2021 High Tier PyP 2nd Edition Round 1: Defiant_Will vs Shirso

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maestromage

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Welcome to my 2021 High Tier Tourney!

@defiant_will

No Caption Provided
  • Sukuna (1)
  • Demon King (1)
  • Jio Freed (3)
  • Yomi (4)

Perks: 15+1

1 Extra Perk Point (1 Character Point)

  • 1 Hour of Prep (1)
  • Perfect Teamwork (5)
  • Energies Equalized (10)
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@shirso

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  • Pernida (1)
  • Gojo Satoru (1)
  • Lille Barro (1)
  • Trauma (1)
  • Blackbeard (1)
  • Twice(1)
  • Ultimate Iron Man (1)
  • Guenael Lee (1)
  • Fantomex (1)
  • Tsukishima (1)

Perks:

  • Perfect teamwork (5)
  • Prep Helper - Reed Richards (3)
  • Prep Helper - Bruce Wayne (3)
  • Prep Helper - Sosuke Aizen (3)
  • 1 hour of prep (1)

Rules

  • Win by Death, Incap, or KO. Standard Gear.
  • DC Characters are composite Post Crisis(Pre 52, New 52, Rebirth) Marvel is 616 current.
  • Unless otherwise stated Wildstorm characters are allowed their feats from DC comics.
  • Manga characters are manga/anime/novel.
  • Dragon Ball characters are Cell Saga and are manga/movie, no anime feats.
  • Video Game Characters get Composite Game/Tie in Comic Material.
  • Star War is EU Everyone is allowed their canon feats and is current.
  • No Reality-warping (powers that may fall under this or have some association will be dealt with on a case by case basis due to the broad nature of reality-warping).
  • No Luck Manipulation
  • No Existence Erasure or Conceptual Attacks.
  • No Power Stealing, Power Copying/Sharing is limited to present allies only.
  • No Summons, constructs, or any other fodder can be stronger than or amped beyond a Picosecond speed Jupiter Buster.
  • Summons, constructs or any other fodder cannot possess any durability bypassing hax.
  • Summons, constructs, or any other fodder are limited to 1000.
  • Cloning is limited to 100.
  • Immortality is allowed but if a character has their all physical presence on the battlefield destroyed then they are considered to be KO'd and are out of the fight.
  • Characters without a physical form are not allowed, though intangibility is fine.
  • Time Jumping, remnants, and speeding up or rewinding one's own time is allowed. Other forms of time manipulation are banned.
  • Battlefield Removal is allowed but has a time limit of one minute.
  • Characters cannot be argued or amped above Star Busting and Attosecond speeds under any circumstances.

Battlefield

The battle takes place in an uninhabited solar system analogous to our own. Contestants start on an Earth-like planet that will reform after being destroyed 100m away from each other.

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maestromage

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#2  Edited By maestromage

@defiant_will@shirso

Decide who's going first between the two of you, if you don't within 24 hours I'll flip a coin and decide that way.

One week deadline for openers, 10 days for rebuttals. Asking for extensions is fine but you have to ask before you run out of time to avoid a DQ.

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And here I was thinking I'd have an easy first round smh :P

Anyway I have no issues using a coin toss to determine the order unless Gear has any preference

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I will go first as decided

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#12  Edited By shirso

Let's begin.

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Prep Phase 1 : Evolution

Pernida is the crux of my plan during this phase so let's start with him.

Pernida is one of Yhwach's Elite Sternritters and also the Left Hand of the Soul King himself, due to which he governs the concept of "Progress" within the Bleach universe. In practice, this means Pernida has the ability to endlessly evolve essentially.

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More on that in a moment, but let's briefly talk about his Schrift The Compulsory first.

This ability allows him to attach his nerves to an opponent and forcibly manipulate their body.

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In combat, he generally uses this to violently mangle whoever he latches onto, obliterating their bodies outright:

1) Kills a fodder

2)Mangles Yoruichi's arm

3)Mangles Kenpachi's arm

Note that both Kenpachi and Yoruichi were initially stronger than him meaning he can affect stronger opponents with the ability.

Can even be used on inorganic matter.

Now let's discuss his usp in this HTT, that is his very broken evolution and power assimilation:

1) Exposition. Pernida can absorb the information and abilities of whatever it's attached to and evolve to their level, in this case he evolves his stats to TYBW Kenpachi's level.

2) Assimilates the power of Mayuri's Bankai and breaks free from the effects of Mayuri's drug which halts all physiological actions to a standstill.

With that, Pernida's role should be obvious. I plan to have him assimilate and stack on the abilities of every single of my team members and more. So let's get to them starting with...

Twice

Twice is a MHA villain with a pretty nifty ability: he can clone himself and others (ones that he has a certain level of basic info on anyway) practically endlessly.

1-2) Clones himself 100's of times after getting past his existential crisis mental block.

3) States he can make 20,000 clones of Dabi.

4) Clones the entire League of Villains.

And Twice's clones retain the super powers of the original, in fact even the stats, the only difference seems to be their damage soak, the clones go poof if they take a certain level of damage.

Satoru Gojo

Gojo uses the idea of infinite series convergence to infinitely slow down anything that approaches him:

No Caption Provided

In practice it makes him virtually untouchable to most conventional offense:

Is passively active and filters out threats.

The criterion Gojo uses for this filter are mass, speed, shape and intensity of cursed energy. With energies equalized here that should include any of your energy based attacks as well, which neatly covers one of the few ways to bypass Limitless conventionally.

Gojo has a few other abilities that would be useful here:

Hollow Purple: Combining the Red and Blue (basically repulsion and attraction) techniques of Limitless, Gojo creates imaginary mass that cleanly wipes out everything in its path. He can use it on a scale large enough to wipe out a forest as shown.

Domain Expansion: A territory created by the user's Cursed Energy within which they get a buff and all attacks are guaranteed to land:

Gojo's DE ability is Immeasurable Void which mentally cripples the target through forced information overload:

Blackbeard

The muscle of the group. Blackbeard can generate real black holes and use them offensively. Note that his black holes explicitly satisfy both requirements for a real black hole:

  1. Not even light can escape its gravitational pull.
  2. A gravitational singularity.
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The scale of his attacks can cover half an island and suck in entire towns. As is common knowledge, a penny sized black hole is planet level, so black holes of the size that Blackbeard can make should put him at this tourney's AP limits.

Now this ability also allows Blackbeard to negate Devil Fruit abilities on contact with his Darkness. Normally that's irrelevant out of verse but here with energies equalized BB can negate your team's abilities.

Current BB also has the power of the Gura Gura no mi which allows him to create powerful vibrations.

Trauma

Trauma has a simple but pretty powerful ability, he can detect the fear of a target and shapeshift into that, gaining not only its appearance but also its powers in the process:

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Turns into Thor and one shots Korg:

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But contrary to first glance, this ability is not so limited that his target needs to be explicitly afraid of something or someone. Trauma has shown that he is versatile enough to transform at will into simply past opponents that have proven a challenge for a character. Even though said character is far from "afraid" of these opponents. Shown notably against World War Hulk of all people:

In quick succession transforms into Abomination, Juggernaut, Bruce Banner's dad and finally Bruce Banner himself.

Besides the obvious, a few key takeaways here:

  1. Hurts Hulk as Abomination proving Trauma indeed replicates stats as well.
  2. Transforms into Juggernaut, a character who gets his powers from an incredibly powerful artifact called the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak, Cyttorak being a Sky Father tier entity who is well beyond this tourney. As such Trauma should have no issues transforming into any character within the limits of this tourney.
  3. He telepathically detects fear as stated and he could use his ability successfully on WWH. Hulk is already a character with pretty powerful mental resistances but during this event he was angrier than ever making Trauma's feat very impressive.
  4. Trauma has full control over his ability and can freely switch between different possible "fears" of his target.

Guenael Lee

He is not an actual person at all but a mere figment of Gremmy's imagination. His powers kinda reflect that:

Pretty self explanatory. Has 3 stages to his ability: invisibility, intangibility and finally wiping his memory from everyone's minds, to the point people don't remember him even while they are outright tagging him.

Note his abilities make him invisible and intangible to even Soul Reapers who can already perceive and interact with conventionally invisible and intangible spirits.

Lille Barro

Yet another one of Yhwach's Elites, Lille was the first to be bestowed a Schrift. His ability is The X-Axis, which is essentially spatial erasure combined with intangiblity:

Explanation: The X-Axis simply erases anything between the muzzle of Lille's Spirit gun and his target, bypassing durability entirely.

In his 2nd form:

Lille has a 3rd form as well, one he went into after Shunsui gave him an incurable disease, drained his reiatsu and finally cut his head off, which shows how broken his regen can be. His AoE is even bigger in this form.

Sosuke Aizen

Technically not a member of the group, but I do have access to him during prep. Really only two abilities are notable for now:

Kyoka Suigetsu: Aizen's Shikai ability that allows him to perfectly manipulate and fool the target's 5 senses and also extra sensory abilities like spiritual sensing. By the time of TYBW, just being in Aizen's presence is enough to put you under KS. Most notably, during the climax of Bleach, Aizen could use KS to fool SK Yhwach himself.

The Hogyoku: An artifact that can manifest the desires of its wielder. In practice it can keep amping Aizen nigh limitlessly as well give him broken regenerative abilities and immortality. To the point Soul Society had no way to kill Aizen.

