He was like Superman, with a super evil castle and some signs of being evil. Then Surprise he turned evil. Then he got rekt by a smart dude.
Powers and Abilities
Superhuman Strength
Superhuman Durability
Superhuman Speed
Heatvision
Frost Breath
Kinda telepathy
Super-Senses
Intangibility
Super Smart
Lol jk it's all super telekinses
Ronan The Accuser: The Hax
Bio
Imagine Captain America, but kree and with a hammer instead of a Shield
Powers and Abilities
Like literally anything/everything
Fox Magneto: Just Kinda There
Bio
His momma got killed by Nazis, now he's a complicated villain
Powers
He controls metal
Perks
So lets start by talking about my perks, which will kinda lead into my strategy. Starting off is Mind/Soul Immunity, I don't think you have either of those, so that's kinda useless, but if you do, I'm defended against it. Basic Knowledge is also pretty handy, I'll know your general powers and abilities beforehand, which will help quite a bit in prep and planning out strategy, we can know what's coming. Furthermore, I have adamantium weapons, now for this, I'm taking two gigantic Adamantium Maces
Now, obviously that's a lot of Metal in these Maces and Adamantium is the most powerful weapon there is. Luckily on our team we have Magneto, master of magnetism who can manipulate all that metal into something better. Magneto is going to Manipulate these firstly into two daggers so that Plutonian can just do some easy chopping off of the heads and limbs. Adamantium is one of the strongest metals in fiction and with Magneto making these blades very sharp, they're going to be deadly as hell. Take for instance Wolverine's claws where they've cut through almost everyone and he's like at most a 5 tonner with bullet timing speed, meanwhile Plutonian has solar system ish level strength and FTL at least speeds. So for Wolverine
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Ignore pls, shameless copy from another CaV
Wolverine's claws casually cut through Gladiator(Annihilators: Earthfall #2)
Wolverine's claws cut Thor(Wolverine vs Thor #2)
Wolverine's claws easily cut through Mangog(Thunderstrike vol 2 #5)
And most impressively Wolverine's claws easily cut through Thanos(Infinity Gauntlet #4)
Furthermore with Basic Knowledge we'll know about the gravity Manipulation stuff, so Ronan can mess it up with you, equalizing it out or maybe just driving the battlefield insane. For some references of this
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Annihilation: Ronan #2/4\3
In the first two scans Ronan cancels Nebula's gravity. Now, it doesn't really matter how much stronger the gravity is, Ronan isn't reducing it, he's just straight up turning it off, which is a pretty hard counter. Now as for the 3rd scan, Ronan calls down a firestorm upon the battlefield, something he can do to your team as well, especially in prep to make the battlefield pretty crazy.
Strategy
The primary strategy involves Plutonian getting in close quarters and overwhelming your team physically, cutting them up, while Ronan stays at a distance dropping different hax on them, and Magneto takes little pieces of Adamantium left over and sends it flying toward your team members. Let's start off this strategy with the pure force of Plutonian in CQC. I think I mentioned that he has solar system level strength, well...
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Scan 1-3: Plutonian stands up under the weight of a solar system; also doubles as a starish level durability feat(Irredeemable #21)
Scan 4-6: Plutonian carries something around the globe that's so heavy it collapses into a neutron star(Irredeemable #37)
Keep in mind during the first instance he's literally unconscious and doing this unintentionally and in the second instance, he's literally flying around the globe at relativistic speeds while holding something that has the weight of the star. Furthermore, Plutonian is pretty damn fast, take for instance Irredeemable #2 where before a radio wave can reach the atmosphere, Plutonian realizes it's been sent, outraces it, and destroys the satellite. The time described for the LS beam to reach the planet earth is described as "All the Time in the World." Pretty clear cut FTL speed.
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Plutonians durability is fantastic as well, no more lacking then his strength. In Irredeemable #35/36, Plutonian fights Modeus who has taken over his crush's body. Modeus channels the power of literal star systems into his punches and Plutonian manages to remain conscious.
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Despite taking all those punches with the energy's of star systems(pretty casual star level durability at least), Plutonian is still able to get back up after the beating. From what I saw of your last post, your team will be pretty hard pressed to replicate that kind of damage output, and this still isn't close to everything Plutonian offers in CQC fighting. Like his heatvision, which casually carved a crater across North America
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Reverse Order
Or take for instance all the hax he learned he had and showed off in Irredeemable #34, all of which is pretty helpful in CQC and should allow Plutonian to take the advantage against your team in CQC.
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Scan 1: Plutonian uses intangibility and literally blows up a mountain just by snapping his fingers
Scan 2: Plutonian can stop inertia, like stopping the rotation of the moon with one hand
Scan 3-4: Plutonian uses TK on radioactive materials
So yeah, that's pretty cool, especially the intangibility one to help with CQC as even though he can take a ton of hits(and probably one-shot with decap), he doesn't even have to, he can just phase. Meanwhile, Ronan can chill dropping hax from the back, like when he turned this guy's hand into a bomb using Matter Manipulation in Annihilation: Ronan #1
Furthermore Magneto can channel a ton of metal into your characters like he did against Apocalypse in X-Men: Apocalypse. This time it'll be with Adamantium though and so actually deadly.
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Initial Considerations
Quite simply, you have to show you can deal with Plutonians overwhelming presence along with the support from Ronan and Magneto.
Han lived a pretty ordinary life. He was a delinquent, and met a fried who shortly came down with a terminal sickness. In order to save his Life, Han joined the God of high school tournament, which promises its champion any wish they could dream of. Unfortunately, his friend died during the tournament, but Han still managed to make new friends with Mira and Jin mori. He later gained the abilities to control the 4 fundamental forces of the universe, which gave him a huge amp in stats, abilities and speed. He went from being a low street to High Herald/Team buster in one swoop.
As for Lee Suu-Jin, her father was a specialist martial artist who specialised in the northen korea ITF fighting style. One day, he was captured by South Korean operatives, and forced to spill the secrets of his martial arts(and in doing so, was promised that the South Koreans would liberate her daughter and wife). Meanwhile for Lee suu jin, her and her mother were sent to a concentration camp of sorts, only to have a mine cave in on her family and friends. She then started digging until her fingers bled, with her mothers rotting corpse decaying next to her, making the smell in there unbearable. As you could imagine, this traumatised her, making her hate Southern Korea for taking away not only her parents, but her entire life.
She was soon recruited into the same agency as her father; proceeded to learn all his martial arts moves, before joining a religious cult.....she then betrayed them, and at this day and age, has her own country....
Powers and abilities.
Just to give you a little taster as to what my team can do, I figured ill go across the important things when it comes to my characters stats and so on. This isn't here so much for you to counter - my strategy doesn't really rely on most of the raw stats of the participants here. This is mainly here just so you can get an accurate understanding of how strong my team are, and what their versatility is like. I've withheld from demonstrating some abilities, As i'd rather bring them up in my strategy.
Starting with Lee Suu-Jin, her stats are pretty impressive. In base form(without the use of any her charyeouk, which is essentially what supplies her with her abilities/amped stats. Equate this to something like Thor fighting on par with his usual foes without the use of his Hammer) she clashed with base Jin mori and created a shockwave visible from space:
This feat was preformed when she was exhausted, and at her absolute lowest point. So as you can imagine, it makes the feat way more impressive. Although, at first glance the feat only looks to be only country level or so, but in order to understand the magnitude of the feat she accomplished , you must take into consideration the size of the planet in which she made the shockwave on. We can derive its size from Jin's staff, which is capable of extending between the Moon and Earth which is 384,400km. Incase you didn't Know, The gap between the Moon and Earth is so large that you could fit every planet in the Solar system between it with room to spare.
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Whats my Opinion on the size of the planet? Well it should be small star sized; it's significantly larger than Yeoui, hence its significantly larger than jupiter, so it should be slightly smaller than the sun. So looking back at the shockwave, it should easily be large planet sized, or at least, several times larger than earth.
