2023 Halloween-Themed Tourney Round 1: SirFizzWhizz vs Mr-Yes - OPEN FOR VOTES

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mr-yes

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#1  Edited By mr-yes

SirFizzWhizz

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Team

  • Luther Strode (Luther Strode) (5)
  • Alucard (Netflix Castlevania) (3)

Perks I

  • MCU Black Panther’s Suit (Strode) (3)
  • MCU Black Panther’s Suit (Alucard) (3)
  • Perfect Teamwork (3)
  • Mind Link (2)
  • Batman Martial Arts (1) (Strode)

Perks II

  • Jack o’ Lantern (8): Luther Strode
  • Black Cat’s Luck (2):

Item

  • Goblet of Power: Alucard

Mr-Yes

No Caption Provided

Characters:

  • Agent Venom (Ultimate Spider-Man T.V Series) (5)
  • Ghost (Iron Man Armored Adventures) (3)
  • Angor Rot (Trollhunters) (2)

Perks Set I:

  • 2 Extra Character Points (5)
  • Perfect Teamwork (3)
  • Mind Link (2)
  • 10 Minutes of Battlefield Prep (1)
  • Batman’s Martial Arts (1): Agent Venom

Perks Set II:

  • Jack o’ Lantern (8): Ghost
  • Black Cat’s Luck (2)

Item:

  • Ore of Skeletor

Rules:

  • Your Character MUST be Halloween Themed to some extent.
  • You MUST provide an in-depth RT, CaV, or some other means whereby I can thoroughly evaluate your character.
  • Cloning is limited to one clone with less or equal stats to the original. Once the clone is defeated, it’s defeated for the duration of the battle. No regenerating it. 5-pointers can NOT be cloned.
  • Summoning is limited to 20 fodder. Summons’ capabilities must be below that of a 1-pointer.
  • No amping above a character’s designated point value.
  • Supernatural Energies are equalized.
  • Regeneration is limited to individual body parts. Resurrection is limited to one time only (can stack with perks).
  • Reality Warping, Conceptual Hax, etc. is not allowed. All of that esoteric nonsense is banned.
  • Banned Abilities:
    • Time Manipulation
    • Probability/Luck/Chance Manipulation
    • Vector Manipulation
    • Internal Attacks
    • Unavoidable Attacks
    • One-Shot Attacks
    • Mind Control
    • BFR
    • Power/Item Stealing/Copying/Negation unless provided by a perk
    • This is subject to change - I may ban other abilities as they present themselves. As a general rule of thumb, don’t bring in anything that is nigh-impossible to counter. Note that you CAN use characters who have these abilities, but they will NOT be able to use them.
  • Victory is by KO or Death.
  • Rule Zero: I am the law. Any decision passed by me is final. I reserve the right to add any restrictions as I see fit.
  • Stay respectful at all times.
  • Voters must have over 500 posts.

Battlefield:

“Skeleton Expanse”
“Skeleton Expanse”
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mr-yes

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#2  Edited By mr-yes

@sirfizzwhizz: Good luck my friend. You can go first. Your Black Cat’s Luck perk:

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Angor Rot is unable to use his Creeper’s Sun Blade.

My Black Cat’s Luck perk:

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Alucard loses Black Panther’s Suit.

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sirfizzwhizz

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@mr-yes: I never knew Avent Venom was in a TV show.

I get a post up soon.

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ProfessorRespect

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tag for posts

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JaylinFreeman

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Please TAEP.

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Chronicplane

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TAEP.

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sirfizzwhizz

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#7  Edited By sirfizzwhizz

@mr-yes: Ok lets break down the dynamic duo.

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Luther Strode

The main hero of the short 18 issue series spanning 3 Graphic Novels. The Strange Talent of Luther Strode, The Legend of Luther Strode, and The Legacy of Luther Strode. Luther Strode is the story of a child who has unlock the super human abilities every human has through the knowledge of the book called "The Hercules Method". This book is the sum knowledge of the first known murderer Cain, who compiled years of knowledge in human body and arts of murder to unlock super human abilities. With these powers Luther decides to make the world a better place.

Perks

For perks Luther has the Black Panther MCU Armor. As most know, this is very insane buff for someone like Luther. Granting him way more resistance to blunt attacks, as well razor edge claws for slicing attacks.

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Being thrown nearly through a airport terminal does nothing for the suit.

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As seen falling thousands of feet at high speeds onto rail rods tracks does nothing to BP wearing this suit.

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Vibranium claws rip through thin sheet of steel like hot knives through butter. There is also the massive shockwave attack Luther can preform if the suit gets juiced enough in kinetic energy.

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A total nightmare for any of your characters in combat. Also acts as a emergency GTHO move for any possible bad scenario.

Another major perk is the Jack-o-Lantern perk which makes Luther immune to any non physical attack period. Energy attacks will do nothing, you have to physically hit him with bullets, tendrils, or fists. The worst place to be is close combat and this perk with the MCU Vibranium Armor forces one to get into Luther's sweet spot.

