616 Iron Man vs DCEU Team

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Chungus5555

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616 Iron Man
616 Iron Man

vs

The Justice League, Zod, Faora, Nam-Ek, Doomsday
The Justice League, Zod, Faora, Nam-Ek, Doomsday

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The team distracts Tony in order for Diana to get an opening and cut him in half.

So team stomps.

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deactivated-61c56dceb595f

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Tony one-shots. Mismatch.

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Koose104

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Tony absolutely destroys the team.

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Prasinus_Terra

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Tony farts in their general direction and they all die.

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Honestly Superman, Doomsday, and Zod might be able to solo.

Clark was capable of moving tectonic plates, and Zod and DD should scale to that considering they have evenly fought, if not, overhwelmed, him before.

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Koose104

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Koose104

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@nightrider1000: we have absolutely no context behind it. All the information we have is from a newspaper that appears for a couple of seconds.

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@koose104 said:

@nightrider1000: we have absolutely no context behind it. All the information we have is from a newspaper that appears for a couple of seconds.

Then prove it had context behind it. The feat is legit until there is proof of it having context behind it.

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Divyansh13

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@koose104 said:

@nightrider1000: we have absolutely no context behind it. All the information we have is from a newspaper that appears for a couple of seconds.

Then prove it had context behind it. The feat is legit until there is context behind it.

Pass that cocaine already

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DatStupidGuy

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#14  Edited By DatStupidGuy
@nightrider1000 said:
@koose104 said:

@nightrider1000: we have absolutely no context behind it. All the information we have is from a newspaper that appears for a couple of seconds.

Then prove it had context behind it. The feat is legit until there is context behind it.

Pretty sure the burden of proof is on you

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@datstupidguy said:
@nightrider1000 said:
@koose104 said:

@nightrider1000: we have absolutely no context behind it. All the information we have is from a newspaper that appears for a couple of seconds.

Then prove it had context behind it. The feat is legit until there is context behind it.

Pretty sure the burden of proof is on you

It isn't actually since he was the one that made the claim that there being no context behind the feat. He made that claim. I am the one who questioned it. He has to prove it.

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Divyansh13

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@datstupidguy said:
@nightrider1000 said:
@koose104 said:

@nightrider1000: we have absolutely no context behind it. All the information we have is from a newspaper that appears for a couple of seconds.

Then prove it had context behind it. The feat is legit until there is context behind it.

Pretty sure the burden of proof is on you

It isn't actually since he was the one that made the claim that there being no context behind the feat. He made that claim. I am the one who questioned it. He has to prove it.

Pretty sure it's an outlier so no need for him to prove it

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@nightrider1000 said:
@datstupidguy said:
@nightrider1000 said:
@koose104 said:

@nightrider1000: we have absolutely no context behind it. All the information we have is from a newspaper that appears for a couple of seconds.

Then prove it had context behind it. The feat is legit until there is context behind it.

Pretty sure the burden of proof is on you

It isn't actually since he was the one that made the claim that there being no context behind the feat. He made that claim. I am the one who questioned it. He has to prove it.

Pretty sure it's an outlier so no need for him to prove it

And I questioned him on why its an outlier, so he has to prove that.

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Divyansh13

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And I questioned him on why its an outlier, so he has to prove that.

Because consistently supes has shown city level feats, Snyder cut supes is certainly above any other supes and he is barely above city+ level.

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Divyansh13

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@nightrider1000 said:

And I questioned him on why its an outlier, so he has to prove that.

Because consistently supes has shown city level feats, Snyder cut supes is certainly above any other supes and he is barely above city+ level.

Correction: Snyder supes is above any other DCEU superman

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@divyansh13: And what makes him only city level in your eyes?

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DatStupidGuy

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@nightrider1000:

It isn't actually since he was the one that made the claim that is there being no context behind the feat. He made that claim. I am the one who questioned it. He has to prove it.

Not really, you made the claim that Superman moved tectonic plates in the first place and got rightfully rebuked that it was feat with no context behind it. Instead of actually justifying your claim you instead demand Koose to justify the opposite of it. You're shifting the burden of proof.

