@emperorthanos-: I'll save you some time, if I don't get it out by tomorrow, DQ me. Cause after tomorrow I'll start reviewing for exams, so there is no way I'm posting anything then.
@apex_pretador: Since Major is out I can post my counters to your post. I finished it already but there is a few things I want to add so it will be up in a day or two.
Me: When Jean one shots Charles with TK the fight is over for you
Except Charles's Telepathy would alone keep Jean so hard-pressed to even retain herself, that she would be unable to focus on other things like TK.
You missed the exact point I was trying to make...but more on this later.
She would need to give more than her 100% effort to even hold charles off.
We'll see about that.
While Charles usually holds back in TP, he knows how powerful telepath Jean is, so he will not hold back against her,
The same can be said for Jean, she holds back too and knows as much about Charles' power as he does Jean's.
like he did when he one-shotted Rachel Grey + Thor + Cap + Rulk + many other avengers + phoenix force Namor, and then simply plucked-off their memories
Literally only Rachel Grey is noteworthy, nothing implied that Namor's psychic defenses were improved by the phoenix force. And while you can say it's not unreasonable to think he would have some we still wouldn't know to what extent. TP'ing phoenix force Namor is unquantifiable, making Rachel Grey the only person who mattered there. Although that's not good enough to matter against Jean regardless,Jean has better telepathy feats than Rachel.
Even though I agree that Jean is almost a match for Xavier in pure psionic power
Not to mention, Jean doesn't have the high-end feats Xavier has
So not only do you think Jean actually isn't a match for Xavier(evidenced by your italicized almost) but you don't think she has the high end feats of Charles?
I'd like to see your reasoning for that when Jean beat down Emma Frost(who was amped by a cosmic cube shard) in telepathy.
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Remember how I said Jean TP'd the Hulk?Well as anyone who knows the hulk will tell you, hulk is no slouch in TP resistance.
Hulk has been shown to resist the telepathic assault of people like Xemnu.
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Why is this is impressive you might ask?Well not only has he taken over the entire population of Earth, but he put down Classic Dr.Strange with his telepathy.
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I also shown Jean TP'ing the Juggernaut? Well, despite Jean only being almost Charles' lvl he puts all of his power into a single attack and what happens?
He fails to put him down, while Jean got through his defenses without any difficulty.This isn't the only time that Juggernaut has resisted Professor X's telepathy either despite his best efforts, and yet Jean did it with nearly none at all.
Charles has trouble TP'ing Gambit, although he can do it that requires his full effort and causes pain to himself and Gambit.
And yet Jean has no problem getting inside his head, hiding her presence as well as Nightcrawler's and Trinary's. And as shown, it didn't cause them any pain when she did it.
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Want more?Jean Grey while extremely weakened due to 10 billion micro sentinals killing her from the inside catches Charles' mind and retains it.
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She later(after Xorn kill Sentinals that were making her sick) splinters his mind into the minds of millions of mutants.
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Charles himself thought of such a thing to be impossible, and yet, Jean did it. Recently, it's even been established that Cassandra Nova(who has Xavier's TP and has mind swapped him in the past) is scared of Jean, and actively is avoiding direct conflict with her. Jean is superior in raw telepathic power, and That's nothing new.
Even though I agree that Jean is almost a match for Xavier in pure psionic power
Even if she only almost had the power to match him she can more than make up for it due to the fact that she can ABSORB psionic power.
so yeah, I encourage you to have Professor X not holding back against Jean so he can promptly get one shotted right after. Jean also doesn't have to stop at taking in the telepathic energy of Professor X, as she has shown that she can draw it from an entire planet of people.
So literally anyone and everyone here Jean will be drawing telepathic power from to amp herself up, she would be well beyond her normal levels of power. After Professor X(possibly Mar-Vell too pretending he hasn't been vaped yet) has unknowingly amped Jean up, he will get one shotted.
Those alone would be more than enough to make an argument, based on quantifiable feats.
Based on feats and direct comparisons, Jean is easily on par or better than Charles.
And Xavier has been repeatedly called, by narrator, to be the greatest human/mutant/earth telepath on many instances. Not something Jean can boast.