Ultimate Iron Man

Now the main usp of this version of Tony in a HTT would be his frankly ludicrous technopathy but I doubt you have anyone tech based so I will hold back on him for now till I know more about your team.

Fantomex

Fantomex is an alum of the Weapon Plus program designed to deal with mutants. His power is "misdirection", effectively tricking victims into a illusionary, perceived reality. This ability is potent enough to fool even powerful telepaths like Xavier and Jean Grey:

Didn't post the entire exchange but basically the entire issue is Fantomex trolling them (New X-Men #129)

That leaves Tsukishima but he is integral to the second phase of my prep so I will discuss him there...

Prep Phase 2 : Book of the End

Tsukishima is a Fullbringer (a certain class of humans in Bleach who can draw out and use the souls inside inanimate objects) with a rather interesting ability. His Fullbring, Book of the End, allows him to insert his presence into the past of whatever he tags with his sword. The ability is explicitly not time or mind manipulation, Tsukishima simply inserts himself into the victim's past, however he sees fit.

As Ginjo explains, the key idea here is that Tsukishima is not creating an entirely new timeline, he is simply inserting himself anyway he sees fit into the already existing past of the target. This can be as a friend, lover, relative, etc. To the target it will be like Tsukishima has in fact always been a part of their lives, and this ain't a mere illusion or trick, it becomes objective reality:

It allows him to straight up usurp the roles of certain people in his victim's past, for example he usurps Ichigo's role in Orihime and Chad's past, going so far as beating Aizen himself:

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Once again, what we need to remember here, given how his ability works, Tsukishima indeed rescued Rukia and beat Aizen in canon !

What goes hand in hand with such an ability is the fact that Tsukishima gains full and detailed knowledge on the entire history of whatever he cuts. Shown most notably in his fight against Byakuya:

1) Inserts himself into Byakuya's past so that he has trained with Byakuya for his entire life and knows everything about Senbonzakura's weaknesses.

2) Tsukishima's skills have objectively improved in the present time since he trained with Byakuya for the 17 months since Aizen's defeat. Proving once again the ability is no more illusion, the changed past affects Tsukishima in the present, amping his skills and powers accordingly.

This is also shown in this exchange since Byakuya is a Soul Reaper that has been around for millenia and resides in Soul Society. Yet Tsukishima's ability allows him to train with Byakuya for Byakuya's entire life, even though Tsukishima is a normal human born in the World of the Living.

Tsukishima can freely manipulate the past of whoever he has once cut, on the fly, without needing to tag them again.

Works on inanimate objects too. By merely scraping the ground, Tsukishima inserts himself into its past and males it as if he laid traps on the terrain a long time ago.

The Gameplan

In accordance with the first phase, Pernida will assimilate the abilities of all my characters, including Aizen. Note this doesn't have to jeopardize the original characters as Twice can always make a clone of them for Pernida to copy the ability. Or Pernida can do it himself since he'd copy Twice's cloning as well.

Trauma will also morph into SK Yhwach using Aizen. This should be very much possible given Trauma's showing against WWH. Once he becomes SK Yhwach, he can use The Almighty to not only see every possible future timeline so every possible way that the coming battle can go down, but also become immune to whatever he "sees". Pernida of course can copy the ability. One other thing he can do with SK Yhwach's ability is distribute parts of his soul to each of my members, as well as distribute it throughout the battlefield. This will not only buff my members but also ensure their power returns back to Trauma/Pernida if any of my members die, further buffing them.

So at the end of this phase of the prep, Pernida and Trauma would be buffed to star levels (copying Blackbeard's black hole powers) and planetary (morphing into SK Yhwach) respectively.

The final piece of the puzzle involves Book of the End and my remaining prep helpers: Reed Richards and Bruce Wayne.

These two are two of the most ubiquitous characters in their respective verses, Marvel and DC, which means they have a rich history of going up against or working together with practically anyone worth their salt in Marvel and DC, as well as being an integral part of most major events.

It should be quite obvious how Book of the End can exploit this. Tsukishima can insert himself into their past anyway he sees fit, including even usurping the roles of a large chunk of Marvel/DC characters, which would of course also amp him accordingly. Meaning I can get any powers I want and canonically scale myself above a lot of Marvel/DC characters. Off the top of my head:

  • I can usurp Onslaught's role (Marvel). Onslaught is a above Omega tier telepath, way more powerful than the likes of Jean Grey or Xavier.
  • Usurp MMH or even Fernus' role (DC).
  • Usurp the role of Despero himself.
  • Usurp the role of Wally West.
  • Usurp the role of Silver Surfer.
  • Make myself one shot Thanos.
  • Make myself one shot Superboy Prime.
  • Make myself train and grow up with Reed/Bruce since childhood essentially gaining all their knowledge, expertise and tactical smarts.
  • And much, much more.

On top, as shown, I can then keep freely manipulating the past to keep giving myself whatever powers I wish depending on what you come at me with.

Lastly I make a 100 clones of each of my members.

Initial Thoughts

The Pernidas and Tsukishimas can all amp themselves to the very limits of this tourney and using Book of the End can freely get and use whatever ability they might require to beat your team. The Almighty also gives me full knowledge and immunity to your team's powerset. Just my base abilities alone that are going to be all stacked onto the Pernidas gives several stacked invisibilities, intangibilities, defensive hax like Infinity that should stop most attacks, power negation, several durability ignoring abilities, soul attacks by default, broken regen and immortality, the ability to morph into any of your past formidable opponents, several broken illusions and mind hax, the ability to basically turn you into my ally by just tagging you and limitless cloning. All being used by characters that are as tactically smart as well as conventionally intelligent and knowledgeable as Sosuke Aizen, Reed Richards and Bruce Wayne combined. Curious to see how you intend to survive this.

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#13  Edited By shirso
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#17  Edited By defiant_will

Opener: The Cursed Kings

No Caption Provided
  • The Demon King (Seven Deadly Sins)
  • Ryomen Sukuna (Jujutsu Kaisen)
  • Yomi (Yu Yu Hakusho
  • Jio Freed (666 Satan)

Everyone in my build presides at the upper echelon of power in their own respective verses. The Demon King's tier is reflected in moniker alone. Sukuna is distinguished as the king of all curses, and the repetitive imagery of Sukuna seated on a throne doesn't leave much room for ambiguity there. Yomi is unequivocally strongest of the Three Kings in the Demon Realm, only barely matched by the protagonist at EoS (for anyone that knows Shonen battle manga tropes, that is extremely telling). And Jio literally absorbed the powers and abilities of every relevant character in his verse and ascended to a level of power long coveted by the antagonists. The underlying theme here is of course power. In this vein, my strategy revolves around the assimilation of such power to forge an even greater force and a nigh unstoppable might. To unite these four kings under one crown.

Team Theme

Loading Video...

Of One Crown I: Three Thrones

To lay the framework, I will begin by establishing three of the four characters in my build. This may seem inefficient, but all will make sense in due time. For now, I want to introduce: The Demon King, Sukuna, and Yomi. For the sake of focus and clarity, I will only touch on the most relevant aspects of their respective combat repertoires. Let's begin:

The Demon King

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The Demon King is an interesting addition to my build simply because his usefulness is solely contingent on a single perk. What perk that is and how that helps the Demon King will be elaborated on in subsequent sections, but it should be easily discerned once you familiarize yourself with his main ability: The Ruler

Seven Deadly Sins: Chapter 283
Seven Deadly Sins: Chapter 283

The name is a bit on the nose, but it is fitting for a character that is a top tier of the Seven Deadly Sins verse. As the scan shows, the Ruler is pattack reversal. It reverses the effects of any magic used against him. Any attacks that are meant to damage or weaken him are inverted to heal and strengthen him. It is for this reason that Snatch, an ability that drains power from its target only amplified the Demon King's own strength. Similarly, Full Counter, a technique that repels magic was absorbed by Demon King when it was used against him. This magic is passive and an ability that the Demon King actively has to turn off if he wants to negate its effects. Ban was only able to circumvent The Ruler by using his magic to amp the Demon King, which was then inverted and instead drained the Demon King's strength. For transparency, this does not apply to physical attacks or attacks that are not rooted in magic (the latter of which won't be a limiting factor due to energies equalized, but more on that later). Essentially, anyone who shares the same power system as the Demon King (ie magic) will find most if not all of their attacks not only completely ineffective, but that they will also make the Demon King even stronger in the process of using them. The added bonus is the ability to seal magic off entirely, which the Demon King gave to Zeldris:

Seven Deadly Sins: Chapter 215

Given that this was a technique handed to Zeldris directly from the Demon King, it is only natural that the Demon King likewise possesses the option of sealing the magic of his opponents.

Sukuna

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Like the Demon King, Sukuna's raw stats are hardly going to be relevant here. Again, the most valuable part about Sukuna are his powers and abilities. Fortunately, my opponent is also using a character from Jujutsu Kaisen (Satoru Gojo), so I don't have to spend too much time explaining the in verse mechanics. To briefly reiterate, the most prominent and potent technique within the verse is Domain Expansion. The "Domain" in question is created by Cursed Energy and manifested by Cursed Technique. The process described in the latter is dubbed "Domain Expansion", spawning a territory which

  1. Amplifies the stats of the user
  2. Guarantees all attacks land within every square inch of the Domain

In practice, the second clause allows the user to even bypass Gojo's infinity, as shown during Gojo's confrontation with Jogo. Mind you, Jogo explicitly has an inferior Domain to Gojo. This is important to keep in mind because Sukuna is an uncontested top tier of the entire JJK verse with an equally powerful Domain to boot:

Jujutsu Kaisen: Chapter 119
Jujutsu Kaisen: Chapter 119

I'd echo the observations made by other JJK debaters like Vulcan or Darth in that the phrasing here implies Sukuna is directly interacting with space. @higherpower put it best:

Since most Domains are basically a pocket dimension, i.e a "separate space" where attacks are guaranteed to land, Sukuna's ability to attack directly from his Innate Domain without needing to expand the barrier (use a separate space as a medium) can be interpreted as directly attacking space itself. The painting on air analogy is very apt for this, as you'd be interacting with space directly if you painted on air instead of a medium such as a canvas.

