616 Daredevil vs CW Squad

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KrleAvenger

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brucerogers

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Daredevil vol 1 #276, during the Acts of Vengeance story line. There is a lot of context though. For starters this was Ultron-13 who was rebuilt by Dr Doom and programmed to be his slave. This caused a lot of internal conflict which caused Ultron to start ripping himself apart out of madness, till he was a half crazy robot with wires jutting out. Daredevil just took advantage of that to take him apart. He even had assistance from Karnak.

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beatboks1

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@beatboks1:Lol I assume you are saying this in a tongue in cheek manner but I will address them nonetheless (just in case someone takes your posts at face value).

Savage is an enhanced who can solo a team of metas with more speed, strength, and durability than DD has a prayer of defeating.

Well then I would love to see what these enhanced metas have actually done in terms of feats rather than just being called enhanced metas. Daredevil has fought and gotten the best of people with legit superhuman combat speed like Karnak, for instance. I can make a list, if need be.

Arrow Ollie has tagged people vastly faster and capable of dodging a lot better than bullets.

I am behind on Arrow by a season, so who has he actually tagged that can not only dodge bullets, but possess the level of awareness and skill that Daredevil does ?. Agility too, for that matter.

He was only kind of tagging Barry who was inexperienced and reckless to the point where he would sometimes be tagged by people with no peak human speed or skill whatsoever. I must have missed his fights against Savage but I would love to see how Savage was an effortless bullet timer and how he compares to Daredevil in other aspects like skill, awareness, agility and so on.

Wait, you haven't seen what Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Firestorm, Atom and the rest of the DC legends can do but you'll casually dismiss Savage as not able to cope with Matt. I rest my case your honor pure fanboyism alert. For one thing Firestorm assisted Barry vs Thawne and was able to do him some damage. Cold and heatwave can rock Barry;s world.

Ollie has tagged Barry four times across 3 seasons it doesn't wash to say he was inexperienced, because he wasn't for all and for one he was bloodlusted. That also means your excuse of being a season behind is kinda limp. OH and he also tagged Thawne who hasn't got the lowballing Barry has, so please the Ollie lowballing is beyond ridiculous.

Ollie wont beat Matt in a straight up one on one, THIS ISN'T A ONE ON ONE. it's a fight against a team where there is a history for three of that team fighting well co-ordinated. The ONLY thing that would give DD a chance here is the fact that the times Merlin and Slade have fought well co-ordinated beside Ollie are either few and far between (Merlin) or very old (Slade), so maybe a lack of teamwork might give Matt a shot at taking a minority.

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KrleAvenger

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@brucerogers: That is so stupid. Ultron is not strong enough to rip himself apart.

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brucerogers

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@krleavenger: Eh he was just essentially ripping out wires and such from his chest, but yeah. It was a very sketchy showing. It was certainly not the same team wrecking version though.

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beatboks1

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@brucerogers:

Just remembered one of the team I'm writing off would take out Matt in a single move. LAUREL has her somic scream device that she uses all tje time. When she dies Matt is screwed.

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brucerogers

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@brucerogers:

Just remembered one of the team I'm writing off would take out Matt in a single move. LAUREL has her somic scream device that she uses all tje time. When she dies Matt is screwed.

Ye, that totally makes her skyfather level GG

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deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f

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I genuinely hate the CW after this thread.

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jashro44

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@beatboks1 said:

@brucerogers:

Just remembered one of the team I'm writing off would take out Matt in a single move. LAUREL has her somic scream device that she uses all tje time. When she dies Matt is screwed.

Ye, that totally makes her skyfather level GG

I don't think the argument is worth mocking to be honest. All beatboks is saying is if Laurel uses her scream it could do some damage to Matt. You don't need to be sky father level to beat daredevil.

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brucerogers

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#112  Edited By brucerogers

@jashro44: The skyfather thing was just meant to be a joke and I thought beatboks was joking too. I certainly didn't mean to mock his argument.

She could certainly damage Matt with it, no doubt, but then the question of whether she gets a chance to use it is also there.

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Elijah_C_Washington

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@nickzambuto: Dude, if DD's a bullet-timer then of course he'd be reacting to bullets before they were fired. Doesn't mean he can't do it afterwards, considering he's done as much on a number of separate occasions. The scan you presented is actually one of them, and recent to boot.