Yeah...about that.
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Charles practically admits his power isn't par with Jean's.
Jean is called the most gifted psychic emma ever encountered.
Hell, another time Charles says he is nothing compared to what Jean can become and blatantly says she is potentially the most powerful psychic in the world.
Hell, you yourself have shown that Jean needed a decent amount of time to clear Xavier's mental blocks.
My scans show Jean getting through all of Xavier's mental blocks with barely any effort in a very short amount of time.
You have to prove that Jean would be able to use her TK even when being pressured by a Xavier level telepath's TP attack,
I never even made this argument, what I was saying is that Jean's much faster than Charles and would get her attack off first. I mean,Jean has reacted to bullets
So what I am saying is, when the battle starts Jean will be able to send a TK attack before Charles can do a TP attack.
Except Charles's Telepathy would alone keep Jean so hard-pressed to even retain herself, that she would be unable to focus on other things like TK. She would need to give more than her 100% effort to even hold charles off.
Being a telepath doesn't work the way you're suggesting, Jean can be using TK and still have her telepathic defenses up. If she has her defenses up(which she obviously would) that would mean it would take time for Charles to breach her mind with his TP, although I want you to try to prove Jean can't resort to TK if they were to have a telepathic battle.
Tyrant vs Mar-Vell
No, he punched Nova once, and knocked him out. And this was Nova Prime (full novaforce).
Even massively weaker versions of Nova has tanked hits from mindcontrolled Thor,
Weaker or not, I hope you realze just how big the gap is between Tyrant and Thor.
laughed being punched to orbit,
I have Tyrant...a guy who one shot heralds and can take on Galactus....and you bring up Nova taking a punch from Rhino? A Spider-Man villain?
tanked hits from Gladiator
Cute.
Which is was true, but you conveniently didn't mention how he vaporized Hulk and other Defenders despite being so weakened,
I'm not sure why I would need to since it doesn't take away from anything I have said,but yeah, Thanos skeletonized a version of Hulk who got one shotted by Ultimate Thing. Happy?
even more conveniently you didn't post the next page, where Thanos was regaining his powers with each passing moment.
Fair point, but he was never stated to have ever gotten back at full power at any point of the comic series. Which you would agree with since you said to Hellstrom
You should either take some time to read Thanos Imperative, or read watcher's post. Thanos was weakened as hell for first half of The Thanos Imperative because of being in cancervers
Thanos came back to life after being killed by Drax one issue before his fight against Mar-Vell, so unless you can prove Thanos went from "weakened as hell" to full power in less than a full issue then we both agree he was by a significant margin weakened.
And their fight happened nearly 4 issues later (end of Thanos Imperative 5, beginning of Thanos Imperative 6).
No it didn't, this is how issue 5 ended
Thanos fight with Mar-Vell happened exclusively in issue 5.
That is when Thanos just entered Cancerverse, one issue before the scan you posted.
I know that, and nothing I said implied that I didn't.
Trashing? Well Tyrant proved himself barely superior but he wasn't trashing anyone
I said thrashing, not trashing. And Tyrant was more than barely superior, as I am getting to below.
At several points did Thanos seem to overwhelm him or atleast match him.
Thanos was powerful enough to make Tyrant feel his attacks, but really he did nothing more. Tyrant's condition at the end of the fight is no different from what it was from the start of the fight, while thanos had his armor destroyed and was visibly not the same.Tyrant was definitely above thanos, and by no means was it by some insignificantly small margin.
And their fight was inconclusive, despite 11 pages of back-and-forth struggle.
Because Thanos ran away! He had seeked out Thanos because he wanted a challenge, and the second he got one he teleported away from it. You could of course bring up what Thanos said to Tyrant but his words shouldn't taken seriously when two issues before his fight with Tyrant he confirms his intention to actually beat Tyrant.
Cosmic powers issue 4
Thanos wanted to beat not only fight Tyrant but beat him,once he saw he was losing he used his tech to teleport away while Tyrant remained uninjured.
So, while Tyrant did seem to have an advantage, it was nowhere near one-sided, Thanos seemed perfectly capable of harming Tyrant and even in the end it was inconclusive.
