Rebuttal #I | Gods, Goddesses and Sorcerers Finest
Counters Towards Law:
Whilst Law is indeed very powerful with his Room, with great strengths comes with great weaknesses as I'll cover within this section of my post. Lets begin shall we.
Room. Anything inside this room is at his mercy as he controls all in this space.
Yes it is true Law can manipulate and control anything in his room it is also very dependent on his reaction and combat speed, anyone that is even remotely faster than him can very easily avoid his strikes. Take Doffy for example who clearly was a step ahead of his room in combat.
the feats below showcase this brilliantly Here is a basic showing with room and i am very interested to see how you deal with this
His spatial cutting can even effect entire mountain ranges in AoE and before you say well multimoutain level is his cap i need to say 1 thing it did it does not matter as it ignores all conventional durability so as i said before you are at his mercy
And here is one of Law's major weaknesses, is the fact that his room has a "Limited" range in AoE. All that my characters has to do is keep out of the blue bubble. Based on the showing you've presented this shouldn't be really an issue for my team, since my members have been basically given full knowledge thanks to Strange's time stone, there is nothing that can catch my team off guard. Beerus dwarfs your entire team in stats it's not even funny, being MFTL he should very easily be able to move out of his room through sheer speed alone(tho not before obliterating your team into nothing), Twilight has instant teleportation that allows her to teleport miles upon miles in distance and can very easily transport herself and my members out of the circle.
Even then being hit by Law's room doesn't instantly kill my characters, just as you've said it only separates one part of there body from the rest via spacial manip, so If Beerus was by some extremelly off chance hit it wouldn't really stop him from blitzing your team or blasting them with a simple AoE.
He uses this ability to move all things in his room again you are at his mercy excited to see how you counter this
He can also use this ablltiy to redirect ranged attacks like so....
So basically glorified telekinesis, it won't stop the blitzing nor Twi from just teleporting our team out of the effects. As for the second section I'll just simply counter via speed blitz, as you've basically even admitted yourself Beerus just outclasses your team to the point where even his projectiles would move to fast for your characters to counter. Even then, this doesn't stop Beerus from using the Hakai technique on you.
This is basically his form of teleportation with this he can swap places with his opponents(as well as much more) as you will see below this will be useful as he can teleport your team in to an ash bone from Kaguya(which also ignores durability) a star-multi solar system level KI blast from Buu.
lol, didn't know Kaguya was on your team, anyways ignoring this. So just teleportation that is limited by the size of his room. Twi as teleportation as well.
Not only is she faster(thanks to Fox QS speed which I'm sure is faster then what Law is capable off) but can travel much further in distance as well, teleportation all across Equestria and she can provide this to herself and my team members.
He can also use it to switch the personalities of your team.
So a completely harmless ability, okay. Would also like to see how often he's applied this to combat.
-Law can cut a person's heart out of their chest within the Room. He can use his sword or his hand as shown in the scans below to cut through objects in the room. The heart is encased in a block and the owner of the heart does not die immediately from the heart being removed. If he grips the heart, it causes pain to the owner. If the heart is crushed or destroyed than the owner will die.
There is alot more to his room but i feel this enough for a intro now onto "the Intel"
Law needs to physically touch his opponent in order to pull this off, and it needs to be were the heart is located. My team will know about this ability anyway which makes it irrelevant seeing as Beerus can easily avoid it with his superior speed and blitz. Twi can just keep her distance via teleportation.
Counters Towards Buu:
Gonna keep this brief, as your surely aware and from what I posted in my opener whatever Buu can do Beerus can effortlessly replicate countless times over. This being said I will go over some aspects that I feel you may argue for.
Completely irrelevant, this can be easily avoided and it doesn't work on beings that are stronger than Buu such as SSJ Vegito.
Regeneration and durability
Fat Buu instantly heals from being pierced by a spear:
Fat Buu regenerates a hole in his stomach:
Super Buu Regenerates from liquid:
Kid Buu regenerates almost instantly from being vaporised by SSJ3 Goku's Kamehameha remember ss2 which is 8x weaker then SS3 is confirmed solar system level also this is one of the weakest versions of buu :
Again, completely irrelevant towards Beerus. He basically already overtaxed Buu's healing factor in there fight. Even then this ability while useful isn't infallible as it's been shown it has very clear limits in healing damage. Even then Beerus can just Hakai him out of existence, can't heal from being erased and since Strange's prep will basically tell him everything about the fight and your strategy there's nothing stopping from doing this.