Last main perk is the Batman skills. Luther is very skilled martial artist on his own. Decently so. Now he is a super undisputed fictional fighter genius, with his Precog Muscle Reading. Its almost like Spider Sense with Batman Skill. Insanely dangerous combo by fictional standards.

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Two Separate Bios base on Year One origins. One stating his Year One comic as having study and master over 127 martial arts. As well Hunting techniques, and stealth techniques, and more. Another states in his Year One that he learn from Manhunters and Martial Artist mastering every fighting style.

nts.

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First we see Batman state several ways to get out of his predicament, and then shows one way with a single kick to handicap the crook for life. Next we have Batman using Pressure Points on nerve clusters, as well chops that cause desired bleeding effects. Finally Takes down two grown men with nerve pinches in the neck. Luther Strode already had DEEP knowledge of pressure points and how the human body works. Now with Batman's own on top of that, the ease for Strode to pull of incapacitation and knockout blows will be a huge threat to your team

Abilities

Luther has many abilities. With the suit some of these wont be used at much unless somehow the suit is penetrated. Like Muscle Control. The ability to catch and "pinch" things with his muscles. Trapping them in a sense. I will touch on this more if the Vibranium Suit somehow gets bypass. For now the major abilities is Healing Factor and Precog Muscle Reading.

Luther learning his powers was able to see multiple moves ahead of anyone he looked at. The fact is the knowledge and powers he has gain allows him to physically see your inner flesh and muscles. Allowing him to in a sense now what moves you will make ahead of time "physically". This works only "physical" moves of the human body.

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While some of your characters have tricky things like a symbiot, looking at Venom, the same principle remains the same for where your characters main bodies are going to do at least. Librarian states Luther should be able to see thousand moves ahead which is somewhat shown in the comic too. Luther in this fight will be able to predict the main forms of attacks from your characters hands, feet, ect as well things like how your characters will dodge and directions they move in. Either way a huge boon.

Luther other ability as seen is effective healing factor. Luther is shown to have healed from massive gunshot wounds after being medically declared dead!

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Luther heals from being disembowel. Luther used his own intestines as a weapon to strangle others with and heals right up. So yes, should any attacks get through the Vibranium Suit both the Muscle Control and Healing Factor will be super useful. All the while the Muscle Reading Precog compliments the Batman Martial Arts insanely well. This man is a murder machine in close combat.

Strength

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Luther smashes the Sister through a solid concrete barricade wall of a freeway.

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Luther rips up a large tree, and wields it like a club one handed, and launches the tree like a javelin.

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Luther slams Jack so hard to explode the solid ground. Comfortable 5 pointer.

Durability

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When talking durability it matches his strength like pretty much said. We see Cain hits Luther hard enough to massively warp the stone tile floor and nearby walls. Luther is good except for the pressure points that temporary stun him.

Gardener punch Luther so hard to send Luther flying 100s of feet into the air. Only by holding onto the various ropes in the trees was Luther able to stop the momentum otherwise he would have flown further away. Luther was unfazed from the blow.

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Gardener punch Luther with enough force to cause Luther to fly back, break through dozen thick trees into splinters. All with massive shockwave from the blow shown. Luther quickly recovers and fights Gardener in a drag out fight. Combine with his insane healing ability, immunity to non physical attacks, and MCU Vibranium Armor, I mean my god, what can you really do to not die out first in any fight?

Speed

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Like any good 5 pointer, Luther has the comfortable super sonic speed. Luther is shown as a blur weaving through mass amount of bullets over a wide spread area.

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Luther physically slaps away several bullets fired at him with ease.

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Luther himself states " I Know I Can Dance Between The Bullets." The man is 5 pointer material in super sonic speed easy. Hitting around mach 2-3 areas.

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Alucard Tepes

Alucard is a half human half vampire of the Castlevania Netflix show. Son of the most powerful known vampire Dracula himself. Alucard is still consider a child among his peers, but proven very powerful and skilled as to beat the most elite Vampire Generals that Dracula has to offer. While not heavy on magic, or weapons, what Alucard does use is to great effect.

Perks

Alucard is packing the perk to upgrade him to full 5 pointer on par with Luther Strode. He had great feats before but now comfortable 5 pointer. TBH Alucard should now be on par with his father Dracula in strength and durability.

Gear

For gear he has a very insane strong shield, but more important a special magical Familiar Sword. A sword that can fly itself around and attack foes from great distance.

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Alucard can send the Sword to attack like from a distance, and shown to pierce steel plated armor with ease.

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Alucard sword reacts and blocks the attack of a Vampire attacking Alucard from behind, showing defensive uses to cover Alucard blind spots as well attacking. Alucard can also generate magical burning flames through this sword.

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Alucard setting targets he strikes and stabs on fire through his sword.

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Alucard uses his hellfire ability through the sword to help cut down more durable foes.

