2017 High Tier PYP Tourney RD3: @asgardianbrony vs @chimeroid(Open for Votes)

Well, hope that you have something in your sleeve. Most of things that Twilight can do during prep time will be useless here. And in battle she's far too outclassed in physicals to be even a good support.

Since you have obviously read my previous debates i will cut down on the feats department of my intro. Essentially, he acquired the genetic information of Kal El, and every body he makes for himself retains all of the powers of the original Superman thanks to that, his other power is complete control over technology which he uses to build the rest of his body. He is immortal as he can create new bodies from any piece of technology, and while his technopathy allows him to control Lantern rings (which he has 10 off for this battle) he is not quite imaginative with them. On top of that all he is the Grandmaster of the Manhunters and Warworld itself (which OFC, i will not use in combat as it would be too unfair).

While he is, without a doubt incredibly powerful, there are some showings that you chose that don't sit well with me. Firstly, in the durability department.

1. Thor doesnt even feel a strike from an enraged hulk.

This is out of context in many a way, Hulk was not enraged, in fact, Hulk was trying to reason with Thor, and secondly, Thor was in Warrior Madness. Regular people don't feel pain when they are in such a state of mind. Thor was simply to insane at the point to care about it.

2. Thor survives a scream from black bolt

What he survived was a mountain busting attack that was aimed at the symbiot. And Thor was on his knees after it.

Then, in the speed department, as you can suspect, his Speed will be one of the most contested parts of this debate. Now, i agree he is faster than humans, but not by a lot. Let's go into your scans:

1. thor fights in microseconds. Thor #144

Thor doesn't fight in microseconds, and he doesn't need reaction time to catch Mjolnir as Mjolnir only moves the way Thor wants it to. At best, Thor can land a single punch in a couple of microseconds, which is great, but not a constant for him. In fact, as we all know, his speed has always been portrayed as Street tier. (not counting Travel). He simply has too many showings that put his speed down for you to really debate him being a microsecond fighter.

2. Thor casually catches a tank shell fired at him, this is a microsecond feat.

No it is not. Average muzzle velocity for a tank cannon is 700 meters per second. A microsecond is one millionth part of a second this feat is done in one tenth of a second. You didn't only highball it, you made it out to be 100.000 times better than it actually is. In a microsecond a tank shell would go over 0.003 inches.

I do have a question. What happens if Desak is the strongest around when it comes to Divine powers? Does he also scale down to the strongest god around? Simply put, you can either make an NLF claim or not. If your claim, that stems from the scan of him receiving the Amulet (which seems like a glaring weakness) is that Desak is to be equal to gods, wouldn't that mean he simply cannot be stronger than Thor in this debate?

I find it very interesting when someone uses a character that has a level of toonforce in a debate. However, your mountain busting durability feat is basically only a mountain top. Still a great feat. Just not quite there yet.

I have one very simple counter for your team's prep time - In character behavior. Your prep time is too complicated and something your characters don't actually do.

For Thor - Prime example is Thor using the armor you want to use. He summoned it rarely, if ever and only after the fight has gone south. Not to mention that the original armor was destroyed and later rebuild. IIRC, the rebuilt armor has very few showings and none that are more impressive than what Thor usually does. And the Belt of strength is pretty rare itself, Thor only used it a couple of times, and only once did he actually summon it for battle. Not to mention that Odin, in the scan which you describe as him adding powers to the belt and the gauntlets, said "Thy cooling handiwork" meaning that, that exact scan references the creation of these items. Also, Thanosi used special artefacts to create that blast, artifacts that don't give him any increase in durability, durability that is not backed up by feat. Basically, most that you can show is Thor beating a clone of Thanos and no feats to prove that Thanosi is as durable as Thanos. And, once more, it was not Thor's prep plan to use the belt of strength, but Odin's.

For Kratos - Is summoning 200 Gorgons in character for Kratos to do? I highly doubt it. While we are at it, has he ever summoned 200 beings at the same time? So, you need to prove both his willingness and capability to summon 200 gorgons prior to the beginning of the battle.

For Twilight - Could be an honest mistake, but i only saw someone else do that, so i will give you the benefit of the doubt and wait for Twilight to use those spells during prep time on others to prove that she can and is in character for her to do so. Now, i may be mistaken, but when she transformed in the video you have shown us, it seemed she became evil. Not at all someone who would amp her allies.This is why actual showings are important. You can't really dictate what they do since this is an in character battle. Also, if Twilight creates a massive machine, guess who gets to use his technopathy on it?

For Desak - Now, you said he scales to gods, not that he replicates their combined feats and abilities into himself. You having multiple gods doesn't sound at all relevant here. What would happen is simply Desak scaling to Thor as he is the strongest god to scale to in this battle. What you propose is not scaling, but rather copying of their combined energies, which i believe is crap. Also, as stated, nobody from your team has actual showings of doing what you propose in character. None of that would happen.

