• 42 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for emperorthanos-
#1 Edited by EmperorThanos- (15620 posts) - - Show Bio

It's time for the finals, some familiar faces are back after being absent for 2 editions while he have atleast one new face.

@chimeroid

  • Takion 8
  • Waterhand Aquaman 3
  • Trauma 1
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Perks

  • Extra character points 5
  • An hour of prep - 1
  • Mind/Soul Immunity - 7
  • Invisibility (Aquaman) - 2
No Caption Provided

@beatboks1

Characters:

  • Rogue 2
  • Dark Nebula 5
  • Blue Superman 3
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Perks

  • 1 hr prep 1
  • Perfect team work 5
  • Light speed (Dark Nebula) 7
  • 2x Spider sense (Rogue Blue supes)
No Caption Provided

@kevd4wg

Characters

  1. Ego 12
  2. Ultimate Iron Man 1
  3. MCU Doctor Strange 1
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Perks

  • 2 extra character points X 2 (5)
  • Invisibility - Ego (2)
  • Mind Link (2)
  • 1 hour of prep (1)

Rules

  1. Win by Death, Incap or KO.
  2. Standard Gear.
  3. Time Jumping, remnants, speeding up ones own time is allowed. Other forms of time manip is banned.
  4. No speed steal
  5. No BFR.
  6. No reality warping
  7. No Power Copying/stealing.
  8. No Summons, constructs or any other fodder stronger than 616 Bleeding Edge Iron Man.
  9. Summons are limited to 200
  10. Cloning is limited to 10

Voting Rules:

  1. Vote for the better debater
  2. Do not vote on which character you think you will win
  3. Give reasoning to your vote.
  4. I will count the total votes
  5. If I feel a vote is unjustified or biased I will not count it.

Battle ground

Indestructible planet inside a Solar System like others, with no other people on it except for the fighters.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for chimeroid
#2 Edited by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

This shit is going to be a lot of fun :)

Avatar image for blackpantherisb
#3 Posted by blackpantherisb (6636 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

Avatar image for xlr87t3
#4 Posted by XLR87T3 (9450 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag me

Avatar image for chronicplane
#6 Posted by Chronicplane (8287 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

Avatar image for kevd4wg
#7 Posted by Kevd4wg (11796 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Alright, that sounds good

This should be fun

Online
Avatar image for chimeroid
#8 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: here we go again. Only need zets (mylittlefaciest) to make this old home week.

@kevd4wg

Nice to see a new face.

I'm currently on a 3 hr layover at kuala lumpur airport on my way to a week off in Phuket with my lovely wife while my inlaws take care of the kids. Give me a day or so to get over the jet lag and I'll get into this. Brought my new laptop and the hard drive with most of my scans (just no comics to extract more from) so I should be golden

Feels like you and I have done this several times before. I just can't put my finger on it :)

Avatar image for thenewguysnm1
#9 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7483 posts) - - Show Bio

Losing to one of the finalists really puts thing into perspective.

Anyway going by character and perk lineups there can only be 1 winner

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#14 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (17153 posts) - - Show Bio

I still wonder why ET said Kev gets first dibs on picks when he made the sign ups.

Also T4V

Avatar image for xlr87t3
#15 Posted by XLR87T3 (9450 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: If you don't mind me asking, what are you doing all the way in Malaysia and Thailand? Is it vacation?

Avatar image for emperorthanos-
#16 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15620 posts) - - Show Bio

I still wonder why ET said Kev gets first dibs on picks when he made the sign ups.

Also T4V

Cause he voted on the most matches.

Avatar image for xlr87t3
#18 Edited by XLR87T3 (9450 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: OMG I wish I was there with you! There's nothing more endearing than being in a fancy hotel in another country, and on top of that you got your whole family with you as well

Avatar image for emperorthanos-
#19 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15620 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for beatboks1
#21 Posted by beatboks1 (9764 posts) - - Show Bio

Rinse and repeat I guess

Dark Nebula.

Basically he's the result of two life forces after death merged into one body. One of those life forces was an alien warlard called Cerellus who was a powerful TP/TKer. The other an Astronaut with the United Space Industries who just happened to be descended from witches. The result was a merger of the powers of both. The Psionic powers of Cerellus and the Dark Fire that Mark Medula didn't know was his birthright.

Giving him the powers of TP, TK, and a power called dark fire that has numerous effects

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

origin and descendancy

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

He can hold together a bridge while lifting traffic off it while TK rebinding it's molecules.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Examples of his TP. healing the minds of others

Feats for Cerellus are also feats for DN as well as the alien that is half of DN.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

His darkfire

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

his dark fire allows him to warp time and space (mostly but no longer completely against the rules), gives him a powerful blast and a degree of power over souls.

the last power that DN has

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

is that being "past the veil of death" makes him immortal (at least damn hard to kill)

Blue Superman

First off Blue Supes isn't actually physical unless he tries to be or focuses on it. so for the most part is immune to attacks made on a physical level.

then there is his astounding speed and perception

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

A microsecond is like hrs to Blue Supes. He's so fast he beats the Flash to places and even Wally West has trouble seeing him. faster than light.

he can energy manipulate

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Matter manipulate

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Rogue

Yes that's right the Xman who can absorb and copy the powers of whoever touches her skin. Bringing a power copier into a tourney where the rules prohibit power copying might seem a little stupid. fortunately powers aren't the only think she can copy/absorb she also absorbs psyche, memories, skills.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

What is also not as well known is the template of everyone she has ever copied exists within her.

No Caption Provided
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

every power and psychie she has ever absorbed still exists within her. Sage was able to jumpstart her mutant ability to access all these during extreme xmen 13.

Prep

pretty much the same as last round.

1. Dark Nebula starts to use TP to allow my team to mind link our team (yes I know we've seen this in round 1 and 2)

2. During this he sees all about the templates and powers/psyches etc contained in Rogue. He uses his TP not to pring forth any of these powers but to draw out three of the Psyches. In Uncanny Avengers 21 Rogue copied ALL the Avengers and Xmen to assist Sentry fighting a Celestial. Clearly this would break the amping rules. However amongst those she copied in that issue were Dr Strange, Dr Doom, Ironman and Hank Pym. Three of the greatest scientific minds on the planet and two of the greatest magical minds.

No Caption Provided
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

3. DN uses he TP with which he was able to heal the mental damages of a space station full of astronauts and brings these Psyches/memories to the fore so that Rogue can use these during our remaining prep. Lets for the sake of argument say that it takes him 15 minutes to achieve this (allowing longer than last round as I'm pulling the psionic template of an additional character and a LOT of knowledge). this leaves me 45 minutes with the intellect of Strange+Doom+Stark+ pym and two team mates who can operate at light speed (DN courtesy of perk) and MFTL (Blue supes). One has TK that can do quite a bit and one can matter an energy manipulate.

4. Using Pym's knowledge they will have access to pym particles and with Doom and Strange access to their knowledge of magic

5. they will also build personal teleporters for all three plus a remote to control them given to Blue Supes

6. Once done Rogue will use the pym particles to shrink my team to atomic size (electron level not microverse) before my team enters battle

7. Rogue will then use the magic knowledge of Strange and Doom to cast spells to hide my team from the psi of Ego and the cosmic awareness of Takion. Also cast spells to create simulacrums for them to detect.

Battle opening moves

As we will enter Battle in a state that makes us difficult to notice by my adversaries (obviously Takion and Ego have senses far beyond my previous opponents) Using spider sense and the speed of Blue supes plus with the remotes to control the personal teleporters my team will port to where there is no danger with Supermans MFTL speed every time he senses danger

Just like last round DN will use his ability to bend time and space to summon time remnants (as they are the only things allowed under the rules for Time manipulation).

so similar to last round DN is then going to create a total of 10 time remnants of my as per the limitation on clones (and the fact that time remnant are being treated as clones in this round). These time remnants will include

3 x Dark Nebula

3 x Blue Superman

4 rogues from specific points in her time line.