Abilities

As a Vampire Alucard has some special abilities. Relevant abilities is levitational flight, shape shifting, and healing factor. No need to touch on the Shape Shifting as it really does not add much at all. Flight and healing will matter here though.

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Alucard can levitate and battle while levitating against Dracula. Able to preform decent air combat to grounded forces and hit and runs attacks.

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In battle Alucard has two baseball size holes in his body, and a deep slice in the chest, as well a knife jabbed into his chest. Several mortal wounds. Alucard heals all these shown wounds in seconds the moment he is done testing Trevor Belmont. Decent healing factor to stay in a fight when is is tagged.

Strength

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Alucard is a solid 3 pointer in strength as it is. As seen here when he strikes a large super human level Night Creature so hard it explodes into bits. Now he has 5 pointer strength, Dracula level strength.

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Alucard slams Dracula so hard into the wall that the room shakes and stone wall cracks. notice how damaging this attack is in strength, but Dracula catches it with just three fingers and easily at that. Thats the kind of strength Alucard has now.

Durability

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Alucard durability with healing factor is already up there. As seen he tanks stone floor cratering blows, slapped with shockwave backed palm strikes, and being slammed whole bodily through stone floors and walls in his fight against his father. All this wore Alucard down in his fight, where Dracula was unfaze by it all and in this fight this will end up the same way. 5pointer now.

Speed

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Alucard was already possibly super sonic, but there was always counter arguments to it. Well now there is no counter arguments here, he is a 5 pointer with matching speed thanks to his perk. So moving at super sonic speeds while blitz attacking like the above is going to be a nightmare to deal with.

Main Battle Plan

Well you have prep and battlefield traps or whatever to do. I don't know what it is yet. So I cannot possibly plan or address it yet. What I do know is my team main job is straight up bullying your team. They are speedy bros that ask the question "can you lift brah?" They will charge in and tank or bypass any possible traps, and just get in close combat where my team becomes the meat grinder, and does this to your team the meat.

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sirfizzwhizz

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geekryan

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T4V

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Sauce_God31

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Taep

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DeathHero61

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Damn this looks fun TAEP.

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mr-yes

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#12  Edited By mr-yes

@sirfizzwhizz: Nice post man, gotta rewatch all these shows but I’ll get something up ASAP.

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Andromeda1001

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Lol.

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WastelandMan

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TAEP.

Cool to see someone using my boi Angor.

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MordhauExtreme1

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#15  Edited By MordhauExtreme1

@sirfizzwhizz: woah take it easy there, you don’t need to go ham on the first post Xd T4V

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mr-yes

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#17  Edited By mr-yes

I have taken an extension. My post will be up Wednesday at the latest.

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#18  Edited By mr-yes

Agent Venom

No Caption Provided

As should be expected for a Spider-Man peer, Agent Venom is a physical powerhouse, able to tank a large cargo container falling on him without injury (1m37s), before then punching a hole through the metal and escaping. According to several different sources, shipping containers can weigh around 2-4 tons.

As the fight goes unfinished, Agent Venom tanks a small explosion from Taskmaster’s grenade (2m13s). Being flung through several thinner walls at high speeds is absolutely no issue, and perhaps his most impressive physical exhibit lies in his fight against Rhino when taking being plowed through several thick walls relatively well. Further cementing his capabilities is his portrayal as a peer to Spider-Man in all physical aspects in their fight. This is meaningful as Spider-Man is capable of:

The physiology of the Venom suit itself affords him a vast array of beneficial qualities, such as:

Angor Rot

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A tertiary antagonist in the underrated Trollhunters show, Angor Rot was once a hero, protector and support of his people after Gunmar’s forces. So deep ran his loyalty and concern for his people that he would deal with Morgana, attaining greater strength and new powers at the cost of his soul and his compassion. Credit to Wastelandman for a lot of the links in here.

Unfortunately, Angor’s most potent weapon, the Creeper’s Sun Blade, is unavailable to him. He does yet have a multitude of secondary weapons and spells at his beck and call. Pyrokinesis, a binding spell, etc. Even better, though, are his items, even if secondary ones:

Angor is no slouch in terms of physicals either. Angor can casually catch a crossbow bolt fired at him, with crossbow bolts reaching up to 500 f/s, or Mach 0.44, almost the the very limit for his tier. He can casually flip and toss cars (as the model of this car is unknown, the average car weights 2 tons per the EPA), tank blows from Jim’s boomerang knives which can shatter stone statues, etc. He pretty much describes the limits of this tier in physicals.

Ghost

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An assassin hired by A.I.M to kill Tony Stark, Ghost is a figure shrouded in mystery.

Ghost is infamous for his intangibility/invisibility powers. He can phase through attacks, the ground, walls, people, etc. He can also teleport. Furthermore, Ghost can create holograms that can attack, go intangible, etc. on their own, which will be important later.

Ghost can pretty easily bullet time. He can tank attacks that create massive explosions as well as attacks that crater walls and can crater walls himself, once even completely destroying a (slightly pre-damaged) concrete wall with a single blast of his gun.

