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#1 Edited by Kevd4wg (12512 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1:

Martain Manhunter & Odin Force Thor (Repped by DarthJHawk and BlackSpidey2099)

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Team 2:

Loki, Stardust, & Hal Jordan (Repped by KOL, CIB, and Kev)

No Caption Provided

Rules

  • In character but fighting to the best of their abilities
  • Standard Gear
  • Perfect teamwork
  • 616 versions for Marvel Characters
  • Post Crisis and onwards for DC
  • No BFR
  • Loki is Pre-God of Stories
  • Odin Force Thor is limited to Post Ragnarok(Feats from Jurgens, Old King Thor, Rune King Thor, King Thor are all void) feats from Worthy & Unworthy Thor still apply

Battlefield

Both teams start 1 mile apart and the planetoid is indestructible
Both teams start 1 mile apart and the planetoid is indestructible
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#2 Posted by Kevd4wg (12512 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by Darthjhawk (5345 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
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#4 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18241 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm,T4V.

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#5 Posted by The_living_tribunal_24 (6020 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#6 Posted by blackpantherisb (6955 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#7 Posted by deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed (1311 posts) - - Show Bio
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#8 Posted by deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed (1311 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by Spiderman1997 (2349 posts) - - Show Bio

Dis gon’ be gud

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#11 Edited by blackspidey2099 (6510 posts) - - Show Bio

@lanternbatman said:

@darthjhawk@blackspidey2099@_kingoflatveria@kevd4wg would this work for a posting order?

  1. Blackspidey2099
  2. Darthjhawk
  3. Kevdawg
  4. LanternBatman
  5. KingOfLatveria

I'm okay with going first, but I'm just warning you that I do need to do quite a lot of research on my character before I can post (moreso than any of you). Also, I'd prefer if Darth and I didn't post right after each other so we get better opportunities to counter your team.

EDIT: Just to confirm, I can use composite JMS OF Thor + regular Thor + Unworthy Thor feats if I want right?

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#12 Edited by deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed (1311 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackspidey2099 said:
@lanternbatman said:

@darthjhawk@blackspidey2099@_kingoflatveria@kevd4wg would this work for a posting order?

  1. Blackspidey2099
  2. Darthjhawk
  3. Kevdawg
  4. LanternBatman
  5. KingOfLatveria

I'm okay with going first, but I'm just warning you that I do need to do quite a lot of research on my character before I can post (moreso than any of you). Also, I'd prefer if Darth and I didn't post right after each other so we get better opportunities to counter you.

Do as much research as you want. I know nothing about Odinforce Thor, so I can't base my opener on anything here. Also would this be better then:

  1. Blackspidey2099
  2. Kevdawg
  3. Darthjhawk
  4. LanternBatman
  5. KingOfLatveria

Edit: Yeah

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#13 Posted by Darthjhawk (5345 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackspidey2099: @lanternbatman: Since Bs needs to do that much research why not just have the team of three go first and BS go last? Sounds like it’ll be simplest that way

Online
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#14 Posted by deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed (1311 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackspidey2099: @lanternbatman: Since Bs needs to do that much research why not just have the team of three go first and BS go last? Sounds like it’ll be simplest that way

Kev and KoL know about OF Thor. Meanwhile, i have zero knowledge about his capabilities to format an opener.

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#15 Posted by Darthjhawk (5345 posts) - - Show Bio

@lanternbatman: Then don’t worry about trying to do all the preliminary counter stuff. Just make an opener displaying your character.

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#16 Posted by deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed (1311 posts) - - Show Bio

@lanternbatman: Then don’t worry about trying to do all the preliminary counter stuff. Just make an opener displaying your character.

That doesn't work, but we just agreed on a posting order in the PM, so whateves

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#17 Posted by oceanmaster21 (15226 posts) - - Show Bio

T4v

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#18 Edited by deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed (1311 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal Jordan

No Caption Provided

Damage Output

Hal's foremost and most common method of attack is energy projection. His energy projection has allowed him to go way outside of his weight class several times. To start with a basic feat but solid feat, here is Hal effortlessly dropping a Yellow Lantern.

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Green Lantern Vol. 5 #3

The feat is there to show how quickly Hal can take down solid high tiers. Yellow Lanterns are fairly on par with Green Lanterns, which are capable of tanking planetary explosions (The Green Lantern Corps #218). However, while that is certainly an impressive feat, it's not as impressive for the herald tier. So I'll one that up:

Justice League Of America Vol. 2 #23
Justice League Of America Vol. 2 #23

The JLA were fighting Amazo, with Wonder Woman blocking his heat vision blasts. However Hal managed to bust a hole in him, dealing severe damage and forcing him to retreat. This is extremely impressive because Amazo had the combined durability of the Justice League, including Hal himself. And yes, Amazo's powers do stack. I can show you such instances if need be, but even if it's powers weren't stacking on top of each other, it was using Superman's powers. Now I generally see 3 counters to this feat, so I'll counter them now (not sure if you'll use them, but just in case);

  • Amazo's energy durability is shit tier. Case in point, some explosive arrows from Red Arrow damaged him.
  • This doesn't make any sense. Batman, Green Arrow, Red Arrow, Deathstroke and more have all had gear, even standard explosives that damaged high tiers, heralds, and teambusters. That's ridiculous. But it happens, writers write streets having such good gear to hang with higher tier threats. Trying to lowball Amazo with that is absurd.
  • Black Canary blew its head off.'
  • First of all, Canary holds back a lot. When she unleashes, she matched Hal's energy projection (so her blowing his head off would make perfect sense), broke John Stewart's construct shield, KOed Despero and the likes. Outside of that, sonic/sound attacks are so vastly different from Hal's energy projection and energy projection in general that it makes zero sense to use this as an anti-feat. It's like using an electrical durability feat for tanking a fire attack.
  • Amazo got melted by a red supergiant.
  • Temperature resistance =/= energy durability. Hal's energy blasts don't deal damage through heat. I mean, they can but not mainly. I can provide proof to substantiate that claim if needed.

