2v2 Teambuster HoF CaV: Mordru/Larfleeze vs. Darkseid/Krona

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Veshark

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#1  Edited By Veshark

Mordru & Larfleeze

The Dark Lord & Agent Orange
The Dark Lord & Agent Orange
No Caption Provided

Darkseid & Krona

God of Evil & The Renegade Guardian
God of Evil & The Renegade Guardian

Conditions

  • Win by KO, Incap, or Death (Permanent BFR is disallowed)
  • In-character
  • Both teams have basic knowledge on all combatants and basic teamwork
  • Mordru is Composite Post-Crisis (All Post-CoIE feats from all incarnations are allowed)
  • Larfleeze is Composite Post-Crisis/Post-Flashpoint
  • Darkseid is Composite Post-Crisis/Post-Flashpoint
  • Krona is Composite Pre-Crisis/Post-Crisis (Sans JLA/Avengers crossover)

Posting Order

All debaters must follow this order; if you have a point of contention to raise, either wait your turn or address it in the group PM. As agreed, this debate will have a Four-Round Limit. When the last round is complete, we will go straight to voting. Each round will follow this order:

  1. HigherPower (Krona)
  2. Chimeroid (Darkseid)
  3. Veshark (Mordru)
  4. EmperorThanos- (Larfleeze)

Battleground: Warworld

No Caption Provided
  • Warworld is uninhabited
  • Both teams start at 50 miles distance from one another

Four of the most-powerful transcendent-tier teambusters in all of DC Comics!

Four of the deadliest cosmic foes of the Green Lantern Corps and the Legion of Super-Heroes!

Four seasoned debaters from the Battle Boards' Hall of Fame!

Let the All-Villain Showdown...Commence!

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ProfessorRespect

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Tag for first posts, and for voting.

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deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15

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Woah. This is going to be one of the best debates in CV history. Tag me after every damn posts

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Kevd4wg

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#4 Kevd4wg  Online

Dis gon be gud

Tag after every post pls

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Jmarshmallow

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Absolutely T4every post.

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EmpressOfDread

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#6  Edited By EmpressOfDread

Ah, this might finally dial down the Darkseid lowballing and putting him at herald level or Superman level.

T4V. And after every post, if you don't mind.

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Darth_Nimrod

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Au_141

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Tag. This is the most interesting thing on the Vine in a while

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felgrim

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vsw

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Tag after every post

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Hypnos0929

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Tag after each post

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deactivated-5c443c2a6994d

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The_Badman

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T4V like hell

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emperorthanos-

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#14 emperorthanos-  Moderator  Online

Bump for voters

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WollfMyth209

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Cerberus369616

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Itachus17

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#17  Edited By Itachus17

T4V.

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No Caption Provided

Definitely tag me after every post please!

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#20  Edited By HigherPower

And so it begins...

Introduction to Krona — The Renegade Guardian

No Caption Provided

Preamble

First order of business: I'll briefly go over Krona's background and origins, followed by his powers and capabilities. Then I'll disclose the feats that we all came here to see, and elucidate the role he plays here.

Krona was an Oan (or a Maltusian), a race of immortal beings who became known as the Guardians. Krona was a brilliant scientist who obsessed over finding out the secrets of his people, particularly their genesis at the beginning of the universe. His ambitions were dangerous and he nearly destroyed the universe with a device that he used to peer back into time. Because of this and his refusal to conform, Krona was ostracized by his people and punished, being locked in a disembodied state inside an energy prison and set adrift for 10 billion years. Krona has immense psionic abilities, and his power level throughout his publication has been consistently that of which warrants a teambuster status.

General Showings

Krona's first appearance was in Green Lantern (1960) #40. The beginning of the issue sees Alan Scott leaving a Gotham Broadcasting party with his trusty man Friday, Doiby Dickles. After they get into Doiby's taxi the Goitrude, a radio broadcast interrupts the trip and alerts them of a meteor about to hit the city. Alan transforms and blasts the meteor with his power ring, and moments later he discovers his weakness to wood has been removed (Doiby crashed into a tree and Alan saved him).

