• 58 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for emperorthanos-
#1 Edited by emperorthanos- (16577 posts) - - Show Bio

Time for round 1

@sazzmi

Characters

  • John Stewart (4)
  • Ultraman Zero (6)
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Perks

  • Morals Off (8)
  • Basic Knowledge (5)
  • Mind Link (2)
No Caption Provided

@unlimited1

Team

  • Ichibei 2
  • Ywach 3
  • Alita 6
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

I won't use that last point.

Perks

  • 2 extra character points 5
  • Mind/Soul Immunity 7
  • Adamantium weapons (Alita) 2
  • Flight (Alita) 1

Rules

  1. Win by Death, Incap or KO.
  2. Standard Gear.
  3. Time Jumping, remnants, speeding up ones own time is allowed. Other forms of time manip is banned.
  4. No speed steal
  5. No BFR.
  6. No reality warping
  7. No Power Copying/stealing.
  8. No Summons, constructs or any other fodder stronger than 616 Bleeding Edge Iron Man.
  9. Summons are limited to 200
  10. Cloning is limited to 10

Voting Rules:

  1. Vote for the better debater
  2. Do not vote on which character you think you will win
  3. Give reasoning to your vote.
  4. I will count the total votes
  5. If I feel a vote is unjustified or biased I will not count it.

Battle ground

Indestructible planet inside a Solar System like others, with no other people on it except for the fighters.

No Caption Provided

Moderator
Avatar image for faradaysloth
#2 Posted by FaradaySloth (10089 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V & TAEP

Avatar image for geekryan
#3 Posted by geekryan (4789 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

Avatar image for sazzmi
#4 Posted by Sazzmi (696 posts) - - Show Bio

Wednesday

Avatar image for emperorthanos-
#5 Posted by emperorthanos- (16577 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
Avatar image for unlimited1
#6 Posted by Unlimited1 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

Undying Hax Squad

Ichibe Hyosube

No Caption Provided

Speed

Ichibe is surprisingly fast, being able to traverse massive distances near instantly and keep up with the top fighters of the bleach verse. Despite the relatively low amount of chapters he appears in, we have a few very impressive speed feats to go on, the most important one is found in his battle against Yhwach, where he sends him flying thousands of kilometers away, and immediately catches up to him. Ichibe's ability to keep up with an object flying in massively hyper sonic speeds while having a conversation, never losing track of his target implies he can keep up with almost anyone.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Ri (also known as the Japanese Mile) is a unit of length. 1 Ri = 3.927 km. 1,000 Ri = 3927 km. The time frame of the feat is hard to determine, but based on the amount of actions Yhwach preformed, it is safe to assume it is a few fractions of a second at most, which would place this feat at about mach 4000. The time frame can also be calculated using gravitational acceleration, which I will bring up if this feat is called into question.

But if that's not enough for you, Ichibe was able to casually block to one of Yhwach's fastest attacks. If he can block an holy arrow that easily, when even the holy arrow of the weakest named members in his army are lightning speed, he can react to most projectiles.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Here it is shown that the holy arrows of the female Sternritters are lightning speed. Where is the lightning? you might be asking, well the lightning shaped arrow on the left is actually real lightning! However, we all know not every lightning shaped projectile in fiction is real lightning so some kind of proof must be found if we are to consider it so. In the following scan it is stated that the bolts contain 5 Gigajouls of energy which is the approximate amount of energy true lightning contains, this makes it very clear that the author meant for it to be real lightning.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Hax

Base

In its base form, Ichibe's weapon Ichimonji doesn't cut flesh, it cuts names. for example, if Ichibe lands a blow on his opponent's arm, he can reduce the capabilities of that arm by half if he cuts its name in half to Ar and if he cuts his opponents entire body, their power will be reduced by half.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Shikai

In its Shikai, Ichimonji releases ink and anything that touches the ink loses its name and thus, its power. This is not the only ability his Shikai has, the second ability grants him control of all the "black" in the world, this black becomes his ink, making taking peoples name with his Shikai extremely easy.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Evolved Shikai (Bankai)

Ichibe can give and change the name of targets who have been struck by the ink of Ichimonji by writing kanji on their body; doing so gives his target the properties and powers of the name granted. For example, by changing their name to "Black Ant" (Kuroari), his opponent would be as weak and powerless as an ant.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Ultimate move- Futen Taisatsuryō (Slaughterous Mausoleum of Halted Reincarnation)

After a short incantation, Ichibe uses the black in his opponents body to erase his opponents from existence. He wont even reincarnate.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Immortality

Another very powerful ability Ichibe has is his self resurrection, he can completely reconstruct his body after being killed. Their is only one condition: Someone must say his name out loud, giving him some of their energy. Luckily, Yhwach knows Ichibe's name and can resurrect him if need be.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Yhwach

No Caption Provided

Speed

Yhwach is one of the fastest characters in bleach and was capable of keeping up with Ichibe before receiving several major power boosts, which will be discussed later. Based on that alone, he shouldn't have much trouble keeping up with the opposing team even without his precognition.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Power

Yhwach may not be as powerful as many DC powerhouses, but his raw power should not be underestimated. In his base form he was able to one shot captain Yamamoto and steal his Bankai which can destroy the entire souls society with its passive heat.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Soul society is comprised of 360 districts plus the Seireitei which serves as the capitol. Districts are no longer used in the Japanese administrative system, but they are roughly equal to the districts of the house of representatives, of which there are 306. Based on this information and the way soul society is portrayed throughout the series, it is safe to assume the size of soul society is roughly equal to the size of Japan (364,485 square kilometers of land). This implies that Yamamoto is comfortably country level. Note that the purpose of Yamamoto's Bankai is to condense the heat, not to expand it and that the possible destruction is only a side effect of the dangerous release, this means Yamamoto might be even more powerful.

After proving he is comparable to Yamamoto, Yhwach continues his murder spree and one shots Ichibe, the leader of squad zero. Squad Zero contains five members who are all former captains and are tasked with protecting and serving the soul king. The combined power of squad zero is stated to be far grater than the power of the 13 court guards squads (all captains in soul society and their subordinates), as the captain of squad zero and the strongest member by a very large margin, Ichibe should be superior to the former captain of the 13 court guards, Yamamoto. This is further supported by how easily Shikai Ichibe rag-dolls Yhwach before Yhwach unleashes "The Almighty" (his broken hax ability)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

So Yhwach is a bit above country level at base, but is that the full extent of his power? Absolutely not, as after preforming these feats he absorbs the power of five of the most powerful characters in the verse:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

These Characters are:

  1. True Shikai Ichigo (only his quincy powers)
  2. Gerard Valkyrie
  3. Mimihagi
  4. The soul king
  5. Jugram Haschwalth

Gerard Valkyrie is one of the strongest Sternritter capable of matching Shikai Kenpachi Zaraki in his base form. Kenpachi in his (Eos) base form was able to destroy a huge meteor and reduce it to rubble.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

This is a country level feat. But to prove that I will have to use a calculation, I am aware of the general dislike of calculations in comic vine, but this one is simple and straightforward so I hope you will be willing to at least consider it. This calculation was originally preformed by Vs Battle Wiki user Piercer of Heaven and all credit goes to him.