Rogue 1

No Caption Provided

Juggernaut Rogue

No Caption Provided

Thor Rogue

The from X-treme Xmen 13 who wielded the powers of all the Xmen and Magneto (as per scans above).

as well as the rogue from when she copied the Avengers

My adversaries can now see these clones, and sense the simulacrums . My Three DN's and Thor commence an attack of Dark fire AOE and God-blast on my opponents, all while being shielded Juggernaut's shields (which with the magical knowledge of Strange and Doom plus Thor (who's already cut off the power source of Cyttorak from Juggs so should be quite capable of manipulating it when Juggs allows it.

Avatar image for emperorthanos-
#24 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15620 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for jacthripper
#25 Edited by Jacthripper (14427 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

Avatar image for chimeroid
#26 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for kevd4wg
#27 Posted by Kevd4wg (11796 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: I can make it, I’ve been busy lately but I have free time coming up in a couple of days

Online
Avatar image for kevd4wg
#28 Posted by Kevd4wg (11796 posts) - - Show Bio

Ego

No Caption Provided

Introduction

Here is Ego's official Bio

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Powers

  • Superhuman Durability
  • Superhuman Speed
  • Superhuman Regeneration
  • Superhuman Speed
  • Gravity Manipulation
  • Surface Manipulation
  • Anitbodies
  • Energy Blasts
  • Tentacles
  • Cannons

Killing both teams

Ego has so many different ways of killing both teams, it's highly unlikely that all methods can be stops. He has multiple methods of giving insane damage output, likely enough to put your team down.

Eye Beams

The first way that Ego can casually kill your team is through his massive and powerful eye beams. Using them he can casually planet bust

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Maximum Security; Dangerous Planet

Now this is already pretty insane damage output, especially considering how casually it was done, but Ego can hit even harder if he wants.

Astonishing Thor #5
Astonishing Thor #5

Granted he does use his mouth too, but that's basically the same thing. In this scan he also one-shots another living planet, who is superior in durability to a normal planet proving he can hit hard as shit, likely enough to pick up some one-shots. This will also destroy anything you brought to the battlefield with you like for instance fodder or tech.

Cannons

The next method Ego has to casually put down your team is his comet cannons he can shoot out. These things are the size of continents and will destroy anything that the energy blast leaves behind

Thanos; A God up There Listening #2
Thanos; A God up There Listening #2

This will further remove anything you have and if anything survived because it's resilient to energy based attacks now it will be screwed over by blunt-force.

Tentacles

Something I left just for the finals are Ego's most broken method of damage, tentacles. Take for instance Thanos: A God up There Listening #2 where Ego easily draws Thanos in, a legit teambuster, as well as his fodder and completely incapacitates them with his tentacles very casually.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

So this is yet another option

Durability

Simply put your team cannot put Ego down without pulling out insane stuff, which should be pretty difficult for your team to replicate.

Thanos; A God Up There #6
Thanos; A God Up There #6

Now here Ego was hurt by a blast that could "end the stars themselves" While he was hurt by it he could continue to fight and to make it even more impressive, the blast wasn't fired at his more durable exterior, but inside his body, right near his core. This makes this far, far more impressive and shows he can tank pretty much anything thrown at him energy wise. And as for blunt-force...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Astonishing Thor #5

Here Ego tanks another living planet biting down on him and he keeps going without a problem. It's going to be pretty difficult to exert the level of blunt-force or piercing damage necessary to replicate this, but Ego shrugged it off. Now, you could argue a strategy of getting on Ego, but it's worth noting that Ego can create constructs to defend himself, 200 to be exact. These constructs should cap out just around Bleeding Edge Iron Man level such as this guy who could give Thor a decent fight, though was quickly overwhelmed.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Thor #227

There's more I can add onto if you pursue a strategy of going inside of Ego, but that should be enough for now.

Ultimate Iron Man

No Caption Provided

Introduction

Blessed and cursed with extraordinary genius, Tony Stark is the son of inventor and defense contractor Howard Stark, and geneticist & educator Maria Stark. The Starks were developing a biological personal armor coating when a lab accident with a regenerative virus fatally infected Maria. The virus mutated her unborn child, Tony, growing additional neural tissue throughout his body which augmented his intelligence while causing chronic pain. Maria died, but Howard saved Tony by coating him in their bacterial bio-armor, which consumed ordinary skin but not Tony's constantly regenerating neural flesh. Business rival Zebediah Stane married Howard's scheming ex-wife Loni, with whom he stole Stark's company, and spent years trying to seize the bio-armor. As a teenager, Tony befriended fellow prep school student Jim Rhodes and began developing his own "Iron Man" armor technology. Becoming a wealthy celebrity and science prodigy, young Tony founded multi-billion dollar design and manufacturing corporation Stark International. He also became an infamous playboy, alcoholic, and womanizer, suffering from recurring depression and secretly learning he was dying from an inoperable brain tumour.

Credit Marvel Universe Wiki

Powers

  • Superhuman Strength
  • Superhuman Speed
  • Superhuman Durability
  • Superhuman Intelligence
  • Superhuman Healing
  • Energy
  • Technopathy
  • Technomorphing
  • Shields
  • Flight

Shields and Destructive output

Now since Ultimate Iron Man isn't really a threat on his own in this battle, I'll skip that and go straight into why I picked him. First Tony has his shields, which are quite durable.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Ultimates #11

Here Iron Man's shields withstand an explosion that covered over 100 square miles and wiped out all of shield's weaponry, such as their helicarriers. You can tell from the explosion that it's huge, I would say around Island level at least. While this isn't going to defend against everything or even a lot, having one of these shields around Ego's brain, which you wouldn't know about anyway, will help him stay safe.

Now, from what I've seen, your team isn't going to be bringing tech to the battlefield so I will be skipping that section as it's a bit longwinded. However, instead I'll post some of Iron Man's destructive feats since it might actually be relevant in case someone is a glass canon. For instance, he was able to one-shot an entire castle/fortress

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Ultimate Comics: Armor Wars #2

So I think he should be able to do major damage to Zatanna if he gets the chance.

MCU Strange

No Caption Provided

Introduction

Stephen Vincent Strange M.D., Ph.D was a powerful sorcerer and a leading member of the Masters of the Mystic Arts. Originally a brilliant and renowned yet arrogant neurosurgeon, Strange suffered a car accident that had resulted in his hands being crippled. When all Western medicine failed to restore his hands, Strange embarked on a journey that led him to the Masters of the Mystic Arts as well as the discovery of magic and alternate dimensions, being trained by the Ancient One, Karl Mordo and Wong. Though his focus was healing his hands, Strange learned more about the mystic arts and helped the Masters prevent Kaecilius and the Zealots from merging Earth with the Dark Dimension, but not before witnessing the death of the Ancient One. With the demise of his mentor, Strange abandoned his previous life and became the protector of the New York Sanctum in New York City as well as Earth's protector from any inter-dimensional threats with Wong at his side.

Credit Marvel Cinematic Universe Wiki

Powers

  • Superhuman Speed
  • Superhuman Durability
  • Magic
    • Shields
    • Reality Warping
    • Time Manipulation
    • Portal Manipulation

Use for the Battle

Outside of prep, Strange really isn't doing much for this battle, however he does have a few things he can do. Like Iron Man he'll hang out near Ego's brain, protecting it. He will do this using his shields that can take quite a beating.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
  1. Doctor Strange's Shields take a blast from the Infinity Gauntlet(Avengers: Infinity War)
  2. Shields take a prolonged blast from Dormammu before breaking(Doctor Strange)
  3. Shields take multiple spikes from Dormammu, showing they can withstand piercing(Doctor Strange)

As you can see Strange's shields can withstand at least a few hits from higher tier characters.

Perks

Invisibility

Ego is invisible. Having someone who can one-shot people be invisible is really bad for you. Essentially, you have to prove you can detect that there's an invisible planet off in space before he kills all of you.

Mind Link

This allows for great teamwork between my team as they can instantly communicate information and know what is happening at all times due to Iron Man's presence in the other team's tech, Ego's massive view which will cover the entire battlefield, and one more thing which I'll explain in prep. Additionally, mind link combines all of the characters TP resist so to take down one character through TP, you have to take down all of them.

