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#1 Edited by MyLittleFascist (31796 posts) - - Show Bio

Characters:

  • 8- Johnny Sorrow
  • 6- Thor (IDW)

Perks:

  • 2- Adamantium Upgrade (Mjolnir)
  • 2- Invisibility (Johnny Sorrow)
  • 1- Spider Senses (Thor)
  • 5- Two Extra Character Points
  • 5- Two Extra Character Points

@major_hellstrom:

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VS

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@gearsecond659

Characters:

  • 4- Perona
  • 8- Brook

Perks:

  • 5- Two Extra Character Points
  • 2- Invisibility for Perona
  • 7- Teleportation for Perona
  • 1- Spider Sense for Perona

Map: Republic City (LoK)

Start Randomly About 100 Yards From Each Other... City is Deserted
Start Randomly About 100 Yards From Each Other... City is Deserted

Mood Setter:

Rules:

  • Time Manipulation Cannot Be Used Directly On Opponents
  • No BFR
  • Characters Have Basic Knowledge On Team Members
  • All Supernatural Energies Are Equalized
  • Victory through death or incapacitation
  • Aim for 3 posts each
  • Shapeshifters do not lose equipment when transformed
  • Summons Limited To 15
  • Marvel/DC Are Standard. All Others are Composite Unless Stated Otherwise
  • Game Characters With Multiple Build Paths Can Choose Load Out Before Each Match
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#2 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659:

This is probably the simplest team I have used in a tourney and it is smallest team I have ever used in the tourney, so let's see how this goes.

The One Shot Kings

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Theme Song

This song felt very fitting for my team, because if you face them you will only be met with desolation and Ragnarok (the death of the gods).

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The Breakdown

Now you might be wondering why I call this duo the King of One Shots, well in this section I'll show you 2-3 ways my team can one shot, starting with Johnny Sorrow

The Demon and His Gaze

So basically, Johnny Sorrow has one main ability and that is his ability to kill a person just by taking off his mask.

JSA All Stars (2010) #1
JSA All Stars (2010) #1

With this he can kill or rather defeat just about anybody, here is an example. In this scan he shows his face to Captain Atom (DC's Silver Surfer) who is horrified and has to teleport to the future to survive.

JLA/JSA Vice & Virtue
JLA/JSA Vice & Virtue

In the same comic as above he takes out Despero, which means not even a teambusting telepath can stand looking at Sorrow's face

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Now, that should do it for the stare, other important things to know is that he is intangible with his mask on.

JSA #10
JSA #10

TLDR He has deadly good looks and is intangible passively.

The God of Thunder

Now IDW Thor (who comes from the Ragnarok series of comics) has two potential ways to one shot, the first way is more traditional, and will only work if you lack energy durability, you see IDW Thor has firepower so awesome, that MCU Thor would feel less manly by just looking at it.

He was able to call down lightning so powerful that he one shots an entire fortress in one go,.

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As well as incinerate a small army in one blast.

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But that's just the secondary reason why I got him, the primary reason is his hammer throw. With it, he can take out multiple enemies at once like Yondu

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As well as blow up the head of a dragon demon.

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That is OP, but now imagine that Mjolnir is made out of the same stuff that allows Wolverine to cut into high tiers and you've got a weapon that should be able to cleave through any opponent.

Thor also has Senzu Bean like apple crusts that restore his strength as well as a zombie/goat/horse mount thing.

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TLDR Unless you have good energy resistance feats, you get one shot but you get one shot either way unless you can tank a high speed Adamantium hammer crashing against your face. Add this with Sorrow's stare and you will need 3 different types of resistances just to prove you don't get OHKO'd.

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#4 Edited by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

BROOK AND PERONA: THE SOUL KING AND THE SPIRIT EMPRESS

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THEME

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BROOK

WEAPONS

SOUL SOLID

Brook's weapon: Soul Solid, is a sword that Brook channels his soul energy into, imbuing the sword with the ability to freeze enemies when they are slashed with the sword.

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Slide 1 - Brook freezes a Fishman

Slide 2 - While guarding, Brook freezes an enemies arm

Slide 3 & 4 - Brook freezes guns

Slide 5 - Brook freezes cannonballs in mid air

Slide 6 - Brook freezes the ground

VIOLIN

While unconventional, Brook's violin is one of his greatest assets in any fight. Brook frequently makes use of his violin mid combat, playing songs that manipulate the soul of the opponent, which in turn creates a variety of effects.