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deactivated-60fae469e992f

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I might do a DD vs Serum Slade after this. This thread has shown some shocking differences in opinions

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brucerogers

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deactivated-60fae469e992f

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brucerogers

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Elijah_C_Washington

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I might do a DD vs Serum Slade after this. This thread has shown some shocking differences in opinions

You should make Daredevil vs shirtless Deathstroke with a knife instead. You have to choose between pre or post-Flashpoint Deathstroke, though.

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deactivated-60fae469e992f

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@decaf_wizard said:

I might do a DD vs Serum Slade after this. This thread has shown some shocking differences in opinions

You should make Daredevil vs shirtless Deathstroke with a knife instead. You have to choose between pre or post-Flashpoint Deathstroke, though.

How about completely nude Deathstroke with a bo staff? Pre-52

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Elijah_C_Washington

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Elijah_C_Washington

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@decaf_wizard: Shirtless post-Flashpoint with a knife is much better.

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jashro44

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I might do a DD vs Serum Slade after this. This thread has shown some shocking differences in opinions

Its been done before.

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depinhom

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Picture is misleading, first of all.

If Slade has Mirakuru, Team Arrow wins, if not, Daredevil.

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deactivated-60fae469e992f

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depinhom

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GhostRavage

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#126  Edited By GhostRavage

@beatboks1:

  1. Savage is an enhanced who can solo a team of metas with more speed, strength, and durability than DD has a prayer of defeating.

Yes and Daredevil fought Venom and beat Mr. Hyde and Absorbing Man. What's the point here?

  1. Arrow Ollie has tagged people vastly faster and capable of dodging a lot better than bullets.

So has Daredevil and kept up with one which is completely capable of blitzing people who does exactly the aforementioned routinely, more times than not.

This whole post comes off as sheer fanboyish because of those two lines. That is unless your saying DD can beat a team that includes the two Hawks, Flash, and Ollie or a team that includes Firestorm, Atom, Hawkman and Hawkgirl, Capt Cold and Heatwave. THAT is who Ollie has tagged and DD isn't anywhere near as fast as him so please stop pulling it.

It's not fanboyism considering Nickz himself posted a video of Vandal Savage flat out failing to do something most regular street levelers would do without much effort. He can beat whoever he wants but he was mocked and humiliated by arrows shot in a sequence whereas Daredevil isn't even exerting himself in deflecting projectiles 13 times faster, much smaller and from a much closer distance, in sequence as well. Daredevil can beat all those guys in 1v1 battles unless you can point out where exactly Vandal soloed all of them at the same time, same goes for Ollie because the way you're phrasing this makes it seem like Ollie beat and tagged all those people at the same time... Regardless, if those were 1v1 battles, i see absolutely no reason why Daredevil wouldn't beat them all as well.

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comicace3

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Well this thread is going places.

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deactivated-5ed476aa4e89a

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CW, with that bloodlust their damage output would kill Matt.

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deactivated-5a89ca5697052

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Daredevil stomps.

Mismatch.

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Blaredevil

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Daredevil doesn't stomp the team, but he does humiliate them more than they deserve.

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PyroFN

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@ithemanwithoutfeari: With Laurels Canary Cry, not a chance of a stomp, especially with someone who relies on his hearing a lot.

https://youtu.be/e20K2vcu-BE

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Elijah_C_Washington

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Daredevil is over Mach 900, I have a calc. Mismatch.

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BOLTOK100

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What exactly is DareDevils resistance to sound based attacks Via Canary cry? I mean it's pretty much guaranteed she is going to use it an when they know it will work Malcom... He is not one to overlook a detail like that ever

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brucerogers

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@boltok100: He has fought through more powerful sonic attacks before and loud noises in general.

Even if Laurel does get a chance to use them, it may rattle him a bit but not hamper him in a way that would change the outcome of this fight.

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TheWatcherKing

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@boltok100: He has fought through more powerful sonic attacks before and loud noises in general.

Even if Laurel does get a chance to use them, it may rattle him a bit but not hamper him in a way that would change the outcome of this fight.

Does he consistently resist sonic attacks? Because I remember one time that murdock fought the sin eater and he was hurt after hearing a gunshot.

