2020 High Tier Festival RD 1: GilgameshthePimp vs WordmanJones (Open for voting!)

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Darthjhawk

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#1  Edited By Darthjhawk

Rules & Regulations:

  • 20 points for Characters
  • 15 points for Perks
  • Win by Death, KO, Incapacitation
  • No Battlefield Removal
  • No Reality Warping
  • No Speed Stealing
  • Standard Summons, Constructs, or any fodder is limited to 150, cannot be stronger than Prime All Might, Cannot be amped.
  • Cloning Limited to 10
  • Time Jumping, Aging, & Remnants are allowed. Other forms of time manipulation are banned.
  • Marvel is 616, Allowed Pre/Post Secret Wars Feats
  • DC is Post-Crisis/Post-Flashpoint
  • Default Character and Standard Morals
  • Teamwork is not a factor, but Perfect teamwork is necessary for strategies incorporating that.

Round 1: Gil vs Wordman:

Team @gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps:

No Caption Provided

Characters:

  • Gilgamesh (13)
  • Medea (2)
  • Merlin (4)
  • Twice (1)

Perks:

  • Adamantium Weapons (7)
  • Mind & Soul Immunity (6)
  • 1 hour of prep (1)

==============================================

Team @wordmanjones:

collage needed.

Characters:

  • Enchantress (8)
  • Domino (1)
  • Black Knight (1)
  • Black Panther (1)
  • Super-Adaptoid (Base/Powerless) (1)
  • Iron Fist (1)
  • Multiple Man (2)
  • Hawkeye (1)
  • Ult Kitty Pryde (2)
  • Black Cat (1)
  • Speed (Tommy Shepherd) (3)

Perks:

  • Character Fusion (7)
  • 1 Hour of Prep (1)
  • Two More Character Points (5)
  • Spider Sense (1)
  • 5 Senzu Beans (1)
  • One universe rule: No Cloning Limit

Battlefield: Indestructible Planet

No Caption Provided

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maestromage

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Taep

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Laskt

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TAEP

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GilgameshThePimpToEndAllPimps

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@wordmanjones: could you go first, I've got other CaVs I need to prioritize atm.

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WordmanJones

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T4V, but why is Gilgamesh so expensive?

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WordmanJones

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@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps:

Pre-Battle

Aight so check it, due to fusion rules, my character is basically a combination of...

A. Enchantress' physical and magical abilities x11

B. Black Panther's skill and intelligence x11

C. Domino's Luck x11

D. Adaptoid's abilities x11

E. Iron Fist's Chi manipulation (and skill) x11

F. Black Cat's Bad Luck (for her enemies) x11

G. Multiple Man's cloning x11

H. Hawkeye's aim x11

I. Speed's...speed x11

J. Ultimate Kitty Pryde's density control...you guessed it, x11.

And I got spider sense, 5 beans for healing , an hour of prep, and of course I can clone as much as I want.

I'll call my character...Black Enchantress. Because why not? I feel like it sounds good and a lot of my people got Black in their name and Enchantress is my most powerful character.

So just keep it in mind, when I'm showing feats, you gotta multiply it tenfold +1.

What time is it? Preptime

Aight so boom!

Preptime is simple.

A. Multiple Man's got cloning out of this world. He's got at least a hundred thousand in him, if not more. So I'm making 11x those clones.

This would be spoiler blocked, but that doesn't work in PMs.
This would be spoiler blocked, but that doesn't work in PMs.

B. With Speed's...speed, and Black Panther's intelligence, Enchantress' Magic, Domino's Luck, and Hakweye's arrows (often made with some dope materials, like adamantium, vibranium, and other trick arrow ish), BE (Black Enchantress) will make some of the tech Panther's shown to have. Like dem paws he put on Namor. And energy absorption he used on Surfer. And the forcefields he used on Mephisto.

Panther's Energy Absorption
Panther's Energy Absorption
The infamous Namor Paws.
The infamous Namor Paws.
Mephisto Forcefield
Mephisto Forcefield

3. Finally, with Enchantress' magic x11, we'll be going invisible and summon random constructs and summons to distract.

Invisible to Odin
Invisible to Odin
Invisible to Heimdall
Invisible to Heimdall

More Invisibility

Yep. We got 'em. Straight up tricking Odin and the guardian of the Bifrost, and being invisible to them. So there's no chance of seeing BE. All...a million of her.

She'll also set up various magic shields to block things like teleportation/portals as she did to Magik.

Ready to Rumble

Ding! Ding! It's time to brawl. Basically, with Black Knight's Ebony sword (which cuts through everything basically), and Speed's...speed (comparable to Quicksilver), well it's light.

What time is it? Gank time.

Basically it's this...

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
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Loading Video...
Loading Video...

All that. But with the Ebony Blade. And invisible, with super speed, and with other attack magics like...

  • Transmutation
  • Sleep
  • Paralysis
  • Straight up oneshot magic (worked on Vision and Hulk)

And don't forget the summons and the chi. Or the beans. Or the spider sense. Or the adaptoid's power copying.

The Beginning or the End?

Yep. It's the end. Straight up.

You gotta fight a million clones of...

  • Asgardian strength x11
  • Enchantress Magic x11
  • The Ebony Blade
  • Black Panther's tech (boosts strength)
  • Domino's Luck x11
  • Speed's speed x11
  • Black Cat's bad luck x11
  • Iron Fist's chi manipulation (amps attacks to above nuke level...when a human does it)x11
  • Kitty Pryde's intangibility and Density Control x11
  • Whatever your powers are, possiblyx11

And we're all invisible too. Don't see a way out for you fam. It's curtains.

And stay tuned for luck feats, chi feats, intangibility feats, Speed's feats, etc. I just kept it light for you.

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@gunchar16: You gonna need to learn about fate verse as a whole to know why

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The Creation of The Ultimate King:

No Caption Provided
Loading Video...

Step 1: Picking a Perfect Candidate

Let's start this post out strong and begin with my most valuable character, The King of Heroes, who will serve as my main DPS, but there's much more to him than just big numbers given his incredibly large toolkit.

But before we begin, I need to address something regarding Gil's morals. Under most circumstances, Gil's hubris is quite a death sentence, making him constantly underestimate his opponents & hold back, usually to his detriment. Naturally, this would normally make one question about what he'd pull in-character, however, there is a catch to this. You see, this kind of cocksure only really applies to the Archer version of Gilgamesh, which whilst is easily the most popular version, isn't the mindset I'm using here.

No Caption Provided

I've asked the host of this tourney for which mindset I will be using for the King of Heroes in terms of morality/mentality, and I have been informed that the mindset I will be using is his Caster version.

Fate/Grand Order
Fate/Grand Order

However what makes this all relevant is that unlike what one may think at first glance, this isn't just a class change, but rather this version of Gil is older & a wiser version of himself, and unlike his Archer manifestation, it's made clear both through his profile pages & the events of Grand/Order's Babylonia chapter that this version is nowhere near as cocky. Instead, this King of Uruk is more than willing to use all of the available options he has to achieve the best possible solution, so running into the same character issues that occur normally shouldn't be an issue.

So with that out of the way, let's get into the reasons as to why Gil is so highly-priced.

Capabilities:

No Caption Provided

Gilgamesh's main shtick is his Gate of Babylon, where he can summon a metric buttload of Noble Phantasms from his collection (keep in mind that each of those dots in the manga scan I posted is an NP), each of which has different properties. They can range from freezing the space around the weapon, a blade whoms wounds cannot be healed, even blades that skip the skin & go straight for the bone & many, many more that'd take way to long to cover everything.

"The King of Heroes gave Tokiomi a glance of displeasure. Then he swung his right hand, which was propping up his chin on the edge of the ship. Four swords and spears appeared in the air next to him. The shining primeval Noble Phantasms unleashed a thunderous roar, and flew to impale the filthy mountain of meat that wriggled down below.

Saber and Rider reacted immediately and jumped away to avoid being caught in the attack, but Caster’s sea monster was in no ways so agile. The four Noble Phantasms hit it head on. Their power, enough to split mountains, blew one-third of the giant beast’s body into nothingness."

Fate/Zero: Act 10 Part 2

With all of this versatility in tow, trying to face tank Gil's plethora of weaponry is nothing short of a death wish, but even ignoring that, it's not as if they don't pack a punch, as shown in this quote which explicitly calls even the average NP a mountain level threat, which combined with their vast toolkit will make them quite deadly.

Fate/Zero Episode 24
Fate/Zero Episode 24

And in terms of the speed of the projectiles, they are fast enough to pierce Saber's leg faster than she can react. This is very impressive for 2 different reasons. For one thing, Saber's Instincts are incredibly sharp, to the point where they act as a spider-sense for her, meaning that these attacks are so fast to the point where even they couldn't react (I'll provide feats for it when necessary).

The clash between the precious artifacts of legend, driven by strength and speed far beyond that of a human, passed the speed of sound, nearing the speed of light. Observation had long since lost meaning in this momentous battle. Those divine skills, pushed to the limits at the point of this fierce battle, were having a supreme contest between the two.

An unknown number of rounds had been fought; perhaps tens of rounds, perhaps hundreds of rounds. It was simply impossible to determine with a mortal eye. After the lance and sword of the two clashed, they finally separated, and moved away from each other.

- Fate/Zero: Act 11, -72:43:28

And the second reason why this is impressive in terms of speed is that Saber has previously fought against Lancer, where they said to be moving at relativistic speeds. Now whilst may question that this statement doesn't give a specific speed, given the phrasing of the sentence, at least to me it gives the impression that Saber & Lancer are fighting at the higher ends of the relativistic spectrum, so assuming they are going at the bare minimum seems a bit counter-intuitive to what the text is trying to convey.

This kind of speed would also tie into Gil's speed since he is capable of perceiving his blades, which paints a picture of him being at least similar in term so fo his weapons speed in terms of reaction times (note that combat speed isn't all that necessary given that Gil doesn't move around often).

So yeah, Gate of Babylon is quite powerful, however, the icing on the cake for this is that with my adamantium weapons perk, every single weapon will be coated in the strongest metal the 616 multiverse has to offer. With this in mind, calling the adamantium boost just a simple amp, in this case, would be quite an undersell.

Infinity Gauntlet #4
Infinity Gauntlet #4

Keep in mind that Wolverine, who's a high supersonic double-digit tonner at the best of times, is capable of piercing some of Marvel's top dogs with his adamantium claws, ranging from Thor & Mangog to even Thanos. Now imagine this kind of piercing power, except instead of a street leveler, it's being used by a light-speed mountain buster with a bunch of wacky effects and you can see where I'm going with this. Simply put, I'd be shocked to see if your team had the piercing capabilities to take a hit from any of Gil's weaponry.

But wait, there's more! If that wasn't enough, we've still got Gilgamesh's trump card to cover.

No Caption Provided

Meet the Enuma Elish, or Ea for short. This absolute monster of a sword is incredibly potent for 2 separate reasons:

The Sword of Rupture commanded by the King of Heroes - what its single strike bore through was not only the earth, but the world itself, stretching to the sky. The attack was not even something to be discussed as a matter of whether it hit, or whether its force was advisable. Soldiers, horses, the dust, the sky - nearly everything that used the cut space as a foundation was swallowed and disappeared into the surging void.

Bucephalus planted his hooves firm with all his strength and resisted the atmospheric pressure of the vacuum; even as this happened, the great plain of hot sand woven by Ionian Hetairoi cracked, shattered, and collapsed into the abyss of the void like the ending of an hourglass.

Before that one blade was swung, all things were nothing more than chaos which could not form any meaning -

After that one blade was swung, a new truth divided and distinguished Heaven, Sea, and Earth.

The released tumult of genesis was no longer in the realm of an anti-fortress Noble Phantasm. It was an irregularity that broke down not only that which possessed shape, but all of creation. That was the true form of the anti-world Noble Phantasm that made the King of Heroes transcendent.

Heaven fell, Earth broke; within the darkness where everything returned to nothingness, only Archer's Sword of Rupture shone with brilliance. The dazzling light continued to complete the destruction, like a star of creation, the first thing illuminating the new world. Rider and Waver could not ascertain all of this to the end. To begin with, the Reality Marble they were in was maintained by the total prana of the summoned Heroic Spirits. Before the world itself disappeared, the bounded field broke apart at the seams once over half of the army had been lost, and the distorted laws of space once again returned to the way they had been.

