entire Body.

final form can spam 4 of those Super Juubi Damas at once.

Now, Add in the fact that the Juubi Madara had is far greater than the Juubi Obito had and it clearly a stomp here in favor of the team.

Anyone of them can literally summon the final form Juubi to spam 4 super Juubi dama.

Madara's Juubi>>>Obito's Juubi.

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@mattyboi said:

Naruto blitzes and one shots twice.