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brucerogers

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@watcher5000: Well that was quite a long time ago. Murdock has learned to control and filter out external stimuli better now. In any case, I am not saying he will no sell them, but talking about his ability to fight through the pain and discomfort.

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beatboks1

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@ghostravage: how exactly was Savagr humiliated?? Also show whivh street levellers can vasually simultaineously block the projectile attacksbofntwo assailants grom different angles. Savage wasn't braten in the clip by a sequence of arrows. He vasually blocked every single arrow that ollie fired right up until Speedy picked up a biw and staryed firimg from a different direction meaning he had a second attacker to watch and deflect. Lets just igbore the fact that they didnt beat him. In that story Savage was victorious.

I mean for crying out to kill Savage the DC Legends had to do it in three separate time periods

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@beatboks1:

how exactly was Savagr humiliated?? Also show whivh street levellers can vasually simultaineously block the projectile attacksbofntwo assailants grom different angles. Savage wasn't braten in the clip by a sequence of arrows. He vasually blocked every single arrow that ollie fired right up until Speedy picked up a biw and staryed firimg from a different direction meaning he had a second attacker to watch and deflect. Lets just igbore the fact that they didnt beat him. In that story Savage was victorious.

He was humiliated because arrows managed to tag him when they were shot in sucession Speedy had nothing to do with Savage being overwhelmed by arrows, she just shot the last one and that's it, it was all Oliver's work to tag him. It doesn't matter if he blocked a few at first, the fact arrows, of all things managed to overpower his perception is beyond underwhelming by Daredevil's standards. Hell, if he actually blocked some of them and dodged the others it would have been a good feat, but no, he didn't and he didn't look like he could at any given moment either. If he was blocking the arrows casually he would've been completely capable of keeping up with Arrow's shots instead of being overpowered.

Yeah, we could definitely ignore the fact he wasn't beaten considering that's not the point being argued here but the fact he's really freaking slow by Daredevil's standards. I mean, i even posted the feat from Daredevil vol.1 #199 where Daredevil (ironically) casually catches 3 arrows from 3 different directions from 3 different attackers at the same time, which is exactly what Savage couldn't do by your own admission (even though it was only Ollie attacking him and Speedy just shot the last arrow when he was already tagged twice)... It's not debatable, that instance is nothing but sad for Arrow's team.

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beatboks1

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@ghostravage: O_o ???

Thia fires more than one arrow. She gets up fires an arrow we see Savage distracted at that point and we him finally tagged when there are two arrows striking him at once. The one that actually taggs him was in the sholder while Ollie was firing dead center. Frankly i see this as possibly Thia tagging him first not Ollie.

Yeah she had nothing to do with it, FFS its right there. Ollie had fired like 8 to 10 arrows by that point and Savage was smiling. They clearly werent an issue. Not to memtiin the fact he had no reason to even deflect one if he didnt want to, its not like the arrows do shit to him or can harm him. And lets not forget Savage won not team arrow/Flash.

Talk about twisting a feat for it to read the way you want and lowball

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YeNahYoureWrong

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Arrow solos. Daredevil wouldn't stand a chance against powered grandmasters like Darhk, Vandal Savage and Ra's al Ghul all of who Oliver can defeat alone.

Nah

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TheSpartanB345T

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#141  Edited By TheSpartanB345T

Arrow STOMPS. He uses his light magic arrow to one-shot Daredevil.

UNLESS YOU THINK MATT CAN BEAT DAMIEN DARHK

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DSTREET45

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@beatboks1: TBH it looks like Thea only fired one arrow the entire time. She isn't seen drawing a second arrow and the sound effect of the first arrow that hit Savage sounds like it was fired from Oliver's bow.

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beatboks1

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@dstreet45: at 3.58 thea gets up draws her bow and 4.00 Savage is hit in the shoulder at exactly the same time he blocks an arrow to bis centre (where Oliver had been firing). At no point to we see Ollie load two arrows at once. Thea has to reload her bow at 4.06 to fire the the shot that sends Savage out the window. So no she didnt fire only once and Ollie isnt fast enough to have two arrows strike Savage at the same time.

Seriously COME ON!!!!