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Slides 1 & 2 - Brook puts his enemies to sleep

Slides 3 & 4 - Brook hypnotizes his opponents into thinking they are at a parade even though they are in the middle of a battle

With Brook's powerful weapon in Soul Solid combined with his Violin, Brook can quite easily dispose of his enemies, putting them to sleep or hypnotizing him before they can do anything and then finishing them off with a sword strike.

SPEED

Brook's biggest advantage against Johnny Sorrow and Thor is his speed.

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Slide 1 - Brook moves at FTE speeds, tagging multiple enemies before they can even react

Slides 2 & 3 - Brook moves at FTE speeds again, freezing his opponents guns without them even realizing it

Brook is so fast that he can even slash multiple people with one attack at FTE speeds.

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But Brook's best feat of speed is when he slashed an opponent so fast that he could walk several feet away and several seconds could go by before the his opponent would even realize they were slashed.

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Neither Johnny Sorrow nor Thor have the speed to be able to react to an attack from Brook and to be honest, I really just seeing the team getting speed blitzed by Brook.

DURABILITY

Now the durability section I am going to keep relatively short as I don't see Brook being tagged by Thor nor do I see Johnny Sorrow even having the chance to take off his mask before Brook can blitz him. However, to cover all my bases, I just want to note that Brook has very good resistance to lightning based attacks and has pretty good blunt force durability.

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Slide 1 - Brook getting electrocuted as a part of a battle strategy the Straw Hats came up with

Slide 2 - Brook gets stepped on by a giant with the powers of Luffy (seeing as how Luffy's blows can level buildings and that Oars is stronger than Luffy, this is very impressive)

So on the off chance that Brook does get tagged by Thor, it won't do that much damage to him.

PERONA

PERKS

Before I go into Perona's abilities, I want to address Perona's perks.

  • Invissibility
  • Teleportation
  • Spider Sense

I will go into the applications for these abilities throughout this post.

NEGATIVE HOLLOWS

Perona's main ability is to create an unlimited amount of ghost or Hollows that have a variety of effects. Her most notable Hollow and the one she is most likely to use during combat is her Negative Hollow, a ghost that, upon passing through another person, immediately makes said person feel depressed, causing them to lose the will to fight.

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Slide 1 - Negative Hollows are intangible and can multiply

Slide 2 & 3 - The Negative Hollows make Franky, Luffy, and Zoro intangible

Slide 4 - Negative Hollows tag Franky and Sanji

Since the Negative Hollows were able to tag Sanji, Zoro and Luffy, all of which are lightning timers, that means that Perona's Negative Hollows move at MHS + speeds.

Now, if that wasn't enough, Perona has invisibility, making her Negative Hollows invisible as well. So not only can't Johnny Sorrow nor Thor see the Negative Hollows, but they also don't have the reaction speed to dodge them, meaning before they can even attack, Perona can tag them with a Negative Hollow, causing them to lose the will to fight and leaving them to be finished off by Brook.

SPIRIT PROJECTION

Perona's most powerful ability is the ability to remove her spirit from her body. While this leaves her body vulnerable, with invisibility and teleportation, Perona can easily hide her body without Johnny Sorrow nor Thor knowing where to look.

As a spirit, Perona is very powerful, and with her invisibility, she will definitely be too much for Johnny Sorrow and Thor to handle.

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Slide 1 - Perona can split her body into multiple Negative Hollows

Slide 2 & 3 - Perona can manipulate her size and can fly

Slide 4 & 5 - Perona is completely intangible

And remember, Perona is invisible, meaning that Perona can easily just split into a Negative Hollow and tag them, or grow to gargantuan sizes and just step on them without them even realizing she was there.

CONCLUSION

SCENARIOS

SCENARIO 1

The first scenario of this fight is where Johnny Sorrow attempts to pull off his mask. Brook uses his speed to blitz Johnny Sorrow before he can even pull off his mask, killing him. Now while he may be intangible with his mask on, it is not a passive thing, meaning that Brook should be more than capable of speed blitzing him before he can go intangible. Perona then teleports away, leaves her body as a spirit, and teleports back. Brook then double team Thor, with Perona using her Negative Hollow to make Thor depressed, leaving him vulnerable to a finishing blow from Brook.

SCENARIO 2

As Johnny Sorrow reaches for his mask, Perona's spider sense goes off and Perona shoots a Negative Hollow at Johnny Sorrow at MHS + speeds, causing him to lose the will to fight. Brook then finishes Johnny Sorrow off before tag teaming Thor.