Prep

While you have 5 hours of prep and they are anywhere, it is quite possible that the 1 hour my team has will make a bigger impact upon the battle and end up helping us more.

So the first thing that my team does is have Doctor Strange scry the future. Doctor Strange proved capable of doing this when he scryed over 14 million possible futures and then starts acting on the one future where the heroes succeed. Doctor Strange did 14 million futures with minutes of prep, now he has an hour so he can probably view 50 million or more, more then enough to show many, many, many where our team wins and the few ways they have to avoid to stop your team from winning.

Loading Video...

Now in IW Strange did not tell everyone his plan, but in this battle using the mind link everyone will see which time they win. Of course, my team is going to win way, way more than one in 14 million, but using this they know what to do and what mistakes not to make against your team. This also shows them the battle and what your team will do so my team will know about your powers and your prep, so no catching us by surprise.

Next Ego is going to "destroy" the indestructible planet we spawn on. Obviously it's indestructible so he can't actually destroy it, but there's no reason he can't turn it into an indestructible hell-hole

Maximum Security; Dangerous Planet
Maximum Security; Dangerous Planet

So now you have a planet that is covered in lava and ash and doesn't have an atmosphere, completely uninhabitable by normal life. Any fodder you bring, dead, any tech that is not durable, destroyed and if your characters can't survive the environment, them too.

Ego also flies a good distance away from the planet during prep

Finally Tony uses the space ship on the battlefield to manipulate tech and give an Iron man suit to Doctor Strange, which turns him into a capable fighter on his own.

Counters

The main thing I want to address with these counters is the idea that Rogue can summon back powers at any time. Beyond the fact, this has only happened in one instance, this obviously isn't in character for Rogue. Firstly it was Sage's idea/plan to do this and not Rogue's and secondly Rogue is on a team with tons of telepaths and there are plenty of instances where Jean, Rachel, or Xavier giving Rogue the powers of all the x-men would've been really handy, but they never do it.

Conclusion

  • Ego can dish out tons of damage to everyone on the battlefield
  • Iron Man can hack and destroy or manipulate any tech you might bring
  • Doctor Strange sees the future so my team knows exactly what to do
  • Ego makes the planet apocalyptic
Online
Avatar image for kevd4wg
#29 Posted by Kevd4wg (11796 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for thatoneguy887
#30 Posted by Thatoneguy887 (1098 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmao. Awesome so far. Love the Pym particle and volcanic planet ideas here.

Tag after every post.

Avatar image for emperorthanos-
#31 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15620 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for chimeroid
#32 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn, time flies. i have around 70% of my post done. I should find some time these days to wrap it up

Avatar image for thenewguysnm1
#33 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7483 posts) - - Show Bio

Woah 2 of the best about and kev in one cav

T4V

Avatar image for xlr87t3
#34 Posted by XLR87T3 (9450 posts) - - Show Bio

What are you talking about? Kevd4wg is one of the best debaters on this website nowadays.

Avatar image for emperorthanos-
#36 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15620 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for chimeroid
#37 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

Note - If there is something i didn't address it is due to the fact that my post was getting HUGE and I decided it was better left for the next one.

The Opener

I will try to keep it simple for an opener, so let's jump straight into my characters:

Takion

"I don't know what I can do, but there's not a whole hell lot I can't"

No Caption Provided

Joshua Sanders was a blind man without a future. A person nobody would miss if he was ever called away to the duty of saving the Universe. As such, Izaya The Highfather saw him as the perfect choice for his successor and the savior of the Multiverse. And, thus, Izaya gave him the powers of a God and a direct link to the Source of all powers in the DCU.

Powers of Takion

It is really hard to define the exact powerset of Takion. But, if i was to put it simply he has ALL the powers. Essentially, Takion has a direct connection to the Source and is, in fact, an embodiment of the Source itself. He actually has access to all of the power sources in DC. That includes the Speed Force, The Emotional Spectrum, and the Quantum Field, among his other powers.

No Caption Provided

Essentially, he has the ability to manage the laws of physics as such due to his cosmic powers. However, we are here to see him in a fight, so, what does he actually do during combat? Well, here are some of his combat feats:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4
1. Turns his enemy into anti-matter 2. Atomizes the opponent by releasing the energies that are keeping their molecules together 3. Auto shields with retaliatory response that requires no though from Takion 4. Creates a black hole

Speed

Of course, the next question is how fast can he use his powers. The answer is - Faster than you would expect

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
1. Evading Wally West 2. Tagging Wally 3. Massively FTL

Full Knowledge

Another awesome perk that comes with using Takion is having access to the full knowledge about anything that might interest him. Take for example the moment he got his powers. Without even thinking about it actively, he found out everything there was to know about his would-be rescuer.

No Caption Provided

Of course, this is not his only showing of "virtual omniscience" but it is the most telling one. He can get a lot of information instantly And, given how he can observe the future and the past even without tying, we are safe to assume my team will be going into this fight with at least basic knowledge about the abilities of your team. Especially Gog as Takion would have in-universe knowledge either way.

Aquaman:

"You obviously don't come in peace, but feel free to leave in pieces!"

No Caption Provided

Short bio:

Orin was born an heir to the Atlantean Royal Family. His mother Atlanna had been unable to conceive a child with her husband King Trevis, but she was impregnated during a dream by the immortal wizard Atlan. Atlan prophesized the child's future and named him after his ancestor Orin.

Powers and Abilities:

There are plenty, but I will try to keep it as short as possible only providing a couple of feats per category:

Physicals:

Being Atlantean Royalty Aquaman tends to possess strength above that of a human or Atlantean. His strength has been shown to exceed the thousand-ton range=So, to be clear, i will show you Aquaman lifting tens of thousands of tons in shape of an entire street, tanking physical attacks from Superman level characters and energy projection from those that would put many to shame. I will also show you Aquaman swimming at mach 20 and being faster on land. He is capable of running on water and reacting to a speeding Barry Allen.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8
Strength: 1. Lifts a street of Subdiego with cars and even a building on it. Durability: 2. Tanks Lobo (actually stalemated him) 3. Tanks an energy blast from Starro 4. Almost no sells an angel sonic attack. Speed/Reflexes 5. 20.000 ft per second 6. Faster on land, 7, runs on water. 8. Reacts to Barry Allen.

But, let's face it, i didn't bring him into this one for his physical attributes. He has a plethora of other abilities, a lot of which come from his Water Hand.

Water Hand:

Water hand, given to Aquaman by the Lady of the Lake gives him a lot to work with since there is really a LOT I will copy the list from the wiki and provide feats for what I feel is the most important.

  • Hydrokinesis: The waterbearer hand like it's namesake suggests, can manipulate vast if not astronomical amounts of water for various means and ends, be it shooting scalding water jets at varying pressures or erecting and splitting massive tidal waves clean in half.[236][237][238]
  • Molecular Manipulation: Aquaman can alter the shape and density of the hand, for example Orin can make his hand into a sword or harder than steel.
  • Healing: It possesses healing properties.
  • Death Touch: By dehydrating anyone he touches with it.
  • Farsight: Can be used as a scrying pool.
  • Magic: Could utilize unique mysticism to keep a humanized Mera from drowning and undo a reality warp by Orm using the remains of his severed hand.[239][185]
  • Negate Magic: Can negate any other magics.
  • Prolonged Adaptation: Significantly increases the time Aquaman can spend out of water.
  • Independent Life: The hand can be separated from Aquaman and continue to work.
  • Portal Creation: It has the ability to create portals into mystical dimensions for working as instantaneous travel

Trauma

"I know what you're afraid of"

No Caption Provided

Terrance Ward is the half-demon son of a nigh-omnipotent being called Nightmare. His bloodline gives him the ability to shapeshift into his opponents greatest fears.

Powers and Abilities

Terrence Ward has one, very simple superpower. He can become what you fear. And, not only visually, he truly morphs into the being or the thing you fear the most. For example:

No Caption Provided

He morphs into Thor and one-shots Korg.

