2018 High Tier PYP 2nd Edition RD2:Boschepg vs Geekryan(Open for voting)

It's time for the second round

@boschepg

Characters

• Kisuke Urahara 2
• Shunsui 2
• Askin 2
• Xavier 2
• Rukia 1
• Nanoa ise 1

Perks

• Light speed travel (Rukia Kuchiki) (7)
• No Friendly Fire (5)
• 1 hour prep (1)
• X-men Team (2)

@geekryan

Characters

1. Zatana 6
2. Pre 52 Martian Manhunter 6

Perks

• 2 extra character points (5)
• Lightspeed for Zatanna (7)
• 1 hour of prep (1)
• 200 Chitauri (2)

Rules

1. Win by Death, Incap or KO.
2. Standard Gear.
3. Time Jumping, remnants, speeding up ones own time is allowed. Other forms of time manip is banned.
4. No speed steal
5. No BFR.
6. No reality warping
7. No Power Copying/stealing.
8. No Summons, constructs or any other fodder stronger than 616 Bleeding Edge Iron Man.
9. Summons are limited to 200
10. Cloning is limited to 10

Voting Rules:

1. Vote for the better debater
2. Do not vote on which character you think you will win
3. Give reasoning to your vote.
4. I will count the total votes
5. If I feel a vote is unjustified or biased I will not count it.

Battle ground

Indestructible planet inside a Solar System like others, with no other people on it except for the fighters.

@boschepg a worthy opponent! Best of luck to you man!

Would you care to go first? I am unfamiliar with almost all of your characters.

@geekryan: I can put something together in 24 hours

The two teams/debaters i wanted to face going at it

T4V

@boschepg: sounds good!

@geekryan:

my basic intro

Nanao Ise

Basically she does force field magic and healing.

Her sword reflects power back on intense scale. Here it reflects a city level light/energy blast (Bleach 652/653)

.

Rukia Kuchiki (with light speed perk)

She freezes stuff and can get to absolute zero (that's right, the speed stopper as per DCs Captain Cold and per explanation in the series)

She has an AoE attack I will show in strategy

Bleach 201

creates frozen vertical freeze from ground vertically upward

Bleach 567, 569, 570

.

Charles Xavier

I believe everybody knows. Telepath. Will explain more in strategy. Don't have to waste post space, IMO

.

Shunsui Kyoraku

Shadow manipulator (teleporter and others). If there is a shadow he can teleport through it, even if its on a person Bleach 374

inury sharing. its a city level AoE where any damage within the AoE share injuries. (I have No Friendly Fire perk so my teams injuries do not reflect on my team) Bleach 647 and 648

the AoE also has some emotion manipulation

.

Askin Nakk Le Vaar

he is my damage soaker. when exposed to something he can make it lethal to his opponent in his AoE Bleach 658, 663

He has made things like oxygen, nitrogen, spirit energy, fire, electricity, and blood lethal to his opponent

.

Kisuke Urahara

He is my prep, genius, magic, ninja, matter manipulator

energy magic

magic seals

AoE matter manipulation

.

X-Men team perk (Cyclops, Beast, Gambit, Wolverine, Nightcrawler

.

PREP

Since Asken has an AoE that makes anything he is subject to poisonous as per scan, we will subject Askin to magic

Urahara gives everyone outside of Asken, clones as their real body hides in shadows per Shunsui

STRATEGY

Xavier stalls Jonz with TP

I seal Manhunter with magical seals while in TP battle with Xavier

I have to eliminate speed, so Rukia unleashes her AoE absolute zero and due to my perk of No Friendly Fire, my team is immune to the AoE while Jonz is in a TP battle with Xavier

Zatanna's magic has been made moot since if she uses it it incaps her due to Asken

Shunsui uses his AoE bankai, with No Friendly Fire perk it doesnt effect my team, to take out the entire Chitari force

Done

@boschepg: Is this your full opener or are you adding prep, strategy, etc?

@geekryan: this is just an intro.

did you want me to add prep and strategy cuz it sounded like you wanted an intro

@boschepg: it's up to you dude! We only get 3 posts each, and I was going to do my prep and strategy in my opener

good point. Ill edit it then tag you when Im done

@geekryan: Im done. your turn

Ok cool! I should have my post up within 2-3 days!

@boschepg:

Zatanna, the Mistress of Magic

Introduction

Powers

Abilities

Martian Manhunter (Pre-52)

Introduction

Powers

Abilities

Perks

I have chosen the Light Speed perk for Zatanna.

Zatanna's main disadvantage in combat is her speed. Since she is human, her reaction speeds are average and she needs to be able to speak her spells backwards (in most cases) in order to cast them. This perk enhances her combat, travel, and reaction times to the speed of light, which is equivalent to roughly 200 thousand miles per second. This will allow Zatanna to speak and cast her spells at light speed, which is significantly faster than the speed of thought. In fact, in terms of miles per hour, light speed is roughly 3 million times faster than the speed of thought. This will allow her to cast multiple spells in the span of a second. It also serves to increase her defensive capabilities, allowing her to react to attacks and either dodge or block them much more quickly. More importantly, this puts her speed way above anyone on your team except Rukia since she also has the same perk .

I also have an army of 200 Chitauri (from MCU's "The Avengers") and 1 hour of prep on the battlefield.