SCENARIO 3

Brook plays his Violin, putting both Johnny Sorrow and Thor into a trance. While they are hypnotized, Brook cuts them both down, immediately ending the fight.

SUMMARY

On the whole, Brook and Perona are just too much for Johnny Sorrow and Thor. Brook is just too fast for Johnny Sorrow and Thor to keep up with and Johnny Sorrow and Thor have no answer for Perona's hax abilities. Perona's spider sense, invisibility, and teleportation ensures that she won't be tagged at all by Johnny Sorrow and Thor, especially considering that she can always go into her spirit form. In addition, Brook's speed ensures that he won't be tagged by Thor or Johnny Sorrow. The biggest threat is Johnny Sorrow, but both Brook and Perona have the abilities to be able to take out Johnny quickly before he can even react, leaving Thor. And despite his strength, he can't handle Perona's Negative Hollows and Brook's speed.

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#5 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659:

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Counters

Opener

Neither Johnny Sorrow nor Thor have the speed to be able to react to an attack from Brook and to be honest, I really just seeing the team getting speed blitzed by Brook.

I haven't even showed speed feats yet, so either you are assuming this the be the case or know both IDW Thor and Johnny Sorrow, which I doubt.

Slide 1 - Brook getting electrocuted as a part of a battle strategy the Straw Hats came up with

As how powerful was that electricity? Thor incinerated an entire fortress, simply having some resistance doesn't automatically mean you can tank it.

Slide 2 - Brook gets stepped on by a giant with the powers of Luffy (seeing as how Luffy's blows can level buildings and that Oars is stronger than Luffy, this is very impressive)

So on the off chance that Brook does get tagged by Thor, it won't do that much damage to him.

Adamantium can cut mountain level+ high tiers so you'll have to do better than that.

Now, if that wasn't enough, Perona has invisibility, making her Negative Hollows invisible as well.

Why would her being invisible make it invisible?

So not only can't Johnny Sorrow nor Thor see the Negative Hollows, but they also don't have the reaction speed to dodge them, meaning before they can even attack, Perona can tag them with a Negative Hollow, causing them to lose the will to fight and leaving them to be finished off by Brook.

Again, I don't know where you got that idea, but alright.

And remember, Perona is invisible, meaning that Perona can easily just split into a Negative Hollow and tag them, or grow to gargantuan sizes and just step on them without them even realizing she was there.

Well, she would die before either thing happens.

Scenarios

The first scenario of this fight is where Johnny Sorrow attempts to pull off his mask. Brook uses his speed to blitz Johnny Sorrow before he can even pull off his mask, killing him.

Can Brook hit intangibles ? Remember, Sorrow can quite literally stand in a crowded battlefield and be untouched by anything

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Also you kept saying you were going to blitz Sorrow, but if you really want to go that route, you better be hiding some really good speed feats, because Sorrow can manipulate Firestorm and Alan Scott's energy blasts as they are coming towards him.

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Just to give you some perspective, Firestorm alone is fast enough to block lightspeed blasts point blank

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And Alan Scott is about one or two tiers above that, his blasts near instantly cover this distance

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It's dwarfing a planet btw. So yeah, Sorrow reacted to both of their attacks casually. Tell me again how you are blitzing him?

Perona then teleports away, leaves her body as a spirit, and teleports back. Brook then double team Thor, with Perona using her Negative Hollow to make Thor depressed, leaving him vulnerable to a finishing blow from Brook.

You don't even get passed the first step so this this isn't valid anymore.

As Johnny Sorrow reaches for his mask, Perona's spider sense goes off and Perona shoots a Negative Hollow at Johnny Sorrow at MHS + speeds, causing him to lose the will to fight. Brook then finishes Johnny Sorrow off before tag teaming Thor.

Or, Sorrow reaches for his mask, pulls it off, and kills your team before either of you even make it half way.

Brook plays his Violin, putting both Johnny Sorrow and Thor into a trance. While they are hypnotized, Brook cuts them both down, immediately ending the fight.

Now this is just silly, how is Brook supposed to play a tune before Sorrow takes off his mask? Also can he even effect people from 300 feet away?

