Aang Runs the Gauntlet

@eredin12: The only feats I am ignoring across the board for every character are combustion, and lightning feats. And even then I'm not ignoring them entirely as feats, I'm ignoring the notion that they are hypersonic feats. Zuko getting hit by an arrow isnt an anti feat, its consistent with the other feats he has the put him on level similair to a human, and its consistent with him not being casually hypersonic.

So I'm a hypocrite now? You didnt specify what argument your even talking about but I'm assuming you mean when I said that the elements can in most cases be expected to react like their real world counterparts do. Notice how I said "in most cases."

@eredin12: It isnt headcanon when the feats are contradicted by basic logic, and other feats. If Zuko was casually hypersonic, that would make every human in Avatar superhuman to some extent considering the protagonists dont literally just ignore the fodder they fight. Can we make a Jet v.s Quicksilver thread now because Zuko couldn't dice the guy into a million pieces before he could react?

HOO BOY FOLKS. I'm not credible because I dont think Zuko is some kind of high tier superhuman isnt that something. Tell me, has Zuko or pretty much any other character ever shown any aspect of combat speed that could be construed as hypersonic in an offensive manner? And I dont mean fighting other benders who you scale up to hypersonic based on nothing. Shouldn't someone with hypersonic combat reactions have been able to beat a random earthbender without resorting to firebending? Of course not, I'm sure that Hypersonic earthbenders are just totally disposable and a dime a dozen, and someone with god tier reaction times wouldnt be needed for the war effort.

Ooh, are the fire nations pre-modern machines and mechanisms they use super fantasy machines and mechanisms, that operate fast enough that they can be used against the superhuman populace of the Avatar world? Because if people in Avatar can scale from average Joe Shmoe tier, to hypersonic reaction feats with nothing but some training( a fact which would be plainly evident to anyone that witnessed it.) Then why would they devote so much time, money, and energy to developing complex machinery.

@eredin12: being faster than the shooter applies to Aang too given the distance between him and combustion man especially given Aang was ALREADY IN MOTION when he blocked the explosion.

And considering korra also has a better explosion timing feat than Aang and still struggled with peak humans spider man is still a major threat. Especially since Aang needs mobility to bend and spider man has fought elementals before

r1 and r2 stops at 7 or 8

R3 he stops at 8 high diff

Doesn't get past Stormbreaker Thor whatsoever.

Stops at Percy. Kid is a beast

@eredin12: my point is Aang doesn’t have better speed. Peter has equal and superior feats and has beaten elementals before while Aang has no experience fighting super humans and can get negged by webbing

@eredin12: dodging lightning. Weaving through through automatic gunfire. Has reflexes 40 times greater than normal humans WITHOUT his spider sense.

Can rip apart steel which Aang can’t.

And again has beaten elemental users before and successfully webbing Aang is an easy win

@eredin12: he has his precognition so mute point.

I was referring to spidey being physically stronger and being able to easily restrain Aang by force once he gets close.

I’ve seen aang’s casual air blast. They’re not city block level and can’t one shot building level characters like zuko.

That’s assuming Aang manages to intercept the webbing.

That’s not a casual attack. And it’s hard to gauge given it’s sand not solid earth or metal getting blown up.

So are all of aang’s attacks. They’ve both successfully tagged characters with comparable or in Spider-Man case superior speed so that’s not a problem

@eredin12: That isnt the kind of output his casual blasts produce. Even so that feat is not particularly impressive, and calling it multi city block level is blowing it way out of proportion. He isnt blowing solid rock into pieces, he blew a large cloud of sand into the air. Making that attack somewhere in the range of a powerful sandstorm, not a high powered explosive.

7 or8

@eredin12: no you attributed his lightning timing to precognition. I’ve pointed out how precognition requires sufficient movement speed to use.

Not to mention lightning blast in avatar are telegraphed.

As for speed better than aang’s he’s tagged speedsters, dodged lasers, and outpaced opponents with his powers.

Not getting past the Clawman

@eredin12: This is my problem with your arguments Eredin, you take single high end feats from these characters, then stretch them to their highest possible expression in terms of power with faulty logic; before attempting to present those feats as the characters baseline when numerous other feats and scenarios in the show suggest the exact opposite being true, unless you do ludicrous mental gymnastics, and scaling on the part of the entire fictional world to compensate. You're proporting that Aang can output multi city level block blasts of air casually based on his ability to displace large amounts of sand quickly. If Aang had that kind of casual destructive output how would he be threatened by the Fire Navy? Gale force winds that strong could capsize ships extremely casually, let alone the Fire Nations airships. He should've been able to successfully defeat Ozais fleet with just Airbending with that much power at his disposal.