It was inconvlusive because he left,Tyrant was perfectly fine after the explosion they caused while Thanos had to be digging himself out of the ground. Tyrant had a significant advantage over Thanos, and was eating all of his best attacks. If Tyrant can take attacks from Galactus and Thanos with an amp he isn't going to hurt in the slightest by Mar-Vell.
And no, Thanos wasn't technically amped, since after the fight, he used tech to absorb the orb he used in the fight.
It was never stated that Thanos absorbed the Orb, but even if he did it wouldn't make a difference. Tyrant absorbed even more power after that fight.
Tyrant would have actually had to have gotten more powerful by a significant degree since the next time we see him he is a threat to Galactus(who was well fed) and nearly killed him.
Post Annihilation Thanos > Thanos post tyrant =< Tyrant
Tyrant>>>Thanos.
Tyrant fails to one-shot Surfer (although he stuns him and heavily damages him)
Resorting to lowball are we? How fun, Tyrant outright said he kept him alive so that he could drain his power in the SAME comic you got the out of context scan from.
So he obviously was holding back.
Tyrant's blasts don't blow Surfer's board apart (and likely fail to one-shot him agan)
Even after the matrix was destroyed he made it clear in his conversation with Galactus that he intended to at least have someone to draw power from, so he still had reason to hold back in the scan you shown. I mean, if that's not enough we did see that Tyrant didn't one shot Jack of Hearts in that same comic, yet the next time they fight(when Tyrant wasn't trying to drain them) he one shots him.
It's quite clear he wasn't trying to one shot them, as he needed them for their power.
Note: I'm not saying Tyrant is incapable of 0ne-shotting surfer, just that his casual blasts don't one-shot him, as proven by scans.
Posting out of context scans as your argument isn't proof. Even if your "proof" was legit Tyrant easily was dealing with SS, and got more powerful after their fight.
Advantage: Mar-vell
He doesn't have this advantage, and even if he did he can't harm Tyrant with it. Tyrant would no sell it/absorb it, and promptly vaporize Mar-Vell since he has no energy based durability feats.
Punches/physical strength:
Now, Nova's shields no-sold Canververse Thor and other revengers at the same time. Lord Marvell one-shotted his shields.
Am I missing something here? Not only do I not see Thor or anyone hitting his shields in that scan but you don't even remember how Nova's shields weren't one shotted by Mar-Vell's punches....he blasted it.
I can show more feats for his shields, but so far this should be enough to prove that Mar-vell hits harder than Tyrant
Advantage: Mar-vell again
Nope.
Speed:
while Mar-vell has a nanosecond feat
Not for his combat speed,travel speed or reaction speed. A nanosecond was all the time the annihilators had before they would be hit by his attack.
And Tyrant has had no trouble tagging Silver Surfer, who has reacted in nanosecond time spans while being drained before.
, and could react to Surfer trying to blitz him.
When? Are you talking about here?
Because this is not Mar-Vell reacting to Silver Surfer, this is him being caught off guard by Silver Surfer.
Another advantage to Mar-vell
Nope, he has tagged people who are fast like SS, so he shouldn't have any problem tagging Mar-Vell.
At best I would say they're comparable here.
The only characters who even managed to tag him properly were Nova Prime and Thanos, and Mar-vell tried to brawl with the latter due to animosity.
And? That doesn't make his combat speed any slower does it?
The only advantage Tyrant has is durability.
Oh please, not only have you not proven that Mar-Vell has a single advantage over Tyrant but you didn't even attempt to prove that Mar-Vell actually has the dutability to not be one shotted. He has no blunt force durability feats that says he won't get one shotted with a punch, and no energy based feats that says he won't be vaporized.
However, his deadpool healing factor more than makes up for it.
As I said against @shirso: a healing factor is useless if you don't have the durability to at the very least survive an attack.
So, even if Tyrant severely damages a limb, Mar-vell can heal it in moments.
If Tyrant wants to he could dismember Mar-Vell. His blades would cut through Mar-Vell like butter, and it's not like dismemberment hasn't taken down Deadpool(who's healing factor you have) before.