Summary

Basically you are relying on your hax and your speed, which is what I shall be doing as well, so let us compare

ComparisonJohnny SorrowPerona and Brook
How fast (person)Can react to lightspeed blasts from a few feet away with easeAre MHS+
How fast (attack)Johnny's attacks are as fast as sight, which is how fast light bounces of his head and into your eyesAlso MHS+
What's neededSorrow just needs to pull off his mask

Brook or a Hollow have to close the gap of 100 yards (300 feet) then cut into Sorrow before Sorrow lifts his mask

Which means Johnny can react faster, attack faster and needs to do less to win. Sorrow solos in the blink of an eye.

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#7 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

REBUTTAL

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COUNTERS

BROOK VS JOHNNY SORROW

Can Brook hit intangibles ? Remember, Sorrow can quite literally stand in a crowded battlefield and be untouched by anything

Again, his intangibility is not passive so he starts off being tangible. This means that it is possible for Brook to tag Johnny before he can turn intantaible with his immense speed, which I will elaborate on below.

Also you kept saying you were going to blitz Sorrow, but if you really want to go that route, you better be hiding some really good speed feats, because Sorrow can manipulate Firestorm and Alan Scott's energy blasts as they are coming towards him.

This isn't impressive in the slightest.

Just to give you some perspective, Firestorm alone is fast enough to block lightspeed blasts point blank

Just because Firestorm has FTL reactions doesn't mean his energy blast move at FTL speeds. You are going to need speed feats a little more concrete than that.

And Alan Scott is about one or two tiers above that, his blasts near instantly cover this distance

Oh please. Alan Scott was clearly putting all of his power into that attack, and put nowhere near around that level of effort when attacking Johnny. I mean even visually, his energy blast at Johnny Sorrow was significantly thinner and smaller than the energy blast he fired down at Earth.

It's dwarfing a planet btw. So yeah, Sorrow reacted to both of their attacks casually. Tell me again how you are blitzing him?

Again, you are going to need more concrete speed feats if you want to prove that Johnny Sorrow would be able to react to Brook's attack.

Now this is just silly, how is Brook supposed to play a tune before Sorrow takes off his mask? Also can he even effect people from 300 feet away?

Touche. However, Brook should still be more than capable of speed blitzing Sorrow even without his Violin.

PERONA

Why would her being invisible make it invisible?

Touche. I didn't realize that the invisibility perk didn't apply to her attacks, but upon asking the host, it is confirmed it doesn't. However, don't forget that in Perona's spiritual form, she can split herself into Negative Hollows, and since the Negative Hollows are technically her body, the invisibility still applies to them.

Well, she would die before either thing happens.

How? Her spider sense would forewarn her of the danger of Johnny Sorrow taking off his mask, and with Nightcrawlers teleportation, Perona could quite simply teleport away so she isn't in Johnny's line of sight.

Or, Sorrow reaches for his mask, pulls it off, and kills your team before either of you even make it half way.

Perona's spider sense and teleportation ensures that she will definitely be able to evade Sorrow's attack. Or, Perona could just leave her body and become a spirit, leaving her real body with the invisibility perk so it will be undetected.

GENERAL

As how powerful was that electricity? Thor incinerated an entire fortress, simply having some resistance doesn't automatically mean you can tank it.

I am not saying that he can automatically tank it, I am just saying that Brook won't be taken out of the fight by Thor's lightning attack. Plus, Brook is a lightning timer, so he should be more than capable of dodging Thor's lightning strikes. Also can I have evidence that Thor's lightning moves as fast as actual lightning because the panel I showed showcases lightning coming from an actual cloud. The same can't be said for Thor's lightning.

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Adamantium can cut mountain level+ high tiers so you'll have to do better than that.

This power scaling is a bit shaky. Just because you have mountain level attack potency doesn't mean you automatically have a high level of piercing durability, meaning that scaling off of mountain level characters isn't really valid. In addition, you talk about piercing durability with Adamantium, but Thor's hammer is a blunt object so you can't scale a piercing weapon to a blunt object. It just doesn't make sense.

CONCLUSION

SCENARIOS

Not to sound like a broken record player, but I feel like this needs to be reiterated as I feel that my opponent hasn't effectively countered my scenarios.

SCENARIO 1

Brook speed blitzes Johnny Sorrow and then Perona and Brook double team Thor.

SCENARIO 2

Perona's spider sense goes off as Johnny Sorrow reaches for his mask, causing Perona to project a Negative Hollow at Johnny Sorrow, causing him to lose the will to fight. Brook then finishes off Johnny Sorrow and the two double team Thor.