She possesses a feat which dwarves this one by several magnitudes, but as i said earlier, the use of this section isn't for me to present a physical argument for my team facing Plutonian(Even though we most likely could), its here in order for you to have a rough grasp of her stats. Her durability is on the same level, but as to my previous point i won't be showcasing it as its unnecessary.
As for speed, she's solidly faster than Plutonian. She managed to not only fight FCP on equal terms, but react to his attacks/ keep up with him in combat etc:
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FCP himself is dozens of times faster than light. He can react to Yoeui's expansion, which can cross the distance between the Moon and Earth in a fraction of a second(At least, before hypersonic projectiles could pierce Han Dawae's back, which clocks the staff in at dozens of times faster than light):
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Scans demonstrating the speed of Yoeui. It crosses the distance between the moon and earth before a hypersonic projectile can kill Han. As such, its easily dozens of times FTL.
As for her abilities, you'll find that she's easily one of the most versatile characters in fiction. One of her most useful abilities is vector manipulation. She can use to reflect/deflect any stray attacks which come her way. She's used this ability to deflect an attack of FCP. I already posted those scans but ill do so again:
This is extremely impressive due to the fact that FCP can match Jin Mori's blows, and Jin Mori can make Shockwaves which dwarf Orageuk. As i mentioned earlier, Orageuk is a small star sized planet, making Jin's shockwaves about Large planet+ sized:
She also possesses Poison/Transmutation attacks, while allow her to petrify her enemies/stop them utilising weapons to their fullest potential. As such, this requires both Transmutation resistance and Poison resistance, as it falls under both:
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Lastly, she possesses the over powered ability to seal the Powerset of anyone she comes across. Yes, you read that correct. She can completely and utterly leave them powerless, and she simply has to glance at them to accomplish it. A very good example of this is Lee Suu-Jins interaction with priest Big Man(Yes, thats his name). His ability was that over life and death....He could resurrect the dead(regardless of how many years ago they were killed, or the location they were killed at), and he himself possesses an incredible regeneration ability - so great, he can survive being ripped into pieces. As you can see below, he regenerates, raises an army of the dead, and summons the sister of the monkey with the white hair fighting in order to distract her.
This demonstrates just how much control Priest Big man had over the dead. However, Lee Suu-Jin easily managed to seal his ability, which made his stats just on par/above that of a regular humans with a mere glance:
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She can even seal stats, as shown when he seals King Uma's strength, and King Uma possesses some incredible feats. However, I don't feel a need to show them at this particular point in time. No one on your team is an actual threat due to raw strength.
Next ill start with Han. I place him within the tiers of high herald to low Teambuster, and rightly so - he has the feats to back it up. I won't bother focusing on Han's physical statistics, as I don't think he'll need them for this match(Ill explain later why), however I will of course bring up his speed. Han, like Lee suu jin, is easily faster than your team, as seen when he can perceive the expansion of Yeoui. This should count as a very good reaction speed feat for him for reasons I touched on regarding Yeoui's expansion speed earlier:
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The real reason as to why I chose Han is due to his manipulation of the 4 fundamental forces of the universe. I won't bring up his uses of electromagnetism because i doubt he'd use them here. Starting with Gravity manipulation, Han has done some pretty crazy things. For one, he changed the gravity of an area to 1000x times. This managed to fell the God Zeus:
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Also notice how he manages to only effect his enemies, and not his allies. This once again shows the level of control Han has with his gravity.
Now, this is especially important because Zeus is an absolute beast when it comes to strength. He manages to Push Yoeui out of the way with a slight tap of his hand in a glorious manor:
This is impressive as Yoeui is an extremely heavy object. It was stated to weigh around six sextillion tons or something like that. However statements aren't always valid proof, so I shall of course provide feats. Uriel was able to hold up Mars moving at Sub relativistic speeds, but when she tried to pick up Yoeui, her arms snapped off in an almost cartoonish manor. Keep in mind, this is V.2. Uriel, and as such, should be significantly stronger than the previous version which held Mars:
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Read right to left.
So Yeoui, an object which has a mass of a planet can easily be pushed to the side by Zeus, yet Han's gravity was so extreme it made him kneel. This should demonstrate the raw force of the gravity Han can inflict on his enemies.
If you're wondering why Mars was by Earth in the first place, its because Han threw it using his Gravity manipulation. Throwing a planet on its own is already a superb feat, however considering the fact that he managed to do it within a few seconds means its moving at MFTL speeds. This was done by an exhausted, inexperienced Han Dawae by the way. Let alone the current 37 year old version i'm using:
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Now, there's one more really impressive planet toss feat which Han has, but I won't bring that up now. I must save some things for my second post after all.
Next, Ill focus on Han Dawae's energy projection utilising strong force. Through channeling his power through his pet(Which is the blue 'dog' you can see in the scans below) he managed to create a Moon - Small planet sized energy attack easily comparable in size to the Earth. I realise that summons stronger than Iron man aren't allowed, however, Han Dawae should easily be able to replicate such a feat on his own:
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Keep in mind, that was a minuscule ball of Strong force. Han can create something several times bigger. Said attack was compared to the sun.
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Compared to the sun...
While i'm not completely sure wether the blast was actually Sun level(Except that statement, there's no evidence pointing towards or against it), it would still be several times above planetary regardless due to the size of the attack. Lastly, we have weak force. This allows Han to decompose anything on a sub atomic level.
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As one would imagine, this requires sub atomic feats to resist. That brings me to the end of this part of my post. Let me clarify my actual strategy for you know.
Strategy - Infiltrate.Weaken.Conquer.
My strategy quickly debunks yours, so instead of countering it bit by bit, I'll just lay out the groundwork of my plan.
During prep...
First of all, during prep Lee Soo Jin is going to activate the Sovereignty. This ability allows her to essentially control all the laws of physics within an area:
As you can see above, her ability can not only covers the AOE of a small star(That planet in those scans are Orageuk by the way), it can also control the amount of energy needed to Oneshot it(The explosion in those scans in which she uses her ability to mitigate). This shows a phenomenal amount of control with her abilities. Most of your teams attacks rely on Energy attacks(or, they at least use them), so unless they are above star level, they are pretty much useless.
However, my aim with Lee Suu Jin is more than just stopping energy attacks. She can also cancel out certain abilities using the Sovereinighty. Take for instance, where she negates Ohkwangs ability to control the 4 fundamental forces of the universe(Gravity, weak force, strong force and electromagnetism). This is important, as Plutonian's ability to alter quantum mechanics is an almost similar ability, meaning she should have no difficulty negating his powers. Magneto and Ronan both utilise similar powers as well, so they'd be getting countered too:
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So Lee suu jin will activate the Sovereignty during prep, and once the battle begins Lee Suu Jin will instantly negate your powers. And she's by all means fast enough to do this, as i proved earlier. Ill touch on this more later, however what's important to note now is what the sovereignty is, what is can do, and know that it will be activated during prep.
Next, Han would increase the Gravity by 1000x times.
This brings me onto your claim of Ronan somehow being able to negate gravity. Now, keep in mind that his abilities will be shut off(again, more on that in the next section), however even if his abilities weren't handicapped, he would still be crushed by the gravity.
Why? Well It should be quite obvious that the gravity Ronan negated on that planet isn't anywhere Close to what Han's gravity like, which can fell Planet pushing foes. That's a classic case of No Limits Fallacy my friend, so you'll need to Present scans of Ronan cancelling out gravity as powerful as Han's, or he can't.
Once the battle starts....
Once the battle starts, its important to note that Lee and Han are faster than your team to the point where it isn't funny. I already demonstrated this in several sections. Hence, as soon as the battle starts, two things will happen:
1. Lee Suu Jin will use her soverienigty to nullify Plutonians abilities.
So Plutonian's ability to manipulate quantum machinics etc will be gone. This is definately a plausible idea, as Plutonian isn't a stranger to having his abilities removes:
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Seeing as such a thing has been done before, I don't think my strategy is a stretch by any sense of the word. This ability would also nullify Magneto's abilities and Ronan's gravity manipulation - not that that was a threat anyway. Next:
2. Lee Suu Jin would seal your remaining abilities.
This would insure that any other abilities that the Sovereignty didn't manage to negate is instantly sealed off. As such, your team would instantly be crushed under the weight of Han's gravity, Since all you stats would have been debunked to that of a regular human. Or Han could use a range of his other abilities to oneshot your team at this point, such as tossing a planet etc.