And so, as though awakening from a dream, Bucephalus, carrying the two of them, landed on the great bridge of nighttime Fuyuki. On the opposite bridgehead the golden Archer stood, blocking their path with a bewitching smile. The location of the two did not change; it was as though time had rewinded back to the outset of the battle.

The only change that could be seen was the existence of the Sword of Rupture in Archer's hand, which was still twisting and growling even now.

And the fatal change that could not be seen - the disappearance of Ionian Hetairoi, Rider's trump card.

Fate/Zero Act 16, -03:59:04.

The first part of the equation is that Ea is capable of ripping through the very fabric of space, as seen when he tore through Rider's Reality Marble (think of it as a pocket dimension based on the user's internal landscape). Pretty self-explanatory but nonetheless impressive.

Fate/Strange Fake Chapter 8

The other reason is rather simple really, that being that Ea's has been stated to be a planetary threat, capable of wiping out the earth. The only reason the planet wasn't destroyed was that Enkidu (the person he's fighting here) was specifically designed to take Gil on, as well as him using the power of the earth to contain its power within a shell.

No Caption Provided

And the best part? It was also stated that both Gil & Enkidu were actively holding back when they unleashed their Noble Phantasms later into the chapter, so the planet level isn't even the highest potential for Ea. Simply put, this blade is disgustingly strong, and you'll need some insanely strong durability to stand a chance against it, especially with the adamantium boost it'll get.

Function During Prep:

Naturally, due to his inherent role as my main DPS, Gil won't be as vital to my prep as my other members, but their's still plenty he can do whilst the others go to town:

Oh-ho. You realize, Tine, that only I could answer that question? Under this ‘Fuyuki’ sys-

tem, one does not retain memories of the times one has been summoned elsewhere.”

“Even if they are in the past...?”

There was no concept of past or future in the Throne. Taking in all of a Heroic Spirit’s me-

mories would create contradictions, such as knowing the outcome of a Grail War they were

currently participating in. Their memories were therefore supposedly adjusted to match the time

and place to which they were summoned.

“It may be a desperate measure on the part of the Throne to curb the world’s contradictions,

even if only slightly, but it is a wasted effort in the face of my eyes, which see through all futures.

Analogizing the past based on a future of a different phase is a simple matter.”

The King of Heroes stared confidently into empty space and endeavored to observe himself

on a different phase, but...

“Hm? ...’Splash’...? This can’t be right... Fishing...? No...”

He appeared briefly troubled, then mystified.

“How odd. As soon as I turn my gaze to the phases around when I was summoned to this

‘Fuyuki,’ the ‘mud’ I saw today clouds my eyes.”

He seemed, however, not to particularly mind. After a sip of wine, he shrugged his shoulders.

Fate/Stange Fake

For one thing, Gilgamesh holds a pretty solid form of future sight, being able to see through all futures that may occur (hell it's hinted he even knows how humanity will die, so it goes very far into the future), so my team will know every trick that you will pull & how to approach it.

Sha Naqba Imuru (He who Saw the Abyss). Hero King Gilgamesh's mentality, which reaches every corner of the world like the radiance of the stars and sees through all of creation, sublimated into a Noble Phantasm. A Noble Phantasm of the Constantly Invoked-Type. Not to mention an opponent’s True Name and Noble Phantasm(s), it can definitely see even a truth hidden underneath multiple layers without obstruction and with a single glance. Although it is in a state where it seems to be constantly invoked, one can also assume from appearances that some parts of the Noble Phantasm’s ability are being intentionally limited.

If its True Name is released, it will operate as “instructions” for Gilgamesh to guide himself and others with the most suitable tactics, simultaneously increasing the offensive power and defensive power of his whole team near his own position.

Fate/Grand Order Material III

On top of that precog, Gil will also use Sha Naqba Imuru, a Noble Phantasm that shows him the best course of action & how to perform them, so between both of these forms of precog means that we'll know exactly what your planning & how to accommodate for them intern.

Fate/Stay Night: Realta Nua
Fate/Stay Night: Realta Nua

Another thing Gil will be useful for is one of his skills, Charisma A+, which whilst on the surface doesn't seem that important beyond answering teamwork issues, but it's been stated that weaker ranks of Charisma outright boost the capabilities of their allies' capabilities, and this would naturally apply to Gil. This would entail that anything that Gilgamsh's teammates do will be more effective so long as he's around, which will make things even more dangerous for you than it already is.

Other than that, Gil will simply get Ea & his plethora of Noble Phantasms ready to go before the fight starts, allowing him to bombard you the moment the fight starts.

Step 2: The Right to Wear The Crown

Now we've established how powerful Gilgamesh is, now is time we go over the support members he has with him, starting with the Grand Caster candidate, Merlin. Whilst he'll be serving to supply a mix of offensive & defensive skills, they are most certainly worth noting.

Capabilities:

Fate/Grand Order: Babylonia Singularity

Being a potential Grand Caster, one of the main factors for consideration is having some kind of enhanced vision, and Merlin is no exception. In his case, Merlin is capable of observing the entire world from where ever he needs to (note that despite Romani's statement here, Merlin has shown to be able to observe the world wherever he wants to, not just at the Tower of Avalon). Naturally, this is useful simply due to the fact my team will know where you are at all times.

Loading Video...

(apologies for the long video, but I figured it'd be better to put all the relevant info into 1).

The other part of magecraft that Merlin excels at is Illusions as shown during his first encounter with Enkidu/Kingu, where he can conjure an illusion of Ana, Mash Kyrielight & Ritsuka Fujimaru which tricked him into thinking they were the real deal, allowing them to escape before the fight even started.

Now, this is an incredibly impressive showing with 3 layers behind it. The first being that, as shown within the fight itself, Merlin's illusions aren't just a fake image, but rather these are incredibly accurate copies of the characters in question, being able to deal damage to both Enkidu & the environment surrounding him (although they are still illusions at the end of the day), making them both a nuisance to deal with, as well as very convincing duplicates.

Fate/Stange Fake Volume 1
Fate/Stange Fake Volume 1

The second thing to consider is that one of Enkidu's skills is Presence Detection A+, which as described in this character sheet, lets him use the earth to sense their presence (think something akin to a sonar), yet Enkidu was played like a fiddle by Merlin.

Fate/Grand Order
Fate/Grand Order

This skill of Enkidu also ties into my final point, that being that one of Mash's class skills is Magic Resistance A:

Cancel spells of A-Rank or below, no matter what High-Thaumaturgy it is. In practice, the Servant is untouchable to modern magi, so it would not be an exaggeration to title the Servant a "Magus Killer"

Fate/ Complete Material III

Which describes in this quote (the source is essentially Fate/'s equivalent to a databook), nullifies the effects of A-rank magecraft, however, in spite of that & Illusionism being considered an A-Rank skill, it was still able to affect the eggplant just as well as Ritsuka or Enkidu.

So yeah, with all of this in mind, Merlin's Illusions are incredibly potent, and you'll need some top tier form of sensing to get through them.

Function During Prep:

As predictable as it may, Merlin's primary directive during prep is to make sure he can get his Illusions & all-seeing eyes going, giving my team an incredibly solid amount of cover which they can use to go ham with whatever they need to. However, there are 2 other parts that Merlin can help with.

Fate/Grand Order: Absolute Demonic Front Bablyonia episode 7
Fate/Grand Order: Absolute Demonic Front Bablyonia episode 7

For one thing, Merlin is capable of directly amping an allies weaponry, as shown here where he allows Ana to one-shot an Ugallu with just the air pressure of the one swing, where it previously was able to no-sell a direct hit to the face. Naturally, this shows that this skill is an incredibly strong amp, one which put onto Gil's weaponry & especially Ea will make an incredibly strong opponent even more powerful than it already is.

Charisma: B

The ability of personal charm.

A skill indispensable for kings and leaders, but for some reason Merlin naturally possesses it.

Fate/Grand Order Material IV

The other thing Merlin can supply is an extra rank of Charisma, and whilst his version is only B rank compared to Gilgamesh's A+, is still a noticeable amp:

“I will require your assistance for some more time Sir Gawain. You and I are here together. What are wielders of holy swords if they cannot quiet one or two fits of the island?” >His faint cool smile was directed at himself and also towards me. Feeling my once weakened spirit rejuvenated throughout my body, I accompanied the King to face the dragon.

-Garden of Avalon: Gawain Chapter

We've seen just powerful B rank charisma is as an amp when in the hands' of Artoria Pendragon (aka Saber), wherewith just a couple lines of dialogue, is capable of bringing Gawain back into fighting capabilities after a pretty serious beatdown. This should give Gil& the rest of the team quite a solid amp on top of what they already have, albeit not as strong as what The King of Heroes provides.

Step 3: Filling out The Mainland

Next up we have the Witch of Betrayal, Medea, who is the other mage of this 3-way support setup, and if Merlin was a mix between offense & defense, Medea is a full-on Black Mage, wielding incredibly potent magecraft which will help with my team's offensive pressure.

No Caption Provided

Now in terms of the actual fight itself, Medea's main role will be to freeze the very space that your team will be, trapping them unless you happen to have feats of your characters moving around within frozen space (note that Medea doesn't trap them in space, rather she freezes the space around them, so it's bit different from what one can interpret as), otherwise, they'll be stuck unable to move whilst Gilgamesh plows them into the dirt.

However, Medea's toolkit goes well beyond just this, as she's capable of loads of different things, ranging from teleporting opponents (which can be used to misplace your team & general disorientation), implant commands into people as a form of mind control, body control from kilometers away, amongst many other forms of versatility.

No Caption Provided

Aside from that admittedly, that's all Medea will be doing in terms of traditional fighting, however, her Noble Phantasm, a dagger called Rule Breaker, does have a specific niche it can fill. What it does is quite simple, it cancels out any kind of magic enhancements that comes into contact with, even including inherent parts such as contracts Servants make with masters. Whilst this won't be useful against every opponent if you happen you have anyone that uses magic, this blade essentially nullifies anything they can use that's built within the foundation of magecraft.

No Caption Provided

One last thing I want to discuss before we discuss what Medea will do in prep is the nature of servants themselves (naturally this means this will also apply to Gilgamesh & Merlin). Due to their spirit, almost ghost-like nature, in no short thanks to the fact that servant bodies are made up entirely of Ether, it makes them essentially immune to traditional attacks, and to do any significant damage, one must either be a servant or possess some form of way to bypass spiritual intangibility. You can't be the former, so hopefully, you have something to do with the latter.

Function During Prep:

Now in terms of prep, Medea's probably got the most amount of things she can do, so let's just jump right into it.

No Caption Provided

For starters, Medea & Merlin will work together to create a territory, using the magical energy surrounding the area. This essentially acts as, much like Medea comments here, a workshop, allowing the 2 mages to truly unlock the full potential of their magecraft.

No Caption Provided

With the territory in place, Medea will start by supplying the team with as many Dragon Tooth Golems as the tourney allows, and she can make a seemingly endless amount, so making around 150 shouldn't be too hard, especially within an hour. Now admittedly, these things aren't exactly all that strong, but if nothing else their plentiful numbers can at the very least act as distractions for any cheaper member of your team and/or fodder to deal with whilst the big boys do the heavy lifting.

Loading Video...

However, what will make Medea truly vital in this battle will be when she amps Gilgamesh (as well as all of his clones, which I'll get too in a bit) with magic that drastically increases their stats, as seen here where said magic was able to turn Kuzuki Souuichrou (a peak human at best) into someone who could intercept & blitz Saber. Whilst this version of Saber is a much weaker version of herself and thus isn't relativistic, she's still at the barest minimum Mach 10 (can provide feats if wanted) on top of having the same instinct skill. Having a normal guy be allowed to stomp Saber into the dirt is proof of just how high of an amp Medea provides, and this going onto someone has fast & powerful as even 1 Gilgamesh, let alone 10, is nothing sort of disgusting.

No Caption Provided

Finally, Medea will end her end of the bargain by standing nearby Gilgamesh & preparing a barrier to surround both of them, barriers which are just as strong as the mountain level Berserker. Pretty straight forward, but nonetheless could block an attack or 2.

Step 4: Supplying a Legion of Followers

Last but not least, let's discuss Twice, who's only really capable of 1 thing, but said thing will be vital in both ensuring my strategies as powerful as it is.