Counters Towards Obito:
Intangibility. Tobi is capable of making certain parts or his entire body intangible for a certain period of time. He cannot attack when he’s intangible. In order to attack, he must solidify himself. His intangibility is the same Space-Time Jutsu as his absorption and teleportation technique. Obito’s intangibility works with him sending certain parts of his body to the Kamui dimension to become “intangible.”
So basically just glorified Intang, tho just you've said so yourself Obito can't use this and attack at the same time. Even then Beerus has ways of dealing with those who don't have a physical body, observe if you will.
Here Whis stats that "ghost or not, there nothing Beerus can't destoy" right after the GoD erases a ghost from existence and this ghost(like all generic ghosts) was completely intangible. So Beerus hakai hard counters his hard and as I've said before with prep Beerus will know everything, including Kamui.
Counters Towards Madara:
Now this section I'll be asking more so questions and concerns about Madara's toolkit, that being said lets begin.
Now i originally was gonna post alot of durability feats but as he is an immortal so this is unnecessary,Though we agreed to nerf his immortality but that does not nerf his regen,the only we he dies is if Frieza wrecks him with a aoe attack,
Yeah no, iirc Madara has to pre-program the izanagi in order for it to take effect. Even then as I've just previously mentioned above Hakai hard counters, no form of regen or immortality will save you from being erased from existence. And you obviously can't resist this ability so this point is moot.
Madara mentions after he absorbs the Shinju he says that he is now completely immortal therefore unkillable
Hakai, GG. Plus this doesn't mean your character can't be incaped or KO'd. Seeing as Beerus can overwhelm and KO those with divine ki I'm also positive that with a large enough AoE blast will do him in.
Being cut in half doesn't even inconvenience Madara:
Already addressed, plus being sliced in half =/= being atomized with casual multi-planetary AoE and that's him from just basically sneezing.
The Rinnegan (輪廻眼, Literally meaning: Saṃsāra Eye) is reputed as the most exalted eye amongst the "Three Great Dōjutsu", the others being the Sharinganand the Byakugan. It is said that in times of disorder, one who wields the Rinnegan is sent down from the heavens to become either a "God of Creation" who will calm the world or a "God of Destruction" who will reduce everything to nothingness. The Rinnegan is characterised by a ripple pattern that spreads over the eyeball.
I know this doesn't translate to anything major but you've just flat out copied from the wiki page, you could've at least sourced and referenced your information before ripping it from the page.
It allows the user to manipulate attractive and repulsive forces, as well as manipulate the pull of gravity. It works on both objects and people.
Almighty Push (Shinra Tensei)- A powerful repelling force of gravity that can blast all matter away from the user
Universal Pull (Bansho Tenin) - Allows the user to manipulate the attractive force and pull things closer to them
Catastrophic Planetary Devastation (Chibaku Tensei) - Allows the user to manifest a small black sphere with a powerful gravitational pull. The sphere is then released into the air and surrounding matter is drawn to the core and compacted into a levitating meteorite
Madara can spam Chibaku tensei's and drop them like meteors. Casual country busting feat
I only have to bring up one thing and it's the biggest thing on my mind, but just how much in-character is all of this for Madara. As from my limited of Naruto most of his hax seems very OOC for him to use. Even then this is basically a glorified form of TK, this should certainly have zero effect on Beerus, considering characters like Frieza during Namek saga have been capable of TKing characters weaker than him with zero effort.
Then as we all know Goku powers up to SSJ and even at full power Frieza was unable to TK Goku directly. What does this prove, that in the world of DB with a high enough power level one can resist things such as TK, just as how SSJ Vegito was able to resist and break out of Buuhans candy beam with raw power. And considering how powerful Beerus is this ability honestly should have little to no effect on the GoD, and that's assuming your character doesn't get blitzed and one shotted before your character reacts.