On top of this, Sukuna's domain is massive in scale, boasting a radius of nearly 200 meters. It is used in conjunction with Dismantle and Cleave. Dismantle is a standard piercing and cutting attack while Cleave is an attack that adapts to the durability of the target to "cut them down in one fell swoop", effectively oneshotting them. The result is a relentless and indiscriminate flurry of slashes within Sukuna's Domain:

Jujutsu Kaisen: Chapter 119
Jujutsu Kaisen: Chapter 119

It should also be noted that Sukuna's attacks are just as much physical as they are metaphysical. They attack not just the body, but the soul as well. It is because Yuji is the vessel for Sukuna and has Sukuna's power within him that he was able to perceive and attack the soul directly, as noted by Mahito. Which is reaffirmed when Sukuna himself attacked Mahito-

Jujutsu Kaisen: Chapter 30
Jujutsu Kaisen: Chapter 30

-Which forced Mahito to immediately retreat and unable to immediately tend to his wounds. Keep in mind that Mahito is usually able to laugh off physical attacks because he can immediately reverse any physical damage through manipulating his soul. But since Sukuna's (and thus, Yuji's) attacks affect not just the physical body, but the soul as well, Mahito's defensive approach was compromised and was thus forced to flee. This makes Sukuna the total package as his attacks will not only adapt to and circumvent the durability of its target, but will also target the soul and function as a hax attack as well. And both are unavoidable within the nigh 200 meter radius of Sukuna's domain.

Yomi

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In contrast to the Demon King and Sukuna, Yomi's stats are his main contribution to my build. To understand why necessitates an examination of the Yu Yu Hakusho power structure.

Demon Class System

Yu Yu Hakusho as a verse isn't talked about on the forums as much as, say, the Holy Shonen Trinity, NNT, Fairy Tail, or One Punch Man. As such, I won't presume the readers and I are on the same page regarding the hierarchy and framework of the verse as a whole. In fact, there are some voters that expressed they are completely new to the series. Those that are well acquainted with Yu Yu Hakusho can feel free to skip to the next section. To those that are completely new, let me introduce you to Demon Classes.

In essence, Demon Classes refers to a power classification system divided into five distinct categories:

  • S Class
  • A Class
  • B Class
  • C Class
  • D Class

S Class being the absolute highest and D Class being the absolute lowest. Now, unlike other manga series using a similar concept, YYH is insanely consistent with this power ranking system and how it factors into the narrative. We see the B-Class Toguro (who is using a fraction of his full power) bully and outclass the D-Class Yusuke to the point that he has a mental breakdown. We are then told that a single A Class is more of a threat than an entire horde of B-Class. Moreover, as an A-Class Demon, we see Hiei slaughter a staggering 500 A-Class Demons over the course of 6 months in order to ascend to the power level of low S-Class. Which is in line with the Yusuke blitzing and oneshotting dozens on dozens of A-Class to S-Class demons with ease as a higher end S-Class

No Caption Provided
Yu Yu Hakuso: Chapter 167

These showings fit seamlessly with prior statements that the power of Yusuke (who was low S-Class at the time) was orders of magnitudeabove even the absolutely strongest A-Class. This implicates a bare minimum disparity of 100x between the highest end of A-Class and the lowest end of S Class. S-Class itself is a catchall classification which accommodates massive tier gaps. Though the Three Kings and their subordinates are all S-Class, the subordinates are described as mere "sparks" compared to the "inferno" of the kings. In that same arc, Yusuke beats 4 S-Class by himself after training. Bare in mind that a year prior, just one of these very S-Class were able get the upperhand on Yusuke and while significantly nerfed in the Human World to boot (note Yusuke was S-Class back then as well). It is highly important that you keep this hierarchy in mind when reading because it puts feats, and the implications of said feats, into perspective.

Raw Power

As stated previously, Yomi is the strongest character in the Demon World and the verse at large, only rivaled by EoS Yusuke. To fully appreciate what this entails, I will begin with establishing characters on the lower end of the pecking order and work my way up from there. Starting with King Enma:

Yu Yu Hakusho: Chapter 20
Yu Yu Hakusho: Chapter 20

Above, we see Koenma, the son of King Enma, fearful of his father's rage. It is stated that King Enma's anger usually sends earthquakes and natural disasters into the human realm (keep in mind that King Enma resides in the Spirit World). Koenma then says that if Yusuke fails his mission, King Enma's rage will be the biggest it has ever been before. He foresees "violent and widespread" destruction on a scale that would even trump The Great Kanto Earthquake, to the point that Mt. Fuji itself would erupt. And this would merely be the collateral of King Enma's rage. The raw energy required to pull off such a feat calls for at least large island to small country level, but i should be emphasized that Enma resides in the Spirit Realm. Meaning that the residual energy of Enma's temper tantrum, dispersed over the distance between the Spirit Realm and the Human Realm still carries a minimum of large island-small country level energy. The anime takes this a step further as instead of merely causing Mount Fuji to erupt, King Enma can sink entire continents. Which actually coincides with the manga statement that Enma's rage will "embrace heaven and Earth."

Relative to the Demon Classes, King Enma is sitting at A-Class, and in the middle at that. The reason this can be inferred to be the case is because of the existence of the Special Defense Force. The Special Defense Force of the Spirit World is only equipped to deal with A-Class threats at best, and King Enma calls on them as the last line of defense against truly powerful foes. For example, against Sensui, King Enma himself saw no other option to stop Sensui than to summon the Special Defense Force of the Spirit World. What's more, the Special Defense Force is deployed and equipped to stop threats that cause international destructionwithin the Human World. And remember that power of this caliber is still orders of magnitude below that of even low S-Class.

To corroborate this notion, I want to switch over to none other than Shinobu Sensui. I'll start off by citing the infamous showing implicating that Sensui can not release over a fraction of his power without causing stress to the entire planet. Now there is a lot of debate about this feat because it has literally been lost in translation with the many different scans floating around forums. However, if one were to breakdown the original Japanese, the original meaning can be more accurately discerned. The clear implication being that Sensui releasing even half of his power would level the entire planet. To back up this interpretation, Yusuke inquires what is stopping Sensui from going all out and goads him into destroying the planet. Sensui replies claiming that he only hates humanity, but he loves the sky and the wildlife of the Earth, of which he does not want to destroy:

Yu Yu Hakusho: Chapter 144

So everything lines up with that interpretation. However, in the interest of quelling any skepticism, I will cite the anime depiction which makes this undeniable and explicit. This may seem jarring to some, but YYH does go out of its way to make stuff like this consistent. After Yusuke beats Sensui in the Demon World, we later see Genkai straight up confirm that Yusuke could obliterate the world on a whim (manga/anime). Which lines up with what we see of Sensui (almost intentionally so since the implication is that Genkai fears Yusuke could be corrupted as well). Mind you the Yusuke that is talking with Genkai would only get stronger when returning to the Demon World. Compared to Raizen,Yusuke is so weak that Raizen can literally beat him silly while sitting down the entire time, even no selling Yusuke's Reigun, the most powerful attack in Yusuke's arsenal, period. Bare in mind, Raizen is the weakest of the Three Kings in the Demon World,inferior to the likes of Mukuro and Yomi. However, after training (and beating 4 S Class by his lonesome), Yusuke is able to swap hands with Yomi himself giving him the fight of his life. And it is here that YYH rewards us with a feat that solidifies the scale these characters should be operating at:

Yomi and Yusuke Exchange Punches

Whilst both characters are literally running on fumes after a long winded battle, Yusuke and Yomi engage in a final clash. As a side effect, an energy wave is created extending thousands of kilometers into the air, with an area relative to the Okumen Tree surface area. The Okumen Trees themselves are easily hundreds of kilometers wide in diameter, which is consistent with their ability to accommodate entire forests, mountains, and bodies of water. And this energy wave has the kinetic energy to clear the surface of debris, and disperse said debris (solid rock mind you) over a massive area, before going onto disperse several cloud masses, some of which dwarfing the Okumen Trees in size; doing all of this in a fraction of a second. The kinetic force indicated by the dispersion, the fact that the outskirts destroy solid rock, combined with the sheer size and volume of the energy wave has led to many impressive results. The most conservative result would sit at around moon level, the mid end at small planet level, and the highest end at straight up planet level. Regardless, that only applies to the energy wave itself, created as a side effect of Yusuke and Yomi striking each other. And though this is a shared feat, both parties are not really harmed by the energy wave despite being at the epicenter. If anything, their respective punches deal more damage. And note that Yomi and Yusuke were very fatigued here after fighting for 60 hours.