Ghost’s other gear includes:

Prep, Perks, & Strategy:

Ten Minutes of Battlefield Prep should serve as a sufficient timeframe to get through the following. Perfect Teamwork will negate all arguments against a flawless operation and execution.

Angor Rot will deploy his Animus Totems so as to form exactly 17 Golems. He will utilize the ground, the skull formations, anything and everything around him. Bear in mind that the only way to destroy them is to destroy the Totems inside of them, which your team does not know. This should take no longer than a minute, if not less. Angor goes on to rig the battlefield with numerous stasis traps and explosive traps. Finally, he will deploy his spy-eye (as I like to call it).

Meanwhile, Ghost forms his “Solograms“ as he likes to call them and booby-traps the arena with more explosive traps, much like in his encounter with Stealth-Armor Iron Man.

The Ore of Skeletor is also used, summoning 30 skeletons, which are assigned to the 3 members of my team in groups of 8.

The team’s Mind Link will allow every member to stay on the same page, knowing every trap’s location, sharing information, etc. Moreover, every member of the team will now have access to the outlook of Angor Rot’s spy-eye.

Finally, Batman’s Martial Arts will enhance Agent Venom’s utilization of his already extremely potent physicals. While both Strode and Venom have Batman’s Martial Arts, the latter’s superior physical versatility (i.e symbiotic tentacles, damage soak/reflection, etc.) will afford him greater application of it.

The strategy is rather simple - Ghost’s Solograms (which can teleport and phase themselves, enhancing the probability of capture) and the remaining 6 skeletons are placed near booby traps in order to draw your team towards the traps and capture/damage them. Best-case scenario, your team gets caught in the stasis traps or damaged by the explosive traps for an easy victory. If you can adequately argue against not being caught in traps that:

  • Are numerous and placed in various locations
  • Have several methods of drawing your team towards them
  • Your team knows nothing about and will know nothing about

…then I am still left with:

  • Agent Venom, a devastating physical attacker that possesses a somewhat versatile Symbiotic suit with Batman’s Martial Arts to boot
  • Angor Rot, a versatile magic user with teleportation, damage transferral, binding, etc.
  • Ghost, a fluid intangibility/invisibility user that will bring both flair and physicals to the team
  • Ghost’s Solograms, which possess Ghost’s attributes
  • Angor Rot’s Golems, which your team will have no clue how to put down
  • The Ore of Skeletor’s summoned Skeletons, adding 30 to the 23 already on the battlefield.

Before I pass the mic back to you, I should take note of one issue I have with the premise of your post:

Alucard is packing the perk to upgrade him to full 5 pointer on par with Luther Strode. He had great feats before but now comfortable 5 pointer.

This may be what the Goblet does… the question I have for you is: How do you activate it? As far as I can see in your post, there is not a single mention of where the liquid for the Goblet’s usage is coming from. Before you answer, consider this: It would be believable if you had outside prep, if you had battlefield prep, or even if your characters were simply calculated in their endeavors. However, and this is in your own words: “They will charge in and tank or bypass any possible traps.” Therefore, as of now, Alucard remains a 3-pointer.

This works in my favor in the efficiency of my strategy as well - your characters will simply “charge in” carefree like nimrods and get trapped in stasis, or outmaneuvered, or blown up, or overwhelmed by my team‘s numbers, versatility and strength, or even a combination of those possibilities.

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mr-yes

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@mr-yes:

The Battle Starts....

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Angor Rot will deploy his Animus Totems so as to form exactly 17 Golems. He will utilize the ground, the skull formations, anything and everything around him. Bear in mind that the only way to destroy them is to destroy the Totems inside of them, which your team does not know.

I dont see this a problem, my team will be shattering these things with single blows regardless.

Meanwhile, Ghost forms his “Solograms“ as he likes to call them and booby-traps the arena with more explosive traps, much like in his encounter with Stealth-Armor Iron Man.

Thankfully my team has incredible durability to explosives.

Binder, who is far inferior to Strode, is caught at ground zero of a massive propane explosion, and while physically damage to severe levels, is still conscious and whole. Luther limits for sure to explosives.

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Alucard gets caught up in Dark Inferno's explosive blast. A blast that melted through a several feet of stone wall in heat damage. Both also have decent healing factors. Luther also has his Vibranium Armor and Alucard his Shield. Minor annoyance at best these explosives would be.

The Ore of Skeletor is also used, summoning 30 skeletons, which are assigned to the 3 members of my team in groups of 8.

The team’s Mind Link will allow every member to stay on the same page, knowing every trap’s location, sharing information, etc. Moreover, every member of the team will now have access to the outlook of Angor Rot’s spy-eye.

Ok.

Finally, Batman’s Martial Arts will enhance Agent Venom’s utilization of his already extremely potent physicals. While both Strode and Venom have Batman’s Martial Arts, the latter’s superior physical versatility (i.e symbiotic tentacles, damage soak/reflection, etc.) will afford him greater application of it.