Allows the user to read the mind of any target they lay their hands upon, it also allows them to rip the targets soul out of their bodies
Just as I've brought up above, I would like to see some evidence to suggest this is IC for Madara to use. Or at least some form of reason as to why he'd use it here. Otherwise I'm calling this out on being OOC.
Truth-Seeking Ball (Goudama)-
Truth seeking balls/orbs are malleable spheres of black chakra composed of all 5 nature transformations and Yin-Yang release. They can be molded and shaped in different ways for a variety of purposes. Any power that comes in contact with the orbs will be negated, and the TSB have the ability to disintegrate all matter at a molecular level, completely destroying what they touch and nullifying regeneration of the Edo (similar to Dust Release and All-Killing Ash Bones).So yeah if saitama touches the tsb he is dead
lol, apparently Saitama is apart of this debate. Just saying but you could've at least have tried to change what you've copied from your previous CaV's. Anyways again this doesn't sound very IC for Madara(if at all tbh) and it kinda sounds NLFy, what is it's best feat of effecting because if it's lesser than planet level it shouldn't really do anything to Beerus.
Madara creates invisible clones that exist in a dimension known as Limbo. The clones operate independently of the user and are impossible to detect or touch
and generate a corporeal invisible shadow to aid him in battle, which was powerful enough to knock down all nine (island to country level )tailed beasts.
Upon regaining both of his Rinnegan, Madara was able to produce up to four shadows(Limbo) to aid him.
With the Outer Path, he could create chakra chains to fully restrain all nine island level tailed beasts
These clones really amount to nothing towards Beerus, they're absolute fodder that can get accidentally one shotted with Beerus's mere presence alone. Beerus can also sense the ki of all things and even divine ki, so he can easily spot were they are if he wanted too.
Initial Counters Towards Your Prep:
Absorption. Buu with his Blood lust as well as new found intellect will absorb his team during the prep and thus will gain all of their powers and techniques Is that an example you asked form well here you go, when Buu was losing to Gohan he decided to make use of Piccolo's knowledge and Gotenks power to power up even further, here he Gained their memories, knowledge and skills
He also showed the ability to use these powers to the best of his ability
Just gonna say right now your kinda shooting yourself in the foot here, essentially making yourself an easier target for Beerus to blitz and oneshot. This doesn't necessarily mean all the OOC abilities are applicable now, since he'll also be absorbing the characters personalities, memories and morals.
The Infinite Tsukuyomi is a genjutsu that traps the entire world in an illusion, enslaving them in a dream so that their chakra may be drawn upon Madara can also free people from the attack if he pleases.
You've copied and pasted from the wiki page, would prefer on front evidence being scans but it doesn't really matter. This being said I already have several issues with this ability:
Once cast, the penetrating , bright enough to dispel the night for as long as it is active. All those who fall under its gaze are trapped in the genjutsuNarutopedia Page | Infinite Tsukuyomi
As it states above the IT is done through light that shines across the world, further stating that anyone who is caught within the light is trapped in the genjutsu. You'd be basically committing mental suicide for your entire team during prep.
Next point I would like to bring up is (just like with the rest of Madara's abilities) doesn't seem like he'd use it in a random encounter, I would like to see some evidence suggesting it's IC for him to use tsukuyomi or at least within reason why he'd use it here.
Your gonna have to show some planetary level TP resistance feats, Especially for Beerus as i know they do not exist.
1st - I initially prepared for this ability and that my friend is the pony, you see whilst there aren't exactly telepaths in the world of MLP;FiM, all magic is done through and is reliant on the mind. To give an example of the fundamentals of magic would be telekinesis. A such ability that unicorns/alicorns channel there magic through and is concentrated through the mind. Were am I going with this, well to be blunt all ponies that use magic are required to have an extremely powerful mentally speaking.
