500k Civil War troops vs 500 Modern-era US troops

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deactivated-64969837cbeff

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Civil War Union Soldiers (500,000 troops)

VS
VS

Modern era US Soldiers & Marines (500 troops)

No Caption Provided

Rules:

  • Both sides are morals off.
  • 24 hours prep for CW troops. They also have excellent teamwork and full knowledge of the modern-era troops. On the other hand, the modern-era US troops have excellent teamwork too, but get no prep or prior knowledge of the CW troops.
  • The battle takes place in a 70-mile zone of semi-dense forest. Both sides begin 150 meters apart. The CW troops start with the high ground, and the modern-era troops are obviously aware of this.
  • No tactical nukes, aircraft/air support, tanks, or armored vehicles of any kind for the modern-era soldiers & marines. Besides the aforementioned, they are fully equipped with all standard infantry & artillery weapons/pieces. However, if and when the modern-era troops kill/capture 50% of the CW soldiers, they can't use any more artillery pieces whatsoever.
  • Both sides are given unlimited ammo, but the modern-era troops must reload their weapons.
  • One side wins when everyone on the other side is killed or captured. The modern-era troops are allowed to tactically retreat (if needed) as much as they need to, but must stay within the 70 mile combat zone.

Which side wins and why?

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advent_

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IFV's Brrrrt down the Civil War soldiers.

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IRONandFIRE

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@redhood_jaytodd: Such a mismatch here.

You can't give the modern day troops current artillery. With their superior communications they would be able to decimate any number of civil war soldiers with artillery for as long as they wanted to. The only thing stopping them would be tiring out.

Combine artillery with automatic weapons that dwarf the range of any civil war weapons and you should make this number 5 million civil war soldiers. Honestly, they find some high ground make a circle of artillery, with infinite grenades and rocket launchers, and infinite ammo for mid-long range assault rifles, with sniper rifles. I mean this would be an absolute massacre.

Not to mention that with no prior knowledge these are going to be massive looking explosions that would break any line of soldiers from the 1800s.

A musket has an effective range of 400 yards.

Modern Day artillery as in a simple mortar can go up to 4,000 m. So if the marines get high ground they can defend a position indefinitely with enough artillery against an incalculable number of civil war foes.

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deactivated-64969837cbeff

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@advent_ said:

IFV's Brrrrt down the Civil War soldiers.

The modern-day US troops can't use any armored vehicles. I don't think this battle would be debatable or remotely fair if I allowed those in the OP.

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warrior8411

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Civil war army , they have 1000 soldiers for 1 Modern one , and they aren't fighting with spears and sword .

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advent_

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@redhood_jaytodd: y doncha strip them butt naked and take their rifles away too will yah?

Anyway still win, they hold out until nightfall then put on their night vision goggles and clap unless you're taking that away too.

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Tuzle12

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The civil war soldiers should win. Only if they don't fight smart. Common this is 500 vs 500000 and this 500000 still have guns but very old guns.

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LightorDark

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#8  Edited By LightorDark

Give the Civil War soldiers swords and shields and they still win. 500,000 people is absurd.

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This is about 50,000 people. They look like ants. Now multiply that by ten.

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TheEmperor95

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This is very winnable for either side tbh. Modern troops can just continuously fall back and tear the CW army apart as they don't have anywhere near the range and their weapons wouldn't get through body armor. CW soldiers just need to rush and make it a melee to win. Honestly the high ground doesn't favor the CW side since they need to get down from it to win. Running a 150m downhill without falling is going to take much longer then just running backwards on level ground. Not to mention the tactics of CW armies is so outdated. Walking in a straight line until you get within range of your enemy isn't going to work well against modern weapons. Modern soldiers will just split up into teams as there's no way you'd want to face an army of that size head on and mortars hammering away at them as they try to make it downhill doesn't help either. CW side would likely just get routed but if they just push through without caring about survival or casualties I can see them taking it

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tparks

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#10  Edited By tparks

Having Unlimited ammo without needing to reload for the Civil War troops makes this a stomp for them. They’re basically using automatic weapons

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Jack_Hart

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#12  Edited By Jack_Hart

Modern military stomp. Enemy backlines will get pounded by mortar fire while their frontlines get shredded by beehive rounds and 50 cals.

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GraniteVision

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Modern troops stomp

Firing range of modern assault rifle is way above CW era rifles

One machinegun>>>>>

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themongoose

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CW no difficulty it dosent matter who has better weapons when it's 500 vs half a millon

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themongoose

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@granitevision: How? They still have to reload honestly when it's that many CW troops they could just bum rush

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death4bunnies

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#16 death4bunnies  Moderator

@granitevision: How? They still have to reload honestly when it's that many CW troops they could just bum rush

Knowledge or not CW gonna poop themselves when 500 highly trained troops open up with automatic weapons, grenades and more... or better yet half fire while other half reloads… it’s a common U.S. tactic not used in such numbers, but cover me while I reload is trained in.

Probably start too close for any real artillery, and modern troops don’t have much time to dig in.

Decent enough fight, but once the 500 establish anykinda parameter defense it’s gonna be hard to break through with muskets.