Not really, Strode in this fight has superior abilities as well to Venom. Move reading precog of Venoms host body is still a factor, as is Luther superior range accuracy powers, and Luther's Vibranium armor perk. Luther can shred this Venom to pieces with his strength and Vibranium claws, and I need to see some healing feats against that for Venom. By healing I mean regrowing his head or host limbs.

The strategy is rather simple - Ghost’s Solograms (which can teleport and phase themselves, enhancing the probability of capture) and the remaining 6 skeletons are placed near booby traps in order to draw your team towards the traps and capture/damage them.

Not super sure why my team will go after fodder skeletons when there is solid targets to fight first. Both my characters dealt with fodder supporting the main event and always ignore said fodder to take out the greater threat. Its very out of character for my team to chose to knock around some skeletons. More so when my team has range attacks to do this while charging to your main team.

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The Familiar sword is fully able to attack multiple foes by itself while Alucard uses hand to hand on others granting a insane range attack potential. Add to this the fire attacks being wielded.

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Alucard generates a massive hellfire wave like range attack that can take out groups of skeletons at a time. Also a decent option of range attack on Venom ir use to enhance Alucard sword attacks in fight with say Ghost, Rot or Venom as shown in my first post.

Strode also has range options. Anything and everything is a range weapon for Strode who has super strength and accuracy.

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Luther is accurately able to jam gun barrels with thrown Slim Jims of all things. Talking Bullseye or Deadshot level accuracy.

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Luther using manhole covers as weapons.

Luther using multiple objects to throw as shrapnel.

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Luther flicks four bullets. Two of them get shot down, the other two blow out Shooters knee caps. Whatever is around the battlefield, even the very bones and weapons of the Skeletons, is now a range attack for Strode to utilize with his super human accuracy. In short taking out dozens of skeletons at a time at range is no big deal as both Alucard and Strode would focused on the big threats as is in character for them.

Best-case scenario, your team gets caught in the stasis traps or damaged by the explosive traps for an easy victory. If you can adequately argue against not being caught in traps that:

  • Are numerous and placed in various locations
  • Have several methods of drawing your team towards them
  • Your team knows nothing about and will know nothing about

Like I said nothing suggest a stasis trap can hold 5 pointers strength and power that is my team. These stasis attacks are also energy base which Vibranium absorbs. So Luther is fine. Alucard can bust the traps with his familiar sword on the outside of the trap, or using his own hellfire abilities and strength.

…then I am still left with:

Agent Venom, a devastating physical attacker that possesses a somewhat versatile Symbiotic suit with Batman’s Martial Arts to boot

I argue Alucard or Luther can handle him fine one on one. Alucard will cut limbs and head off, or set the symbiot on fire.

Luther has his own advantages in Vibranium armor that can explode energy shockwaves out, range attacks and options, as well precog move reading. Again Luther can dismember and rip Venom apart as a 5 pointer.

Angor Rot, a versatile magic user with teleportation, damage transferral, binding, etc.

Im not super sold on this guy usefulness. How is he damaging super durable 5 pointers with decent healing factors reliably?

Ghost, a fluid intangibility/invisibility user that will bring both flair and physicals to the team

Ghost’s Solograms, which possess Ghost’s attributes

Ghost is more a distraction specialist, and both my characters can see through illusions anyway. As stated multiple times by now, Luther sees the flesh, which holograms do not have.

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Seeing things as they truly are allow you to see the flesh and internal organs of others.

Luther is able to see past the armor, gear, and clothing of a enemy and see their muscles and flesh directly.

In Alucards case he has Vampire senses to sense blood and flesh as well. As well insane hearing ability to hear heart beats and blood pumping.

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Alucard will notice real from holograms.

Angor Rot’s Golems, which your team will have no clue how to put down

These Golemns will be cut to pieces or explode from single blows by my 5 pointers.

The Ore of Skeletor’s summoned Skeletons, adding 30 to the 23 already on the battlefield.

Again given the range options and speed of my team, they are not much a factor.

Before I pass the mic back to you, I should take note of one issue I have with the premise of your post:

Alucard is packing the perk to upgrade him to full 5 pointer on par with Luther Strode. He had great feats before but now comfortable 5 pointer.

This may be what the Goblet does… the question I have for you is: How do you activate it? As far as I can see in your post, there is not a single mention of where the liquid for the Goblet’s usage is coming from. Before you answer, consider this: It would be believable if you had outside prep, if you had battlefield prep, or even if your characters were simply calculated in their endeavors. However, and this is in your own words: “They will charge in and tank or bypass any possible traps.” Therefore, as of now, Alucard remains a 3-pointer.

This works in my favor in the efficiency of my strategy as well - your characters will simply “charge in” carefree like nimrods and get trapped in stasis, or outmaneuvered, or blown up, or overwhelmed by my team‘s numbers, versatility and strength, or even a combination of those possibilities.