Prove that an off screen, no context feat from a newspaper clipping is legitimate.

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@datstupidguy: And I already debunked that saying there being no context behind the feat means the feat is legit. Koose needs to prove that the tectonic plate feat had context behind it, and guess what, he can't find it. Unless the newspaper said "Superman and friends moved tectonic plates", then the feat is legit.

You can't prove that Superman had assistance or was amped when moving the tectonic plates, so you can't ask me to prove there being context behind the feat when that's your job.

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Koose104

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@nightrider1000: when has DCEU Superman ever shown that level of strength in the entire DCEU?

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@koose104: Quantity doesn't always means quality. Just because it happened once doesn't mean its an outlier.

Going by that logic, Iron Man's modern armors would only be building level since they've only performed building level feats. Tony's older armors from like the 1960s busted mountains, but his modern armors from the 2000s and onward never busted anything above building level.

Or another example is Naruto tanking Toneri's GWRE that sliced the moon. That could be considered an outlier since it only happened once.

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Koose104

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@nightrider1000: DCEU Superman has appeared in 3 movies. Based off of all of his feats he can not shift a tectonic plate.

I’d take all of his consistent feats over a vague newspaper.

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takenstew22

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#26  Edited By takenstew22  Moderator

Can't believe people are still wanking DCEU Clark by holding on to that newspaper title that has no other context behind it.

Why is it so damn hard for MCU and DCEU fans to just accept that their characters are city level fodder?

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@koose104: And going by that logic, Iron Man has appeared in thousands of comic books, and if we focus on his modern armors and their appearances, then he's only building level consistently since they've never busted anything above a building.

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Darkthunder

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Honestly Superman, Doomsday, and Zod might be able to solo.

Clark was capable of moving tectonic plates, and Zod and DD should scale to that considering they have evenly fought, if not, overhwelmed, him before.

quantify how much force it requires. Which tectonic plate was it? How long did he take? How much energy did it take? Did he fully exert himself?

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@nightrider1000 said:

@koose104: And going by that logic, Iron Man has appeared in thousands of comic books, and if we focus on his modern armors and their appearances, then he's only building level consistently since they've never busted anything above a building.

That's when scaling comes into play. Just because Iron Man's modern armors never shown the quantifiable feats his classic armors have done, that doesn't mean they're building level as you say. So in order to determine how strong they are, we focus on who he has faced off.

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BladeOfFury

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@datstupidguy: What kind of context could you imagine that invalidates the showing?

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rajjarsalt

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#33  Edited By rajjarsalt

@divyansh13: @nightrider1000:

DCEU Superman, for a guy who has appeared 3 times, is not consistently city level nor anything above that.

Clark is scared of a falling building, runs, yet gets hurt by some falling debris inside of it

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Clark is rekt by a fodder tier explosion.

"Cause I really like being alive/I take it back. I wanna die."- Clark Kent

Clark feels bullets like 60mph baseballs

Clark is knocked out by a single bullet.

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Clark is pinned by the gravity that existed on Krypton and exhausts his powers fighting it back.

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Clark is knocked out by an oil derrick.

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Clark is knocked out by impacts that barely damage the street.

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Clark is hurt by a falling car and an impact that barely damages the street.

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Clark is hurt by a Kryptonian blast and the impact is tanked by a truck. Blasts tanked by plane engines despite their fuel getting ignited, and multiple were needed to bust a door

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Clark is hurt by a punch that barely shifts some tables

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Clark is hurt by an punch that's no-selled by a restaurant floor.

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Clark is hurt by hits that barely damage the street, and tries to avoid/run away from them

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Clark's slam is no-selled by the street

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Clark's bullrush barely damages the street

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Clark is scared of a ground pound that is tanked by an already damaged part of the street.

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Clark can't physically break out of a push that is no-selled by an already damaged part of the street.

