Lol, me saying that Usagi's transformation into Super Sailor Moon would kill your team was a tongue-in-cheek brag. Reading through your post, you took it literally which is probably a fault on my end. (I stated it a few times but that's just to stress the power difference). She starts the battle in SSM form, as that's the version of her I'm using.
I am, however, using the statement of her simple transformation releasing that level of energy as the basis for her casual attacks annihilating your team.
A tongue-in-cheek brag that you used multiple times in two of your posts. So much so that you failed to provide practically any showings of Sailor Moon's attacks being used against actual opponents. All you did was rely on insane scaling to show her planet-busting rather than show her in a real fight. A combined shield from all 3 of my characters would be more than enough to defend against her attacks.
And IIRC, Usagi never just "starts" in her Sailor Moon forms, she needs to transform first.
This is a gargantuan reach. You completely skipped over the feat itself and rebutted with an argument from incredulity. It's an objective fact that supernovas are identified by their luminosity, and a character with a telescope who was looking into the sky mistook the Silver Crystal's explosion for a supernova because the light it gave off.
For your position to hold any weight, you would have to make the argument that light itself doesn't work in the Sailor Moon verse the way it does in... any fictional universe or in real life.
Good luck with that.
About as much of a gargantuan reach as equating real-world science to a fictional universe that has awful physics, magic, and a pretty distinct lack of science. Many characters in Sailor Moon use lightning, light or laser-based attacks, and yet they don't move at those speeds. If the science and physics were accurate, they would. So why should it be any different to say that the supernova had so much destructive energy based solely on its luminosity?
I was only trying to provide a detailed and contextualized write-up of my character's power, so unfamiliar people would have a better understanding of what she could do. My opener was also copy-pasted from another tourney and only featured showings from weaker versions of Sailor Moon. So I posted some new feats and expanded on the impressiveness of ones I already had. So you'll have to excuse me for being thorough.
Then you should have used feats of your character fighting against other characters rather than relying on one planet-busting feat that isn't even clear cut because she had help.
That's not PIS. They sent more energy into Planet Nemesis than what it could absorb and exploded it. Which is also impressive considering Nemesis ate it's own solar system and passively drained the energy of the other Senshi, preventing them from transforming (these are planet-star level characters).
Even if it wasn't PIS, you provided no other feats of a similar caliber to suggest that this isn't an outlier or something she does on the regular.
Nemesis' negative energy also previously cancelled out/negated the energy of the base Silver Crystal, preventing Usagi from transforming as well. (Before you say it, when Usagi one-shot Nemsis with Chibi Moon she tapped into the Crystal's full power and had better control. But as was stated, the Silver Crystal can destroy a star in the hands of even an inexperienced person).
Very well, but this was still very much a one-time thing and I doubt it is replicable. So for all your attempts to build up this one feat, it's pretty useless. Additionally, how often does Sailor Moon even tap into the Crystal's full power? Because you provided no other examples of this to prove she does this consistently.
Lastly, before the feat Sailor Moon had shared a kiss with her soulmate/love and it increased energy and confidence. Something she lacked in prior encounters with Nemesis. Prince Mamoru told Usagi to believe in herself and the Silver Crystal, and stated that he would go as far to give up his life for her in order to increase his power. Then when Usagi saw Chibiuasa, she told her to focus all her strength and energy at the planet.
Is she going to share a kiss before this battle? Because if not, how is she going to come even close to replicating this amount of energy output in our particular battle?
Calling it PIS or an outlier would make absolutely zero sense, because in the context of the story, this is a clear moment of character development and the first actual point in the story where Usagi accesses the full powers and capability of the Silver Crystal. It took the courage of her lover in order to believe in her abilities for her to use those abilities to the fullest extent. Not to mention she far surpasses this level of power anyway with subsequent feats in higher forms, so the word "outlier" would be factually inaccurate for the version I'm using.
It could be considered an outlier in this form only. You barely provided any other feats so there really isn't much to go on, and there are so many holes in this one feat you have built up so much.