And no, this isn't even Hal's best feat. I have a LOT of other instances to show, but since this CaV has 5 debaters I want to try to condense my post. Now onto Hal's second method of attack: piercing constructs. When Hal fought Mongul II, all his blunt force attacks and energy blasts were failing to put him down. So instead he utilized piercing constructs, creating arrows inside of him - completely ignoring his durability.

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Green Lantern Vol. 4 #7

This is a pretty HAX method that ignores durability. A method Hal can employ if none of his other attacks are working. That one feat above is more than enough right now, but I can provide more if need be. Anyway, Green Lantern's final method of attack is blunt force constructs. In this case he was able to casually draw from Lobo, a Superman lvl character who has tanked hits from Superman on several occasions.

Green Lantern Vol. 4 #55
Green Lantern Vol. 4 #55

But this is just high tier blunt force, Hal has better. A strong showing for Hal is when he casually, easily broke/dislocated The Cyborg Superman's jaw with a single punch.

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Green Lantern Vol. 4 #12

And CS has taken hits from Superman multiple times with zero damage:

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Scan sources:

  • Superman Vol. 2 #108
  • Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey #2

When Hal fought him, Henshaw was amped on Green Lantern Rings. So his durability was way superior to what it was before. Yet Hal possesses enough blunt force to put him down. Clearly Hal's striking power>>Superman's. Also something I'd like to cover is MMH's intangibility. Unfortunately for Darth, he doesn't abuse it:

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  • Scan 1: Amazo burns him with heat vision. (JLA #27)
  • Scan 2: Superboy Prime squeezes him. (Tales Of The Sinestro Corps: Superman Prime)
  • Scan 3: Superboy Prime one-shots him. (Infinite Crisis #6)
  • Scan 4: Breach one-shots him with an energy blast. (Breach #4)
  • Scan 5: Primaid tags him. (JLA #4)

The point here is not to lowball J'onn's durability, but to show how he doesn't abuse his intangibility. He only uses it once or twice in a fight, but never again later on.

Durability

In terms of durability Hal can take hits from herald tiers. A strong showing for Hal is his fight against Cyborg Superman. He took a bullrush, followed by a punch and then a direct point blank heat vision blast to the face yet tanked all of it. And Hank was amped by several Green Lantern Rings here.

Green Lantern Vol. 4 #13
Green Lantern Vol. 4 #13

Hank Henshaw is one of the top dogs of the herald tier, let me tell you:

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  • Scan 1-2: Effortlessly one-shots Superman with heat vision. It's important to note Henshaw was possessed by the Tribunal Prime. (Superman Vol. 2 #108)
  • Scan 3: Casually one-shots Guy Gardner with a punch. Guy has tanked hits from the Superman lvl Kilowag. (Green Lantern Vol. 4 #12)
  • Scan 4: Literally busts a hole in Doomsday with a single bullrush. (Superman/Batman Annual #5)

So Hal Jordan tanking a punch and a heat vision blast from an amped Hank Henshaw is an extremely impressive feat. But Cyborg Superman isn't the only powerful character Hal took hits from:

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Green Lantern Vol. 4 #58

Here, an angry enraged Larfleeze slams Hal with a giant-sized construct of himself. Hal tanks it unscathed, with no damage whatsoever. A fairly impressive feat considering Larfleeze is on the mid teambuster lvl. Now in terms of energy durability, Hal can handle both Martian Manhunter's heat vision and Thor's lightning although my knowledge on Odinforce Thor is lacking. I already showed an incredibly impressive feat with Cyborg Superman's heat vision. But he has more:

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Green Lantern: Emerald Dawn #3-4

Here, Hal was facing a yellow creature that was hunting Oa. Hal attempted to take it down by blasting fission reactors, creating a nuclear explosion. He tanked the resulting explosion with no visible damage. This is an impressive feat because Hal was still a complete rookie, hell he didn't even get Green Lantern training yet. But this is a low end feat, so I'll do better:

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Hal Jordan and The Green Lantern Corps #20

To explain the context, the Green and Sinestro Corps were fighting some Prism Beasts. These things were pretty much no selling their energy blasts. So, the Corps' had Hal lure the Prism Beasts to Mogo. Then, they amped Mogo with hundreds of Lanterns. This included Elite Lanterns like Kyle Rayner and John Stewart. Even without this amp, Mogo was capable of dealing good damage to the Guardian Of The Universe Ganthet. Obviously Mogo is massively more powerful here. Hal lured the beasts, and tanked the blast with no damage at all. This is a comfortable planet+ lvl showing, probably multi-planet lvl.

Speed

Hal doesn't really speed-blitz. He doesn't use his speed Superman style to dance around his opponents. However he can still avoid Martian Manhunter and Thor's attacks. He's blitzed Superman. Pretty impressive considering Superman has FTL combat speed and reaction time. I know I said Hal doesn't blitz often, this is just to highlight Hal's combat and travel speed.

Superman/Batman #29
Superman/Batman #29

Hal replicated the "I'm way faster than Superman" feat against Hunter Zolomon. Hunter was moving at speeds fast enough to WTF-blitz Superman and Wonder Woman, yet Hal has enough perception, reaction and combat speed to chain up Zolomon with a chain construct. Perception and reaction time feat due to perceiving Zolomon, reaction feat due to reacting to Hunter blitzing the Trinity by making the chain construct, and combat due to being capable of moving and creating the construct while Hunter is blitzing the Trinity.