Speed

In order to communicate just how fast these characters are intended to be, I must first explain the make up of the YYH universe:

No Caption Provided

Above are the three different spheres of the Yu Yu Hakusho universe: The Human Realm, the Spirit Realm, and the Demon Realm. In this context, the human realm as a whole not only refers to Earth, but our space as well. Not only have we seen characters launched into space and still be within the boundaries of "human world", but Togashi describes each of them as parallel planes of existence that can not be reached with current scientific technology. The fact that they are parallel planes of existence further implicates that the human world accounts for more than just Earth, and potentially our entire universe. Additionally, Botan says that without a proper Spirit Guide, the journey to Spirit World can lead to a Realm of Darkness where even light can not reach. Beyond that as well, we know that there is a hyperspace, or a "space" between each of the realms/worlds. Which further suggests the human world accounts for more than just Earth considering that hyperspace is located at the far reaches of each realm, connecting one to another (which again implicates this refers to our own universe). And within this hyperspace, there are visible stars and constellations. Now there are some methods to short then physical distance one needs to cross to traverse between realms (ie portals). But we do see several characters travel between realms with physical speed. Which would necessitate crossing through space, through hyperspace, and into the other realm. We see the Special Defense Force travel from the Spirit World/Underworld to the human world with raw speed alone, and we also know they passed through hyperspace. Mind you, these are all A Class. Pu, a physical manifestation of a portion of Yusuke's spiritual energy, has crossed between Earth and the Spirit World in a very short timeframe:

Yu Yu Hakusho: Chapter 174
Yu Yu Hakusho: Chapter 174

These feats should all be FTL if not straight up MFTL considering the massive physical distance they must cross. To clear past the space of the human realm along with the space of hyperspace (which is large enough to accommodate entire constellations and innumerable stars) in minimal time would necessitate this level of speed as a bare minimum. Throughout Yusuke and Sensui's entire fight, Pu was lagging behind them by a significant extent. As soon as Yusuke gets possessed and amped by Raizen, this speed disparity is even more pronounced, with Yusuke literally leaving Pu in the dust in comparison.

Yu Yu Hakusho: Chapter 151

EoS Yusuke would be superior to even this Raizen amped Yusuke and Yomi obviously scales to and above EoS Yusuke. So we are looking at comfortable FTL speeds for Yomi as a bare minimum.

Of One Crown II: Hand of God

And that leaves the last character in my build, Jio Freed. As you may have surmised, Jio Freed will be the core of my strategy; the glue, if you will, that binds every piece together.

No Caption Provided

As the section header implies, Jio's main abilities lies in his hands, specifically his left. After Satan turn Jio's left hand into an O-Part, Jio gained the ability of energy absorption. Though "energy absorption" was how the manga initially classified Jio's power as, it was developed to be so much more. It was later revealed that an O-Part absorbs raw information and converts it into energy manifesting as abilities:

666 Satan: Chapter 43

In line with this, the Recipes of the Kaballah and Reverse Kaballah likewise absorb and weaponize information. The most powerful being none other than Satan, whose ability to absorb unprecedented levels of information and energy earned him the moniker as the ultimate memorization weapon:

666 Satan: Chapter 44
666 Satan: Chapter 44

Now Satan and Jio occupied the same body for a sizable chunk of the story. As a baseline, Jio has absorbed Jin's black fire, which will not be extinguished until it burns everything that it touches. Jio has also absorbed blades of wind, absorbed darkness itself, and even absorbed souls. However, this is really only the tip of the iceberg. After all, as stated before, Jio can not only absorb information, but convert it and weaponize it. On a micro scale, Jio has applied this principle when absorbing the raw information of water to create a compressed hydrogen explosion. Or when he absorbed the information of a mirror, which made his thoughts literally become reflective so a mind reader couldn't read them. Even in the feat against Jin I posted earlier, Jio not only absorbs his black flames but uses them himself. Likewise, Jio used the regenerative abilities of soul he absorbed in the aforementioned scans. He pulled off a similar feat when he absorbed and used another's teleportation ability. Heck, we have even seen Jio absorb over hundreds of powers at once and use them all in battle simultaneously:

666 Satan: Chapter 74

However, Jio's best feat is unequivocally absorbing Satan. Mind you, Satan is a being that can alter a planet's rotation and the direction of stars by merely existing. What makes this feat even more impressive is how exactly it was accomplished. For some context, the Kaballah and Reverse Kaballahs are designed to absorb and contain eternal energy, which is the energy of the big bang. Through the Freedom Program, Jio assumed control of Shin, and therefore, the power of both Kaballahs. After the Freedom Program was activated, Jio was able to absorb Satan, who noted that he had acquired and possessed the eternal energy he was looking for:

666 Satan: Chapter 76

To elaborate, Satan's theory was that eternal energy could only be acquired through uniting all of the energy (planets, stars, organisms, etc.) of the universe into one. However, Jio, in emphasizing and truly understanding the importance of each individual, was able to acquire eternal energy and prove Satan's theory wrong. Call it corny or lazy writing (I wouldn't exactly disagree), but in a battle forum context, this is quite insane. Jio is not only empowered by universal level energy, but it directly affects the potency of his absorption as we see against Satan. And all of this is literally just one ability Jio has.

As I said at the beginning, Jio acquired every relevant hax ability of his verse at EoS. This was achieved through the Freedom Program, which gives Jio the power to control Shin. And again, Shin controls and contains both of the Kaballah. Whoever controls Shin controls the Kaballah. Thus gives Jio the power of both Kaballahs, which affords him an insane amount of powers and abilities. The most relevant being:

This doesn't even cover everything, but you should get the point by now. Jio is insanely powerful by EoS and will only become stronger with the plan I have in store.

Of One Crown III: Unity

My perks are:

  • 1 Hour of Prep
  • Perfect Teamwork
  • Energies Equalized

For prep, Jio will absorb everyone else on the team. This is feasible for several reasons. One, perfect teamwork, which means everyone will act on one accord for the best interest of the team. Two, characters like the Demon King can literally bestow powers upon other people, so it should be even easier for Jio to absorb his powers. Sukuna brings nothing to the table that implies he is beyond the scope of Jio's absorption (to say the damn least) and Yomi is just a brick. Energies equalized actually benefits Jio's absorption of Yomi as well given that Yomi's raw power comes from Demon Energy and Jio has shown he can amp himself by absorbing Spirit Energy. Since Spirit Energy will equal Demon Energy here, it is hardly far fetched for Jio to absorb Yomi and become just as powerful as him. He has also amped his durability by absorbing the hardness of another O-Part. Essentially, Jio will absorb the raw information and energy of each and every teammate, absorbing their power and stats. So Jio not only has the Kaballah hax, but is stacked with the Ruler, Sukuna's Domain, and Yomi's raw stats and Demon Energy.

Energies equalized plays a multi faceted role in benefitting my team. It makes magic energy = Reiatsu = Demon Energy = Cursed Energy = Spirit Energy, etc. Meaning that any hax that is rooted in energy from my opponent's team will be subject to the Ruler's attack inversion. In other words, it will only amp Jio. Another benefit of energies equalized is how all of Jio's absorbed abilities will interact with Domain. Within the Domain, all cursed techniques are guaranteed to land. Cursed techniques are merely the application of Cursed Energy, and as said before, Cursed Energy is equivalent to all other energies. For all intents and purposes, this means that Yomi's Demon Energy Attacks or Jio's Spirit Energy Attacks are likewise considered similar to Cursed Techniques. Put simply, energies equalized allows not just Sukuna's attacks to land within the Domain, but any of his "energy" based attacks. This means that Yomi's high tier level demon energy attacks will always hit their target. I've already shown Jio can use over 100 powers simultaneously as well, which makes this even more realistic. Using Yomi's demon energy in conjunction with Sukuna's Cleave is a devastating combination that, again, can not be avoided.

And that's just energies equalized. Again, on top of that, you are dealing with someone that has a metric ton of different hax abilities via the Kaballahs along with absorption. Jio can absorb everyone on the opposing team, and while he can't copy their powers, absorption still gets the job done as far as completely incapacitating them. So even if you take away Jio's power copying when used against Shirso's team, the absorption in isolation is more than enough to finish each and every one of them off. I've shown he can absorb raw information and souls so really no one is safe here. To summarize:

  • Jio will absorb everyone on my team
  • Jio will thus have Sukuna's Domain, which can be used in conjunction with Cleave and Yomi's attacks
  • Jio will have the Ruler that negates all enemy hax rooted in an "energy" (ie Reiatsu, Cursed Energy, etc.)
  • Jio will have Yomi's stats and Demon Energy
  • Jio already has the Kaballah abilities that gives him mental abilities, movement manipulation, matter and molecular manipulation, etc.
  • Jio can absorb any and all opposition and still win despite being banned from copying their powers

Of One Crown IV: Flaws in Design

I'll preface this by commending you on the creativity and ingenuity behind your gameplan. Clearly, you put a lot of thought into it and attempted to maximize each and every character you chose. That being said, innovation should not be conflated with efficiency. In this vein, upon investigation, I've come to identify several crucial flaws in your build and set up that can easily jeopardize the cohesion of your strategy. Let's run down the list:

1) Trauma's Abilities vs Tourney Rules

As the header implies, I'd argue Trauma's powers are blatantly against the rules of this tournament. While this isn't a crippling flaw, it does weaken your build significantly. The rule in question:

No Caption Provided

The fact that power copying is exclusive to "present allies only" completely invalidates Trauma's contribution to your plan. It would be one thing if Trauma's abilities were limited purely to fear manipulation. It is another thing entirely when that fear manipulation allows Trauma to explicitly copy abilities. Even worst, that you propose Trauma assuming the form and powers of SK Yhwach (who is not a "present ally") and the past opponents of my characters (most definitely not "present allies"):

"Trauma will also morph into SK Yhwach using Aizen. This should be very much possible given Trauma's showing against WWH. Once he becomes SK Yhwach, he can use The Almighty to not only see every possible future timeline so every possible way that the coming battle can go down, but also become immune to whatever he 'sees'."

