8th day juggernaut vs hp doomsday

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P00TY

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@20damon: Agreed. Even though it was short. You can tell they felt each blow.

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pipxeroth

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@20damon:

Neither of us can prove it but it's on you to prove that what the character stated was about to happen was a lie. In either case, Juggernaut was lying in a heap, helpless after getting stomped by War.

Lol what? So every time Juggernaut says nobody can defeat him it's legit now? Dude...

And Juggernaut got up completely fine after Hulk left.

@p00ty Seriously, you're not even reading my posts. I've already addressed every single scan that you just posted as if it actually means something.

Before i post scans..... In what comic is it stated that Juggs is vulnerable to magic based beings or items?

Well apart from the fact that it's clearly been able to affect him in situations such as Classic Thor depowering his force field, Shatterstar harming him, D'Spayre draining him, and so on, it was also mentioned as early as The Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe Deluxe Edition #6

No Caption Provided

So I'll say it again, the exemplars all have magical based powers depending on what they embody, Conquest is the embodiment of combat, and as such she has magical based attacks. Either way, we can agree to disagree on this since it doesn't really bear any relevance to the fight unless you think Doomsday is all of a sudden going to adapt pressure point detection and martial arts.

Captain Universe threw him to earth. If Captain Universe mentioned that he probed his mind, ripped his helmet and threw him to Earth... Why wouldn't he say that he mind r**pe him also?

Except he explicitly stated he was probing his mind to find his weakness, but the helmet was interfering so he destroyed it with the uni power. Why would he do that if he wasn't then going to probe his mind to exploit a weakness, like I don't know... turning his force field that makes him borderline immune to harm off? Seriously, you're making too many assumptions with no basis behind them.

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20damon

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#53  Edited By 20damon

@20damon:

Neither of us can prove it but it's on you to prove that what the character stated was about to happen was a lie. In either case, Juggernaut was lying in a heap, helpless after getting stomped by War.

Lol what? So every time Juggernaut says nobody can defeat him it's legit now? Dude...

And Juggernaut got up completely fine after Hulk left.

Changes nothing about him lying there helpless at War's mercy. You're saying WarHulk might not have intended to kill him. I'm saying it doesn't matter. what matters is that Juggs -was- lying there helpless at his mercy, i doubt it was done to call his bluff.

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pipxeroth

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@20damon said:
@pipxeroth said:

@20damon:

Neither of us can prove it but it's on you to prove that what the character stated was about to happen was a lie. In either case, Juggernaut was lying in a heap, helpless after getting stomped by War.

Lol what? So every time Juggernaut says nobody can defeat him it's legit now? Dude...

And Juggernaut got up completely fine after Hulk left.

Changes nothing about him lying there helpless at War's mercy. You're saying WarHulk might not have intended to kill him. I'm saying it doesn't matter. what matters is that Juggs -was- lying there helpless at his mercy, i doubt it was done to call his bluff.

No, I'm saying there's no evidence that War Hulk could kill him even if he tried. I literally said, assuming his sword could even cut Cain, there's no reason to believe he wouldn't have simply regenerated.

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Deeseeks

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@20damon: you need to understand how the burden of proof works kid

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mr-luxcipher

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Probably Doomsday.

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20damon

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@deeseeks said:

@20damon: you need to understand how the burden of proof works kid

So if a character that is acting out of character says he's going to kill someone and was stopped mid action, it's on ME to prove they were NOT lying instead of the burden of proof being on him to prove that he WAS lying? Odd how that works.

@pipxeroth

Whether he could kill him or not has nothing to do with this really, what does is that Cain was lying defenceless on his back after not only having his bullrush stopped but also being stomped into lying defenceless on his back at War's mercy. Of course i am not denying that there was Hax involved by Apocalypse's tech, but Doomsday has loads of unknown hax at his disposal as well.

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Deeseeks

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@20damon: Yes because it's inconclusive. Characters make statements all the time, it doesn't mean we take them at face value 24/7

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20damon

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#59  Edited By 20damon

@deeseeks said:

@20damon: Yes because it's inconclusive. Characters make statements all the time, it doesn't mean we take them at face value 24/7

Doesn't put the burden on me to prove that the character wasn't lying. He's claiming that War was bluffing, i said the burden of proof was on him to prove he was. There's no burden on me to prove anything, there's nothing that suggests he was even capable of bluffing, much less had any reason to do so. Whether he was capable of actually following up on the threat is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Juggernaut was stomped and was helpless at War's mercy.

