idk what feats Warlock has in recent years or what his status is but if you are going by canon and Warlock's increase in power with each incarnation his current one should be easily above any herald level type character. Even going back like two incarnations he was at around herald level. He should be closer to Thanos level then Orion currently if written close to correctly.
@jaggernutt: Surfer is planet buster, casual one, Superman at full power is moon buster by feats( assuming we are talking about post-crisis one), moon busting requires 3000 times less energy than planet busting, meaning strongest Supermans attack is 3000 times weaker than Surfers casual blast, not to mention all kinds of haxses that he has like black hole creation, we know how strong black hole is, or TP so how are they in the same tier?Maybe in physical strength or speed(you can argue Clark uses his speed better in combat) but in power or durability? They are not even close, Clark is prety much average fodder to non-jobbing Surfer
I argue same tier group in terms of Supermans strength and invulnerability. We have no idea if Silver Surfer can destroy moons using pure strength alone. But we have seen Superman do it using purely physicals. And Superman is clearly more adept at using combat speed in close quarters combat. That should place them in a similar tier but for different reasons.
I suppose you have your reasons for that conclusion. But I will say your opinion is in the minority if you believe Superman defeats Silver surfer.
Does not matter in the least, since this forum wanks Silver Surfer above what the writers and comics even intended. Superman is absolutely more durable, it's hardly debatable.
@jaggernutt: See what is a problem with that, MCU Captain America and MCU SW have similar strength and speed , but are they in the same tier? Hell no, Wandas TK is so strong that she would atomize Cap literally with a gesture, Surfer energy projection is enaguh to one-shot Clark, he can drain him, he can use black hole against him, he has dozens of ways to easily stomp him like fodder which puts him in difirnet tier, and Surfer durabiltiy feats are far better than Clarks( tanking Supernovas at close range, lets not forget that Supernova fodderized Superman and he was like lightyears( exaggeration, he was very far from it ) away from it, no selling planet busting attacks, he is far more durable in fact Clark cannot put him down, moon busting strength is not enaguh, but you can argue that strength and speed is comperable( with Cark being better at using his speed but he is not geting blitzed, he can react to Clark just fine ) but i would still argue that Surfer is stronger, but Surfer is overall more durable and undeniably far more powerful which is why he would fodderize Superman in the fight, so that is why i say that they are not in the same tier as characters
@jaggernutt: if one is casual planet buster and another one is moon level at his full power then they are not in the same tier, the only thing in which they are in the same tier is strength and speed, Surfer is far more durable and far more powerful, but if you mean only in terms of strength and speed then i can see your point
In terms of purely strength and combat speed Superman may be in a higher tier. In terms of energy projection and matter manipulation Surfer is in a higher tier. Superman has shown planetary strength before.
@jaggernutt: Surfer definitely has some strength feats comperable or superior to Supermans best, like throwing things out of the black hole, for example, while Clark may have an edge in combat speed its prety close, while Surfer is far more durable, that and his energy projection and all other kinds of HAX puts him tier or two above Clark
Superman has shown planetary strength before
What do you mean by planetary? Planet shaking? Pre core breach Hulk can easily do that as well so that is not really that impresive and i am prety sure he has no planet busting ones, moon busting his his limit by consistent feats
Planetary as in I've seen Superman push the earth before in a comic. And N52 has bench pressed the weight of the earth for 5 days. That is most certainly herald tier. I'm not sure why you bring up the Hulk? The Hulk is herald tier in his own right as well.
If Superman is = to more less in strength or speed then he is also herald tier in terms of physicals. It doesn't matter whether or not Surfer has a wider variety of powers. That just means he is more versatile than Superman. Not in a higher tier.
Pre-Flashpoint Lobo destroyed planets on different occasions while pre-Flashpoint Superman never did a single one. Is he on a higher tier than Superman?
@jaggernutt: That is what i disagree with, fact that Surfer can destroy planets casually proves that he is far more powerful than Superman which puts him in another tier, Superman is low tier Herald
--This statement above is what I was saying all along. Superman is indeed herald tier.--
the highest order, Odin can destroy galaxy with his blasts, he did not do it with a punch, that menas he is in difirnet tier than Superman and Darksied, not just more versatile, but far more powerful as well, same is with Surfer( he is far weaker than Odin but the point is same) that is my entire point, but yes i agree that their strength is comperable and so is their speed
Superman no-sold Krypton exploding, while he was weakened under a red sun. Krypton dwarfs Jupiter in size.
Nosells black holes (Silver Surfer consistently struggles with black holes)
He tanked the shockwave of a supernova that was 50x larger than one of the biggest supernovas ever recorded. While weakened by red solar radiation...
Tanks being in the middle of New Genesis and Apokolips smashing into each other like a sandwich. Each of those planets is so big that earth would "barely displace a small lake", which makes the planet the size of a star.
Those are a few of his quantifiable raw durability feats that blow Surfer's out of the water. If we go by scaling, it gets ugly. Superman is like Juggernaut, he tanks everything, trying to compare durability feats is futile because he's bound to win.
@hulk_like_fire: Superman is more of a match for WWHulk physically, Surfer isn't on their level in actual fights and is below Thor and Firelord. Adam Warlock oneshotting Surfer doesn't automatically mean he's above Orion
@hulk_like_fire: Superman is more of a match for WWHulk physically, Surfer isn't on their level in actual fights and is below Thor and Firelord. Adam Warlock oneshotting Surfer doesn't automatically mean he's above Orion
Uh.....?
Surfer went toe to toe with a near WWH level Hulk in Planet Hulk, immediately before that event, and that's consistent with his character. And it should be noted, Surfer was weakened with less access to his powers in that fight. Even afterwards, Hulk took a cheap shot against him and it knocked him down and that was it. He got up immediately afterward and left unphased or damaged. As he has proved a physical superior or match to Savage Hulk on 2 (?) occasions.
So this idea that Surfer isn't physically near Thor/Hulk level is wrong. They might be stronger, I'm not denying that; but it's not significantly so.
@floopay: Um, Hulk was weakened even moreso in that fight, and Surfer cheapshotted Hulk who was merely greeting a friend. Then when Hulk actually got mad he destroyed him in a few hits. Surfer is not even in the same tier as Hulk in strength, there's no comparison.
If Silver Surfer can defeat Orion (which he has in crossovers that DC considers canon), than Adam certainly can. Slaughterhouse if Adam has Infinity Gauntlet.
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