Seireitei Scaling

Ichigo=2 Pixels=1.74 m

Stand=116 Pixels=100.92

Sokyoku Hill=969 Pixels=2,963.37818181818 m

Sokyoku Hill Height=45 Pixels=2,963.37818181818 m

Seireitei Diameter=1461 Pixels=96,211.0116363636 m

Seireitei Diameter=1660 Pixels=96,211.0116363636

Seireitei Height=815 Pixels=47,236.1292070098

Meteor

Seireitei Height=475 Pixels=47,236.1292070098 m

Meteor Diameter=457 Pixels=45,446.1285212705 m

Meteor Radius=22,723.0642606352 m

It's a sphere so:

Volume=49,146,127,100,000 m^3=49,146,127,100,000,000,000 cm^3

Violent fragmentation 69 joules/cm^3

E=3,391,082,769,900,000,000,000

This is borderline small country level already. Considering it was done casually and while Kenpachi was wearing his eye-patch (a device that consumes his spiritual energy), it stands to reason Kenpachi is country level in Shikai.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Gerard was able to fight with Shikai Kenpachi on equal ground, matching his monstrous power.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Later, Gerard attained two more powerful forms, his original form not even holding a candle to the last one. Only then Yhwach absorbed his power.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

But Gerard's power pale in comparison to the power of the soul king, who posses such immense spiritual energy that after absorbing him Yhwach said he feels like he has an absolute excess of power. If Yhwach believes the soul king power is limitless compared to the power he used to defeat Yamamoto and Ichibe, it must be truly great.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

In addition to all of that he also absorbed the right hand of the soul king Mimihagi and his most trusted servant Jugram Haschwalth, both very powerful high tiers in the verse. He later absorbed Ichigo's Quincy powers as well gaining an unknown amount of power. All of this should place him at multi continent to moon level, impressive for a character known mainly for his Hax.

Hax and immortality

Yhwach has one of the most broken ability in Manga, The Almighty. Using it he can see the entire future, change the future and gain immunity to abilities that he "sees". He can even rewrite futures in which he had died to resurrect himself.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Alita

No Caption Provided

Speed

Alita is extremely fast, possessing combat speed feats that very few high tiers can match. Her best speed feat is nullifying tens of thousands of solitary waves moving in her friends skull, each one moving at speeds of over mach 5, with the help of Arthur, a computer program that regular assists her. Later, she receives an upgrade which increases her power by an order of magnitude.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5
No Caption Provided

The Power of Adamantium

With adamantium, Alita can cut almost anyone in this tournament, considering it was capable of cutting war world Hulk, Thor and even Thanos.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Alita fight's with two blades that are attached to her arms. She can manifest them at will.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Immortality

Alita can regenerate from nothing with the help of two supercomputers, Melchizedek and Zeus. Alita works for these supercomputers, so this regeneration wasn't a one time thing.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Avatar image for unlimited1
#7 Edited by Unlimited1 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

@sazzmi: My opener is up. I may edit and revise some stuff, but it shouldn't effect your opener.

Avatar image for unlimited1
#8 Posted by Unlimited1 (989 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for sazzmi
#9 Edited by Sazzmi (696 posts) - - Show Bio

So I just realized my post didn't go through yesterday. I'll copy paste my opener with some small counters tacked onto the end.

Hello readers, voters, and trolls. Today you will be reading or at least looking at my post for a fictional battle debating tournament. Now before I begin I would like to acknowledge a couple things. First, I know this post is very late and I apologize, a lot of random stuff came up and ate away at my free time. Second, this post will be a tad bit unorthodox in structure but it's that way for a reason. Third, I did some research on my opponent's team prior to typing this up. However, the research wasn't comprehensive by any means and thus my presentation of his team may have some inaccuracies which I hope my opponent will address. And Finally, I've been feeling pretty hecking lazy as of late and so this particular post might be lacking in quality, quantity, or both. Now with the introduction complete, it's time to present my argument. Starting with my analysis of the current opposition.

Team Weeb Trash

First and foremost, I will address the characters from the manga known as Bleach. And the very first thing to note is that the characters in Bleach have their own anime form of The Force, known as Reishi and the applied use of Reishi is known as Reiatsu. Now strange foreign terms aside, this is nothing more than "spiritual energy" and random soul based shenanigans. Under most circumstances, stuff like this wouldn't be anything notable, however, in Bleach characters with more "Reiatsu" can literally crush lesser opponents with their mere presence. Surely in a battle like this, that would grant them an instant win, no? Wrong. While most characters don't have "Reiatsu" many characters, including my own, have powerful mental/spiritual energies/defenses of their own. But the "Reiatsu" argument goes further. Even if they can withstand the soul crush, persons without Reiatsu can't harm beings with/made up of Reiatsu. Which is again, false. While beings made up of Reiatsu are usually invisible to the normal human eye, they can still be harmed by physical objects and beings without Reiatsu. So no, not in any way is Reiatsu an instant win.

The second thing we have to address concerning Bleach characters are their physicals. In terms of speed, the top tier feats are Mach 500/1000, being lightning speed, or uh 1000 Ri thing ("Ri" is a unit of measurement but the distance is debatable) with some highly debatable barely FTL feats. So generally these characters are around the high hypersonic to low FTL ranges aka the "blitz me" levels of speed. But their DC is really good right? Not really. The best we got there is a couple country busting feats here and there with one or two high context planetary feat. So they're fodder for most high tiers in all honesty.

Lastly, we have their hax. To keep this section short, I'll only talk about the characters my opponent has since those are the only characters I looked up. Ywach has this thing called "The Almighty" which is unusable because the rules restrict reality warping and time manipulation. And Ichibe's hax is ok but he's far to slow to do anything with it.