Let's move on Twi who in this tournament not only has her own mental prowess but the combined powers of the three alicorns(Celestia, Luna, Cadance) who each process very impressive levels of mental fortitude(Celestia and Luna being controllers of the sun and moon through TK)
Genjutsu is low-level TP(not referring to AoE, more so potency) and considering the amount of mental fortitude Twi processes she should be highly resistant to such an ability, even if it does overwhelm her she'll at the least struggle long enough to cast the following spell on your team:
FYI I know you made an attempt to counter this, If you scroll down further I have already addressed it)
As I've previously mentioned in my opener, If by some off chance we enter the fight and Twi hasn't casted this spell yet she'll most certainly do so once she notices what's going on and it's not like she isn't fast enough as I've established in my opener as well that herself and strange will be given fox Quicksilver level speeds.
2nd - As you seem to be confident that the TP/Illusion will work on Beerus but I'd say I'm not so sure as for an example even Majin Vegeta during the Buu Saga was able to resist a direct telepathic order from babidi. Seeing as comparing Majin Vegeta to Beerus would be the equivalent of comparing an ant to a boot this feat should be applicable to the GoD, so he should very well be able to resist the effects similar to how Vegeta did if not much easier since he has universal level power(multi-solar system/galaxy if you lowball)
3rd - As a cherry on top, Twi has another ability which she can fall back on to hard counter the IT that being her Fail-Safe spell which can be used to dispel all illusions and counter TP. Since my entire team will basically know all about your genjutsu-wizardry thanks to Strange's time stone(feel like a broken record mentioning it lol) Twi will know they're in an illusion/TP and cast this spell.
To further elaborate, this spell was originally created to counter a being known as Discord and his reality warping a being with star level power. Although the spell may not have worked this was Twi in her normal state, here she is amped to drastic levels thanks to all the alicorn amps she was equally matched with Lord Tirek who had just absorbed all the power of Discord as well as all the equestrian magic in the world. This seemingly makes Composite Amped Twi > Discord in power.
What does this all mean, well that Illusions won't be an issue thanks to the amps as they'll allow for Twi to cast the spell.
If you some how survive the TP then you not only have to find a way to kill my intangible/ Immortal Composite, you have to find a way to get through the invisible "Limbo" clones as well as wood clones, all of which hold multi planetary Energy projection as well as unstoppable one shot hax(Which will be elaborated on).
Already addressed above, Hakai hard counters your character as even with a ounce of destruction will be enough to wipe you out. Clones and wood clones are completely irrelevant to Beerus and get one shotted in the blast alone with your entire team. Multi-Planetary projection, lmao. That's mere childsplay towards a GoD
He literally does that sort of thing by just sneezing. And most of your characters hax is OOC anyway.
Counters Towards my Team:
Is this in character? Beerus is a very prideful fighter and you do not have perfect team work,
I don't really see an issue, Beerus has changed a whole lot since the beginning of BoG. Hell he's even babysitting Bulma's kid and is able to put up with that(and you know how loud they can be), He's even shown great respect towards others such as with Roshi in the ToP and enthusiasm when he's hanging out with the Z fighters and eating food. Presides to really nail it in the coffin you have completely glossed over Strange's time stone, the literal first thing that happens with my prep not to mention I've talked about it multiple times and basically made it the foundation of my prep. My team will have full knowledge on your team so none of what you said will happen.
But to be brief, Beerus will know whats going down with both our teams and will further enforce him to co-operate with his teammates, sure he maybe prideful of his own strength and status as a GoD but he is far from dumb. Knowing what was going to happen with the ToP he without any hesitation co-operated with the Z fighters to build a team, even putting people like Frieza and Vegeta in check.
- TL:DR With the time stone, Twi will also know that everything is in danger and will have to resort to casting the following spells and my team will act accordingly
Even then I can bring up an example of being prep time can't be judged based the number of times they've used said prep as even the highest level of prep gods rarely(if ever) replicate it again. If said character has in the past accomplished something in prep and said prep didn't have context around it then it should be valid.
if were being honest its more likely Beerus kills your team during prep then working with a stupid pony.So like i said prove this is in character for MCYU strange,Pony and Beerus. I know you cant.
Oh I didn't know Beerus was Frieza now or Evil Buu, Beerus has never outright killed anyone. Only to those that are rude, disrespectful or try to attack him. None of which are Twi or Strange. Your entire argument of basically Beerus killing Twi and Strange just for the sake of it/evil intention falls flat right on it's face.