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Clark is knocked out by a train car in freefall

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Clark is hurt by going through a gas tank

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Clark's flight-assisted headbutt barely damages the memorial pavement

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Clark's pimp slap tanked by a peak human and a police car

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Clark's vice grip tanked by a peak human for nearly a whole minute

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Clark's shoulder check no-selled by gravestones

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Clark's 1 arm pull barely damages 1 stair

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Clark's 2 arm pull barely damages 2 stairs

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Clark's jump stomp is tanked by memorial pavement

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Clark is knocked out after being thrown through a bunch of windows

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Clark is hurt by a metal bar that, while significantly weakened by his heat vision, no-sells the impact

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Doomsday, a Zod amped beyond his biological limits, expands with more force and damage than Clark ever hit Zod with, and is no-selled by extremely damaged dirt in his re-entry crater

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Clark is knocked out by Doomsday's double-handed slam, which is either barely damaged or no-sold by pavement

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Doomsday is also hurt more by 10 kg tnt missiles/bullets than Clark's flying punches, bullrushes, and cheapshots.

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Speaking of cheapshots, Clark's orbital bullrush barely damages the roof of an already weakened building

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Nuclear Doomsday forces Clark and Diana back from far away while failing to kill a peak human and a regular human

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Nuclear Doomsday's punch is tanked by this very same extremely damaged dirt.

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his bullrush barely damages some debris,

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His slam(embeds his arm into the blade, connects with the ground after) is no-selled by extremely damaged pavement.

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And it's not like the sword could do much either. He fled her attack earlier, and it barely damaged the ground.

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How does Clark respond to such power? Well...

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Nuclear Doomsday while amped with Clark/Diana's hits can't break free of a lasso pull that is held tight and no-selled by a stone block.

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Chungus5555

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#34  Edited By Chungus5555

lol.

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rajjarsalt

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#35  Edited By rajjarsalt
@bladeoffury said:

@datstupidguy: What kind of context could you imagine that invalidates the showing?

The manner in which it was done. To stop the earthquake, to shift the plate, he needs to displace the rock creating friction in the plate boundary.

People want to portray this feat like it is less like Reeve Superman displacing rocks to shore up the San Andreas fault line to stop an earthquake and more like "DCEU Superman pushed a tectonic plate." But there are no warrants on why the latter is a truer explanation, or true at all, for that matter.

Problem is Snyder doesn't think DCEU Superman can lift a continent, and Snyder's definition of continent is pretty small, considering he thought that small island in Superman Returns was a continent.

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rajjarsalt

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On topic, Iron Man stomps. You need MCU characters to lay him low.

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rajjarsalt

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#37  Edited By rajjarsalt
@nightrider1000 said:

@koose104: And going by that logic, Iron Man has appeared in thousands of comic books, and if we focus on his modern armors and their appearances, then he's only building level consistently since they've never busted anything above a building.

The difference is Clark has no feats on the level of the newspaper paper feat. His best feat is lifting a small apartment building.

Iron Man atleast has feats like sending Terrax out of the solar system in a relatively short period of time, taking the explosion of Sol's Hammer, taking hits from Magneto empowered by innumerable planets that he compared to being bludgeoned by a sun, etc.

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BladeOfFury

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@rajjarsalt: It's common knowledge how massive a continent is, so he wasn't referring to that small island

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rajjarsalt

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#39  Edited By rajjarsalt
@bladeoffury said:

@rajjarsalt: It's common knowledge how massive a continent is, so he wasn't referring to that small island

But he was referring to that feat prior to that, no?

Not to mention, DCEU Earth is a small planet, as proven by moi.

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BladeOfFury

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@rajjarsalt:

But he was referring to that feat prior to that, no?

Link?

Not to mention, DCEU Earth is a small planet, as proven bymoi.

b8

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Belando

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Imagine compiling and presenting every bad feat a character has to make a case.

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rajjarsalt

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#42  Edited By rajjarsalt
@belando said:

Imagine compiling and presenting every bad feat a character has to make a case.

Imagine framing consistency debating as a bad thing tho

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rajjarsalt

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@rajjarsalt:

But he was referring to that feat prior to that, no?

Link?

