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#1 Edited by emperorthanos- (16600 posts) - - Show Bio

It's time for the Finals!!

@thewatcherking

Characters

  • DP Tyrant(10)
  • Jean Grey(2)
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Perks

  • Magic immunity(8)
  • 2 more character points(5)
  • 500 Chitrarui(2)
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@major_hellstrom

Characters

  • The Darkness (6)
  • Darkling (1)
  • Reed Richards (2)
  • Manchester Black (3)
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Perks:

  • Extra Character Points 2 (5)
  • No Friendly Fire (5)
  • 3 hours of pre
  • Spider Sense Black 1
  • Spidey Sense for Darkness (1)
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@apex_pretador

Characters

  • Lord Marvell (8)
  • Charles Xavier (2)
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Perks

  • Magic immunity (8)
  • Deadpool healing (7) to Lord Marvell

Rules

  1. Win by Death, Incap or KO.
  2. Standard Gear.
  3. No time manipulation.
  4. No speed steal
  5. No BFR.
  6. No reality warping
  7. No Summons stronger than 616 spider-man.
  8. Summons are limited to 200
  9. Cloning is limited to 10

Voting Rules:

  1. Vote for the better debater
  2. Do not vote on which character you think you will win
  3. Give reasoning to your vote.
  4. I will count the total votes
  5. If I feel a vote is unjustified or biased I will not count it.

Battle ground

Indestructible planet inside a Solar System like others, with no other people on it except for the fighters.

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#2 Posted by emperorthanos- (16600 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18616 posts) - - Show Bio

How is this open for voting before anyone even posted?

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#4 Posted by emperorthanos- (16600 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18616 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by emperorthanos- (16600 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by Chimeroid (9268 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V ofc

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#8 Posted by shirso (4670 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by TheHierarchy (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V, interested in DP Tyrant and Lord Mar-Vell

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#10 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18616 posts) - - Show Bio
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#12 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18035 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking: I want to go second. Going first means you get the least amount of counters.

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#13 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18616 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking: I want to go second. Going first means you get the least amount of counters.

Hopefully Apex is fine with going first then.

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#14 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18035 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking: Actually if he isn't then I can but I would reserve the right to make a 4th post if I deem necessary.

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#15 Edited by TheWatcherKing (18616 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: That's fine by me as long as you don't intentionally add new stuff that me and Apex won't have a chance to counter.

Although I do think you're exaggerating how much of a disadvantage going first gives you.

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#16 Posted by XLR87T3 (10201 posts) - - Show Bio

Please tag me when it's ready for votes! This is going to be epic!

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#17 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18035 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking: Don't worry, I don't fight dirty. Not like I can hold back for 3 posts either, lol.

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#18 Posted by APEX_pretador (21338 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by APEX_pretador (21338 posts) - - Show Bio

Whoever has prep goes first

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#20 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18035 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: I never understood why. Your teams don't know what happens in my prep so there isn't any reason you should.

But anyway, like I told Watcher, I could go first but if I do I would reserve the right for a 4th post to your guy's 3.

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#21 Posted by APEX_pretador (21338 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: You should go first. I don't have any idea about half of your characters

And don't worry, I usually don't do most of the counters in openers

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#22 Posted by APEX_pretador (21338 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by APEX_pretador (21338 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18035 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: Okay. Will post in 3 days or so.

I will assume that means you are with with me getting another counter btw. Otherwise I will be at a disadvantage of getting the least amount of counters.

Edit: Also I will be unlikely to actually do a 4th but I just say this just in case

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#25 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18035 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by emperorthanos- (16600 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18035 posts) - - Show Bio

The Four Horsemen of Apocalypse

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The Darkness

Jackie Estacado is the current host of The Darkness present on Earth and is among the greatest and most powerful hosts ever known. He is a former hitman for The Franchetti Mafiaafter he was adopted and recruited by Frankie Franchettiunder Sonatine's instructions at age 6. He is the twin brother of Capris Castiglioneand the son of Danny Estacado and an unknown prostitute and was born somewhere in New York City, New York.