Chitauri

The Chitauri are a race of cybernetically-enhanced aliens. They have superhuman physical attributes and are strong enough to briefly contend with Captain America. They also come equipped with energy rifles capable of firing shots strong enough to hurt and knock down Captain America. Lastly, they also have timed explosives that can create large explosions upon detonation. Individually, they aren't too threatening, but their power comes with their numbers. A large group of Chitauri were even able to overwhelm the Hulk with their energy rifles.

My army of 200 Chitauri will be enough to match your team, at least for awhile. They will serve as a very good distraction since they will become overwhelming if left unchecked. Their use will be explained in the following sections.

Prep

With my 1 hour of prep on the battlefield, I will do a few things.

The first thing I will do is have MMH establish a psychic link for my entire team. This will allow them to communicate telepathically throughout the entire battle. Since Zatanna and MMH are both part of the Justice League and have worked together in the past, they should have a decent amount of teamwork and know of each other's capabilities. A telepathic link will allow them to improve their teamwork, coordinate their strategies and attacks, trade information and knowledge about their powers/abilities with the Chitauri, and integrate the Chitauri into their plans. He will also shield their minds from telepathic intrusions, like he has done so with the JL on numerous occasions.

Next, Zatanna will cast a few spells to prepare for the coming battle:

1) One of Zatanna's more uncommon powers: divination. She can meditate or use a special deck of Tarot cards to see into the future. This divination isn't too specific and isn't as powerful as what Madame Xanadu can foresee, but it is simple enough to give her concepts of what will happen and who might be involved.

In this example, she foresees the Trinity War. She sees someone dying, Constantine arguing with Batman/Superman, superheroes fighting each other, and Constantine shaking hands with Lex Luthor. All of this ends up coming true. Now I'm not saying that she will be able to see specific parts about the upcoming battle, but she will be at least able to see who is involved and have a general idea of what will happen. This gives us the advantage of having "basic knowledge" on your team and will allow us to better prepare for the fight. Due to the telepathic link, Zatanna and MMH will relay this information to the Chitauri. Now, my team knows who we will be fighting and will have a general idea of what you are capable of.

2) Zatanna will then enchant the area around us, putting up protective enchantments as she did with her mansion. As stated by the Nightmare Imp, the enchantments aren't just on the mansion itself, but extend to the area beyond the fence, meaning it can affect an area and not just the building. Those who cross into the enchanted area are teleported hundreds of miles away and transformed into a mollusk for an hour. Although BFR isn't allowed, they can still be transformed into a mollusk and teleported away from Zatanna. Realistically, she could cover as much area as she wants with this spell, but to avoid any arguments about size, I would say her enchantment could at least cover the area of land her mansion is on, which is quite large, at least 500 square feet (the size of an average mansion). No one on your team has the magical capability to detect this enchantment, resist it, and/or remove it.

3) Next, Zatanna will enhance the army of 200 Chitauri. She will turn off gravity in the area as she does in the following scan for her and Batman.

This will allow the Chitauri to "fly". Batman adjusted to the lack of gravity quite quickly, so the amount of time we have for our prep should be more than enough to get the Chitauri accustomed to the lack of gravity. Now, I have 200 flying Chitauri. Zatanna and MMH are used to flying so they won't need to adjust to this. Your team, however, will not be able to adjust to the change in gravity, unless they are casual fliers.

Next, I will make the Chitauri invisible and create a decoy army of them as Zatanna does in this scan. Now I have 200 invisible, flying Chitauri and a decoy army of Chitauri that will stay on foot to serve as a distraction. These decoy illusions won't be a physical threat (they cannot cause any physical harm and disappear upon being attacked), but they will distract your team.

Zatanna will then make herself invisible, as she has done on multiple occasions. MMH will turn himself invisible as well.

Since Zatanna can now work at light speed, she will be able to do all of this in a very short amount of time. She can then use the rest of the hour to relax, meditate, and restore her energy.

That's about all I will do with my prep. To recap:

• MMH establishes a psychic link for my team and shield their minds from any telepathic intrusions
• My team will share their powers/abilities with each other
• Zatanna will divine the future to determine who we are facing, she will relay this information to the others, and they will then share information about who we will be facing
• Zatanna will enchant the area, which will cause trespassers to be transformed into a mollusk for an hour
• Zatanna will enchant the Chitauri to be invisible and capable of flight
• Zatanna will create a decoy Chitauri army to serve as a distraction
• Zatanna and MMH will turn invisible as well

Initial Strategy

Once your team spawns, they will only see an army of Chitauri charging towards them. Since my actual team is invisible, the decoy army will be the focus until your team can determine that my team is invisible. But by then, it will be too late.

My real army of Chitauri will begin firing their energy rifles onto your team. You will see the blasts being fired, but you won't see from who or from where, since they are invisible and flying. Since you provided no real durability feats for anyone on your team, these blasts will severely injure or kill anyone on your team.

Martian Manhunter has never been shy about killing and he does not have a strong morality against killing like Batman has. In fact, Black Adam has noted that MMH is different from the rest of the JL in that he would kill him if he had the chance. Against opponents that he does not know, and in situation where he is fighting for his life, he will not hesitate to use lethal force.

Zatanna does not usually kill, but she is certainly not passive about fighting when her life and the lives of others are at stake. She might not necessarily go for the kill, but she will fight with everything she has, as she always does.

Since your team will be under fire from my army of Chitauri, they will be focused on them and not the true threats. Zatanna will cast a spell to freeze your team in place. Again, no one on your team has the magical capability to resist magic on Zatanna's level.

