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#52 Posted by Stalin-Is-Steel (3586 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, I'll be honest, this was pretty poor in terms of debating quality. Bosche provided little context for his plan and made a bunch of assumptions about prep and how his characters would act despite being in character with no knowledge behind them. He just seems to dump scans with little context behind them and expects the opponent to be the one to find it.

"Why do I have show feats for Xavier." I think that quote summed up his debating in a nutshell. Willing to make statements, but deeply lacking when pressed for context or justification. Comparing Shadow King to Post Crisis Manhunter is laughable to anyone who actually knows their stuff.

I'll vote for @geekryan for having a plan that made sense and debunking Bosche's statements pretty well. Bosche's needs to improve massively on a lot of things based on this one debate I've seen him in, no offence.

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#53 Edited by boschePG (6320 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659 could you take a look at this and vote. some tags on voters would be nice too if you can

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#54 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18450 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, I'll be honest, this was pretty poor in terms of debating quality. Bosche provided little context for his plan and made a bunch of assumptions about prep and how his characters would act despite being in character with no knowledge behind them. He just seems to dump scans with little context behind them and expects the opponent to be the one to find it.

"Why do I have show feats for Xavier." I think that quote summed up his debating in a nutshell. Willing to make statements, but deeply lacking when pressed for context or justification. Comparing Shadow King to Post Crisis Manhunter is laughable to anyone who actually knows their stuff.

I'll vote for @geekryan for having a plan that made sense and debunking Bosche's statements pretty well. Bosche's needs to improve massively on a lot of things based on this one debate I've seen him in, no offence.

I try to not just quote other people when I vote on CaVs, but I think this sums up what I would say.

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#55 Posted by haoalchemist (6196 posts) - - Show Bio
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#56 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio
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#57 Posted by Aristeaus (1096 posts) - - Show Bio
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#58 Posted by geekryan (4719 posts) - - Show Bio
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#59 Posted by Aristeaus (1096 posts) - - Show Bio

@geekryan said:

@Aristeaus: any reasons why? Thanks for the vote

Your argument was better. Thats all we can vote on. But, if you want to know my opinion outside of the arguments....

He does not seem to understand Bleach very well. Which makes me sad, because I do love me some Bleach.

Gigais DO limit the power of the body in question. They do not have full power.

Askin cannot manipulate anything he wants. He has to have already subjected himself to it. He has never manipulated Fire or Lightning, or Magic for that matter. Just because a attack takes the form of lightning in bleach, doesnt make it lightning. Its still Reiatsu, which is the core component for all Shinigami stuffs. Hell, he even SAYS it in the panel he used as a feat. Additionally, that component must be inside the opponent to be able to be altered to a lethal level. He cant eat a bunch of Cardboard and then make Zatanna die of Cardboard poisoning. He also cannot eat a bunch of Magic, to make Zatanna die of Magic. It can be argued that Magic is inside of her, but no levels of Magic are going to kill her because that isnt how magic works in DC. It is not lethal at all. That would be like saying Askin can make your personal Religon IRL lethal to you. Regardless, as you pointed out, he has no knowledge of your team, so its not feasible for him to prep it out, not only that, he did not even attempt to use his prep for such a reason. His death field, is just a amplification of the same ability, and its kinda small when he is not in his vollanstag. Which he never mentioned?. Even when he is in his upgraded form, its only like arena size. Zatanna trumps that hard.

Shunsui AoE is not what he says it is. It is not AoE at all, in fact. It only shares wounds between himself and his opponent. What he posted as the AoE, is not even the same ability. That is the third act of Shunsuis Bankai. It does something completely different from Wound Sharing ( Which is the first act, and they go in order ).

Rukias Bankai is also, only like Arena size. It also can only be used once, as she will be frozen herself for a long while after using it, long enough for the battle to be over.

Friendly Fire... While its true Rukia would not effect others, she still would be effected herself. Same with Shunsui Injury share ( which requires him to get injured to even utilize ).