My Hero Academia Chapter 230
My Hero Academia Chapter 230

Twice's quirk is called double, and it's a pretty straight-forward ability. It lets him clone whatever he can get his hands on, and the amount of times he can clone is pretty ludicrous, so getting 9 out will be no issue whatsoever. And whilst Twice's quirk does have the cavitate of each clone being weaker than the original, in the context of this tourney it shouldn't be too much of a factor given that between Medea & Merlin, they'll be amped to hell & back to the point where the gap in stats shouldn't be all that noticeable (and the same would be said if Twice needs any details to clone them).

Function During Prep:

Much like the quirk he wields, Twice has a simple role in that he will be able to create 9 extra copies of Gilgamesh for my team to use and abuse, in terms of both increasing the firepower of my team (since that's more GoB weapons & Ea's to go around), but Medea & Merlin will be able to amp them with all they have to offer, making my team essentially filled with 10 relatvistic+ planet busters, which is about as busted as it sounds.

How Preparations will Occur:

Whilst I've already shown the broad strokes of what my characters will do in prep, but here I will put it all together & show each step in the order it will be done, in a sort of recap.

  • Step 1) Gil uses both his precognition & Sha Naqba Imuru to see into the future & understand everything there is to know about your team & how to counteract them.
  • Step 2) Medea & Merlin will set up their territory.
  • Step 3) Twice will create 10 clones of Gilgamesh by way of cloning the clones until their's a total of 10 Gils.
  • Step 4) Medea will amp up all of the Gilgamesh's & summon as many Dragon Tooth Golems as possible.
  • Step 5) Gilgamesh will summon all of his weapons + Ea ready to bombard your team.
  • Step 6) Merlin will apply both the amps onto Gil's weapons & setup his Illusions.
  • Step 7) Medea will set up her barriers whilst she & the rest of the team prepare for combat.

And with that, my prep is done, and the fight will be simple, as the 10 Gil's will go full-blast on your team with all the super-powerful weaponry to knock your team senseless. As a wise man once said, the best defense is a good offense.

Putting it into Motions: Quick Counters + Thoughts

Multiple Man's got cloning out of this world. He's got at least a hundred thousand in him, if not more. So I'm making 11x those clones.

With no durability feats presented, it seems to me that every single clone + BE will be OHKO'd will a casual projectile, let alone Ea. And this is ignoring the fact that MM's clones don't exactly have the most consistent morals in the world, which cannot be said for Twice's clones.

BE (Black Enchantress) will make some of the tech Panther's shown to have. Like dem paws he put on Namor. And energy absorption he used on Surfer. And the forcefields he used on Mephisto.

Where exactly are you getting the materials for all of this, again? You'll need to prove that both Enchantress can just magic . up all of the materials you would need and/or Hawkeye has enough raw materials on him to make all of this (somehow I doubt). Since you proved neither of these I doubt you could even make them.

Finally, with Enchantress' magic x11, we'll be going invisible and summon random constructs and summons to distract.

I have several issues with this. For starters, you gave me no reason to be impressed by any of the invisibility feats you provided, pretty self-explanatory. However, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and say it's impressive because of Odin (tho I'd prefer it if you could back up why it's impressive), but even then I have issues I have the consider.

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My main issue is that, for the extremely potent invisibility, it seems she has to stop what she's doing and out all of her efforts into her invisibility (compare how casually she tricks Heimdall compared to Odin and it's night & day), given she has to stand in place & put a lot more effort in, so if you want the invisibility o to be the best it can be it seems like you & your clones will be sitting ducks.

Although this invisibility won't matter much in the grand scheme of things, as since Gilgamesh will know that his opponents are invisible in this case thanks to precog, he'll be more than willing to let Ea's AoE take care of all the clones at once (keep in mind that this is the side effect of Gil & Enkidu clashing, whilst they were holding back).

Black Knight's Ebony sword (which cuts through everything basically)

  • Transmutation
  • Sleep
  • Paralysis
  • Straight up oneshot magic (worked on Vision and Hulk)

Do any of these work on what are essentially magic ghosts made up of Ether?

Speed's...speed (comparable to Quicksilver)

Need more details but from what I'm aware of for Quicksilver his best speed feat is LS and it's hardly consistent, so not enough to truly outspeed with all the amps factored in.

And don't forget the summons and the chi. Or the beans. Or the spider sense. Or the adaptoid's power copying.

None of these are going to matter in this fight. Summons get one-shot, which makes the beans useless, and I doubt Adaptoid could copy the magic of the Nasuverse given just how differently it functions from other systems of the same name, of which I'll cover in my next post.

So far I'm not impressed at the moment, nothing you've shown so far is a threat to me, and it seems likely that you'll become mere bloodstains on Ea sooner rather than later. Hopefully, your next post impresses.

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Awesome

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#17  Edited By WordmanJones

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps:

Alright, I see you. Putting on for ya team. But still....you gots to go.

So this post, I'm a fusion myself. Billy Mays and Uncle (from Jackie Chan Adventures).

God Body

God Body, AKA the muscle, the swiftness, the durability, etc. You get the drill.

Strength of a Raging Fire

Amora is a god. She's not frail or weak, she's a strong single woman who don't need no man, even if she wants one (Thor, Skurge, etc.) On the strength tip, she got two good feats that land her around...mid-tier.

She chokes out Monet (She-Hulk level and super durable/invulnerable to the point that WWHulk just punted her a city away and out of the fight)

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And she backhands She-Hulk like the peasant she is.

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Now multiply it by 11 (like I've been saying), and that's the base strength for BE, aka my character. At least as good as what you've shown, nahmean?

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So BE ain't just Enchantress' strength amped up. Even on the physical tip. She also got Kitty Pryde's density manipulation, an amp that turns a regular behind girl, to a super human. And that's amped up times 11 too.

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She out here mollywhopping Spidey and flexing out of some ice. Now ice at few inches thick takes 70 tons of force to break and...multiply it by 11 fam.

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That thing, that thing, that thi-iing is Iron Fist, known chi master and user of the...Iron Fist.

Which is an amp. Again. You see where this is going right?

Aight so boom, Iron Fist's Iron Fist is on some ish. Since the beginning of time, it's allowed dude to hurt high tiers and send high mid tiers flying.

Exhibit 1: Hulk.

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Exhibit 2: Thing

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Exhibit 3: Drunk Hercules

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Not to mention some other...descriptive feats. Like say,

Busting up a Train. When it had enough BOOM! in it to make nukes look like a sparkler. Also an energy absorption feat.

Destructing Thunderball's wrecking ball.

And, don't think I forgot it fam, the famous Helicarrier punch.

Now multiply that amp tenfold, apply it to Enchantress strength (tenfold), and Kitty's density (tenfold) and you gotta admit that BE got you in pure power. And pure power don't power trip.

Swift as a Coursing River

Speed comes from...Speed. Nahmean? He's the speedster so he's got this. Trust.

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So that's in a fight. Just moving, he runs through countries and searches, in a few seconds.

And can move from NY to Mount Rushmore quickly as well.

You know the drill, multiply by 11x and add on the chi manipulation which allows Iron Fist to catch sniper rounds, and it's simple. I'm faster.

Force of a Great Typhoon?

The song doesn't really have 'Durability' in it but like...you know what I mean.

First thing, Black Panther's suit and his own durability:

He took a hit from Namor during their fight.

Took a barrage of Iron Fists

Taken hits from Iron Man.

Namor Again.

The dopest one, Terrax, herald of Galactus

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Amora has gone 1 on 1 with the Death One: Hela, while Hela was amped with the Twilight Sword, and she survived and got up fam. She also hurt her with her magic.

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Aight so that's the end of God Body. Now for the Phase 2 of the plan.

Phase 2

Now I went light last time, so this round I gotta go in. To say it simple and clean, you can't even hit us my dude. Why? Phasing dawg.

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Obviously, Kitty Pryde can phase, as shown here where she phases through a whole explosion. But that's not it. She can also hit you, while phased, and making sure you can't hit her.

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Three examples, and all of them render your strategy inert. Checkmate 1.

And she can phase ya brains out.

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What else we got?

Ebony Blade

That's right, the Ebony Blade. It cuts through everything and keeps it's user alive.

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Aight so boom. It cuts through some 'beyond comprehension' magical being.

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It cuts through literal time fam. Time.

And it cuts through something made by the Cosmic Cube. You ain't getting past this one.

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And it kept him alive through this:

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Oh and because you mentioned it fam, it blocks adamantium just fine.

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And stops intangibility, cockblocking your ghosts and phantoms bruh. Easy.

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Checkmate 2.

Frequency Vibration

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Speed can destabilize atomic matter, meaning you.

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He did it to a Skrull, and he can become intangible with it. So yet another way to kill you. Checkmate #3

Luck

So Domino's got crazy luck, and Black Cat's got a bad luck aura for her enemies. Basically, you ain't touching me. I could stand still and probably let you defeat yaself. Crazy, I know.

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Boom! Domino making lightning just happen to strike. And I get 11x that luck.

She also makes guns jam and has things like...top secret safes with the combination she can luckily guess and buildings collapsing and ish like that.

Oh and she took out Red Hulk due to luck.

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And Black Cat's bad luck (for opponents) is just on a ridiculous level. Like dude's legit hurt themselves trying to hurt her. Things randomly fall apart. All types of stuff.

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She real live got people tripping and hurting themselves and things collapsing before hitting her. Bullets turned to dust before hitting her. And I got that, but x11.

Checkmate #4

Magic

Well for one thing, Iron Fist can passively and actively absorb magic. So you're out of luck there. Get it? Yeah you get it fam.

Amora...well she's got the juice.

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BOOM! Way I see it, y'all sleep now and getting stabbed up.

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Or you're stone/paralyzed.

And she can slow you down like she did Quicksilver. Now do the math. BE's super fast with clones and magic and phasing and you're being slowed down...sounds like oneshot city to me. Ebony Blade slicing and dicing, chopping, and stabbing.

But she don't even need all that. Since her magic can take you out with pure offensive ability.

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There you go. She cleaning up on Hela, she can clean you up. But...yeah you guessed it.

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She also got other feats like hurting Thor again and again and oneshotting Thing and Hulk.

Now the way I see it, you're nowhere near any of those guys in durability. And my magic powers are now 11x, AND there's a million of me and only 10 of you. So it's looking like a body.

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Dupes

Dupes, or clones are the trump card. Obviously. Everything I showed is x11 for each of them. So that's 11 million times the power, speed, strength, etc. And to be real bruh, nothing you showed can stop a million Black Enchantresses.

Imagine that luck, that magic, those swords, all coming at you at all times, while invisible? And phased? But that's not it. I got some dupe feats too.

Like the time Multiple Man (essentially peak human at best) took on She-Hulk due to pure numbers. Imagine that swarm on you.

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Not to mention that every hit just makes a new Dupe. Even when you're as strong as Thing. Or Blackbolt.Or a blast from Cyclops. And even more dope...

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We can spread damage around, lessening anything 1 million times over.

Oh and I can make a dupe inside of you and have it bust out, killing you. Imagine that with Ebony Blade. Yeugh!

Is that another Checkmate I see? What's that, like #7. Well it is a lucky number...

The Lessons

Time for the counters and the counters to your counters, the lessons. Let me learn you something.

Freezing Space

Really bruh? Did you think this through? There's a million of us. You ain't show close to what's needed to even try that. Not to mention our strength is far too much for you to stop with the feats you've shown. Also that sounds like a good way to get duped.

I'm just being honest.

Not to mention I covered this with phasing and I'll cover it with teleportation too. Just for kicks.

Teleporting

Mind Control

Adamantium

Countered by phasing and the Ebony Blade

Prep

Speed has 5 minutes feel like a week for him when he's doing work.

We got Black Panther's mind x11

Millions of him.

Amora's Transmutation Magic.

And Hawkeye has trick arrows of adamantium and vibranium . And other crazy stuff.

And you're questioning prep? Get out of here.

Dupes vs. Twice's Clones.

You tried but I got Multiple Man making hundreds of thousands of clones and they all on key, with that teamwork. A few anomalies out of the bunch don't over take that. But as for Twice, bruh. That's his entire backstory.

Like Twice's reason he doesn't/didn't like to make a lot of clones is that he one day had a revolt and they almost killed him. Talk about throwing stones in a glass house.

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Invisibility

Now ya cherry picking. You know good and well who Heimdall's supposed to be. But let me learn you.