"the ability to morph into any of your past formidable opponents"

Shirso's Opener

Power copying, even if rooted in fear manipulation, is still power copying. Trauma is limited to copying the abilities of those his victims fear or have fought against, but he is still copying abilities nonetheless. And Trauma not only copies their powers and abilities, but takes it a step further and takes their physical form:

"He wields the power of Thor."

Quite frankly, this debate seems pretty open and shut. You are blatantly copying powers from other characters that are not present nor your allies, which isn't allowed.

2) Pernida's Evolution

Now this aspect of your build is in fact permissible by tourney rules. However, I am skeptical on its effectiveness in regards to assimilating all of the other powers within your build. The demonstrated potency of Pernida's evolution is quite sub par from what I've seen:

1) After its encounter with Kenpachi, the speed of Pernida's nerves eventually evolved to that of Kenpachi's tier:

No Caption Provided

2) During Pernida's fight with Mayuri, it adapted the ability to shed its layers courtesy of Mayuri's Matai Fukuin Shōtai:

No Caption Provided

Forgive me if this seems nitpicky, but I've put quite some effort in justifying Jio's ability to absorb all of the other characters apart of my build. I've shown Jio's impressive feats, I've explained the interplay between their abilities, and one of my characters can flat out bestow their powers to others. So excuse me if, after all that, I am not so willing to accept that someone who you have only shown to amp the speed of their nerves and shed layers of their body via evolution (basically amping and manipulating aspects of their own body) can all of a sudden acquire:

  • Distance Manipulation
  • Information Overload
  • Darkness Manipulation
  • Fear Manipulation
  • The X-Axis
  • Misdirection
  • etc

It's just not convincing. From what Pernida's evolution and adaptation has demonstrably accomplished, to argue it acquiring abilities that dwarf what it has ever acquired in both quality AND quantity is an extreme reach to me.

3) Book of the End

Okay this is perhaps the crux of your strat it seems. Unfortunately, from what I can tell, I think you are overstating its potency. For example:

It allows him to straight up usurp the roles of certain people in his victim's past, for example he usurps Ichigo's role in Orihime and Chad's past, going so far as beating Aizen himself:

From what I've seen and been told, this is a bit vague. The exact role he usurped is up in the air. Orihime and Chad (the pasts Tsukishima inserted himself into) were not present during the final battle with Aizen and did not see Aizen's final form. Additionally, given that Aizen and Ichigo were some of the strongest characters in the verse at that time, for Tsukishima to be stronger than Aizen or even relative to him would compromise the power hierarchy of the verse.

What should be understood is that Tsukishima's ability is literally just to insert himself in the past of another. But he is still himself within the confines of that past. For example, against Byakuya, Tsukishima made himself stronger. But this was only achieved by inserting himself in Byakuya's past so they trained for 17 months together and he improved just as Byakuya did:

But it's not like this ability is without limits. Even with his past insertion, he is still confined by physical limitations. He can't grow so strong that Byakuya is incapable of hurting him, for example. The reason I am stressing this is because your argument is basically assuming there are no such limits:

I can usurp Onslaught's role (Marvel). Onslaught is a above Omega tier telepath, way more powerful than the likes of Jean Grey or Xavier.

Usurp MMH or even Fernus' role (DC).

Usurp the role of Despero himself

Usurp the role of Wally West.

Usurp the role of Silver Surfer.

Make myself one shot Thanos.

Make myself one shot Superboy Prime.

Make myself train and grow up with Reed/Bruce since childhood essentially gaining all their knowledge, expertise and tactical smarts.

As far as I am aware, Tsukishima has never used Book of the End to amp himself tiers and tiers and tiers above normal. Again, his ability is merely just inserting himself in the past. That doesn't allow him to all of sudden one shot characters that eclipse him in power himself like Superboy Prime, Silver Surfer, and god damn Thanos. Inserting Tsukishima in these situations doesn't mean he can come out on top and stomp everyone in his path because, at the end of the day, he is still Tsukishima, just in a different point in time. As far as I can tell, the only thing that is realistic here is training with Reed and Bruce because it is the closest thing to what Tsukishima has actually done in the story.

4) Star Level Blackbeard

And finally we have star level Blackbeard. Before I dive into this, I want to emphasize that this is your build's saving grace as far as physicality is concerned. You said this:

So at the end of this phase of the prep, Pernida and Trauma would be buffed to star levels (copying Blackbeard's black hole powers) and planetary (morphing into SK Yhwach) respectively.

I've already established that copying SK Yhwach is completely off the table. Which means that the only character that is remotely relevant at high tier in terms of raw power is Blackbeard. Or, rather, your interpretation of Blackbeard's feats.

The main problem stems from your assertion that Blackbeard's Darkness is akin to a black hole, on the premise that it meets the following requirements

  1. Not even light can escape its gravitational pull.
  2. A gravitational singularity.

Unfortunately, there is nothing stating that Blackbeard's Darkness is a "gravitational singularity" in the first place. The closest thing he says to that is claiming the gravity of his darkness is "infinite" which is obviously hyperbolic given Whitebeard was able to resist its pull. From what I can tell of your argument, you are only assuming it is a gravitational singularity because the darkness has "infinite gravity." That is explicitly contradicted by characters like Whitebeard (who was at death's door at the time) resisting it, or even Ace and Luffy enduring this "infinite" force. If you contest the hyperbolic nature of this statement, you risk arguing Blackbeard far above limits as he would then scale to this "infinite" strength and durability. And if you agree it is hyperbolic and that Blackbeard's darkness does not have infinite gravity, then your premise that it is a "gravitational singularity" falls apart completely.

As for Blackbeard's darkness absorbing light, I don't think this is at all a product of black hole-like properties. Blackbeard's darkness is more akin to a blanket absorption ability as opposed to a literal black hole. It absorbs everything including intangible and abstract things like pain (obviously black holes don't do this):

No Caption Provided

It even has more esoteric traits like negating Devil Fruit powers, which is yet another thing black holes don't do. Just because light is listed among the many things Blackbeard's darkness can absorb doesn't mean it is automatically a black hole. Especially when that single similarity is vastly outnumbered by mechanical contradictions. The ability to absorb everything is not at all 1:1 with literally having the structure and functionality of an actual black hole, inherently speaking. So your premise for star level Blackbeard is on extremely shaky ground. And this is the only evidence you are really going to get to support your meta because every other feat in the verse is vastly, vastly inferior, capping out at multi continental at its best. The best feats in One Piece from a raw energy statement:

  • Whitebeard's Quakes
  • Aokiji's Ice Age
  • Akainu and Aokiji Altering Punk Hazard
  • Enel's Raigo
  • The Moon Explosion

Are all dwarfed by the supposedly star level Blackbeard you are writing into existence. And I could go on and on about the inconsistencies. For now, it should be clear that the premise alone is on shaky ground.

Kings of the Roundtable

I'll leave things here for now. I don't think Shirso's strat is realistic and I don't think Pernida can absorb each and every hax ability on his team from what has been shown. Thus, I will treat your team as individual members. No one on your team individually has the speed or durability to contend with Jio here. When amped to Yomi's stats, Jio can statue your team and one shot almost everyone with a flex. In tandem with Domain, Yomi's planet level + Demon energy attacks will always hit their mark, while also working in tandem with Sukuna's Cleave and soul attacks. Even if Jio can't detect certain characters like Lee, the Domain will account for him. He can also just absorb him. This is pretty open and shut. Your team can't assimilate into pernida from what has been shown so far, your team lacks stats to compete and get one shotted individually and the Book of the End strat will not work for you in the way you are arguing it. We can get into the interplay of certain hax abilities once you prove this assimilation will work and that you have the raw speed and tools to actually land attacks on me before I hax you to death or just absorb you.

Your move

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#19 higherpower  Moderator

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#20  Edited By TheWatcherKing

Only interested in how the knock off Medaka strat debate goes

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@shirso said:

@maestromage, @defiant_will

So before we proceed, any ruling being made on the Trauma stuff or you want us to debate it out?

My ruling is that gear is correct here.

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@shirso said:

@maestromage, @defiant_will

So before we proceed, any ruling being made on the Trauma stuff or you want us to debate it out?

My ruling is that gear is correct here.

Thanks for clarifying, will post in a bit.

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#25  Edited By shirso
@maestromage said:

@shirso: 3 Day bump

Hey due to the Trauma ruling this ain't fun anymore, so I want to make a new build and start over from scratch. You can put us against 2 other reserves I guess.

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@shirso: You can't exactly just make a new build and start again, and also there are no more reserves since we had three drops in the last few days. Apologies for the late reply.

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#27  Edited By shirso

Round 2

First of all great post. Meticulously researched, well formatted and hitting the high standards argumentation wise that you have set for yourself.