He retired from Frankie's service after his encounter with Batman, which encouraged him to turn Frankie over to the authorities and retire from the mob, but at the cost of his girlfriend Jenny Romano, whom Frankie murdered in retaliation. Torn with grief, Jackie led Frankie to an abandoned warehouse soaked in gasoline and burned both himself and Frankie to death.

He spent some time in Hell until The Darkness brought him back to life. He was blackmailed into working for Frankie's cousin Paulie Franchetti for some time, until he killed him as well and took control of The Franchetti Mafia. While possessed by The Darkness, he had sex with and impregnated a comatose Sara Pezzini, making him the father of Hope Pezzini. He was a drug lord in Sierra Munoz along with Professor Kirchner until he was betrayed and nearly killed by The Darkness himself, casting his soul into Hell. Jackie also helped to destroy The Sovereign, but at the cost of Leonard Kim's life.

The Darknes.wikia
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Manchester Black

Manchester Black was the Union Jack wearing leader of a team of super-powered antiheroes known as The Elite. Very little is known about the Englishman's background; what little that is known include insinuations that he was abused both physically and sexually by his parents while growing up. Manchester later says that he used to love heroes, but when he grew up he realized that the only way to truly stop the villains was to kill them.

DC Wiki
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Darkling

She isn't popular to have a wiki entry, so I will; just post her origin. Straight from the comics.

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World's Finest #278
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Mr. Fantastic

Reed Richards, also known as Mr. Fantastic, is the leader of the Fantastic Four. He can stretch his body to great distances due to his exposure to cosmic rays while in space. He is also considered to be one of the smartest men alive.

The Set Up

In my set up I will be doing 3 things, 1. Make the Darkness a genius. 2. Create the factory. 3. Set up battle stations.

Mind Over Matter

First things first, Manchester will give the Darkness Reed's intelligence. He can do this in two ways

The first way is much more simple but less concrete, he can simply transfer all of Reed's knowledge and blueprints into Jackie's head. Something he may not have directly done but should have no problem doing as lesser telepaths have been able to extract information from well-protected minds before

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And it isn't as if Black has no experience with messing with memory either, he has been shown to erase memories in the past.

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So I don't think it would be a stretch to say that Black would be able to transfer information from one mind to another.

But if you want a more concrete alternative, Manchester Black can simply swap Jackie and Reed's minds, which he has done before.

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And yes, that was Black he was given credit at the end. Also, he was only strained since MMH tried to undo the damage.

And then Black could make Darkness Reed hate your team so he would have Jackie's morals. Black has also done this before.

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But whichever method my team may take, the end result will be that the Darkness will have Reed's intelligence. Which means that he will be able to create anything and everything Reed has ever made. Because remember, the Darkness only needs to know how something works to make it

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It is a subconscious ability

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And it can create something as complex as a human

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Or as large as a citywide maze.

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And yes, he can create technology, such as working computers

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TLDR: Jackie gains Reed's intelligence and memories one way or another which gives him the ability to create Reed's tech with a thought.

The Factory

With this merging of intelligence and power, I will be creating the factory, the main base of operations for my team during prep time. The factory is basically just where my team will manufacture our gear and make our plans. Now the factory will be made out of 3 things, 1. Darkling's dark sphere. 2. The Bridge. 3. Workers.

First things first, Darkling will create an expanding darkness aura around the area that only high-level magic can pierce. This will be the factory itself.

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World's Finest #278

As you can see Darkling covers 100 square miles in darkness, and her darkness grows at an outstanding rate. In 3 hours, it should be able to cover the planet, as in minutes her sphere has grown 50x its original size.

Same issue
Same issue

We also get confirmation that the Darkling has that kind of range, though she doesn't say how long it would take, I think 3 hours is enough to cover at least half of the planet (which is all that would be needed since the other half would be facing away from the sun).

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Darkling's statements should also be treated with an air of credibility since she seemingly has the ability to sense information (or something like it). Which is why she knows the exact area her darkness cover and the secret identities of the Marvel Family.

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This would give the Darkness a lot more range and legroom to work his magic, which will come in handy for creating high-grade technology.

Next thing I will need for my factory is the Bridge, the Bridge being Reed's inter-dimensional window. This will be the mainframe of my factory. The Bridge can see the future and past of any given dimension, which will be incredibly useful later on.