Let me provide you with examples of his advanced senses.

And one time, he just...sensed an invisible opponent. And guess who saw said invisible thing? Odin.

Your precog is fine but...Amora was able to conceal Thor from Yggdrasil itself, the World Tree, source of life and connector of the Nine Realms.

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Besides all it'd show you is you turning to stone. Or going to sleep. Or being suddenly stabbed from all angles. AKA things you can't do nothing about.

As for being a sitting duck? Nah.

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I uploaded it for you this time. She casually goes invisible while walking. Same with the Heimdall feat.

Adaptoid

Not able to copy your powers? That's cute.

He's copied Wanda's hexes.

And cosmic awareness.

Thor's magical hammer

And most impressively...

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A cosmic cube. And you ain't spit compared to a cosmic cube (even a shard my dude). So nah, you getting copied whether you like it or not.

Oh and the biggest counter and possible checkmate...since you teleport/summon/portal things...

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Her arcane wards prevent teleportation. Even the portal kind that Magik does.

So to be real my dude...you may not even be able to use your weapons. At all.

Oh and it's x11 of course.

These Are The Breaks

A. My strength is on some other ish. Mid tier (Amora) x11 with an amp of low mid tier (Kitty Pryde) x11, and another amp of High mid tier (Iron Fist) x11.

B. My durability's pretty dope too with the vibranium suit and Amora...x11

C. Speed crazy. Add on Chi and multiply both by 11? We got a party. And from what you've shown (somewhere between sound and light), you ain't enough. Especially with us slowing you down.

D. Magic straight taking you out like it did Hulk and Thing and like it hurt Hela and Thor...and it's x11.

Not to mention the transmutation and sleep spells.

E. I'm still invisible to you, cloaked from your senses.

F. Phasing (two types) means you can't hurt me. Along with speed messing you up.

G. Dupes mean if you somehow hit me, more come.

G2. Dupes also merk you by coming out from inside you like Alien.

G3. Dupes also make this impossible as you gotta try to take on a million of us.

H. Ebony Blade cuts through everything including magic, stops intangibility, easily deflects Adamantium, AND keeps us alive. And we all got one.

I. Atomic destabilization means you blowing up,

J. Did I mention the crazy luck I got? x11 of course? Makes things randomly break down and miss and for bad things to happen to my opponents? And all 1 million of us got it?

K. You getting ya powers copied too. Because Adaptoid's copied magic, and a cosmic cube before. So...nah, you gets nothing there.

L. You taking one this time bruh. Sorry. Take the L, and act like I'm Diddy (Take that, take that!)

And I ain't even mention the chi healing yet. Or the Senzu beans. Both of which means not only do I got 1 million of us, cloaked, and unable to die, but we got multiple tries at this. Nor did I touch on Hawkeye's crazy arrows. So it's like...a super L.

Unless you think you can beat a million of...yourself. Combined into one. With all of our powers too. Who's invisible, fast, intangible, heals, unkillable, etc. But we both know...that's a no for you dawg.

Until next time...

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Ending Another Age of Gods:

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She chokes out Monet (She-Hulk level and super durable/invulnerable to the point that WWHulk just punted her a city away and out of the fight) And she backhands She-Hulk like the peasant she is. Now multiply it by 11 (like I've been saying), and that's the base strength for BE, aka my character. At least as good as what you've shown, nahmean?

Once again, you've shown me no reason as to why I should be impressed by this due to not providing any sort of feats for She-Hulk.

So BE ain't just Enchantress' strength amped up. Even on the physical tip. She also got Kitty Pryde's density manipulation, an amp that turns a regular behind the girl, to a superhuman. And that's amped up times 11 too. She out here mollywhopping Spidey and flexing out of some ice. Now ice at few inches thick takes 70 tons of force to break and...multiply it by 11 fam.

So it increases your strength by 770ish tons? Hate to say it, but that's pathetically low by this tier's standard, let alone when compared to either Merlin's or Medea's amp, both of whom are more in line with straight multipliers of stats rather than just adding on some additional tons of force.

Aight so boom, Iron Fist's Iron Fist is on some ish. Since the beginning of time, it's allowed dude to hurt high tiers and send high mid tiers flying.

This seems like this is going to become a running trend, but you've proven once more that you seem incapable of showing why hurting people is considered impressive. And whilst I don't know enough about Hercules to judge him, I know for a damn fact that aside from World Breaker Hulk (which clearly isn't this), neither Bruce nor Thing have done planetary level feats consistently, which brings me into my next issue:

Busting up a Train. When it had enough BOOM! in it to make nukes look like a sparkler. Also an energy absorption feat. Destructing Thunderball's wrecking ball. And, don't think I forgot it fam, the famous Helicarrier punch.

The feats you posted here actually hurt you more than it helps since it exposes the big issue I have with this. Consistency. Now, whilst this is a bit hard to pinpoint exactly you plan on scaling Danny's punching power to since, again, you provided nothing for Hulk, Thing or Herc, it's pretty safe to say that destroying a Hellicarrier is far below their pay grade. This puts you into an interesting predicament, as whilst you tried to show Iron Fist as this high tier, his showings that don't require scaling don't even come close to that level, so you either have to prove these high tier showings are consistent or settle for a low-mid tier at best. And since you've shown more low-mid tier feats than high tier in this post, you better get cracking soon on that consistency. And I'd prefer concrete feats over scaling across multiple eras & writers.

Now multiply that amp tenfold, apply it to Enchantress strength (tenfold), and Kitty's density (tenfold) and you gotta admit that BE got you in pure power. And pure power don't power trip.

A low-mid amp at best isn't doing anything noteworthy to someone on Gil's tier. The same applies to Kitty only even weaker, especially not when compared to Medea & Merlin's hard stat increases.

Speed comes from...Speed. Nahmean? He's the speedster so he's got this. Trust.

Make that strike number #3 of you not attempt to quantify why dodging/hurting characters is impressive.

So that's in a fight. Just moving, he runs through countries and searches, in a few seconds.

Let's do some math here to prove how unimpressive this is:

We know thanks to what William says that Speed traveled from Genosha to The Wundagore Mountain, which, at least according to the sources I could find, are located around Northeast Madagascar & Southeast Europe respectively. With this in mind, whilst I admittedly couldn't find a distance for those specific areas, the distance between the middle of Madagascar & Europe is about 5,702.74 miles.

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With this in mind, we can out this value into a speed calculator & assuming the time Speed took to be only 1 second (for best case scenario), and see that it put him at 33,039,613 km/h. It sounds like a big number on paper, right? Well sadly, it ain't.

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My reasoning for this is that if we convert that speed into mach, we can see that Speed was only moving at quint mach speeds, so whilst this feat is impressive in its own right when compared to relativistic speeds that Gil can casually pull out, it's nothing to write home about. For reference, the bare minimum needed to be considered relativistic (1/10th the speed of light) is 6 digit mach, so you've got quite the gap to cover up how far above Gilgamesh is to base relativistic.

And can move from NY to Mount Rushmore quickly as well.

And let's do the same thing with this feat as we did the last feat.

We know the distance between NY & Mount Rushmore is about 1735.8 miles (technically it's 1522 but let's highball it and use driving miles for the sake of argument), and let's also assume Speed did this in 1 second flat, again, for the sake of argument.

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Going by S/D/T calcs, you'd be going at 6248880 mph to cover that kind of distance in 1 second.

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And if convert that kind of speed, you get....only Mach 8000 rounded up i.e. high-end quad mach. I don't think I need to explain how that's hilariously low compared to light speed if quint mach isn't enough. This low result also brings up yet another consistency issue for you, as you have 2 feats of seemingly similar levels of eas that Speed pulled it off, but they have quite a large gap in-between them, so some more consistency will help.

And even beyond all of this, both of these feats are purely in terms of travel speed, and wouldn't reflect how they can react & fight in any way. So in terms of both actual speed & type of speed, both of these feats aren't impressive in the slightest & completely useless in the face of a light-speed opponent like the 10 Gilgamesh's' coming for you all at once.

He took a hit from Namor during their fight.Took a barrage of Iron FistsTaken hits from Iron Man. Namor Again. The dopest one, Terrax, herald of Galactus. Amora has gone 1 on 1 with the Death One: Hela, while Hela was amped with the Twilight Sword, and she survived and got up fam. She also hurt her with her magic.

Holy consistency issues, Batman. Even ignoring how you showed absolutely nothing for any of them (seems like a tradition at this point), your jumping from street level/low-mid Iron Fist, to mid-tiers like Namor & Tony. All of these characters act on basically entirely different tiers, and you need to decide on which one he operates within.

Amora has gone 1 on 1 with the Death One: Hela, while Hela was amped with the Twilight Sword, and she survived and got up fam. She also hurt her with her magic.

As I keep saying, no reason why I should be impressed, nor have you shown any signs of consistency.

Now I went light last time, so this round I gotta go in. To say it simple and clean, you can't even hit us my dude. Why? Phasing dawg.

Not an issue whatsoever.

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It's been stated that Gate of Babylon legitimate copies of every single Noble Phantasm, even including something like Cu Chulainn's Gae Bolg, which wasn't around during the times before Gilgamesh became a servant. With this in mind, it's pretty easy to use all the Noble Phantasms throughout the Nasuverse as weapons that Gilgamesh can use whenever the situation calls for it.

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With that in mind, Gae Bolg itself is perfect for this, as not only does the wounds it create not heal probably, but its main gimmick is that the thrust quite literally reverses cause & effect to guarantee it hits. Simply put, if Kitty hasn't been able to phase through something with such a niche & powerful effect like this, you're still getting a light-speed, mountain busting, adamantium spear to the chest. And of course, there's the nature of Ea could also pose a problem for you, as afaik Kitty has never phased through something that's both well above planet level & rips apart the very fabric of time & space.

And she can phase ya brains out.

Does she have any spiritual properties that can help bypass Servant intangibility? If not, this is completely useless.

Aight so boom. It cuts through some 'beyond comprehension' magical being.

Couldn't get any more vague & unquantifiable if you tried.

It cuts through literal time fam. Time.

Not all that irrelevant within this fight.

And it cuts through something made by the Cosmic Cube. You ain't getting past this one.

Again, is this showing both consistent & could you quantify your showings?

And it kept him alive through this:

Ea will be doing a lot worse than this.

Oh and because you mentioned it fam, it blocks adamantium just fine.

No offense, but it doesn't even seem you read my part of the post in regards to adamantium. I'll repost what I said:

Keep in mind that Wolverine, who's a high supersonic double-digit tonner at the best of times, is capable of piercing some of Marvel's top dogs with his adamantium claws, ranging from Thor & Mangog to even Thanos. Now imagine this kind of piercing power, except instead of a street leveler, it's being used by a light-speed mountain buster with a bunch of wacky effects and you can see where I'm going with this. Simply put, I'd be shocked to see if your team had the piercing capabilities to take a hit from any of Gil's weaponry.

My Opener

I painted a very clear picture of these adamantium weapons being laughably stronger than Logan's (unless you wanna prove Wolverine's raw physical strength, without adamantium, is mountain level.), so this counter is once again, hardly relevant.

And stops intangibility, cockblocking your ghosts and phantoms bruh. Easy.

2 very different kinds of intangibility.

Avenger Vol 1 #58
Avenger Vol 1 #58

Vision's powers work by increasing & decreasing his density to achieve intangibility. Now compare that too servant intangibility, which has I stressed in my opener is due to them being made up of an entirely different form of energy compared to normal people & are spiritual in-nature, and it's night & day. So saying you can hurt my servants because of Vision is a bit of a stretch in my eyes.

He did it to a Skrull, and he can become intangible with it. So yet another way to kill you. Checkmate #3

Not gonna work for already established ether bodies.

Boom! Domino making lightning just happen to strike. And I get 11x that luck. She also makes guns jam and has things like...top secret safes with the combination she can luckily guess and buildings collapsing and ish like that.

The problem with this is rather simple. All of Domino's & Black Cat's luck aftereffects have a root cause & a reason for them happening (gun jamming/falling, tripping over oneself, etc). However, the problem in the case of this debate is rather pedestrian, in that their's nothing really to change or anything that bad luck can affect. Gate of Babylon can't jam, Gil chooses every weapon that comes out of it + manually controls them, so it's not like they can clash with all the other weapons or anything. He doesn't move around during combat, none of his NPs can just stop working, there are so many different aspects behind Gil's kit that luck simply can't affect. The most I can see is the projectiles missing, but again, Ea's AoE more than covers for them.