Next character my opponent has is Alita who's mostly a physical fighter with nothing too interesting going on so this section will be shorter than the Bleach section. The first thing to discuss when dealing with this is her speed which like the Bleach characters is not extremely notable. Generally speaking, around the normal hypersonic ranges and with scaling is around the MHS ranges. In short, terrible. Her DC isn't that impressive either. The best I could find is around city level. Now she did create a black hole, which would theoretically be worthy of 6 pointer status but this was with the help of another character and because of the fact that she has an inexhaustible supply of power with her wormhole reactor. She does not operate on black hole levels.

tl;dr

  • Your team is fodder in terms of physical abilities
  • Any metaphysical abilities are either too weak, too slow or banned

The better team

Given the fact that this is my opening post, I will keep this section to the barest of minimums. I will present more feats and whatnot if the situation calls for it. So first off, both of my team members are easily FTL-MFTL+ in speed and both of my team members are easily planetary and beyond. Their morals are off, so they will use their most powerful attacks from the start. After this initial attack, the enemy team will be no more.

Feats to support my claims

Starting off with John Stewart

Random Green Lanterns have nanosecond level reaction times.

Green Lantern Corps #14
Green Lantern Corps #14

John Stewart is an elite Lantern and can take on an entire team of Green Lanterns. Sure, he ends up losing but he put up a fight despite being outnumbered, ambushed, and was also going up against Kilowog another elite Lantern.

Justice League #15
Justice League #15

John can also battle against the League (a little more consistent that you may think)

Green Lantern Rebirth #2
Green Lantern Rebirth #2

Next, we have Zero

Very early on in his career, he battles Darklops Zero. During this battle, they displayed planetary and near FTL feats.

No Caption Provided

Darklops was suppressed and toying with Zero at this time and still beat Zero. A group of 3 Darklops ravaged an entire city of Ultras and Ultra warriors. Ultra warriors can easily bust extremely dense planets the size of Jupiter with a single blast.

No Caption Provided

So we have established Darklops as a high/low herald tier. Current unweakened Zero can casually one-shot an entire army of Darklops in his base form.

No Caption Provided

Conclusion

Your team is fodder in comparison to mine.

Conclusion after reviewing your post

My research is mostly accurate. Your team is still fodder. Your entire team gets instantly killed via the collateral damage from Zero's attacks.

Avatar image for sazzmi
#10 Posted by Sazzmi (696 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for unlimited1
#11 Edited by Unlimited1 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters

characters in Bleach have their own anime form of The Force, known as Reishi

Reishi in Bleach means spirit particles, the thing spiritual matter is made of. It has nothing in common with the force. You are probably referring to Reiryoku or spiritual power.

in Bleach characters with more "Reiatsu" can literally crush lesser opponents with their mere presence. Surely in a battle like this, that would grant them an instant win, no? Wrong. While most characters don't have "Reiatsu" many characters, including my own, have powerful mental/spiritual energies/defenses of their own.

I didn't plan to go with the Reaitsu crush argument and I agree that your characters will probably be unaffected by it.

Persons without Reiatsu can't harm beings with/made up of Reiatsu. Which is again, false. While beings made up of Reiatsu are usually invisible to the normal human eye, they can still be harmed by physical objects and beings without Reiatsu. So no, not in any way is Reiatsu an instant win.

Again I agree with you on this, but the problem with your argument is that you didn't provide any evidence implying that your characters can even sense spiritual beings.

Ywach has this thing called "The Almighty" which is unusable because the rules restrict reality warping and time manipulation.

The Almighty isn't time manipulation or reality warping, its precognition and fate manipulation. Yhawch can see the future (precognition), gain immunity to his opponent's abilities (power nullification) and choose between all the futures he sees (fate manipulation). Some may claim that precognition is a type of time manipulation but it isn't true, as it doesn't affect the timeline and Doctor Strange is allowed to use a similar ability in another match. Others might say that fate manipulation is just another name for time manipulation, but it is also false. Time manipulation is the ability to control time itself. Examples include time travel, precognition, slowing down time, speeding up time, stopping time, etc. Fate manipulation, or more specifically casualty manipulation, is the ability to redirect any cause to any effect, undo anything by inverting the relation cause/effect, or even separate them entirely, making a specific effect impossible to be caused or a specific cause not producing any effect. The Almighty is fate manipulation, not time manipulation.

And Ichibe's hax is ok but he's far to slow to do anything with it.

Ichibe is extremely fast but even if your characters could react to him, they can't sense him, making them easy targets for his Hax.

Random Green Lanterns have nanosecond level reaction times.

Jon Stewart doesn't scale to Stel, a 120,000 lbs robot, in any way. The Green Lantern corp is composed of many different species with different physical abilities.

John can also battle against the League (a little more consistent that you may think)

John was clearly shown to be weaker than Superman.

No Caption Provided

Very early on in his career, he battles Darklops Zero. During this battle, they displayed planetary and near FTL feats.

My team can deal with near FTL speeds just fine, so that shouldn't pose a problem.

The Fight

Because the enemy team can only sense Alita, they will attack her and she will be destroyed by Ultraman. She will soon be regenerated by Melchizedek and Zeus (The supercomputers).

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

In the meantime, Yhwach will change the future too break Jhon Stewart's green lantern ring as he did with Ichigo's Bankai. The team is capable of breaking the ring with Alita's Adamantium blades or Ichibe's Hax, so this future is a possibility.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

While Yhwach takes care of Jhon Stewart, Ichibe will use his Shikai to take all of Ultraman's power and give him the powers of an ant or to simply remove him from existence.

"Ichibe can give and change the name of targets who have been struck by the ink of Ichimonji by writing kanji on their body; doing so gives his target the properties and powers of the name granted. For example, by changing their name to "Black Ant" (Kuroari), his opponent would be as weak and powerless as an ant."

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

"After a short incantation, Ichibe uses the black in his opponent's body to erase his opponents from existence. He won't even reincarnate."

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

If Yhwach and Ichibe are somehow caught in a random blast, Yhwach can resurrect himself and Ichibe, leaving the other team with no way to win.

No Caption Provided

"Another very powerful ability Ichibe has is his self-resurrection, he can completely reconstruct his body after being killed. There is only one condition: Someone must say his name out loud, giving him some of their energy. Luckily, Yhwach knows Ichibe's name and can resurrect him if need be."

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Summary

  • The regeneration which the characters in my team posses makes them impossible to kill.
  • Based on the feats presented up to now, my team can easily keep up with the other team.
  • Ultraman and Jhon Stewart have no way to sense spiritual beings.
  • Ichibe's Hax can single handily destroy the opposing team.
  • Ywhach's fate manipulation will ensure the future in which my team will easily win will be realized.