For prep summary - As i have said, you are long way away from proving almost any of your claims. You need to prove that Twilight can clone others (and herself), that she would do it, that she can use the absorber to amp others and that she would be willing to do that, that Desak can copy the abilities (and pick and choose from their best characteristics), in the end you need to prove that your team would indeed attack him in order to amp him.

Actually, you also simply don't know how powerful Alice is, so this part will be full of revelations for you :P

So, she at most can absorb the powers of two beings at the same time, she will start the fight by absorbing the powers of a DC character and she cant use the powers she absorbs nearly as effectively as the original owner of those powers could. good to know.

Actually, i have to admit, i was not going all out that is simply a nice scan i wanted to use, Alice is capable of using more than 2 powers at the same time, but that is not that relevant as she is also capable of instantly switching the power source, here. let me show you:

Also, the only reason i have been using the powers of DC characters is because she was facing characters she cannot drain, she drains random bricks when no enemies are there to be drained. However, if she is facing magical enemies, she will drain them and your team has both a magical based character and a divine brick.

But Desak's powers are also never described as magic, they are simply anti-god, anti-supernatural, basically anti-magic.

I might need a quote on that, they are anti-god, but anti-magic is a whole different thing that needs to be proven first. In fact, Desak's amulet is described as enchanted

Yet, even though tirek is powerful enough to do that, he couldnt absorb Twilight's powers. Tirek had to blackmail twi by threatening her friends and could only take her powers when twi purposely let him do so

What you conveniently decided to skip talking about was that Twilight was massively amped during that fight. Which made her essentially equally (or more) powerful in comparison, and thus, he was unable to drain her. Now, i know you get Alicorn Twilight, but i am not sure that you get the powers of other 4 Alicorns to use as well. Either way, i am not convinced that she became undrainable, but rather, simply stronger than he was, as he drained her just fine once she surrendered (thus proving that it is not the nature of the power that cannot be drained, but simply that she was too powerful to be drained by him. )

. I im not mistaken there was context behind the specter absorption feat for BA, something like she was able to absorb his power as he didnt have a human host, kind of like the phoenix in that he is vulnerable without a host. until feats are provided of BA absorbing the powers of a being as resistant to absorption as Twi is then we must assume she cant steal twi's magic, or at least she would really need to struggle to do so.

No, there was no real context that would influence the ability of Alice to drain her enemies, yes, Spectre was unbound, but he was not weak in any way, as he beat down pretty much everyone in that story arc. Until he faced Lori that is, she effortlessly curbed him, but didn't know how to destroy him once he lost form due to the fact that he is nothing without gods power.

Also, will BA even steal any of my characters powers? why do that if she can just utilize the powers of DC heroes she has experience with?

She will, she always does that, that is her power and her go to move. She beats magical opponents by stripping them of their powers. Yes she can use DC characters, but then she would have to fight, why not just drain her opponents and Leave Thor and Kratos mortal Men until they get blitzed by Hank, and then focusing on draining Twilight, which, in all honesty, she should be able to do.

Time to go over the facts that stop this from working:

Upon the fight beginning Desak and his clone will immediately head on over to Black alice as she is powered by gods/supernatural, ect which Desak hates and loves to kill. Both Black alice and Desak are superspeedsters thanks to perks or amps, however Desak also has nightcrawlers telefrag ability thanks to my perk:

Black Alice got the Lightspeed perk, she will still be massively faster than Desak. And, while Desak has his power of teleportation, he doesn't automatically get all of Nightcrawlers feats that come with it. He only gets the ability to teleport, not the full range of skill NIghtcrawler has.

Desak is also simply far, far more powerful than BA and can kill her with his energy projection or physical might.

All the while Cyborg Superman, who is also faster and possibly stronger than Desak stands around doing nothing? Also, Lori herself, who would have access to the power of Thor, Kratos or Twilight combined with the lightspeed perk is not an easy fight in any a way. But then again, you did account for Hank in your post:

The Thors, Kratos, Twi and Gorgon army will all be ganging up on Cyborg Supes.

Except that, Thor will be powerless and thus easily killed by Hank. Kratos doesn't even need to be depowered to be quickly beat down by someone on Hank's level. Gorgon army is yet to be proven to be a fact, but Hank has an army of his own to face it, and it is not made out of living beings, but metal men, which should be immune to their gazes.

Not to seem mellow, it is time for my debating to go on the offensive. But not yet with my characters, after all, this is just an opener, however, i will bring up a massive issue with your team - Teamwork. You literally put two godslayers into a team with Thor. Teamwork is going to be a massive issue, especially since it was Thor who killed Desak after Desak tried his darnest to kill him back. You basically took Metallo and Superman and crammed them in a team. Sparks will be flying. Hell, i wouldn't be surprised if they battled each other before doing anything together. I mean Thor is the second most valued target for Desak he REALLY wants him dead. In all honesty, i don't think Kratos would work well with others either, but that is mere speculation. However, Desak and Thor fighting is a certainty. This battle will, in no way, stop Desak from attacking Thor as he is the most important target for Desak available.

First of all, most of your prep plans is not supported by feats as of yet, i will need proof that Twilight can create clones of others, that she WOULD do so in character and that those clones retain all the powers of the originals. (or any other combat showing of those clones).

I will also need showings of Kratos summoning hundreds of creatures to fight for him.

My team still holds a solid speed edge and the abilities to counter your moves. The main threat remains Desak, but he can be managed by a sufficiently powerful opponent who is not a god - Cyborg Superman.

Unfortunately for you, you based your team on gods and magic users, Thor will literally be a non factor against Black Alice who can drain him of all of his powers, potentially, Twilight would be powerless as well and Cyborg Superman with 10 rings would deal a lot of fatalities in this fight.

your up :) @chimeroid

*You're

Hm, You convinced me that Twilight will be more usefull than I thought (like I have written in my first post here).

That is a very nice cav. Waiting for more

I will keep this simple as i do not have any desires to go through all the scans you posted. I am more than familiar with the fact that Thor is super-durable. I was just saying he is not "no-sell enraged Hulk" durable. He is not. Hulk can, and has hurt him on multiple occasion.

No, Desak's ability allows him to become as powerful as the god's he is fighting, therefore if he is fighting a team of gods he will scale to all of them to beat them. This is how he is able to kill off entire pantheons (such as his home pantheon of Kronnit), if he only scaled to the strongest god around he would get murdered by the combined might of all the others, Desak scales to all gods present combined. This can be seen in his fight with Pensu, Tae, Thor, Herc and BRB where he took them all on at the same time and all of them had differing levels of power yet none were powerful enough to solo all the others, thus proving he scaled to all of them combined.

You are either very wrong, or very disingenuous with this one. Desak is immune to the power of Gods. He doesn't need to scale to all of them to beat them. He simply needs to scale enough to be able to harm them and he can ignore their attacks, as he is immune to divine powers being used on him. Do you have any showings of him to prove that he actually scales above the combined powers of present gods? I sincerely doubt it. In my preparation for this debate, i have read all of Desak's appearances and nowhere does it state that he becomes that powerful, however, he shows, and states, multiple times that he is immune to their powers. So him battling gods is basically wolverine battling humans. It is not that he scales to be that much more powerful than them, it is that they cannot harm him by using the means at their disposal.

You also forgot something, the fact that Desak also absorbs any god power used on him. As i said and showed in my last post, during prep my team will blast Desak with their combined might increasing his power exponentially.

Ok, and to prove your point you will need to show feats of Desak fighting after absorbing the godblast. You know how it works, feats or bust. So far, he absorbed King Thor's attack and then promptly lost.

prep time feats cant really be judged on the frequency of their use

This is exactly how you judge them actually. This is called "in-character behavior" and it is paramount to any a point being made in a debate like this one.

as even when using prep master characters they hardly ever replicate the feat again, prep is basically just puling plot devices out of your butt.

Once more, i need to step in with a resounding "no". While characters with prep have pulled out plot devices, their in-character behavior pre-battle is what matters more. It is not in-character for Thor to overly prep for a battle, and Kratos has literally never done it. EVER.

Taking an example from your last debate, thanos has created galactus killing bombs only one time right? And yet it was considered a valid feat for prep.

Actually, i had no idea how many times he did it and if it is considered as standard gear for Thanos, i took Apex_pretador's word for that as he stood as a sort of a Thanos expert around these parts. If i knew it was a one-time deal i would definitely debate against it.

If a character has accomplished something in prep even one time, and there is no context around it such as a need of a specific item, and if the character can accomplish this in the appropriate amount of time, then it is a valid feat.

It is a valid feat, i am not arguing that, but it is not a valid strategy for the individual to do in-character. Imagine if every Batman debate was Hellbat + Justice Buster + Insider Suit + Brother Eye + Tower of Babel... That would basically mean you subscribe to Wenjun_Chew's logic. And, that is not how these debates work. Not only are some feats heavy outliers of one's intelligence or prep feats overall, but they are simply too far out of character to be expected in a debate like this. Not to mention that even your own logic negates a lot of your claims.

You said "even one time" but Kratos has NEVER done what you suggest and Twilight has NEVER done what you suggest. Meaning that neither of those feats come in as "valid" by YOUR OWN TERMS.

So, let's take this step by step:

indeed, the rebuilt armour has the one showing vs thanosi as that was its last appearance... and your point is? It was shown to amp thor to the level of thanos or above, thats definitely more impressive than what base thor can do.

No, it was shown to amp Thor to the level of being capable of beating a clone of Thanos, and, as most would (and did agree when i brought up Thor beating up the clone of Thanos) is that the Clone is not as strong as Thanos the OG. And it was stated on-panel that the belt doubles the strength of Thor, and that was like 10 pages after the Odin amp you are talking about.

However, even if we take this as a legit feat. It is clearly a showing of outside help as Odin interfered and sent the armor via Firelord instead of Thor summoning it. In fact, since you said that this is the only appearance of this gear, we can see that Thor has NEVER summoned it. And, going by your logic alone, that means this is not a valid prep feat for Thor as it was never accomplished by Thor. It was done by Odin and delivered by Firestorm.

Yes, so what? The fact is Thor can summon his armour in prep. Thor isnt just going to sit and suck his thumb for 2 hours, he is going to do what he can and that is summon his armour.

Can=/= Will. Once more, bring your attention back to In-Character Behavior. There were many more instances where he knew the battle was coming and he did not summon this gear than when he did(zero times). So, yes, the chances are equal for him to suck his thumb as they are for him to summon the armor.

Actually it does not reference their creation, only their remaking. In Thor volume 2:25 Odin has commissioned Jagrfelm to refashion thor's armour for his battle with thanos, Odin then imbues them with a fraction of his power and sends them by the hand of fire lord to thor. Thor volume 2:25 takes place long, long after the belt and gauntlets were created, i advise you to read the comic so we can do away with these arguments over ignorance of context.

"Remaking"=Creation in this case as the new armor is entirely different from the original one. And i have read these, it is not ignorance on my part, it is simply a semantic disagreement. The statement that says the belt will double his strength came after the scan of Odin.

Yes, the clone was as durable as thanos because it was Thanos. when the comic was first written Thanosi was the true Thanos, he was called thanos throughout the arc and was not a clone. Starlin later returned and retconned him into a clone HOWEVER his portrayal and power level was not retconned.

It was retconned, it was not Thanos. Thanos took blasts from Power-Gem Thor and Odin himself. Thanosi got one-shot by a Thor with his strength doubled and a bit of Odin Force sent to him (and, since i know you will argue that it is not only doubling - Here ) Clearly, the Thanos clone and Thanos himself do not share the durability. Just like Darkseid being beaten by the power of love was retconned to it being Desaad doesn't magically make Desaad as powerful as Darkseid.

Firstly let me address Kratos ability to summon the gorgons. As i made clear in his bio, this version of kratos was never seen in the god of war games as he is fully composite.

So, what you are saying is that he is featless? Agreed. No feats, no proof.

in his composite form Kratos is in god form, has the power of hope, the power of the titans, the power of olympus, the power of Apollo, hades absorbed soul and the claws of hades; this version of kratos dwarfs in power any being we have seen in the GOW franchise and as he is a god he can wield the powers of the gods he has stolen to full effect.

Have we seen him wield the powers of other gods to their full effects?

So, with that said what your really asking is whether gods, more specifically hades, can summon 200 gorgons, and the answer is definitely yes.

No, what i am asking is, have we seen KRATOS summon 200 gorgons. EVER? If he never did it he either CANNOT or WILL NOT do so. Either way - Not happening.

Hades had power over the entire underworld and every soul in it, when he died all the souls of the dead were loosed to roam the lands of the living. Kratos in composite form can utilize hades full power to the fullest, thus he can easily summon 200 gorgons.

Irrelevant and bad argument. Do you use Odin's feats for Odin Force Thor? Should i use full Spectre Feats for Alice? No, because neither have the feats to back those claims up. So, once more, Do you have the feats or not?

Now, as for your question of if it is in character for kratos to summon them, yes i think it is but it is also an invalid question.

So, any question that undermines your strategy is an "invalid" one? Or are you saying that In-Character behavior is an invalid argument?

Kratos didnt have prep during his games nor did he have the power of his composite form. If we look at how other gods acted we see that most all the major deities including kratos fellow war god ares summon hordes of creatures to fight around them and for them. So, kratos has the capability to summon the gorgons and it would be in character for him to do so.

What you said here is "Ares summons hordes of creatures so it is in character for Kratos to do it". Now that doesn't make any sense. Kratos never did what you are saying so you have no proof of him being capable or willing to do so. He has 0 prep feats. That doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want. That means you get 0 (in letters ZERO) prep feats for him. Simple as that.

once again, you cant judge prep feats by their consistency. as i stated earlier, even prep masters hardly ever replicate the same feat twice.

Which is why it is not valid to use feats that they cannot replicate in a debate like this. Consistency is the exact way you judge someones prep capabilities. In that regard, prep is no different from any other type of a feat.

Twi as the element of magic has the ability to perfectly copy a type of magic after seeing it done only once.

Which would be cool if anyone ever used aforementioned spells on somebody else. To me it seems like it is a self-cast spell.

So, Twi can replicate any magic she sees, in fact she can nigh master an entire style of magic after seeing only one spell of its kind performed a single time. Glimmer showed twi accelero + similo duplexus and explained how they worked, thus Twi will be able to use them.

First of all, what you are saying, again, is that Twilight has never used those spells like that. But you ask of us to ignore that fact. Ok, let's do that.

Secondly, i am yet to see Twilight using the spell on others.

Also, Twi is overly prepared to the point of insanity. If she knows something is about to happen she will try to prepare in any way possible, trying to account for any and all eventualities. She would amp herself and her teammates as much as she could before the time ran out and would be spazzed out thinking she hadn't done enough XD

Is she really? I mean, i do need to see her feats of overly preparing for combat. From what i have seen during this debate, she has been caught off guard quite a number of times. Does she usually amp her teammates as much as she can? Feats please.

So, you decided to pivot this debate on this:

Alright, i agree she will drain thor and Kratos if she gets the chance, IF she gets the chance seeing as she will be being attacked by two speedster teleporting Desak's.

And dude, she is waay faster than that. Ok, you have 4000 actions per second. Which is not bad. But do you know what Lightspeed is? It is 300.000.000 meters per second. If we decide that for each book placed in a rushed way takes 2-3 times more than crossing a meter of distance without placing the book (generous estimate), we would get the number of 12.000 per second. That means that the Lightspeed perk makes her 25000 (twenty-five thousand) times faster than that. Furthermore, i have already shown her draining Cheetah who was trying to blitz her. And that is New 52 Cheetah.. You know, faster than Flash and Superman. And yet, Lori drained her before Cheetah could blitz her. And once she drains Thor and Kratos she will be more than powerful enough to survive Desak's attack.

And that is all under the assumption that you can provide a scan of Twilight using Accelero on somebody else.

While thor's combat speed is suspect no one can deny his insane flight speed, thus Desak easily overtaking and blitzing him mid flight is a great feat of speed. With Twi's amp added on to his already immense flight speed Desak could quite easily bullrush BA and take her head off.

Actually, in that story Thor's power was split, and he only had like 10% of it. which includes his flight speed, also, he never moved that quickly in the atmosphere, much like Superman. In outer space, yes, Both Thor and Supes are MFTL. In the Earth's atmosphere, neither are really as fast. And from the feats you have shown, you are nowhere near proving that someone who can move and react at lightspeed will be tagged.

Along with the above Desak can teleport across universes and dimensions instantaneously, this is how he traverses the divine realms.

Teleportation is not a speed feat and is really not an interchangeable term with speed.

So, Desak has reflexes/combat speed on par with superman, FTL flight/bullrushing speed and instantaneous teleportation which he can now use to telefrag thanks to my nightcrawler perk. Desak will easily be able to tag BA and kill her, whether by telefragging, bull rushing or in combat.

Well, this was a MASSIVE leap of logic. There is a big difference between Twilight's accelero and Superman's speed. Not to mention that, when Twilight used the Accelero spell that you mentioned, she barely broke the sound barrier.

I also dont think telefragging is some super hard to learn skill, nightcrawler simply doesnt do it because of his morals. Desak doesnt have nightcrawlers morals, thus he will use it, simple as that.

So many things are not a hard-to-learn skill, but characters don't use it. Desak would potentially be willing to use it, but he lacks feats to prove that he has enough skill to pull it off the same way Kurt does. And, also, he is still too slow for a lightspeed character. (as mention, 25000 times slower).

Actually he (Cyborg Superman) will be engaged by twi, thor, kratos, their clones and the 200 spirit gorgons. also, Desak after scaling and amping will dwarf Cyborg supes in power and as shown above the speed will be comparable, plus desak has the teleporting advantage.

Except that Thor and Kratos are both drained of power (I will turn your Attention to - Exhibit A. which has you agreeing that Black Alice can drain them, thus ensuring their instadeath by the hands of Hank or even BA). Also, you failed to show Desak's feats to ever put him at levels of "Dwarfing" Cyborg Superman. All you have here is Thor and Kratos for him to scale off. Neither are above CS. In fact, Thor is about Superman's level. And Kratos is waay below. So, even with the said scale, he is not "dwarfing" Hank in any way, shape or form.

actually going by the scan of her stealing cheetah's power that you provided, her magic steal is not instantaneous and takes a small amount of time to activate.

It happened in a single panel, that doesn't show time. We know that Cheetah is FTL and Lori drained her before Cheetah could blitz her. IF you need feats for Cheetah, I will Oblige

Blitzed Superman, Tagged Flash, Outreacted and Tagged Flash, And Again,

That is how fast her draining is in New 52. True, if i was relying solely on her Pre 52 feats i would be in trouble, but BA actually got an amp in New 52 much like many an other character and this tourney allows both Pre and New 52 versions of my characters. So, she can drain FTL characters before they tag her and that was before she got the lightspeed perk courtesy of EmperorThanos.

This begs some questions such as, can BA steal thor and kratos powers before Desak and his clone bullrush her head clean off? Will BA be able to concentrate and steal anyone powers while fleeing from two FTL instantaneous teleporting Desaks?

So, to answer. Yes, she can steal their powers. She has never shown the need to concentrate to steal powers, she does it quite casually, even from the characters as powerful as the Spectre. Also, when did we jump to Desak being faster than light? Your top feat shows him at 4.000 actions per second. Which is still 25000 times slower than light.

she happens to steal thor or kratos powers she will still get oneshot by a bullrush from desak and his adamantium blades as after prep he will have amped to a level far beyond thor and kratos combined, however i doubt she will even be able to steal their powers at all while running for her life.

FEAAATS OR GTFO!!!! First of all, Desak was never capable of oneshotting Thor. He was capable of maybe beating him, but never oneshotting. And Black Alice would have the powers of thor+ the powers of Kratos + the Alicorn amp (if she can't drain Twilight, she just drains the other members of your team) + the lightspeed perk.

So far you have mostly just failed to show any good feats to explain how exactly Desak wins this clash.

As discussed above it is highly unlikely BA will be able to drain anyone as she will either be running from the Desak's or wil already be decapitated by a bullrush or telefrag from them. If BA is unsuccessful in her draining then my two Odinforce empowered Thor's will put a righteous beatdown on cyborg's metal behind even worse than the one given to thanosi.

First of all, your Thor is not Odinforce empowered, that is outside help and Thor cannot just pull Odinforce out of his ass. As we have mentioned, he has never summoned OF gear. EVER. And, as i have proven. BA is definitely more than fast enough even WITHOUT the perk to drain them all before she gets hit. The lightspeed perk makes it too fast for Desak to imagine.

As for Kratos (and his clone), while i agree he is not on the level of a herald like cyborg supes he can still hold his own and be an asset to my team. Kratos is a legit high-mid tier to high tier level character, able to casually oneshot kill mid-tiers like the titan perses

Which is utterly irrelevant as he will be depowered and instakilled before he does anything of note.

i proved the gorgon army above. im interested in these metal men though, you dont seem to mention them anywhere else in your post.

Manhunters. he is the Grandmaster and controls them all. I did mention them in the opener i believe. And you did not prove anything. You shown a totally different character doing it. It is still not in Kratos' character to perfor prep feats.

Soul Attacks/Soul Ripping

Interesting strategy, unfortunately, useless, as Kratos would be powerless in moments against a Lightspeed Black Alice. Also, IIRC (do correct me if i am mistaken) he always battled his opponents before using that move.

Transmutation:

Twi is actually far and away the best transmutation user on my team, as well as the most hax over all.

Twi turns animals into hybrid oranges

Twi and starlight show off their ability to spam transmutation, even creating a living creature

Even as a little kid Twi was able to transmute half her classroom into palm trees according to celestia:

Twi transmutes things a lot and can do so without killing, for instance she can turn someone into a living apple, thus twi will be totally fine using this ability in combat.

Not bad, but from what i have seen from following your links i can notice a couple of things, first, it is a beam attack, it would have to connect and it didn't seem too fast for my team.

Secondly, all transmuted living things seemed fine, which would mean Alice could transmute back (she holds Alicorn powers now too) or Cyborg could just move to a new body.

Mind Meld and Mind Meld advanced

Both useless as my team has mind protection perk. Simplest counter ever.

Magic Draining:

It was never specifically shown that BA's draining is magical. But regardless of that, are you really going for a tug of war against her? Do you really believe she can outdrain someone who drained the Spectre? Also, once more, it was a magic blast type attack, easily dodged or blocked by Black Alice using Mjolnir.

Energy Absorption:

Now, you havent yet showed off Hank's power with the yellow lantern rings, so just as a kind of preemptive counter let me point out that Thor (and his clone) has the ability to drain energy and is extremely good at it.

Thor is gonna be depowered for this fight. Remember, lightspeed Black Alice, you agreeing he has no defense to that? I called it Exhibit A...

Desak would attack Thor. No questions asked. Why? Because that is the last memory Desak can have as Thor KILLED HIM in that story. But let's address your "counter".

Context is key my man, Desak will have no quarrel with Thor in this tourney, let me explain. During the events leading up to the reigning the designate sent Desak to kill Thor as at this time the god of thunder was losing his humanity and the designate saw the evil he would bring. Desak was thus led to kill thor to stop the great evil he foresaw would happen in the future.

The last info Desak got from Tarene (who is the Designate, as you know) was that he MUST KILL THOR AT ALL COSTS.

So, does this mean Desak will still want to kill Thor? No. Thor's soul has since been healed and he has reconciled with the designate in Thor volume 2: 79, so the designate will not be leading Desak to hunt thor,

But Desak does not know that. He was already dead when that happened. The last info he had was that he MUST KILL THOR AT ALL COSTS

In fact, this is what Desak had to say to Thor:

And do you know what their next two pieces of interaction were?

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Now, i get your point, you aim at the idea that the Designate will tell Desak to stand down here. But that would be Outside meddling in this scenario, and thus, not allowed.

In this situation Desak will work with thor. they may not be friends (though twi could get them to be :D) but they will still work together and the designate (tarene) who guides Desak and has reconciled with Thor will not let her pawn go rogue.

Designate is not in this fight. She will do nothing, and she will not interfere in any a way, shape or form.

As for Kratos, at the end of GOW3 he "repented" of his sins and is no longer totally controlled by rage and hate. Kratos worked with gods for most of his life, he has no quarrel with Thor and thus will work with him just fine as well.

I misspoke, yes, Kratos would work with Thor, but would he work with Desak? I highly doubt that, Desak murders gods, and Kratos Qualifies. You literally took a serial killer and put him in the team with two people who are his main target group. Desak would enjoy killing them even during prep. Teamwork is a big deal in tourneys, and your team doesn't have it.

Ive proven all my prep plans are doable and in character. as for Twi's clones having all her abilities, in season 3 episiode 3 "too many pinkie pies" we see cloning magic for the first time as Pinkie enters the enchanted pool and creates hundreds of clones of herself, all of which retain her toonforce abilities and act almost exactly like her.

No, you did not, in fact, the episode you cited had nothing to do with the spell you are saying Twilight would use, so you are being doubly wrong :P ... P Pie in that episode was not being doubled by Twilight or the spell, but by the Mirror Pool . It is quite obvious that those two are not the same and you cannot use the clones created by the Mirror Pool as proof that Twilight's clones would have the same properties.

Furthermore, the evidence would show that similo duplexus creates clones exactly like the original, in fact the spell was described by starlight as "being in two places at once", showing the clones are the same as the original.

I see no evidence of that. Also, i, once more, see no evidence that it can be used on characters other than the caster herself.

Actually you do not hold the speed edge. Desak with his amps has FTL travel/bullrushing speed, superman level combat speed and instantaneous teleportation, the rest of my team also has superman level combat speed and thor has FTL bull rushing speed. Twi is also extremely fast, as shown in her bio she has instantaneous teleportation and also she has all the power of her fellow alicorns, one of which was able to travel from the moon to equestria with superspeed:

I do hold the speed edge, you have no feats to show Desak being FTL except, potentially during Travel, which is yet to be proven. You are yet to prove that Accelero can be cast on others, so i doubt she can actually do it, and even if she can, 4000 actions per second is 25000 times slower than Alice. Your team is slow in comparison. Teleportation is not a speed feat. Also, the moon of Equestria is not nearly as far away as the Moon is from Earth, thus making traveling from it to land not as impressive (i will post proof later.)

Cyborg supes is not as powerful as Desak at all. As explained in my intro, after prep Desak equals my entire amped team in power and through twi's prep has telekinesis twice as powerful as her own. How powerful is Twi's TK? It has moved the sun and moon at superspeed!

Twi moving sun and moon

Except that the Moon of Equestria is tiny, and i have no reason to believe that the Sun is much bigger there too. Here is the proof:

What can we conclude from this? Well, first of all, once Twi was bored, it only took their moon a couple of seconds to drop the to ground, meaning it is not hundreds of thousands of miles away, but, in fact, is rather close. And secondly, we can see that it is, in fact, tiny.

The moon of Equestria is really tiny. Like, building sized. That means that this sentence:

So, Desak has multi-solar system TK, double the strength and durability of OF empowered thor, superspeed, ect. Desak will murderstomp CS if they fight.

Is very, very flawed. So, let's go.

1. Nothing Multi-Solar system there. In fact, the magic amp Twilight would give your team will only provide more fuel for Black Alice.

2. He would get double of nothing. As we have seen, as soon as Thor stopped using his energy blasts and used the Axe he oneshot killed Desak without much hardship. Same happened when he used Mjolnir in the later fight. Desak does not scale up to the combined powers of present gods, he just beats them because he is immune to their powers.

3. His Superspeed is not quite on the level of Superman who Hank actually Blitzed in combat.

Let's go on:

Actually, going by what has been shown so far, BA will get blindside beheaded by Desak and his clone before she can drain anyone, or she will be to busy running from the desaks to steal my teammates powers in which case she still dies. Even if she drained thor and kratos (as explained before she likely cant drain twi) she still wont even be close to as powerful as amped Desak and thus will still die.

BA gets lightspeed from the Perk, i cannot show her lightspeed feats since it only comes from the perk and there are no scans of her moving at that speed. She has drained enemies moving far faster than Desak however, and can move thousands of times faster than him thanks to the Perk. After Draining Thor and Kratos, it is 2v2 and Twilight lacks the durability to tango with Hank or the THor+ Kratos + Alicorn + Lightspeed Black Alice.

As for cyborg supes, if BA is unsuccessful in draining he is going to get ganged up on and destroyed pretty fast. You havent provided a single feat for him yet but from the last post i know he has an amazing healing factor, however this wont help much when he is being damaged over and over by my teams superior raw power and numbers.

Black Alice easily drains your team. But true, i did not provide feats in the opener, i apologize, my bad. I will post quite a bit of feats at the end of this post, but for now, here he is easily stomping Eradicator + Supergirl + Steele + Superboy. Also, your team doesn't have the numbers advantage at all since Thor and Kratos will be useless.

You said i didn't show any feats for him, and that is true, so it is time to show what he can do:

Strength:

As i said, his strength comes from the fact that he cloned the DNA of Kal El and thus is equally strong without his power rings, but, let's show some scans:

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I don't like making these side by side images too long, so the last one goes here, he also snapped Monguls arm like a twig. As you can see, he is easily as strong as Clark or stronger.

Durability:

This is where he shines, even without his healing factor he is insanely durable:

Gallery

My personal fav - Tanks an omega beam (proof)

Speed:

As i have said, his physicals come from copying Superman's powers + his tech. This means he can fight as fast as Supes and he shows this by fighting none other than Superman (and also Doomsday, Hal Jordan Etc):

Bullrushes:

Gallery

Combat:

As we all know bullrushing is usually not enough to make a solid case for combat speed, what we need to see is him adjusting mid fight. And i actually can do just that:

In the can of him blitzing Superman he actually did it in response to being smacked by Big Blue (which he no sold, as if i need any more durability feats), and he blitzed Superman straight back to Earth to continue to pummel his ass (notice how every punch makes Superman make a Sonic boom).

Ranged Attacks:

Just like Superman he has his heat vision, freeze breath and then some more ranged attacks that come with technopathy, let's take a quick look:

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Technopathy:

His healing factor and immortality both come back to this, he has complete control over machinery and can use it to repair any damage he sustains during combat. He is also basically truly immortal by "conventional" means. He even survived attacks that took out the Anti-Monitor. In the speed department you can see him reassembling instantly to destroy Doomsday so you can be sure that his "fixing" power is without match, however, this is the proof of his immortality and the reason i want 200 manhunters which he can summon at will (also have the scans to back it up should the need arise).

This should be enough of his feats for now, i have some even better, but they could be considered outliers.

Prep - Well, if we conveniently forget the In-Character behavior rule, his prep would be valid, except for a couple of tiny details:

1. Thor never summoned the gear he wants to use under his own power. It was sent to him by Odin. (Outside Help)

2. Desak would murder both Thor and Kratos during prep. Last known order for him was to kill Thor at all costs. Brony wants us to believe the Designate would stop him but that would be - Outside help

3. Twilight never used the Accelero+Clone spells together. In fact, it was only done by Starlight who has proven to be better than twi as she was capable of handling twilight while Twi had her Alicorn powers (starlight is a lot weaker). Since she had a LOT less power and she stalemated Twi, it is safe to assume the difference is in the skill.

4. In fact, that combo of spells was never used on anybody but the caster.

5. Kratos never summoned hordes to fight for him. He wouldn't do so now.

6. He amps them by using technology made by twilight. Cyborg Superman uses the tech against them. As he usually does.

Battle - He wants Thor and Kratos to block Hank for Desak while Desak fights Alice. It does have significant flaws.

1. They get de-powered and die.

2. Alice would have combined powers of Thor+Kratos+Alicorn amps + Lightspeed Perk, and thus easily capable of surviving till Thor and Kratos are dispatched.

3. Desak didn't show feats to prove that him absorbing blasts amps him that much. In fact, after absorbing a LOT of Odin Force (a lot more than his entire team could muster during prep) he was still out-sped by Thialfi, and murdered by Thor. If absorbing energy amped him as much as he claims, taking in that much should mean he should be capable of manhandling an already injured, and spent Thor. But no, he lost. And yes, i know the Axe of Skurge has enchantments, but if he was as impressive as you claim with the draining he should never allow Thor to land that hit.

4. Feats. I have presented Hank's now, until i see better one's from you Desak loses his fight.

5. With mountaintop durability Twilight wouldn't withstand a single blast from Hank or Black Alice.

Of course, if we ignore the standard rules of ComicVine (in-character behavior and teamwork.) his team sounds great. But realistically, he made a horrible mistake in putting together characters who hate each other.