Simply put, you need to prove that their's anything relevant that these 2's luck powers would even effect that would be relevant in the grand scheme of things, otherwise this is useless.

Well for one thing, Iron Fist can passively and actively absorb magic. So you're out of luck there. Get it? Yeah you get it fam.

Consistently & on a planetary scale? Somehow I doubt it.

Amora...well she's got the juice.

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I contacted the OP & confirmed that putting people to sleep counts as TP, and since I have TP Immunity, this is flat out useless.

Or you're stone/paralyzed.

Fourtanetly, Gilgamesh has several outs to this.

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For one thing, Gilgamesh has a mirror-like weapon that actively reflects magic, so if you try this there's a high likelihood of it being sent right back to the sender. And naturally, he can summon these weapons out during prep

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However, another subtler reason is one of Gilgamesh's passive skills, Magic Resistance A, the very same that Mash has, of which I mentioned in my opener.

Another thing worth establishing is something else that I haven't touched yet, that being Gil's golden suit of armor. Truth be told, it isn't just for show, as it's capable of neutralizing some levels of magecraft.

Fate/Zero Episode 24 & 25
Fate/Zero Episode 24 & 25

This is best shown off when Gil was capable of being right in the middle of a point-blank slash from Saber's Excalibur, an attack so powerful it rips opponents down on an atomic level, yet Gil came out of it like nothing ever happened. Between this & Magic resistance, it should show that Gil will be capable of resisting Enchantress' magic if you have nothing more impressive than transmuting seemingly regular people.

Also y'know, proving that she can transmute beings made up of a material that doesn't exist in the Marvel universes would also help.

There you go. She cleaning up on Hela, she can clean you up. But...yeah you guessed it.

Consistency & Quantification plz.

She also got other feats like hurting Thor again and again and oneshotting Thing and Hulk.

I doubt any of these are relative, due to not only none of them wielding piercing weapons, let alone strong as the ones Gil got, but Thor's best feats are planetary IIRC, which is simply a step below Gilgamesh & Ea.

Like the time Multiple Man (essentially peak human at best) took on She-Hulk due to pure numbers. Imagine that swarm on you.

I can imagine it, I can also imagine all of them getting one-shot by Ea or Gae Bolg.

We can spread damage around, lessening anything 1 million times over.

I'd need to see how impressive this is to see if it'd matter in the grand scheme of things.

Freezing Space Teleporting Mind Control

Quickly just to go over these, you can have these small victories. I was never banking of this to begin & was moreso there just for some extra flavor, but this won't affect my overall plan, nor the fight itself. However:

And faster than thought too.

Gil has this too:

"The twin turbofan engine, receiving Berserker's alien power, gave off a monstrous roar. The black F15 used its acceleration to exponentially increase its relative velocity, breaking through a gap in the tightly-knit screen of Noble Phantasms.

However, Archer's Noble Phantasms did not lose their lethality simply because they were avoided. Three out of the six - an axe, a scythe, and a scimitar - immediately spun, changing direction and closing in on the F15's tail.

Just as they were about to hit, the black F15 writhed its ailerons and flaps like a living creature, escaping the blade edges of Archer's Noble Phantasms with aerodynamically impossible abruptness. With a second, then a third barrel roll, the barrage of Noble Phantasms scattered away into the sky. The intense G's of the first spin was enough to instantly kill Captain Ōgi in the cockpit, rupturing his internal organs; but of course, this was just a trifle for Berserker.

As soon as it dodged all the attacks, the F15 forcibly performed an Immelmann Turn and aimed its nose towards Archer, the pylons under its wings sputtering the flames of rocket motors. Two Sparrow missiles attacked Archer's Vimana with vengeance.

Although ordinary weapons would be useless in a battle of Servants, the weapons that Berserker corroded were of a different caliber. Carrying the prana of hatred, every single shot of the twenty-six-pound explosives had an annihilating might.

"How impertinent..."

Archer boldly smiled and placed his hand on the Vimana's helm. Immediately, the ark of light accelerated and evaded the missiles' attack with an elegance that Berserker's brute force control can never compare with. The legendary flying Noble Phantasm, crossing the sky at the speed of thought, has already surpassed the laws of physics. "

Fate/Zero: Act 10 Part 2

Another one of Gil's Noble Phantasms is Vimana, an aircraft vehicle which Gilgamesh controls directly, at a speed which is directly called "the speed of thought". So yeah, Gil can apply these kinds of speed extremely casually.

Like Twice's reason he doesn't/didn't like to make a lot of clones is that he one day had a revolt and they almost killed him. Talk about throwing stones in a glass house.

My Hero Academia Chapter 230
My Hero Academia Chapter 230

At the beginning of the series, this was true, however, due to (relatively) recent events in the manga, Twice has overcome his mental hurdle and is now more than willing to duplicate himself as many times as he wants. It's also worth mentioning that this mental hangup only applied to cloning himself, as he's never had any issues with cloning other people before.

Now ya cherry picking. You know good and well who Heimdall's supposed to be.

I know who he is, what he's capable of is another story. Not everyone in this site reads comics, believe it or not. And even then, it's your job as a debater to provide that, not just assume everyone knows everything.

Let me provide you with examples of his advanced senses. And one time, he just...sensed an invisible opponent. And guess who saw said invisible thing? Odin.

Decent senses, but tricking senses or seeing invisible dudes with no feats provided & tricking an inhuman doll made of clay using the very earth as sonar are 2 very different things that can't be compared.

Your precog is fine but...Amora was able to conceal Thor from Yggdrasil itself, the World Tree, source of life and connector of the Nine Realms.

And that effects seeing into the future, how exactly?

Besides all it'd show you is you turning to stone. Or going to sleep. Or being suddenly stabbed from all angles. AKA things you can't do nothing about.

I already showed that Gil's precog shows every future. That means every win, defeat, plan of attack & many other factors will all be seen by the King of Heroes' all-seeing eyes. It's only natural that one of those futures will show Gil he's fighting invisible opponents, especially with Sha Naqba Imuru backing him up.

I uploaded it for you this time. She casually goes invisible while walking. Same with the Heimdall feat.

Again, you completely miss what I was trying to say. This is Enchantress' casual invisibility, o e where no one is watching her atm, contrasted by her feat against Odin and it's the complete opposite, with both Loki & Odin risking the chance of spotting her, she is taking her invisibility much more seriously & putting a lot more effort into it. Her serious facial expression is further proof of her mentality when performing these actions.

Not able to copy your powers? That's cute.

The thing with this is that the very nature of the Nasuverse's magic & magecraft is simply too divergent from other medians, to the point where unless Adaptoid has copied something with basically all of the Nasuverse's traits, saying he could copy magic doesn't feel right to me.

Now there's a LOT that can be covered to differentiate Nasuverse's power system, so much so that I could write a 10,000-word essay on it and not even scratch the surface. So instead of that, I'm going to cop-out of this part and just link a video explaining the basics of the magical energy, as that is the most relevant to this debate (and tbh this video explains it better than I could). But to Tl;Dr the video, between Od, Mana, Prana, Magic Circuits & many, many more factors, there's simply way too many differences between Fate/'s magic system & Marvels' to where it's quite a stretch to say that adapted could copy it since he's never copied anything like it.

Oh and the biggest counter and possible checkmate...since you teleport/summon/portal things...

Gil would have already summoned his weapons during prep, so she'll never get the chance to just say "no portals", even without considering Magic Resistance.

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@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps:

Wrapping It Up

I'mma be real with you dog, almost none of the physical stuff matters given my numbers, healing, and the Ebony Blade. So I'll touch it up a bit, but it's mostly going to be hidden.

The real deal is that I'm winning regardless because you ain't got no way to deal with a million foes, all with my stats (no matter what they are) all that can make MORE clones, and can copy your powers. And the Ebony Blade and other magic ain't helping you.

The sad fact is, fam, you're facing a million killers all with one shot powers, and every hit you land just makes more. We don't die, we multiply.You could be light speed and I could be mach 10 and you still wouldn't be fast enough to survive. Precog (Which is suspect) or not.

Hidden Dragon (Strength, Durability, Scaling)

I'mma state off jump that this doesn't matter all that much, since Ebony Blade's taking you out regardless of strength. And if any readers already know how strong and durable She-Hulk, Hercules, Thing, etc. are then you're good. No need to bore yourselves to death. Just peak at the end or something. That said I disagree on a base level that one needs to show feats for every person they scale off, when it's covered under common sense and knowledge. That said, the rabbit hole...

Strength/Durability Scaling

Enchantress choked out Monet and took a blitz from her.

Monet matches She-Hulk. And hurts her.

She's also durable enough that WWHulk punted her to another state.

She-Hulk hurt Thor. She also punched/hurt Sentry. And drew blood from WWHulk. And hurt/overpowered Classic Drax. And is as strong with one arm as Thing with two. And of course

Iron Fist hurt Thing(Previously shown) and Thing hurt Hulk and took his hit. So both Enchantress and Iron Fist are scaling. Also scaled off of Hercules. Here is Hercules and Thor matching each other. And Thor and Hercules arm wrestling so hard the planet is thrown out of orbit.

Black Panther had feats fighting with and hurting and taking punches from Namor. Namor has fought and beaten Hulk over the years (albeit in water).

This city/island is what Namor lifted for a moment. Namor KO's Wolverine in a punch. Impressive because Hulk has punched him across states and...not. Namor fights through Cyclop's huge blast. Impressive because it blows up mountain-like icebergs and has enough force to rip apart a small planet. Namor has of course, taken Hulk's hits. And he's hurt Sentry who matched Thor and WWHulk. And Hercules.

Scaling to Hercules and Namor and She-Hulk...Thor's hits have busted planets with their shockwaves. He also withstands the weight of 20 planets. And overpowers the gravity of a Neutron Star.

Sentry fought WWHulk and took his hits.

Hulk's easily planet to star level.

So overall, Iron Fist and Enchantress tangled with mid tiers who can tangle with high tiers who are planet to star level.

Hope that's enough scaling for you broham. And remember kids, it's all x11 (Enchantress restraining Monet and Iron Fist's scaling to Thing,, Hercules, and Hulk).

Rebuttal/Amps

So it increases your strength by 770ish tons?

Nah fam you're not paying attention. Quick breakdown. Kitty's a normal girl so let's be really, really generous and give her grown man strength and say 180lbs. You acknowledged she gets her stuff through density so...at 70 tons that's..8555 times more dense bruh. That's a multiplier.

And funny thing is, I didn't even get her best feats. Like once giant, staggering Galactus (Could be argued as PIS so I won't bother), and staggering Ultimate Thing. And Ultimate Thing has taken punches from and matched Hyperion. Who does this.

Oh and it gives some durability (guy breaks his hand on her).

Take it with the chi, and the 11x mid tier (which, let's be real is arguably high tier already), gets a 8000x boost. Yikes. Now you're facing a million people waaay stronger than you. You messed up fam.

Crouching Tiger (Speed, Ebony Blade, Magic, Scaling)

Speed

So you throw out speed feats and the term relativistic but...relativistic is 10% light speed. So Mach 87,000 roughly (Light speed is 870,000 roughly).

To be real, your feats don't even suggest that. Just somewhere past sound, and 'approaching' light could mean anything man. Could mean hypersonic. Could mean massively hypersonic, and at most it means relativistic and that's being generous.

And thank you for your calculations, because as you remember, I get 11x Speed's speed so even with your lowest calc, that's around... Mach 88,000. Casually. Uh oh. You see it now? And with ya other calc I'm at what? 286,000? That's an easy speed advantage to me.

Add in the chi which lets peak humans catch bullets from behind? To outpace bullets arguably? And x11? Well it's not that much, but it helps.

Basically. I'm faster. Case Closed.

Magic Scaling

Hela...can easily block Kurse's attack. Kurse started out 2x stronger than Thor and got amped further by the Beyonder. Proven when he beat Belt of Strength Thor (2x multiplier IIRC) to death almost.

Hela's blasts can cross dimensional barriers and travel light speed and beyond.

She also is rival to Blackheart and Mephisto. It should be noted that Mephisto has galaxy level feats in his realm and can stop time and see alternate realities (and Blackheart did take it from him once).

Hela can transcend space and time too. And again.

