70% Frieza vs Android Saga Piccolo (Pre Kami Fusion)!!!!

- The Fight is on indestructible empty planet.

- bloodlust is on.

@omri: is this rof freiza

@lejon: no namek saga

bump

@omri: Definitely Piccolo. Did you see what he did to Dr. Gero?

Piccolo wins.

piccolo snaps him in half

@omri: spite thread piccolo stomp

The green guy

Piccolo with ease. Frieza 100% > Dr Gero >> Frieza (50%). And Piccolo owned Gero after having some of his energy drained.

Krillin compared Piccolo's pre fusion power to a Super Saiyan, and Piccolo was stomping Gero even after Gero absorbed a decent chunk of Piccolo's power.

I'd say Piccolo with ease.

just Ask Dr. Gero

@lejon: I wouldn't say this is spite. Frieza at 70% was able to land a good hit on ssj Goku. Piccolo isn't on the level of ssj Namke Goku.

Piccolo is stronger than 50% Frieza at this point though imo and he is more skilled so he wins.

Piccolo stomps after training for the 1st androids he would beat 100% frieza

Mismatch. This piccollo would stomp 10 friezas

@saitonohado: No, not 100%. If he did win it would be because of Frieza getting tired or Piccolo being smart, because at 100% Frieza is stronger.

It is almost flat out stated twice Frieza is stronger than androids 19 and 20. Also Gero might of actually been stronger than Piccolo after absorbing his energy, but piccolo has the abilities to put out short bursts of power.

I think Piccolo could give 100% Frieza alot of trouble at this point honestly if not outright win.

@alextheboss: dude ur gonna have to point out to me where it's almost stated twice that frieza is stronger than the andriods and when krillen didn't mention 19 or 20 I think it's because Goku could beat them as a SS but not the rest as a matter of fact he doesn't mention any of them just that all his new enemies are stronger than frieza

Frieza at 50% probably loses but it will be close.

Piccolo stomps. He's likely SSJ tier at that point (Though he'd lose to either). Hell if you want to reach far enough he and Gohan were sparing with SSJ Goku during their training (shown with the chapter cover).

It'd explain how Piccolo knew that Goku wasn't at his best when fighting Android 19.

wasnt that after the kami-fusion?

it was after the kami-fusion!!

Piccolo

lets make it 70% freiza see if piccolo can still beat him

Here's the scan before Kami fusion. This one's a bit more indirect than I recalled, but more neater scans like the Viz manga scans are bit more accurate in wording/translation.

@saitonohado: I gave the scans. When Gero said he didn't record the fight on Namek Goku said Gero had no chance, implying namek top tiers>>>19 and 20 before absorbing energy

Then later Krillen asked Goku if he was scared of fighting opponents stronger than Frieza, not stronger than 19. Why would Krillen mention anyone other than the strongest person Goku has ever fought in the past? It doesn't make sense from a writing standpoint. That would be like Krillen asking if he was scared of fighting enemies stronger than Ginyu. There would be no reason to ask if someone is afraid of fighting the second strongest person they faced, only the strongest.

@alextheboss: @saitonohado: I gave the scans. When Gero said he didn't record the fight on Namek Goku said Gero had no chance, implying namek top tiers>>>19 and 20 before absorbing energy

Then later Krillen asked Goku if he was scared of fighting opponents stronger than Frieza, not stronger than 19. Why would Krillen mention anyone other than the strongest person Goku has ever fought in the past? It doesn't make sense from a writing standpoint. That would be like Krillen asking if he was scared of fighting enemies stronger than Ginyu. There would be no reason to ask if someone is afraid of fighting the second strongest person they faced, only the strongest.

I understand your point but it's still not really concretekrillen says in the scan u provided are u scared of fight a bunch of new enemies stronger than frieza by which he could have meant all the andriods

And yes Goku basically said they had no chance against him. But frieza had no chance against a weaker Ss Goku this version was stronger than the one on namek

I wish we had a better way to gauge their power

@saitonohado: It's true nothing is concrete however it wouldn't make really make sense to be including the past androids in his statement, because why would he ask Goku if he is scared if he has already fought someone stronger than Frieza. That would be like him saying,are you scared of fighting people stronger than Frieza even though you already have?

Frieza stood a much better chance than 19 did. He actually got some good hits in and he was able to match Goku's kamehameha, but after that his power went down. Also Frieza has moves like his death saucer that can cut through stronger enemies and he can casually blow up planets, which I don't think 19 and 20 can do.