Avatar image for unlimited1
#12 Posted by Unlimited1 (989 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for faradaysloth
#13 Posted by FaradaySloth (10089 posts) - - Show Bio

Great post

Avatar image for ourmanuel
#14 Edited by ourmanuel (11965 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting.

Sazzmi made quite a few errors about in-verse rules for bleach which unlimited pointed out, but otherwise good post from both

Tag from now on.

Online
Avatar image for deactivated-5c531dce659a2
#15 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice post from both sides.

Tag for vote

Avatar image for sazzmi
#16 Posted by Sazzmi (696 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for sazzmi
#17 Edited by Sazzmi (696 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters

Reishi in Bleach means spirit particles, the thing spiritual matter is made of. It has nothing in common with the force. You are probably referring to Reiryoku or spiritual power

It's some sort of magic energy that resides in everybody in the verse. It's basically the force for all I care.

Again I agree with you on this, but the problem with your argument is that you didn't provide any evidence implying that your characters can even sense spiritual beings.

Ugh fine. Zero defeats the soul of Belial (more on him if the time comes), an evil being empowered by an even eviler cosmic god, after getting possessed by him (doubles as a mind/soul resistance feat)

No Caption Provided

And I'm sure John also has some battles with the supernatural but to save my own time I'll bring up the fact that I have Mind Link and thus anything Zero can see John can see too.

The Almighty isn't time manipulation or reality warping,

Really now? What kind of mental gymnastics will we see today?

its precognition and fate manipulation. Yhawch can see the future (precognition), gain immunity to his opponent's abilities (power nullification) and choose between all the futures he sees (fate manipulation).

Stop right there, friend. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding but what you're saying is being able to pick and choose whatever possible future you want isn't time manipulation? And your argument as to why it isn't time manipulation is because it's "fate manipulation?" Well, friend, I'll just say that's not a good argument. It's tantamount to a lawyer/attorney saying "Oh my client didn't commit grand theft auto, they only stole some random bloke's car." Let me explain it slowly, so Yhawch can literally change the future, therefore, he has "future manipulation." The future is a part of time so "future manipulation" is a part of "time manipulation."

Oh but Sazzmi, I said it's fate manipulation

That's an even worse argument. "Fate" in practice is simply one story's reality. Being able to manipulate this concept would be reality warping.

Some may claim that precognition is a type of time manipulation but it isn't true, as it doesn't affect the timeline and Doctor Strange is allowed to use a similar ability in another match.

So? That ability would be banned as well and if his opponent even looks at the rule he should straight up say "Nah, that's banned." Going back to my attorney analogy, it would be like saying "Mr.Judge, many people have gotten away with murder, look at OJ Simpson. Because of this, I believe my client should also be allowed to get a pass."

Others might say that fate manipulation is just another name for time manipulation, but it is also false. Time manipulation is the ability to control time itself. Examples include time travel, precognition, slowing down time, speeding up time, stopping time, etc. Fate manipulation, or more specifically casualty manipulation, is the ability to redirect any cause to any effect, undo anything by inverting the relation cause/effect, or even separate them entirely, making a specific effect impossible to be caused or a specific cause not producing any effect. The Almighty is fate manipulation, not time manipulation.

Every single word you're saying right now isn't helping your case. You're honestly giving more reasons why your ability is banned without directly admitting it. Now you're saying it's causality manipulation. The ability to manipulate cause and effect. One of the fundamental principles of reality. If that's not solid proof that The Almighty is time/reality manipulation I don't know what is.

Ichibe is extremely fast but even if your characters could react to him, they can't sense him, making them easy targets for his Hax

No, he's not. You think scaling above lightning speed characters is impressive. My characters look at the speed of light the same way we look at the speed of a sloth.

Jon Stewart doesn't scale to Stel, a 120,000 lbs robot, in any way.

Why does he not? He outranks him and has shown several FTL-MFTL feats of his own. Just because they're different species doesn't mean they can't scale to one another.

The Green Lantern corp is composed of many different species with different physical abilities

Are you trying to say that we Martian Manhunter can't scale to Superman because they have different physical traits? We absolutely can. In this instance, scaling John to Stel is even more concrete since we know they both share the exact same powers and John is more proficient with his.

John was clearly shown to be weaker than Superman.

I mean, yes. But that doesn't take away from the fact that John has shown to be able to wipe the League. Also, what are you trying to say with this scan? Superman would also solo your team with neg difficulty. The fact that it took Superman "everything he had" to break his construct and that John was shown to be faster than Supes is more of a feat than an anti feat.

My team can deal with near FTL speeds just fine, so that shouldn't pose a problem

How? The best speed feat you presented is scaling above lightning timers that's nowhere near FTL. Characters fodder to my team have FTL feats.

Also, I can not stress enough that this was Zero when he was at his weakest. Fighting Darklops that was toying around and had Techtor Gear which is like Dragon Ball's weighted clothes if those clothes not only weighed you down but actively suppressed your power. And current Zero toys with entire armies of unsuppressed Darklops Zeros in his base form mind you. For reference, here's a Zero that was still training fighting multiple FTL+ robots inside a black hole easily an MFTL+ feat that your team can not compete with once again, only in base form.

No Caption Provided

Because the enemy team can only sense Alita, they will attack her and she will be destroyed by Ultraman. She will soon be regenerated by Melchizedek and Zeus (The supercomputers)

You know, it's kinda funny how you mention these supercomputers but they're also not a part of your team and thus not a part of this battle. Which begs the question, how will she regenerate without them?

In the meantime, Yhwach will change the future too break Jhon Stewart's green lantern ring as he did with Ichigo's Bankai. The team is capable of breaking the ring with Alita's Adamantium blades or Ichibe's Hax, so this future is a possibility.

That could happen... If that power wasn't banned.

While Yhwach takes care of Jhon Stewart, Ichibe will use his Shikai to take all of Ultraman's power and give him the powers of an ant or to simply remove him from existence

Scroll up to the rules one last time (specifically number 7) and come back down once you've finished reading them.

If Yhwach and Ichibe are somehow caught in a random blast, Yhwach can resurrect himself and Ichibe, leaving the other team with no way to win.

So ignoring the fact that he can't bring himself back since his ability's banned. Why would Yhwach, who literally sacrifices his own top subordinates to ensure his own survival in canon, bring back Ichibe, a guy that almost killed him in canon? He's a cocky villain character akin to the ones on Saturday morning cartoons who only cares about his victory and your team's still in character after all with no perfect teamwork or morals off perk and so the likelihood of this happening is close to none. In fact, Ywach is more likely going to kill Ichibe with his own hands in this scenario than revive him if he thought he was up against overwhelming odds.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

The regeneration which the characters in my team posses makes them impossible to kill.