Deadpool vs Carnage issue #3
Not that Tyrant even needs to resort to it, since you can't prove Tyrant's casual punches won't completely spatter Mar-Vell. Or that Tyrant's casual energy blasts wouldn't vaporize him entirely.
On taking out Tyrant, I will come back on it in the second post, but so far, this should prove that they are well-matched, and I haven't even pointed out how helpful the healing factor will be.
They're as well matched as a fight between Iron man (mark 1) vs Silver Surfer would be. His healing factor won't be a factor is he is knocked out, vaporized, or taken out like Carnage has to deadpool.
Adding in Jean just makes it worse, as Jean could be boosting Tyrant with her TP after she one shots Charles.
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X-men blue issue 2 & X-Men Black Sun issue 5
Assuming she doesn't one shot LM with TP of course.
On the other hand, if we switch opponents
Mar-vell is going to last longer against Jean, or perhaps even win
I really like the wording of this statement, it implies that Mar-Vell can only last against Tyrant and not actually beat him. It also implies that Jean Grey is will likely beat Mar-Vell based on the "perhaps even win".
(due to having decent telepathy himself,
He has only read minds with it, and Jean will be a lot more powerful than usual due to all the psionic energy she has to draw from. If Mar-Vell got TP'd by Jean he is getting one shotted.
and enormous raw power advantage.
I won't deny that but her TK will be absurdly stronger than normal, and I've shown how powerful Jean can be when she draws telepathic power from the right people.Nothing will stop her from drawing telepathic power from everyone on the planet(my fodder, Charles, Mar-Vell,ect.) which will make her an even bigger threat than she already is.
Jean could casually stop his heart with her TK.
Or she could put her consciousness inside Mar-Vell, like she did to Emma once in uncanny x men issue 281.If Jean did that here then Ma-Vell would be beyond fodder, as he would be in Jean's body but without any of her actual powers. Jean could go a step further and go into Tyrant's body, so that I would have a Ten pointer with high tier TP/TK, which would destroy any chance of Charles or Mar-Vell putting down Tyrant.
Jean could casually shut off Mar-Vell's mind though, so none of that is needed.
Xavier on the other hand, can handily drop telepathically featless Tyrant.
After being blasted into nothingness? Xavier would get one shotted effortlessly by Tyrant and this isn't up for debate.
Your fodder doesn't last a nanosecond, except they don't need an annihilators-busting blast.
Mar-Vell would be too busy getting slaughtered to kill them, but even if he did it changes nothing. I can easily argue Jean beating Charles in TP alone, TK included just makes it an effortless stomp.
Summary for your team
You don't have the means to win at all.
Jean is MORE than a match for Charles in telepathy alone,can one shot him with TK, and will get amped even further by Professor X's telepathic assault. Charles literally can't win, Jean has the means to one shot him while Professor X can't one shot Jean. Even if Professor X went all out like you said he will nothing changes, Jean is on par with him or outright better in telepathic power and will just be using his telepathic assault to make herself more powerful.
Lord Mar-Vell has no advantages over Tyrant thus far, and can't even hurt Tyrant. Any energy blast sent at Tyrant will be no sold and absorbed, Mar-Vell himself has no durability feats to say that Tyrant wouldn't punch his head off or vaporize him with a casual blast.A healing factor won't save you, as I've said before they only matter if you have the durability to survive an attack, and Mar-Vell has no feats that suggest he can survive Tyrant's casual energy blasts.
You yourself don't even sound confident about Mar-Vell beating Tyrant or Jean.
If we switch opponents nothing changes. Tyrant vaporizes Charles, and the heavily amped up Jean Grey will shut down Mar-Vell's mind.
Congratulations for being the new high tier champion!!!!
I just read your post.
While I do have some counters, especially Tyrant/Mar-vell part, which I strongly disagree with, you have convinced me that Xavier stands no chance against Jean, and she could very likely beat Mar-vell as well.
I'm not sold on your take of Tyrant-Marvell fight but the first half of your post has convinced me that I cannot win this match, and if I myself am convinced I lose, then how can I convince others? I did not know that current Jean was this powerful.
The only thing I have to say is, @emperorthanos-Jean grey is heavily underpriced. She should be atleast worth 4 points or 5 points.
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