Urahara cannot teleport himself or others. The scan he posted is of him opening a gateway, which still needs to be traversed. They are basically tunnels to other places ( Human World, Soul Society, Soul Kings Palace ). He cant just go wherever he wants to go instantly. He can use a advanced form of this to swap one area with another, but it takes a immense amount of setup and wouldnt change the protection. In any case, it is not teleportation in the slightest.

He also did not defend himself very well, and was focused mostly on attacking. He did not even do that well. Xavier has some top end feats that would certainly cement the whole stalling MMH thing.

Though at the same time you did not use Zatanna or MMH to their potentials either. Whole battle was kind of a mess, TBH.

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#60 Edited by boschePG (6320 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus: you can vote how ever you want but to defend my knowledge of Bleach

1- Gigai's do have full power when Soul Society takes the limits off. Shunsui took over for Yammamoto thus Shunsui has the power to take the caps off. When the Arrancar invaded Earth, Toshiro, Ikkaku and gang needed the limits off to then defeat the Arrancar that showed. Shunsui released Aizen against the wishes of Central 46 and made Unohana try to learn Bnaki. Shunsui tries to stab people in the back to win. Its in character and he has the power to do so

2Askin did tank fire when he tanked Yoroichi's brother fire attack and did with lightning when he fought Yoroichi. The Reitsu aspect is correct but then it would be like saying Cyclops doesn't fire optic blast cuz he opens a small portal to the Cytorrak dimension, but that's semantics

3- Shunsui injury share is the first act. the second act is the disease process and the final act is the thread in which he chops off your head. It shares all the injury of everyone in the area as stated by Ukitake thus it is an AoE attack, and as I stated the reason why he had to shunpo to the other part of Soul King palace

4- Urahara's teleportation is the same as Magik or Nightcrawler, they both go through something. True they have to go through the dankai but if it isn't teleportation then what do you describe it? Its pretty much a wormhole

5-Rukia - I even said the battle would last less than 4 seconds

So I would actually question your knowledge of Bleach

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#61 Edited by Aristeaus (1096 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg said:

@Aristeaus: you can vote how ever you want but to defend my knowledge of Bleach

1- Gigai's do have full power when Soul Society takes the limits off. Shunsui took over for Yammamoto thus Shunsui has the power to take the caps off. When the Arrancar invaded Earth, Toshiro, Ikkaku and gang needed the limits off to then defeat the Arrancar that showed.

2Askin did manipulate fire when he tanked Yoroichi's brother fire attack and did with lightning when he fought Yoroichi. The Reitsu aspect is correct but then it would be like saying Cyclops doesn't fire optic blast cuz he opens a small portal to the Cytorrak dimension

3- Shunsui injury is share is the first act. the second act is the disease process and the final act is the thread in which he chops off your head. It shares all the injury of everyone in the area as stated by Ukitake thus it is an AoE attack

So I would actually question your knowledge of Bleach

Yeah... So.... It truly is astonishing to me how you keep referencing the very same things that prove you wrong.

Gigais have nothing to do with the Limiter. Limits are placed on all LT and Captains in the human world. The very same fight you are referring to, when the Arrancar invaded, BEFORE the fight even started Hitsugaya left his Gigai. It was at the end of the fight that he did the Limit Release, after he was long out of his Gigai. Literally two different things.

He manipulated the Reiatsu, not the fire. Because all Shinigami have Reiatsu inside of them as the core of their very being, he can use that for his Deathdealing. Magic is completely different. He can probably manipulate it to take some attacks without dying, but not to nullify/incap Zatanna.

Yeah... Utitake never says that. He says you shouldnt use your bankai here when referring to the Starkk fight, which at best implies there are some AoE elements to his Bankai ( only the third act ), and at worst implies you shouldnt show the ultimate enemy, Aizen, one of the few things he doesnt know about ( IE, A high end captains Bankai ).

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#62 Edited by boschePG (6320 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus: Just so Im clear, Im not trying to flame you. I just wanted to discuss the Bleach aspect. I said Ukitake said that about Shunsui. I know Urahara never said that

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#63 Posted by Aristeaus (1096 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg said:

@Aristeaus: Just so Im clear, Im not trying to flame you. I just wanted to discuss the Bleach aspect. I said Ukitake said that about Shunsui. I know Urahara never said that

I am not trying to flame you either. Its just real weird that you keep posting stuff for your argument that contradicts your entire statement. I edited the post. I typed the wrong name.

It also saddens me personally as I am a Bleach fan, and you could have won this fight, but you were all over the place with your assumptions.

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#64 Posted by geekryan (4719 posts) - - Show Bio
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#65 Posted by tomtheawesome123 (1530 posts) - - Show Bio

@geekryan:

Trust me you don't want me to vote because I am biased.

I am biased towards you because you are my teammate.

And I am also biased because after skimming through both of your opening posts. I couldn't bear myself to read Bosch's posts any longer, If I vote I would probably just vote for you based solely on formatting.

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#66 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27731 posts) - - Show Bio

@geekryan:

No worries I didn't forget. I'll vote ASAP.

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#67 Posted by geekryan (4719 posts) - - Show Bio
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#68 Edited by boschePG (6320 posts) - - Show Bio
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#69 Posted by geekryan (4719 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg: I believe ET goes until there are 5 votes for someone

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#70 Posted by emperorthanos- (16568 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
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#71 Posted by geekryan (4719 posts) - - Show Bio
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#72 Edited by ANTHP2000 (27731 posts) - - Show Bio

I will note before giving reasoning that I'm not that good with anime/manga, and most of the time I get exhausted trying to read through the scans - not your fault or anything, just excusing myself for taking the time to read through the debate. I'll also note that I had borderline no knowledge on the characters coming in, which adds to objectivity.

I'll give my vote to @geekryan, for 2 main reasons; much better formatting, his posts were much easier to go through and a good bit more organised. It's not easy reading entire posts, let alone debates, for people, so in order to make it easier both for your opponent and the voters, you need to make it easier for them. @boschepg's opener seem kinda rushed, at least in comparison.

As far as the actual battle/debate goes, I wasn't convinced @boschepg's team could work around such high level threats. GR knew what cards he had, and he played them right. TP arguments were quickly countered by the fact that MMH was simply superior on that regard. In short, I was mostly convinced by the sheer versatality and unorthodox powers Zantana and MMH brought to the table, the speed perk was all that was needed and the Chitauri Army for support and clean up with the lower tiers was enough to seal the deal for me.

Overall, seems like GR had everything planned out upon entering the tourney with his team, which I value a lot. Solid debate, and good luck in the future.

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#73 Posted by geekryan (4719 posts) - - Show Bio

I will note before giving reasoning that I'm not that good with anime/manga, and most of the time I get exhausted trying to read through the scans - not your fault or anything, just excusing myself for taking the time to read through the debate. I'll also note that I had borderline no knowledge on the characters coming in, which adds to objectivity.

I'll give my vote to @geekryan, for 2 main reasons; much better formatting, his posts were much easier to go through and a good bit more organised. It's not easy reading entire posts, let alone debates, for people, so in order to make it easier both for your opponent and the voters, you need to make it easier for them. @boschepg's opener seem kinda rushed, at least in comparison.

As far as the actual battle/debate goes, I wasn't convinced @boschepg's team could work around such high level threats. GR knew what cards he had, and he played them right. TP arguments were quickly countered by the fact that MMH was simply superior on that regard. In short, I was mostly convinced by the sheer versatality and unorthodox powers Zantana and MMH brought to the table, the speed perk was all that was needed and the Chitauri Army for support and clean up with the lower tiers was enough to seal the deal for me.

Overall, seems like GR had everything planned out upon entering the tourney with his team, which I value a lot. Solid debate, and good luck in the future.

Thanks a lot!

I really really appreciate the vote and the detailed reasoning :)