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Green Lantern/Sinestro Corps Special

Another strong feat for Hal is his famous fight against Sinestro (Green Lantern: Rebirth #5). Light takes a few minutes to cross the distance between the moon and Saturn. Meanwhile, Hal and Sinestro fight all the way to Saturn in a few panels/pages, in some seconds. A very clear cut FTL+ feat, where Hal's combat, reaction, thinking and perception speed make light look slow.

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Strategy

Hal's role here is support. By that I mean he'll attack J'onn and Thor from all sides with constructs and energy blast attacks whilst Stardust and Loki attack them. This is something he has been doing all the time in Rebirth. Hal has fought a ton of Yellow Lanterns, using a lot of constructs and blasts.

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Hal Jordan and The Green Lantern Corps #3

This was seen again when he fought the Sinestro Corps, except to a higher extent. Hal created dozens of constructs, AoE blasts, normal blast explosions and the likes to crowd-control them.

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Hal Jordan and The Green Lantern Corps #6

And again against a two sun amped General Zod. He was out-matched, so tactically he used dozens of constructs yet again. This doubles as a good energy attacks feat, since his construct explosions took out Zod. Under one sun Zod was already Superman lvl, under two he was curbstomping Kyle Rayner.

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Hal Jordan and The Green Lantern Corps #41

In short Hal will stay at a distance from afar, create dozens upon dozens of constructs and projectile Green Lantern blasts, attacking your team from all sides, leaving them open for attacks from Stardust and Loki. I've shown the lvl of damage output Hal has, so I'm confident in his ability to put down OF Thor/MMH with the help of his teammates. In addition Hal can attempt to restrain both J'onn and Thor as a distraction. He's managed to completely restrain Lobo using a chain construct, with Lobo not being capable of putting so much as a crack in Hal's construct:

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Green Lantern Vol. 4 #55

Lobo has been capable of overpowering Superman (although it was mental blocks so Pre-Mongul II training. That version of Clark is weaker than Post-Death of Superman Superman but was still capable of throwing a moon-sized ship), overpowering Shazam and crushing trillions of tons worth of a city into a bite-size package, then eating the city. The fact that Hal can effortlessly restrain him speaks for itself. In addition he can block Martian Manhunter's telepathy by forming constructs on his, Loki and Stardust's head:

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Green Lantern Legacy: The Last Will and Testament Of Hal Jordan

Pieface (a close friend of Hal's) came into possession of a Green Lantern Ring, and soloed the JLA. Part of this fight included blocking J'onn's psi-attacks. Bear in mind that Pieface is a complete rookie of the GL ring. In the comic he was portrayed multiple times as a screw-up, kept whining about his responsibilities, and etc. Obviously his willpower is trash tier. Meanwhile, Hal has incredible feats of willpower. Even as a rookie, Hal overcame the Yellow Weakness of Green Lantern Rings, as he managed to destroy a yellow truck (Green Lantern Vol. 4 #34). Overcoming the Yellow Weakness is something not even Sinestro, who was the greatest Green Lantern of his age, could do let alone Pieface.

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I'm sure there's going to be a telepathic battle between J'onn and Loki, just wanted to throw that out there. Anyway;

  1. Hal can deal damage to both Odinforce Thor and Martian Manhunter. He has 3 ways to take down your team. Blunt force constructs, piercing constructs and energy blasts.
  2. Hal is more than fast enough to avoid any of Thor's attacks, and likely most of J'onns.
  3. If Thor somehow managed to hit Hal, he can take it. Same with Martian Manhunter. His durability has allowed him to take attacks from heralds and herald+ tiers on many occasions.
  4. He'll play support, blocking MMH's telepathy, attempting to restrain your team, as well as attacking them from all sides with many constructs and blasts.
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#20 Posted by HitTheAssasin (7876 posts) - - Show Bio

Too many debaters. T4V though.

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#21 Posted by Kevd4wg (12512 posts) - - Show Bio

@lanternbatman: I think that's the shortest post I've ever seen you do

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#22 Posted by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg: why does it say "Bullshit2099" in the op? Lmao.

Anyway, t4v.

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#23 Posted by Kevd4wg (12512 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg: why does it say "Bullshit2099" in the op? Lmao.

Anyway, t4v.

Cause I copied and pasted KoL's format without proofreading

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#24 Posted by deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed (1311 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg said:

@lanternbatman: I think that's the shortest post I've ever seen you do

You guys asked for a short post, I gave you a short post.

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#25 Posted by vsw (2873 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#26 Posted by Kevd4wg (12512 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed (1311 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Posted by Stalin-Is-Steel (3586 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V, probably won't be finished through lol

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#29 Posted by blackspidey2099 (6510 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V, probably won't be finished through lol

Hear that @_kingoflatveria? Everyone's throwing shade at you now LMAO. Get your post up in 4 days or CIB will delete his post.

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#30 Posted by deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed (1311 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

No who fixed my perfect OP

@kevd4wg change it back

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#32 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Posted by deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed (1311 posts) - - Show Bio
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#34 Edited by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

Loki Laufeyson - The Asgardian God of Evil and Mischief

No Caption Provided

Mischief is a small thing, a toy I've well used and discarded. This isn't mischief. This is mayhem. Just watch.

Taken as a small child by Odin after he had slain his father Laufey in combat. Not actually being Asgardian he never really fit in with the Asgardians who recognized status by honor, strength, battle status all titles Loki had none to boast. What he did however have was a natural talent for sorcery and by the time he was an adult he practically masted it becoming the greatest in Asgard. Filled by his jealousy for his brother Thor and his lust for revenge he eventually became amongst one of Asgard's greatest nemesis. Loki eventually mastered temporal manipulation and using his magic as he manipulated his younger self into becoming what he became in the future essentially creating himself and his own enemy.