Also @nickzambuto just noticed you said Ollie can beat Savage on his own (along with Darhk, Ra's etc). He can't and never could. He had a team backing him for every single victory.

If he could beat Savage why team with team Flash, Hawkgirl and Hawkman on top of his own team. They had a comlletely orchestrated multi pronged attack just to prevent HG from getting killed.

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GhostRavage

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@ghostravage: O_o ???

Thia fires more than one arrow. She gets up fires an arrow we see Savage distracted at that point and we him finally tagged when there are two arrows striking him at once. The one that actually taggs him was in the sholder while Ollie was firing dead center. Frankly i see this as possibly Thia tagging him first not Ollie.

Yeah she had nothing to do with it, FFS its right there. Ollie had fired like 8 to 10 arrows by that point and Savage was smiling. They clearly werent an issue. Not to memtiin the fact he had no reason to even deflect one if he didnt want to, its not like the arrows do shit to him or can harm him. And lets not forget Savage won not team arrow/Flash.

Talk about twisting a feat for it to read the way you want and lowball

Thia fires more than one arrow. She gets up fires an arrow we see Savage distracted at that point and we him finally tagged when there are two arrows striking him at once. The one that actually taggs him was in the sholder while Ollie was firing dead center. Frankly i see this as possibly Thia tagging him first not Ollie.

She does not. She literally grabs an arrow, Ollie still shooting his arrows, then she shoots the last one when Ollie yells "NO!". The sound effects of the arrows being shot go along Arrow's own barrage of arrows whereas Speedy was still jumping over a sofa while Srrow stopped shooting. The arrows were not shot at the same time Beatboks, stop being so defensive about it a look at the video, is crystal clear one arrow tags him first, then showcases Ollie shooting the second one, then said arrow is shown, then Speedy shoots the third. You can even tell by the colors of the arrows Savage is deflecting that they were Ollie's but the last one was from Speedy.

No Caption Provided

This first image corresponds to the last arrow Savage deflected before getting tagged in the shoulder and as you can probably see, the arrow looks green instead of Speedy's red arrows, which is actually blatantly seen as soon as she tags him that has a peculiar red color to it. The following refers to the aforementioned factor in case:

No Caption Provided

Afterwards, you can clearly see the difference in colors from the arrows that actually tag him and the arrows that didn't and that includes the arrows he blocked who were all shot by Ollie and Speedy just shot one. Either way, i think you're forgetting Ollie can shoot more than one arrow at the same time, he proved as much very early in the series when he shot 3 tennis balls with three arrows at the same time, who are you to say he didn't do it here if it happened off-panel? You have nothing to base this off, no SFX, no visuals... Just an assumption.

No Caption Provided

Yeah she had nothing to do with it, FFS its right there. Ollie had fired like 8 to 10 arrows by that point and Savage was smiling. They clearly werent an issue. Not to memtiin the fact he had no reason to even deflect one if he didnt want to, its not like the arrows do shit to him or can harm him. And lets not forget Savage won not team arrow/Flash.

Of course she had nothing to do with it... She was busy lasting 10 freaking seconds in jumping over a sofa. You're being overly-defensive over something you have no real basis to argue for. Savage wasn't smiling, he had a cringe face and was obviously trying to keep up with the arrows. They weren't an issue, until he got tagged by them. Exactly my point, why use the instance if you don't showcase Savage keeping up with the arrows like Daredevil has done so many times, effortlessly. The outcome of the fight is irrelevant to the point in question.

Talk about twisting a feat for it to read the way you want and lowball

Calm yourself. I'm not lowballing, i just don't share the overblown perception some people here have over Arrow characters. I think the show is bad and the characters do not really have feats to compete with characters like Daredevil who are consistently written with feat-heavy runs who also happen to put him on the top of the street leveler pyramid.

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RBT

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#145  Edited By RBT

Laurel could solo, tbh. Her go-to attack is a high pitched sonic scream, the likes of which would not mix well with Matt's senses. Obviously, even without that, Matt loses this.

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RampageTheFirst

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Oh no...

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deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4

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Oh yes!!!

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deactivated-60fae469e992f

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Oh YEAAAAAAAAA

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SupremeGeneration

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No Caption Provided

*coughs* dampeners *coughs*