Regeneration that is either, banned or not in the battle isn't going to make anybody impossible to kill.

Based on the feats presented up to now, my team can easily keep up with the other team.

No. Hypersonic Country levelers can't keep up with characters that are FTL+ and casual planet level.

Ultraman and Jhon Stewart have no way to sense spiritual beings.

Addressed.

Ichibe's Hax can single handily destroy the opposing team.

Sure but... Also, with your newest description, it might also be yet another banned ability.

Ywhach's fate manipulation will ensure the future in which my team will easily win will be realized

Win?

No Caption Provided

Conclusion

My opponent's team remains fodder. Nearly every word in his previous post makes this fact more evident. In the latest post, we've discovered that not only is Yhwach's hax banned but a good portion of Icibe's hax is also omitted from this battle. Furthermore, Alita's "regeneration" does not appear to be of her own power and thus would not be a factor in this battle.

Avatar image for unlimited1
#18 Edited by Unlimited1 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos-: Can you clarify the rules on time manipulation? What is time jumping? Is fate manipulation allowed?

Avatar image for sazzmi
#19 Posted by Sazzmi (696 posts) - - Show Bio

You know, I feel like the questions above should have been asked during sign ups rather than after they've become the topic of the debate.

Avatar image for kirkseven
#20 Posted by Kirkseven (2913 posts) - - Show Bio

interesting.

Avatar image for Aristeaus
#21 Posted by Aristeaus (1132 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v

Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
#22 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14706 posts) - - Show Bio

2019 the year of GGs

Avatar image for unlimited1
#23 Posted by Unlimited1 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

@sazzmi: I agree, I didn't expect it to become such a critical point in the debate. Debating it is quite interesting though.

Avatar image for diarrhearegatta
#24 Posted by DiarrheaRegatta (5309 posts) - - Show Bio

Bit of a mess, this one.

Avatar image for sazzmi
#25 Posted by Sazzmi (696 posts) - - Show Bio

@unlimited1: I feel like continuing the power legality debate since we're already so deep into it.

Avatar image for emperorthanos-
#26 Posted by emperorthanos- (16577 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos-: Can you clarify the rules on time manipulation? What is time jumping? Is fate manipulation allowed?

Jumping through time. I'm not sure what the confusion with that is.

What exactly do you mean by fate manip?

Moderator
Avatar image for unlimited1
#27 Posted by Unlimited1 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos-:

Jumping through time. I'm not sure what the confusion with that is.

So jumping between timelines or between different points in time? Or something else entirely?

Avatar image for unlimited1
#28 Posted by Unlimited1 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

@sazzmi: Ok, I'll just ask about what exactly is time jumping then.

Avatar image for emperorthanos-
#29 Posted by emperorthanos- (16577 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
Avatar image for unlimited1
#30 Posted by Unlimited1 (989 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for unlimited1
#31 Edited by Unlimited1 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters

Ugh fine. Zero defeats the soul of Belial (more on him if the time comes), an evil being empowered by an even eviler cosmic god, after getting possessed by him (doubles as a mind/soul resistance feat)

First, you need to prove that the soul of Balial was invisible to average humans to give the comparison between him and Bleach Shinigami even a shred of credibility. If you can do that there still remains the fact that Reiryoku is more similar to Chi than to traditional souls. It is used to cast spells (Kido) and to increase one's physical characteristics. When a Shinigami uses too much of his Reiryoku he needs to eat to replenish it, you can't really compare that to a soul that can possess other living bodies.

Ultraman being able to see Reishi is even more unlikely, as Reishi is simply a different type of particle, of which everything is soul society, including all inanimate objects, is made of. Only if Ultraman has feats of sensing particles that cannot be detected by normal means, he may have a chance of actually seeing Reishi.

Well, friend, I'll just say that's not a good argument. It's tantamount to a lawyer/attorney saying "Oh my client didn't commit grand theft auto, they only stole some random bloke's car." Let me explain it slowly, so Yhawch can literally change the future, therefore, he has "future manipulation." The future is a part of time so "future manipulation" is a part of "time manipulation."

Yhwach can't change the future, he can choose one of many possible futures and jump to it. Since time jumping is allowed, this should be allowed as well.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Yhwach explains that the there is not one single future but a near infinite amount of different futures. The power to "change the future" is actually the power to jump from one possible future to another with both of those futures already existing in the first place. He later explains that all Bankai (Shinigami swords) will be broken at some point in the future, further implying that he is not breaking him himself and that he is, in fact, jumping to a future in which they are already broken.

That's an even worse argument. "Fate" in practice is simply one story's reality. Being able to manipulate this concept would be reality warping.

Reality warping is the power to change reality without interacting with it using the physical laws of the universe that the character in question populates. For example, Mister Mxyzptlk can change reality without giving the universal laws (physical forces, conservation of matter and so on) even an afterthought. Yhwach can jump between possible future, an ability that should be considered time jumping and that hardly resembles reality warping.

So? That ability would be banned as well and if his opponent even looks at the rule he should straight up say "Nah, that's banned." Going back to my attorney analogy, it would be like saying "Mr.Judge, many people have gotten away with murder, look at OJ Simpson. Because of this, I believe my client should also be allowed to get a pass."

Precognition should not be considered time manipulation for this tournament because it doesn't directly affect the timeline in any way. Many characters can predict the future using different methods and with varying degrees of certainty, it is a big stretch to say that all of them are manipulating time.

No, he's not. You think scaling above lightning speed characters is impressive. My characters look at the speed of light the same way we look at the speed of a sloth.

The only speed feats you presented are one case of faulty scaling for Jhon Stewart and Ultraman going around the earth a few times in a second, a feat that is way below lightspeed (light can circle the earth 7 times each second, Ultraman did barely 2) and that characters that are tagged by people way slower that Ichibe, like Jane Foster Thor, are capable of replicating. Bleach characters leagues below Ichibe in speed have reacted to light, something you didn't even clearly prove Ultraman can do, although I am pretty confident he can.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Why does he not? He outranks him and has shown several FTL-MFTL feats of his own. Just because they're different species doesn't mean they can't scale to one another.

Green Lanterns are not ranked based on their speed and if Jhon has FTL-MFTL speed feats of his own you should have posted them. The reason Jhon doesn't scale to Stel is not because they are from different species, its because Jhon was never clearly shown outspeeding Stel.