Alongside Mephisto and other Hell Lords, they summon the Demogorge and shake the cosmos themselves.

She can also defend against Doctor Strange (and has redirected his spells/taken control of them)

And Strange has destroyed an entire dimension at least back then in those days.

Thor has taken an explosion that destroyed a ship described to be the size of a small world. He's also taken a rock with the weight of Midgard/Earth. Taken blasts from Blastaar, who's a planet buster. And taken a blast from Thanos that destroyed a world.

And Amora the Enchantress was hurting him with her blasts and keeping him down. Now multiply that by 11 fam. You see the trouble you in. And she matched and hurt Hela too, even KOing her at one point.

As for Yggdrasil

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Here it is, it is the cosmos themselves.

And Dr. Strange himself tried to use it to find someone, implying that it's used for exactly that, and is beyond his normal powers. Amora hid Thor from that from the cosmos themselves and made them think he was dead. Don't see your precog or senses helping against that. Especially when hanging from Yggdrasil gives one vision/sight into the future. And beyond it.

Also thought I'd throw in a bonus of Odin, using his omniscience. The same Odin she tricked.

Other Magic

Aight so boom, got a few more things to show for Amora, and dope asf.

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BOOM. KO'd Vision and it would've killed Thor, a god.

Vision has survived blasts from the Phoenix Force, and made Hyperion (matched a planet buster in Gladiator) bounce off of him.

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Her summon army can restrain Thor, if for only a second. All we need to gank you at super speed my guy.

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Constructs match Hercules (again for only a moment, and again all we need to slice and dice).

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Another showing of armies she can summon. Yes ethereal beings as well, and able to restrain Ghost Rider (again, for a moment).

And since you make it such a big deal...

Spirits/Soul Magic/Ethereal

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She frees her sister's soul from its bonds.

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She seals a spirit (of an Asgardian mind you) into a sword.

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She manipulates Magik's darkside and desires and gives it physical form. Long story short, fam? You getting taken out by her magic.

Ebony Blade

It still cuts everything. Like Olympian weaponry (gods). And spells. And planet level spells that bind even the Hulk. And transmutation. And transmutation again. And forcefields. And Titans (Zeus level), and Terminus (planet level and beyond), and...a sword made by the literal Beyonder. A multiversal reality warper. And a weaker/false version cut through dimensional walls. Yep. It's the ultimate cutting tool.

But wait, there's more!

Another big one, just for you fam, it absorbs and turns Zeus' lightning back on himself.

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Big boy stuff. 'Specially seeing as how Zeus' lightning be hurting Galactus and ish.

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Not to mention...you can't kill me without the right blade, because of it. And just try to take it and use it against me. mmmnope. Doesn't work.

Other

Oh and since I mentioned it before...we can heal with the chi fam. But like...x11 of course.

And with a senzu bean which can heal a hole in the body. Energy (from crawling). Teeth (and other non-serious injuries). Supposedly an arm? A broken neck, too. So basically each clone got 5 lives, on top of all the other ish.

Oh and we got pre-cog too. Minor, but spidey sense does help with a lot. Especially dodging.

Spider-Sense description of freeze framing everything.

Evading an ambush.

Dodging an invisible attack. Teleporting too.

And...space/time?

And of course, we got Hawkeye's trick arrows. Note the Chaos Magic. And also the Hellfire-infused. And Hellfire weakens magic enchantments and seems to hit spirits just fine (obviously given Ghost Rider's opponents).

So on top of the speed, we got the senses too. It's almost overwhelming what we got.

Re-Mix

As in counters.

It's been stated that Gate of Babylon legitimate copies of every single Noble Phantasm, even including something like Cu Chulainn's Gae Bolg, which wasn't around during the times before Gilgamesh became a servant. With this in mind, it's pretty easy to use all the Noble Phantasms throughout the Nasuverse as weapons that Gilgamesh can use whenever the situation calls for it.

Nah fam that sounds like a super reach. Like a monumental reach. Your own scan says the weapon only belongs to Lancer. Get that all the way the hell out of here.

...its main gimmick is that the thrust quite literally reverses cause & effect to guarantee it hits. Simply put, if Kitty hasn't been able to phase through something with such a niche & powerful effect like this, you're still getting a light-speed, mountain busting, adamantium spear to the chest. And of course, there's the nature of Ea could also pose a problem for you, as afaik Kitty has never phased through something that's both well above planet level & rips apart the very fabric of time & space.

That's a strong behind claim with nothing backing it up. It's actually the opposite. YOU need feats of hitting intangible/phased people. And for the record, Kitty has phased through Galactus' technology, which is pretty much on that level. If not above it, considering Galactus eats planets and the entire purpose of the tech was to absorb the Ultimate Universe. And the plan by the super geniuses by the way, was to have Kitty phase through it and disrupt it. So...nah. Nice try though.

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Does she have any spiritual properties that can help bypass Servant intangibility? If not, this is completely useless.

Enchantress has magic. And we got the the Ebony Blade. And remember, they're fused.

No offense, but it doesn't even seem you read my part of the post in regards to adamantium. I'll repost what I said:

It's actually very relevant bruh. We too are stronger than Black Knight and have luck on our side so...yeah it applies.

Vision's powers work by increasing & decreasing his density to achieve intangibility. Now compare that too servant intangibility, which has I stressed in my opener is due to them being made up of an entirely different form of energy compared to normal people & are spiritual in-nature

Irrelevant unless you can prove the difference fam. And like...I showed both magic, and the Vision thing. Not to mention cutting through a pure magic wall beyond comprehension and Time itself. Time. Itself. That's far above what you've shown bruh. Admit it.

Simply put, you need to prove that their's anything relevant that these 2's luck powers would even effect that would be relevant in the grand scheme of things, otherwise this is useless.

First thing's first, you're wrong. Their stuff makes no sense. Machines randomly fall apart and bullets turn to dust. So what can they do? Easy.

1. Gil's distracted, throws the weapon wrong.

or

2. The weapon ricochets and comes back to stab Gil.

or

3. The magic spells/amps fail and/or blow up, or backfire.

or

4. The weapons simply blow up or turn to dust before they hit me, as shown before.

or

5. I trip everytime and dodge the weapon, luckily for me.

or

etc.

Luck always plays a part. Ya not going to downplay it here fam. And for you and the audience's benefit, here's Luck/probability manipulation/hexes affecting magic (even Enchantresses) in the Marvel Universe, and stopping momentum of a projectile. At best (for me) it's just pure luck/probability manipulation. At worst, it's the combination of magic and luck/probability manipulation (which I still got, either way).

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Boom! Spell by Loki backfires (Hero Reborn universe, but it's still luck/probbaility vs. magic fam)

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And Bam! Absorbing and canceling magic, again through luck my dude.

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Turning back magic again, through Hex/Probability Manipulation, and yes this works on Enchantress, so the level of magic it scales to is extreme fam.

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And just for some flavor, luck can even...cause random agonizing pain. There's no escape, only acceptance bruh. Admit it.

For one thing, Gilgamesh has a mirror-like weapon that actively reflects magic, so if you try this there's a high likelihood of it being sent right back to the sender. And naturally, he can summon these weapons out during prep

They got any feats? Somehow I doubt it. And you can't prep for what you don't know...so nah.

However, another subtler reason is one of Gilgamesh's passive skills, Magic Resistance A, the very same that Mash has, of which I mentioned in my opener.

Another thing worth establishing is something else that I haven't touched yet, that being Gil's golden suit of armor. Truth be told, it isn't just for show, as it's capable of neutralizing some levels of magecraft.

This is best shown off when Gil was capable of being right in the middle of a point-blank slash from Saber's Excalibur, an attack so powerful it rips opponents down on an atomic level, yet Gil came out of it like nothing ever happened. Between this & Magic resistance, it should show that Gil will be capable of resisting Enchantress' magic if you have nothing more impressive than transmuting seemingly regular people.

Bruh, if this ain't a reach and a half. Nowhere does it say it rips opponents on the atomic level. It says that all of the opponent is affected. That's every attack. Even real life fire changes atoms forever. This ish ain't impressive? What is you on fam?

Also y'know, proving that she can transmute beings made up of a material that doesn't exist in the Marvel universes would also help.

Dang bruh, reach of the century? You're magical energy in the form of a construct. Stop pretending you're special.

Gil has this too:

But I got this x11.

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So like...who's winning that? Me? Yeah thought so.

The Breakdown

Strength: On the other side? Vague. Maybe mountain, maybe planet. Strength on my side? Mid tier/She-Hulk level x11, plus a 8000x density amp, and an 11x chi manipulation amp. Advantage: Me.

Speed: Again, shaky on the other side. Relativistic at best (Mach 87,000), somewhere near hypersonic is more likely. But my side has clear numbers of Mach 280,000 plus whatevern Chi brings. Advantage: Me again.

Durability: Really, if we're really real, everything's pretty shaky on the other side due to the weird combination of feats (I know fam, pot and kettle). But we got at least Hela level magic survival feats x11. And we got phasing (through super tech and whatnot)...x11. Advantage: Me.

Luck: I mean this is cheating since I'm the only one with it. x11, and the other side got bad luck x11 so...I'm washing it up here. I got control ALL the probabilities and possibilities here my dude. Advantage: Me by a million. Funny because...

Clones: Other side has ten decent clones, made by a weak dude who gets taken out immediately, No real proof it helps with the summoning of weapons... verdict is shaky. My side, a million clones, durability to take hits from Thing and blasts from Cyclops. Each hit makes more of me. Inherent to my ONE Fused character. Advantage: Me by a million again.

Healing/Regen: I got senzus and chi healingx11, so again...

Invisibility/Precog: Could go either way really, depending on his feats. Then again, Amora's fooled the literal universe/cosmos, as well as Heimdall and Odin, and I got her powers tenfold so...betting on me.

Summons: A wash. But my numbers nullify any advantage they could have.

Magic Power: Other side's got good weapons and some decent other magic, though the points have been conceded for the most part. I got transmutation, paralysis, pure power, ethereal magic, etc. And all tenfold. Advantage: Me by a million due to hurting the likes of Hela and Thor. And multiplying that by tenfold.

Weapon: Not gonna lie, this is pretty good. Other side got adamantium and magic weaponry (some, not every single weapon in the verse like is claimed), and I got forcefields, vibranium suits, and the Ebony Blade. Difference is my weapon gives me immortality and slices everything so... Advantage: Me.

Other/Power Copying: Super Adaptoid also copies everything the other side has. So it's not only a million copies of what I've shown, but a million copies of themselves. Light bars.

X-Factors

Real Live, there's a few things that just win it for me dawg, if we're being straight. A few things you can't get around.

X-Factor 1: Luck/Probability Manipulation.

Let's be real. Controlling probabilities to the point that bullets turn to dust on contact, that lightning strikes the correct target, that computers explode, etc. and multiplying that by 11, while applying one side to me and one side to your bad luck is just...way to much fam.

X-Factor 2: The clones/dupes/Ever growing Numbers (Starting at a million)

For real, for real, it's just impossible for you to put a million of my dudes/girls/BEs down before getting sliced 10 times or hit by 10 magic spells and so on fam. Especiall when literally any energy, any hit, just makes more. It will always be a 10 on a million battle, except your 10 get worn down much quicker due to Twice dying much easier.

X-Factor 3: Power Copying

And of course, I got everything you got due to Super Adaptoid's feats of copying cosmic and magical powers. So it's literally just Gilgamesh and crew vs. 1,000,000 BE (Black Enchantress, my fused character AKA everyone x11) w/ Giglamesh and crews powers.

X-Factor 4: Ebony Blade - Immortality and a blade that cuts through energy/magic/cosmic energy/etc.

Yeah fam, that's the story. Because of the Ebony Blade, I can essentially cut through you and any defenses like butter, and you can't kill me when I'm wielding it. On top of everything else...

It's literally impossible to win fam.

The Point of It All

I win mostly due to a few things:

A. Numbers. A million vs. 10 is too much, especially when the million is multiplying and honestly, dude hasn't even shown a way to kill a million people, and definitely not a million on BE's level, with the durability, invisibility, spells, etc. Not to mention each hit from a weapon, if it can penetrate the defenses and luck and ish, would literally just make another BE to fight, meaning my numbers never go down.