@alextheboss: well krillen says a bunch he could have included 19 & 20 cuz 17,18 & 16 were pretty much right after each other cell did take time to truly appear

Goku has never blown up a planet but we all know he can so we can't assume 19 & 20 can't

Freiza stood a much better chance against a weaker ss Goku this Goku which is stronger than future trunks (the one that fodderized robo frieza) would stomp frieza

Not gonna lie friezas version of the destructo disc is pretty op but piccolo has regen so that's not gonna b a huge problem for him

Idk it's so hard to get a good gauge on there power when frieza came to earth they were all scared so it really depends on what kinda jump in power piccolo got from training with Goku for 2 years

Question do u think robo frieza is > than 100% namek frieza? And do u think king cold is >/=/< than any version of frieza this could help our debate

@saitonohado: Yes, I agree Krillin could of meant that, however it just doesn't make as much sense to ask someone if you are scared of fighting people you already fought.

Also the Goku that fought 19 was weakened by the heart virus and got so weak he couldn't even turn ssj. Nearing the end of that fight he was almost undoubtedly weaker than his Namek counterpart.

19 and 20 don't follow normal ki rules since they are fully robotic. Dr. Gero needed multiple energy blasts to destroy a city.

King Cold is stated to be slightly inferior to Frieza in the Daizenshuu. As for mecha Frieza Gohan said Frieza could get much stronger, so either mecha Frieza was suppressed or he was weaker. If he was suppressed it is unclear if he ever powered up before being killed or if he does power up if he still gets buff.

@alextheboss: Well when goku fought 19 he kinda dominated at first and he seemed like he wasn't serious but once that virus kicked in he was a waste definitely weaker than his namek version but before the virus he was definitely stronger

I can agree with 19 and 20 not following the same rules when it comes to ki control I don't think they had any charge up attacks now that I think about neither did 16,17,18 only cell seem to be able to charge up attacks

well the only facts I can think of is namek or robo freiza and king cold would be no match for any SS trunks literally one shot both of them and we know when he saw goku go ss he states were exactly the same so it's safe to assume goku could have 1 shotted them as well and I think Ss vegeta was = or slightly > over the goku that fought 19 and he toyed with him too. So for me I think I could place piccolo at or near namek Ss goku (keep in mind the goku that arrived on earth must have had a massive zenkai boost) I'm gonna re watch part of that arc so for now how bout we agree to disagree :-)

@saitonohado: Mecha Frieza was hit by a weapon in a surprise attack, possibly not even at full power. It's not really a fare comparison.

Piccolo still.

He can fight 100% freeza and has a decent chance of winning , especially if he is able to drag it for long.

@alextheboss: well trunks did tell him to hit him with everything he's got then tried his death ball thing which did nothing

@alextheboss: @saitonohado:

There is nothing to suggest that mecha freeza is stronger than "100%" Freeza, except his own words. Everything else indicates otherwise.

I did a huge post at that topic a while ago, proving why is organic freeza superior to Mecha freeza in every way.

@saitonohado: That was filler. In the manga all he did was shoot one ki blast at Trunks and get surprised attacked.

@apex_pretador: That would make sense considering in Resurrection F Sorbet considered it a good thing they brought him back without robot parts.

and he thought that Super Saiyan was done.

Seems like getting his half head blown away did affect his intelligence.

Piccolo would beat Gero is straight up fight.. but I think Gero could've done better had the other guy not interfered.

@cpt_nice: I believe Picollo Per Fusion is around SSJ Goku Namek Saga so he wins by a little

@alextheboss: ok I'm not sure if this was in the manga or not but in the anime vegeta tells piccolo right before he fights 20 the only thing I'm worried about is he draining anymore of your energy which leads me to believe that if 20 succeeded in draining any more energy he might b a threat to vegeta granted I don't know how much more energy could b a lil more or could b all of it

Piccolo wins this.

Piccolo mid diff.

@alextheboss said:

@saitonohado: No, not 100%. If he did win it would be because of Frieza getting tired or Piccolo being smart, because at 100% Frieza is stronger.

It is almost flat out stated twice Frieza is stronger than androids 19 and 20. Also Gero might of actually been stronger than Piccolo after absorbing his energy, but piccolo has the abilities to put out short bursts of power.

1. Goku never said that the androids didn't stand a chance against Namek tier fighters, all he said was that by not recording the fights in Namek they missed the most important thing that happened in Namek which was the Super Saiyan transformation. Piccolo even says as much in the very next page.