And Beerus doesn't discriminate based of appearance or what type of creature he is talking too, your literally getting mixed up with Frieza(and yeah sure If I had Frieza on my team you may have a point, but I don't so it's irrelevant)
LMAO, "stupid pony". Sure the very character that loves to over-analyse every bit of information and after encountering her future self gets all Dock Brown on time travel and does all of this as well as has a song that is basically about how intelligence(0:33, he answers this freaking maths question and gets it completely right) Including the following achievements with her mind such as.
- -Has Genius-Level Intelligence
- -Is levelheaded.
- -Graduate of Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns.
- -Has a knack for organization, which helps in coordinating others and plans.
- -Made a 70 point plan for if all her friends had to leave the School of Friendship for a while.
- -Able to multitask, even when under extreme stress or pressure.
- -Has created her own original spells.
- -Frequently turns to research any obstacle presented to her.
- -Has been able to turn what looked to be years of study into five minutes of in-depth research.
- -Possesses a large, condensed spell book that can be summoned at will.
- -Seems to possess a photographic memory.
- -Recalled a spell that she only read once from a single page.
- -Has figured out how to use magic used by others from just a single viewing, even improving upon it.
- -Constructed a laboratory from scratch to analyse Pinkie Pie's Pinkie Sense.
- -Constructed a trans-dimensional portal out of random parts and a tome that could receive messages across alternate dimensions...in only ten seconds.
- -Knowledgeable in potion techniques, teaching children how to make one that gave plants sentience.
- -Cunning enough to outsmart more powerful opponents.
Suuurrrreeeee, she's just a mere stupid pony. Yeah try again and next time come back with a more compelling argument than that. If you so demand intellect feats(tho I have no purpose to gain from lying, plus I literally showed her constructing a portal to another dimension as well as creating a device capable of absorbing equestrian magic) I'll so gladly post them.
OOC. Also one KI blast ends it.
Already Addressed it isn't OOC, and not if Beerus has anything to say about.
Wrong.Illusion do not work and will not work on a composite Buu due the power of the sharingan.
Lol at it being an illusion, you couldn't be anymore wrong mate. But let's go over the scan one more time just so I can make sure we both are on the same page:
It's not an illusion, rather it's Twi basically ripping the mind out of the victims vessel and applying it to her own while stile being in control of her own which leaves the victim as a mindless husk. AKA, Mind stealing. Does that sound anything like an illusion to you, yeah I thought so. You can have all your sharingans you want it ain't gonna do nothing to a "magic spell" that mind steals ya, and since you've merged your character as one it'll only make you a bigger target for you to be taken out in one full swoop, this is assuming you don't accidentally suicide yourself with the IT.
Never knew beerus could end battles whilst asleep. Anyway like i said this is horribly out of character. This is also impossible due to my character being invisible, intangible and Immortal.
Addressed the first section, and it isn't due to time stone. He ain't gonna have none of your shenanigans. Time stone will tell him everything and he'll know that if he doesn't do it he will be in danger. As for your character being invisible, you seem to have forgotten surprisingly that Dragon Ball characters can sense living beings through ki, Beerus is no different. He'll easily do this before the fight starts and one shot blitz your mindless character(due to Mind Melding) of the gate, with the planetary spamming attacks on top. Already addressed Intangibility and Immortality so moving on.
The question isnt CAN you do it the question is WILL and the answer to that is no.
Great.Good thing Im using a composite, since we are talking canonically, canonically IT solos the Dragon ball verse. I'll just say it right know Beerus(and his clone) can Godstomp your entire team there is no debate there.
Nice try dodging the bullet and I'll take your ignorance as a concession. Twi ain't gonna let you pass with IT and lol at it soloing DBS, I literally posted above one can make the argument that even Buu Saga top tiers can resist hax.
Beerus always pulls his punches.
So you have no initial counter towards Strange's time future foresight and instead try to make stuff up. Cool, and FYI not if Beerus knows whats up and(for example) unless if your telling me post-ToP if Jiren and Beerus thought in a hypothetical scenario(don't ask for specifics, just as a what if) you think Beerus wouldn't go full power against him knowing exactly what he's capable off, as I've said Beerus is prideful of his strength but he isn't stupid.