New Avengers
New Avengers

This includes the dimension my team is in

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New Avengers

Not only that but the Bridge can mine data from one billion universes, showing the user the history of that universe among other things.

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So basically, we can set the Bridge to mine any dimension similar to the one we are in and see up to two hours ahead in the future AKA we can see the future and all possible realities, we see what can be done and what has been done. All before your team even steps into the battlefield, which means that my team can prep specifically for your team (more on that later).

The last thing I will need is my workers, which will be comprised of a swarm of worker bots and managers. The worker bots will be Reed's Herbie. Herbie is able to compute much faster than Reed can, it can solve an equation that would have taken Reed hours to solve in mere seconds.

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And what will the managers be? Well, they complex darklings, much like Elle

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Elle, being a darkness construct, also has access to some level of darkness powers much like Jackie. Here she is creating darkness tendrils.

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She even took over his darklings and used them against him.

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Now I realize that I probably won't get away with calling humanoid darklings constructs (though they are) but I am fine with them being considered clones as I only need 3-5 of them.

Also, it should be important to note that the location of the factory is on the blue planet.

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Which means that we will have an entire planet to ourselves, because as ET confirmed, you will be spawning in the red indestructible planet.

TLDR: Darkling will spawn her darkness aura where my team will work. Jackie creates the Bridge so the team can prep for the battle. He then creates bots that can compute faster than Reed and darklings with control of the darkness which will help my team work much faster and more efficiently.

The Fight Preparations

In these sections, I will be detailing what my team will be doing during prep time and the two contingency plans my team could use. Unlike before, I'll try to make thing less convoluted and I will be putting out a majority of my feats right from the get-go so my following posts won't be as long. But before that, how about a mood setter?

Battle Music

I find this song to be quite fitting for what comes next

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Plan A

Now my strategy this time around will take into account two things, 1. The fact that most would think that my team is underpowered in comparison to my opponents. 2. That most would think that my team is slower in comparison to my opponents. So before anyone tries to write me off by saying they surface wipe me as soon as the battle starts, let me just preemptively counter that with the power of prep. See, the power of prep and future knowledge allows me to strike first because before you even get into the battlefield, we would already by blasting the spot you will spawn into. Basically, we're ambushing you.

Now with that out of the way, let me now detail exactly what we use to ambush your team. But first, I will set up the stage, by detailing what the battle stations will be in this plan.

Battle stations

For this plan, my team will make 2 battle stations, one for each team. In each station, Jackie will create hoards of Darklings, each armed with weapons straight out of the factory.

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Both stations should still be within rnge of Darkling's sphere of darklings so they should still be under the protection of impeterable darkness. After the battle stations are set up, Jackie will then create a portal

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Before stepping into the reducto cycle and shrinking into molecule size.

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They portal into the atmosphere or any place Jackie can view the battle from a remote location. Remember darkness gives him a version of omnipresence.

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VS Tyrant

So against Tyrant, my team's main way of taking him out will be arming the battle station assigned to him with depowering weaponry. But before that, I want to show Reed's ability to use prep to counter specific characters, just so you can get a feel for Reed's brilliance. Here are a few examples.

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As you can see he depowers Blastaar with a helmet, neutralizes the Hulk with one blast and reverses Magneto's powers back into himself to create a cage. Now, these are all really good prep feats showing Reed's ability to depower and defeat individuals with his gear, but now that you have seen how smart and versatile Reed can be, it is time to show you how good he is at depowering powerful being like Tyrant.

Let's start off slow, let's start with Reed creating missiles which depowered a fellow herald, the Silver Surfer. He did this using a Sonic Shark Missile, a missile that drained the Silver Surfer affecting him throughout the era, creating long-lasting damage to Surfer.

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It almost completely drained Surfer and killed him (but thanks to the FF it did not).

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But I know what you are thinking, Tyrant is much more powerful than Surfer, and you are right. But Reed has depowered more powerful beings than Surfer as well. Only using Quasar's energy manipulation and Johnny's cosmic power, he instructed Quasar on how to make a weapon that would defeat a hungry Galactus.

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But that did more than just defeat Galactus, it robbed him of his power, turning into a middle-aged looking man.