Finally, I stated in my opener that she had the help of Chibi Moon, making it a shared feat. (Which doesn't matter considering it's astronomically above planet busting, a level of power that already dwarfs your team). So you should stop acting as if I'm being disingenuous regarding the context of the feat.
There are so many things wrong with this feat that I can't even accept it at base value. Sure, it's above planetary, but she had help from Chibi Moon, she had the courage from her lover, she needed to access the full power of the Silver Crystal, she needed all her focus and concentration, etc. So many things that just aren't replicable in our fight.
When has light in Sailor Moon ever contradicted or defied real word science/physics? Simply because it's a fictional universe with supernatural characters doesn't mean we throw away every single metric we can use to quantify feats. What you're arguing is the equivalent of me saying that a character in Sailor Moon surviving in space shouldn't be used to suggest they can survive in space in the real world, because it's a verse that defies physics in other areas. Just because the series has elements of the unreal doesn't mean things inside the verse that exist in, behave like, and have parallels in the real world (such as the void of space or light itself) can't be quantified, unless explicit reasons are given otherwise.
Addressed before, but to really drive the point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtDjtIKAxbE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwpTSEZ4TDk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDCWjhm97xg&t=64s
All these lightning/light attacks and yet none of them move at those speeds... I even did further research on the manga and various RT's and I could not find any proof that these attacks move at light speed. I used the anime as examples because it best demonstrates the speed of the attacks.
Your argument can also be flipped on it's head. Does blood in Marvel work the same way it does in Sailor Moon? Where's the proof that Magneto or Jean can manipulate Usagi's internal organs? She's completely different from anything they've encountered, right? Her universe defies science and physics and can't be equated to other universes, right?
I hope you can see my point... arguments like that won't fly in voting.
That isn't remotely close of a comparison and you know it. There is no proof that the lightning and light-based attacks in Sailor Moon move at those speeds. To use the luminosity of a supernova as the determining factor of its massive energy output is based off of nothing factual. The science and physics don't work the same way they do in real life, which is why attempting to use real-world science to prove a point from a fantasy world is risky.
Now that I think about it, considering Usagi is morals off, and a basic Silver Crystal explosion from an inexperienced Usagi had a large supernova's AoE, everything on the planet gets nuked the nanosecond the match starts. She wouldn't even have to bother going through the trouble finding your team in order to kill you. The starting distance is only 100m and she can encompass everything on the planet with her blasts. And now she has no reason not to.
Lollllllllll okay. Considering you only bring this up now in your final post, and provided zero feats to back any of this up, no chance. She would still need to actually attack us, and although her travel speed is FTL, her combat speed isn't remotely close and you provided no feats to prove otherwise. But I like that you conceded the point of not being able to locate my team.
This is false. The scan itself refutes that. Manga scans are read from right to left. In the upper left corner panel of the scan, the brooch on her neck went "ba-dum" and we see a vision of her friends. It is because of that that she knows they are underground, which is why she touched the floor to sense them more accurately.
Oh, so now you're trying to prove she can find my team? What happened to nuking my team the moment the battle begins?
Usagi literally says "Where are they?" and looks NEXT TO HER before touching the ground and sensing them. She had no clue where they were until then. Even then, she had to physically touch the ground to find them, and she still only knew where they were in a very general way. This is proven by the fact that she says "The Underground 'Room of Darkness', Where is it?". This is nowhere near good enough to prove she could detect my invisible team while a horde of Ultron Sentries are going at her.
She couldn't sense them before because of her powers were limited. But Nemesis also has the gravity of a black hole and immense radiation. Not to mention with the Dark Crystal at it's core, Nemesis warps space-time.
And my team is invisible to all wavelengths of light, without you having provided any feats to suggest she could detect them through that while in a combat situation.
She will know your team is there. Even disregarding the above feat, Usagi can passively sense the aura/energy of people in her civilian/human form.
This is so vague. Being able to sense their energy does not mean she can pinpoint their location, especially while under attack.
But like I said earlier, being morals off means she'll open up the match with an attack. So even if all she can usee are the Ultron sentries, the explosion that one-shots them would still one shot you due to it's AoE and power.