He is also immortal, but, more on that in later posts (if you want to know about it)

The Prep

The very first thing my team can do before they get to fighting is getting to know each other and work out a strategy. This will be simple and quick since Aquaman and Takion already know each other, while Trauma is quick to follow orders.

Takion will use his powers to find out as much as he can about your team. And, while he won't necessarily develop full knowledge, basic knowledge about your team is well within his grasp. And, to be fair, there isn't really too much for him to try and infer for some of the characters.

Then Aquaman will use his water hand to open a portal to Atlantis and call forth his armies, as well as order them to bring the suit of Armor he used to stomp an Imperiex probe.(for reference a single Imperiex Probe beat Flash, Lantern and Plastic Man with ease)

No Caption Provided

Moreover, the armor took the explosion of the Probe and wasn't even scuffed. (arthur was teleported away prior to explosion by Garth's spell, but that is a whole other part of the story.)

Not a scratch, dent, or scuff on the armor.
Not a scratch, dent, or scuff on the armor.

Of course, I am under no illusion that the armies of Atlantis will be that important apart from being a good distraction, but the armor is going to be nifty.

COUNTERS

Kev Counters

DR STRANGE

For Strange, I have only one counter I feel like I should bring up - his future sight didn't do him any good.

Sure, he took 14 million peeks into the future, but, until he does something with that, you can't really quantify the feat. Sure, we may "know" that he got it right and that everything will be alright, but you can't use feats that are yet to happen. For all we actually know, he might prove to be incredibly ineffective.

And yes, I know I am arguing a technicality, but it is a very important one.

EGO:

I won't go into countering feats at all as I am more than confident that i can take you down even with those feats intact. The reason for that lies in several facts that seem to haven't really had to face during this tourney.

1. Limitations of the Mind Link perk

2. Ego is not a hero

Allow me to spend some time explaining why i would like to point out those two things specifically.

Mind Link Issues - Teamwork

This will be the less-important aspect of my post. But, i still feel that i have to bring it up.

You see, to put it simply Perfect Teamwork and Mind Link aren't nearly the same thing.

Mind Link allows your teammates to communicate telepathically. It doesn't guarantee that they will work together, or even not slaughter each other. Now, i am not saying that they would necessarily fight each other, but given their characters, I don't find it very likely that they will be creating a plan as complicated as yours and executing it perfectly.

You basically have two heroes and a villain in your team. Creating and pulling off a complicated strategy is not very likely to happen with that in mind.

I have no doubt that they could work together if they agreed on a common goal. But this wouldn't be it. There is a reason mind link is 7 times cheaper than perfect teamwork. Heck, there is a good chance Ego wouldn't even try to protect Iron Man and Strange from TP.

Ego is not a hero

One of the main aspects of being a hero is being capable of looking in the face of danger and staying your ground. Fighting even when you are in deep shit and giving your all even if you don't think you can win.

Unfortunately for you, Ego is no such hero. In fact, he is a coward. he fears pain and he will run away in situations that make it seem like that pain is imminent.

Now, let's delve a bit deeper into exactly why and how Ego being a coward factors into this fight.

I want to start with his showing from ROM 69. Now, it's not the first, or the most telling one, but i do feel that this showing is very telling of Ego's character.

No Caption Provided

And, while ROM is one of the coolest characters Marvel has showcased, he is far from being one of the strongest. He is a low-mid tier at best and he could cause enough pain for Ego to surrender.

And, to be clear, Ego didn't seek to retaliate. He straight up bolted, looking for nourishment in places where ROM can't impede him.

In his bouts with Beta Ray Bill, all it took was a single hit that Ego felt as painful to have him admit defeat.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

This happened in Thor Annual 16. So, as you can see, Ego is not one to keep fighting when the going gets tough. Sure, he has a few feats of sticking through it, but the bottom line is that Ego is pretty much a bitch.

In Surfer 22 (the one from 1987) he was scared shitless by Norrin and he pleaded for his life once more.

No Caption Provided

Once more, notice that the fright that Surfer gave him was more than enough to remove any thought of battle from Ego's mind. There would be no retaliation, only scared, sniveling Ego.

Of coure, i am aware that there are all relatively old showings. And, i have had people argue that i shouldn't bring up things from 30 years ago. But, this trait of Ego remains consistent in the modern age as well. For example, in Nova 30, he was shooed away through the use of pain once more

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
A headache was enough to have him stargate to safety and avoid conflict.

Now, let's take a short trip to Thor 450. When Ego was in real danger, unlike in the previous instances.

No Caption Provided

When Ego got scared, he was "Lashing out in mindless panic" attacking everyone on the planet. Let's focus on the "Mindless panic" part for a moment.

Sure, Super-Ego is a stupidly powerful force, but i wanted to point out the way Ego's mind works. He is not good under pressure, and he is not good when he is scared. All my team needs to do is frighten him to win this fight. And, luckily, I have a character whose specialty is making his enemies afraid.

CONCLUSION OF THIS PART:

I would want the voters to bear in mind that i have effectively covered over half of all Ego stories with showings of Ego getting scared and running away/surrendering after suffering any form of damage or pain.

And, there is nothing keeping him in this fight. My entire team would be more than happy to let him forfeit or turn around and "walk away."

The Second Weakness of Ego

In Thor Annual 16, Beta Ray Bill has found a way to draw out the energy of Ego through simple magnetic/gravity manipulation.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Exploiting the Weaknesses

Fear

Unfortunately for you, a single-pointer in this tourney has a perfect power required to face Ego - he scares people. Of course, I am talking about Trauma.

And, we should bear in mind that Trauma doesn't have to work alone here. he can combine his powers of appearing frightening to his enemies (and with the powers of the form he takes) with the pain Takion can cause Ego to force Ego to flee.

Or, even worse, he can potentially scare Ego enough for Ego to start hitting his own team in "mindless panic"

Gravity/Electro Magnetic Manipulation

If gravity/EM manipulation has the power to make Ego scared enough to obey BRB, then Takion has just the powers he needs. We know that he can manipulate the gravity of his enemies directly, we know that he can squelch energies, and he can manipulate magnetic fields.

Needless to say, he can replicate BRB's feat with casual ease.

Hurting Ego

Of course, for this particular part of the strategy to work, i have to show that Takion can hurt Ego. And, to be honest. That shouldn't even be much of a challenge.

I mean, he can create large amount of Anti-Matter with a single thought. And he turned the entire body of Stayne there. That means that he can, at the very least, create around 50kilograms of anti matter with a single thought.

Visiting Wikipedia shows us that antimatter is very volatile and can explode with immense force. Namely, a single gram of antimatter that simply touches matter can cause the explosion of 42 kilotons. That is over twice the power of the Fat Man atomic bomb that was dropped on Nagasaki. Now, multiply that by 50,000 to get the amount of antimatter that he casually created and you get the attack that will cause Ego a LOT of pain.

Alternatively, he can be a lot more direct and simply create a black hole to attack Ego with.

Please note that Takion has the ability to control the Black Hole and choose exactly what gets affected by the pull of the black hole and what doesn't. So, my team would be perfectly safe, even if they are sitting right next to it.

Noticing Ego

Now, don't worry, i know that Ego is invisible and that you believe that it makes you safe from being noticed. However, my team has the tools to locate him with no real difficulties.

Aquaman has telepathy which he has used to locate his enemies. For example, he located the enemy that was on the moon at the time, he also used his telepathy to locate a sniper and dodge his bullets. (Speaking of Telepathy, Arthur's Seizure inducing attack might work even with the mind-link protection as it doesn't actually target the mind so Strange might be open to an attack)

And, Takion has his own form of Cosmic Awareness and nigh-omniscience to use as a data feed.

Beatboks1 Counters

For BB1, I don't have as many direct counters as I have questions and demands.

Namely, there are several things I will need to have proven to me before I buy into his strategy.

Let's take a look:

this leaves me 45 minutes with the intellect of Strange+Doom+Stark+ pym and two team mates who can operate at light speed (DN courtesy of perk) and MFTL (Blue supes). One has TK that can do quite a bit and one can matter an energy manipulate.