Powers and Abilities

  • Superhuman Physicals
  • Cryokinesis both by virtue of his mastery of magic and his frost giant heritage
  • Proficient in close quarter combat
  • Master Sorcery
    • Energy Attacks
    • Illusions
    • Molecule Manipulation
    • Intangibility
    • Telepathy
    • Ability Amplifying
    • Teleportation

(basically all I'm gonna argue)

Damage Output-Energy Attacks

I'm not gonna go ham with all the hax just yet although just something to start off his energy attacks are very powerful. So powerful they can one-shot characters on a similar tier to everyone here minus Odin Force Thor like Beta Ray Bill

Thor Vol. 1 #441
Thor Vol. 1 #441

who I'm confident has better energy resistance then Martian Manhunter

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  • Scan 1: Bill tanks a blast from Galactus that scorches the planet the attack only pisses him off[Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #1)
  • Scan 2: Bill tanks standing on top of a planetary explosion[Beta Ray Bill: Godhunter #1]
  • Scan 3-4: Tanks being at the epicenter of a planetary explosion only mildly dazed[Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #4]

moving onto something a bit more powerful Loki's energy blasts were powerful enough to phase a Skyfather known as Surtur who was a rival for Odin, while these blasts weren't powerful to do any significant damage to Surtur he at the very least acknowledged some pain from the blast and the 2nd time Loki blasted him on panel he attempted to block it showing that it in the very least as powerful enough to not want to get hit by it the 2nd time

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Thor Vol.1 #353

Another impressive showing comes from his encounter with Dr. Strange in which he claimed his power was weakened due to being present in his astral form he was still powerful to break crack Dr. Strange's shields

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Strange Tales #123

which are as powerful as they come

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Doctor Strange Vol. 1 #173

Here Strange's shields tanked cosmic winds formed by Dormammu whom of which claimed would be powerful enough to topple planets from their orbit.

  • Scan 1: Stephen tanks the winds
  • Scan 2: Dormammu describes the power of the winds he just conjured

another impressive showing for his shields comes from Marvel Premiere #9 where they no sell an exploding planet

No Caption Provided

even by low-end feats, Strange's shield feats are hella impressive and he was able to crack it while not even being at 100%

and if you're team does somehow manage to pressure Loki he can always fire his AOE which was powerful enough to acknowledge some sign of discomfort out of Seth

Journey into Mystery #513
Journey into Mystery #513

who in the same issue was contending with Odin and giving him a half decent fight

Loki's energy attacks will definitely be capable of harming Odin Force Thor considering they've stunned skyfather tier characters before and will be capable of taking Martian Manhunter quickly out of the fight

Telepathy

Assuming Martian Manhunter isn't taken out in the first few seconds of this battle and somehow manages to hang in and use his telepathy he's just gonna get shut out. A sorcerer who's been regularly shown as inferior to Loki known as Amora the Enchantress called one of the strongest telepaths on Planet Earth "a joke" conjuring a barrier around her mind keeping him out a for good.

Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars #6
Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars #6

this should cement Amora well beyond Xavier and yet when she tried to hex Loki she accomplished nothing

Thor: Son of Asgard #7
Thor: Son of Asgard #7

his own offensive telepathy is also what I believe to be well above John's capabilities

here he used his telepathy on Bor who was able to fight evenly with Odin Force Thor for some time into fighting Thor

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Thor Vol.1 #600

here he uses his telepathy to drive Reed Richards insane

Thor: First Thunder #5
Thor: First Thunder #5

and here comes a very impressive feat from Journey into Mystery Vol.1 #108 where a single physic blast is powerful enough to drain Dr. Strange all his energy to block just one

No Caption Provided

and here comes one of his most powerful feats of telepathy being able to contend with Odin on "every astral and metaphysical plane" while being in his astral plane which weakens him to a fraction of his overall power so I'm fully confident he could've held this state of power for longer assuming he was at full power also considering the fact that Odin is a skyfather well above everyone in this cav put together I don't think it takes much away from the feat

Thor #455
Thor #455

Just to recap. I don't think Martian Manhunter is capable of contending at this lvl of telepathy and he'll get overpowered easily in a battle of TP if he decides to contend with Loki in this category.

Speed

While Loki may not be the fastest here in terms of combat speed he does have very impressive reaction speeds I believe will allow him to keep up with everyone here especially considering he can cast his spells as fast as he can react as shown in multiple occasions conjuring spells while reacting to fast characters/projectiles

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  • Scan 1: Redirecting radio waves before they can reach their destination. Radio waves move at lightspeed so its a pretty clear FTL feat no discussion(Avengers Vol.1 #1)
  • Scan 2: Reacted to a thrown Mjolnir from near point blank(Avengers Vol. 1 #1). Mjolnir has several lightspeed travel feats as I'm sure everyone reading this already knows
  • Scan 3: Reacts to a thrown Stormbreaker has escpaped the pull of 2 singularities before making it FTL(Thor Vol.1 441)
  • Scan 4: Silver Surfer attempts to escape Loki--The God of Mischeif ain't having that and blasts him out of the sky(Silver Surfer Vol.1 #4).

------The last scan also shows Loki's energy attacks are very fast being able to tag a fleeing Silver Surfer would make them at least Lightspeed

Also something to point out Loki doesn't outright cast anything aloud he's clealy using magic to replicate all those feats added the fact that Loki has outright stated he has no need to cast his spells out loud

Doctor Strange #381
Doctor Strange #381

Also he has several showings instances of outpacing Thor so Thor's gonna need AOE's to tag him at the very least

Also, he's shown to be fast enough to teleport dance around Thor's attacks--The Odinforce has never been shown or even hinted at being able to amplify a user's speed so this showing still holds.