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And even if you think Tyrant is more powerful than Galactus since Galactus was hungry in this instance, he certainly isn't more powerful than a cosmic cube., which Reed also depowered.

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A cosmic cube is a device that can warp reality, with it Thanos beats the most powerful beings in the universe

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Even a deformed cube can warp the entire planet

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And just to take it a step further, with minimal information Reed also created a device to depower the Cosmic Egg, which is 30 cosmic cubes bundled together.

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TLDR: Reed has the capability to create weapons that counter and\or depower Tyrant with prep. He will tailor make weapons just for Tyrant and arm an army of darklings with his weapons (which is actually overkill IMO but you can never be too sure). The army will then fire at where Tyrant will spawn before he does, so when he arrives he would be depowered right from the start.

VS Lord Mar-Vell

Honestly, I could likely get away with using my strategy against Tyrant and just re-apply it here, but due to Mar-Vell's powers being of a different nature and the fact that he has nanosecond feats, meaning a possible speed argument could be formed, I am not going to reuse my argument. Instead, I will be zoning on a hunch I had, which is Deadpool's healing factor may be compensating for something. With that in mind, I will use my trusty anti-matter bombs on him, the planet-busting bombs.

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Which, Reed already reversed engineered with BP so he would know how to build them.

New Avengers Vol. 3 #3
New Avengers Vol. 3 #3

And again, the bombs would be set to explode at the spawn point, half a second before you even arrive. Which means there will be no avoiding the attack because you will beam into the very epicenter of the blast. I would imagine something like this would happen

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And yes Thanos was disintegrated by an anti-matter weapon, and yes I did only use that scan because I know you love Thanos :P

TLDR: Lord Mar-Vell is getting teleported into his anti-matter doom.

Plan B

If you readers are unconvinced that plan A would work, fear not, for I have another trick up my sleeve. See plan A relies heavily on the idea that my armies could kill my enemies in seconds as soon as the battle begins, which can be a tough pill to swallow given how much they cost. So Plan B will be a continuous assault on my enemies. But before I get into the whole plan B, I want to make clear that my team will only be using either plan A or B depending on what the Bridge reveals.

Potent Predictions

So this will just be a short section detailing how good my team is at prediction. Of course, we have the aftermentioned Bridge, but we also have other means of prediction. The two most notable ones being Jackie's death sense and Reed's intellectual predictions.

Jackie's death sense allows him to see how someone will die.

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And Reed's genius allows him to predict things down to the instant.

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There are a lot of instances of these but to keep things short, I am just going to show those scans. Now, with the death perception, Reed's intellect, and the Bridge, my team will know what's going to happen, what could happen, how you are going to die, and how to use that information to make accurate predictions.

The Armory

So for plan B, we will be arming the darklings with a lot more weapons. First and foremost, they will have guns tailor-made to depower your powerhouses, which I covered above, but we will also arm them with.....

Shrinking Rays

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Stasis Guns

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But those two weapons are just meant to confuse your teams. The real threats will be the anti-matter weapons. Like this anti-matter gun which shut down Franklin's mind as it was building up to solar system level power.

Anti-Matter Gun

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And remember, even toddler Franklin was OP.

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And last but certainly not least, the MVP, the Entropy Gun.

Entropy Gun

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TLDR: We will be making more gear to confuse you and take you out.

The Plan

You know what we are packing and you know how smart we are. That was all leading up to this. See the plan here is to get both of my enemies to go after each other before engaging, which is as easy as leaving the battlefield, because if my team isn't there then you will have no choice but to fight one because you don't know where my team is and you can't go looking else you would risk leaving yourself open to the opposition. Now you might be wondering where will my team be while you battle, and that is the genius of the situation, we will be at the factory, see the factory now will be our battle station, we will create a portal from the factory to the battlefield, so can send troops of darklings from a safe distance.

So the factory will look something like this. But with a smaller gate, more tech, and pitch black.

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So while you two battle, my team will be expanding our armies and creating more weaponry using Darkling's impenetrable darkness. Before systematically sending them out in droves at the perfect time (which again we would know thanks to all our prediction abilities). Meaning every once in a while, you would be seeing something like this coming at you with potent weaponry, enough to take on space gods.