SCENARIO 3 (The Worst Case Scenario)

Johnny Sorrow succeeds in taking off his mask, but Perona with her spider sense teleports away from Johnny's line of sight so Brook is the only one affected. Perona then hides her body in someone far away location, leaves her body as a spirit, teleports back to the battle, and with her invisibility and intangibility, proceeds to take out Thor and Johnny Sorrow with her mini Hollows, which can trigger explosions.

DEBUNKING YOUR CONCLUSION

Brook or a Hollow have to close the gap of 100 yards (300 feet) then cut into Sorrow before Sorrow lifts his mask

Woah there. Brook is very very fast. He was able to run so fast that from hundreds of feet away, he was able to save Usopp from an attack from Oars near instantaneously. Oars was able to tag Sanji with one of his attacks, and Sanji is a lightning timer, meaning Brook can run at MHS + speeds and easily close the gap. Also do you have evidence of Sorrow's one shot attack working from such a long distance away? And again, Hollows are MHS + so they should easily be able to close the gap as well.

SUMMARY

On the whole, my team just has more hax and better speed that would prove too much to handle for my opponent. Perona's spider sense and teleportation along with Brook's immense speed ensures that they won't be tagged by Johnny Sorrow's attack. In addition their collective speed should ensure that they close the distance before Johnny Sorrow even has the chance to take off his mask. Thor is essentially a known factor here due to the fact that he doesn't have the physicals nor the hax to keep up with Brook and Perona. Overall, my team wins.

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#8 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: This will be a quick post so I won't bother with the image stuff.

Counters

Again, his intangibility is not passive so he starts off being tangible. This means that it is possible for Brook to tag Johnny before he can turn intantaible with his immense speed, which I will elaborate on below.

Oh come on! You didn't even bother to check the wiki before you made your claim

Intangibility: Sorrow is intangible, but can become solid and must in order to remove his mask. Once solid, he cannot become intangible again until the mask is replaced. While tangible, he can be hurt by physical force as well as matter manipulation.

DC Wikia

Sorrow is constantly intangible unless his mask is removed or he chooses to be tangible.

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This isn't impressive in the slightest.

Oh really? Let's see about that.

Just because Firestorm has FTL reactions doesn't mean his energy blast move at FTL speeds. You are going to need speed feats a little more concrete than that.

Did you not see him projecting the shield? Here he is projecting a funnel before Omega Beams can hit him FTL beams

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Oh please. Alan Scott was clearly putting all of his power into that attack,

All his will power? He didn't look winded to me.

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and put nowhere near around that level of effort when attacking Johnny. I mean even visually, his energy blast at Johnny Sorrow was significantly thinner and smaller than the energy blast he fired down at Earth.

Lanterns can control the output of their attacks, not the speed. Even the flipping cartoon Lanterns go lightspeed

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But whatever, here is Alan using a casual construct to slam Kyle before he think to fire his construct gun (

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And while Kyle was a rookie at the time, even fodder lanterns had nanosecond reaction times (not that I'm saying Alan was that fast, just giving perspective)

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Alan also fights back Kryptonians (I'm sure you know how strong and fast they are) with John Stewart and Hal Jordan

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Again, you are going to need more concrete speed feats if you want to prove that Johnny Sorrow would be able to react to Brook's attack.

Johnny Sorrow was able to knock back every JSA member before Kyle was able to get to him

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Who is you know, at least 100x faster than MHS.

Touche. However, Brook should still be more than capable of speed blitzing Sorrow even without his Violin.

Sorrow was actually blitzed in comics once, but do you know what it took for him to get blitzed? It took the original Flash running at top speeds to blitz Sorrow

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But not only that, Jay had to steal Black Adam speed prior to get fast enough

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And even then it took Mid Night showing Sorrow his own face to get him vulnerable

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And don't get me wrong, I am not saying that was the only way to blitz Sorrow, but if any MHS character could do it then it wouldn't have taken nearly as much effort because almost every member in the JSA that isn't a street leveler is at least sub LS and above.

But anyway, let's use one more feat for Sorrow so he doesn't look like a one feat pony. Here he easily reacts to Stargirl trying to rush him, this is when he was severely weakened as he was turning himself human.

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Stargirl is fast enough to dance around Black Adam's attacks (Black Adam would blitz your team).