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Thor: First Thunder #2

even then his Post God of Stories version-(which again a boost in overall power doesn't equal greater speed)-was fast enough to dodge Old King Thor's attack who had greater control of the Odinforce even possessing it longer than Odin. He was tagged by Mjolnir but that was only become he wasn't aware of it even being behind him

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Loki: Agent of Asgard #12

& to conclude my speed section here is another feat of Loki's teen form sidestepping a charging Thor's bullrush backstabbing him

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Loki: Agent of Asgard #1

Durability

I'll be the first to admit Loki's durability ain't great OF Thor will really be hurting him however with MMH's shitty stats I do think he could tank hits from him and while his blunt force durability is somewhat crappy his energy resistance is solid herald lvl

Here Loki tanks a hammer throw from Thor only being knocked down in the process

Thor #274
Thor #274

Thor's hammer throws are powerful enough to pop planetoids for fun and go through heralds of Galactus

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  • Scan 1: Thor pops a far away planetoid for fun(Thor #400)
  • Scan 2-3: Thor's hammer goes through Air-Walker a herald of Galactus(Thor #305)

Here he tanks repeated hits from a bloodlusted Thor with minor injury

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Thor Vol.2 #81

and here he gets back up with no signs of injury from a pissed off Thor nailing him in the head

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Thor #432

Normal punches from Thor are capable of putting Vikingthrough the planet& his hammer hits can hit with force powerful enough to take off the Thing's arm. Note both of these instances are a young Thor who's was not as strong as he was in both of the instances I showed.

Energy durability is where he shines more and I'm confident he could take your team's damage output. Here he tanks energy blasts from the Silver Surfer and borderline isn't even bothered by it claiming he needs to goad him further

Silver Surfer Vol.1 #4
Silver Surfer Vol.1 #4

and here he is able to recover very quickly from a blast from Surtur channeling his power through the Twilight sword and is seen fine some pages later in the same issue showing even if you damage him slightly he can recover extremely quickly.

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Thor #353

The Fight-Loki's Role

First thing that will be done is setting up a mind link with Loki's TP this shouldn't be a problem and he's often using his TP when manipulating others from the sidelines. One example here.

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Silver Surfer #4

With perfect teamwork in character issues shouldn't be an issue this way my team is perfectly aware of the actions of the others such as Hal making constructs everywhere and Loki's part of the battle creating several illusions to fool his enemies. With these illusions Loki was able to hold off Skyfather Surtur for precious minutes and he has consistently been known to use several when fighting more than one opponent or being overwhelmed in combat.

Against Surtur

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Thor #353

he's also used his illusions into fooling his opponents into allowing for an ez opening such as this instance with Beta Ray Bill

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Thor #441

and when one of our teammates is about to go down Loki could cast a temporary intangibility spell on them such as happened when Thor almost died fighting the Destroyer

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Journey Into Mystery #119

Intro Summary

  • Loki has enough firepower to put down both of your team members with his other teammates both of whom have powerful damage output
  • Loki has enough durability to keep up
  • With the illusions, your team will struggle to find out who's the real us while the real us attack you
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#37 Posted by Darthjhawk (5345 posts) - - Show Bio

Jeez why does everyone hate Martian Manhunter.

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#38 Posted by blackspidey2099 (6510 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Edited by blackspidey2099 (6510 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor: God of Thunder

"Villain. Yield. I will not order you again." - Thor Odinson

Lord of Asgard: Bio

Since birth, Thor Odinson was destined for greatness, even among the very gods themselves. The son of Odin, the All-Father, and Jord/Gaea, an Elder God, Thor was burdened with glorious purpose - to end the reign of Those Who Sit Above In Shadow, the mysterious figures who played with gods as pawns and were responsible for the endless cycles of birth and cataclysmic destruction known as Ragnarok, and who even all-powerful Odin was powerless to stop. To ready him for this impossible task, Odin made sure Thor spent millenia learning humility and nobility - proving himself worthy of the enchanted uru hammer Mjolnir, spending some time in the form of a human, and even fighting alongside the Earth's Avengers as a founding member. But then, disaster struck. Odin was killed in combat with the fire demon Surtur. After inheriting the Odinforce, it was time for Thor to embrace his destiny. To do this, Thor needed even greater power than his late father ever had. But power comes through sacrifice. Thor plucked out both his eyes to gain mystical runic power from the well of Mimir, and hung himself for days until he reached the very brink of death, beating it and evolving past death itself. Sacrificing himself and the Asgardians to stop the dark puppetmaster, Thor became one with the very cosmos.

But then he came back. The Earth still needed the Mighty Thor, and he couldn''t leave the mortals unprotected. Resurrecting himself through sheer willpower, Thor returned to Earth, with a small portion of the Odinforce still intact and Asgard right behind him, relocated to Earth. With Asgard and Earth closer than ever, Thor continues fighting for both of his peoples, wielding the power of the storm to good use as the Lord of Asgard!

Avengers Assemble (2010) #1
Avengers Assemble (2010) #1

Powers & Gear

Before I move onto Thor's actual powers, I want to let everyone know that I will be using feats from all regular versions of Worthy and Unworthy Thor, in addition to feats from when he was partially empowered by the Odinforce. This is because Odinforce Thor was an amp from regular Thor, and thus still has access to all of Thor's abilities and powers, just to a greater extent - meaning he is capable of replicating any showing from less powerful incarnations of Thor.

Thor #602
Thor #602

As Dr. Strange says, removing the Odinforce returns Thor to his power levels before he got the Odinforce, meaning Thor with the Odinforce has access to all of regular Thor's feats and more.

Mightiest Avenger: Strength

It should go without saying that Thor is as strong as, if not stronger than, everyone in this battle. But I'll prove it with feats anyways.

1: Thor casually wrenches loose a million tons of solid rock (Journey Into Mystery #119).