Assuming this works. I still have issue with your next statement:

4. Using Pym's knowledge they will have access to pym particles and with Doom and Strange access to their knowledge of magic

Knowing of something =/= having it. You have 45 minutes to create Pym particles and then to create gear that can use Pym particles properly. AS ingenius as the plan is, I think you are underestimating how short 45 minutes are. Most people can't have dinner in that time period.

I mean

"5. they will also build personal teleporters for all three plus a remote to control them given to Blue Supes"

Again, 45 minutes tops. And this prep seems very complicated.

7. Rogue will then use the magic knowledge of Strange and Doom to cast spells to hide my team from the psi of Ego and the cosmic awareness of Takion. Also cast spells to create simulacrums for them to detect.

Ugh.. Knowledge =/= skill. It's like having a surgeon who has never practiced. Sure, they can know everything that's in a book, but they need experience to do it right.

So, not saying she can't just saying i want to see some feats of Rogue using magic to be able to accurately gauge her skill level and powers.

Once i get those answers the battle can commence for real.

Of course, this is just the intro, so i will refrain from giving any summaries or conclusion as of yet. of course, there is a lot to be brought in from all of us before we get that far.

Avatar image for chimeroid
#38 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for chimeroid
#39 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for beatboks1
#40 Edited by beatboks1 (9764 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg: @chimeroid:

Ok these counters confuse me a little.

The main thing I want to address with these counters is the idea that Rogue can summon back powers at any time.

O_o??? Given I haven't summoned back any powers in this round I'm completely dumbfounded. I mean I could have but I instead chose to simply pull forth the psionic tenplates of minds she had absorbed.

Beyond the fact, this has only happened in one instance,

Actually its happened quite a bit more than once.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

In xmen 107 a telepathic Skrull unlocked Rogues powers also.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Which brings us to X-men Legacy 224, where Charles pulled down the barriers in her mind holding and separating all the templates she had walled off within. Then again when he helped her pull together some of the personas of Legion within her mind.

this obviously isn't in character for Rogue. Firstly it was Sage's idea/plan to do this and not Rogue's

SORRY???? Contradicting the evidence I've already provided to the contrary?. Rogue asked sage to do it Sage said it was dangerous because Rogue lacked control.

and secondly Rogue is on a team with tons of telepaths and there are plenty of instances where Jean, Rachel, or Xavier giving Rogue the powers of all the x-men would've been really handy, but they never do it.

Gee could that be for the very same reason Sage didn't want to do it??

You say its out of character for Rogue to do it, but she ISN'T the one doing it. DARK NEBULA IS. Dark Nebula who is a freakin hot head who when attacked just destroyed a whole freakin planet, burned a million denons, attacked other known heroes

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
No Caption Provided

and was going to beat an enemy to death.

What the telepathic team mates of Rogue would do in character isn't a limiter on the character of Mark Medula who will clearly do what a lot of heroes wouldnt.

Ugh.. Knowledge =/= skill. It's like having a surgeon who has never practiced. Sure, they can know everything that's in a book, but they need experience to do it right.

It's interesting that Chime should mention the idea of having knowledge wouldn't allow one the skill to perform surgery. because that is Exactly what Rogue did with Cecelia Reyes' medical knowledge

No Caption Provided

As you can see when she absorbs a person's memories she absorbs their "talents". Talent by definition is "natural aptitude or skill." It's their entire psychie that becomes a part of her.

there are plenty of other examples of this. to name a few

No Caption Provided

Rogue has used the skills of a ninja she absorbed.

and since he asked here is rogue casting spells

No Caption Provided

In short the absorbed psychies Rogue has allow her all the skills of everyone. In all honesty she has better access to their skills than their powers which she has often shown limitations to (not using their power to their level).

Knowing of something =/= having it. You have 45 minutes to create Pym particles and then to create gear that can use Pym particles properly. AS ingenius as the plan is, I think you are underestimating how short 45 minutes are. Most people can't have dinner in that time period.

One doesn't "create" Pym particles. They exist as a naturally occurring sub atomic particle that Hank Pym discovered and Isolated. The hard yards have already been done in his memory. he knows where to find them. If I was going to create the elixer or the gases he uses thay would take time but I don't need to. I have a TKer and another team member who can energy and matter manipulate. All they need to do is know where the particles are to use them.

Again, 45 minutes tops. And this prep seems very complicated.

Are we just forgetting that I Have Blue Supes who is MFTL and Dark Nebula with a light speed perk?

Both of whom are by now mind linked by DN to Rogue with the knowledge of Strange and Doom and Pym. Using magic, TK and energy matter manip with the speeds they will be operating on, I don't see this time being all that much of a problem. with that knowledge of magic Rogue herself can speed herself up to match them.

Summary thus far.

  1. Clearly TP can be used to bring the Psychies from within Rogue as has been done on several occasions
  2. Rogue does possess the skill of those she has taken the templates of as has been shown many times.
  3. Pym particles exist as a naturally occurring subatomic particle and don't need to be "created"
  4. 45 minutes for two speedsters is plenty of time to make a few teleporters and a controller. Superman himslef has knowledge to make one.

Now to the battle.

While I will still have spells operating to hide/direct my opponents elsewhere (potentially making it look as though my attacks come from my other opponents) let's face it with Cosmic awareness on both teams there will be limited success with that.

Chime brings up a great point about ego and how easily he runs. If SS and others of that level can make him feel enough pain to retreat then I don't see him standing up to a full on dark fire blast for long. and with 3 time remnants adding to that and one adding to the Real DN double quick.

The rest of my DN's and all but one of my prime and Blue Supes and Prime Rogue will attack Takion. Prime Rogue with 616 Stange's and Dooms magic Knowledge deal with MCU Strange (who is below both) and Prime Blue Supes takes out Arthur. As Blue Supes is energy and has no water and uses no magic Arthur can't even affect him.

I will be relying VERY heavily on the spidey sense of my main Blue supes combined with his vastly greater speed to everyone else on the field and his remote control of all my main team teleporters to keep my three prime characters safe from enemy attacks by ensuring we aren't where they are struck.

Avatar image for beatboks1
#41 Posted by beatboks1 (9764 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for chimeroid
#42 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Goddamn, this is why i don't like 1v1v1 fights, i want to reply ASAP :D

Avatar image for kevd4wg
#43 Posted by Kevd4wg (11796 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: @chimeroid: Alright, I'll try to have a post up as soon as I can(Can't promise anything for like a week though)

Online
Avatar image for chimeroid
#44 Edited by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg said:

@beatboks1: @chimeroid: Alright, I'll try to have a post up as soon as I can(Can't promise anything for like a week though)

Don't worry about it. Take the time you need. I just wanted to "assault" one scan BB used :D

Avatar image for kevd4wg
#45 Edited by Kevd4wg (11796 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid@beatboks1

Counters

No Caption Provided

Chime

Takion

It is really hard to define the exact powerset of Takion. But, if i was to put it simply he has ALL the powers. Essentially, Takion has a direct connection to the Source and is, in fact, an embodiment of the Source itself. He actually has access to all of the power sources in DC. That includes the Speed Force, The Emotional Spectrum, and the Quantum Field, among his other powers.

Now just having all the powers doesn't necessarily mean that he can or will use "all of the powers." Pretty simply, unless Takion has actually done something, there's no reason to believe he will do it. So looking into the application feats you posted

1. Turns his enemy into anti-matter

I think it's pretty obvious that doing this to a person is a whole lot different then doing this to an actual planet, which is doubtful it would work.

2. Atomizes the opponent by releasing the energies that are keeping their molecules together

Same as above, just because it works on a person doesn't mean it can work on a planet.

3. Auto shields with retaliatory response that requires no though from Takion

Unfortunately, in the scan all it does is block a blast from Captain Atom, who really doesn't hit close to as hard as Ego.

4. Creates a black hole

Ego can simply outrun this with his newfound FTL speed, given to him by the Stranger, that he had in Astonishing Thor #1

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

1. Evading Wally West

All he does is teleport out of Wally's path, it's not like he's physically keeping up with Wally in anyway.