MMH will appear behind them, as they are distracted from my army and frozen in place, and he will phase through your ice field if it is still up even after being frozen. From there, he will phase his hand through your team or just one-shot them with his superhuman strength and speed. You could try and argue that he wouldn't go for the kill right away, but either way, he will have the element of surprise and he has the strength and speed to quickly take out anyone on your team, especially since they will be immobile from Zatanna's spell.

As MMH makes his attack on them, Zatanna will make her attack as well. Zatanna also has the surprise advantage to make the first attack. She also has the light speed perk, making her significantly faster than anyone on your team except Rukia. As I said before, this perk will allow her to assault your team with spell after spell, and even if you do somehow counter, she will be way too fast for you to tag. She would assault your team with magical blasts and lightning:

In the 1st scan, you will notice that Zatanna can strengthen her blasts just by saying so.

In the 4th scan (at the top right), you will notice that her blast can match that of a Green Lantern.

With her light speed, she can fire off dozens of these blasts faster than your team can react.

If for some reason you do counter attack, Zatanna can either teleport herself away or shield herself from the attack:

1st scan: blocks her father's magic

2st scan: blocks an amped Felix Faust and Demon's Three

3rd scan: protects against a massive laser beam

Even without a magical spell to shield her, she is quite durable, having withstood an AoE blast from Power Ring, and tanked a hit from a possessed Wonder Woman.

Initial Counters

That about sums up my opener!

Your move :)

Tag.

@boschepg: bump

@emperorthanos-: my iPad broke while on vacation. Can't post scans until Monday.nif you want to give it to geeky an you can

Ughh I don't want another concede/default win :(

@geekryan: I'm just out until Monday. Can't do much of anything with it broke and crashing

@boschepg: You still have 7 days.

@boschepg: bump?

@emperorthanos-: how many days do we have left

@boschepg: Well you have 1 more day till the deadline for your post.

The debate itself has no deadline.

@emperorthanos-: Ill post within the next 24 then. That makes a difference

@geekryan: Im back so let me try to answer your questions. Im editing it so Ill tag you again when Im done. Just letting you know Im putting one together today

.What are the limits of what he can take in, how does he use it to harm/kill, how big is the AoE, how quickly can he use it? Because in the scan you showed, it says he needs to be exposed to "massive amounts"...

First of all, he needs to be exposed to massive amounts of it. Second of all, how does it make it poisonous? Third of all, I'd like a feat of him absorbing magic. And fourth of all, how would you know to subject him to magic? You don't have basic knowledge and you don't know who Zatanna is...

I dont need Zatanna magic. He would adapt anyways as show below by your request, but Urahara knows magic and as explained in second row third scan, he just needs the base and then become imune after that

He one shotted Ichigo just on pure power. Its not his power that turns on you. Its your own power that you will be deadly at. Askin is just immune to your level

speed of Askin adaptation

speed of it working. Here is Askin licking his own blood and it effect Oetsu instantly

How is the AoE "city level", how quickly can he use it, for how long can he maintain it?

Its pretty wide in berth by feats

as shown below, everything in the zone is shown by statements but everything in the AoE is effected quite immensely

All that blackness in the background is his power. All the whites in contrast in the other cities are not blackened by the skies

This are others in the neighboring cities feeling its power

As long as how long it is maintained, it lasted until he got hurt in the game

Energy magic --> how powerful is it, how quickly can he cast it, how quickly does it travel?

Magic seals --> do they work on anyone/anything, how are they sealed, how quickly can he do this?

Do you have a feat or statement that says her AoE ice field is absolute zero or is that just an assumption? The light speed perk will certainly allow her to perform this attack quickly, but for how long can she maintain it, how big is the AoE? Can she maintain it while frozen in place and under assault?

I can do both

I'm quite familiar with Xavier but you provided no feats for him. All he has is telepathy. MMH is superior to Xavier in telepathy and has a bunch of other powers he can use at the same time while he's "distracted" by Xavier. MMH is also significantly faster than Xavier and any of his attacks will KO him.

Why do I have show feats for Xavier. You know what he can do and I know what he can do. In a debate a scan is useless in that. I dont need Xavier to take MMH, I need him to distract MMH on a level I know he can. In a physical battle MMH would destroy him, but Im protected under absolute zero and death field from Askin and injury share from Shunsui. Im taking out Zatanna then taking out MMH with sheer numbers

If you want scans I can give you scans of mind freeze and him battling Shadow King on the physical realm

As with my X-Men, they are all trained in astral fighting with Xavier. MMH isnt just fighting Xavier, but the other X-Men

rebuttles

Feats of creating clones of others and feats of hiding bodies in shadows?

Sure. Here he is hiding Shunsui and Nanao

Zatanna's main disadvantage in combat is her speed. Since she is human, her reaction speeds are average and she needs to be able to speak her spells backwards (in most cases) in order to cast them. This perk enhances her combat, travel, and reaction times to the speed of light, which is equivalent to roughly 200 thousand miles per second. This will allow Zatanna to speak and cast her spells at light speed, which is significantly faster than the speed of thought

Every Shingami (Urahara, Nanao, Shunsui, Rukia) are supersonic. I have equipped Rukia with light speed as you know. You can cast a spell at light speed. I can release absolute zero at light speed. The only thing that my clones would be taken out by the spells and I win cuz your real team is frozen

Xavier can maybe stall MMH for a few seconds at most before he gets taken out by one of 200 Chitauri, Zatanna, or another attack from MMH.