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pipxeroth

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@20damon:

Whether he could kill him or not has nothing to do with this really, what does is that Cain was lying defenceless on his back after not only having his bullrush stopped but also being stomped into lying defenceless on his back at War's mercy. Of course i am not denying that there was Hax involved by Apocalypse's tech, but Doomsday has loads of unknown hax at his disposal as well.

Nothing to do with it? Dude, you literally said "War Hulk was going to kill Juggernaut" which is what I was responding to. All War Hulk did was punch Cain into the building then go and put his sword up against his throat. Then as soon as Hulk left, Cain got up completely fine. Honestly the writing in that issue was pretty shoddy - I don't have any problem with a celestial-tech amped Hulk defeating Juggernaut because celestial tech is super hax, but for example in the moment you're talking about Juggernaut is short of breath, which makes no sense which he doesn't need to breathe in the first place and has unlimited stamina, plus it's pretty out of character for him to simply sit there instead of continuing to fight. Clearly it wasn't because he was hurt because he stood up completely fine when Hulk left -

No Caption Provided

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20damon

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@20damon:

Whether he could kill him or not has nothing to do with this really, what does is that Cain was lying defenceless on his back after not only having his bullrush stopped but also being stomped into lying defenceless on his back at War's mercy. Of course i am not denying that there was Hax involved by Apocalypse's tech, but Doomsday has loads of unknown hax at his disposal as well.

Nothing to do with it? Dude, you literally said "War Hulk was going to kill Juggernaut" which is what I was responding to. All War Hulk did was punch Cain into the building then go and put his sword up against his throat. Then as soon as Hulk left, Cain got up completely fine. Honestly the writing in that issue was pretty shoddy - I don't have any problem with a celestial-tech amped Hulk defeating Juggernaut because celestial tech is super hax, but for example in the moment you're talking about Juggernaut is short of breath, which makes no sense which he doesn't need to breathe in the first place and has unlimited stamina, plus it's pretty out of character for him to simply sit there instead of continuing to fight. Clearly it wasn't because he was hurt because he stood up completely fine when Hulk left -

No Caption Provided

Where did i say Juggernaut was short of breath at ANY point? He was -clearly- unable to defend himself at that point because it is INDEED incredibly out of character for him to lie there and do nothing if he could. And standing up and walking away means he wasn't hurt? Ehm, really? How many times have brick characters (Hulk included) stood up and walked away after taking a loss? That's your argument to try and say Juggernaut wasn't hurt? What WAS he doing then, counting on Hulk suddenly realizing he was the good guy? Please. There's even hax involved so i don't get why this is such a matter of pride.

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Deeseeks

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@20damon: But even if Hulk could potentially cut his head off Juggs can regen from it and again it was an inconclusive fight.

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P00TY

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#63  Edited By P00TY

@pipxeroth: I have not made any assumptions. I'm going by what is shown and said. No scan I posted said "Juggs was hurt due to his weakness to magic" or because he was TPed.

Conquest hurt him because of pressure points. Cap Universe said Exactly what he did and NEVER mentioned TP attacks. Hulk simply pounded him into submission. No assumptions needed.

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pipxeroth

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@20damon:

Where did i say Juggernaut was short of breath at ANY point?

He was clearly short of breath in the scan...

No Caption Provided

I'm saying it's an example of the fact that the issue was pretty inconsistent with the rest of Juggernaut's appearances, regardless of the celestial tech. Peter David just can't write Juggernaut.

He was -clearly- unable to defend himself at that point because it is INDEED incredibly out of character for him to lie there and do nothing if he could.

He has unlimited stamina and arguably the best willpower in Marvel... you really think he sat there because he was hurt? Give me a break dude.

And standing up and walking away means he wasn't hurt? Ehm, really? How many times have brick characters (Hulk included) stood up and walked away after taking a loss?