Not to mention, DCEU Earth is a small planet, as proven bymoi.

b8

The problem with a character like Superman is that it's just so difficult for readers - and viewers - to relate with a near-indestructible super being. This has frequently plagued comic book writers, although the last time it was addressed (in JMS' critically panned "Grounded" story arc), it did not go down well with fans. Neither did Bryan Singer's almost action-lessSuperman Returnsin 2006. So, how is Zack Snyder planning on dealing with the Kryptonian's power set inMan of Steel?"It's amazing what [Superman] is capable of but [Henry's] a slightly more down to Earth version of the character,"he toldTotal Film Magazine."I don't think he can hold up a continent... Superman has been broken for a little while."Ouch! It sure does sound as if he wasn't a fan of Singer's take on the character either.

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/superman/zack-snyder-and-david-goyer-discuss-man-of-steel-he-cant-hold-up-a-continent-a75772#google_vignette

It's not bait. It's smaller than Krypton - Krypton's new core was a city sized star and it's gravitational binding energy was exceeded by the output of said star. Not to mention Doomsday surface wiping Stryker's island (4 miles wide) being visible on a curvature shot.

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BladeOfFury

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@rajjarsalt: So he's saying that DCEU Clark isn't as powerful as some of the other versions and can't hold up a continent. He doesn't refer to the island feat.

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Belando

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#45  Edited By Belando

@rajjarsalt: You don't think the same could be done with most characters with extensive screen-time?

Some of these are not valid critiques of "fair consistency" at all. Several examples come off as typical Rajj bait to everyone else reading, aside from yourself I'd presume. And I'll clarify! You're pointing towards attacks directed towards characters not having high DC. Several of your 'examples' regarding Doomsday could be said regarding most high-level characters and verses. Where for example Dragon ball comes to mind. We can already know their DC and AP, but when they miss someone and don't cause DC on the previous level, that doesn't negate the established AP and DC of the character.

You do this repeatedly with all the characters. Both Doomsday hitting debris or the ground, Wonder Woman's sword hitting the ground (lol), or Doomsday destroying almost everything around himself, pushing away Diana and Supes, but Batman survives due hiding behind a piece that happens to not be destroyed, which you present as negating or invalidating the feat. None of these examples are valid critiques and either depict a misunderstanding of AP and DC, or bad faith (FROM RAJJ?!).

Edit; after rewatching the final battle in Endgame, specifically Thanos, Thor, and Cap. The exact thing you did with DCEU in the post above could be done to all of those characters in that fight. They're missing the attack barely damaging the terrain, are only tossed a few meters, and all appear in a relative ballpark, etc, but that's obviously not the case. And collecting those instances to pretend like you're making a case would be equally disingenuous.

Also, why are you pretending like the DCEU's version of the earth is smaller than ours? What you've provided above says nothing of the sort.

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rajjarsalt

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@belando said:

@rajjarsalt: You don't think the same could be done with most characters with extensive screen-time?

Some of these are not valid critiques of "fair consistency" at all. Several examples come off as typical Rajj bait to everyone else reading, aside from yourself I'd presume. And I'll clarify! You're pointing towards attacks directed towards characters not having high DC. Several of your 'examples' regarding Doomsday could be said regarding most high-level characters and verses. Where for example Dragon ball comes to mind. We can already know their DC and AP, but when they miss someone and don't cause DC on the previous level, that doesn't negate the established AP and DC of the character.

You do this repeatedly with all the characters. Both Doomsday hitting debris or the ground, Wonder Woman's sword hitting the ground (lol), or Doomsday destroying almost everything around himself, pushing away Diana and Supes, but Batman survives due hiding behind a piece that happens to not be destroyed, which you present as negating or invalidating the feat. None of these examples are valid critiques and either depict a misunderstanding of AP and DC, or bad faith (FROM RAJJ?!).

Edit; after rewatching the final battle in Endgame, specifically Thanos, Thor, and Cap. The exact thing you did with DCEU in the post above could be done to all of those characters in that fight. They're missing the attack barely damaging the terrain, are only tossed a few meters, and all appear in a relative ballpark, etc, but that's obviously not the case. And collecting those instances to pretend like you're making a case would be equally disingenuous.