All Im asking is a few seconds. Four seconds to be correct. 200 Chitauri are taken out quite easily. MMH is distracted with Xavier and 5 X-Men in astral battle

He's invisible. How would he be seen by your team? Even if MMH wasn't invisible, how would your team know to target him right off the bat? How would your magic dude survive long enough under the combined assault of my team to cast the seal spell?

Technically, my Shinigami are invisble cuz they are souls but for battle purposes they are always seen. They see invisible subjects like spirits all the time. Also, Im not focusing on MMH. You only have two real people. The other 200 are dead from AoE

Strategy:

Ive answered all your concerns. Your team is taken out in around 4 to 10 seconds just on AoE stacking with death and cold field

I was just about to offer to take boshes place lol.

T4V if this is still going on

@geekryan: Im done buddy

@boschepg: Okay...Maybe it's because I'm unfamiliar with Bleach and/or maybe it's because you are being vague on purpose, but a lot of what you said is not clear to me. I will do my best to counter what you have said, but I can only do so much with what you have given me...

I dont need Zatanna magic. He would adapt anyways as show below by your request, but Urahara knows magic and as explained in second row third scan, he just needs the base and then become imune after that

He one shotted Ichigo just on pure power. Its not his power that turns on you. Its your own power that you will be deadly at. Askin is just immune to your level

There are so many inconsistencies with this power based on what you have shown. Instead of wasting time debating it, I'll just say that you do not have basic knowledge. You do not know who my team is until the battle starts, and even then, your characters know nothing of mine. Therefore, you have no valid reason to expose Askin to magic during your prep. Your point is moot.

Its pretty wide in berth by feats

as shown below, everything in the zone is shown by statements but everything in the AoE is effected quite immensely

All that blackness in the background is his power. All the whites in contrast in the other cities are not blackened by the skies

This are others in the neighboring cities feeling its power

As long as how long it is maintained, it lasted until he got hurt in the game

The injury sharing aspect of this power is still quite vague based on the limited showings you provided. I would need more context for it.

So my team will feel a little cold and moody? That's it? How does the injury sharing translate to the entire AoE? Are you implying that everyone in that large AoE were also having their injuries shared?

As for the energy and seal magic, I'm not really impressed...It seems to take a few panels to take effect. Furthermore, the scan you provided states that the seal affects the Reiatsu, which isn't something MMH or Zatanna have. Lastly, Zatanna can stop your team with a word at light speed before you can even use it.

I can do both

Now for the ice field, the main component of your strategy...

This would be problematic, but here's the thing: I need to be in the AoE for it to work. As I mentioned in my opener, Zatanna had cast a protective enchantment on the area, causing any intruders within to be transmuted into mollusks. At best, this would mean that my team would be momentarily frozen, while your team would be transmuted into mollusks, assuming we spawn in the same AoE.

It is also highly possible that Zatanna would see this strategy coming, since she was able to see quite a few important elements of the future by using her divination magic, and this is your main strategy for the battle, making it quite relevant and important. If that were the case, she could shield herself and MMH could start off intangible.

Why do I have show feats for Xavier. You know what he can do and I know what he can do. In a debate a scan is useless in that. I dont need Xavier to take MMH, I need him to distract MMH on a level I know he can. In a physical battle MMH would destroy him, but Im protected under absolute zero and death field from Askin and injury share from Shunsui. Im taking out Zatanna then taking out MMH with sheer numbers

You can't assume people know everything about all of your characters. You still need to provide feats for your characters in any debate. Xavier is a sitting duck, who can be taken out in a second by Zatanna, MMH, or one of my 200 Chitauri.

Sure. Here he is hiding Shunsui and Nanao

Fair enough, but where do the clones you speak of come from? Still didn't get any feats for that part. You didn't even explain much about these clones...

Every Shingami (Urahara, Nanao, Shunsui, Rukia) are supersonic. I have equipped Rukia with light speed as you know. You can cast a spell at light speed. I can release absolute zero at light speed. The only thing that my clones would be taken out by the spells and I win cuz your real team is frozen

Can you show that then? Because you provided no feats of physical stats for any of your characters, which means that they have minimum strength, speed, durability, etc. They can be one-shotted by even a Chitauri blast.

All Im asking is a few seconds. Four seconds to be correct. 200 Chitauri are taken out quite easily. MMH is distracted with Xavier and 5 X-Men in astral battle

How exactly are they being taken out?

As I said before, Xavier and the 5 X-Men are sitting ducks while in the astral plane, making them vulnerable to attack from Zatanna, MMH, or my Chitauri. It's not even in character for Xavier to immediately pull the X-Men into the Astral Plane, so by the time the battle starts and he does that, he'll already be tagged and killed.

Technically, my Shinigami are invisble cuz they are souls but for battle purposes they are always seen. They see invisible subjects like spirits all the time. Also, Im not focusing on MMH. You only have two real people. The other 200 are dead from AoE

What? Just because they can see spirits doesn't mean they can see my invisible team...

You have no reason to immediately focus on MMH. You do not have any knowledge on my team. All you will see are a decoy magic army of 200 Chitauri, and then the real army will be invisible and flying as they start shooting at you. Zatanna and MMH will be invisible as well. Even if you COULD see my team, why would you target the one human girl at the back when you are being confronted by a green alien and 200 other aliens?