2 - 3: Thor casually lifts and carries the largest mountain in Jotenheim (Thor: God of Thunder #19). A casual trillion ton feat, according to this estimate of the weight of Mount Everest.

4: Thor casually crushes the indestructible metal uru (Mighty Thor Vol. 2 #12) into dust with his sheer grip strength (Journey Into Mystery #94).

5: While in a friendly arm-wrestling match, Thor and Hercules generate enough force to not just shatter an entire plateau, but knock the entire planet out of orbit (Thor#400) - a casual planetary level feat.

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Divine Wrath: Striking Power

If Thor's strength is impressive, so is his striking power.

1: Thor puts Pre-Sakaar Hulk on the ground with just a few strikes (Hulk: Let The Battle Begin).

2: Thor can literally shatter worlds (note the plural) with the shockwaves of his strikes, not even directly striking them (Thor: God of Thunder #9). I know this is often lowballed as not a planet-busting feat, but it clearly is since the narration specifies Thor is breaking worlds, and the relevant definition of a world from the Oxford Dictionary is "another planet like the earth".

3 - 4: Odinforce Thor matches the Destroyer's striking power blow for blow (Thor Vol. 3 #5). I'm sure I don't need to show how powerful the Destroyer armor is, but if you guys need me to, I will provide some feats for scaling in my next post.

5: Odinforce Thor breaks Surtur's hand with a strike (Thor Vol. 3 # 8). The fact he can hurt a Skyfather should prove he won't have trouble beating anyone on your team.

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Immortal Physiology: Durability & Hax Resistance

Thor will have no trouble tanking attacks from your team and shrugging off any hax used by your team.

1 - 3: Thor tanks being blitzed at MFTL speeds by Deathseed Sentry, and then tanks a blow which shakes an entire world (Uncanny Avengers Vol. 1 #10).

4: Thor tanks a beating from an amped Juggernaut (Thor Vol. 5 #1).

5: Odinforce Thor endures the Destroyer's disintegration beam (Thor Vol. 3 #5).

6: Thor survives energy attacks from Celestials (Thor #300).

7: Thor withstands a mental/TP attack which even Moondragon cannot fight against (Avengers #138).

8: Thor withstands his liver being turned into broken glass (Thor: God of Thunder #17).

9 - 10: Thor tanks anti-matter attacks from anti-matter Electro (Avenging Spider-Man #19). Anti-matter should theoretically instantly annihilate any normal matter, so the fact that Thor could withstand these attacks shows he has a resistance to molecular attacks and molecular manipulation; as well as being an insane durability and pain tolerance feat.

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Slowdinson Fast as Lightning: Speed

Yeah, we all know the "Slowdinson" jokes floating throughout the Vine. However, Thor is actually pretty quick and has both the reflexes and travel speed to keep up with anyone else in this battle.

1: Thor can fight at FTE speeds (Journey Into Mystery #125).

2: Thor has microsecond level combat speed since he can punch and catch his hammer in the space of microseconds (Thor #144).

3: Thor can move Mjolnir at FTL speeds (Thor #140).

4: Thor deflects Iron Man's repulsor rays, showing FTL reflexes (Avengers Vol. 3 #3).

5: Thor can fly at FTL speeds (Thor #185).

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Brakka-Dooooom: Weather Manipulation

As the God of Thunder and Lightning, this is Thor's bread and butter, in addition to his physical might. I doubt anyone on your team can withstand too many elemental attacks from Thor.

1: Odinforce Thor can create EMPs (Thor Vol. 3 #3). Not really a big deal, but you should probably show Green Lantern's ring is immune to EMPs or else I'm going to say I instantly disable Hal with an EMP.

2 - 3: Odinforce Thor creates a planetary wide storm to revive all the Asgardians on Earth (Thor Vol. 3 #6).

4: Thor's wind attacks can even affect Surtur (Thor #177).

5 - 6: Thor's storm can stop a planet-busting beam (Thor Annual 2001).

7 - 8: Thor's lightning kills/KOs the Void (Siege #4). I know Void is asking to be killed, but he can't "hold back" his durability so it is still an impressive feat.

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The Hammer Supreme: Mjolnir

Mjolnir is the mightiest weapon in all nine realms, and it can do much, much, more than just enhance Thor's striking power.

1: Mjolnir was forged in fires so hot they would melt the sun, and can shatter whole planets as easily as pebbles (Thor: God of Thunder #2). Now we know what it would take to damage Mjolnir, as well as more proof that Thor is easily a planet-buster with Mjolnir, even without the power of the Odinforce.

2 - 3: Thor can use Mjolnir to deflect powerful energy attacks, even those of the Destroyer (Thor Vol. 3 #5). This also serves as a great feat for Thor's reflexes.

4: Thor can use ranged hammer throws as an attack - they are powerful enough to oneshot a heavily amped Thing (Fear Itself #5). The hammer always returns to Thor.

5 - 6: Mjolnir can absorb, magnify, and redirect energy attacks (Avengers Vol. 1 Annual #8; Avengers #70).

7: Mjolnir can negate the mystical energy of even Cytorrak when sent spinning around a certain area (Thor #429).

8: Thor can use Mjolnir to channel his own divine might in the form of a "God Blast", powerful enough to scare a hungry Galactus away (Thor Vol. 1 #161).

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Conclusion & Strategy

I don't want to spoil too much of our strategy until my teammate Darth can make his post, but for now I'll say that I'm confident Thor can handle anything your team throws at us. He can tank your punches, absorb and redirect any energy attacks, and even power through Loki's hax - which seems to be the greatest threat on your team at the moment.