Maybe if CW was bloodlusted, and could somehow overcome the fear of the air filling with bullets and explosives, and watching their friends die in literal waves they could overwhelm the modern troops… but imagining it, I feel like the larger team will be routed by what seems to them to be a insurmountable wall of lead… hard to imagine a CW general using zombie rush(don’t care how many troops I lose) tactics.

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themongoose

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#17  Edited By themongoose

@death4bunnies: Hard for me to believe the CW troops would freakout when they have days prep and full knowledge but ok and at 150 meters the Marines get flanked on all sides

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death4bunnies

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#18 death4bunnies  Moderator

@death4bunnies: Hard for me to believe the CW troops would freakout when they have days prep and full knowledge but ok and at 150 meters the Marines get flanked on all sides

Hard to believe even with a day of being told “these guys have amazing weaponry“ they can bring themselves to zombie rush with no concern of their hundred of friends being shot to pieces around them and the spray of lead and explosions.. I dont know how 1 day of prep can properly prepare or train you to run through hell like that.

I agree, after a few moments the modern will have to defend in 360 degrees.

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heiqn

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#19  Edited By heiqn

CW

500,000 zombies with zero intelligence beats Modern Army, let alone people with guns, with at worst average intelligence with 1 day prep (against Modern Army who has 0 preperation and knowledge on other side). Not to mention other advantages like no reload guns.

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Jack_Hart

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#20  Edited By Jack_Hart

500k men won't be able to effectively deploy their numbers en masse through a dense forest, it'll slow down and disperse/thin down their ranks enough for the modern soldiers to see through and recover from the initial assault at which point they can gather their bearings and systematically pick apart the civil war guys. It'd be like the novel 1632.

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comicvinepoozer1

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500k stomp in my opinion

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SanMiguel1

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So, the CW troops don’t have to reload? Only cock and shoot? Union troops win. Half a mill is too many.

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deactivated-64969837cbeff

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@advent_ said:

@redhood_jaytodd: y doncha strip them butt naked and take their rifles away too will yah?

Anyway still win, they hold out until nightfall then put on their night vision goggles and clap unless you're taking that away too.

Bruh, I can't tell if you're trolling. But if you are, cut the crap. How on earth is this supposed to be even close to being reasonably fair if I strip the modern-day troops of their essential basic weapons? Make that make sense.

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IRONandFIRE

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#24  Edited By IRONandFIRE

@redhood_jaytodd: This battle is way better now with the updated conditions.

Edit: You should also add in a clause that modern troops don't have anything m60 like. With a dozen m60s and infinite ammo they could mow down infinite amounts of people

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Jack_Hart

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#25  Edited By Jack_Hart

@ironandfire: Beehive rounds can also wreak havoc on the civil war guys. Also given the dense forest will probably limit how many men the civil war guys can throw at once against the modern guys, even a M4 at semi auto mode can decimate the enemy with unlimited ammo even with reloading.

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deactivated-64969837cbeff

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deactivated-64969837cbeff

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Bump!

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seastone98

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#36  Edited By seastone98

Modern guns artillery & communication is a great advantage but it's not nearly enough to stop this many enemy soldiers epically in an open field

This is a war of attrition & being out numbered 1,000 is a k/d ratio too enormous to ignore

Quantity has a quality of its own

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SpongeGar

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CW troops wins

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kataraaaa

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500,000 vs 500... it'd be quit embarrassing if the 500,000 lost

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Jack_Hart

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@seastone98:Setting isn't an open field, it's a semi-dense forest.

@kataraaaa: Not that embarrassing considering they're up against modern artillery/automatic weapons with unlimited ammunition.

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seastone98

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@seastone98:Setting isn't an open field, it's a semi-dense forest.

Honestly that's not much better

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Elderberry

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CW troops curbstomp

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@elderberry said:

CW troops curbstomp

Why do you think they curbstomp?

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Elderberry

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MaulSmacker

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cergic

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@comicvinepoozer1 said:

500k stomp in my opinion

This, times ten.

It's genuinely surprising to see anyone vouching for the 500 modern troops given the ridiculous stipulations and sheer number difference.

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a8612152

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This is just ground troops vs ground troops right? Then CW troops stomps hard.

1000 soldiers with bolt action/lever action rifle >>>>>> 1 soldier with automatic rifle.

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@a8612152 said:

This is just ground troops vs ground troops right? Then CW troops stomps hard.

1000 soldiers with bolt action/lever action rifle >>>>>> 1 soldier with automatic rifle.

Bolt action rifles didn't even exist during the American Civil War, lol. The Civil War guys used muzzle-loading rifled muskets.

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@cergic said:
@maulsmacker said:
@comicvinepoozer1 said:

500k stomp in my opinion

This, times ten.

It's genuinely surprising to see anyone vouching for the 500 modern troops given the ridiculous stipulations and sheer number difference.

It's probably because they're taking into account the fact that modern-day infantry and artillery weapons are still >>>>>>> their Civil War counterparts.

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cergic

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@redhood_jaytodd:

Well yes, but you really should remove the prep to even have a discussion about this. People were not morons back then in terms of warfare. Flanking, sacrifices and overwhelming force were things commonly known even back in Sun Zis day, and that's almost 2500 years ago. One full day of prep guarantees a donut-manouver from the start, and the muskets these guys use are effective from the starting distance. Full knowledge 24 hours of prep and the high ground = even 500k archers could take this.