Unable to keep the good news to himself, Alan travels to Earth-One to meet his Green Lantern counterpart Hal Jordan. But when Alan's weakness returned, Hal advised him to question his power ring directly about the occasion—after which it's revealed that the meteorite was never a meteor, but rather a being named Krona in an energy packet. He was placed there by the Oans 10 billion years prior, as punishment for after nearly destroying the universe when he constructed a device to see his people's origin at the beginning of time.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

The last three scans pretty much sum up the following events. Krona escaped his energy containment and hitchhiked on to Alan's ring for a ride to Earth-One, where he would be able to assume his bodily form and see his former glory.

Fast forward to part three of the issue. Krona's presence on Earth alone was causing widespread natural and unnatural disasters, which Alan and Hal tried to combat. Afterwards, we get to see some of Krona's quick thinking and powers. The mental defenses Krona had set up earlier to stop the Guardians from locating him kicked in.

No Caption Provided

When Krona's mental defenses alerted him of the Guardian's presence on Earth, Krona set out and located Alan and Hal by tuning on the vibrations of their power beams. Krona subsequently makes use of his stupendous mental control over matter to convert his body into pure energy, and he then possess Alan Scott almost instantly. After that, Krona TP'd the Guardians, mind controlling them to tell Hal to give up his mantle as Green Lantern to Alan (which was him).

No Caption Provided

This is a great showing for his matter manip, possession and telepathy all in one fell swoop. But what's more is that Krona was able to use his mental-force (what I think is just a blanket term for psionic abilities like TP and TK) to reproduce Alan's Scott's Lantern ring. Even without basic knowledge on his opponents (Krona knew nothing about Hal or Alan when he formulated this plan), Krona has shown to be exceptionally cunning, so I don't see anything stopping him possessing Larfleeze and/or duplicating his ring.

No Caption Provided

Alan's disembodied mental state contacted Hal, then Alan went inside Hal's ring and they pooled their willpower together. This gave them a boost and abolished Hal's weakness to yellow, which caught Krona off guard. Eventually they were able to knock him down, weakening/dazing him. This broke Krona's telepathic bind over the Guardians, causing them to destroy his device and lock him inside energy once more, casting him on an orbit that never intersected any planet or star. Overall a pretty decent showing for his versatility and cunning, and keep in mind this was his absolute weakest version and first appearance.

Krona returns in Tales of the Green Lantern Corps (1981) as an agent of Nekron. Nekron released him from his energy prison, restoring his original form and making him much more powerful than he was before in the process. (Composite Pre-52 means the feats apply).

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Tales of the Green Lantern Corps #2

In this miniseries, Krona's objective was to shrink the universe until it reverted to the primal atom it was before the Big Bang, effectively destroying all it had come to be. He had great feats of physicality in this story arc, seeing as he was able to no-sell the combined attacks from dozens of Green Lanterns including Pre-Crisis Hal. In addition to no-selling their attacks, he was stomping them in droves and just generally beating the shit out of them.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Tales of the Green Lantern Corps #2

At one point, Hal absorbed the willpower energy of all the Lanterns in his vicinity into his own ring, and he blasts Krona at absolute full power, only for Krona to laugh it off and tear the blast half.

No Caption Provided

Then Krona just casually pimp slapped him like fodder.

No Caption Provided

It was explicitly stated multiple times that 3600 Lanterns were assembled in this arc (the whole corps at the time).

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Tales of the Green Lantern Corps #1

While several of them were killed in the explosion of the Central Power Battery in the first issue, and many more in the battle against Krona's minions, it's still safe to say that a large number of Lanterns were active. They split into three teams, so at the very least there were dozens of Lanterns fighting Krona on Planet Oa. That logic is actually supported by this scan, where the remaining Lanterns come and discover their fallen comrades on Oa that were bested by Krona, who are strewn across the planets surface.

No Caption Provided

Hal alone already had planet busting energy projection in this era, as he destroyed a planet accidentally in Justice League of America Vol. 1 (1960) #140 after his beam ricocheted off the magnetized moon in it's orbit.

No Caption Provided

So Krona no-selling and overpowering a blast from him + every Lantern in the vicinity (which was dozens on the bare minimum) is extremely impressive. That and the fact he Ko'd and battered all the Lanterns, among them being the brand new Lantern Arisia...

No Caption Provided

...who previously was able to completely no-sell being inside the core of a red giant star along with fellow Lantern Tomar.