B. Magic potency. Hurting skyfathers and Thor level beings is more than has been shown on the other side.

C. Invisibility. Worse than a million opponents is a million invisible opponents.

D. Speed. Worse than that, is a million opponents around 1/4 the speed of light if not faster. And with the spider sense?

E. Phasing. And building on the bad, is an opponent ya can't hit. That can phase through high level Galactus technology.

F. Ebony Blade. Add on a sword that absorbs and cuts magic, cuts forcefields, cut dimensional walls, plus immortality to speed and numbers and invisibility?

G. Copying the opponents powers. The worst just got worse.

H. Healing/Senzu/Immortality. A million of all that...that can't be put down comfortably or easily.

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Closer: Mystical Mages

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That said I disagree on a base level that one needs to show feats for every person they scale off, when it's covered under common sense and knowledge.

That's not how it works at all. Especially with how inconsistent comics can be, you have to provide context to why the characters your scaling too & how that affects the character's your repping, otherwise you're just listing off names with no real point. Not everyone reads comics, ya know., especially not when a good chunk of feats you use are from pretty old issues.

She's also durable enough that WWHulk punted her to another state.

Getting hit to another state isn't impressive by mid-tier standards, let alone where Gil is at, so even with an 11x boosts this isn't anything worth noting.

She-Hulk hurt Thor.

I wouldn't exactly call that being hurt since Thor got right back up like nothing even happened in the next page (the only reason he had a headache was due to Kang's influence, not She-Hulks' strength).

She also punched/hurt Sentry.

The same thing applies to Sentry as I did with Thor, he got back up more pissed off than hurt, so not exactly the greatest anchor for scaling.

And hurt/overpowered Classic Drax.

Provided nothing for him to convince me it's impressive.

And is as strong with one arm as Thing with two.

Purely in lifting strength, striking is a whole other beast which she wouldn't scale too solely based on this.

Iron Fist hurt Thing(Previously shown)

It's here with Danny that'd I'd like to point out another issue I have with this scaling, consistency. Simply put, there's a massive gap between the type of scaling your using & Danny's standalone feats (the latter being much more valuable in regards to discussion how strong a character is. So whilst you have shown 1 piece of scaling that puts Danny at planetary levels, I can show you a lot more feats that don't even come close to that level, and from a serious Danny no less. Such examples being from Iron Fist - Powerman V1 #48's building level hit, Iron Fist Volume 4 #6 taking multiple morals off chi punches to shake a building, hell even the hellicarrier feat you posted earlier proves my point. There are simply way too many inconsistencies with this kind of scaling for me to go along with it.

Also scaled off of Hercules.

You didn't even show the scan for this proving this is legit...

And Thor and Hercules arm wrestling so hard the planet is thrown out of orbit.

Given how this is a shared feat, based on this alone I wouldn't put either of them at planet level given how it required both of them using their full strength to achieve this. Also, again, this is lifting strength, not striking strength or durability.

Black Panther had feats fighting with and hurting and taking punches from Namor.

Nice of you to show the scans that support this, but beyond that, the same issue I have with Danny carries over to T'challa, that being that their's just as many standalone feats for T'challa that'd greatly contradict this. So I don't buy into this scaling, nor do I feel the need to go over the feats for Namor you posted.

Hulk's easily planet to star level.

This goes back to the consistency issue, albeit from different angles. My issue with this is that your one-minute painting Hulk at planet level, then jumping way up to Star level. That's a humungous gap between showings, and not at all consistent, which doesn't give me or the voters anything close to a good viewpoint of what level you're arguing him at.

Hope that's enough scaling for you broham. And remember kids, it's all x11 (Enchantress restraining Monet and Iron Fist's scaling to Thing,, Hercules, and Hulk).

Yeah, this ain't enough. All of what you've done here is nothing but obnoxious scaling which is plagued with inconsistencies, overhype of showings & generally all the issues that come with comic book character scaling. I'm not convinced any of the characters you showed have consistent planetary feats/scaling, so Ea's still one-shotting you & all of your clones.

Quick breakdown. Kitty's a normal girl so let's be really, really generous and give her grown man strength and say 180lbs. You acknowledged she gets her stuff through density so...at 70 tons that's..8555 times more dense bruh. That's a multiplier.

So all this is built on a baseless assumption with nothing backing it up? Good to know. Also, that doesn't prove Kitty's powers are a multiplier, that's you explaining it under the assumption that it's a multiplier.

and staggering Ultimate Thing. And Ultimate Thing has taken punches from and matched Hyperion. Who does this. Oh, and it gives some durability (guy breaks his hand on her).

Again, consistency for the first & quantification for the second scan.

To be real, your feats don't even suggest that. Just somewhere past sound, and 'approaching' light could mean anything man. Could mean hypersonic. Could mean massively hypersonic, and at most it means relativistic and that's being generous.

I discussed this in my opener, but it doesn't say approaching, but rather nearing. This kind of phrasing is important since it paints a very clear picture of Saber being hilariously above bullet speed, which in-turn paints a very clear intention for this quote to indicate that she is moving in the higher ends of the relativistic spectrum. Saying she's only going at MHS or whatever would be greatly dismissing the main intention & ideas portrayed within this quote.

And thank you for your calculations, because as you remember, I get 11x Speed's speed so even with your lowest calc, that's around... Mach 88,000. Casually. Uh oh. You see it now? And with ya other calc I'm at what? 286,000? That's an easy speed advantage to me.

So not even half of light speed? I don't see this speed advantage. And again, the speed feats you showed where purely travel speed, which is separated from combat speed by quite a large margin.

Add in the chi which lets peak humans catch bullets from behind? To outpace bullets arguably? And x11? Well it's not that much, but it helps.

Not with that lackluster combat/reaction speed.

Magic Scaling

Again, not going to cover everything as that'd take too long, but this doesn't prove that Enchantress fighting someone on Hela's tier is impressive, rather all it does is make your job harder to prove it's consistent.

And Dr. Strange himself tried to use it to find someone, implying that it's used for exactly that, and is beyond his normal powers.

Again with the unquantification.

Amora hid Thor from that from the cosmos themselves and made them think he was dead. Don't see your precog or senses helping against that.

Not only does this link back to the consistency issue I had earlier, but Gil's precog covers all of the nasuverse, as said, and given just how many multiverses there are in fate/ (and there are a lot) it's clear to me that Gil's precog covers just as much distance as this, and this is an amped Gil.

Though not that it matters in the grand scheme of things, either way, precog or no it doesn't change that Ea's AoE will tear every clone you have to smithereens.

Also thought I'd throw in a bonus of Odin, using his omniscience. The same Odin she tricked.

Couldn't get any more vague & unquantifiable if you tried. Not to mention this reeks of hyperbole to me.

BOOM. KO'd Vision and it would've killed Thor, a god.

No Caption Provided

Vision outright states in that scan that the spell is an anti-god attack, so using it to scale off of Thor is basically impossible.

Vision has survived blasts from the Phoenix Force, and made Hyperion (matched a planet buster in Gladiator) bounce off of him.

Same problem I have with Hulk. Jumping from a planetary Hyperion to the universal Pheonix Force is way too big of a gap to give a concrete, consistent level Vision operates at.

Her summon army can restrain Thor, if for only a second. All we need to gank you at super speed my guy. Constructs match Hercules (again for only a moment, and again all we need to slice and dice).

Not when planet level characters are absolute fodder to Gil, which no amount of amps can fix. Especially when said planet level threat breaks out of them in 2 seconds & only achieves those heights with shared feats others & not on his own raw strength.

Another showing of armies she can summon. Yes ethereal beings as well, and able to restrain Ghost Rider (again, for a moment).

Again, no reason to be impressed by Ghost Rider and Gil has the pretty weapon to take out ethereal being assuming they can take Ea (which you haven't shown they can).

Long story short, fam? You getting taken out by her magic.

I have mind & soul immunity, so all of these are irrelevant.

It still cuts everything. Like Olympian weaponry (gods). And spells. And planet level spells that bind even the Hulk. And transmutation. And transmutation again. And forcefields. And Titans (Zeus level), and Terminus (planet level and beyond), and...a sword made by the literal Beyonder. A multiversal reality warper. And a weaker/false version cut through dimensional walls. Yep. It's the ultimate cutting tool.

I like how you went from showing consistently planet level potency only to randomly throw in a multiversal feat & act like it's consistent.

Big boy stuff. 'Specially seeing as how Zeus' lightning be hurting Galactus and ish.

Consistently?

Not to mention...you can't kill me without the right blade, because of it.

Smells like one heck of an NLF to me.

And just try to take it and use it against me. mmmnope. Doesn't work.

Never planned on it.

Oh and since I mentioned it before...we can heal with the chi fam. But like...x11 of course. And with a senzu bean which can heal a hole in the body. Energy (from crawling). Teeth (and other non-serious injuries). Supposedly an arm? A broken neck, too. So basically each clone got 5 lives, on top of all the other ish.

Not gonna matter when you get one-shot, unable to eat or use chi after getting ripped apart by a time/space cutting behemoth.

Oh and we got pre-cog too. Minor, but spidey sense does help with a lot. Especially dodging.

A spider-sense can only go so far, as shown with how many times Peter has been tagged before, not to mention it's never seen threw Illusions that can mess with inherent senses & magic resistance the way Merlin has.

And of course, we got Hawkeye's trick arrows. Note the Chaos Magic. And also the Hellfire-infused. And Hellfire weakens magic enchantments and seems to hit spirits just fine (obviously given Ghost Rider's opponents).

Are any of these part of his standard gear? Somehow I doubt it.

Nah fam that sounds like a super reach. Like a monumental reach. Your own scan says the weapon only belongs to Lancer. Get that all the way the hell out of here.

The quote your referring is merely Shirou's (the main protag) reaction & disbelief of seeing Gae Bolg, and Gil's even explicitly stated to own the original models of all Noble Phantasms, so he most certainly has it.

That's a strong behind claim with nothing backing it up. It's actually the opposite. YOU need feats of hitting intangible/phased people.

Reversing cause & effect is more than enough to justify hitting an intangible being, something like that would simply ignore the phasing and go straight for the heart. Something like that being stopped by phasing doesn't make much sense.

And for the record, Kitty has phased through Galactus' technology, which is pretty much on that level. If not above it, considering Galactus eats planets and the entire purpose of the tech was to absorb the Ultimate Universe. And the plan by the super geniuses by the way, was to have Kitty phase through it and disrupt it. So...nah. Nice try though.

Nice of you to back up these claims which actual scans of showing how Galactus' tech ignore cause & affect. You've shown nothing, and thus can prove nothing.

Enchantress has magic. And we got the the Ebony Blade. And remember, they're fused.

Those change nothing, Enchantress' magic is far too different to Nasuverse magic & you didn't prove Ebony Blade could cut intangible beings, merely strong beings. Not the same thing.

It's actually very relevant bruh. We too are stronger than Black Knight and have luck on our side so...yeah it applies.

Neither your strength or luck is relevant to Gilgamesh, the former due to lack of impressive/consistent showings, the latter will be explored later.

Irrelevant unless you can prove the difference fam.

I did tho... I explicitly explained why servant intangibility is different from Vision, and how even the most basic level of Nasuverse magic is vastly different from 616 magic to the point where they can't be compared solely on the front of them having the same name.

Not to mention cutting through a pure magic wall beyond comprehension and Time itself. Time. Itself. That's far above what you've shown bruh. Admit it.

Good look quantifying that.

Gil's distracted, throws the weapon wrong.

Why would that happen? By your account, everything you do will be invisible, so there's not to distract Gil.

The weapon ricochets and comes back to stab Gil.

Gil manually controls the projectiles, so that's impossible.

The magic spells/amps fail and/or blow up, or backfire.

They have never shown the ability to do so nor do they have proof of achieving that.

The weapons simply blow up or turn to dust before they hit me, as shown before

And, how & why? Adamantium versions of famous weaponry throughout history don't just turn to dust. With luck, there's always a line of logic between how it can affect something, but instead your producing head-canon with no proof it can actually happen.

I trip every time and dodge the weapon, luckily for me.

Ea's AoE hard counters this. No matter how your trip, you're getting tagged.

Luck always plays a part. Ya not going to downplay it here fam.

said part also needs to actually exist and have a probability of happening. It can turn a 0.1% chance into 100%, but not a flat 0.

And for you and the audience's benefit, here's Luck/probability manipulation/hexes affecting magic (even Enchantresses) in the Marvel Universe.