2. Dr. Gero was surprised that Piccolo was stronger than him despite absorbing his energy. Piccolo saying that he could increase his power in bursts just means that he could quickly and explosively increase his energy whenever he wants to. When Gero absorbed his energy Piccolo wasn't anywhere near full power hence why it was "nothing to fret over". Basically Gero didn't drain a lot of Piccolo's total energy, he drain just the amount that Piccolo was putting out at the time. Hell even Gero said that Piccolo's power had increased a lot.

@gothamciti said:

@omri said:

@giantmansolos said:

@gothamciti said:

Krillin compared Piccolo's pre fusion power to a Super Saiyan, and Piccolo was stomping Gero even after Gero absorbed a decent chunk of Piccolo's power.

I'd say Piccolo with ease.

wasnt that after the kami-fusion?

it was after the kami-fusion!!

Here's the scan before Kami fusion. This one's a bit more indirect than I recalled, but more neater scans like the Viz manga scans are bit more accurate in wording/translation.

While not Viz some of the cleaner scan pretty much say the same thing.

@dstreet45: I see. Thanks for showing that.

@apex_pretador: Ya, imo using the Trunks mecha Frieza example isn't a good example to show Frieza as being weak. swords also help as shown in the Yajorib fight with one of King Piccolo's children. He was having problems with him, but right when he used his sword he instantly won.

@saitonohado: Well ya, the more energy 20 absorbs the closer he would get to Vegeta and the harder it would be to fight him. Vegeta knows he would still win, but he would rather not have the trouble of 20 being more annoying to him. Vegeta could casually one shot 20 if he wanted to. I don't see him doing that to Frieza if Frieza was fully prepared for it at 100%. Vegeta could one shot Frieza at this point, but not casually imo.

@dstreet45:

1. Goku never said that the androids didn't stand a chance against Namek tier fighters, all he said was that by not recording the fights in Namek they missed the most important thing that happened in Namek which was the Super Saiyan transformation. Piccolo even says as much in the very next page.

He said, "This fight is as good as over". You know what that means right?

2. Dr. Gero was surprised that Piccolo was stronger than him despite absorbing his energy. Piccolo saying that he could increase his power in bursts just means that he could quickly and explosively increase his energy whenever he wants to. When Gero absorbed his energy Piccolo wasn't anywhere near full power hence why it was "nothing to fret over". Basically Gero didn't drain a lot of Piccolo's total energy, he drain just the amount that Piccolo was putting out at the time. Hell even Gero said that Piccolo's power had increased a lot.

It's unclear what Piccolo meant. It may mean that he just increases his power level for short periods of time to increase his strength like in the Raditz fight, or maybe he is suppressed and he is just bringing out his full power when he attacks.

Krillin was just surprised how strong Piccolo was for not being a ssj. That doesn't mean he is ssj level. If a woman was really strong you could say, wow she is strong for not being a man, but that doesn't mean she is as strong as a man.

@alextheboss:

1. Because Goku had Super Saiyan. That's why the fight was as good as over. Hence why Piccolo said "Not knowing about the Super Saiyan transformation will prove fatal to you."

2. That's similar but not the same. Back in the Raditz fight Goku and Piccolo were concentrating energy in one point for a short period of time. Piccolo just said that he could increase his energy in bursts kinda like when they power up mid battle. And Piccolo was definitely suppressed as he didn't even take of his weights until the fight had started.

3. Yeah she would be depending on the situation. Either way it's supported by Gero saying "To think that even Piccolo had increased his power this much."

@dstreet45:

1. Yes that's what I meant, Namek top tiers are 100% final form Frieza and ssj Goku.

Androids pre absorption<<< sick ssj Goku (end of fight)<Androids post absorption<Piccolo<Frieza 100%<ssj Goku Namek=sick ssj Goku (start of fight)<healthy ssj Goku android saga

2. Piccolo probably concentrated his ki into his arm when he cut Gero's arm off. I also believe it is stated by Goku when fighting the Ginyu force his power level increases in short bursts when fighting.

3. The last time Gero recorded Piccolo's power level it was around 3,000. Obviously he would be surprised when it is like 80 million or so, lol. I find it extremely hard to believe that Piccolo could go from below 3rd form Frieza to far surpass 100% Final form Frieza in a couple years with no power up. If Gero was stronger than Frieza, then Piccolo would have to be waaaay stronger since he stomped Gero. I could see an argument of Piccolo being stronger than Frieza even though I don't think so, but I really doubt the androids are, especially before absorbing energy.