If he was hurt so badly that he was going to lie there while Hulk cut off his head, then no he wouldn't have simply stood up completely fine 30 seconds later and walked off.

That's your argument to try and say Juggernaut wasn't hurt? What WAS he doing then, counting on Hulk suddenly realizing he was the good guy? Please. There's even hax involved so i don't get why this is such a matter of pride.

Holy shit can you please actually read my posts. I'm saying it was incredibly questionable writing that is completely inconsistent with Juggernaut's character. I literally said I have no problem with him losing because of the celestial hax, just that Juggernaut is portrayed very out of character here. Like I said, Peter David can't write Juggernaut for shit.

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APEX_pretador

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@pipxeroth: @20damon:

Wasn't war hulk amped on Celestial level Technology?

Celestials are powerful beings, going from universal to multiversal in power. It is not far-fetched to say that Celestial Technology can damage Juggernaut.

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20damon

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@deeseeks said:

@20damon: But even if Hulk could potentially cut his head off Juggs can regen from it and again it was an inconclusive fight.

Ok, in that case, i can say Hulk never lost a fight. Juggernaut got effortlessly stomped by a Hulk that was amped by tech of unknown power. It's not like there's any shame in that. But if we go by your logic, Hulk has never lost a fight because we don't know how he can actually be killed. Bad logic and only applicable to fights that are under specific conditions. Doomsday would show Juggernaut no hesitation like Hulk did.

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20damon

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#67  Edited By 20damon

@apex_pretador said:

@pipxeroth: @20damon:

Wasn't war hulk amped on Celestial level Technology?

Celestials are powerful beings, going from universal to multiversal in power. It is not far-fetched to say that Celestial Technology can damage Juggernaut.

He was. I made that very clear. It's also why i don't see the reason to get so defensive about the encounter.

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pipxeroth

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@p00ty:

I have not made any assumptions. I'm going by what is shown and said. No scan I posted said "Juggs was hurt due to his weakness to magic" or because he was TPed.

It was never explicitly shown what Captain Universe did to Cain to KO him. You're making the assumption that he simply hit him with enough force to do it, I'm making the assumption that he found Juggernaut's weakness and likely deactivated his force field before throwing him down to Earth. The only difference is, my assumption actually has valid reasoning behind it.

Conquest hurt him because of pressure points.

Doesn't change the fact that her powers are magical in nature.

Cap Universe said Exactly what he did and NEVER mentioned TP attacks.

Yes, he said he was looking for a weakness, and to do that he had to destroy Cain's helmet. So again, do you think he just destroyed the helmet for shits and giggles?

Hulk simply pounded him into submission. No assumptions needed.

Yeah keep repeating yourself, I'm sure eventually it will stop being bad writing if you say it enough times. Oh wait, no it won't.

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Deeseeks

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@20damon: That's a bad fallacy there mate. Obviously War Hulk isn't standard levels of Hulk operation so the comparison here isn't really sound

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pipxeroth

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@20damon said:
@apex_pretador said:

@pipxeroth: @20damon:

Wasn't war hulk amped on Celestial level Technology?

Celestials are powerful beings, going from universal to multiversal in power. It is not far-fetched to say that Celestial Technology can damage Juggernaut.

He was. I made that very clear. It's also why i don't see the reason to get so defensive about the encounter.

Seriously, are my posts invisible or something? How many damn times do I have to say I have no problem with War Hulk winning, but that doesn't change the fact that the way the fight was shown was bad writing.

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20damon

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#71  Edited By 20damon

@deeseeks said:

@20damon: That's a bad fallacy there mate. Obviously War Hulk isn't standard levels of Hulk operation so the comparison here isn't really sound

Obviously he is not. The comparison however is sound enough. Since Hulk has been proven to survive having his head cut off, he's never lost a fight if we were to use that logic. The logic itself is bad.

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P00TY

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@pipxeroth:

With Captain Universe you're adding attacks that were not stated. Captain Universe said what he did. Captain Universe even mentioned he went after drunk drivers but failed to mention he defeated Juggs with TP... Sure

With Conquest you're saying her magic hurt Juggs when it specifically says it was pressure points that hurt him.