In this instance, scaling John to Stel is even more concrete since we know they both share the exact same powers and John is more proficient with his.

The powers the green lantern ring provides were never stated to increase the speed in which their user thinks, but maybe you have a scan proving otherwise.

For reference, here's a Zero that was still training fighting multiple FTL+ robots inside a black hole easily an MFTL+ feat that your team can not compete with once again, only in base form.

Proof any of them are FTL+ in combat speed?

You know, it's kinda funny how you mention these supercomputers but they're also not a part of your team and thus not a part of this battle. Which begs the question, how will she regenerate without them?

Many characters draw power from other characters to fight, something that is allowed and excepted. For example, doctor strange has a spell called "crimson bands of Cyttorak" which relies upon the power of Cyttorak, do you believe he can't use if Cyttorak isn't in his team? As long as the Melchizedek and Zeus don't actually fight in the battle, Alita, who is connected to them by a holographic memory device implanted in her brain chip, should be allowed to excess use their great processing power to her advantage.

Scroll up to the rules one last time (specifically number 7) and come back down once you've finished reading them.

Rule number 7 states the power Copying and power stealing are not allowed. Ichibe can't copy powers so he is definitely not breaking the first part of the rule and he can't use the powers he "takes" from others so he is not stealing powers, which means he isn't breaking the second part of the rule either.

Why would Yhwach, who literally sacrifices his own top subordinates to ensure his own survival in canon, bring back Ichibe, a guy that almost killed him in canon? He's a cocky villain character akin to the ones on Saturday morning cartoons who only cares about his victory and your team's still in character after all with no perfect teamwork or morals off perk and so the likelihood of this happening is close to none. In fact, Yhwach is more likely going to kill Ichibe with his own hands in this scenario than revive him if he thought he was up against overwhelming odds.

This argument makes no sense. Yhwach took the powers he gave to his subordinates back which resulted in their deaths, he killed them, as you said, only to ensure his own survival. Yhwach is not stupid and he certainly realizes the value of strong allies, that's why he created dozens of them in the first place. If he had the opportunity to revive one of his allies for little to no cost he would have certainly done so. The only reason Ichibe fought Yhwach in the manga is that he wanted to protect the Soul King who doesn't exist here, so they won't fight between themselves if that's what you mean.

Avatar image for unlimited1
#32 Posted by Unlimited1 (989 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for saltysultan
#33 Posted by SaltySultan (261 posts) - - Show Bio

i don't know why but I was convinced Alita was a street tier verse for some reason.

t4v

Avatar image for sazzmi
#34 Edited by Sazzmi (696 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters

First, you need to prove that the soul of Balial was invisible to average humans to give the comparison between him and Bleach Shinigami even a shred of credibility. If you can do that there still remains the fact that Reiryoku is more similar to Chi than to traditional souls. It is used to cast spells (Kido) and to increase one's physical characteristics. When a Shinigami uses too much of his Reiryoku he needs to eat to replenish it, you can't really compare that to a soul that can possess other living bodies.

He was invisible prior to the possession. And likely was after.

Ultraman being able to see Reishi is even more unlikely, as Reishi is simply a different type of particle, of which everything is soul society, including all inanimate objects, is made of. Only if Ultraman has feats of sensing particles that cannot be detected by normal means, he may have a chance of actually seeing Reishi.

Ultras have enhanced vision and see invisible things. Here's a gif visually demonstrating this.

No Caption Provided

Yhwach can't change the future,

Weird how you say this but you also posted this scan.

No Caption Provided

he can choose one of many possible futures and jump to it. Since time jumping is allowed, this should be allowed as well.

Nice word choice. I suppose I'll show the pages where the man himself explains his power.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

The "jumping" word you chose is simply a part of a larger metaphor in which he explains how he chooses the future reality he wants to play out and not actually how his ability works. Furthermore, in nearly every other instance that isn't a metaphor like this one, he states that he actively manipulates the future. So yes, this ability is time/reality manipulation and thus is banned. Moving on

Precognition should not be considered time manipulation for this tournament because it doesn't directly affect the timeline in any way. Many characters can predict the future using different methods and with varying degrees of certainty, it is a big stretch to say that all of them are manipulating time.

It's a case by case situation. If the precognition is time-based, it's a form of time manipulation not allowed by the rules.

Green Lanterns are not ranked based on their speed

You're right. They're ranked based on their experience and proficiency with their rings. And generally speaking, the more proficient you are with your ring, the faster you are.

The reason Jhon doesn't scale to Stel is not because they are from different species, its because Jhon was never clearly shown outspeeding Stel

Here's the thing. We know that John is faster than the average Green Lanterns though. Here he's in the lead of a group of Lanterns and reacts first to Hal's explosion. And this is consistent too, he's described the best flyers in the corps and the best from Earth.

Hal Jordan And The Green Lantern Corps #7
Hal Jordan And The Green Lantern Corps #7

The powers the green lantern ring provides were never stated to increase the speed in which their user thinks, but maybe you have a scan proving otherwise

It's consistently shown that the better you are with the ring the faster you are. Here's Sinestro casually out-speeding his rookie daughter as an example.

Sinestro #12
Sinestro #12

Proof any of them are FTL+ in combat speed?

The fact that they're fighting within the pull of a black hole without getting sucked in is proof enough but if you want, here's a lesser kaiju and an ultra fighting at MFTL speeds going from the edge of the solar system to the sun in seconds.

No Caption Provided

rule number 7 states the power Copying and power stealing are not allowed. Ichibe can't copy powers so he is definitely not breaking the first part of the rule and he can't use the powers he "takes" from others so he is not stealing powers, which means he isn't breaking the second part of the rule either.

Look up the definition of "steal" please. Stealing is the act of taking something that isn't yours without the intention of giving it back. What Ichibe does to his opponent's powers falls under this definition and thus is another illegal ability.

Many characters draw power from other characters to fight, something that is allowed and excepted. For example, doctor strange has a spell called "crimson bands of Cyttorak" which relies upon the power of Cyttorak, do you believe he can't use if Cyttorak isn't in his team? As long as the Melchizedek and Zeus don't actually fight in the battle, Alita, who is connected to them by a holographic memory device implanted in her brain chip, should be allowed to excess use their great processing power to her advantage.

Fair enough. But by your own admission, she gets obliterated instantly and without much of a fight.

This argument makes no sense. Yhwach took the powers he gave to his subordinates back which resulted in their deaths, he killed them, as you said, only to ensure his own survival. Yhwach is not stupid and he certainly realizes the value of strong allies, that's why he created dozens of them in the first place. If he had the opportunity to revive one of his allies for little to no cost he would have certainly done so. The only reason Ichibe fought Yhwach in the manga is that he wanted to protect the Soul King who doesn't exist here, so they won't fight between themselves if that's what you mean.