Conclusion
My thoughts on the match? Well, seeing as Lee has the overwhelming speed advantage - coupled with her ability to control the laws of physics and seal abilities, I feel like my team take a predominant victory. I haven't chosen to go through your strategy Step by step, and start dismantling it for a simple reason - you have to prove that your team is fast enough to react to Lee Suu jin sealing your abilities.
And that is simply impossible for you to do. I will admit that i'm unknowledgeable on Ronan, but from what I know his Speed isn't anything to marvel at. As for Plutonian, his best feats are all FTL but they're incomparable to Yeoui's expansion, and Lee and Han both dwarf that when it comes to speed. My team should win without much trouble.
This is the singular biggest problem I have with your entire post, and boy is it a doozy. I'm going to break down in multiple steps why I think this is extremely flawed and why your entire first post falls apart due to it.
Firstly, I want to talk about how reliant your post is on this scaling. With the exception of hax feats and 1 feat of throwing Mars, literally every single feat in your post can be traced back to scaling based on Youei, whether it be the size of the planet, or the speed of the extension, both of which I believe are flawed. Therefore, as long as I can debunk this scaling, your characters become a lot weaker, and not only does it become easier for my characters to win, but your first post kinda falls flat.
I'll start with the distance, which is the one with more problems and easier to debunk. Firstly, you compare the size of the planet to the size of the staff extended with the moon, however when Jin clones himself a ton of times and each clone extends the staff, we can see the Youei are all different lengths
This is especially true because when Jin makes all of these thicker(like he would have to to take up the amount of space it did on the moon), it is seemingly a lot bigger in comparison to the planet then the scan you posted earlier was
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Note the difference in size to the planet, just another example of why this scaling is flawed
Furthermore, we don't have a frame of reference to Orageuk like the distance of the Earth and the Moon that is a very scientific, not very well known distance, so we're basing it off size compared to the planet. However, if we take the moon scan and do the same thing, it's clear that the writer/artists did not at all leave room for all the planets in the solar system or a small star sized object
Notice the Rocks at the top of the first panel and coming off the second panel, thus meaning the end of the first panel is at the moon
If we see the staff fully expanded compared to the Earth, it doesn't look like you could fit an object several hundred times the size of the earth in that distance, at all, the staff honestly looks pretty comparable in size to the earth at best. And before you say I'm being overly nitpicky or taking frame of reference over scientific fact, I'm judging the staff in comparison to the Earth's size to determine it's size the exact same way you're judging the "star sized" planet off Youei. So if this scaling isn't applicable, neither is determining the size of Orageuk or whatever it's called. Also it would make the speed a lot less impressive, more in the relativistic range then dozens of times FTL.
I'm not done with size scaling either, as take an example of when Jin extends it in combat(an example you posted as a speed feat in your own post, which is where I got it from), the bottom of the staff is barely bigger then Jin
Now considering that the Staff made a country sized hole in the moon, what does this mean? Well it means one of too things. Either
Jin is country sized Or...
The staff expands to different lengths/isn't consistent and isn't fair to scale off of
Overall, I'd be generous and say that Orageuk is 2x the size of Earth, but not this any shockwave on it is large planet thing you've been pushing in your post.
Now, let's talk about speed, which kinda boils down to the same thing. The differences/inconsistencies in the size of the staff should also apply to speed. In the instance you posted that the dude reacted to, it was barely wider then Jin instead of the country sized it was when it performed it's FTL feat. Would that make a difference? It certainly would seem to imo and at absolute best the feat is pretty questionable and I wouldn't take it too seriously. Furthermore when all the clones expanded their youei(remember same time, same jin, same mindset, etc), they were all different sizes, which would obviously mean different speeds.
Overall, I just don't think the scaling is very valid, much less the extreme over-reliance you have on the scaling in your post.
Lee Suu-Jin
She possesses a feat which dwarves this one by several magnitudes, but as i said earlier, the use of this section isn't for me to present a physical argument for my team facing Plutonian(Even though we most likely could), its here in order for you to have a rough grasp of her stats. Her durability is on the same level, but as to my previous point i won't be showcasing it as its unnecessary.
I really think you should showcase physicals more, I mean as of now, Plutonian kinda physically dominates your team solo. That country level shockwave, which as I've went over is like maybe akin to a large country busting attack and won't do anything to him.
FCP himself is dozens of times faster than light. He can react to Yoeui's expansion, which can cross the distance between the Moon and Earth in a fraction of a second(At least, before hypersonic projectiles could pierce Han Dawae's back, which clocks the staff in at dozens of times faster than light):
And seemingly if the Yoeui expansion scaling wasn't questionable enough, you're adding the second layer of scaling to someone who reacted to it. And furthermore, just because someone dashed out of the way of an FTL attack, doesn't mean that they can fight at that speed and doesn't mean anyone who can keep up with them are at dozens of times FTL, at all... Hell the scaling to yoeui reaching the moon itself relies on scaling to a supposed hypersonic projectile.
As for her abilities, you'll find that she's easily one of the most versatile characters in fiction. One of her most useful abilities is vector manipulation. She can use to reflect/deflect any stray attacks which come her way. She's used this ability to deflect an attack of FCP. I already posted those scans but ill do so again:
Ok... But how does this work? Why should I assume it can work on Plutonian, who even if we take your large planet busting feat on face value(it wouldn't be for multiple reasons), they still wouldn't have the physical power of Plutonian. Can she double task it on say Ronan and Plutonian?
This is extremely impressive due to the fact that FCP can match Jin Mori's blows, and Jin Mori can make Shockwaves which dwarf Orageuk. As i mentioned earlier, Orageuk is a small star sized planet, making Jin's shockwaves about Large planet+ sized:
I've already gone over the size, but making shockwaves of a size doesn't come close to busting something, Earth Surface busting(as in actually destroying the surface instead of a shockwave) is noticeably less impressive then destroying the moon(something almost 1/100 the size of Earth). So it would still be like a planet busting feat at best.
She also possesses Poison/Transmutation attacks, while allow her to petrify her enemies/stop them utilising weapons to their fullest potential. As such, this requires both Transmutation resistance and Poison resistance, as it falls under both:
I'm sorry, what is happening in the scans? It looks like someone's arm just falls off. But considering that Ronan has high level matter manipulation, he can just fix anyone who's been transmuted on our team. As for poison, that's something you need to prove can work on people as powerful as my team. An elephant can resist human poison, but it doesn't have a special immunity to it, it can resist poison because it's bigger and more powerful, same logic applies here. You have the burden of proof.
Additionally, I think this is a good time to bring up the foundation of Plutonian's powers, the dude is literally made from the energy of higher dimensional beings and kinda shaped into human form, but not at all human
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Irredeemable #33
Can Transmutation or Poison even work fundamentally on a dude like that?
Lastly, she possesses the over powered ability to seal the Powerset of anyone she comes across. Yes, you read that correct. She can completely and utterly leave them powerless, and she simply has to glance at them to accomplish it. A very good example of this is Lee Suu-Jins interaction with priest Big Man(Yes, thats his name). His ability was that over life and death....He could resurrect the dead(regardless of how many years ago they were killed, or the location they were killed at), and he himself possesses an incredible regeneration ability - so great, he can survive being ripped into pieces. As you can see below, he regenerates, raises an army of the dead, and summons the sister of the monkey with the white hair fighting in order to distract her.
And once again I ask if Plutonian is the kind of power she can seal. I mean, physicals are one thing, here you're talking about the literal manifestation of higher energy beings, that's something else entirely.