Once again, magic in Fate/ is so radically different it's ridiculous to assume your luck could manipulate it based on an entirely different system with entirely different mechanics.

and stopping momentum of a projectile.

Didn't even show the scan to prove this.

And just for some flavor, luck can even...cause random agonizing pain. There's no escape, only acceptance bruh. Admit it.

Does it work on magic ether ghosts which can only be hurt by either spiritual beings or other servants?

They got any feats?

They should at least be comparable to Gil's regular weaponry (wouldn't make sense if they didn't), so adamantium boosted mountain+ sounds right.

Somehow I doubt it. And you can't prep for what you don't know...so nah.

Thanks, precog.

Bruh, if this ain't a reach and a half. Nowhere does it say it rips opponents on the atomic level. It says that all of the opponent is affected. That's every attack. Even real life fire changes atoms forever. This ish ain't impressive? What is you on fam?

The quote literally says every single atom is devoured with Caster's giant beast. Their's changing atoms, and outright annihilating them alongside a giant tentacle demon, the latter of which is what Saber did.

Dang bruh, reach of the century? You're magical energy in the form of a construct. Stop pretending you're special.

Magical energy made of an entirely different substance, following entirely different rules & used in entirely separate ways. Nasuverse is in fact rather special compared to 616's magecraft.

But I got this x11.

You can do these kinds of speed only through teleportation, which doesn't translate to any kind of combat speed. Meanwhile, Gil is able to use his vehicle mid-combat, reacting to attacks from Berserker & controlling the ship accordingly, which would translate to what he can perceive mid-fight. Pretty obvious difference.

On the other side? Vague. Maybe mountain, maybe planet. Strength on my side? Mid tier/She-Hulk level x11, plus a 8000x density amp, and an 11x chi manipulation amp. Advantage: Me.

I have clear cut feats & statements backing up my planetary level Ea, all you have is wacky scaling which contradicts loads of feast that your characters have done. And even if I do buy into your scaling, you're claiming that 1 pointers are capable star level & higher characters are even higher heights, which ain't exactly gonna fly in a tourney who's highest pointers cap at planet level.

Really, if we're really real, everything's pretty shaky on the other side due to the weird combination of feats (I know fam, pot and kettle). But we got at least Hela level magic survival feats x11. And we got phasing (through super tech and whatnot)...x11. Advantage: Me.

On top of Servant intangibility you failed to counter, Gil's inherent durability would scale to his striking strength thanks to being able to withstand Ea, so I have much more clear cut planet level stuff than your dodgy scaling.

I mean this is cheating since I'm the only one with it. x11, and the other side got bad luck x11 so...I'm washing it up here. I got control ALL the probabilities and possibilities here my dude. Advantage: Me by a million. Funny because...

Said possibilities have to exist first.

Other side has ten decent clones, made by a weak dude who gets taken out immediately, No real proof it helps with the summoning of weapons... verdict is shaky. My side, a million clones, durability to take hits from Thing and blasts from Cyclops. Each hit makes more of me. Inherent to my ONE Fused character. Advantage: Me by a million again.

Already discussed, Twice's clones are fine especially when amped by Merlin & Medea, and your scaling id nothing sort of fallacious

I got senzus and chi healingx11, so again... A wash. But my numbers nullify any advantage they could have.

Irrelevant since you'll be getting one-shot.

Could go either way really, depending on his feats. Then again, Amora's fooled the literal universe/cosmos, as well as Heimdall and Odin, and I got her powers tenfold so...betting on me.

This right here shows your ignorance of consistency. Unless you're saying Heimdall & Odin are universal (something you never backed up) their's no way Amora's magic is consistently at the level you portray it at.

Another side's got good weapons and some decent other magic, though the points have been conceded for the most part. I got transmutation, paralysis, pure power, ethereal magic, etc. And all tenfold. Advantage: Me by a million due to hurting the likes of Hela and Thor. And multiplying that by tenfold.

Only unless you ignore all of the points I've made to counteract it.

Not gonna lie, this is pretty good. Other side got adamantium and magic weaponry (some, not every single weapon in the verse like is claimed), and I got forcefields, vibranium suits, and the Ebony Blade. Difference is my weapon gives me immortality and slices everything so... Advantage: Me.

Already discussed.

Super Adaptoid also copies everything the other side has. So it's not only a million copies of what I've shown, but a million copies of themselves. Light bars.

He's not copying something radically different from anything in his universe.

No point responding to the rest as I'd just be repeating things ad nauseam.

Conclusion:

Yeah, honestly I still see myself as the winner. My opponent's entire argument depends on some pretty obnoxious scaling chains which do nothing but expose all of the issues many outsiders have with comic books. And as for the actual fight, my opponent failed to prove how he could survive 10 super amped planetary level attacks that rip apart time & space all at once, given he doesn't have the durability nor intangibility feats to bypass it. The rest if pretty simple stuff, his attempts at counters were pretty weak sauce, couldn't provide counters at all for certain factors, and overall my gameplan hasn't changed a day.

The 10 Gilgamesh's will all launch their super amped Ea's around the area, it's large AoE & DPS means that even 1 swing will wipe out you & every single clone you produce without a single hassle, ending the fight in a quick & efficient manner.

  1. My opponent has shown nothing to survive Ea or Gae Bolg
  2. My opponent hasn't shown anything to bypass servant intangibility
  3. He was unable to counter anything I presented properly
  4. Has no outs to Merlin's Illusions beyond inconsistent scaling
  5. Gil's precog range covers just as wide an area as what you're trying to scale too, and even then it isn't needed
  6. tbh all of the arguments against me dealt with obtuse comic book scaling.
  7. All of what I said in my opener still stands, my opponent gets one-shot by Ea with nothing to defend himself with
No Caption Provided

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GilgameshThePimpToEndAllPimps

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#26  Edited By WordmanJones
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Yeah I'm voting for @gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps here. Woodmancajones' arguments relied entirely on the most wacky scaling I've even seen in my entire life as well as arguing almost all of his characters (the highest point one being 8 points) at the level of 15 pointers and every now and then far beyond that. His team and overall strategy was fine, but even with things like luck manipulation, he failed to convince me that Gilgamesh wouldn't just immediately nuke and kill his entire team as soon as the fight began.

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WordmanJones

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@maestromage: Ay fam, good looks on being the first vote but I just thought I'd peep game, let you know that...I don't actually got a team, nah mean? My dude is my team fused, all multiplied by 11 as I specified in my posts. So all the phasing, magic, physical feats, luck, speed, etc. is just one person.

I do got an army of a million clones though, that replicates upon being hit so...,maybe you meant that? I'on know fam. Just didn't want to have you out here looking all crazy and confused and ish.

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Arf

Well first off, my hat goes off to the comic dude for using that many characters and having to rep all of them accurately, that's a hard start to go off with and maestro in comparison had a lot less work cut out for him.

However, his arguments for said characters were very poor. For one, Maddox's clones each have individual personalities and traits, but he treated them as a single army with a single hive mind when they aren't. Some clones here could have been pacifist, non violent, or willing to attack their own team, all of which has happened with him in the past.

Arguing Panther at Hell Lord level.....very funny joke. Not a legit argument through.

Blastaar used a device to bust a planet. Even then, that's massively above limits here.

He showcased the Iron Fist hurting Hulk, even through the scan itself showed no such thing as Danny was trying to break a device that was controlling him. Hulk even got up panels later and smiled like nothing had happened. This is supposed to be impressive?

Also doesn't go into the fact that not only was Hercules drunk, but he was depowered at the time: depowered Hercules struggles with street tiers.

The scaling is very wacky here through. Scaling Amora to individuals who are frankly far, far above the limits of the tourney (Hela, Blackheart, Doctor Strange etc) as well as Domino's relatively tame luck manipulation being scaled to silly levels, using scans from AvX (which isn't a canon run at all) and stating that making a lightning strike happen means it can make the entire opposite team fail completely. Ok.

The scaling isn't consistently on a single power level. It's all over the place and Gilgamesh rightfully called it out and used it as his main point against Wordman, addressing his all over the place scaling and debunking some of the more quantifiable arguments (like Quicksilver being faster than Gilgamesh, etc)

Also had a problem with the way that he showed his feats: he'd show something that IS impressive to my knowledgeable eye, but to a person who doesn't know anything about Odin or whatnot, it's basically worthless. He'd show the feat and say it's impressive, but not WHY it is impressive. That's a pressing issue throughout the debate as he doesn't explain who the character is or why someone should be fearful because they beat up this dude or whatnot. It makes the argument look not only simplistic, but in a sense, vague and confusing.

Wordman seemed to be basically using RT feats but picking out high ends to use rather than conistent stuff, which is a shame considering his team is actually a pretty impressive assortment of characters (outside of the useless street tiers) and I'd consider them a challenge with a different matchup and argumentation.

It felt like Wordman kinda shot himself in the foot here due to arguing a lot over limits, as that both made his team look worse and also placed him in a position where he could have easily been DQ'd for his scaling.

Gilgameshthepimp did a great job both countering the massive amount of scans here, but also showcasing why his team would be able to win with clear and concise arguments, showing what his team could do, how they did it, and how impressive they are against other foes.

There's a good word to describe both what his posts had and what Wordman's didn't: CONTEXT.

Voting for @gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps here.

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ProfessorRespect

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@darkdementor101: You can't vote for a guy just because of bad formatting tho, that ain't a valid critique of their overall performance

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Arf

Well first off, my hat goes off to the comic dude for using that many characters and having to rep all of them accurately, that's a hard start to go off with and maestro in comparison had a lot less work cut out for him.

However, his arguments for said characters were very poor. For one, Maddox's clones each have individual personalities and traits, but he treated them as a single army with a single hive mind when they aren't. Some clones here could have been pacifist, non violent, or willing to attack their own team, all of which has happened with him in the past.

Arguing Panther at Hell Lord level.....very funny joke. Not a legit argument through.

Blastaar used a device to bust a planet. Even then, that's massively above limits here.

He showcased the Iron Fist hurting Hulk, even through the scan itself showed no such thing as Danny was trying to break a device that was controlling him. Hulk even got up panels later and smiled like nothing had happened. This is supposed to be impressive?

Also doesn't go into the fact that not only was Hercules drunk, but he was depowered at the time: depowered Hercules struggles with street tiers.

The scaling is very wacky here through. Scaling Amora to individuals who are frankly far, far above the limits of the tourney (Hela, Blackheart, Doctor Strange etc) as well as Domino's relatively tame luck manipulation being scaled to silly levels, using scans from AvX (which isn't a canon run at all) and stating that making a lightning strike happen means it can make the entire opposite team fail completely. Ok.

The scaling isn't consistently on a single power level. It's all over the place and Gilgamesh rightfully called it out and used it as his main point against Wordman, addressing his all over the place scaling and debunking some of the more quantifiable arguments (like Quicksilver being faster than Gilgamesh, etc)

Also had a problem with the way that he showed his feats: he'd show something that IS impressive to my knowledgeable eye, but to a person who doesn't know anything about Odin or whatnot, it's basically worthless. He'd show the feat and say it's impressive, but not WHY it is impressive. That's a pressing issue throughout the debate as he doesn't explain who the character is or why someone should be fearful because they beat up this dude or whatnot. It makes the argument look not only simplistic, but in a sense, vague and confusing.

Wordman seemed to be basically using RT feats but picking out high ends to use rather than conistent stuff, which is a shame considering his team is actually a pretty impressive assortment of characters (outside of the useless street tiers) and I'd consider them a challenge with a different matchup and argumentation.

It felt like Wordman kinda shot himself in the foot here due to arguing a lot over limits, as that both made his team look worse and also placed him in a position where he could have easily been DQ'd for his scaling.

Gilgameshthepimp did a great job both countering the massive amount of scans here, but also showcasing why his team would be able to win with clear and concise arguments, showing what his team could do, how they did it, and how impressive they are against other foes.

There's a good word to describe both what his posts had and what Wordman's didn't: CONTEXT.

Voting for @gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps here.

I agree with this, Wordman’s posts were far from stellar and were filled with out of context/inconsistent showings for his characters. I’m voting for gil

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LMAO this is pretty funny.

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@wordmanjones: I don't think I'm allowed to vote, I'm in this tournament lol

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#38 Whathappened  Online
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@whathappened: Aren't you a alt of a user that was banned through

don't think that would be legal

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