Ive answered all your concerns. Your team is taken out in around 4 to 10 seconds just on AoE stacking with death and cold field

You actually failed to answer many of my concerns. You only answered the ones that suit you.

Let's assume your cold field and Zatanna's protective enchantment and her first spell go off at the same time. Your team is frozen in place and transformed into a mollusk, and my team is momentarily frozen. As soon as my spells take effect, yours will end, my team is unfrozen, and we destroy your team.

@geekryan:

I will reply to this backwards

Lets assume your cold field and Zatanna's protective enchantment and her first spell go off at the same time

That is logical since we both have light speed perks on said characters

Your team is frozen in place and transformed into a mollusk and my team is momentarily frozen. As soon as my spells take effect yours will end, my team is unfrozen and we destroy your team

No. Ive mentioned before but maybe it was missed, my team has the No Friendly Fire perk, thus none of my attacks effect my team. My AoE attacks: Rukia cold field, Shunsui injury share, Askin' death field, Urahara matter manipulation and none will effect me in the slightest, but they effect you

Thus if both Zatanna and Rukia set off their light speed attack at the same time, which you have stated, you have mollusked my clones, you are frozen and my team is not. By the battle mechanics in which you have described, I pretty much win on incap since you and your team are frozen and I am not

You have no reason to immediately focus on MMH. You do not have any knowledge on my team. All you will see are a decoy magic army and 200 Chitauri, and then the real army will be invisible and flying as they start shooting at you. Zatanna and MMH will be invisible as well. Even if you could see my team, why would you target the human girl at the back when you are being confronted by a green alien and 200 other aliens?

Its a moot point, but I would target the human girl cuz like you said she has the light speed perk and her attack would be fired first and just set of a magical attack thus she has mystical energy which Shinigami detect

How many invisible people does not matter. You are invisible going into an AoE. You are invisible but the cold field, death field, injury share, and matter manip would obliterate you anyways into dust along with the other stacked AoEs even if you could survive the cold field AoE. I don't have to target anything cuz my attacks are Areas of Effect encompassing the entire area

As I said before, Xavier and the 5 X-Men are sitting ducks while in the astral plane, making them vulnerable to attack from Zatanna. MMH or my Chitauri. Its not even in character to immediately pull the X-Men into the Astral Plane, so by the time the battle starts and he does that, he'll already be tagged and killed

You just stated that with perk that Zatanna's attack is the fastest on the board on your team to your battle mechanics which Im not disputing. How are they in astral battle when you stated and I agreed that Zatanna's magic would turn my clones into mollusk while your team is frozen from cold field AoE?

With my team Im showing how many different ways Im defeating you as all the AoE are stacked. I was giving you the battle purpose of Xavier's TP and the X-Men. I need Xavier to stall and he has done so even against the Phoenix Force since you wanted scans...twice

Xavier is only 2 points cuz he can only do telepathy. MMH is 6 points not cuz his TP is three times stronger, but cuz he can do more things like shapeshift, matter density, and strength. Im asking Xaiver to do what he done against the Phoenix force itself just to stall time. If Xavier can stall vs the Phoenix Force by feats, than he can stall MMH even if he did get past the cold field and then ensuing AoE attacks

Can you show that then? Because your provided no feats of physical stats for any of your characters which means that they have minimum strength, speed, durability, etc. They can be one-shotted by even a Chitauri blast.

I only post physical stats when it is relevant for my characters in battle. Since I was more relying on their powers and the light speed perk, I didn't find a need to post supersonic speed. But since you requested

This Gin explaining to Ichigo that his attack was 500 times the speed of sound. Though it was hyperbole, in context the reader knows it was fast since everyone was established to be supersonic

This is Ichigo not knowing Rukia's brother even attacked him. Ichigo was not supersonic at this scan Ichigo did not know if he was attacked in front or back and didn't even see Byakuya draw his sword

These are two different battle scenes were speed leaves after image even though they feel the attack

I can do this forever but I don't want to clog the post. Obviously there are different levels of their supersonic speed, if you want to get technical what feats do the Chitauri have that beats Shinigami base speed

If you want something more direct, this is Shunsui dodging multiple energy attacks. Its only 3 minutes long

Fair enough, but where d the clones you speak of come from? Still didn't get any feats for that part. You didn't even explain much about these clones...

I did not explain cuz they are a clone and have the power of the original. Its probably better to post another video since there is a lot of context to your question related to the gigai (clone) If you go to the 2:50 minute mark Urahara explains it since he created them

Now for the ice field... the main component to your strategy...

This would be problematic but here's the thing: I need to be in the AoE for it to work. As mentioned in my opener, Zatanna had cast a protective enchantment on the area causing any intruders within the area to be transmuted into mollusks. At best, this would mean that my team would be momentarily frozen, while your team would be transmuted into mollusks, assuming we spawn in the some AoE.

As stated in the 2nd reply above, according to your battle mechanics both teams fire at light speed. Your team gets frozen is a given. You transmute my clones causing my real people to come out and start their AoE

Also, your strategy for your prep is outside your prep zone. You are talking about prep the battlefield with your enchantment in which is a perk you do not have. You have basic one hour prep just like me.

The battlefield is pretty vague on distance of spawn but it is usually, almost battle law, that on a battle we spawn at the same time

It is also highly possible that Zatanna would see this strategy coming since she was able to see quite a few important elements of the future by using her divination magic and this is your main strategy for the battle, making it quite relevant and important. If that were the case she could shield herself and MMH could start off intangible

She could see it, but as you stated in her opener, her divination is very vague and only sees aspects of the future.