Han
Next ill start with Han. I place him within the tiers of high herald to low Teambuster, and rightly so - he has the feats to back it up. I won't bother focusing on Han's physical statistics, as I don't think he'll need them for this match(Ill explain later why), however I will of course bring up his speed. Han, like Lee suu jin, is easily faster than your team, as seen when he can perceive the expansion of Yeoui. This should count as a very good reaction speed feat for him for reasons I touched on regarding Yeoui's expansion speed earlier:
Wait, so he just saw it expand? He didn't react or fight or anything? This literally means nothing. Take for instance 616 Thor, a dude who's combat speed is like supersonic, but his perception speed? Easily in the FTL area. Take for instance Thor: God of Thunder #8 where while travelling FTL he can perceive the galaxies they're passing by at MFTL speeds
However, that in no way equals Thor being close to MFTL speeds. Perceiving something, doesn't even equal thinking speed, this scan is basically useless even ignoring problems with the scaling, making Han slow.
The real reason as to why I chose Han is due to his manipulation of the 4 fundamental forces of the universe. I won't bring up his uses of electromagnetism because i doubt he'd use them here. Starting with Gravity manipulation, Han has done some pretty crazy things. For one, he changed the gravity of an area to 1000x times. This managed to fell the God Zeus:
First, this is irrelevant because Ronan will just turn gravity off, but let's talk about the scaling you're using here. I understand that anime is more consistent then western Comics, but you're scaling from
Han pushing Zeus to the Ground
Zeus pushing away Youei(which as I've established is inconsistent)
Ditching the author statement/intent in favor of it being too heavy for someone
Finally showing a feat for someone
That's some pretty hefty scaling, I mean 4 different degrees. Say if I did that with Ronan, like in Silver Surfer vol 3 #13, he fights Surfer pretty equally
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First Scan also shows he can create a barrier of Absolute zero around you, he can do the same here
Surfer of course has stomped Beta Ray Bill in Beta Ray Bill: Godhunter #2, with physicals no less, which is weaker then his energy blast fighting for Surfer
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And you know, Bill can shrug off planet busting hits even after taking powerful hits for an entire fight as seen inStormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #4
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So basically I just scaled Ronan to stomping casually planetary level characters with his weaker attribute and it was through less instances then your scaling, and none of these feats are outliers. Just goes to show, scaling isn't always the best.
If you're wondering why Mars was by Earth in the first place, its because Han threw it using his Gravity manipulation. Throwing a planet on its own is already a superb feat, however considering the fact that he managed to do it within a few seconds means its moving at MFTL speeds. This was done by an exhausted, inexperienced Han Dawae by the way. Let alone the current 37 year old version i'm using:
Yeah, that doesn't work when Ronan just turns gravity off, doesn't matter if you can manipulate gravity if it isn't there.
Next, Ill focus on Han Dawae's energy projection utilising strong force. Through channeling his power through his pet(Which is the blue 'dog' you can see in the scans below) he managed to create a Moon - Small planet sized energy attack easily comparable in size to the Earth. I realise that summons stronger than Iron man aren't allowed, however, Han Dawae should easily be able to replicate such a feat on his own:
Cool, Plutonian ignores and since as of now Han has no real speed feats, chops his head off before he can do it, especially since it looked like the dog needed to charge.
While i'm not completely sure wether the blast was actually Sun level(Except that statement, there's no evidence pointing towards or against it
There's some big evidence pointing to it not being sun level, the most damage it did to Earth was push the water away, and it's not like it was a super concentrated attack either. It was just kinda compared to the sun, personally I would think that means the light that came out of the attack.
it would still be several times above planetary regardless due to the size of the attack
How? It's like, not even the size of earth in those scans.
As one would imagine, this requires sub atomic feats to resist. That brings me to the end of this part of my post. Let me clarify my actual strategy for you know.
Not really, you need to prove that Han can do this on someone as strong as powerful as Plutonian or someone like Plutonian who isn't really even normal. You are claiming that Han can just make Plutonian disappear with a scan of doing that to a wall, you need better evidence.
Strategy
This ability allows her to essentially control all the laws of physics within an area:
This seemed like reality warping to me so I asked ET and apparently we're debating and leaving it up to the voters. Controlling the laws of physics is literally controlling how the universe works and bending it to your will. If you can control the laws of physics, you can break them, and if that's not reality warping, I don't know what is.
As you can see above, her ability can not only covers the AOE of a small star(That planet in those scans are Orageuk by the way), it can also control the amount of energy needed to Oneshot it(The explosion in those scans in which she uses her ability to mitigate). This shows a phenomenal amount of control with her abilities. Most of your teams attacks rely on Energy attacks(or, they at least use them), so unless they are above star level, they are pretty much useless.
Yeah, but what happens when Plutonian cuts her head off or say, Ronan covers her in absolute zero, or matter manips her head into a bomb. Can she still control physics then?
However, my aim with Lee Suu Jin is more than just stopping energy attacks. She can also cancel out certain abilities using the Sovereinighty. Take for instance, where she negates Ohkwangs ability to control the 4 fundamental forces of the universe(Gravity, weak force, strong force and electromagnetism). This is important, as Plutonian's ability to alter quantum mechanics is an almost similar ability, meaning she should have no difficulty negating his powers. Magneto and Ronan both utilise similar powers as well, so they'd be getting countered too:
Not really, Plutonians powers come from a higher dimension, I don't think they would be sealed by controlling this dimension. Ronan's comes from his hammer. Magneto is really the only one I could see working.
So Lee suu jin will activate the Sovereignty during prep, and once the battle begins Lee Suu Jin will instantly negate your powers.
Why not Han's as well?
This brings me onto your claim of Ronan somehow being able to negate gravity. Now, keep in mind that his abilities will be shut off(again, more on that in the next section), however even if his abilities weren't handicapped, he would still be crushed by the gravity.
Ronan's gonna actually turn gravity off during prep not during the battle, so him being crushed by gravity wouldn't work. As for this
Why? Well It should be quite obvious that the gravity Ronan negated on that planet isn't anywhere Close to what Han's gravity like, which can fell Planet pushing foes. That's a classic case of No Limits Fallacy my friend, so you'll need to Present scans of Ronan cancelling out gravity as powerful as Han's, or he can't.
Here's the problem, you're basically assuming Ronan and Han are doing the same thing when they aren't. Han is deciding how much gravity there is, like a dimmer on a light, Ronan is deciding if there is gravity, like a light switch. It doesn't matter how bright Han makes the light, if Ronan turns it off, it's off. Ronan doesn't deal with this scale(he can), but in this instance he's just shutting it off, either gravity is on or off, it doesn't matter how powerful said gravity is.
Once the battle starts, its important to note that Lee and Han are faster than your team to the point where it isn't funny. I already demonstrated this in several sections. Hence, as soon as the battle starts, two things will happen:
They're faster based off
Flawed Scaling
Han's is literally a perception feat
So Plutonian's ability to manipulate quantum machinics etc will be gone. This is definately a plausible idea, as Plutonian isn't a stranger to having his abilities removes:
This is before Plutonian knew what he was, he had literally tricked himself into thinking he was a brick and as such put limits on himself that he removed when he knew his true nature. Just because it removed his physicality doesn't mean he can't snap blow you up like he did to the mountain. It's not like Plutonian is powered by the fundamental forces that it was said to nullify either.
It was said to be one in the universe and only worked for one night, it's obviously pretty damn special.
This ability would also nullify Magneto's abilities and Ronan's gravity manipulation - not that that was a threat anyway. Next:
Firstly, this whole ability is hard countered by the reality warping relevation, but even if it wasn't, Ronan just sticks Suu Jin in absolute Zero while she does it, powers come back, simple fix. We even have basic knowledge so my team would know this is coming, maybe Plutonian flies up into space to wait for her to activate it before bullrushing her from space, or Magneto goes far away and sends metal flying from a distance. Maybe they'll get creative and hide Ronan behind some admantium sheets to freeze her or something. Plenty and Plenty of options
As for your conclusion, I mainly want to focus on this point about speed
his best feats are all FTL but they're incomparable to Yeoui's expansion, and Lee and Han both dwarf that when it comes to speed
This is just blatantly wrong. Lee fought someone who reacted to a smaller Yeoui(already questioned how fast that really is), and it's not like reacting to something from a distance requires you to be as fast as what you're reacting to. Batman has reacted to Sniper bullets, is he mach 3 now? Much less someone who just fought Batman? Much less dwarf that speed?? Or Han, he literally just saw it expand. I guess Ronan now dwarfs both your characters in speed because he could perceive Manhunters travelling from one solar system to another in a matter of 30 minutes at most
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Annihilation Conquest #5
So Ronan blitzes and freezes both of your characters now by your own logic.