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Tales of the Green Lantern Annual #1

Krona kicks it up a notch in the third issue where he fights the Guardians directly. He actually grabs one of the Gurdians and straight up strips their life-force, leaving them dead on the spot.

No Caption Provided

Considering the Oan's immortality and age, this is a one-shot hax if I've ever seen one. Wouldn't you agree?

Trinity

These next set of feats will be from Krona was in possession of creation-point energy. At the end of the JLA/Avengers crossover, when Krona was defeated he was sealed into a cosmic egg that imprisoned him. The egg was later stolen by Despero, and in Trinity #17,Despero, Enigma and Morgaine Le Fay used it as a conduit to summon power in attempts to warp reality. The spell failed and Krona escaped the Egg with that power.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Krona in this form could increase his size to dwarf planets significantly, and was strong enough to casually tear them asunder.

No Caption Provided
Trinity (2008) #49
Trinity (2008) #49

I think I'll conclude my post here for now. I want this image of Krona ripping Earth apart while smiling with his bare hands to be the last image burned in your brain. Krona has a lot more feats in Trinity, Brightest Day, War of the Green Lanterns and when he was a being of Entropy that I haven't touched up on yet, so save your ooh's and ahh's for my following posts in the debate.

In Summation

To recap, Krona has

  • Mind control and hypnosis that worked on Oans/Guardians who are known for their vast psionic capabilities
  • He can possess people
  • He can duplicate Lantern rings
  • He can manipulate his own matter to turn his body into pure energy
  • Is immortal so can't be aged or anything of the sort
  • Has the durability to no-sell a focused blast from Hal Jordan + at least dozens of Green Lanterns at absolute full power, for context Pre-Crisis Hal has one-shotted planets accidentally
  • Beat up dozens of Lanterns with his bare hands, and fodder Lanterns like Arisia in the same arc no-sold being inside the core of a red giant star (the pressure of which is much greater than planetary)
  • Can set up powerful mental defenses that stopped even the Guardians from locating him
  • Can break open planets like eggs like he did to Earth in trinity
  • Can instantly one-shot anyone he touches by stripping their life force, worked on an immortal

Based on these sample feats I'd already say Larfleeze is a bad match-up for him. He's plow through his constructs and could possess him and take his ring if he's not careful. Mordru's is in the same spot as far as physicals go.

But good luck to my opponents and may the best team win :)

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vsw

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That was quick, excellent post tho

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Kevd4wg

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#23 Kevd4wg  Online

Pre Crisis is in this? This just got even more wild

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Jmarshmallow

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What a great start, this is gonna be dope.

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WollfMyth209

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Fire opener, tbh. Can't wait to see more.

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Rac95

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T4V and after each post please

Also please excuse my lack of knowledge, but what does the HoF mean?

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NiteLite

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T4V please.

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blackpantherisb

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Tag after every post.

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vsw

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@rac95: HoF means hall of Fame. Every Year we basically get to Vote 5 of the best debators you think are on the site into the hall of fame.

This match is taking place with 4 of them

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Au_141

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Can I get tagged after every post too?

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#32 emperorthanos-  Moderator  Online
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#34  Edited By Chimeroid

Darkseid

"What will you do when your friends, your enemies, your lover, are all Darkseid? When there is one body. One mind. One Will. One Lifethat is Darkseid. Will you be the enemy of all existence, then?"

No Caption Provided

I feel everyone and their mother knows who Darkseid is so i will, kind of, skip the Biography part and rest on the databook entry:

No Caption Provided

However, this entry does note several important facts that i will mention later in the post.

Physical Stats

I want to be perfectly clear, aside from durability,i don't believe that anyone's physical stats will be the deciding factor in a battle of this magnitude. Darkseid is not someone who likes getting his hands dirty. In most situations he will either employ his energy blasts, his technology, or his armies. However, on the off chance that this fight does get physical (since Mordru does enjoy getting down and dirty from time to time) Darkseid would definitely reign supreme.

Strength

No Caption Provided

I know a lot of people consider Darkseid to be at a "herald" level in stats, and only has his Omega Beams to differentiate himself. However, that is not true. Take for example Superman, the perfect example of DC's Herald tier. While he can contend with Darkseid, he is not as strong as him. In fact, Darkseid put him down in two punches.

No Caption Provided

Of course, that is far from being Darkseid's only notable strength feat. He has manhandled Orion (fused with Desaad, but to no detriment in terms of power), and many other opponents

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4
1. Handles Orion in 2 panels 2. His clash with Orion causes a huge explosion (it made other New Gods, such as Lightray run away) 3. Casually backhands Wonder Woman 4. Schools Mantis (who has feats of beating various Herald-Tiers)

Post-Flashpoint Feats:

In the New 52 continuity, Darkseid is not quite the same personality wise. Instead of just letting his armies fight for him (which he still does) he actually seems to enjoy physical combat.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

So, for that reason, he finally has the strength feats he deserves, such as straight up overpowering the planet lifting New 52 Superman and fighting physically with Anti-Monitor.

Speed:

No Caption Provided

Darkseid is not a speedster. It's simply not the way he fights. However, he has reacted to really fast opponents and has feats of acting in micro, and even nanoseconds.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5
1. Steals a portion of the Anti Life Entity and escapes within a single microsecond 2. Travels to the edge of the universe with Highfather at "unimaginable speeds" 3. Casually leaves while Diana is trying her best to speed to him 4.5. Speed blitzes Superman

Post Flashpoint Feats

I will close with two very simple reaction feats from the New 52/ Rebirth Continuity

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

As you can see, neither Val Zod, nor Powergirl were fast enough to blitz Darkseid.

The other showing comes from Wonder Woman's solo, when a weaker, younger Darkseid was fighting Zeus.

I've Seen Battle, Steve .... But NOTHING THIS FAST
I've Seen Battle, Steve .... But NOTHING THIS FAST

So, Diana, who has seen Flash and Superman in action, has never seen anything as fast as Darkseid rushing in to attack Zeus.

Durability

No Caption Provided

Darkseid's durability is legitimately insane and it has always been such. For example, he literally, by every definition of the word, no sells attacks from Lobo

No Caption Provided

Let's not forget that Lobo is pretty much a Superman level character in strength. I mean, he has taken out Shazam in a punch. He even threw an enemy that has a mass of a star. And, with all of that, we was utterly unable to make Darkseid flinch.

Darkseid also has feats of resisting vast amounts of energy projection. For example, in the Countdown to Final Crisis, he has tanked a prolonged full-power blast from Orion's Astro Force.

No Caption Provided

Darkseid spoke confidently through the blast, all it accomplished was slightly pushing him back.

Post Flashpoint Feats

In the New 52, Darkseid is still a beast of his own level.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4
1.2. Tanked Blasts from Anti-Life Empowered Anti-Monitor 3.4. Tanked blasts and attacks from Zeus

So, it goes without saying that Darkseid's durabiltiy transcends the level of Heralds. Why? Well, a fully charged Ultra Man (who just ate a pound of Kryptonite, which is the equivalent of SunDipping for him) was utterly deleted by a Nerfed Mobius

Naturally, he has a ton of feats i could o off, but, i will leave the durability at this for now.

Abilities

While I went relatively in depth showing feats for every section in his physical stats, posting actual images for Darkseid's abilities could last for a lot longer than any of us are willing to spend. The Omega Beams are so incredibly useful that the list of Darkseid's abilities goes on and on.

Darkseid wields the Omega Force. The destructive side of the Source which grants him a plethora of godlike abilities: (Shoutout to @masterkungfu, the second best Darkseid debater on the Vine)

  • Physical Augmentation - Darkseid can increase his own stats
  • Size Alteration
  • Corruption
  • Possession - Darkseid is able to transfer his consciousness into another individual or an inanimate object in the case of an unfortunate demise.
  • Telepathy
  • Telekinesis
  • Flight
  • Reconstitution
  • Matter Manipulation
  • Energy Manipulation
  • Energy Absorption
  • Energy Projection
  • Teleportation
  • Portal Creation
  • Reincarnation
  • Avatar Creation
  • Reality Awareness - Darkseid is fully aware of shifts made to space, time, reality and is likewise immune to the effects of such.
  • Time Manipulation - Darkseid is responsible for conducting events throughout the DC Multiverse plus retains memories of these occurrences.
  • Time Travel
  • Dimensional Travel
  • Planetary Consumption
  • Force Field Projection
  • Astral Manipulation
  • Soul Manipulation
  • Life Manipulation - Darkseid is able to grant life and death to individuals including raising the dead.
  • Resurrection
  • Summoning - Darkseid can call forth his army of Parademons, Shadow Demons, the Black Racer or other Apokoliptans when he needs to.
  • Cosmic Role - Darkseid holds an important status in the outcome of all creation.
  • Power Distribution
  • Power Absorption - Darkseid is able to steal the powers and abilities of his foes.
  • Power Reduction - In addition to granting power to others Darkseid is able to depower individuals too.
  • Power Negation - In addition to depowering individuals, Darkseid can completely shut off their powers too.
  • Omega Sanction - Darkseid is able to trap individuals in torturous nightmares forcing to live dark and twisted lives all in an instant repeatedly.
  • Omega Beams - This usual go-to-move for Darkseid is a force of entropy, a tool for warping reality commanded only by the Dark Lord himself. The Omega Effect combines many of the above abilities mentioned plus are able to follow locked on targets, zigzag, slow down, speed up, pass through barriers, modify frequency, used as a concussive attack or erase targets from existence in accordance with the Source. Darkseid doesn't always want to kill his opponents and prefers to have them serve him rather than be wasted.

Some Feats

A younger Darkseid, from when he just shed away the name Uxas, killed an older version of himself and held the Legion of Super Heroes immobilised.
A younger Darkseid, from when he just shed away the name Uxas, killed an older version of himself and held the Legion of Super Heroes immobilised.

This is the list of all heroes he held in place.

Soul Manipulation

Revival Ability

Omega Beams - Entrapment

He has used his omega beams to trap and hold still Infinity Man and Superman even as they try to battle the effects.

Omega Beams - Incinerating

Omega Beams have a variety of uses, time manipulation, revival, depowering, and many others, but, the most common use, and the one that people like seeing the most is the damaging aspect of the beams.

No Caption Provided

I should also mention that Agogg, the being he just destroyed, was no pushover. He has soundly beaten Orion with little to no difficulty in the same issue.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

In the New 52, he didn't exactly become any weaker. Just as my ally in this fight has done, I will close up the story about feats with a planetary destruction showing:

No Caption Provided

Join us again in the next episode, where I will cover the armies at Darkseid's disposal.

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#37  Edited By vsw

very, very cool

Edit: Darksied Gets his Army? Awsome

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#39  Edited By Veshark

Round One

The Dark Lord
The Dark Lord

Primer

Mordru is the definitive Lord of Chaos in the DC Universe. What that means is that unlike mere human sorcerers like Dr. Strange or Zatanna; Mordru is a literal force of nature, an eternal entity who has existed before the Big Bang, and who possesses godlike powers that make him one of the most powerful magic-users this side of the Spectre.

With his vast plethora of abilities, Mordru has consistently fought and defeated entire rosters of experienced superheroes with minimal effort. He’s singlehandedly thrashed the JSA and the Legion of Super-Heroes countless times; teams with 15+ members and herald-tier heroes like Alan Scott, Superman, Dr. Fate, Captain Marvel, and the Thunderbolt among their ranks.

For the purposes of this debate, I will be using a Composite Mordru with feats taken from all of his post-Crisis on Infinite Earths appearances. This includes Mordru’s showings from various timelines, as well as various time-periods.

With that disclaimer out of the way, I’ll open my argument with two simple points that will establish Mordru’s capabilities in this battle.

1. Mordru, the Sorcerer

Let me begin by stating the obvious: magic is an extremely “hax” powerset. When a comic-book supervillain is a sorcerer, what that usually implies is that their powers allow them to do virtually anything they want. And Mordru is one of the most powerful sorcerers—if not the most powerful—in the entire DCU.

It would be pointless for me to list Mordru’s abilities because he is, in short, capable of doing anything that he desires. Anything you can name, Mordru can likely do, and his magic is only limited by the scope of his imagination. This is proven with the breadth of powers that Mordru has shown in his appearances, but it’s best summarized with his official bio entries:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

You could pore through these entries in more detail, but I’ll just quote the relevant highlights from each one for my point:

  1. “[Mordru’s] powers are immeasurable and he seems capable of anything he can imagine
  2. “Mordru is one of the ultimate masters of black magic, which he is able to use to bend virtually any force in the universe to his will…”
  3. “[Mordru] is a sorcerer of incalculable power…”

In short, Mordru’s magic allows him to do virtually anything he wants. Now, there are two important conclusions to draw from this; the first is that Mordru has far superior combat versatility to either Darkseid or Krona. Both aliens have pretty diverse powersets, but the Dark Lord's magic still trumps their powers with the sheer number of combat options he has.

The second conclusion is this: Any powers that Krona or Darkseid possess--Mordru can most likely replicate or do better.

I won’t run down every single feat you two have shown for your team, especially those regarding physicals, as none of our characters (by your own concession, Chimeroid) are particularly reliant on fisticuffs. Instead, I’ll focus specifically on the primary powers that your team has highlighted, just to prove that Mordru is their equal, if not superior.

Energy-Form and Possession

Mordru, as a Lord of Chaos, is already an incorporeal being of living energy. I’d also argue that he has greater control over his energy-form than Krona, given Krona was twice converted into pure energy by the Guardians, and was still unable to escape his energy form without external aid on both occasions. Point being, Krona’s “stupendous mental control over matter” doesn’t seem all that stupendous.

Anyway, Mordru can also possess his opponents in his astral form:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

His astral form (which is undetectable to the naked eye) allowed him to take possession of Dr. Fate without any effort. Now granted, this is Kent V. Nelson (the grand-nephew of the original Fate), so he’s not as powerful, but given that neither Krona nor Darkseid have any mystical defenses to my knowledge, I don’t see that being much of an issue.

Soul-Manipulation

Like most sorcerers, Mordru is extremely adept at manipulating souls. After the Legionnaire Kinetix was vaporized by Superboy-Prime…

No Caption Provided

…Mordru was able to absorb her essence, imprisoning her soul within himself and stealing all of her knowledge/memories, as well as her powers. Which I’d argue is frankly a more impressive and practical control of souls than the feats you’ve shown for Darkseid.

Revival Ability

Your Darkseid feat seems nebulous at best. I’m not familiar with the context, but based on that one page, it doesn’t seem as though Darkseid used any power to revive his Parademons. He's not manipulating any energy; there's nothing explicitly mentioned in the narration. It just looks like as undead cyborgs, Parademons are programmed to keep fighting for Darkseid, despite suffering extended damage.

Regardless, here’s Mordru reviving the Legion of Super-Villains after absorbing the magic of an entire universe and draining the Legionnaires:

No Caption Provided

It's also worth noting that this feat also doubles as another soul-manipulation feat for Mordru. In addition to absorbing Kinetix's soul, Mordru also succeeds in imprisoning and absorbing the powers of all the sorcerers of Universe-247. The White Witch explicitly mentions in Panel 3, "I hear the souls of the mages he now possesses cry out from their prison within him."

Matter-Manipulation

I know you listed matter-manipulation as one of Darkseid's powers, but unless I missed something, I don't see a feat depicting this particular power. As for Krona, he possesses decent matter-manipulation, but based on what you’ve shown, it pales in comparison to what Mordru can accomplish with his magic:

No Caption Provided

Yup, Mordru basically just one-shotted Alan Scott by transmuting him into wood with a single hit. He also transmutes Starman's Cosmic Staff into a living snake, essentially giving life and agency to an inanimate object.

Krona tanking a hit from an amped Hal Jordan (Your claim of Hal being planet-busting seems like questionable scaling, given the 20-year gap between Silver-Age Hal and Bronze-Age Hal, but alright) and Darkseid tanking the Astro-Force are both great, but what good is physical durability against mystical transmutation that defies the very laws of physics?

You mentioned that Krona has a “one-shot hax” with his life-drain ability, but I’d argue that Mordru’s matter-manipulation is a far more impressive one-shot skill. 1) Mordru’s transmutation spell is instantaneous and operates at the speed-of-thought 2) Mordru’s spell can be fired from a distance and does not require physical contact and 3) Mordru as an eternal entity is immune to life-drain, while Krona and Darkseid have zero defenses against mystical transmutation.

Based on the feats you both have shown, what’s stopping Mordru from just one-shotting Krona and Darkseid with matter-manipulation, and ending the battle right there?

Planet-Busting/Energy-Manipulation

Since you two have both posted planet-buster feats for Krona and Darkseid, allow me to oblige:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Krona could only destroy a planet after receiving an amp that increased his power significantly. Regular Mordru destroyed a planet without any power upgrades whatsoever.

With my summary of Mordru's capabilities complete, let me move on to my second point...

2. Mordru can’t be killed

To my knowledge, Mordru has never been killed in battle. He has been BFRed and imprisoned in powerful mystical prisons (like the Amulet of Anubis or the Rock of Eternity), but as a Lord of Chaos, Mordru can’t actually die:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

The first scan depicts how Hourman tried to devolve Mordru, but his time-manipulation powers failed to have any effect on the Dark Lord, due to Mordru being an eternal entity. Hence, why Krona's life-drain power will not work here.

The second scan features Cutter, the creator of the Amulet of Anubis (he's actually Child, a minion of Mordru in disguise--long story), explaining to Dr. Fate (Hector Hall) about the origins of Mordru, but I'll summarize the exposition from these two showings:

Mordru has existed before the universe was created. Mordru’s timeline has no beginning or end, and he is fated to survive the death of the universe and even after the end of all time. He was never born, which means he will never die.

In conclusion, as an undying Lord of Chaos:

1.Mordru has the greatest degree of combat experience: He has existed before the universe began and his lifespan extends even past the end of time. Mordru is older than both Darkseid and Krona—two of the oldest extraterrestrials in the DCU—put together.

2.Mordru is incorporeal: He doesn’t have a true physical body. As a being of living energy, he can’t be harmed permanently through physical means. What this means is that you can’t defeat Mordru by Death or KO, so how will your team win exactly?

3.Mordru has never died: Krona can be killed (War of the Green Lanterns), as can Darkseid (Death of the New Gods, Final Crisis, Darkseid War), but Mordru has never actually died. How is your team going to defeat an eternal entity who can’t be destroyed? And given neither Krona nor Darkseid are particularly adept with the world of magic, how will they even win via Incap by imprisoning the Dark Lord?

With these two simple points finished, I'll conclude my post with our...

Opening Strategy

You’ve both listed the laundry-list of abilities that Krona and Darkseid possess, but none of that ultimately matters if your team can’t apply all those powers into a cohesive, foolproof strategy. With that said, noting both Mordru and Larfleeze will have knowledge on their opponents as well as teamwork with one another, our team’s strategy consists of four steps:

1. Energy-Sensing

The first step once the battle begins is for Mordru to use his energy-sensing abilities to immediately detect Krona and Darkseid’s location. Given that Krona has an energy-form, and Darkseid possesses the Omega Force (plus: both villains are extensive energy-manipulators), Mordru will detect your team’s position on Warworld instantaneously.

The mental defenses that Krona used to shield his location from the Guardians will be useless here, as Mordru’s sensory abilities are energy-based, not telepathic/brainwave-based. And as an energy entity himself, Mordru is extremely attuned to all forms of energy, as evidenced by the following feat:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Here, Mordru detects the Emerald Eye of Ekron’s energy from light years away, across the vast expanse of the universe. He is then able to immediately teleport himself directly to the Eye’s location. Since there’s only a mere 50-mile starting distance between our teams, Mordru will be able to home in on Krona and Darkseid’s location before your team can even make a move.

Once Mordru has detected your team, he will teleport himself and Larfleeze to an advantageous position near your team. Which will allow our team to surprise-attack with…

2. Battlefield Removal

That’s right, the battlefield removal. Now, the stipulations of this debate state that permanent BFR is disallowed, but nothing prevents our team from temporarily removing one of our opponents from Warworld. With that in mind, once my team materializes, Mordru will instantly BFR Krona into a pocket dimension.

Two key points to keep in mind here:

1. BFR is entirely in-character for Mordru: I want to emphasize that Mordru absolutely loves to BFR his opponents. In almost all his appearances, Mordru has temporarily BFRed at least one opponent during a battle. Much of Mordru’s magic revolves around a mastery of dimensions and realms, so it makes sense that this is a preferred tactic for the character.

2. Mordru’s combat speed/reaction time: Once Mordru teleports himself and Larfleeze to your team’s location, Krona will not have time to react or counter to the BFR. Mordru’s BFR spell will be instantaneous.

Both these points are clearly illustrated in this next showing:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Long story short, Mordru appears in front of the JSA and effectively BFRs the entire team before they can react, sending all seven members into seven separate pocket dimensions.

It’s important to not understate just how fast Mordru is here. Not only was Mordru able to “fire off nearly a dozen spells,” a feat that Kent V. Nelson doubts the original Fate would even be able to accomplish…

But Mordru also succeeds in BFRing two Speed Force users before they can even react. Not even counting the other JSA members’ reaction times (including Alan Scott, who has kept up with speedsters on his own), the fact that Mordru can do this to both Jay Garrick and Liberty Belle shows the incredible combat speed that the Dark Lord possesses with his spells.

Bear in mind, Wally West considered both Jay Garrick and Liberty Belle to be among the six fastest people alive in Pre-Flashpoint New Earth, too. And with Garrick, it’s not an isolated instance either. Mordru has been quicker on the draw against Jay multiple times, even when Jay is speeding straight towards him and not holding back:

Yet another example of Mordru's love of the BFR...
Yet another example of Mordru's love of the BFR...

In summation, if Mordru can do this to seven JSA members (including two speedsters), I have no doubt he’ll be able to pull the same trick against one Krona, before either member of your team can react. Especially given that neither Krona nor Darkseid will have anticipated this strategy. If the Guardians of the Universe could BFR Krona millennia ago, there’s really nothing stopping Mordru from doing the same thing here. And based on what you’ve shown, Krona has never displayed any knowledge about mystic pocket dimensions, so it’s doubtful he can formulate a way to escape.

Which brings me to the third step of our strategy…

3. Tag-Team

I’ll allow my partner to break this section down in more detail with his own post, but to briefly summarize: with Krona trapped in a pocket dimension with no means of escape, the battle becomes a 2v1 with Mordru and Larfleeze ganging up against Darkseid.

Or should I say, 200 versus 1, as Larfleeze can summon an entire Orange Lantern Corps!

Now, before you try, Darkseid does not have access to his armies here. I hope you're not suggesting that Darkseid's going to call in a swarm of Parademons with a Boom Tube. The Orange Lantern Corps is a preexisting extension of Larfleeze’s standard gear, aka his ring. Darkseid on the other hand, doesn’t just get to summon external combatants; this is Mordru/Larfleeze vs. Darkseid, not Mordru/Larfleeze vs. Darkseid and Apokolips. By that logic, Mordru can summon all the sorcerers from his own planet, the Sorcerers’ World, or his armies from the Mirabai Dimension:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And if you're suggesting that Darkseid can somehow summon the dead of Warworld, well, Mordru can just as easily do that too. In fact his minions, the Sons of Anubis, are basically just undead soldiers:

No Caption Provided

Okay, enough spoilers, I’ll leave this part to EmperorThanos.

4. Returning Krona

Finally, once Darkseid has been taken care of, Mordru will retrieve Krona from his prison in the pocket dimension and without his partner, Krona will find himself woefully outmatched against the combined power of Mordru and Larfleeze. Mordru could just hit the disoriented Oan with one of these:

No Caption Provided

Or maybe Mordru converts Krona into a harmless energy packet, which is technically a Win by Incap, and sends him hurtling through the cosmos...

And with that, I'll pass it over to my partner, @emperorthanos-.

@higherpower@chimeroid

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EmpressOfDread

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Can't wait to see Larfleeze's opener now.

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Kevd4wg

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#41 Kevd4wg  Online

Damn that was really fast and really good

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vsw

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Excellent Post.

Now I'm excited for ET's, but I guess we're gonna have to wait a month to see..... lol

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termiteone4ever

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Interesting

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emperorthanos-

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#44 emperorthanos-  Moderator  Online

@vsw said:

Excellent Post.

Now I'm excited for ET's, but I guess we're gonna have to wait a month to see..... lol

Hilarious.

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Pipxeroth

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Tag after every post please

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NiteLite

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WollfMyth209

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Very nice so far.

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Lvenger

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Terrific posts so far but Veshark's gave me a good feeling that this is going to be one for the CAV record books.

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Killerwasp

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#49  Edited By Killerwasp

TAG!!!!!!

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HitTheAssasin

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