2. Tagging Wally

Only with an omnidirectional AoE blast. This once again doesn't prove he's anywhere close to Wally in actual speed

Massively FTL

In travel speed sure, but that's all this is, travel speed.

Another awesome perk that comes with using Takion is having access to the full knowledge about anything that might interest him. Take for example the moment he got his powers. Without even thinking about it actively, he found out everything there was to know about his would-be rescuer.

He gains this information just by luck basically. He has no control over it. That's quite a bit different from consciously gaining information on 6 different people in the heat of a battle.

Trauma(Aquaman is not too important, I'll counter his stuff in strategy if need be)

Terrence Ward has one, very simple superpower. He can become what you fear. And, not only visually, he truly morphs into the being or the thing you fear the most. For example:

Now this is great and all, but there's 1 big, big problem with picking Trauma. He's become a therapist later on in the series instead of a warrior and multiple times it was shown he would only fight when his friends were hurt or in danger like in Avengers: The Initiative #9 against clone MVP

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And I have to question the "truly morphing into thing you fear most" as in Avengers: The Initiative #21, Trauma once again morphs into Thor to fight Ragnarok, however Ragnarok one-shots him with just one hammer throw.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Also the scan shows Trauma can't use any gear of the character he has. But anyway, why is it important that Ragnarok one-shot him? Well in Thor #610, the real Thor stomped Ragnarok hard

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

So considering that Trauma can't replicate the full power of Thor, how is he going to do anything against someone like Ego.

Counters to My Post

Sure, he took 14 million peeks into the future, but, until he does something with that, you can't really quantify the feat. Sure, we may "know" that he got it right and that everything will be alright, but you can't use feats that are yet to happen. For all we actually know, he might prove to be incredibly ineffective.

I mean, that's fair, but Dr Strange also only saw one method to victory out of 14 million. I'm sure there's a whole lot more winnings for Ego and co then 1 in 14 Million.

Mind Link allows your teammates to communicate telepathically. It doesn't guarantee that they will work together, or even not slaughter each other. Now, i am not saying that they would necessarily fight each other, but given their characters, I don't find it very likely that they will be creating a plan as complicated as yours and executing it perfectly.

Yes, but with an hour of prep much like you're team, the team can develop and start to work together better. And also, I've been waiting for someone to bring this up all tourney because I had a plan for it. You see, after a while if Ego gets annoyed with Strange and Ultimate Iron man, he'll simply take over them with Telepathy through the mind link ensuring perfect teamwork. Take for instance Maximum Security: Dangerous Planet where Ego used a psychic blast that hurts even Xavier

No Caption Provided

I want to start with his showing from ROM 69. Now, it's not the first, or the most telling one, but i do feel that this showing is very telling of Ego's character.

The problem with this is that Rom is only causing this level of pain by affecting Ego's brain, which amplifies the pain by a ton, so it's not at all a fair comparison.

This happened in Thor Annual 16. So, as you can see, Ego is not one to keep fighting when the going gets tough. Sure, he has a few feats of sticking through it, but the bottom line is that Ego is pretty much a bitch.

Firstly, this happened after Bill had drained Ego and thus Ego was weakened and secondly this was caused by an on fire moon sized comet slamming into him at high speeds, that's a lot of damage. I mean in the exact same issue, Ego no-sold a small moon sized explosion that was partially inside him.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

In Surfer 22 (the one from 1987) he was scared shitless by Norrin and he pleaded for his life once more.

Not by Norrin, in fact Norrin couldn't hurt him so he resorted to matter manipulating Ego's propulsion to send him into the Sun, which was going to melt him as a planet somehow? But yeah, Norrin couldn't make Ego stop by his own power.

Of coure, i am aware that there are all relatively old showings. And, i have had people argue that i shouldn't bring up things from 30 years ago. But, this trait of Ego remains consistent in the modern age as well. For example, in Nova 30, he was shooed away through the use of pain once more

Through the combination of having an army attack his brain(remember what I said about pain there) and the Nova Corps firing all their weapons at him. Additionally this was right after he recovered from being lobotomized so he probably wasn't at his best.

Now, let's take a short trip to Thor 450. When Ego was in real danger, unlike in the previous instances.

I wouldn't say this is exactly the same as just being in real danger. In this situation, there was literally nothing Ego could do to win. It was kinda just inevitable doom. But while Ego is not the best at dealing with pain, that doesn't make him useless, as first you have to prove you can really make Ego feel pain. And to his exterior, that's pretty damn difficult like when he shrugged off a planet biting him, which I posted earlier.

Sure, Super-Ego is a stupidly powerful force, but i wanted to point out the way Ego's mind works. He is not good under pressure, and he is not good when he is scared. All my team needs to do is frighten him to win this fight. And, luckily, I have a character whose specialty is making his enemies afraid.

Ego's fears that make him act like that are Fear and Pain, abstract concepts that Trauma can't create.

If gravity/EM manipulation has the power to make Ego scared enough to obey BRB, then Takion has just the powers he needs. We know that he can manipulate the gravity of his enemies directly, we know that he can squelch energies, and he can manipulate magnetic fields.

That's a bit different then manipulating the magnetic field of the entire planet to draw out energy, but it's also worth questioning about whether Takion can even get close enough to do so, or if he would even know to do so. Plus this took quite a bit of time and Ego wasn't that weakened, it makes Takion quite the target for BB's team.

I mean, he can create large amount of Anti-Matter with a single thought. And he turned the entire body of Stayne there. That means that he can, at the very least, create around 50kilograms of anti matter with a single thought.

Visiting Wikipedia shows us that antimatter is very volatile and can explode with immense force. Namely, a single gram of antimatter that simply touches matter can cause the explosion of 42 kilotons. That is over twice the power of the Fat Man atomic bomb that was dropped on Nagasaki. Now, multiply that by 50,000 to get the amount of antimatter that he casually created and you get the attack that will cause Ego a LOT of pain.

I actually don't think 50,000 times 42 kilotons would be very impressive. That's just like 420 megatons, not even country level. It pales in comparison to the explosion of the Galactus Engine, which he no-sold while weakened.

Counters - Beatboks

O_o??? Given I haven't summoned back any powers in this round I'm completely dumbfounded. I mean I could have but I instead chose to simply pull forth the psionic tenplates of minds she had absorbed.

I apologize, I read the part where you said Sage brought back powers, but somehow missed the saying you're not bringing back powers.

In xmen 107 a telepathic Skrull unlocked Rogues powers also.

No she didn't. The skrull basically downloads herself into Rogue. Nowhere does it say that Rogue has all her powers/psyche coming back. I'm assuming you're talking about how Rogue says "It's like every part of me came unglued", but that's the natural response from having a skrull downloaded inside of you

Which brings us to X-men Legacy 224, where Charles pulled down the barriers in her mind holding and separating all the templates she had walled off within. Then again when he helped her pull together some of the personas of Legion within her mind.

Yet the problem is, after Charles does this, Rogue is unconscious for over a day

No Caption Provided

That's not very useful for prep or a battle if one of your characters, specifically the one with all the knowledge is out the entire time. Furthermore, in this instance, this was a permanent event of pulling down these walls, but it's not like Rogue now always has the knowledge of everyone she's touched in her head all the time.

Plus there's the problem of conflicting personalities that she's absorbed, I mean in the instance of x-treme x-men you posted, when Rogue briefly used Magneto's powers, Magneto almost completely overwhelmed her

No Caption Provided

And that was just briefly accessing his powers. Now you want rogue to access the likes of Doom, Tony, Strange, and Hank all at the same time. Doom's mind would be hell to be inside of as would Hanks awful split mind. Additionally is there any reason to believe she can call back these memories without powers because all those memories and powers were tearing her apart, and that was Rogue at her peak

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And out of the ones you mentioned, there's no reason to believe she absorbed Doom considering Strange said "she absorbed the power of nearly every avenger on the planet.

SORRY???? Contradicting the evidence I've already provided to the contrary?. Rogue asked sage to do it Sage said it was dangerous because Rogue lacked control.