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Touche. I didn't realize that the invisibility perk didn't apply to her attacks, but upon asking the host, it is confirmed it doesn't. However, don't forget that in Perona's spiritual form, she can split herself into Negative Hollows, and since the Negative Hollows are technically her body, the invisibility still applies to them.

I didn't forget, she just dies before doing that.

How? Her spider sense would forewarn her of the danger of Johnny Sorrow taking off his mask, and with Nightcrawlers teleportation, Perona could quite simply teleport away so she isn't in Johnny's line of sight.

Perona's spider sense and teleportation ensures that she will definitely be able to evade Sorrow's attack. Or, Perona could just leave her body and become a spirit, leaving her real body with the invisibility perk so it will be undetected.

She would need to be able to react to it and she can't. Also even if she could, all your attacks involve some sort of being getting up close (whether it be Brock or your hollows) but no being is getting close to Sorrow with his mask off, because anyone close enough to attack him is close enough to see him, it's pretty omnidirectional as well. Below is official art depicting Sorrow without his mask but I am not using it as a feat just as a visual guide.

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I am not saying that he can automatically tank it, I am just saying that Brook won't be taken out of the fight by Thor's lightning attack.

You'll need better evidence than that.

Plus, Brook is a lightning timer, so he should be more than capable of dodging Thor's lightning strikes. Also can I have evidence that Thor's lightning moves as fast as actual lightning because the panel I showed showcases lightning coming from an actual cloud. The same can't be said for Thor's lightning.

How are you going to dodge this?

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This power scaling is a bit shaky. Just because you have mountain level attack potency doesn't mean you automatically have a high level of piercing durability, meaning that scaling off of mountain level characters isn't really valid.

Did you even check if those characters had good piercing durability? Because they do but I already spent way too much time finding scans for something comics fans already know, so I'm just going to leave it here.

In addition, you talk about piercing durability with Adamantium, but Thor's hammer is a blunt object so you can't scale a piercing weapon to a blunt object. It just doesn't make sense.

It has a a sharp tip, you can see it curve in the middle. Thor is able to plow through these guys and pierce their armor easily with it

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Woah there. Brook is very very fast. He was able to run so fast that from hundreds of feet away, he was able to save Usopp from an attack from Oars near instantaneously. Oars was able to tag Sanji with one of his attacks, and Sanji is a lightning timer, meaning Brook can run at MHS + speeds and easily close the gap.

Speed is relative. If you can cross the distance at a MHS+ speed then to a normal human you would be so fast you would be FTE, but to Sorrow who can react to energy blasts from Alan Scott and Firestorm, you would just be another running Stargirl.

Also do you have evidence of Sorrow's one shot attack working from such a long distance away? And again, Hollows are MHS + so they should easily be able to close the gap as well.

I don't really need evidence because it has been stated that anyone who looks at his face will feel the effects, now I know it sounds NLF but even the Wizard Shazam (who is a high level mage in transcendent tier) and a blind man were affected

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So unless you can prove distance will be a problem for some strange reason, it shouldn't be.

On the whole, my team just has more hax and better speed that would prove too much to handle for my opponent.

Quality over quantity mate. My hax can one shot team busters and blow through high tiers (Adamantium) and while you may have as many MHS feats, just two of Sorrow's feats outclass you.

Perona's spider sense and teleportation along with Brook's immense speed ensures that they won't be tagged by Johnny Sorrow's attack

You seem to think that you are the only one with teleportation, Johnny has it too.

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Conclusion

You tried to play the speed angle but really do you know how huge the gap between MHS to LS is? It is so huge that if I somehow wanked Sorrow's feats 50x (making my feat 50x less impressive) Sorrow would still be miles ahead of you LS is mach 874,635.6. But even if we use Sorrow's lesser feat of easily tagging Stargirl, she is still faster than your team in terms of combat and reaction. Now I didn't as much time on this as I would have liked, so this may not be my best post, but I fail to see how Sorrow loses this, I really do.

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#10 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18577 posts) - - Show Bio
It is so huge that if I somehow wanked Sorrow's feats 50x (making my feat 50x less impressive) Sorrow would still be miles ahead

Wanking a feat makes it less impressive?

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#11 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking: Yeah, or in other words " even if the feat was 50x less impressive than I made it out to be" which I said cause Gear seemed to think I was overblowing the feat.