I'll save specific counters for later, but for now, I'm confident Loki won't be able to directly affect Thor heavily, and the moment Thor feels like Loki's magic is becoming more than a nuisance, he can nullify all mystical energy in the area with Mjolnir (as I showed above) or even strip Loki of all his immortal essence, killing him (Thor #432). Essentially, Loki really is no match for a serious Odinforce-powered Thor. As for Hal, I'm confident Thor has the speed to casually deflect or even absorb all his blasts and redirect them right back at him. Once Thor gets physical, his Skyfather level striking power should enable him to put Hal down with just a few strikes, while Hal really can't keep up with Thor in direct combat. I'm not too familiar with Stardust, so I won't say anything about him/her for now, other than the fact that I'm confident that, between MMH and Thor, we can put him/her down as well.

With that said, I'll end my opener here. I hope it's been a fun read. May the best team win!

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T4V!

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T4V

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#46 Edited by Kevd4wg (12512 posts) - - Show Bio

Stardust

No Caption Provided

An Introduction to Lambda Zero

Bio

As Herald for the world devourer, Galactus, Stardust found suitable worlds for her master to consume. She performed above her master's expectations as she would track down and destroy any inhabitants of a world that happened to escape the destruction, wiping out any trace of their civilization. Stardust first met Beta Ray Bill as Bill was trying to defend his people, the Korbinites, who happened to be the next target of Galactus. Their planet was eventually lost, but the remaining survivors had transferred their life essences into an orb that Beta Ray Bill would protect until he could find a new world for his people to inhabit. Stardust, however, had other plans as she hunted Beta Ray Bill. She was determined to wipe out the Korbinite's existence forever. The two engaged in battle and Bill would not fall knowing that he was the last hope for his people. Eventually, Stardust called upon his powers to open a dimensional gateway to banish Beta Ray Bill and his people into, but instead she unwittingly released a foe greater in power and evil than either have ever confronted. Asteroth was now let loose upon the universe, and it was up to both of them to stop her. Galactus, meanwhile, had repaired the damage done to a fallen Korbonite, Alpha Ray, and sent him to intercept Stardust and Beta Ray Bill. Stardust, knowing that Asteroth had to be banished from this plane of existence, used her immense cosmic abilities to create a black hole. Alpha Ray arrived just in time to deal a major blow to Asteroth and drove her into the black hole removing Asteroth as a threat. Stardust became a victim of her own creation as she could not escape the black hole's gravity and was consumed as well.

Credit Marvel Universe Wiki

Powers and Abilities

  • Superhuman Physicals
  • Energy Blasts
  • Regeneration
  • Phasing
  • Cosmic Senses
  • Time and Space manipulation

Damage Output

Strength

Stardust, while not a brick, has rather good physical strength and while it's not enough to out muscle OF Thor, he can certainly contend with MMH and hurt OF Thor.

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  • Scan 1: Overpowers Beta Ray Bill in a grapple, who is an equal to Thor and possibly stronger than MMH(Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #3)
  • Scan 2-3: Bullrushes Azeroth through a planet, destroying it. As durable as OF Thor and Martian Man Hunter are, I doubt they can tank Planet Busting attacks(Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #4)

Energy Attacks

Stardust likes to use energy blasts and while she has nothing as quantifiable as planet busting, she is still quite capable of harming MMH and OF Thor.

First off, Stardust can seemingly produce heat at a great level.

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Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #3

With a touch, Stardust makes Bill cry out in pain and keel over. This is extremely impressive because the issue before, Bill was casually chilling in a Star

Stormbreaker: the Saga of Beta Ray Bill #2
Stormbreaker: the Saga of Beta Ray Bill #2

So your team needs high temperature resistance to stop from being burned.

Other than just burning, Stardust can create huge releases of energy that will be able to damage both MMH and OF Thor

Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #3
Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #3

Bill's blocking of Stardust's energy blast makes a huge explosion, seemingly dwarfing the planets in the background. Obviously the planets were large then they appeared, but this explosion was gigantic, at least moon level imo. This also doubles as a durability feat since Stardust tanked the attack.

Durability

While Stardust is a heavy hitter, that does not mean she is a glass cannon. Stardust is insanely durable, partly due to other abilities that help him.

For starters, Stardust is borderline immune to blunt-force as can be seen when Beta Ray Bill bullrushed her through a planet and Stardust reformed in seconds

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Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #3

As you can see, Bill quickly reformed(there are a few pages in between, but it didn't take long). In Fact, Stardust even took the initial planet busting in his weaker form until Bill slammed him with Stormbreaker, which forced him to reveal his true form.

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  1. Stardust explains to Bill that she basically can't be killed through Blunt-Force, she will just reconstitute like after the planet busting explosion(Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #4)
  2. Stardust phases through energy attacks(Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #3)

While this may seem like a bit of an NLF, it at least applies to the characters in this match as she has tanked an attack from Freaking Galactus

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Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #1

This is extremely impressive, especially since Beta Ray Bill was Koed by the same attack. While Stardust does not share the same energy durability, she still can tank massive explosions

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Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #3

Versatility

Stardust posses a large amount of versatility for the few appearances she has.

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  1. Stardust absorbs the last of her people, who are made of energy. This means she can absorb energy attacks(Annihilation: Heralds of Galactus #1)
  2. Stardust makes a portal to another dimension to draw away Bill's energy attack, something she can do with MMH's or Thor's energy as well(Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #3)
  3. If Stardust needs to, she can always create a Black Hole and suck people in(Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #4)

Speed

Stardust is very fast, probably the fastest person on the field.

Annihilation: Heralds of Galactus #1
Annihilation: Heralds of Galactus #1

Here it is revealed that Stardust's civilization is able to manipulate radio waves, which travel at light speed, into structures that last for only Picoseconds. For reference there are 1,000 picoseconds in a nano-second and light moves about a foot in a nano-second. This is clear cut MFTL speed for Stardust and that's before she got the Power Cosmic so she should easily be capable of keeping up with or even blitzing MMH and OF Thor.