Eh, my bad on that, but Rogue doesn't like to have a bunch of memories and powers rattling around. She did this to save Gambit, so it's not really her normal mind set, and Magneto's mind alone took her out of the battle completely.

You say its out of character for Rogue to do it, but she ISN'T the one doing it. DARK NEBULA IS. Dark Nebula who is a freakin hot head who when attacked just destroyed a whole freakin planet, burned a million denons, attacked other known heroes

And how would he know to do it? Or even to think of doing it? Furthermore, without proper constraint, it's likely Dark Nebula could kill Rogue by doing this, which Professor Xavier was very worried would happen in the X-men legacy scans you posted.

Conclusion

  • Ego can pretty much still one-shot everyone with an eye blast, or at worst take them down with a few
  • Ego can take over his own team to work for him
  • Ego's pain may be a weakness, but it takes a ton to cause him that kind of pain, and since it's abstract, it's not really something Trauma can do.
Online
Avatar image for chimeroid
#46 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg: Before i get into it, your math is kinda poor :D

I actually don't think 50,000 times 42 kilotons would be very impressive. That's just like 420 megatons, not even country level. It pales in comparison to the explosion of the Galactus Engine, which he no-sold while weakened.

50k x 42 kt is 2100 megatons. And that would be a casual showing for him. Anyway. I will get back at ya as soon as i can :D

Avatar image for kevd4wg
#47 Posted by Kevd4wg (11796 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: Oh yeah that would be some incorrect math, it's still like small country level though

No Caption Provided

So my point would still stand

Online
Avatar image for chimeroid
#48 Edited by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

ROUND 1: GOOk, so, now that we have all laid our cards out and given some explanations, the debate can finally start in earnest. I will start by addressing Kev's post as it is the most recent one.

@kevdawg CountersFeat Discussion

I think it's pretty obvious that doing this to a person is a whole lot different then doing this to an actual planet, which is doubtful it would work.

Why exactly would it be different? I mean, i agree that, without feats, i can't claim he will turn the entirety of ego into anti-matter, but i see no reason for Takion to show incapable of Turning a chunk of Ego, Iron Man and Dr Strange into Anti-Matter and cause country-sized explosions all over Ego.

Same as above, just because it works on a person doesn't mean it can work on a planet.

Why? I understand that size is your only argument, but you seem to be overplaying it a lot. Also, not all of the feats i show are geared towards fighting you. In fact, i was very specific about attacks that are in reserve for Ego. Are you forgetting that you have two regular humans in your team? And that Beatboks has a bunch of 'em?

Ego can simply outrun this with his newfound FTL speed, given to him by the Stranger, that he had in Astonishing Thor #1

He definitely can run away. In fact - HE WOULD. That was the ENTIRE POINT of my previous post. Ego would run away at the first sign of pain. You making this point just solidifies my claim.

All he does is teleport out of Wally's path, it's not like he's physically keeping up with Wally in anyway.

There are a lot of sentences that you make that make no sense to me. It doesn't matter if Takion can or cannot move his arms and legs as fast as Wally can. He can operate in the same speed. Takion's main weapon is his mind. he just needs to THINK something and it will happen. The feat i showed proves, without a doubt, that Takion can operate in the same timeframe Wally can. Heck, for this battle, Takion doesn't have to move a single part of his body. All of what I am having him do is strictly related to his powers, which work through thinking.

Either way, he is definitely vastly faster than anything your team has up their sleeves, especially when it comes to reaction time.

The Knowledge Debate

He gains this information just by luck basically. He has no control over it. That's quite a bit different from consciously gaining information on 6 different people in the heat of a battle.

Heat of the battle? I have a full hour of prep to use his abilities that include looking into the future. And, he didn't have control over it on his first day that is true, but he didn't have any control over his powers on the first day. He developed the control a bit later on. Either way, Takion has been stated multiple times to have access to nigh-omniscience. And, it's not like i was cruising for full knowledge. Just a basic glimpse into the future. Something even Aquaman is capable of. I mean, he literally has access to everything anyone has ever imagined, or will imagine.

And all he has to do to access that sea of information is focus his telepathy on his Water Hand. Again, not browsing for full knowledge or anything, but basic info is well within the reach of at least two characters from my team. Not to mention that Trauma has the in-universe knowledge of the enemy team.

Trauma Counters

Now this is great and all, but there's 1 big, big problem with picking Trauma. He's become a therapist later on in the series instead of a warrior and multiple times it was shown he would only fight when his friends were hurt or in danger like in Avengers: The Initiative #9 against clone MVP

I don't see that as a problem at all. I don't need him to fight. I think you completely missed the point of my use of Trauma. I never argued that he could become as powerful as Galactus (as Ego fears Galan) or anything similar. I merely wanted to play at Ego's fears to help hasten his decision to run away from this battle. Which, as you yourself noted when you said he can use his FTL speed to escape a black hole, is very possible even without Trauma's assistance.

And I have to question the "truly morphing into thing you fear most" as in Avengers: The Initiative #21, Trauma once again morphs into Thor to fight Ragnarok, however Ragnarok one-shots him with just one hammer throw.

You can question whatever you want. The issue is that you will get an answer that is unsatisfactory to you. You see, the way to beat Trauma is not to overpower him, it is to get over your fear. Hulk has shown to be capable of beating Trauma whatever Trauma morphed into because WWH wasn't afraid of anything. Ragnarok was capable of defeating Trauma once he got rid of his fear. Before he did he was 100% powerless before Trauma

This is Trauma 100% NO-SELLING an angry attack from Ragnarok and smacking him around like a little bitch. Oh, and this scan makes your clam dubious at best and disingenuous at worst.

The Use of TraumaApart for the fact that you clearly misunderstood how Trauma's powers work, you also seem to have misunderstood what my plan is.

So considering that Trauma can't replicate the full power of Thor, how is he going to do anything against someone like Ego.

By simply scaring him away. I mean, Ego has literally run away from ROM - a being who doesn't even get close to the solid mid-tier, let alone being planetary. Yet, Ego didn't have the balls to confront him even after ROM left Ego's brain. Ego could have crushed him, but, instead, he has raced away to find the part of the universe without ROM.

I don't have to have the power to hurt Ego, i just need to scare him. And it is canonically proven that Ego fears ROM enough to avoid him instead of fighting.

Other CountersTeamwork

I mean, that's fair, but Dr Strange also only saw one method to victory out of 14 million. I'm sure there's a whole lot more winnings for Ego and co then 1 in 14 Million.

Two issues - First of all, what if there were millions of ways for Avengers to win (as we can all simply speculate and as we all have in various threads) and Strange is just so dismally bad that he only saw one in 14 million? Would make him quite a poor seer? Wouldn't it?

Yes, but with an hour of prep much like you're team, the team can develop and start to work together better. And also, I've been waiting for someone to bring this up all tourney because I had a plan for it. You see, after a while if Ego gets annoyed with Strange and Ultimate Iron man, he'll simply take over them with Telepathy through the mind link ensuring perfect teamwork. Take for instance Maximum Security: Dangerous Planet where Ego used a psychic blast that hurts even Xavier

Psychich blast =/= Mind Control. So, you are yet to prove that Ego could do that at all.

The second issue is that mind-controlled people simply don't retain all of their abilities while being mind controlled. Especially if those abilities rely solely on their mental faculties.

Fear

The problem with this is that Rom is only causing this level of pain by affecting Ego's brain, which amplifies the pain by a ton, so it's not at all a fair comparison.

The problem is that you are, for the fifth time, missing the point. Even after ROM got away from Ego's brain, Ego was too afraid to engage ROM any further. In fact, he straight up bolted for any space where the Spaceknight can't impede him. The current state of things shows that Ego would run away at the sight of ROM.

Firstly, this happened after Bill had drained Ego and thus Ego was weakened and secondly this was caused by an on fire moon sized comet slamming into him at high speeds, that's a lot of damage. I mean in the exact same issue, Ego no-sold a small moon sized explosion that was partially inside him.

He didn't no-sell shit there mate. He survived it. Anyway, as soon as he was harmed, he started begging for his life like a coward that he is. With the combined power of Takion and everything Beatboks1 is throwing at you, we can be pretty damn sure that Ego would feel the pain.