Now after reading your opener and getting a much better idea of your characters and strat, here's what I have to say:

  • Forget the BotE strat
  • Forget Trauma
  • Forget star lvl Blackbeard
  • Forget Pernida's power assimilation
  • Heck, even forget a large chunk of my team altogether, and retain just 2.
  • Actually scratch that, forget 2, retain just one.

I would still win.

The Advent of a new Solo King and more

Let's establish something first. You begin your strat with:

For prep, Jio will absorb everyone else on the team.

So given this scan, where Satan's entire body is absorbed into Jio, I presume the same is going to happen to your other members. Meaning it's just Jio who will be arriving by himself on the battlefield. So far so good.

Now right off the bat, I notice you lack any illusion resistance feats, so Fantomex comes in clutch.

I briefly mentioned his main ability "misdirection" which fools victims with a hyper realistic illusionary reality in my opener. Let me elaborate on the absurd impressiveness of his first ever feat a bit more:

So Fantomex takes Jean and Professor X to a large, well decorated and furnished house in the mountains, introduces them to an old lady for his mother, and offers them fine wine and cheese.... which are all revealed to be merely illusions in the next chapter. This shows several things:

  • That Fantomex can set up elaborate illusions during prep.
  • The sheer scale of his illusions.
  • That it can effortlessly fool the 5 conventional senses. Jean and Xavier see, hear, touch, feel and even taste as if they are in a comfortable, well furnished mountain villa having French wine and cheese while in reality none of that exists.
  • He can even make the illusion of an entire living, breathing human with their own personality, emotions and backstory.
  • He can sustain such illusions for long periods, pretty casually. He was sustaining this elaborate illusion while performing surgery on himself at the same time after all.
  • Lastly, these illusions can fool some of the strongest telepaths in Marvel who can not only mind read, but also do stuff like sensing emotions and souls.

Given all that and after reading your opener, I am fairly confident that Jio would be fooled completely by Fantomex's illusions. Fantomex can set up misdirection during prep say a minute before the fight starts and Jio will see/sense exactly what my team wants him to once he arrives at the battlefield. For instance, he can cloak all my members as simply pieces of the scenery, so Jio arrives, he can neither see nor sense anyone, has no reason to do anything.

Which is already a soft incap as Fantomex can maintain his illusions for sustained periods as shown.

However, basically glorified hide and seek with your character is lame so let's up the ante. How do I put down or at least establish a stronger incap condition on a character as powerful as Jio, with The Ruler's inversion further stacked on top? Assuming all my strats are invalid and you have forgotten everything I asked you to forget?

Well, I see two options:

  1. The BotE should be a perfect counter for the Ruler, as it doesn't deal any damage or even harm conventionally speaking. And of course raw durability is irrelevant against it. The standard starting distance by Battle Forum rules in the absence of any specifics is 20 ft iirc and your strat doesn't seem to imply Jio will start on the other side of the planet or anything wacky like that. So Jio arrives on the battlefield, wonders where his opponents are, while Tsukishima blitzes over to him in a microsecond (Tsukishima should be some degree of high end MHS-low quad given he could keep up with post skip Byakuya) and hits him with BotE, inserting himself into Jio's past as say a best friend or close relative. They chill for eternity after that, gg.
  2. Blackbeard can already set up a black hole during prep. As I showed his AoE can be island lvl so given the standard starting distance there's no doubt he can make one big enough that Jio will walk right into it, and get his powers negated due to energy equalization at play. Of course his black hole would also be concealed by Fantomex's illusions.

A combination of both works too as well, of course.

So there you have it. Fantomex by himself can fool Jio into never fighting to begin with, essentially winning the battle without ever having to pick up arms, the best kind of victory :) Add just one other member (either Blackbeard or Tsukishima) and I can kill you after negating your powers, or permanently incap you by turning you into my ally.

Now start adding the other members of my team and me also contesting your counters to my strat? It gets one sided real fast.

Defending myself

Blackbeard

Unfortunately, there is nothing stating that Blackbeard's Darkness is a "gravitational singularity" in the first place. The closest thing he says to that is claiming the gravity of his darkness is "infinite" which is obviously hyperbolic given Whitebeard was able to resist its pull. From what I can tell of your argument, you are only assuming it is a gravitational singularity because the darkness has "infinite gravity." That is explicitly contradicted by characters like Whitebeard (who was at death's door at the time) resisting it, or even Ace and Luffy enduring this "infinite" force. If you contest the hyperbolic nature of this statement, you risk arguing Blackbeard far above limits as he would then scale to this "infinite" strength and durability. And if you agree it is hyperbolic and that Blackbeard's darkness does not have infinite gravity, then your premise that it is a "gravitational singularity" falls apart completely.

This is a simple misunderstanding of how black holes work which is completely understandable but I'm a bit confused since that Discord convo you screenshotted succinctly sums it up.

Anyway, as I say there, the gravity of a black hole is indeed infinite, but only at its center point. That's the whole point of black holes, and what makes them special, a single point (the singularity) where an astronomical mass is concentrated (not something we get in day to day life) hence the gravitation at that specific point is infinite. Not a picometer from that point, not a nanometer, but exactly and onlyat that point.

No Caption Provided

The star lvl AP that I am arguing for BB's island sized black holes would instead be what we find in the vicinity of its Event Horizon (the radius beyond which nothing can escape, basically the black hole's "size or AoE" so to speak) and is what the likes of WB resisted or Ace and Luffy endured.

The gravity is theoretically infinite at a black hole's center but nobody knows what exactly goes on there for even irl black holes let alone BB's ones, neither am I trying to somehow argue that for AP in any regards, that would be silly.

As for Blackbeard's darkness absorbing light, I don't think this is at all a product of black hole-like properties. Blackbeard's darkness is more akin to a blanket absorption ability as opposed to a literal black hole. It absorbs everything including intangible and abstract things like pain (obviously black holes don't do this):

It even has more esoteric traits likenegating Devil Fruit powers, which is yet another thing black holes don't do. Just because light is listed among the many things Blackbeard's darkness can absorb doesn't mean it is automatically a black hole. Especially when that single similarity is vastly outnumbered by mechanical contradictions. The ability to absorb everything is not at all 1:1 with literally having the structure and functionality of an actual black hole, inherently speaking. So your premise for star level Blackbeard is on extremely shaky ground.

Why are you being intentionally disingenuous? Let me ask you this, as you say BB's Black Holes can absorb even abstract concepts like pain and more importantly, from an in verse context, can negate DF abilities, obviously something that's ludicrously busted in verse.

So why does he mention and hype up sucking in something as relatively pedestrian as light as something impressive for his Fruit? The answer of course is clear if you look at the full context of the statement:

No Caption Provided

As you can see, the reason he specifically mentions light and hypes it up ("not even light...") is to hype up how powerful the force generated by his gravitation is, not any hax absorption effect or whatever you were implying. Because a gravitational force that's strong enough to suck in even light is indeed very impressive.....and possible only with black holes.

As for his darkness negating Devil Fruits and abstract concepts....so what? For one, even irl black holes do a lot of wacky stuff that are being rigorously studied yet, and it's not the first nor will it be the last time that a fictional ability clearly being modelled on something from real life does more than its real life counterpart. Just look at pretty much any elemental ability in fiction.

Consider this for a moment before I conclude this. Here's a character with a darkness ability that looks like black holes, works like black holes (as in intense gravitation), acts like black holes (as in sucking everything in).......and just happens to have the exact two signature features of irl black holes. Coincidence? I think not.

And this is the only evidence you are really going to get to support your meta because every other feat in the verse is vastly, vastly inferior, capping out at multi continental at its best. The best feats in One Piece from a raw energy statement:

  • Whitebeard's Quakes
  • Aokiji's Ice Age
  • Akainu and Aokiji Altering Punk Hazard
  • Enel's Raigo
  • The Moon Explosion

Are all dwarfed by the supposedly star level Blackbeard you are writing into existence. And I could go on and on about the inconsistencies. For now, it should be clear that the premise alone is on shaky ground.

Except as we both well know the evidence for the OP planet being humongous is overwhelming, bigger than any star in fact, which would massively bump up all those feats:

  1. Alabasta is more or less the size of a small continent (roughly Australia), based on the width of the river running through its middle being 50 km, and we can see the entire landmass while we are still in the troposphere with clouds and birds. Also note how much the expanse of ocean surrounding Alabasta absolutely dwarfs the landmass itself, like it's literally a speck, and this is just a really small stretch of the Grand Line, which itself is dwarfed by the 4 Blues together. Here's how Australia actually looks compared to our earth, from space.
  2. The distance between Dressrosa and Green Bit being more than 4000 km (small continent sized) when again this is just a small stretch on the Grand Line, a literal drop in the ocean. For the full argument on this you can check out the speed section of my Doffy opener here.
  3. Luffy getting slapped by Kuma and taking 3 whole days to arrive at Amazon Lily, which would give millions of km for again, yet another small stretch of the Grand Line from Sabaody to Amazon Lily, even assuming a disgusting lowball such as mere sonic speeds. When the characters Kuma slapped always went FTE to even lightning blitzing characters such as Luffy. Detailed argument by me here.
  4. Then there's evidence such as clouds in OP verse being dense enough to support and sustain entire civilizations, wildlife and infrastructure on them, the generally wild and turbulent climate of the planet (something that's a feature of large planets), the planet having no less than 6 moons, with one moon having its own moon or the robots in Eneru's cover story being able to reach the moon through balloons, implying an atmosphere that extends much farther out compared to irl earth. These by themselves aren't much but when combined with the previous 3 points they just add to the already staggering evidence in favor.