Also, most importantly, so are you protecting your team with shields at light speed or trying to cast your mollusks spell? You cant do both thus why I place how more of my team attacks you as a whole.

Also, in my prep I made magic poisonous to your team and my team is unaffected by it by my No Friendly Fire perk.

I also have to established better prepper who thinks of thousands of scenarios ahead and preps for it with Urahara

To be honest, your whole line of thinking here causes a lot of problems as stated. Is Zatanna using her shields to protect or is she casting an offensive spell? You cast a spell Zatanna dies cuz of Askin making magic poisonous

So my team will feel a little cold and moody? That's it?

No. As per scans all your molecules are frozen and you get blown to frozen dust

How does your injury sharing translate to the entire AoE? Are you implying that everyone in that large AoE were also having their injuries shared

That is how the power is described and why Shunsui does not use it when friends are in the area. In fact, when he unleashed it on the scan provided, he actually had to go to another city were no one was at to not effect them. As stated, with my No Friendly Fire perk, I have no restrictions with such an AoE.

Also on the Shunsui scan, Shunsui entered the AoE with injury and it was instantaneously placed on Baro

There are so many inconsistencies with this power based on what you have shown. Instead of wasting time debating it, Ill just say that you do not have basic knowledge. You do not know wo my team is until the battle starts and even then, your characters know nothing of mine. Therefore, you have no valid reason to expose Askin to magic during your prep. Your point is moot

Its not moot. It would have been defended by Urahara. Since Askin can eliminate magic and has made basic magical energy in reiatsu poisonous in multiple battles he went across and it usually ended in a one shot for Askin

Okay...Maybe it's because Im unfamiliar with Bleach and/or maybe its because you are being vague on purpose, but a lot of what you said is not clear to me.

I was not trying to be vague on purpose. I was trying to post something before the time limit cuz my ipad broke as I informed both you and the OP. I actually quoted every single question from your post and answered it which should clear everything

CONCLUSION:

• We both have people with light speed attack but you want Zatanna to shield both your team from cold field and use mollusks divination (which I can teleport back cuz of Urahara) which I find highly unlikely if not impossible
• You think absolute zero just makes people cold when it is established to stop molecules and as scan showed, to dust, which is a low ball tactic
• You are also low balling my prep since I have a prep master in Urahara to properly utilize my teams power but your team can properly prep with vague divination as said by you
• I have shown Xavier can stall Phoenix to stall MMH
• I just think you are over extending the capabilities on your team in the amount of time established with everything coming at you.

You have invisible Chitauri and clones that all get taken out by cold field, but if you shield cold field with magic, than Zatanna gets taken out due to Askin/ Shunsui injury share

While I have clones and multiple AoEs that only effect your team while protected in shadow dimension.

There are really only two outcomes:

As you stated, your team gets frozen my clones get turned into mollusks leaving my real team protected

or you shield the cold field which unleashes Askin's death field on magic and the inury share takes out everyone else

T4V...wish Zatana was being used better here

@geekryan: Im done now. You can close

@boschepg: Alright.

I'm restricted because of the rules. No BFR, no reality warping, no time manipulation, etc.

I think the statement itself kind of places your characterization of Zatanna in a negative light since its an open critique of you using her and may effect votes. I think you are doing fine though but I would have asked for it to be deleted, but you do you. When you place your closing post then tag the OP for votes

@boschepg: It doesn’t bother me much. Anyone who is familiar with Zatanna knows I am using her as well as I can given the rules of the tournament.

@boschepg: He does it a lot it really adds nothing and is just annoying imo

@thenewguysnm1: You mean Haoalchemist does this alot?

yes

Good to know. Thanks

@boschepg: To make it easier for the readers, my initial comments have quotation marks and italics, and what Bosche responded is quoted underneath. My response is under that.

"Your team is frozen in place and transformed into a mollusk and my team is momentarily frozen. As soon as my spells take effect yours will end, my team is unfrozen and we destroy your team"

No. Ive mentioned before but maybe it was missed, my team has the No Friendly Fire perk, thus none of my attacks effect my team. My AoE attacks: Rukia cold field, Shunsui injury share, Askin' death field, Urahara matter manipulation and none will effect me in the slightest, but they effect you

Thus if both Zatanna and Rukia set off their light speed attack at the same time, which you have stated, you have mollusked my clones, you are frozen and my team is not. By the battle mechanics in which you have described, I pretty much win on incap since you and your team are frozen and I am not

You misunderstand. I meant that your team is frozen in place due to Zatanna's spell, not your cold field. The second part of your statement is also wrong, but I will address that shortly.

"You have no reason to immediately focus on MMH. You do not have any knowledge on my team. All you will see are a decoy magic army and 200 Chitauri, and then the real army will be invisible and flying as they start shooting at you. Zatanna and MMH will be invisible as well. Even if you could see my team, why would you target the human girl at the back when you are being confronted by a green alien and 200 other aliens?"

Its a moot point, but I would target the human girl cuz like you said she has the light speed perk and her attack would be fired first and just set of a magical attack thus she has mystical energy which Shinigami detect

You don't know what perks I have... For all you know, Zatanna's speed could be baseline. You have no knowledge of anyone on my team.