You misunderstand, I'm not suggesting they fight amongst themselves but rather I'm saying that Ywach bringing back Ichibe is not a likely scenario given his personality. Especially after he's obtained his current status where he literally states he doesn't need his subordinates and rather than just letting them live and keep the other members of the opposition busy, he kills them. And seeing that this version is the "current" version of Ywach, there's no doubt he'll use the same philosophy during this battle except rather than actively killing his teammates, he just won't revive them if given the opportunity as he sees that action as beneath him.

No Caption Provided

Conclusion

Same conclusion as my previous posts.

Avatar image for sazzmi
#35 Edited by Sazzmi (696 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: @faradaysloth: @unlimited1: Post is Up

Are three posts each OK with you?

I'm fine. If you want to get one last post for closing arguements or whatever it's cool.

Avatar image for unlimited1
#36 Posted by Unlimited1 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

@sazzmi: I'll stick to 3 posts. Weird how this became a debate about tournament rules.

Avatar image for unlimited1
#37 Posted by Unlimited1 (989 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for ourmanuel
#38 Edited by ourmanuel (11965 posts) - - Show Bio

The almighty is time/reality manipulation?

What?

I’ll have quite a lot of nitpicking to do here.

Online
Avatar image for Aristeaus
#39 Posted by Aristeaus (1132 posts) - - Show Bio

Vote for @unlimited1

He was the only one to reference the "fight" portion of the battle, while @sazzmi focused only on powers and counters, which while important, you still have to present a argument on how you win.

You cannot simply say "Their morals are off, so they will use their most powerful attacks from the start. After this initial attack, the enemy team will be no more.", and expect that to be enough of a argument to win.

Avatar image for geekryan
#40 Posted by geekryan (4789 posts) - - Show Bio

Before I can give my vote, I need @emperorthanos- to make a judgement on the whole time manipulation aspect of this debate

Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
#41 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14706 posts) - - Show Bio

@geekryan: He already specified what forms of time manipulation is allowed.

Time Jumping, remnants, speeding up ones own time is allowed. Other forms of time manip is banned.

I don't see any allowed form of time manipulation in this battle.

Avatar image for sazzmi
#42 Posted by Sazzmi (696 posts) - - Show Bio


@ourmanuel Go ahead.

@Aristeaus Thanks for the vote although I have a couple things to say about your explanation. Now, this is simply to clarify any confusion you may have had with my posts and not meant to start a new debate.

He was the only one to reference the "fight" portion of the battle

I referenced the battle. It might not have been as direct as you may have liked but I did reference it.

while @sazzmi focused only on powers and counters, which while important, you still have to present a argument on how you win.

You cannot simply say "Their morals are off, so they will use their most powerful attacks from the start. After this initial attack, the enemy team will be no more.", and expect that to be enough of a argument to win.

1. That was far from my only argument and even if it was that's an argument I presented

2. A counter-argument is still an argument. The goal of my posts was to eliminate any win conditions my opponent may have rather than prove my win condition was the superior one.

@geekryan I feel like since it was such a large part of the actual debate, the voters should be the judge of that.

Please excuse the following call out tags

Tourney tags

1.@foxerdes

Characters: Malekith (3) and Dr.Fate (7).

Feats: Prep negation (10) and perfect teamwork (5)

2.@defiant_will

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Characters:

  • Belcross (7)
  • Hellstar Remina (8)

Perks:

  • 2 Extra Character Points (5)
  • 4 Extra Character Points (10)

3.@geekryan

Characters

  • Magneto (5)
  • Jean Grey (3)
  • Invisible Woman (2)

Perks

  • Morals Off (8)
  • Basic Knowledge (5)
  • 1 Hour of Prep (1)
  • 200 Ultron Bots (1)

4.@beatboks1

Characters

  • Mr. Terrific 1 (10 T-Spheres)
  • Hawk Man 1
  • Mera 2
  • FOX Apocalypse 2
  • Psycho Pirate 3

Perks

  • 1 hour of prep anywhere 5
  • 1 hour of prep 1 x 2 (after 1 hr prep anywhere)
  • Mind Link 2
  • Spider sense 1 x 2 (mera and Psycho pirate)
  • Flight 1 x 2 (mera and Psycho pirate)
  • Adamantium weapons 2

5.@sazzmi

  • John Stewart (4)
  • Ultraman Zero (6)

Perks

  • Morals Off (8)
  • Basic Knowledge (5)
  • Mind Link (2)

6.@thenewguysnm1

Characters

  • Composite BUU(7)
  • Pre jubbi Obito(2)
  • Madara(Jubbi)(3)
  • Law(One Piece)(2)

Perks

  • 4 Extra character points(10)
  • 1 hour prep (1)
  • Sherlock holmes Brain(2)
  • Invisibility(2)

7.@juiceboks

Mordru (8)

Ultimate Jean Grey (4)

Perks..

2 more character points (5)

Full Knowledge (8)

2 Hour Prep (2)

8.@chronicplane

Team:

  • Beerus - (10)
  • MCU Strange - (1)
  • Composite Twilight Sparkle (w/ Alicorn Amps) (3)

Perks:

  • 2 Hours Prep At a College Science Lab - (3)
  • 4 Extra character points - (10)
  • Mind Link - (2)

9.@unlimited1

Team

  • Ichibei 2
  • Ywach 3
  • Alita 6

I won't use that last point.