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#12 Edited by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

CLOSER

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SPEED

Did you not see him projecting the shield? Here he is projecting a funnel before Omega Beams can hit him FTL beams

Again, that's a testament to Firestorm's FTL reaction speed, but not necessarily the speed of his energy beams. Firestorm was fast enough to create a funnel with his powers, so it was Firestorm's reaction speed that did the work.

All his will power? He didn't look winded to me.

Maybe not all of his power, but definitely more power than he put in when he was fighting Johnny Sorrow.

Lanterns can control the output of their attacks, not the speed. Even the flipping cartoon Lanterns go lightspeed

You can't really scale comic book Green Lantern to cartoon Green Lantern because they are completely different verses.

But whatever, here is Alan using a casual construct to slam Kyle before he think to fire his construct gun (

Impressive, but that is a testament to Alan's combat speed as he is consciously controlling his construct. It isn't actually the speed of the energy. And you can't compare the speed of a construct to that of an energy blast.

Johnny Sorrow was able to knock back every JSA member before Kyle was able to get to him

Impressive. However I would argue that Kyle wasn't reaching his maximum speed here due to the close proximity to him and Johnny. For one, it takes a little while for a given item or person to accelerate i.e. reach its maximum speed. Think of it like running, you aren't going to hit your stride until a few seconds into running, only then will you reach your maximum speed. In the scan you showed me, it seems that Kyle started to charge at Johnny from a very short distance away. Because of this, Kyle had little time to actually accelerate or "hit his stride" and thus wasn't able to reach his maximum capacity of flight speed. What supports this is the fact that Jay Garrick and Black Adam are nowhere near light speed in terms of travel speed, and yet their combined speed was enough to blitz Sorrow? That makes no sense, and the only explanation would be that Kyle wasn't going at full speed due to not having enough time to fully accelerate.

but if any MHS character could do it then it wouldn't have taken nearly as much effort because almost every member in the JSA that isn't a street leveler is at least sub LS and above.

Yet you haven't shown me any speed feats that suggest that the members of the JSA are sub relativistic-relativistic as I will prove below.

But anyway, let's use one more feat for Sorrow so he doesn't look like a one feat pony. Here he easily reacts to Stargirl trying to rush him, this is when he was severely weakened as he was turning himself human.

Unimpressive.

Stargirl is fast enough to dance around Black Adam's attacks (Black Adam would blitz your team).

Stargirl wasn't dancing around Black Adam. She simply held him back with an energy beam before flying over him, leaving him vulnerable to another attack. That isn't dancing around him.

How are you going to dodge this?

Impressive AoE attack, but has Thor ever used it mid combat because if it has too long of a charge time, he will get blitzed by Brook. And again, this AoE attack is countered by the fact that Brook can run at MHS + speeds, significantly faster than lightning.

Speed is relative. If you can cross the distance at a MHS+ speed then to a normal human you would be so fast you would be FTE, but to Sorrow who can react to energy blasts from Alan Scott and Firestorm, you would just be another running Stargirl.

If those are the best speed feats of Sorrow's then he is definitely going to get blitzed by Brook and Perona

CONCLUSION

Now the deciding factor of this fight in my opinion is none other than Perona. You see Perona's hax is just too much for Thor and Johnny Sorrow to handle as I will prove below.

She would need to be able to react to it and she can't.

Sorrow has very good reaction speed, but has displayed no combat speed that suggest he can blitz Perona. So while he wouldn't be blitzed, he wouldn't be doing the blitzing either.

For starters, Perona can easily go into her spirit form. Since she has invisibility and starts 300 feet away, she can just hide her real body and go into her spirit body, which is also invisible. Since she has the ability to split her spirit form into Negative Hollows, Johnny nor Thor would be able to see the Negative Hollows and thus wouldn't be able to react to them. Thus, they would be tagged by the Negative Hollows, causing them to lose the will to fight and Perona could easily finish them off with her Mini Hollows, explosive ghost. You see you have been so focused on Brook this entire time that you have forgotten about Perona, but Brook is merely just bait, a sacrifice to get Sorrow to take off his mask and become tangible. And unlike Sorrow, Perona is always intangible, and you have no feats other than pure hand canon and NLF that prove that Sorrow's death stare would work on spirits or people who are intangible.

So to sum up:

  • Sorrow is not as fast as you think and while he would be able to tag Brook, he isn't so fast that Perona wouldn't be able to react to him. And considering the distance between the two and the fact that there is no feat of Sorrow's death stare working from long range along with Perona's spider sense and reaction time, Perona will have more than enough time to go into her spirit form and be completely immune to their attacks
  • Perona's invisibility is a major factor as you can't see her and can't react to her when she splits her body into Negative Hollows
    • There are also no durability feats that suggest you can tank a swarm of Negative Hollows

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#13 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by deactivated-5b466be4b5981 (3660 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow

You lightning round.