One vague statement of "more or less" feeling a specific person's Reiatsu means nothing. First of all, this doesn't necessarily apply to a combat situation. Second of all, Shinigami could have possibly only detected Ichigo's Reiatsu due to them knowing each other. Third of all, Reiatsu doesn't necessarily translate to Zatanna's magic, since it is spiritual energy and is not the same. Lastly, she will be invisible, as I have stated multiple times.

"As I said before, Xavier and the 5 X-Men are sitting ducks while in the astral plane, making them vulnerable to attack from Zatanna. MMH or my Chitauri. Its not even in character to immediately pull the X-Men into the Astral Plane, so by the time the battle starts and he does that, he'll already be tagged and killed"

You just stated that with perk that Zatanna's attack is the fastest on the board on your team to your battle mechanics which Im not disputing. How are they in astral battle when you stated and I agreed that Zatanna's magic would turn my clones into mollusk while your team is frozen from cold field AoE?

With my team Im showing how many different ways Im defeating you as all the AoE are stacked. I was giving you the battle purpose of Xavier's TP and the X-Men. I need Xavier to stall and he has done so even against the Phoenix Force since you wanted scans...twice

Xavier is only 2 points cuz he can only do telepathy. MMH is 6 points not cuz his TP is three times stronger, but cuz he can do more things like shapeshift, matter density, and strength. Im asking Xaiver to do what he done against the Phoenix force itself just to stall time. If Xavier can stall vs the Phoenix Force by feats, than he can stall MMH even if he did get past the cold field and then ensuing AoE attacks

I wasn't agreeing with you, I was going along with what you said about them being in an astral battle.

It's extremely debatable how MMH and Xavier's telepathy match up. Most people on CV would favour MMH. But the thing is, while Xavier is "stalling" MMH, he is still vulnerable to attack by Zatanna, the Chitauri, or even a simultaneous attack from MMH, since he can use more than one power at once. This stalling would last no more than a second, even with the X-Men helping Xavier. Their physical bodies would be destroyed, and you lose 6 people.

"Can you show that then? Because your provided no feats of physical stats for any of your characters which means that they have minimum strength, speed, durability, etc. They can be one-shotted by even a Chitauri blast."

I only post physical stats when it is relevant for my characters in battle. Since I was more relying on their powers and the light speed perk, I didn't find a need to post supersonic speed. But since you requested

This Gin explaining to Ichigo that his attack was 500 times the speed of sound. Though it was hyperbole, in context the reader knows it was fast since everyone was established to be supersonic

This is Ichigo not knowing Rukia's brother even attacked him. Ichigo was not supersonic at this scan Ichigo did not know if he was attacked in front or back and didn't even see Byakuya draw his sword

These are two different battle scenes were speed leaves after image even though they feel the attack

I can do this forever but I don't want to clog the post. Obviously there are different levels of their supersonic speed, if you want to get technical what feats do the Chitauri have that beats Shinigami base speed

If you want something more direct, this is Shunsui dodging multiple energy attacks. Its only 3 minutes long

Loading Video...

Not covering physical stats in a battle puts your characters at the very minimum level of stats, which makes them slow, weak, and able to be one-shotted.

Regardless, the physical stats of your team are nothing compared to MMH and Zatanna. You also only provided speed feats, which does put them above the Chitauri, but I have a decoy army of 200 Chitauri and a flying/invisible army of 200 Chitauri. With your strategy in mind, your team are sitting ducks and will be obliterated by an assault from 200 Chitauri.

"Fair enough, but where did the clones you speak of come from? Still didn't get any feats for that part. You didn't even explain much about these clones..."

I did not explain cuz they are a clone and have the power of the original. Its probably better to post another video since there is a lot of context to your question related to the gigai (clone) If you go to the 2:50 minute mark Urahara explains it since he created them

I'm very glad you provided a video of these so-called "clones", because it makes debunking it so much easier now...

1) The portable gigai is an object, a piece of gear. Unless it is standard for your character, you cannot use it.

2) The only "clone" it makes is of Urahara, so it can't be used for your entire team.

3) There is no proof or feat that more than one can be used at once

4) Urahara (at 3:45) even says he made it himself and that it is difficult to control

5) He also says that no one but him could use it effectively

6) They are not clones, but decoys. They do not have the same stats or powers as the original. Urahara replaced himself with it before he was struck.

All of these points render your clones argument completely moot. You do not have any clones at all.

"Now for the ice field... the main component to your strategy...

This would be problematic but here's the thing: I need to be in the AoE for it to work. As mentioned in my opener, Zatanna had cast a protective enchantment on the area causing any intruders within the area to be transmuted into mollusks. At best, this would mean that my team would be momentarily frozen, while your team would be transmuted into mollusks, assuming we spawn in the some AoE."

As stated in the 2nd reply above, according to your battle mechanics both teams fire at light speed. Your team gets frozen is a given. You transmute my clones causing my real people to come out and start their AoE

Also, your strategy for your prep is outside your prep zone. You are talking about prep the battlefield with your enchantment in which is a perk you do not have. You have basic one hour prep just like me.

The battlefield is pretty vague on distance of spawn but it is usually, almost battle law, that on a battle we spawn at the same time

You have no clones.

All prep takes place on the battlefield, unless you got the prep anywhere perks. Since we both have prep on the battlefield, when the battle begins, both of our preps merge into the battlefield, which includes my protective enchantment. These are the typical rules for CaVs, tournaments, etc. This means that your team will be within the area of my enchantment, thus turning your team into mollusks. Since you do not have any real clones, and you haven't proved you can hide your entire team in the shadows, your team gets incapped.