So the evidence for the OP planet being far larger than any star is overwhelming (to put this in perspective our sun is less than 2 million km diameter wise), which would bump the scale of all those feats you mentioned to some degree of star lvl in their own right. And of course, just like YYH, OP also has a "planet" (as in OP planet) lvl statement from WB, who has one of the highest outputs in the series, which is consistent with absolute fodders like Sai having continent busting statements. (continent in the context of the OP planet of course) As far as statements go I also find WB's one to be superior to ones such as these:

No Caption Provided

For a very simple reason, the terminology ("destroy the world") is basically the same, but the statement about WB is being made by Sengoku , another top tier who has extensively fought him in the past so knows his power well and is his enemy commander in the middle of a war, so should be the last person on the world to exaggerate WB's power in that situation. That the same statement gets repeated in the Databooks only helps matters. In contrast, the Yusuke/Sensui bit seems like typical shonen shit talk/banter. Though I ain't using that to discredit the feat, both are valid enough in my eyes.

So yeah BB being star lvl is very consistent with the scaling and feats in the verse.

Book of the End

From what I've seen and been told, this is a bit vague. The exact role he usurped is up in the air. Orihime and Chad (the pasts Tsukishima inserted himself into) were not present during the final battle with Aizen and did not see Aizen's final form.

I mean him usurping Ichigo's role in Chad and Orihime's past is clearly what Kubo was going for there, that's obvious, he goes so far as to draw flashback panels of important events and blacks out Ichigo replacing him with Tsukishima. And once again, given how his power works, it means he canonically replaces Ichigo in the timeline and performs the same feats he did.

Now you are right that Orihime and Chad didn't see the final battle with Aizen, however they probably did see his final form when he was sealed by Urahara and brought to Soul Society. They obviously saw Dangai Ichigo's appearance and heard about the fight so probably extrapolated a memory. It's unclear how Tsukishima usurping Ichigo's role would work in this scenario, if his victims didn't actually witness first hand a memory that he has inserted himself into. I can agree he probably didn't acquire Dangai Ichigo's stats there however the point of this feat is to show his BotE has the ability to usurp the role of other characters in the past, canonically acquiring their feats. Again just how his ability works.

Additionally, given that Aizen and Ichigo were some of the strongest characters in the verse at that time, for Tsukishima to be stronger than Aizen or even relative to him would compromise the power hierarchy of the verse.

Well BotE in fact has feats that prove it can affect characters or abilities tiers above Tsukishima's general level. Shown notably towards the very end of the series when the BotE is used to bypass the Almighty's usage by SK Yhwach himself:

No Caption Provided

So basically SK Yhwach (the undisputed strongest character in the series, someone tiers and tiers above Tsukishima) used the Almighty (the undisputed strongest ability in the series, something the Soul King himself used to structure the Bleach cosmology) to break Ichigo's Bankai, even in the future, to the extent that Orihime (who basically has causality rejection) couldn't repair the damage.

So what does Tsukishima do? He uses BotE on Ichigo's Bankai to insert a past where presumably the Almighty has not broken Ichigo's Bankai (a past where "that", as in Ichigo's Bankai getting broken by Yhwach's Almighty, didn't happen...), and now Orihime can repair it. So yeah he is fully capable of affecting characters far stronger than himself by inserting himself into the past anyway he sees fit, this extends to even busted abilities like the Almighty that themselves control the future and is immune to causality manipulation as was shown.

What should be understood is that Tsukishima's ability is literally just to insert himself in the past of another. But he is still himself within the confines of that past. For example, against Byakuya, Tsukishima made himself stronger. But this was only achieved by inserting himself in Byakuya's past so they trained for 17 months together and he improved just as Byakuya did:

But it's not like this ability is without limits. Even with his past insertion, he is still confined by physical limitations. He can't grow so strong that Byakuya is incapable of hurting him, for example.

Well the simple answer here is he just didn't find anyone in Byakuya's past that would make him stronger than Byakuya himself lol. Not surprising as Byakuya is a prodigy Soul Reaper, one of the strongest and most skilled Captains in the Gotei, who has low diffed practically every 1v1 fight he has been in in the series, except Ichigo, for obvious reasons, and early TYBW where his Bankai was stolen. Now you can say what about Aizen or Yammamoto however nobody in Soul Society, Byakuya included, knew or had witnessed Aizen's true power and it's unlikely he ever saw Yammamoto really going all out either, he was in Hueco Mundo during the only time before the Fullbrings arc that Yammamoto or Aizen went all out. And I agree that he doesn't get the true powers and feats if he usurps the role of characters whose true power has in fact not been witnessed first hand by his targets.

However he didn't simply acquire Byakuya's skills in this fight, he canonically made it so he, a mere human, trained for 1000's of years with a Soul Reaper like Byakuya in Soul Society. That's an example of getting actual superpowers using BotE.

As far as I am aware, Tsukishima has never used Book of the End to amp himself tiers and tiers and tiers above normal. Again, his ability is merely just inserting himself in the past. That doesn't allow him to all of sudden one shot characters that eclipse him in power himself like Superboy Prime, Silver Surfer, and god damn Thanos. Inserting Tsukishima in these situations doesn't mean he can come out on top and stomp everyone in his path because, at the end of the day, he is still Tsukishima, just in a different point in time.

Ok on second thoughts I can agree saying he one shots those characters, if something of the sort never happened originally, is probably going too far. He does have limits as you rightly pointed out, he didn't make himself one shot Byakuya and still needed Orihime to actually repair Ichigo's Bankai. However usurping the role of characters in the past should be completely fair game which is more than enough here.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that is realistic here is training with Reed and Bruce because it is the closest thing to what Tsukishima hasactuallydonein the story.

No he has done a lot more, which you just want to ignore because you can't counter it:

  1. Usurping the roles of a certain character in another's past.
  2. Ignoring physical limitations and straight up paradoxes outright such as canonically training for 1000's of years with a Shinigami when he is a normal human with normal human life span.
  3. Affecting not only characters and abilities tiers above him such as SK Yhwach's Almighty but also abilities that manipulate the future themselves and resist Causality Manipulation.

BotE is just that busted and as I said, merely usurping the role of a character such as Fernus, Despero, Wally West, Onslaught, Silver Surfer, etc gives him access canonically to most of their impressive feats which is enough here.

Pernida

Forgive me if this seems nitpicky, but I've put quite some effort in justifying Jio's ability to absorb all of the other characters apart of my build. I've shown Jio's impressive feats, I've explained the interplay between their abilities, and one of my characters can flat out bestow their powers to others.

You are right, it isn't nitpicky. "Nitpicky" implies there's at least a semblance of an argument to poke at. Here you are just....saying stuff I guess?

From what Pernida's evolution and adaptation has demonstrably accomplished, to argue it acquiring abilities that dwarf what it has ever acquired in both quality AND quantity is an extreme reach to me.

I am confused, first of all how do you even objectively compare the "quality" of different superpowers? It's not like I am trying to copy high tier reality warping or something, which is broad enough to encompass practically any superpower in fiction and can in fact be argued as objectively superior "quality" wise to other powers. The superpower that Pernida copied, namely Matai Fukuin Shoutai, is an unique and busted ability in its own right, I fail to see what makes the abilities of my other characters "dwarf" it in "quality".

1) Is it complexity? Not seeing it. Now despite you reducing copying Matai Fukuin Shoutai to "shed layers of their body", there's a lot more to it than being a glorified snake. The incredible physiological control to split its nerves into 70,000 different, disparate layers and still function effectively coupled with a decent degree of regen to shrug off getting an entire layer of nerves mangled and peeled away or poisoned with a potent neurotoxin. To make matters worse for Pernida, Mayuri's Bankai at this stage was also guarded by Shineiyaku, which imbibes Hollow power into a Bankai to make it poisonous and lethal to Quincies like Pernida. But in fact Pernida even improved on the ability as unlike MFS, he is not in constant agony.

So as you can see there's a lot of moving parts and a lot going on with regards to something even as simple on the surface as you put it "shed layers of their body". Extreme bodily control, regen, adapting to poison, and pain negation all go into a feat like the one Pernida performed. And the ability itself is also a busted superpower in its own right so complexity can't be a factor.

2) Is it utility then? That can't be it either. Just like the powers of all my other members, the ability of MFS is busted in the right context. Sure MFS doesn't have Gojo's spatial manipulation or Fantomex's misdirection but guess what, literally every other character on my build would have died horribly if they got hit by Mayuri's neuro toxin there. MFS' ability the way Pernida used it is busted against most poison users and body hijackers for instance (such as Sunny from Toriko or Pernida himself) so utility can't be the criterion for this vast gap in "quality" either.

3) Is it just sheer scale and a good old NLF argument then? Can't be, since besides Blackbeard, Pernida is one of the strongest characters in my build in terms of sheer raw power and energy reserves. Even better, with energies equalized, he has to copy exclusively reiatsu based abilities here, which makes it even easier for him.

4) Lastly, we can look at the precedence set by other, lesser power copiers in his verse. Esapada no.8 (fodder by TYBW standards) can make perfect clones that can use the same powers, lesser Sterns like Loyd can perfectly mimic powers and skills, and most notably, Tokinada, (someone weaker than base Aizen) who copied several Zanpakuto abilities including among others Aizen's (perfect mass hypnosis) and Shunsui's (basically low tier reality warping).