Conclusion
I honestly see no reason why Plutonian doesn't just blitz and take both of my opponents heads off at the start of the match. Speed for my opponents has been reaching for one and completely non-existent for the other. Furthermore, both Ronan and Magneto both share the capability to easily incapacitate either member of the opposing team. Since we have basic knowledge, we know that powers can be turned off, so Magneto can just go far away and launch adamantium at them or as soon as the battle starts Plutonian can snap and blow up Soo-Jin's brain(before you say that's out of character, the dude literally lobotomized his side kick). Quite simply, my team has what it takes to win
I'll start with the distance, which is the one with more problems and easier to debunk. Firstly, you compare the size of the planet to the size of the staff extended with the moon, however when Jin clones himself a ton of times and each clone extends the staff, we can see the Youei are all different lengths
Therein lies problem #1. You cannot use the inconsistencies between the Clones of Yoeui to scale, relate or have anything to do with the Original Yeoui. Why? Well its because they're all vastly different from the Original due to being cloned. Jin Moris cloning technique doesn't make perfect copies, they create several weaker versions(which directly affect him when it comes to issues like Stamina), and we're shown how vastly different there are. Take for instance, how the FCP managed to break the Yoeui clones with casual attacks, however - like i demonstrated before - FCP using his Warhammer(The instance where he reacts to Youei) doesn't even remotely scratch Yoeui. Another good example is when a clone of Jin(Mori Hui, emphasis on the Hui part otherwise you will get confused due to similar names) uses Yoeui, the amount of energy needed to wield it tears all his limbs off, and later, causes him to disintegrate fully because the amount of power necessary to wield Yoeui is immense. This is extremely important to note , as before, Mori Hui was easily capable of using his own Yoeui; So it was the original Yoeui which was too much for him, which again, emphasises the sheer difference between the clones and originals:
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Do note that throughout my post I scale and only scale with the Original Yoeui. The feat in which it traverses between the Moon and Earth in a fraction of a second, the one which i scaled to the size of Orageuk etc etc are all the same Yoeui. So your point has no real ground to stand on.
This is especially true because when Jin makes all of these thicker(like he would have to to take up the amount of space it did on the moon), it is seemingly a lot bigger in comparison to the planet then the scan you posted earlier was
Wait what?. In the first scan(When Jin initially grew out the staff) he merely told it to grow(The same way he grow from the Moon and Earth). He never told the staff to grow thicker when he was on the moon, thats something he exclusively did on Orageuk. In the first scan he merely tells it to grow. In the next he tells it to grow thicker. Doesn't really take anything away from the size of the planet, or make it inconsistant.
Furthermore, we don't have a frame of reference to Orageuk like the distance of the Earth and the Moon that is a very scientific, not very well known distance, so we're basing it off size compared to the planet. However, if we take the moon scan and do the same thing, it's clear that the writer/artists did not at all leave room for all the planets in the solar system or a small star sized object
If we see the staff fully expanded compared to the Earth, it doesn't look like you could fit an object several hundred times the size of the earth in that distance, at all, the staff honestly looks pretty comparable in size to the earth at best. And before you say I'm being overly nitpicky or taking frame of reference over scientific fact, I'm judging the staff in comparison to the Earth's size to determine it's size the exact same way you're judging the "star sized" planet off Youei.
No, this is just how Park draws his Manwha. You must remember this isn't Comics or Manga. The Mangaka has to fit everything within one incredibly thin strip of comic, hence, some scenes are cut off like that, depicting objects looks smaller than they really are. Of course this is sustained throughout the series as a whole, yet we have proof of the author doing this several times. Take for instance, when Jupiter is thrown into Earth, in the first scan it appears to be no larger than a decent sized planetoid due to lack of space on the panel, however, when the author gets more space to fully draw out the scene we receive Jupiter in its full size:
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Plus, one must always consider that when we see Han Fighting the Unknown(a Giant, Mars sized entity), there's no moon in the scans(Where , if we followed your assumption of the moon and earth only being a short distance apart, the Moon would obviously be.) In addition, when we see Jupiter propelled away from Earth, there's no Moon to be seen in these scans: Plus So we have 3 scans of the Moon being in its actual place, 3 scans of the Author putting things closer together to fit things within a panel, and real life logic about the moons placement. Which one sounds more plausable to you?
Still no moon where you're implying it would be.
So we have 3 scans of the Moon being in its actual place, 3 scans of the Author putting things closer together to fit things within a panel, and real life logic about the moons placement. Which one sounds more plausable to you?
Now considering that the Staff made a country sized hole in the moon, what does this mean? Well it means one of too things. Either
Jins staff didn't make a country sized whole in the moon then IIRC, it's just another example of things looking smaller due to lack of panel space.
The staff expands to different lengths/isn't consistent and isn't fair to scale off of
Oh, it is. Very.
In the instance you posted that the dude reacted to, it was barely wider then Jin instead of the country sized it was when it performed it's FTL feat. Would that make a difference? It certainly would seem to imo and at absolute best the feat is pretty questionable and I wouldn't take it too seriously. Furthermore when all the clones expanded their youei(remember same time, same jin, same mindset, etc), they were all different sizes, which would obviously mean different speeds.
No, All the Jins there are substantially weaker than the original, I've gone over this. The Speeds of the Other Yoeui are irrelevant as all scaling has only been done to and for the original Yoeui, hence, you don't really have a point here. The clone Yoeui's are weaker, lighter, and simply don't have enough energy as the original. There Speed's being different shouldn't come as a surprise.
2) Lee Suu-Jin
I really think you should showcase physicals more,
Ill do this below.
FCP himself is dozens of times faster than light. He can react to Yoeui's expansion, which can cross the distance between the Moon and Earth in a fraction of a second(At least, before hypersonic projectiles could pierce Han Dawae's back, which clocks the staff in at dozens of times faster than light):
And seemingly if the Yoeui expansion scaling wasn't questionable enough, you're adding the second layer of scaling to someone who reacted to it. And furthermore, just because someone dashed out of the way of an FTL attack, doesn't mean that they can fight at that speed and doesn't mean anyone who can keep up with them are at dozens of times FTL, at all... Hell the scaling to yoeui reaching the moon itself relies on scaling to a supposed hypersonic projectile.
Did you actually look at the scans Kev? If you did you'd realise that FCP saw the Yeoui expanding towards them, before slamming his hammer in order to break it into two....this requires Reaction speed(As obviously, he had to react to it) and combat speed(He threw an attack before Yeoui could finish extending, and thats several times FTL). So yes, it scales to Lee Suu Jins combat speeds. Just so you wont miss it, ill post them again:
Throws an attack before extension can finish, hence said attack was thrown within Nanoseconds.
Lee Suu jin has more speed feats, but they still rely on scaling(Luckily, Han Doesn't). This should still suffice as you haven't really debunked anything, yet if you'd still like to see them, let me know.
Ok... But how does this work? Why should I assume it can work on Plutonian, who even if we take your large planet busting feat on face value(it wouldn't be for multiple reasons), they still wouldn't have the physical power of Plutonian. Can she double task it on say Ronan and Plutonian?