You need to rethink over what you said, man.
Lol, google search would of answered that question.
Phenomenal counter argument.
I loled at being outnumbered,
My mistake, tho as the wise man once said. Quality > Quantity and I'd take 2 universal Gods of Destruction over essentially a bunch of fodder in comparison anyday.
Im gonna guess you know now.
Not really, your gonna have to try a lot harder than that.
Counters To Your Conclusion:
You simply lack the resistance to hang with my team, i mean from TP to poison manip to spatial cutting, you simply lack the ability to win this fight. Some thing as simple as mind swapping ends this fight,
Already addressed all of your points and how Twi hard counters your TP and even Beerus resisting it with sheer power like Majin Vegeta did.
Laws hax is severly limited by his room and isn't really a major threat unless he lands scalpel which he won't, and on the contrary I have plenty of ways on how to win this fight.
I honestly have no idea why you accepted my challenge
So a completely harmless ability, okay.
I don't really get why you challenged me, but I guess we'll wait and see. It's your move man.
^ this from my opener still applies
What my Opponent Has Failed to Counter:
I - Mind Melding/Twi Versatility
- My opponent thought he could be sneaky and attempt to try countering Mind Melding but he ultimately failed, presuming that it was an illusion which I've clarified is clearly not. He has no way around this ability and therefor doesn't stop Twi from ripping your characters consciousness from the mind, essentially ending the fight with your character as a complete husk.
Not only that but you've also haven't countered Twi's moon/planetary level TK which herself and my entire team has thanks to the amps provided for my teammates(which I've further put into detail in my opener), on top of that but transmutation which is another option for taking your team out.
II - Hakai/Destruction
- Honestly can't believe out of all the things you left out of God of Destruction's most dangerous and powerful ability as I've even made it as apart of a way to wiping out your team. Unless you have an answer to destruction, essentially wiping your team out from existence(which you don't).
Immortal, Regeneration, Intangibility. Ain't gonna mean anything if you become nothing.
III - Strange's Future Foresight
- Another aspect of my initial opener which my opponent glossed over, you haven't provide any challenge towards this ability which is the foundation of my prep, the reason why it ultimately comes all together.
IV - What ultimately defeats you most off all
I'll wrap this up by providing the following the initial criteria which you have failed to meet:
- Lack of raw power/bad match up - While you've created a formidable team unfortunately for you this is just a case of it being a bad match up, being Buu simply isn't a match for Beerus and is quiet frankly fodder to him which just goes to show how outclassed the rest of your characters are
- Law's lack of range - Laws room is limited by it's range and is easily countered via Future Foresight, all of my team can easily avoid
- Lack of initial defenses - Ironically for you considering you attempted to use this as an argument against me but you have failed to provide any counters towards the hax I have brought to the table.
V - A Taste of What Your up Against
This section will more so focus on just how badly Beerus outclasses you in physicals and how your team just cannot compete in speed.
Beerus and his twin brother Champa get into a fight, it rages on throughout space. As you can see they are not only busting planets with there mere punches but were traveling to each of them in a near instant.
With a swift google earth(here's the link to the website) that it takes roughly 8 minutes and 20 seconds for light to travel from the sun to the earth. Beerus and Champa went from planet to planet in like a near instant, this would easily make Beerus MFTL in both reaction/combat and travel speed.
So what do we have here, well the following:
- Multi-Planetary + level striking power/strength
- MFTL Speeds
Can my opponents team(mainly Buu) match up to this. Yeah, only in his wildest dreams maybe.
As of now my initial conclusion from my opener still stands on my viewpoint towards how this match up goes. At this point my opponent has yet to fully counter everything I've mentioned above but I'll also mention a few things about my opponents way of winning.
Tsukuyomi(along with most of Madara's hax tbh) is very questionable whether or not he'd use here, as he is given no reason to in an random encounter. Even if he does it'll only shoot his own team in the foot as it will effect his comrades as well. I've established the following counters towards it such as Twi/Beerus own mental resistance and Twi ability to shut his members down before it can take effect.
Looking forward to seeing how my opponent will counter everything I've brought up, this being said I can happily close up my post.