"It is also highly possible that Zatanna would see this strategy coming since she was able to see quite a few important elements of the future by using her divination magic and this is your main strategy for the battle, making it quite relevant and important. If that were the case she could shield herself and MMH could start off intangible"

She could see it, but as you stated in her opener, her divination is very vague and only sees aspects of the future.

Also, most importantly, so are you protecting your team with shields at light speed or trying to cast your mollusks spell? You cant do both thus why I place how more of my team attacks you as a whole.

Also, in my prep I made magic poisonous to your team and my team is unaffected by it by my No Friendly Fire perk.

I also have to established better prepper who thinks of thousands of scenarios ahead and preps for it with Urahara

To be honest, your whole line of thinking here causes a lot of problems as stated. Is Zatanna using her shields to protect or is she casting an offensive spell? You cast a spell Zatanna dies cuz of Askin making magic poisonous

Yes, she sees aspects of the future. In your case, your cold field is your main element of your strategy and your claim to victory, so it is very possible Zatanna would see this.

I can do both actually, because the protective enchantment that turns your team into mollusks was placed during my prep. This will result in your team being transformed as the battle begins, which will then stop my team from being frozen by your cold field. Zatanna then has free reign to cast spell after spell (at light speed) to assault your team or protect her own.

I've said this like twice now but it seems I need to repeat myself: you do not have any knowledge on my team. You have no reason to expose Askin to magic because you do not know that my team has any magic-users. In your previous fight in the first round, you did not expose Askin to magic because your opponents had no magic-users. Once the battle starts and your team figures out Zatanna is a magic-user, it will be too late for you to expose Askin to magic and make it poisonous to Zatanna. You have not shown that Askin can be exposed to multiple things at once and make them all poisonous, so you couldn't even just expose him to everything in order to try and account for all situations.

You can have the best prep in all of fiction, but if you do not know who my team is and you do not have any knowledge, you can't do anything to specifically counter my team. In our specific situation, this is the case.

"How does your injury sharing translate to the entire AoE? Are you implying that everyone in that large AoE were also having their injuries shared"

That is how the power is described and why Shunsui does not use it when friends are in the area. In fact, when he unleashed it on the scan provided, he actually had to go to another city were no one was at to not effect them. As stated, with my No Friendly Fire perk, I have no restrictions with such an AoE.

Also on the Shunsui scan, Shunsui entered the AoE with injury and it was instantaneously placed on Baro

Where is it described as such? You provided like one feat/scan of this injury sharing.

CONCLUSION:

• We both have people with light speed attack but you want Zatanna to shield both your team from cold field and use mollusks divination (which I can teleport back cuz of Urahara) which I find highly unlikely if not impossible

I disputed this already. The protective enchantment that transforms your team into mollusks was cast during my prep. The divination also took place during my prep.

• You think absolute zero just makes people cold when it is established to stop molecules and as scan showed, to dust, which is a low ball tactic

I wasn't referring to the cold field, I was referring to this

• You are also low balling my prep since I have a prep master in Urahara to properly utilize my teams power but your team can properly prep with vague divination as said by you

Funny how you say you have a prep master but only bring up this "master prep" in your last post, and you don't even provide any specifics or details about it.

• I have shown Xavier can stall Phoenix to stall MMH

Xavier, with all his power, can momentarily stall an inexperienced Cyclops with the Phoenix Force. Xavier will be an open target as he is stalling MMH and will get quickly obliterated by Zatanna or the 200 Chitauri.

• I just think you are over extending the capabilities on your team in the amount of time established with everything coming at you.

I completely disagree.

You have invisible Chitauri and clones that all get taken out by cold field, but if you shield cold field with magic, than Zatanna gets taken out due to Askin/ Shunsui injury share

Your cold field gets stopped immediately because you get transmuted.

While I have clones and multiple AoEs that only effect your team while protected in shadow dimension.

You don't actually have any clones, and your AoEs won't take place since you will all be transformed. You also didn't show that you can hide and protect multiple people in the shadows, and if they are hiding, they won't be able to attack or use any of these AoE fields.

There are really only two outcomes:

As you stated, your team gets frozen my clones get turned into mollusks leaving my real team protected

or you shield the cold field which unleashes Askin's death field on magic and the inury share takes out everyone else

You have no real clones, Askin has no reason to expose himself to magic since you do not have any knowledge that my team possesses a magic-user, and the injury share gets negated when you are transformed and can't even attack.

@emperorthanos-: done. You can open for votes.

@geekryan: that's three each. ready for votes?

@boschepg: yup! It was a pleasure debating with you, and best of luck!

@higherpower: @haoalchemist: @thenewguysnm1: @emperorthanos-: @beatboks1

ready for votes

@fetts@oceanmaster21@warlockmage could you give this a look and give it a breakdown with a vote

@boschepg: sure I have one for you before night is up

@thenewguysnm1: you're just mad you got murked and didn't make it to the final 😂😂

Giving my vote to geeky. The whole light speed argument convinced me that reaction time would be an issue.

Are you an idiot?! You do know my match is ongoing lol i have only made my opener,nobody is getting "Murked"

Next time do your research,

are you guys talking about our battle or your battle?

@boschepg: has my vote, they demonstrated versatility, better layout, better plan of action, and just over great debating so he the champ.

Votes needed and appreciated :)