But yeah, an Elite Sternritter, the God of Evolution itself in the verse, Left Hand of the Soul King himself, whose ability to absorb information and evolve (not unlike Jio curiously enough) was confirmed by one of the most knowledgeable characters in the series...

No Caption Provided

..., who copied the stats of one of the physically strongest Captains and the abilities of the Bankai of one of the trickiest ones, a Bankai that was poisonous for him to boot.......can't copy some superpowers from characters far weaker than him, with abilities not even that uncommon or busted by Bleach standards, under an energies equalized situation to boot. Makes perfect sense.

So excuse me if, after all that, I am not so willing to accept that someone who you have only shown to amp the speed of their nerves and shed layers of their body via evolution (basically amping and manipulating aspects of their own body) can all of a sudden acquire:

  • Distance Manipulation
  • Information Overload
  • Darkness Manipulation
  • Fear Manipulation
  • The X-Axis
  • Misdirection
  • etc

I don't know what you seek to accomplish by listing the names of my other characters' abilities. There's nothing inherently special about say Misdirection or Information Overload or Distance Manipulation that makes them any harder to copy than Mayuri's Bankai. They are all complex superpowers, that are extremely busted in their own right in the right context. And Pernida has an explicit statement from one of the smartest characters in the series, his position as the God of Evolution itself as well as enough feats and in verse precedence to warrant he can, especially as most of these characters are also far weaker than him and energies are also equalized.

As for "quantity" if you mean has he used multiple powers at once, well he was operating on Kenpachi's stat tier and using the ability of MFS in tandem, and in fact even manifesting aspects of Kenpachi's personality at the same time. He has also used Quincy abilities and The Compulsory in tandem, such as attaching his nerves to Quincy arrows.

At the end of the day, at best you can say Pernida hasn't copied anything exactly like the abilities of my other characters, but then neither has Jio copied something exactly like Domain Expansion or The Ruler's inversion. Sure Pernida had far fewer opportunities to show off his stuff compared to Jio as his main fight was barely 10 chapters however the feats, lore and statements he did get in that very short timeframe is enough proof he can pull off something like this.

Not that you have any actual argument why any of the powers of my other members would be necessarily "harder" to copy to begin with.

Some counters

I won't contest too much of what you said regarding your own characters besides a few gripes for the time being:

But we do see several characters travel between realms with physical speed. Which would necessitate crossing through space, through hyperspace, and into the other realm. We see the Special Defense Force travel from the Spirit World/Underworld to the human world with raw speed alone, and we also know they passed through hyperspace. Mind you, these are all A Class. Pu, a physical manifestation of a portion of Yusuke's spiritual energy, has crossed between Earth and the Spirit World in a very short timeframe:

This seems like long distance travel speed in deep space, why and how does that necessarily translate to combat speed ?

I might as well show a few speed feats for my characters at this point. Current Blackbeard should scale above the likes of Marco who moved relative to and intercepted LS attacks (high rel-LS showing) and should scale at least around old Garp who blitzed this same Marco from a further distance (FTL feat). BB can also use CoO to keep up if necessary. CoO can compensate for several blitz tier gaps speed wise and I am sure you know the details of so I will not go into here. But check the speed section of my opener here if necessary. BB should be able to hang most likely.

The Bleach characters (besides maybe Lee) should all scale to and above weaker Sterns like Liltotto dodging Aushwalen , an attack that crossed the distance from Soul Palace to Seireitei in seconds. This can benefit from similar arguments you used for the YYH dude as the Soul Palace also resides in a separate dimension from Soul Society, the Soul Society itself being a mirror image of our own universe.

So I see my stronger characters (Lille, Tsukishima, Pernida, Blackbeard) being able to hang speed wise, just based on their own feats alone.

The Demon King is an interesting addition to my build simply because his usefulness is solely contingent on a single perk. What perk that is and how that helps the Demon King will be elaborated on in subsequent sections, but it should be easily discerned once you familiarize yourself with his main ability:The Ruler

This is an annoying ability no doubt but I need to ask, when Jio is using it, will it be amped to his general level or be at Demon King's level? If it's the latter I can argue the stronger members of my team simply overpowering it. It's possible to overpower Commandments, including magic sealing, such as when Adult King overpowered Mael's Reticence seal.

As the section header implies, Jio's main abilities lies in his hands, specifically his left. After Satan turn Jio's left hand into an O-Part,Jio gained the ability of energy absorption. Though "energy absorption" was how the manga initially classified Jio's power as, it was developed to be so much more. It was later revealed that an O-Part absorbs raw information and converts it into energy manifesting as abilities:

As busted as Jio's absorption seems, the obvious weakness I am seeing is that he needs to actually physically touch whatever he wants to absorb, something consistent in every feat you have shown. Meaning he has no way of absorbing or even hurting the intangibles (like Lille who will start already in his 2nd form, or Lee) in any other way from what I am seeing so far. And if he tries to absorb BB by touching him, it will probably backfire and negate his powers instead.

Heck, we have even seen Jio absorb over hundreds of powers at once and use them all in battle simultaneously:

From what I understand, the system of this verse introduces artifacts known as O-Parts, each with an unique effect powered by the user's spirit. In this case he isn't using the abilities of hundreds of different O-Parts at once, but rather one O-Part which has a lot of effects, which he just absorbed, which imo doesn't really show off his power copying and usage versatility the same way. Can you show an example where he ever used the abilities of O-Parts he absorbed in past arcs in a later fight? Otherwise the power copying aspect is looking highly situational to me, he only uses whatever he has just absorbed.

Also for what it's worth, that jade pendant presumably has "over a hundred effects" however in practice all he did was push out a bunch of tentacles. From what I can see in the scans.

Correct me if I am wrong on any of this though.

As I said at the beginning, Jio acquired every relevant hax ability of his verse at EoS. This was achieved through the Freedom Program, which gives Jio the power to control Shin. And again, Shin controls and contains both of the Kaballah. Whoever controls Shin controls the Kaballah. Thus gives Jio the power of both Kaballahs, which affords him an insane amount of powers and abilities. The most relevant being:

Cool. Now how many of these has Jio himself actually used in combat? I clicked on all those links and it seems not a single feat is from Jio himself lol. Which just reinforces my notion that this vaunted power copying, although possible on paper, is something very situational in practice and Jio in character probably doesn't spam and abuse every single hax technically at his disposal.

Again correct me if I am wrong and now would be a good time to flesh out Jio's fighting style and how he actually uses this vast powerset in practice.

To elaborate,Satan's theory was that eternal energy could only be acquired through uniting all of the energy (planets, stars, organisms, etc.) of the universe into one. However, Jio, in emphasizing and truly understanding the importance of each individual, was able to acquire eternal energy and prove Satan's theory wrong. Call it corny or lazy writing (I wouldn't exactly disagree), but in a battle forum context, this is quite insane. Jio is not only empowered by universal level energy, but it directly affects the potency of his absorption as we see against Satan. And all of this is literally just one ability Jio has.

I take it that just means he has universal energy reserves (so draining is out of the question) and can absorb universal levels of energy? I don't think you are arguing universal AP or anything but in that case I have a query. Elsewhere you say this:

Energies equalized actually benefits Jio's absorption of Yomi as well given that Yomi's raw power comes from Demon Energy andJio has shown he can amp himself by absorbing Spirit Energy.

So if he is "empowered by universal energy" shouldn't that also translate to his stats and AP since you seem to imply his reserves translate to his stats?

Dismantle is a standard piercing and cutting attack while Cleave is an attack that adapts to the durability of the target to "cut them down in one fell swoop", effectively oneshotting them. The result is arelentless and indiscriminate flurry of slasheswithin Sukuna's Domain:

Just want to say piercing is completely useless against one of my main powerhouses Pernida, you cut him, each part will grow into a new Pernida:

No Caption Provided

And even blasted to pieces by a powerful energy blast, each separate piece will become a new Pernida.

Sukuna's soul attacks are of course nothing special against Bleach characters, for obvious reasons.

Summary

Here are my present thoughts:

  1. Fantomex soft solos.
  2. Blackbeard potentially solos.
  3. 2nd form Lille and Guenael at worst stalemate.
  4. Fantomex and Tsukishima hard solo.
  5. Fantomex and Blackbeard hard solo.
  6. You have no counter for Book of the End. Given his lack of resistances, I can simply usurp a telepath's position in Marvel or DC and drop you with TP as soon as Jio arrives.
  7. I am not convinced that Jio is this seamless spammer of hundreds of different abilities at once that you are painting him as.
  8. I countered your debunks.
  9. I win, even with heavily nerfed, neutered and downplayed versions of my team.
  10. I stomp one sidedly with fair representation.
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shirso

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@shirso: You can't exactly just make a new build and start again, and also there are no more reserves since we had three drops in the last few days. Apologies for the late reply.

I see. Aight will be dropping then. And no worries, I understand you are probably swamped.

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TAEP

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#31  Edited By TheWatcherKing

Now after reading your opener and getting a much better idea of your characters and strat, here's what I have to say:

  • Forget the BotE strat
  • Forget Trauma
  • Forget star lvl Blackbeard
  • Forget Pernida's power assimilation
  • Heck, even forget a large chunk of my team altogether, and retain just 2.
  • Actually scratch that, forget 2, retain just one.
I would still win.

Imagine saying this, debunking the hell out of your opponent and then going on to forfeit. What a legend

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defiant_will

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Stop the cap