I think as a fellow tourney maker and perk giver, in traditional tournaments when you hand out perks they automatically are in play at the start of the match. I really dont see the need to waste my time or yours with a post that Alucard will drink the perk I purchase for him to gain its abilities. A bit ridicules dont ya think? I can leave that one to voters though.

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mr-yes

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Halloween Tourney Post II

No Caption Provided

Preface:

Before I get into the meat of the post, I want to address this:

I think as a fellow tourney maker and perk giver, in traditional tournaments when you hand out perks they automatically are in play at the start of the match. I really dont see the need to waste my time or yours with a post that Alucard will drink the perk I purchase for him to gain its abilities. A bit ridicules dont ya think? I can leave that one to voters though.

The word I would use to describe this passage here is “ignorance,“ among others, for reasons that should be and are about to become apparent.

No Caption Provided

I don’t really want to appeal to my intent as a debater in my own tournament and I especially will not invoke Rule Zero as a debater, so it’s fortunate that Italian007 (correctly) questioned the mechanics of the item on the Sign-Ups thread and my thoughts on the matter as a host were made clear for all to see then and there:

No Caption Provided

Which can be gleaned simply by analyzing the text in question as well:

“Any liquid poured into the goblet will be transformed into a mixture…”

To state that “any liquid poured into the goblet will be transformed into a mixture“ directly implies that said form of liquid must conceivably exist in the first place.

And the audacity to handwave this stipulation with the fact that you are a “fellow tourney maker” in “traditional tournaments“ who finds the mechanics of an item you selected “ridiculous“ should not be ignored. Let’s cut the crap and get to what you’re really trying to achieve. You desperately want the benefits of the item to complement your brute force approach, but knowing that there’s really not a conceivable way for you to activate it between the circumstances of the fight as well as your own strategy, you are resorting to gaslighting, dismissal, and ignorance.

And just the term “ignorance” might not cut it either. Because I couldn’t really care less whether you “don’t see the need to waste my time or yours” if what you’re supposedly “wasting time” on is to convince the readers and I that your originally 3-point Alucard will be able to use the perk you selected to enhance himself to become a 5-pointer - a vital point in the plausibility of your strategy’s effectiveness - especially when the conditions of this battle as well as your own strategy support the opposite. If you deem that to be “wasting time,” so be it. In your words, I’d be happy to “leave that one to voters.”

A consistent trend throughout your post that I also wish to address beforehand is that your analysis and argumentation is built on viewing the battle from a more atomistic perspective, rather than looking at it holistically. You address individual pieces of the battle but not how those factors coalesce in the execution of my strategy. That’s something I will emphasize pretty heavily over the course of my post.

I will also address one minor flaw in my initial post. Per tourney rules, “Cloning is limited to one clone with less or equal stats to the original.” Not much of a change, just alter those 3 Solograms to 1 and make those 17 Golems 19.

Now let’s get into it.

Counters:

I dont see this a problem, my team will be shattering these things with single blows regardless.

That’s a very vague, lackadaisical response to an obstacle that’s really not that simple to circumvent. We’re talking about 10+ foot tall masses of earth/rock that are completely unfazed by bodily destruction - the only method you’ve proposed to take them down. You didn’t even acknowledge the only way to put them out of the game - destroying the Animus Totem inside. In theory it shouldn’t be difficult at all, but again, you have to bear in mind that your team is not aware of this fatal flaw, and by all indications, will not figure it out in time (and/or will not be able to execute their destruction). You’re not just fighting the 19 Golems after all, you still have to deal with a 5-pointer, a 3-pointer, a 2-pointer with hax, a clone of a 3-pointer, 30 additional Skeletons, and innumerable stasis and explosive traps that your team will unknowingly waltz right into.

Minor annoyance at best these explosives would be.

And that’s all they need to accomplish. Again, they were never intended to be the grand bringers of death in this scenario. These traps contribute, to some degree, towards the inevitable overwhelming of your team.

Though I will challenge that claim regardless. One singular explosive assumedly rigged on the fly busted through a brick wall in a relatively massive explosion and damaged Stealth Armor Iron Man rather severely, who himself casually busted through a brick wall not seconds earlier with no damage. I don’t see them acting as a win-con but I would argue they’re clearly more than just “minor annoyances.”

Not really, Strode in this fight has superior abilities as well to Venom. Move reading precog of Venoms host body is still a factor, as is Luther superior range accuracy powers,

I’d definitely contest that.

  • “Move Reading”: Not sure how effective this will be when facing an opponent with more avenues of attack than your typical fighter, as well as one exceptionally faster and more skilled than a normal human (whom you’ve only shown Strode’s “move reading” to affect thus far). Re. skill, I should touch on this for a moment, as Batman’s Martial Arts potentially negates this argument in its entirety:
  1. This first scan from Batman #509 alleges that Batman is able to sense the attacks of Lady Shiva after weeks of training, whom Batman in the same issue alleges may be the greatest fighter alive.
  2. As Batman combats Vigilante, the latter states that, “it was as though he knew what I was about to do even before I did--“ demonstrating a ridiculous ability to read his opponents in combat.
  3. When Batman matches up against Ted Gaynor, it’s stated that Batman would, “know the moves he’d make before he made them.”