Not by Norrin, in fact Norrin couldn't hurt him so he resorted to matter manipulating Ego's propulsion to send him into the Sun, which was going to melt him as a planet somehow? But yeah, Norrin couldn't make Ego stop by his own power.

Yeah, we have seen twice so far that a Sun can outright kill Ego. but, that wasn't the fight. Once more, you are talking about the power levels of Ego and Norrin instead of focusing on Ego's character, which is what i am attacking. Once again, he was scared for his life and immediately forfeited the battle. And, even once Norrin no longer had the ability to affect the Galactus engine, Ego didn't have the balls to attack Surfer, instead, he just ran away, as he always does.

Through the combination of having an army attack his brain(remember what I said about pain there) and the Nova Corps firing all their weapons at him. Additionally this was right after he recovered from being lobotomized so he probably wasn't at his best.

It's bloody consistent, there are no excuses about him being "at his best" that can help you. Every single time he feels pain, he gets scared and retreats. Beatboks1 and i don't have to prove that our teams can beat Ego, we just need to prove that we can cause him a bit of pain and he will run away with his tail between his proverbial legs. The black hole Takion can create could even be enough in and of itself.

I wouldn't say this is exactly the same as just being in real danger. In this situation, there was literally nothing Ego could do to win. It was kinda just inevitable doom. But while Ego is not the best at dealing with pain, that doesn't make him useless, as first you have to prove you can really make Ego feel pain. And to his exterior, that's pretty damn difficult like when he shrugged off a planet biting him, which I posted earlier.

Doesn't matter if he could win or not, he reacted like a coward when he was in danger. Something that no hero character ever does. Everyone else in this battle is ready to face the odds and fight till the dying breath except for Ego.

CAUSING PAIN TO EGOBB1's TeamOf course, my argument hinges on whether or not the combined might of Takion, Dark Nebula, Rogue, Blue Superman, Aquaman and Trauma can cause Ego to feel pain. We have seen what Beatboks1 proposes. And, his team includes one thing that is getting lost in this debate - Thor Rogues

To be clear, i am not sold on BB1's strategy when it comes to Pym Particles and all that other crap. But, I am pretty sure he could pull Time Remnants of Rogue from different points of history, which include several versions of her with incredible powers. And, to be completely straight here, a single "discount" Thor (BRB) was capable of soloing Ego with relative ease. So, while Rogue is a "discount" Thor in this scenario herself, several of Rogue Thors should be able to do the trick as well.

Also, Let's not forget that Dark Nebula has planet-busted before. That feat alone is proof that he could more than sufficiently harm Ego and have him run away.

Now, let's add Takion to that Equation.A being that has all the right powers required to depower Ego and to cause him great pain.

For starters, he can create a black hole, as we have previously seen. Since the gravity of a star was scary enough to emotionally scar Ego, a black hole should at least give him pause, before the pain starts.

Then, Takion can effortlessly create at least 50kg of Anti-Matter with a single thought. That is a surefire way to create explosions all across Ego's surface. Cuz, believe it or not, there is nothing stopping Takion from smacking Ego with a shower of explosions that are each the size of goddamn Kansas.

It can hurt Ego even more if Takion does that to his teammates and kills off Strange and Stark with two individual thoughts.

To add insult to injury, my team can have Trauma morphing into one of the beings that have caused Ego a lot of pain, beings such as BRB, Rom, or even Silver Surfer. Those transformations would give Trauma enough power to survive this battle and they would serve to influence Ego's PTSD to take the fight out of him before it even begins.

@beatboks1 Counters:Ok, so, from what i have seen, BB1 and I see eye-to-eye for the most part. So, this part should be a lot shorter.

It's interesting that Chime should mention the idea of having knowledge wouldn't allow one the skill to perform surgery. because that is Exactly what Rogue did with Cecelia Reyes' medical knowledge

As you can see when she absorbs a person's memories she absorbs their "talents".

Now, pay close attention to the exact wording of the scan. Most feats are given context through details and paying attention can help prove or disprove a claim. In this case, we have a quote from Rogue that says:

"I absorbed her not so long ago. The memories are still fresh and so are the talents"

She made a conscious effort to say, and then confirm, that the only reason she might have the skills to perform the surgery is the fact that she has only recently absorbed Reyes.

and since he asked here is rogue casting spells

I gotta say, her spellcasting seems to be very lackluster to me. Nothing in the scope of what you propose here.

One doesn't "create" Pym particles. [..].

Semantics, you know exactly what i meant. It takes a while to make any tech capable of leveraging Pym particles.

I have a TKer and another team member who can energy and matter manipulate. All they need to do is know where the particles are to use them.

They would also need to have a deep and thorough understanding of *how* to use them. Otherwise, any TKer in the Marvel Universe would be using them by now.

Are we just forgetting that I Have Blue Supes who is MFTL and Dark Nebula with a light speed perk?

Are we forgetting about the importance of feats? Even with Superman's speed, you would have to show exactly what he can create with 45 minutes.

Both of whom are by now mind linked by DN to Rogue with the knowledge of Strange and Doom and Pym.

There's another detail in the surgery scan you posted. Rogue was quite clear about the retention of knowledge "My mind may be blank, but my hands know exactly what to do". Rogue is no high-level telepath that reserves the full knowledge and understanding of those she absorbs. She simply doesn't retain knowledge that others could use by reading her mind.

And, to repeat myself, the draining has to be recent.

BB1's Summary so Far:

Clearly TP can be used to bring the Psychies from within Rogue as has been done on several occasions

Never before done in the way you propose it would be here. Moreover, psychies clearly don't show direct knowledge and Kev has already offered several high-quality counters to the strategy.

Rogue does possess the skill of those she has taken the templates of as has been shown many times.

Skills and talents that diminish over time as Rogue has stated herself.

Pym particles exist as a naturally occurring subatomic particle and don't need to be "created"

Again, semantics, you know what i meant. You can't just pull that level of tech out of your ass.

45 minutes for two speedsters is plenty of time to make a few teleporters and a controller. Superman himslef has knowledge to make one.

He definitely has the knowledge, but has he ever done so in 45 minutes? That part is the questionable one.

The BattleWhen we put all of what we have seen so far together, there are several things that come out as logical conclusions.

For example, Ego will run away as soon as Dark Nebula starts blasting him even without Takion's help. If Takion starts harming him too, Ego might even potentially die.

When the battle turns between mine and Beatboks1's team, the situation changes drastically. For starters, it's no longer a question of size (fighting a planet has its own challenges) but rather a question of versatility.

And, while BB1 has shown that his team has a lot, it still doesn't quite measure up to what Takion can dish out.

Telepathy

But, that is not the worst part. Unlike his team, my team sports Mind Immunity. Making the TP battle in this debate a one-sided one. Aquaman can use his planetary telepathy to assault anyone on BB1's team without having to worry about a counterattack. It will take some characters over instantly, while simply bothering the others.

The big issue for BB in this fight is the fact that even those with high-level TP like Dark Nebula won't be able to do anything in retaliation. He will just have to try and hunker down while Arthur is giving him seizures and otherwise assaults his psyche.

Takion's AttacksTurning your teammates into Anti-Matter bombs seems to be quite a smart strategy. He can just demolish all copies of your team with relative ease. Of course, he can use a number of different attacks to aide him, but the bottom line is that the versatility that my team sports is simply too much for Dark Nebula.

ConclusionsAs with all posts, every battle must come to an end. So, let's sum up what is going on

1. Ego runs away when he gets hurt + Our two teams both have enough firepower to hurt him

2. Iron Man and Strange are no more than fodder in this fight

3. BB1's plan is overcomplicated, previously unseen by the members of his team, relies on too many things and relatively hard to pull off in a short time span.

4. Takion simply has all of the tools required to win this fight.

Avatar image for chimeroid
#49 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg: @beatboks1: I accidentally edited my post on my phone and lost all of the images and formatting, i will fix it later.

Avatar image for emperorthanos-
#50 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15620 posts) - - Show Bio