With Hulk you ran out of excuses and just scream it's bad writing.

Typical and expected replies.

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Deeseeks

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@20damon: Hulk has lost many fights against Void, Rulk, Zeus, etc tho

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pipxeroth

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@p00ty:

With Captain Universe you're adding attacks that were not stated. Captain Universe said what he did. Captain Universe even mentioned he went after drunk drivers but failed to mention he defeated Juggs with TP... Sure

What do you mean were not stated? He literally says "I tried to probe your mind, to find your weakness, but your helmet was an impediment. So, I reached through its openings with the uni power..." He's very clearly saying that he destroyed the helmet to allow himself to probe Cain's mind for his weakness. Yet for some reason you're assuming he just destroyed the helmet for fun and threw him to Earth.

With Conquest you're saying her magic hurt Juggs when it specifically says it was pressure points that hurt him.

Ok seriously, you're not even reading my posts. Agree to disagree, unless you want to try and argue that Juggernaut's unstoppable momentum is not magical in nature but is done by his strength.

With Hulk you ran out of excuses and just scream it's bad writing.

Again, I like how you think explaining context is excuses. Juggernaut has no sold attacks from stronger characters than Professor Hulk, but you think that Professor Hulk dropping Cain with one shot is good writing? Yeah okay.

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Deeseeks

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@p00ty: Stop making shitty arguments please. K thanks bye.

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20damon

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@deeseeks said:

@20damon: Hulk has lost many fights against Void, Rulk, Zeus, etc tho

Now apply the same logic to those fights as you just did to War vs Juggernaut fight.... did they really win because they ddin't kill Hulk? Because we don't know if heðd have stayed dead. See where i am going with this logic you applied to the Juggernaut fight? (Hulk has lost more times than i can count)

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P00TY

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@pipxeroth: Agree to disagree,

Now that makes sense.

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P00TY

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@deeseeks: Stop making shitty arguments please.

As soon as your mom stops making me sh*tty waffles every morning.

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Deeseeks

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#79  Edited By Deeseeks

@p00ty: Mate, I doubt your balls have even dropped can for my mom to consider it ?. But hey, at least you don't deny your arguments are shit. There's hope for you yet. Somewhere out there, a foster family will adopt a special needs kid.

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Deeseeks

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@p00ty: Yknow what doesn't make sense. Your 2nd grade level arguments getting destroyed consistently. Explain that to me mate.

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P00TY

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@deeseeks: and you didn't deny your mom's waffles are sh!try. Yay for both of us!!

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Deeseeks

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@p00ty: I'm not gonna say yay at your display of anti intellectualism. I mean yes, I do laugh at the special needs victims that God gave us to mock and scorn, but I will not praise it. I'll laugh at it : D

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Deeseeks

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Every time P00ty makes a shit argument (ok yes that happens all the time) a puppy dies. Don't end up like P00ty kids. Put down your mentally handicapped children before they can breed.

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P00TY

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Every time deeseeks(aka some cowards alt account) mom makes me sh!tty waffles in the morning, I make sh!tty arguments. Cause and effect

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Deeseeks

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@p00ty: Aww don't be that way kiddo. Tell ya what,I find you a nice family to take you in and they can home school you on how to properly debate? That sound fair?

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TheLoneRider

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ODIN619360

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#87  Edited By ODIN619360

@p00ty said:

@deeseeks: Stop making shitty arguments please.

As soon as your mom stops making me sh*tty waffles every morning.

Hey I have had his mums waffle a couple of mornings, they are great brah.

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ODIN619360

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@deeseeks said:

@p00ty: Aww don't be that way kiddo. Tell ya what,I find you a nice family to take you in and they can home school you on how to properly debate? That sound fair?

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your the only one come across triggered. And where is this proper debating?

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Greendevil

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Stalemate or 8thday. He was basically Cytorak unleashed!

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#90  Edited By SC  Moderator

Deeseeks is banned now. Thank you for those that flagged him.

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that_comicv_guy

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bump

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deactivated-5bb52f8f25413

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I heavily believe that there's no version of Juggernaut who can beat Doomsday.

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deactivated-60bc436ce52fe

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Juggs.