Why wouldn't it work on Plutonian? This isn't me lowballing him, but he has zero impressive striking feats. Like, not one. His best feats are moving some islands, and even those required bullrushes IIRC - nothing close to any of the contestants present here. He has stopped the Moon via inertia control, although that isn't really striking based; Plus Plutonians an idiot. He's never once used any of those abilities in combat. Even intangibility wasn't used when he was getting beaten up Betty. I doubt he'd use them here, and even if he did, feats like that are so below what my teams capable of thats it's useless. The rest of Plutonian's feats are Lifting, which would be applicable in grappling, yes, but Lee Suu jin never really goes for that, She seals her opponents powers, or uses Transmutation or poison. Three things Plutonian doesn't have a counter for. Same with Han. He instantly goes for Weak force annihilation:
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Read scans in order of 6,3,5,4, 2 then 1. Sorry about that.
Keep in mind that this was Han attacking an old teammate. They weren't the best of friends or anything, however they were mutual frieds to Jin, and both fought on the same side. Yet the Moment Park Ill Pyo sides with Mujin Park and got in Han's way, he instantly tries to take his head off.
Plus I never called the Shock waves Large planet busting, I called them Large planet sized. There's a difference.
This is extremely impressive due to the fact that FCP can match Jin Mori's blows, and Jin Mori can make Shockwaves which dwarf Orageuk. As i mentioned earlier, Orageuk is a small star sized planet, making Jin's shockwaves about Large planet+ sized:
I've already gone over the size, but making shockwaves of a size doesn't come close to busting something, Earth Surface busting(as in actually destroying the surface instead of a shockwave) is noticeably less impressive then destroying the moon(something almost 1/100 the size of Earth). So it would still be like a planet busting feat at best.
Hence, Why i never called Jin's shockwaves Large planet busting, I called them large planet level - which refers to the AOE of affect attacks can carry etc. There's a difference.
I'm sorry, what is happening in the scans? It looks like someone's arm just falls off.
But considering that Ronan has high level matter manipulation, he can just fix anyone who's been transmuted on our team.
And Ronan can also restore life to those who have been Killed via transmutation as well, right?
As for poison, that's something you need to prove can work on people as powerful as my team. An elephant can resist human poison, but it doesn't have a special immunity to it, it can resist poison because it's bigger and more powerful, same logic applies here. You have the burden of proof.
No, Elephants can survive poison which is deadly to humans due to the poor amount of poison humans can stomach.But this obviously doesn't hold true for all creatures; Humans are 'bigger and more powerful' than Spiders, snakes and Scorpions yet thousands of people fall victim to there Poison every year. Did the increase mass and strength save those people then? Even ignoring this erroneous reasoning , in what way would such a thing apply to Plutonian? He doesn't possesses incredible Strength/Durability like, say , Hulk or Mangog for instance. He manipulates Quantum mechanics/reality to suit his needs, so in what way does this supply him with any type of Poison resistance? Plus, it should be fairly obvious that the Poison isn't as weak as actual Poison. Take for instance where she uses it to poison King Uma.....Same King Uma who has cartoon like regeneration, and can instantly revive herself after getting her life force sucked out. Not only that, her Poison is so strong that the SCP(Second-crown-prince, the brother of FCP who i showcased earlier) was forced to have his arm amputated after being merely scratched by here. Even ignoring the fact that TCP is a very powerful foe(Which, again, I don't think is a 'viable' counter to something like Poison), He's lived for thousands of years, and managed to regrow his arm instantly after it was amputated; Yet he has to cut off his arm quickly before death ensued when he came face to face with Lee Suu Jin:
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Scan 2,1: Lee Suu jin merely attacks TCP, and he's forced to remove his arm.
Scans 3,4 and 5: Showscases King Uma's healing factor, last scan shows Posion effecting her. Keep in mind, there was no direct contact between the 2, so just going close to Lee Suu Jin is a death sentence.
So wether Burden of proof fell on me or not(Which I personally don't think think it did. The whole 'Muscle your way through it' argument never really sat well with me, and it lacks any real substance), I've certainly provided it, so now its your turn to present a viable counter to it. Unfortunately, Plutonian just...doesn't. Although I'll admit its been a minute since I last read the series, the fact that you had to resort to the 'He'll muscle his way out of it cause he's strong!!' argument tells me my memory served me correctly. Strike #1.
Additionally, I think this is a good time to bring up the foundation of Plutonian's powers, the dude is literally made from the energy of higher dimensional beings and kinda shaped into human form, but not at all human
Can Transmutation or Poison even work fundamentally on a dude like that?
Not once has this factor saved him from anything of relevance , so why do you expect it to save him now? Strike #2.
And once again I ask if Plutonian is the kind of power she can seal. I mean, physicals are one thing, here you're talking about the literal manifestation of higher energy beings, that's something else entirely.
Well if we were to ignore the literal, on panel proof of a magic candle managing to seal his powers(Which pretty much dismisses any and all arguments you can bring up of Plutonian resisting it), and the fact that a bullet made of the same candle wax would kill him, Lee Suu jin can seal the ability of the Gods of war; The Gods of war(First Crown Prince, Second Crown Prince And Third Crown Prince) . The only reason in which they were able to resist it was due to the fact that they already came prepared to deal with Lee Suu Jin(You see, Lee Suu Jin pretended to serve the gods, and used her abilities to remove the seal placed on Human beings which didn't allow them to harm the gods. Its a pretty complicated backstory, but just know that the FCP and Co knew exactly how to counter Lee Suu Jins abilities):
These gods are merely souls which were transmuted into empty shells, giving them incredible Strength, Durability and speed etc. It also allows them to manipulate one aspect of there choosing(One controls Earth, Another Magma/geothermal energy, the other ice). Yet Lee Suu jin could seal there powers casually, by there own concessions, without the use of special equipment tailored to stop her abilities. Not that this effects Plutonian in any way, as he hasn't shown anything to suggest he can resist it. Once again the candle incident being brought up as literal proof of him being susceptible to such attacks.
Strike #3. You haven't presented a viable counter to literally any one of Lee Suu Jins abilities. You're out. Or in this case, Plutonian dies miserably. Lets do Han next...
3) Han
Wait, so he just saw it expand? He didn't react or fight or anything? This literally means nothing. Take for instance 616 Thor, a dude who's combat speed is like supersonic, but his perception speed? Easily in the FTL area. Take for instance Thor: God of Thunder #8 where while travelling FTL he can perceive the galaxies they're passing by at MFTL speeds
However, that in no way equals Thor being close to MFTL speeds. Perceiving something, doesn't even equal thinking speed, this scan is basically useless even ignoring problems with the scaling, making Han slow.
What? Han noted Yeoui's extension(which has been justified as several dozens of time FTL by now), before noting who it was using the staff while simultaneously trying to push jupiter BEFORE Yoeui could reach the atmosphere(Which, again, regarding Yoeui speed would be in a fraction of a Nanosecond). In what way is that similar to watching things pass by you as you travel at high speeds? Perceiving things as you travel by them isn't a reaction feat, however perceiving something travelling around you at MFTL is. For example, say Flash was fighting zoom, and he ran past Superman in an attempt to signal him that he needed assistance, does that mean it isn't a reaction feat for Superman? Any normal person wouldn't have been able to register the flash. Same thing here. However, I won't really push this because I don't have to. Han possesses several superior feats. Lets start with the time in which Han alters the gravity of mars, sending it hurtling towards earth at MFTL speeds. Han realises he failed to control Mars precisely enough, and reacts to it, before managing to slow it down before it crashed into earth. This is an indisputable MFTL feat, as Mars is 3 light minutes away from earth. Essentially, the planet would be moving at speeds ranging in the hundreds of times FTL, hence Han would have to react/use his powers within several Picoseconds:
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Next, Han could react to Park ill pyo's attack. Why is this impressive? Well as a teen, Park ill Pyo was able to casually expand his flames to a planetary distance(comparable to the Planets around him) in around a second or less, making them easily FTL. There's two important prices of context when looking at this feat, the first is A) Park Ill pyo had been using this technique for litteral months straight,without break, meaning he was heavily weakened at the time of accomplishing it and B) What Han dodged was a concentrated attack, unlike the AOE Park Ill pyo released when in space. That should obviously cause it to be way faster then the one he used before:
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Lastly, in what I think is Hans best feat, he manages to react to an attack from Stage 3 666:Satan. Base 666: Satan was capable of tagging Jin in Speed mode, Pinning him down to the ground several times, fighting on par with him etc, and that, again, was Base 666: Satan. This version had been amped due to being near to the sun for a while, and was in a superior form:
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666: Satan possesses a plethora of speed feats(Like Tagging Jin whe his stats were increased by 250,000 times etc), however for now ill just showcased Satan taggin Jin in speed Mode, same Jin who managed to cross a solar system and parry an attack(Hence reaction speeds, and yes this is a shameless link stolen from Vulcan, so thanks to him) yet Satan blitzed him/pinned him down:
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First, this is irrelevant because Ronan will just turn gravity off,
Ill address this below.
but let's talk about the scaling you're using here. I understand that anime is more consistent then western Comics, but you're scaling from
Han pushing Zeus to the Ground
Zeus pushing away Youei(which as I've established is inconsistent)
Ditching the author statement/intent in favor of it being too heavy for someone
Finally showing a feat for someone
That's some pretty hefty scaling, I mean 4 different degrees.
What? i've dealt with the second point in regards to Yoeui's 'inconsistency', but what are you going on about with the rest? Han crushed Zues, who can push Yoeui. Thats it. There was never any author intent in those scans? If you're referring to Uriel statement of it being too heavy, then that stops there. Why? Because if you use common sense you would literally know that Zues and Uriel are two different people, with two different powers. Zues has better feats then Uriel, and she relies on scaling more. Arguing because one character can't lift Yoeui, no one can is.....just silly.
If the scaling to Uriel really possesses that much of a problem, then here's the time in which Jin sets down Yoeui and it cracks the planet from its core. Keep in mind this planet is huge; Hundreds of millions of giants could live on 1 floor, and there's 9997. However I've had enough about dealing with planet sizes today, so fact of the matter is, Yoeui has the weight of a planet:
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In fact, the whole thing with Jins Staff is that originally is was used to measure things. They way he got hold of it was from a Bet if Jin could lift it. Yoeui being heavy is literally one of the pinnacle as to why its useful in combat(An ordinary staff wouldn't damage your opponents much, but swinging around the weight on a planet would):
The reason as to why I Scaled with Uriel is because it pinpoint exactly how heavy the staff is(As by, default we know its superior to mars in weight) but I digress. If you'd rather use speculation to determine how heavy Yoeui is, instead of scaling to Uriel, then thats fine by me. Either one proves my point in regards to Zues strength. So Han crushed Zues, who can push a Planet weighted object. Simple.
Say if I did that with Ronan, like in Silver Surfer vol 3 #13, he fights Surfer pretty equally
Surfer of course has stomped Beta Ray Bill in Beta Ray Bill: Godhunter #2, with physicals no less, which is weaker then his energy blast fighting for Surfer
And you know, Bill can shrug off planet busting hits even after taking powerful hits for an entire fight as seen inStormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #4
So basically I just scaled Ronan to stomping casually planetary level characters with his weaker attribute and it was through less instances then your scaling, and none of these feats are outliers. Just goes to show, scaling isn't always the best.
Wait, what? Im honestly baffled as to how you ended up with such a conclusion. Not only is this a textbook example of Association fallacy('Character A cannot be scale because its inconsistent, So Character B cannot be scaled as well'), it doesn't really matter, as you said it before; Comics aren't consistent like Manga/Manwha are. Ronan can't be scaled to the likes or Surfer because he has too many inconsistencies regarding his power, However you can scale someone like, say, Thanos because he's shown to be above surfer pretty consistently. Its pretty clear why this Logic is flawed.
Cool, Plutonian ignores and since as of now Han has no real speed feats, chops his head off before he can do it, especially since it looked like the dog needed to charge.
There way no charge up in those Scans. The Unknown(A huge Planet sized guy) charged up an attack which shot towards Han and his pet, which reacted within a short time frame. This attack almost instantly reached the earth, meaning Han fired this up within a quick timeframe:
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Plutonian doesn't have any impressive energy durability feats, so this in another way to Oneshot.
There's some big evidence pointing to it not being sun level, the most damage it did to Earth was push the water away, and it's not like it was a super concentrated attack either. It was just kinda compared to the sun, personally I would think that means the light that came out of the attack.
It was concentrated(Keep in mind Han fought on earth, and had to control his powers as precisely as possible. Mars is a good example of this; he tried his utmost best in order to make sure he could slam the planet into the gods effectively; He miscalculated, but of course there's no People here so that doesn't really matter). The Sun thing was most likely in reference to the Strong force(Which is what's used in fusion within the Sun), so although it doesn't make the attack directly star level, it servers as a indicator as to just how powerful the attack was, for a character to mistake it for the sun. Hence, I won't argue it as Sun level because of a baseless statement. I just included it to show how powerful his attack was, that someone mistook is for the Sun(For instance, how some characters have said 'He's so fast he looks invisble', it doesn't mean they're actually invisible, it just goes to demonstrate the amount of speed the characters possesses. Same thing here.
it would still be several times above planetary regardless due to the size of the attack
How? It's like, not even the size of earth in those scans.
Because that was a strong force attack the size of a golf ball, which is nothing compared to the size of the attack Han used against Zues. That one would be several times stronger, hence a Multi-planetary attack. However even this speculation isn't necessary, as an ordinary attack would Oneshot Plutonian as well.
Not really, you need to prove that Han can do this on someone as strong as powerful as Plutonian or someone like Plutonian who isn't really even normal. You are claiming that Han can just make Plutonian disappear with a scan of doing that to a wall, you need better evidence.
No, You have to provide any sort of evidence as to why Plutonian can survive. This whole 'He's too strong' or 'He's not normal' argument is irrelevant given that Plutonian has been hurt by pretty much anything imaginable throughout the series. This honestly just proves you have no real argument against any of his hax, except 'It Won't work cause Plutonian is a manifestation of something something, and he's very special'. News flash. Han controls the 4 fundamental forces of the literal universe. Lee Suu Jin can control the laws of physics within an area. They themselves aren't normal. Get over it.
4) Han and Lee Suu Jins striking?
As requested earlier, you asked to See Han and Lee Suu Jins striking power in its full entirety. The latter possesses a feat of matching someone who created bigger shockwaves on Orageuk(So i won't really bother showing them, I feel the ones I've already shown have sufficed), However, Han does have way better feats in this regard. You see, When Han absorbed his powers from Ohkwang, he only got Half of it - Han got the abilities, while Mira got his physical power. As you could imagine this would leave Han at a disadvantage, so he came up with the smart Idea of interluding his hits with his powers. The result is that he could hit with his gravity like strength:
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This is important as Han has really impressive feats using his powers. Earlier I showcased him throwing Mars at MFTl speeds(which would easily has enough KE to shatter multiple planets based off pure common sense), however, one of Han best feats comes straight after this encounter. 666: Satan throws Jupiter into Earth, so Han has to stop Jupiter from crashing into the earth while Simultaneously Deflecting the fragments of Mars, before pushing Jupiter back into its real orbit. Han only had help pushing Jupiter back, but he was the one who initially stopped it.(Plus he still contributed to pushing Jupiter at FTL speeds anyway):
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Jupiter moving at such speeds in this case easily translates to Hans striking, in which case he pretty much brutalise Plutonian. Betty may hit slightly harder, but keep in mind her Hits reduced Plutonian to a bloody mess, Hans hits - which he will be spamming due to the speed gap and fighting style(See scan 5 in the images above the ones i just posted) would honestly severely hurt plutonian, if not reduce him to a paste. But again, Han's hax means this opportunity of him engaging in H2H isn't plausible.
One last thing I'd luck to touch on is your strategy of Plutonian. You seem to think he can pierce Han, but I honestly doubt he could. Han managed to deflect this off of Jin by bending space:
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If he can do it for Jin, he can do it for himself and he can do it for Lee Suu jin. In which case, brings me to ask just what other piercing feats Adamantium has? Piercing Thanos is nice, but there's still Split durability(Which its probably mostly exaggerated on in comics, let alone Manga etc), So I don't see as to why Piercing Thanos and Mangog is taken as such an impressive thing. I haven't been scaling across Split durability, but I can get into it if you'd like.