I‘m aware you also possess Batman’s Martial Arts on Strode, but at best, that‘s still a stalemate in this regard.

  • “Range Accuracy”: Inconsequential when faced against an opponent who can casually redirect ranged explosives fired at him - or just avoid them seeing as he operates at a ridiculous level of speed.

Now compare that to Agent Venom being able to:

  • Absorb/Soak physical blows entirely with his Symbiote Suit, even doing so against Ultimate Green Goblin, who himself is substantially stronger than Ultimate Spider-Man - a massive boon to hold against Strode, who is a primarily physical fighter.
  • Use his Symbiote Suit to forge ”tentacles” of sorts which afford him considerably greater attacking maneuverability and versatility - which, utilized in conjunction with Batman’s Martial Arts, gives him another edge in a physical bout against Strode.

One is definitely making better use of Batman’s Martial Arts skills, and I can assure you that it’s not Strode.

and Luther's Vibranium armor perk. Luther can shred this Venom to pieces with his strength and Vibranium claws, and I need to see some healing feats against that for Venom. By healing I mean regrowing his head or host limbs.

There’s no onus on me to rebut an argument that’s not been substantiated. If you can show Panther’s suit slicing off a head or a limb, then we can talk about regeneration to match. Although I wouldn’t bother, seeing as the Symbiote Suit pretty much negates that entire train of thought.

I’m also not really sold on this Strode guy’s physicals, if I’m being honest. Speed-wise, granted, he’s at the limits, equal to Agent Venom. But in terms of strength/durability? Here‘s what you’ve provided:

- Luther smashes the Sister through a solid concrete barricade wall of a freeway.

- Luther rips up a large tree, and wields it like a club one handed, and launches the tree like a javelin.

- Luther slams Jack so hard to explode the solid ground. Comfortable 5 pointer.

- When talking durability it matches his strength like pretty much said. We see Cain hits Luther hard enough to massively warp the stone tile floor and nearby walls. Luther is good except for the pressure points that temporary stun him.

- Gardener punch Luther so hard to send Luther flying 100s of feet into the air. Only by holding onto the various ropes in the trees was Luther able to stop the momentum otherwise he would have flown further away. Luther was unfazed from the blow.

- Gardener punch Luther with enough force to cause Luther to fly back, break through dozen thick trees into splinters. All with massive shockwave from the blow shown. Luther quickly recovers and fights Gardener in a drag out fight. Combine with his insane healing ability, immunity to non physical attacks, and MCU Vibranium Armor, I mean my god, what can you really do to not die out first in any fight?

I don’t see anything here that couldn’t be/hasn’t been surpassed by Agent Venom - the best and most quantifiable feat is probably smashing through a concrete wall or being sent back into “a dozen thick trees,” both of which pale in comparison to Agent Venom & his equal in physicals (Spidey) tanking Rhino’s charge into several thick walls, tanking Venom’s charge which crumpled a bus like paper, and consistently tanking being rammed through several walls at a time. None of what you showed for Strode is particularly impressive to Brock.

Not super sure why my team will go after fodder skeletons when there is solid targets to fight first.

You say that as if your team is aware of the capabilities of any of the members of my team and would be actively selectively choosing to battle the bruisers. You are wrong. For a team “charging in“ effectively blind, there’s no logical reason for them to not attack the opponents they see in front of them. At best you can argue that your team has ranged attacks to deal with them, but at that point the question is: why? Would it not be easier, more convenient, more in-character, and more aligned with your strategy for both members of your team to attempt to physically destroy the opposition?

Re. The Familiar Sword, you propose two conflicting solutions to the same problem. Is Alucard going to: A) Let it do its own thing and try to take out the skeletons alone, or is he going to go with option B) Use the hellfire attacks? For option A, that’s basically asking for the sword to get trapped in one of the stasis traps. For option B, I’ll need to see some quantification for the hellfire wave‘s potency.

Like I said nothing suggest a stasis trap can hold 5 pointers strength and power that is my team. These stasis attacks are also energy base which Vibranium absorbs. So Luther is fine.

I’m not sure why they wouldn’t? There’s never been any nods to active physical effort from inside the trap being able to overpower it. It’s a hax-based trap, activated by magical “gemstones.“

Re. Vibranium, it doesn’t absorb any kind of energy, it absorbs kinetic energy. Not advantageous in this context.

Im not super sold on this guy usefulness. How is he damaging super durable 5 pointers with decent healing factors reliably?

He’s a hax specialist, for the most part. I haven’t even gone over everything he has in his arsenal. For example, I elected not to bring up his illusion-inducing pixies:

Which could easily take your entire team out of the fight just like that. He can also induce a binding spell on your characters, which means that any damage taken by a select member of my team will be transferred unto that character:

Along with the other abilities I showed in my opener.