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TLDR When the fight begins you guys will only see one team as your opponent, each other, and thus you will battle each other. Andafter you two have worn each other out, my team will send a troop of armed darklings at waves during the most opportune times. All the while staying a safe distance away from the battlefield, a world apart from the battlefield, to be precise. Personally, I believe both your teams would be crippled by the second wave and killed by the third, but it doesn't really matter how many waves it takes because Jackie can always make more.

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Summary

Basically, we have one advantage, your teams are coming to us. And what that means is, since I am the only team with prep here, it will give me the opportunity to either strike first or manufacture a situation where you two fight each other while I can safely send troops at my leisure. Both situations are game changers because I believe that my team has enough firepower to take either of you guys out given the opportunity, especially with the army, and these are perfect opportunities. Meanwhile, you will have no opportunity to strike my team in either scenario.

P.S. Your fodder die in the sameblast that takes out Lord Mar-Vell.

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#28 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18035 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: @thewatcherking: Alright, I have revealed my deck, either I smash or get smashed, let's see what happens. But for now, it is someone else's turn. But I want to offer some advice, you should choose whether you will go after my prep (AKA the possibility of it) or my strategy, because if you counter both then I will have to respond with a lengthy post. Just saying, so you can't complain if it happens. Lol.

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#29 Edited by TheWatcherKing (18616 posts) - - Show Bio

A draining strat for Tyrant? This will be easy.

@major_hellstrom said:

@apex_pretador: @thewatcherking: Alright, I have revealed my deck, either I smash or get smashed, let's see what happens. But for now, it is someone else's turn. But I want to offer some advice, you should choose whether you will go after my prep (AKA the possibility of it) or my strategy, because if you counter both then I will have to respond with a lengthy post. Just saying, so you can't complain if it happens. Lol.

Assuming I go next I'll only counter your strategy, I don't want to have to deal with several hundred long posts.

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#30 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18035 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking: That is only Plan A.

Assuming I go next I'll only counter your strategy, I don't want to have to deal with several hundred long posts.

When do you think you will be able to post? Cause you should probably go next if it is soon.

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#31 Edited by TheWatcherKing (18616 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by APEX_pretador (21338 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll try to post next

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#33 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18035 posts) - - Show Bio
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#34 Posted by APEX_pretador (21338 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18616 posts) - - Show Bio
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#36 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Edited by emperorthanos- (16600 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenewguysnm1: no not this final. The other final that needs votes

This one

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/2017-high-tier-pyp-2nd-edition-finals-majinblackhe-1926153/?page=3#js-message-118

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#38 Edited by APEX_pretador (21338 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador said:

@thewatcherking: if you are able to post before me then go ahead

I'll probably wait until after you post,but okay.

I'm free on 13th onwards. If you can post before 13 then go ahead.

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#39 Posted by APEX_pretador (21338 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18616 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador:Then I guess I'll go next,my post will be up on friday.

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#41 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18616 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: It's not important to my post but what comic are the galactus draining scans from?

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#42 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18035 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking: Somewhere between Fantastic Four 500-550. can't recall the specifics off the top of my head, and since it isn't important, I'm too lazy to check my collection.

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#43 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18035 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Posted by APEX_pretador (21338 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Edited by TheWatcherKing (18616 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: Just so I'm perfectly clear, for plan A your team will come to the red planet to attack and on plan B you will send your army from the blue planet?

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#46 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18035 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking: No. For plan A an army will drain Tyrabt while anti-matter bombs get set off. For plan B we send armies with an S at you systematically.

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#47 Edited by TheWatcherKing (18616 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom said:

@thewatcherking: No. For plan A an army will drain Tyrabt while anti-matter bombs get set off. For plan B we send armies with an S at you systematically.

So both times it's the army on the red planet attacking? Alright.

Edit: because it seems like jackie would go onto through the portal to view the battle.

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#48 Posted by emperorthanos- (16600 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18616 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos-: I already said it would be up later today, I finished my counters I just need to edit a few things.

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#50 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18035 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking: I didn't see your edit for you last post btw. Which plan is Jackie going through the pirtal?