8

@eredin12: No m8 it wouldnt be good feats for the ships. If the ships tanked Aangs attack, we would have to decide what would be more likely. One, the ships and water around them are defying the laws of physics. Two, Aang doesnt have that high of casual power output, as suggested by numerous other feats of his, and the showing is likely an outlier caused by the writers prioritizing cool visuals, and dramatic story moments over consistent power presentation. This is all suggesting we accept your "scientific claims". You're willing to use the visual appearance of an explosion to determine its power but not the collateral damage it causes, because the two are contradictory. By my estimation collateral damage is a better indicator to go off of over pure appearance because screenwriters, and animators dont have doctorates in physics to keep things consistent. If an explosion doesnt have enough force to send a 12 year old boy through a roof more than likely made out of thatch, and clay tiles, then calling it a building level explosion is dubious at best, and outright disingenuous as worst. Can the lack of visuals be used as an indicator of power? Because in order for Toph to get even remotely close to hitting any high tier character that scales to Zuko or Aang, her rocks need to be traveling at high hypersonic speeds. If they were, why dont the animators visually convey the air pressure resulting from them, or why doesnt the sound design team include sonic booms to accompany them. Why are there never any indications( in the animation or otherwise) whatsoever of the ludicrous speed discrepancies that should exist between certain characters?

You see, while we dont have a scene of a Fire Navy ship resisting a wind blast from Aang, what we do have are multiple instances in the show where he faces multiple Fire Navy ships, and doesnt outright defeat them, instead struggling, and at times being bested by the presence of them. In the siege of the north he expends great effort to disable a few of them in ways that are not instantly capsizing them with airbending, before remarking that he is overwhelmed, and is unable to defeat their numbers. This should be heavily contradicted by Aangs casual ability to produce multi city level aoe burst of air which would render even the most impressive fleet of ships useless. One would then naturally come to the conclusion that Aang doesnt have the power to casually defeat a fleet of ships with one element.

Question, how is Zuko getting between Katara, and the lightning a combat speed feat? It's my understanding that combat speed usually refers to the speed one can output attacks, react to attacks, dodge, and the like. What Zuko did was running, I'm sorry but there isnt some arbitrary "combat speed only happens in short bursts" rule that universally covers all fictional universes that allows for the rationalization that in incredibly quick bursts Zuko can rapidly move his legs forward, and backward in a running motion multiple times before lighting can strike, but he somehow cant run at those speeds in any other scenarios.

Also please list me the dozens of speed feats I'm ignoring. So far you've only mentioned Aangs explosion feat, and Zukos lightning feat. You've mentioned in passing other people reacting to lightning bending, and combustion man but you havent elaborated on them or made an argument with them, so it cant be considered ignoring. I also highly doubt there are multiple dozen spead feats you can list at the hypersonic tier that dont rely on scaling; if there were I find it hard to believe you havent shown them, but by all means I encourage you to prove me wrong

@eredin12: My posts have been plenty long and dense before this one, you didnt have a problem with it then. You even told me to put all of my arguments into one post but now it's tldr? K

@no_one_expects_the_silver_surf: Hahaha, you hit the nail on the head. Nice destruction

Lmao. Emphasis on the all of that.

OT: Still Spidey.

@eredin12: that’s not Peter. That’s doc ock in his body. Either way precognition only amps reaction speed so Spider-Man still has faster reflexes and comparable movement speed.

R1: Stops at 5 or 6

R2: Hard Stop at 6

R3: Could stop at 7, definitely stops at R8

@eredin12: glad to put the speed argument to rest and I agree on Aang being more versatile but what does base Aang have in his arsenal that can one shot Peter?

And I still stand by experience being in Peter’s favor and having a potential easy win condition in immobilizing Aang with webbing

@edgelord91: Eredin will suggest that Aang will be able to both one shot, and circumvent Peter's webbing with his casual multi city block level aoe airbending blasts, that he forgets he can use in pretty much every single scenario.

@eredin12: that’s entirely dependent on Aang using an AOE attack to begin with. Which he doesn’t in character. That was him venting his rage about appa. Plus Aang’s not stupid enough to just spam the same move knowing Peter will eventually wise up and either

1- stop him preemptively

2- attack immediately after

@eredin12: that’s my point. It’s just an air blast pointed down INTO SAND so the actual AOE isn’t much bigger than Aang himself.

And as previously stated he’s not going to be able to to spam it against Peter

Can stop at Percy Jackson. Curbstomps the shit out of Spider-Man.

@eredin12: Those blasts arent instant. Each one has a clear windup as he executes the move. The door busting blast has a larger windup, and the desert blast required him to jump up, and slam down in anger. There are clear moments of vulnerability for Pete to observe, he has a lot of experience with extremely talented martial artists, which is what most benders utilize their power through. Alongside his pre-cog I dont see him having a problem avoiding Aang long enough to exploit an opportunity. And it only takes one.

@eredin12: neither of those is aoe and are dependent on his staff. Though it’s an excellent spacer counter so Peter with have to get close to win. Nice argument.

@eredin12: what exactly does Aang have in his arsenal that can one shot Peter? Peak humans get close to Aang all the time not even in question.

Aang has been KO by wall level force so I’m pretty sure durability is in Peter’s favor