5) Strategy.
This seemed like reality warping to me so I asked ET and apparently we're debating and leaving it up to the voters. Controlling the laws of physics is literally controlling how the universe works and bending it to your will. If you can control the laws of physics, you can break them, and if that's not reality warping, I don't know what is.
Thats just it, she could only control the laws of physics, not break them. Otherwise she would have been able to destroy the energy explosion at Oraguek(That's one of the main laws of physics;The principle of conservation of Energy; Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only dissipated or transformed from one medium to another) which, in that case, I would agree its reality warping. However, Lee Suu jin wasn't capable of doing that. She only managed to Pre-long the explosion of Orageuk, hence it isn't and wasn't reality warping.
Regardless, the main reason as to why this ability was in the strategy was because I would use it to negate Plutonian's powers, however Lee Suu Jin can do that without the Sovereignty. So Moot Point.
Lastly, Aren't Plutonian's powers themselves literal Reality manipulation? I remember you once saying that he as allowed because Plutonian doesn't use them to the full extent, however, thats pretty much the same thing with Lee Suu Jin(In the fact that she's used them for 2 things most herald/high tiers can do). They're also both tanked at 6 points on the pyp grid....Food for thought.
Yeah, but what happens when Plutonian cuts her head off or say, Ronan covers her in absolute zero, or matter manips her head into a bomb. Can she still control physics then?
This implies that Plutonian and Co can see, react or perceive Lee Suu Jin before you get your abilities negated. Plus Ice doesn't effect Lee Suu jin in the slightest, as seen when she no sells SCP attacks:
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Not really, Plutonians powers come from a higher dimension, I don't think they would be sealed by controlling this dimension. Ronan's comes from his hammer. Magneto is really the only one I could see working.
So first Plutonian being a manifestation of literal energy would stop him from having his powers sealed, and now its because he gets them from another dimension?Unfortunately for you KeV, thats literally where half the main cast in GoH receive there powers from - Gods and Demons which reside in another dimensions. This bond is called a Charyeouk. When Lee Suu jin sealed that guy who controlled life and death, that was a Charyeouk. Lee Suu Jin also sealed the powers of Agent R, T, O and Y who all Borrow powers through the use of a Charyoeuk - a contract between a God/Demon and a Human which allows them to use there power). However the best example i can bring up is this one below:
As you can see above, Gwum gi recives his power from a god lending it to him. So now you literally have no reason to deny Lee Suu Jin being able to seal your abilities, as by your own admission, the one thing she needed to do in order to seal them(Which is cut off abilities from another dimension) has been done casually. Not that you really had a point anyway, the candle incidence insured that.
Why not Han's as well?
When Lee used this ability on Ohkwang, She only offset his, and it still allowed for Mujin Park(who's only real ability is gravity manipulation) to fight. However, Lee just have to make sure Han isn't within the sphere, and he'll be fine in any case.
Power sealing makes this factor unnecessary though.
Why? Well It should be quite obvious that the gravity Ronan negated on that planet isn't anywhere Close to what Han's gravity like, which can fell Planet pushing foes. That's a classic case of No Limits Fallacy my friend, so you'll need to Present scans of Ronan cancelling out gravity as powerful as Han's, or he can't.
Here's the problem, you're basically assuming Ronan and Han are doing the same thing when they aren't. Han is deciding how much gravity there is, like a dimmer on a light, Ronan is deciding if there is gravity, like a light switch. It doesn't matter how bright Han makes the light, if Ronan turns it off, it's off. Ronan doesn't deal with this scale(he can), but in this instance he's just shutting it off, either gravity is on or off, it doesn't matter how powerful said gravity is.
So you're really suggesting Ronan can counter planets worths of gravity, because he sent Nebula to Orbit? How do you not see the impaired logic behind this reasoning? As for you're analogy, it too is flawed; a light switch is something which has a definitive on and off(No matter how far you dim a lightbulb, it'll always technically be on unless you actually switch it off).What i mean by this is that there'll constantly be a source of light, even if its barely visible. Gravity doesn't - if you continue to decrease it, there will eventually be none present - which is exactly what Ronan did in this situation.
Han manipulates the 4 fundamental forces of the universe, and as such, Manipulates Gravity as if it were his toy. So in order to suggest Ronan can go head to head with him, you'll have to post scans of Ronan doing anything comparable to Han. Ill save you some time ; there aren't any.
This is before Plutonian knew what he was, he had literally tricked himself into thinking he was a brick and as such put limits on himself that he removed when he knew his true nature. Just because it removed his physicality doesn't mean he can't snap blow you up like he did to the mountain. It's not like Plutonian is powered by the fundamental forces that it was said to nullify either.
It was said to be one in the universe and only worked for one night, it's obviously pretty damn special.
This ability would also nullify Magneto's abilities and Ronan's gravity manipulation - not that that was a threat anyway. Next:
Irrelevant. It still managed to subdue his reality warping, wether he knew about it or not. The only real way you could argue this is if Plutonian had managed to resist getting his powers copied after finding out his true abilities, then you could plead its an entirely different version of Plutonian. Unfortunately for you. He hasn't. Moot point.
Also Irrelevant. Lee Suu Jin is the only person in the series who can seal abilities like that, so I guess she's one in the universe too, right? This doesn't really counter anything; They both do the same thing. Again, Moot point.
Firstly, this whole ability is hard countered by the reality warping relevation, but even if it wasn't, Ronan just sticks Suu Jin in absolute Zero while she does it, powers come back, simple fix. We even have basic knowledge so my team would know this is coming, maybe Plutonian flies up into space to wait for her to activate it before bullrushing her from space
So, your plan is to have Plutonian leave Lee Suu Jins AOE...only to re enter it later? In what way does that make any difference?
, or Magneto goes far away and sends metal flying from a distance. Maybe they'll get creative and hide Ronan behind some admantium sheets to freeze her or something.
Really. You're going to hide from someone who can control the laws of physics within an area, which allowed her to stop an energy explosion(Which covered every inch of the planet, ergo granting here the ability to manipulate things that aren't within her sights)?
absolute Zero while she does it
Lee Suu jin doesn't even have to be actively sealing abilities in order to keep them sealed. She can just seal them and be done with it:
This is just blatantly wrong. Lee fought someone who reacted to a smaller Yeoui(already questioned how fast that really is)
Same Yoeui, same speed.
, and it's not like reacting to something from a distance requires you to be as fast as what you're reacting to. Batman has reacted to Sniper bullets, is he mach 3 now? Much less someone who just fought Batman? Much less dwarf that speed??
If the object is Dozens of times Faster than light, then yes, it would. It requires FCP to react within a fraction of a Nanosecond/Several Picosecond. Of course it isn't as impressive as reacting an attack point blank, but its still a reaction/combat feat(Especially as he could strike it before its expansion moved any real distance past him).
By this very same logic, Plutonian reacted to laser when it had to cross into a satellite, so its not legitimate because the laser had to cross a huge distance first? No, because that wouldn't make sense. Plutonian reacted to the laser and destroyed the satellite before the laser could reach it, the same way FCP reacted to Yoeui and swung at it before it could complete its extension. Both are FTL feats, however FCP is several times faster.
In Summary
All debunks made against Yoeui are out of context/scaling to irrelevant Yoeui's of clones, and all scaling has been done to the original.
The only plead made against Lee Suu Jins and Plutonian's hax is that he's 'special', so it gives his resistance to it, which doesn't make sense.
No counter has been given to weak force or strong force. Gravity also Oneshots Ronan.
Lee Suu Jins power sealing will work on Plutonian.
My team posses the Speed advantage. Plutonian also lacks any real way of hurting Han and Lee Suu Jin due to Han being able to bend space via gravity manipulation.
Lee suu Jins Sovereignty is completely within the rules, and even if it wasn't she doesn't need it to win this.
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