And with the zero combat speed you have shown for her, there is zero chance she can attack before my team completely obliterate her with internal attacks. AFAIK, most attacks in Sailor Moon need to be spoken first with some accompanying flashy effects.
What? Did you not read my opener? I showed her no-selling the point blank explosion of the Silver Crystal, the exact one that one that was supernova level.
Okay, and how about blunt force durability, piercing, gunfire, internal attacks...?
It was expressly stated that she received no recoil damage from the energy she was putting out, which is obviously a clear indication that she can't be harmed by that level of force. Said energy is thousands of times greater in power Post-Serenity Sailor Moon could dish out (multiple star level and above feats).
That is strictly energy damage...
So forgive me for being amused, one can't help but feel that way when presented with the the argument that Ultron sentries can hurt Sailor Moon. Live action peak humans like Captain America were stomping them in droves. Bigger lol at explosive rifles.
You should be amused because all you showed was energy durability; nothing about blunt, piercing, internal attacks, etc. So yeah, there's nothing stopping them form pummelling her to death based on what you have presented.
In the scan I posted directly above, Pharoah 90 and Mistress 9 (who was possessing Hotaru at the time) are feeling the effects of her transformation. With Pharoah 90 complementing her power, stating "What a beautiful storm of light! What a magnificent aura it gives off! It's as heaven itself is giving off its power" which means that her transformation was actually releasing immense physical energy that could be seen and felt. They weren't one-shot because
1) Pharoah 90 is galaxy level. She no-sold an actual attack from Super Sailor Moon a couple chapters later.
2) Mistress is stronger than a Sailor Senshi.
These two are literally chilling in her light/energy as if they were sunbathing and experiencing zero pain or damage.... And yet the energy is enough to one-shot my team anyways?
This still does not prove that her mere transformation regularly harms/kills/vaporizes those around her. Just because it gives off an immense level of energy does not necessarily mean it is harmful in any way.
Like I said, Usagi actually can one-shot your team passively by transforming into Super Sailor Moon, since when she transformed she was actually releasing energy passively, but it was just a flex since the match starts with her already in that form. However, literally the very first thing she did the moment she became Sailor Moon was launch a blast at her opponent.
Which you didn't prove, like at all. Zero feats of her transformations actually harming those around her.
You keep contradicting yourself. First you say she is already transformed, but then you say her transformation will vaporize my team...? It can't be both lol.
I'm glad you pointed that out, because this attack involved her saying "Rainbow Moon Heart Ache". This just proves that she needs to speak her attack faster than my team can destroy her with internal attacks, which will literally happen the instant the battle begins.
And that's the pacifist in-character Usagi. Morals off, everything on the planet gets deleted without a moments hesitation. Including your team the Ultron bots. Usagi is faster than you so this is bound to happen.
Morals off Usagi still needs to speak her attack and fully execute it, that doesn't change.
Travel speed, yes. Combat speed, definitely not.
No. Pay attention to the wording.
"You can beat them the same way you recently took on the big celestial"
and
"By tuning its vibrations to the proper harmonic chord, you can shatter those metal monsters!"
This isn't mean to come off too harsh, but if we're being honest with ourselves, anyone with a reading comprehension above a 6th grade level would be able to infer that what Sue did was possible because of the composition of those robots. They were described as "metal monsters" who were giving off a certain vibration that Sue had to alter to a certain chord in order to defeat them. This is apparently the same way she took on a Celestial, who as you should know are robots.
I'm not saying that Sue is incapable of internal attacks. Just that this isn't a good example, and reflects on why you shouldn't mindlessly dump scans from respect threads.
It wasn't the best example, but it was just one of many showing some form of internal attack.
http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Sailor-Moon-chapter-10.html
So them going to the Moon means they have no lungs? Which is more likely: their powers allow them to survive in space, or their lungs are non-existent...?
She won't need to. She'll see the Ultron bots, launch a blast immediately, and vaporize every living thing on the planet including your team, due to it being thousands of times above star level.
She'll see the Ultron Bots, get swarmed by them, and be unable to fire off an attack due to her needing to speak to attack. And this is assuming my team doesn't immediately take her out the moment the battle begins.