Preliminary Countrers

I'm not going to go into too much detail, but just a few things.

Strength

4: Thor casually crushes the indestructible metal uru (Mighty Thor Vol. 2 #12) into dust with his sheer grip strength (Journey Into Mystery #94).

Except the durability of Uru was nowhere near as well established in the classic days, I mean just look at this scan from Journey into Mystery 92

No Caption Provided

Thor just straight up carves a brand new mjolnir out of uru with his fingers and it works just as good as Mjolnir. Obviously Mjolnir is way more than just normal Uru and Thor can't carve it out with his fingers, but it goes to show that Uru was basically just special rock in Classic Marvel.

5: While in a friendly arm-wrestling match, Thor and Hercules generate enough force to not just shatter an entire plateau, but knock the entire planet out of orbit (Thor#400) - a casual planetary level feat.

It was him combined with the force of Hercules that threw the planet off orbit. It's not casual since for one he was straining and two it was produced in a collision of forces.

Nevertheless, I will say that Stardust has the force to contend with and even beat normal Thor as she overpowered Beta Ray Bill, however she does lack the strength to match OF Thor.

Striking

1: Thor puts Pre-Sakaar Hulk on the ground with just a few strikes (Hulk: Let The Battle Begin).

To be fair, he did hit Hulk once more on the page before and it's not like he really damaged Hulk considering what happened next page

2: Thor can literally shatter worlds (note the plural) with the shockwaves of his strikes, not even directly striking them (Thor: God of Thunder #9). I know this is often lowballed as not a planet-busting feat, but it clearly is since the narration specifies Thor is breaking worlds, and the relevant definition of a world from the Oxford Dictionary is "another planet like the earth".

The shattering of worlds is a clearly just being used as a battle descriptor. They were actually moons orbiting the planet Gorr and Thor were fighting on. Notice how Thor says "that's no empty moon." Also this is the max of Thor's striking, he was basically breaking his arms with these hits

5: Odinforce Thor breaks Surtur's hand with a strike (Thor Vol. 3 # 8). The fact he can hurt a Skyfather should prove he won't have trouble beating anyone on your team.

Yeah, Surtur wasn't operating at his normal Skyfather levels at the time evidenced by the fact that non Odin-Force Odin(Who is a teambuster at most) was killing him every single day.

Durability

1 - 3: Thor tanks being blitzed at MFTL speeds by Deathseed Sentry, and then tanks a blow which shakes an entire world (Uncanny Avengers Vol. 1 #10).

And yet, Stardust has planet busted, which is a lot more than shaking a planet

6: Thor survives energy attacks from Celestials (Thor #300).

This is an honest outlier. Even with the OF in JMS's run Thor, much less normal Thor, was not operating with close to Skyfather level durability, much less Abstract level.

7: Thor withstands a mental/TP attack which even Moondragon cannot fight against (Avengers #138).

Cool. However the major telepath in this battle is on your team.

Speed

Yeah, we all know the "Slowdinson" jokes floating throughout the Vine. However, Thor is actually pretty quick and has both the reflexes and travel speed to keep up with anyone else in this battle.

No he doesn't. Look, Thor's speed can be lowballed at times sure, but don't act like Thor has FTL combat speed consistently. He's Slowdinson for a reason.

1: Thor can fight at FTE speeds (Journey Into Mystery #125).

Which is like street tier speeds.

2: Thor has microsecond level combat speed since he can punch and catch his hammer in the space of microseconds (Thor #144).

Which he's never replicated again! Plus doing something in the span of microseconds means nothing when all of our team is FTL, which is literally thousands of times faster.

3: Thor can move Mjolnir at FTL speeds (Thor #140).

Cool, I guess. Honestly not sure how this will help Thor with his speed disadvantage. It's not like he can control Mjolnir flying around the battlefield at FTL speeds, he's just spinning it in a circle.

4: Thor deflects Iron Man's repulsor rays, showing FTL reflexes (Avengers Vol. 3 #3).

Iron Man's repulsor rays are simply not consistently LS-FTL in any way, which CIB will expand upon.

5: Thor can fly at FTL speeds (Thor #185).

Travel speed doesn't show that Thor can fight or react at these speeds.

Weather Manip

2 - 3: Odinforce Thor creates a planetary wide storm to revive all the Asgardians on Earth (Thor Vol. 3 #6).

You left out the part where it knocked him unconcious

Same issue
Same issue

4: Thor's wind attacks can even affect Surtur (Thor #177).

It doesn't really though. Surtur was back up in seconds.

Mjolnir

1: Mjolnir was forged in fires so hot they would melt the sun, and can shatter whole planets as easily as pebbles (Thor: God of Thunder #2). Now we know what it would take to damage Mjolnir, as well as more proof that Thor is easily a planet-buster with Mjolnir, even without the power of the Odinforce.

Come on. We shouldn't take hyperbolic statements like that as facts and unless you got some other really good feats, Thor is not a casual planet buster without the OF.

This also serves as a great feat for Thor's reflexes.

Speed for the Destroyer's energy beam?

8: Thor can use Mjolnir to channel his own divine might in the form of a "God Blast", powerful enough to scare a hungry Galactus away (Thor Vol. 1 #161).

This is really out of character for Thor to do. In all of his 2500+ appearances, I can count on my hand the number of times he's used a godblast.

Initial Considerations

Stardust is probably the fastest person on the battlefield and with the ability to have planetary bullrushes she will be laying the hurt on some people. Additionally, Stardusts's energy manipulation and versatility will serve as a good way to run interference and protect our team.

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#47 Posted by Kevd4wg (12512 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by blackspidey2099 (6510 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Posted by EmpressOfDread (12367 posts) - - Show Bio

This CAV is going to be full of long ass posts which would remind of my physics days. Oh I have a headache already.