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#16 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#18 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31796 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#19 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31796 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: You know... You really should have grabbed some Pirate fodder. lmao

Really would have fit your theme.

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#20 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

NO though from what i see gear one

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#23 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenewguysnm1: Then can you please vote as I would really appreciate it.

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#24 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenewguysnm1: Then can you please vote as I would really appreciate it.

BTw, I voted on your CaV, so it would be nice if you could to the same :)

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#25 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31796 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31796 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Posted by deactivated-5b728068f211c (7069 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659 said:

@thenewguysnm1: Then can you please vote as I would really appreciate it.

BTw, I voted on your CaV, so it would be nice if you could to the same :)

what cav also if i cant get a proper vote up today then tomorrow for sure

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#30 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659 said:
@gearsecond659 said:

@thenewguysnm1: Then can you please vote as I would really appreciate it.

BTw, I voted on your CaV, so it would be nice if you could to the same :)

what cav also if i cant get a proper vote up today then tomorrow for sure

Your CaV with Alextheboss. Thanks for working on the vote and I am looking forward to it :)

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#31 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw Interested in voting?

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#32 Edited by vsw (2931 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: I'll vote on all all ur posts in the morning it's 4am allow it

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#33 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw said:

@gearsecond659: I'll vote on all all ur posts in the morning

Very well. Looking forward to it.

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#34 Posted by Aristeaus (1225 posts) - - Show Bio

I am not going to vote here, but I did have a question for @major_hellstrom: You took invisibility on a guy whose main gimmick is *see my face* and you did not even mention it once in your fight? :-P

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#35 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
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#36 Posted by fernandeztimothygian (1528 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31796 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Posted by Aristeaus (1225 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus: I don't have invisibility tho

Characters:

  • 8- Johnny Sorrow
  • 6- Thor (IDW)

Perks:

  • 2- Adamantium Upgrade (Mjolnir)
  • 2- Invisibility (Johnny Sorrow)
  • 1- Spider Senses (Thor)
  • 5- Two Extra Character Points
  • 5- Two Extra Character Points
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#39 Posted by fernandeztimothygian (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

@mylittlefascist: Well, unless voting standards have changed in the past year and a half, I think I can give reasons. I'm very interested in these charaacters, never even heard of them before.

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#40 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Edited by MyLittleFascist (31796 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: You didn't tell me that. I asked if those were the perks you wanted and you said yes.

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#42 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@mylittlefascist: I thought you were asking if I wanted a perk change so I said yeah

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#43 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31796 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: I asked if those were the perks you wanted to change to, and you said yes.

Then in tourney PM you mentioned that I matched you up with ghosts right after you switched off of the anti-ethereal/spiritual perk.

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#44 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@mylittlefascist: Well in my head I had already switched to them, so when you asked if I wanted to switch I thought you meant switch back. But oh well, at least no one brought it up until now, lol.

Actually, I said right after I decided to get the perk.

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#45 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31796 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: I can switch your perks back, but it'll have to be at the start of the next match.

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#46 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@mylittlefascist: Nah, if I beat ghosts without the perk, I can beat even more of them if I face them next round. Lel

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#47 Edited by Aristeaus (1225 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom said:

@mylittlefascist: Well in my head I had already switched to them, so when you asked if I wanted to switch I thought you meant switch back. But oh well, at least no one brought it up until now, lol.

Actually, I said right after I decided to get the perk.

I didnt notice until I was tagged for voting. I thought it a bit strange that you took the perk on him, as it quite literally negates his only offensive feat ( assuming they cannot see you while invis).

It is also why I refuse to vote here. lol

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#48 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus: Well tbf, I only took it because his biggest weakness is his own face cause if he looks at his own face he would also die. Also he chooses when to activate invisibility anyway so it wouldn't really change much when it comes to this battle, though I could have definitely used it and Spidey Sense.

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#49 Posted by WollfMyth209 (17021 posts) - - Show Bio

Voting for @major_hellstrom. Major's posts are more concrete, go more in-depth about how his team can win, and has greater substance overall. He also relied less on just dismissing and underplaying his opposition's feats.

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#50 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio