2023 Winter Tag Tournament- Moondragon & Nova VS Invisible Woman & Human Torch

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Koays

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VS

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RULES-

  • Start 50ft apart
  • Random Encounter
  • Everyone is Peak
  • Win by Death or KO

MATCH-

R1- Invisible Woman vs Moondragon

R2- Human Torch vs Nova

R3- Bloodlusted 2v2

FIGHT HERE:

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ProfessorRespect

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R1- Invisible Woman vs Moondragon- Invisible Woman. I can buy she can at least block out TP to the extent that Moondragon would have to press to get anywhere, but at that point of doing so I think Sue would be able to handle the problem.

R2- Human Torch vs Nova- I'd say Nova, especially peak Nova Prime who was well above Torch's levels of potency. Rich can also take a hit as well unlike Johnny.

R3- Bloodlusted 2v2- Sue carries with the usual stuff if she doesn't get bullrushed by Rich's huge speed advantage

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PurplehairedNi1

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R1- Invisible Woman vs Moondragon- Invisible Woman. I can buy she can at least block out TP to the extent that Moondragon would have to press to get anywhere, but at that point of doing so I think Sue would be able to handle the problem.

R2- Human Torch vs Nova- I'd say Nova, especially peak Nova Prime who was well above Torch's levels of potency. Rich can also take a hit as well unlike Johnny.

R3- Bloodlusted 2v2- Sue carries with the usual stuff if she doesn't get bullrushed by Rich's huge speed advantage

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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#4  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan

R1: Sue stomps between her shields and willpower she should resist Moondragon's TP long enough to oneshot her

R2: Nova due to versatility and Torch holding back

R3: Sue and Johnny without too much difficulty

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Mage101

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@professorrespect said:

R1- Invisible Woman vs Moondragon- Invisible Woman. I can buy she can at least block out TP to the extent that Moondragon would have to press to get anywhere, but at that point of doing so I think Sue would be able to handle the problem.

R2- Human Torch vs Nova- I'd say Nova, especially peak Nova Prime who was well above Torch's levels of potency. Rich can also take a hit as well unlike Johnny.

R3- Bloodlusted 2v2- Sue carries with the usual stuff if she doesn't get bullrushed by Rich's huge speed advantage

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samgee

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R1- Invisible Woman vs Moondragon I do not know if Sue Shields reliable enough to stop her TP

R2- Human Torch vs Nova

R3- Bloodlusted 2v2 Undecided Come down to weather or not Moondragon is effective enough with her TP

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geekryan

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R1 goes to Moondragon, whose telepathy should be powerful enough to affect Sue through her force fields

R2 goes to Nova

R3 goes to Sue and Johnny

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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@geekryan: @samgee:

R1- Invisible Woman vs Moondragon I do not know if Sue Shields reliable enough to stop her TP

What makes it unreliable?

R1 goes to Moondragon, whose telepathy should be powerful enough to affect Sue through her force fields

How come? Recently Reed implied Sue's force field could prevent Xavier from entering his mind

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geekryan

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@geekryan: @samgee:

R1- Invisible Woman vs Moondragon I do not know if Sue Shields reliable enough to stop her TP

What makes it unreliable?

R1 goes to Moondragon, whose telepathy should be powerful enough to affect Sue through her force fields

How come? Recently Reed implied Sue's force field could prevent Xavier from entering his mind

Implication doesn't mean much, especially since it contradicts the events of X-Men/Fantastic Four.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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@geekryan:

Implication doesn't mean much, especially since it contradicts the events of X-Men/Fantastic Four.

Implications have a lot of weight when it comes from someone like Reed who's an expert on Sue's capabilities and how was it contradicted in X/4?

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geekryan

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@geekryan:

Implication doesn't mean much, especially since it contradicts the events of X-Men/Fantastic Four.

Implications have a lot of weight when it comes from someone like Reed who's an expert on Sue's capabilities and how was it contradicted in X/4?

Not that Reed isn't a reliable source, but feats > statements, and implications aren't always reliable.

Because they needed the suits to deal with telepathy.

As we have discussed in the past, I agree that Sue's force fields can block certain types of telepathy if she is expecting it, but I don't agree that she can block all forms of telepathy, especially from high tier telepaths. Moondragon is a high tier telepath.

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marvelfan1992

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R1 - no comment

R2 - Nova

R3 - F4

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Mooty_Pass

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#13  Edited By Mooty_Pass

R1- Invisible Woman vs Moondragon - Invisible Woman for the Win.

R2- Human Torch vs Nova - Nova for the Win.

R3- Bloodlusted 2v2 - Tough One. Team 2 for the win. If, Nova can take care Johnny fast enough, he can go help Moondragon and they can both just jump Sue.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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@geekryan:

Not that Reed isn't a reliable source, but feats > statements, and implications aren't always reliable

But isn't a feat where Sue is trying and fails to block his TP at best it's an implication

Because they needed the suits to deal with telepathy.

At best it was just an implication that Sue can't fend-off TP from multiple High-tier telepaths that were on Krakoa simultaneously plus the FF also wear special suits all the time for oxygen, ocean pressure, temperature regulation, ect which are all stuff several members can counter with their powers

As we have discussed in the past, I agree that Sue's force fields can block certain types of telepathy if she is expecting it, but I don't agree that she can block all forms of telepathy, especially from high tier telepaths. Moondragon is a high tier telepath.

And I agree but it's more likely that Moondragon would try a more generic/basic TP technique off the bat and she doesn't have any notable defenses to give her time to try different techniques

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marygcrisostomo

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@geekryan said:

R1 goes to Moondragon, whose telepathy should be powerful enough to affect Sue through her force fields

R2 goes to Nova

R3 goes to Sue and Johnny

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kasya_carey

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@geekryan said:
@scarlet_wiccan said:

@geekryan:

Implication doesn't mean much, especially since it contradicts the events of X-Men/Fantastic Four.

Implications have a lot of weight when it comes from someone like Reed who's an expert on Sue's capabilities and how was it contradicted in X/4?

Not that Reed isn't a reliable source, but feats > statements, and implications aren't always reliable.

Because they needed the suits to deal with telepathy.

As we have discussed in the past, I agree that Sue's force fields can block certain types of telepathy if she is expecting it, but I don't agree that she can block all forms of telepathy, especially from high tier telepaths. Moondragon is a high tier telepath.

Let them tell it the FF always wear helmets and suits everywhere they go

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geekryan

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@geekryan:

Not that Reed isn't a reliable source, but feats > statements, and implications aren't always reliable

But isn't a feat where Sue is trying and fails to block his TP at best it's an implication

Because they needed the suits to deal with telepathy.

At best it was just an implication that Sue can't fend-off TP from multiple High-tier telepaths that were on Krakoa simultaneously plus the FF also wear special suits all the time for oxygen, ocean pressure, temperature regulation, ect which are all stuff several members can counter with their powers

As we have discussed in the past, I agree that Sue's force fields can block certain types of telepathy if she is expecting it, but I don't agree that she can block all forms of telepathy, especially from high tier telepaths. Moondragon is a high tier telepath.

And I agree but it's more likely that Moondragon would try a more generic/basic TP technique off the bat and she doesn't have any notable defenses to give her time to try different techniques

I don't understand what you mean in your first sentence.

Except these suits were specifically stated to block telepathy, and were needed to do so. There was no implication about it being needed to fend off multiple high-tier telepaths. If Sue's force fields could block high tier telepathy, it shouldn't matter that it's coming from one or multiple opponents. That would also then imply that high tier telepathy could eventually break through her force field, which is an unsubstantiated claim.

And no, Moondragon consistently goes for psychic attacks and not stuff like mind control.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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#18  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan

@geekryan:

I don't understand what you mean in your first sentence.

I'm saying there isn't an example of Sue failing to block Xavier's TP at best the psi-proof armor was also just an implication she couldn't do it

Except these suits were specifically stated to block telepathy, and were needed to do so. There was no implication about it being needed to fend off multiple high-tier telepaths. If Sue's force fields could block high tier telepathy, it shouldn't matter that it's coming from one or multiple opponents. That would also then imply that high tier telepathy could eventually break through her force field, which is an unsubstantiated claim.

Wearing special suits is very common for the FF

Just recently they wore new suits that cover them with force fields that neutralize anti-matter yet in the same comic Sue's force field shields them from going through an anti-matter field and Johnny is naturally immune to anti-matter when flamed on

I mean given the number of telepaths on Krakoa Reed isn't familiar with the suits were the safest bet

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geekryan

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@geekryan:

I don't understand what you mean in your first sentence.

I'm saying there isn't an example of Sue failing to block Xavier's TP at best the psi-proof armor was also just an implication she couldn't do it

Except these suits were specifically stated to block telepathy, and were needed to do so. There was no implication about it being needed to fend off multiple high-tier telepaths. If Sue's force fields could block high tier telepathy, it shouldn't matter that it's coming from one or multiple opponents. That would also then imply that high tier telepathy could eventually break through her force field, which is an unsubstantiated claim.

Wearing special suits is very common for the FF

Just recently they wore new suits that cover them with force fields that neutralize anti-matter yet in the same comic Sue's force field shields them from going through an anti-matter field and Johnny is naturally immune to anti-matter when flamed on

I mean given the number of telepaths on Krakoa Reed isn't familiar with the suits were the safest bet

Because Xavier never tried to TP Sue...that isn't a feat against Xavier or a feat for Sue, implication or not.

Yes, but these specific suits were worn to protect them from telepathy.

Throughout the entire X-Men/Fantastic Four event, there was no implication or statement that Sue's force fields can block telepathy, hence why the suits were required.

And you didn't address this:

If Sue's force fields could block high tier telepathy, it shouldn't matter that it's coming from one or multiple opponents. That would also then imply that high tier telepathy could eventually break through her force field, which is an unsubstantiated claim.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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@geekryan:

Throughout the entire X-Men/Fantastic Four event, there was no implication or statement that Sue's force fields can block telepathy, hence why the suits were required.

But this would also be just an implication

If Sue's force fields could block high tier telepathy, it shouldn't matter that it's coming from one or multiple opponents. That would also then imply that high tier telepathy could eventually break through her force field, which is an unsubstantiated claim.

I could be wrong but the way I see it is like it is with most other attacks where she can block a certain degree of it before getting overwhelmed since the only example of her limit was when she could only lessen Over-Mind's psychic attack and couldn't completely block it so that would imply attacks of sufficient power would be too much to fully block out. There's a slight chance the next two FF issues will have a psychic villian so maybe there'll be new information