Also, why are you pretending like the DCEU's version of the earth is smaller than ours? What you've provided above says nothing of the sort.

Bruh where's all this salt coming from? My arguments were a justified response to "Iron Man can't bust a building, anyway DCEU Superman, Zod, and Doomsday are all tectonic plate level"

But it does. If a 4 mile blast appears large on a curvature shot then it is a small planet. Not to mention being smaller than Krypton.

Anyway, if I grant your AP arguments, then Iron Man solos.even easier!

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rajjarsalt

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@rajjarsalt: So he's saying that DCEU Clark isn't as powerful as some of the other versions and can't hold up a continent. He doesn't refer to the island feat.

That's the only feat he could be referring to, given his "broken for a while" timeframe he used to contextualize that.

Unless you have a counter feat?

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IronManFeats

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#48  Edited By IronManFeats

To suggest that DCEU Clark could triumph over 616 Tony Stark is sheer folly. Below are a variety of feats showcasing the overall underrated strength of the Iron Avenger.

Armwrestles with Thor (Avengers Classic #1)

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Knocks out Hulk with a surprise bullrush (Onslaught Reborn #3)

Brings Half-Powered Hercules to his knees (Avengers #393)

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Rocks Hercules (Avengers #163)

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Hercules was so weakened from his fight with Iron Man that he was knocked out by a random electrical wire (Avengers #163)

Kicks down a door which Namor couldn't (Tales of Suspense #80)

Scores a mutual knockout with Silver Surfer (Sub-Mariner 1968: #35)

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Pushes his armor to peak intensity and is able to dent a shield that no-sold Thor (Avengers #159)

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Blasts Terrax out of the solar system (Iron Man 2020: #1)

Hurts an Adaptoid with combined power of Sentry+Luke Cage+Wolverine+Ms.Marvel (New Avengers Annual)

Incinerates Hyrm's leg, who survived a blast that dwarfed mountains and floored Thor the issue prior(Thor 1998: #81)

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Propels himself out of Graviton's gravity field which Wonder Man and Vision were completely immobilized by(Avengers #159)

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KOed Captain Atom so Hawkeye could contain him with a lead arrow (JLA/Avengers #2)

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Stalemates Hal Jordan (Unlimited Access #3)

Rampage (a man wearing armor made of the same alloys that turned Tony into Iron Man) holds his own against Hercules, Angel, Black Widow, and Iceman until his suits power fails, briefly knocking out Hercules with a cheap shot and and smashing Bobby's near-absolute zero cube (The Champions #5)

War Machine has an extended fight with Thor, hurting him with his repulsor blasts and punches and only losing when Rhodey fights off Loki's mind control (Thor #484)

Whiplash wearing an extra layer of Stark Armor restrains Thor (Unbeatable Squirrel Girl II #49)

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The weaker War Machine also had a good fight against Namor (Namor The Sub-Mariner #41)

Cry DCEU stans

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BladeOfFury

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@rajjarsalt: What timeframe do you think "broken for a while" sets? From my understanding Snyder simply believed that some other versions have the ability to lift a continent, possibly due to Reeves pushing the moon, or throwing all nukes into the sun, or Smallville Superman pushing Apocalypse. He wasn't referring to any feat of them actually lifting a continent specifically, because such a feat doesn't exist. He still saw them being on that level, however, and he couldn't say the same about DCEU Clark.

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Belando

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@rajjarsalt: Yeah, I've never really argued in favor of any side in the thread. It was more so directed at a post with tens of either low-end feats or feats presented as low-end. Either way, I understand where it came from now.

The argument regarding the DD-blast appearing with curvature isn't invalid, but it's also likely that the exterior of the blast is dispersing and not nearly as powerful. Hence still having large visuals even if the destruction isn't accurate. If one of these two HAS to be correct, I'd say the latter is a lot more likely than assuming the DCEU earth is smaller than our own based on that incident alone.