Usagi escaped from being sucked inside Planet Nemesis as well as move around and fought in the vicinity of the planet. Making her faster than light since planet nemesis was stated more than once to be a black hole and sucks in light such as one.. It's a lot of scans so I'll post an imgur link. But she was drawn in, used her power to warp out, then along with Chibi Moon destroyed it (they weren't sucked in that time).
And yet this still doesn't equate to real combat speed, against an opponent that isn't an immobile planet...
Then there's walking around on the surface of the planet in base. Considering Usagi doesn't have really have good physical strength, I don't think the entire story arc would be possible if she was slower than light. And this was in a drastically weaker form. She doesn't use her speed in-character which is why people don't think she's fast, but good thing she's morals off.
You didn't show anything to suggest she has good combat speed, in-character or otherwise. So no, you can't assume she'll be so much faster just because she is morals off.
She affected Pharoah 90 and Mistress 9 with her presence after transforming.
They were nowhere close to being hurt or harmed by this. You didn't show anything to suggest this energy was harmful.
My opponent conceded the speed advantage at the behest of me supporting my claims of Usagi's speed with feats, which I complied to and did. That's an automatic GG since it goes without saying that everyone on Geek's team gets one-shotted with a blast. But what I love the most is the fact I don't need a speed advantage to win.
Uhh no, I didn't concede anything lol. Don't put words in my mouth just to make you seem superior to the voters. You have a travel speed advantage and that's it. You most certainly do not have a combat speed advantage given what you presented.
My team would get one-shotted with a blast....if they had no shields up. Most of your feats to prove Sailor Moon's power involved some insane scaling with several issues that I pointed out. Additionally, based on what I presented in my opener, a combined shield from my 3 team members should be enough to block your attack, IF you can even get an attack off.
Geek banked on his team's invisibility perk, but what he failed to realize is that Planet Nemesis is invisible to the naked eye. It was only located by high technology sensors through the huge amounts of negative energy it put out.
Which is GG x2 because of the plethora of feats I posted of Usagi against Nemesis, not to mention the scans I dropped proving she can sense the energy and aura of people.
It says a lot about you as a debater that the majority of your feats came in your final post lol.
That feat literally says the planet blipped out of watch and changed orbit.....That doesn't mean it turned invisible. The other part does say "although we can't see it", but this just shows the planet is out of view and not always visible. What leads you to believe it was invisible when Sailor Moon was attacking it?
All the arguments you presented about Usagi being able to detect my team were extremely lackluster, and I refuted all of them.
I also think it became very evident at certain points in the debate that Geek didn't read my posts carefully at all. He stated that I didn't post any durability feats (which was blatantly wrong) and actually implied that the Ultron Sentries could hurt her.
You're really desperate if you're trying to argue my supposed ignorance lol. I read your posts, more than once. Maybe I wasn't clear, but all you presented for durability was an energy explosion. You didn't show anything with blunt force, piercing, laser rifles, internal attacks, etc. You know, the relevant stuff?
Then there were the piteous attempts at debunking the Silver Crystal's firepower because I used real world metrics of luminosity to quantify it.
Which holds no meaning in a world where light and lightning attacks do not travel at those speeds.
Overall, this is a complete mismatch and there's no scenario where my opponents team can hope to win. It's three high tiers vs a morals off low-skyfather with buckets of hax. I also believe I made stronger rebuttals and defended my points.
"Buckets of hax" that you didn't show any of lol. I also like how you're admitting your character is sky father tier in a high-tier tournament. Way to sneak in characters.
Geek thinks that I'm going to fall for the superior character syndrome seeing as he compared me to his opponent in the round 1 debate. But I actually voted for Geek in that match because Aqualion used terrible arguments and scaling. It's not the same situation here. Every single bullet point in Geek's conclusion was false and refuted.
Me saying that had nothing to do with you at all. I was addressing the voters. People like you and Aqualion seem to be under the impression that raw power is all that matters in a tournament. It isn't. Having a good team with hax, strategy and a good choice of perks can easily overcome a much stronger character, which I proved in the first round when I was up against Monarch and Vulcan. I was just pointing out that this match is very similar.
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