Ghost is more a distraction specialist, and both my characters can see through illusions anyway. As stated multiple times by now, Luther sees the flesh, which holograms do not have.

Not sure what difference detecting a Sologram is supposed to make when it’s going to be attacking your team, not just standing around as some kind of bait. If one character is attacking another, regardless of whether it’s a hologram or not, the logical response would be to fight back, no?

The Battle:

Nothing that you’ve said has convincingly changed anything about my initial strategy. That remains the same - set up innumerable stasis/explosive traps and position my team such that any attempt to reach them will be met by activation of a trap.

Even if you could have adequately proved that this strategy would not come to fruition, my team still has the resources to take your team down and more as I would hope to have proved in this post. To summarize:

  • Agent Venom is decisively beating Strode alone, let alone with his 8 accompanying troops, Golems, Angor Rot’s support (see two points down), and the various traps around the battlefield.
  • Ghost and his Sologram defeats the still 3-pointer Alucard, seeing as the latter would never be able to hit them and he would be distracted periodically by the other members of the team while the Ghosts go invisible/intangible. This is one 3-pointer against two 3-pointers accompanied by 8 not-so-useless fodder as well as additional support from the Golems and Angor Rot’s trickery (see next point). Even IF Alucard was upgraded to a 5-pointer, this claim would still hold true.
  • Angor Rot’s pixies will also provide additional support, making your team hallucinate and leaving them open to an easy victory. His binding spell would transfer any damage you deal to some random fodder right back onto them. His Shadowstaff will be assisting each member of my team in their fights, granting them the boons of teleportation - with the mind link, this will be executed flawlessly for yet another advantage against your team even in individual battles.
  • While all this is happening, your team is continuously being bombarded by explosive traps potent enough to rather severely damage a 3-pointer. This is all ASSUMING that they manage to bypass the initial stasis traps for the sake of argumentation, but keep in mind they’ll also be walking into those while in combat.
  • Meanwhile, the 19 Golems are also split attacking your two team members.

But you didn’t. Your team will walk right into the stasis traps as per your own obtuse strategy and the ”battle” is finished just like that. Even ignoring that for the sake of argument, with all the above factors in play simultaneously, there’s no reasonable chance that this battle will play out in your favor based on what’s been presented.

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mr-yes

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@mr-yes: Im ready for votes as most points would be re hash. I think two post for both of us is enough to sum up the battle.

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mr-yes

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@sirfizzwhizz: Nice, I’ll open it up. Pleasure debating you again.

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Bump for votes

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#26  Edited By ProfessorRespect  Online

ded

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Hmmm. A toughie. Yes has a much more polished strategy, but Fizz feels stronger.

For the record, the goblet discussion was silly because Yes is fishing for a technicality. Alucard could spit and drink without much issue. To argue against it would mean to make an argument that Alucard either wouldn't know how to use the goblet or wouldn't want to do so.

Overall, leaning to Yes due to having a superior strategy for sure. But it's not that clear because i do see Fizz's team just blitzing in and killing some people rather quickly

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Voting for Mr-Yes.

Though Fizz had a physically superior team, the strategy and perks used were pretty basic and lacklustre. Just charging in and attacking sounds simple and effective on paper, but against Yes' set-up, it becomes much more of an "easier said than done" situation.

Although the debate surrounding the Goblet of Power was based on a technicality, it would still take at least a few seconds for Alucard to put liquid in the goblet and then consume it. So in this circumstance, I think Yes was correct to argue it, and was effective in doing so. It certainly did not help Fizz's case since he mentioned Alucard being upgraded to a 5-pointer multiple times, making his arguments seem very reliant on this happening before the fight started.

Yes had a lot more versatility and hax on his side, as well as a more complex strategy, which are especially effective against a duo of characters who are pretty much solely reliant on their physicals. Having battlefield prep and an extra number on his side gave Yes a significant advantage IMO.

Good job to the both of you though, this was a nice and quick debate to read.

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#31  Edited By KreigAstartis

So this seemed to b a fairly interesting one. An issue in this debate seemed to revolve around the goblit ability that SFW had, I'm going to have to agree with yes on this one. It's going to be difficult to imbibe a liquid with the strategy that Yes presented. It had far more viability than simply amping your character and then basically bull rushing in. Which yes made a fairly convincing argument of this working for his strategy. Same as stats. Venom seems to be equal if not better than Luthor. As for Alucard range attack spam it doesn't seem to be in character to do, as yes points out. Overall Yes solidly took this one.

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Reading through this now, will vote in a couple of minutes.

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#33  Edited By JaylinFreeman

I vote for Mr-Yes as well. Geekryan and KreigAstartis summarized my thoughts.

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Tags are bag. Start tagging mofos

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#37  Edited By ProfessorRespect  Online

Tags are bag. Start tagging mofos

no they aren't