Perks

  • 2 extra character points 5
  • Mind/Soul Immunity 7
  • Adamantium weapons (Alita) 2
  • Flight (Alita) 1

10. @aqualion0

Characters :

  • Monarch (10)
  • Vulcan (3)
  • Ultimate Invisible Woman (1)

Perks :

  • 4 Extra character points - (10)
  • Perfect team work - (5)

11.@vsw

  • Lee Soo-Jin(6)
  • Han Dawei(6)

Perks

  • 2 Extra character points(5)
  • Mind/Soul immunity(6)
  • 1 hour prep(1)
  • Invisibility(Lee Soo-Jin) (2)

12.@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimp

  • Darkrai (1)
  • Mega Mewtwo (3)
  • Kirby (6)
  • 1 hour of prep (1)
  • Spider sense (1 - Apply to Kirby)
  • Molecular Manip immunity (6)
  • Mind/Soul Immunity (7)

13.@maestromage

  • Jirou (7)
  • Midora (9)

Perks

  • 2 More character points (5)
  • 4 More character points (10)

14.@_kingoflatveria

  • Ultron
  • CW Supergirl
  • Week of prep

15.@ashrym

Characters

  • Magik (7)
  • N52 Aquaman (3)

Perks

  • Lightspeed x2 (14)
  • Spidersense, Magik (1)

16.@xlr87t3

Here is my finalized team:

  • Rebirth Superman 4
  • Pre-52 Martian Manhunter 6

Perks:

  • Morals off 8
  • Basic knowledge 5
  • 1 hour prep 1
  • Batman martial arts (Superman) 1

17.@sawed_off_it

Finalized Team:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4
  • Gilgamesh - 2 pts
  • Lucifer (Supernatural) - 1 pt
  • Professor X - 2 pts
  • Hunter Prey Doomsday - 7 pts

Perks:

  • Perfect Teamwork - 5 pts
  • 2 Extra Character Points - 5 pts
  • Adamantium Weaponry (Gilgamesh) - 2 pts
  • Invisibility (Xavier) - 2 pts
  • 1 Hour Prep - 1 pt

18.@kevd4wg

Characters

  • Plutonian(6)
  • Ronan(3)
  • Fox Magneto(1)

Perks

  • Mind/Soul Immunity(7)
  • Basic Knowledge(5)
  • Adamantium Weapons(2)
  • 1 Hour Prep(1)

19.@major_hellstrom

Mothra (1), Mano (5) and Abra Kadabra (6)

Light speed (Mano) (7)

2 Extra character points (5)

Invisibility (2) (Abra Kadabra)

1 hour prep (1)

20. @avaliantimge

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Solar (Gold Key/Valiant) 7

Perfect Cell 5

  • Mind/Soul Immunity 7
  • 2 more character points 5
  • Mind Link 2
  • 1 hour of prep 1

21. @chromtheexalt

666:Satan (9)

Gowther (1)

Perks

Mind/Soul Immunity (7)

Mind Link (2)

Spider Sense (Satan) (1)

Invisibility (Gowther) (2)

Nightcrawler Teleportation (Gowther) (3)

22. @precrisisbardock

  • Jiren 10

Perks

  • Basic Knowlege 5
  • Prep negation 10

23. @deathhero61

This is my team(for now)

  • Ohkwang(7)
  • Merlin(2)
  • Robot 1

Perks(15)

  • Light Speed(7) for Merlin
  • No Friendly Fire(5)
  • 2 Hours Prep At a College Science Lab (3)

24. @mr_ingenuity

Characters

  • X-Man (7)
  • Mantis (3)
  • Mirror Master (2)

Perks

  • Full Knowledge(Complete knowledge on all feats) (8)
  • 2 more character points (5)
  • 1 hour of prep (x2)

25.@tomtheawesome123

  • Thanos (9)
  • Ben 10 Composite (5)

Perks are 4 extra Character points (10) and 1 hour prep anywhere (5)

26.@mideast619

  • Black Bolt (4)
  • Graviton (6)
  • All for One (1)
  • Psylocke (Omega) (1)

Perks

  • 2 more character points (5)
  • perfect teamwork (5)
  • Wolverine's regeneration (Psylocke) (5)

Reserves

@higherpower

  • Sailor Moon - 10
  • Devilman - 4

Perks

  • 4 more character points - 10
  • Invisibility (Devilman) - 2
  • 2 hours of prep - 2

@thewatcherking

Phoenix Man(1),CW Thinker(2) and Janemba(I assume he is a 7 if Composite Buu is).

Perks

  • Soul/TP immunity (7)
  • Invisibility (2)
  • No Friendly fire (5)
  • 1 hr prep(1)

@lil_remains

Characters:

Dr. Doom - 7

Ultra Humanite - 6

Perks:

4 character points - 10 (yeesh)

1 hr of prep anywhere - 5

@diarrhearegatta

Composite Mysterio (1)

Brainiac (8)

Psylocke (Omega) (1)

Lightspeed (Mysterio) (7)

1 hour of prep (1)

1 hour of prep anywhere (5)

Invisibility (Mysterio) 2

@jacthripper

Well, reserve me as well ( at this point you might as well split this into two tournaments...)

Team

Jin Mo-Ri (10)

Perks

  • Molecular Manipulation immunity (6)
  • Mind/Soul Immunity (7)
  • Sherlock Brain (2)
Avatar image for thenewguysnm1
#43 Edited by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

Don’t ever tag me again

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#44 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17965 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#45 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17965 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote for @sazzmi, his simple argument of using his team's most powerful attacks, which would wipe out the enemy team in the initial start of the battle, combined with the fact that they are morals off which strengthened his claim, was enough to convince me that his team would win.

Online
Avatar image for diarrhearegatta
#46 Edited by DiarrheaRegatta (5309 posts) - - Show Bio

@sazzmi, if only because the other guy seems to be using illegal powers, which for obvious reasons means I can't really vote for them seriously.

Neither did well here (something that I think sazzmi knows himself, to be honest) and this really wasn't a good debate. A lot of highballing and inaccurate statements drag this down.

Avatar image for Aristeaus
#47 Posted by Aristeaus (1132 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote for @sazzmi, his simple argument of using his team's most powerful attacks, which would wipe out the enemy team in the initial start of the battle, combined with the fact that they are morals off which strengthened his claim, was enough to convince me that his team would win.

lol. I know you are better then that. What attacks are those? There are no listed offensive feats for Jon at all. There is one scan of him "fighting" the justice league, but that was not really a powerful attack. If it doesn't kill batman, its not going to do anything to the opponents. It was also countered by Unlimited.

Zero has one feat posted, and a bunch of scaling statements. Now granted, Unlimited should have spent more time countering Zero, as it would have made it a far more decisive victory, and the battle itself was convoluted and mostly relying on the argument of potentially banned abilities.

But at no point should someone win a fight by providing zero strategy, and 1 offensive feat for one of their characters.

I will say though that Sazzmi's team is clearly better outside of the arguments, and should have won if he referenced even the most basic CaV formula. But, that isn't what we vote on. We don't take our knowledge of characters and apply them on a debaters behalf when voting.

Avatar image for thewatcherking
#48 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18478 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote for @sazzmi, his simple argument of using his team's most powerful attacks, which would wipe out the enemy team in the initial start of the battle, combined with the fact that they are morals off which strengthened his claim, was enough to convince me that his team would win.

Avatar image for sazzmi
#49 Posted by Sazzmi (696 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for thenewguysnm1
#50 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio