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#1 Edited by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 2 of the second edition of my 2017 high tier pyp.

@emperorthanos

Characters

  • New 52 Martian Manhunter 5
  • Ronan 3
  • Iceman 4
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Perks

  • 3 hours of prep 3
  • Lighspeed(Ronan) 7
  • Extra Character Points 5

Versus

@major_hellstorm

Characters

  • Kid Omega 2
  • Ban 1
  • Metamorpho 1
  • DCAU Amazo 6
  • Witchblade 2
  • Kurome 1
  • Vlad Plasmius 1
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Perks:

  • 2 Extra Character Points x2 (costs 10)
  • Adamantium Weaponry for Kurome 2
  • Hour of prep 1
  • X-Men 1

Rules

  1. Win by Death, Incap or KO.
  2. Standard Gear.
  3. No time manipulation.
  4. No speed steal
  5. No BFR.
  6. No reality warping
  7. No Summons stronger than 616 spider-man.
  8. Summons are limited to 200
  9. Cloning is limited to 10

Voting Rules:

  1. Vote for the better debater
  2. Do not vote on which character you think you will win
  3. Give reasoning to your vote.
  4. I will count the total votes
  5. If I feel a vote is unjustified or biased I will not count it.

Battle ground

Indestructible planet with no other people on it except for the fighters.

No Caption Provided

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#2 Posted by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by shirso (4638 posts) - - Show Bio

DCAU Amazo is that powerful ?

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#4 Posted by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

DCAU Amazo is that powerful ?

Well actually he is even more powerful. Major is using a weaker incarnation.

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#5 Posted by ASGARDIANBRONY (11629 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

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#6 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Not the version I am using. But power copying is that OP in my opinion.

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#7 Edited by Vertigo- (17841 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Your name isn't in the OP like Hellstorms is. Makes it look off.

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#8 Edited by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm:ok opener.

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Martian Manhunter

Bio

J'onn J'onzz or as he is better known Martian Manhunter is an alien from Mars. He is the last survivor of his planet who came to Earth. He soon became a Hero and joined to Justice League. However that was short lived as a fight ensued between him and the other members of the League. He would later be a part of Storm and the government created Justice League of America. He is one of the most powerful heroes on the DC Earth, comparable to Superman himself except with more powers.

Power and abilites

As you can tell J'onn is a martian which gives him an array of abilities due to his Martian physiology. He has physicals that can rival that of Superman. On top of that he posses several other abilities, which makes him an extremely dangerous opponents do deal with.

  • Superhuman strength
  • Superhuman durability
  • Superhuman speed
  • Telepathy
  • Telekinesis
  • Intangibility
  • Phasing
  • Regeneration
  • Invisibility
  • Shape sifting
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Ronan the Accuser

Bio

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Powers and Abilities

Ronan's power comes from his universal weapon. Which is universal in application not power. Which means it gives him a variety of abilities that he can use through the weapon.

  1. Enhanced strength
  2. Enhanced durability
  3. Gravity Manipulation
  4. Shields
  5. Shockwaves
  6. Telekinesis
  7. Energy Draining
  8. Molecule manip
  9. technology deconstruction
  10. weather manip
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Iceman

Bio

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Powers and Abilities

Fairly self explanatory. He is called Ice-man for a reason.

  • Superhuman strength
  • Superhuman speed
  • Superhuman speed
  • Ice Manipulation
  • regeneration
  • omnipresence

Prep

So during the 3 hours of prep the first thing my team will do is get MMH to telepathically unlock Iceman's full potential. This has been done by telepaths in the past such as Emma Frost or Psylocke as well as through other means like the the Death Seed. Here is an example of Psylocke doing so in Dark Reign the List X-men.

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Iceman as shown above will voluntarily allow this to happen considering he is going to be in a deathmatch soon. With this Iceman will uses his powers to freeze the entire battlefiled which in this case is the planet. He was able to do when he was in possession of the death seed and did so fairly quickly in Astonishing X-Men Vol 3 #62-63. And no there is a belief that the death seed amped however it was specifically stated by Mystique who also used the Death Seed, that it simply freed his mind to his full potential. Something a telepath of MMH's caliber can do considering a far inferior telepath like Psylocke was able to amp too .

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So now the entire world is cover in Ice which essentially gives Bobby omnipresence. Next Bobby will create an ice construct army. these are just contructs no summons so I'm not limited on how many can be created. These clones have been shown to give trouble to the likes of Red Hulk as shown in Wolverine and the X-Men #11 so at the very least your 1 pointers as well the x-men are going to have a hard time. Here is an instance of his various ice constructs taking on a bunch of monsters that were giving all of the x-men difficulty.

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Now that's essentially my prep. MMH will also create a telepathic link between my team for them to communicate. So at the start of my battle your team will have to deal with a large number of ice constructs.

The battle

Now with that done once the battle begins your team will have with some tough constructs. Now obviously your stronger members will survive but the inferior ones will like be killed. Based of how they deal with the constructs it will be evident to my team that Amazo is the strongest there and thus Iceman will personally deal with him.

MMH will probably recognize Kid Omega's tp and take him down as soon as he can. MMH in the new 52 was able to take down Despero in justice League #20. A telepath who has shown planet level mind control. MMH was no match for him physically but cometely shut him down telepathically and put him in a coma. So kid omega shouldn't be an issue

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Now with the lightspeed perk Ronan is faster than anyone in your team bar maybe Amazo. With his speed he can quickly take out your weaker characters by turning them into bombs using molecular manip. In Annihilation Ronan #1 we see Ronan use matter manip on an opponent's hand and turn into bomb. He was also able to this with ease and from a distance away meaning he should be able to so here. And with lightspeeed it wouldn't take him long to do it to everyone.

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As for Ban he can keep him incapacitated with a gravity field. In fantastic four Vol 1 issue 54 we see him specifically increase the gravity on the thing to keep him. Thing describes this has the force of an entire planet crushing his back. Ronan did this casually so Ban will simply be trapped there for the fight. Until maybe he is frozen or just TPed

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This should be it for now. I need to know more about Amazo to make a case on beating him.

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#10 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos:

Quick Intros:

Since i have a lot of players in this game I will run by intros very quickly, only touching on the important stuff. If I skipped anything you think is important, tell me.

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  • Kurome. She is the sister of Akame and a former member of the Jaegers from Akame Ga Kill. She has a sword that can resurrect the dead.
  • X-Men. Gambit, Beast, Cyclops, Nightcrawler (not pictured) and Wolverine.
  • Witchblade. A gauntlet made from the Darkness and Angelus. It can fire blasts of energy and adapt to almost any situation.
  • Vlad Plamius. Ghost villain from Danny Phantom. He can fire blasts of ghost energy, turn himself and whatever he is touching invisible/intangible, clone himself and fly as well as have superhuman stats and posses people.
  • Amazo. Robot made by Professor Ivo top evolve. Has the powers of the JLA and copy other powers by looking.
  • Metamorpho. Archaeologist who found a gem that gave him the power to turn into any element.
  • Ban. Memeber of the Seven Deadly Sins. He has the power to steal almost anything as well as heal from almost anything.
  • Kid Omega. Snarky member of Xavier's school. He is an Omega Level mutant.

What They Bring To The Table:

Heralds of Amazo:

Each member of my team asides from Amazo won't be doing much since Amazo will have their powers, so in this section I will show what they offer him.

Kurome

She gives Amazo Yatsufusa, a zombie sword.

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X-Men

The X-Men offer their skills which Kid Omega will take. Of course Amazo will still take their powers but I will only mention what they do when needed because I doubt it will be useful in this battle.

Witchblade

It offers its versatility. Here is a scan of Sara saying that the Witchblade can learn and adapt to enemies

No Caption Provided

It does a whole lot of other stuff which will be mentioned as we go along.

Vlad Plamius

He offers his ghost powers. I will just give you a quote from Reddit's RT for an example:

Metamorpho

He offers his morphing powers:

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Ban

Ban offers his immortality

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And Snatch which can even steal physical abilities

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Kid Omega

He offers his telepathy. Here he is messing with Wolverine.

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The Powerhouse Himself:

Now, what does Amazo bring for himself? Well for starters he was the powers of the Justice League and has the power to replicate any power and/item just by looking at it. The best example of this is his fight against the Justice League (also it is important to note that I am only allowed to use Amazo's appearance from the first two episodes he was in, so silver version only):

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Prep Time!

Well for starters Amazo copies the powers and abilities of each of his team members, then he clones himself, using Vlad's powers, 9 times so there will be 10 Amazos. As shown before, each clone can act independently of one a another

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Meanwhile Kid Omega will set up a mind link and will make his team mates comply with his orders more easily (this is something Quin does regularly). Once that is done Vlad will take all of his team mates and go to the nearest vantage point, once there they will all turn intangible/invisible which is how they will stay unless they find an opportunity to attack if needed. Seperately, Amazo will send out 9 of his clones to surround the spawn point while floating invisibly/intangible.

Then Kid Omega will steal all the skills of the X-Men and give them to Amazo (or Amazo will do it since he has Quin's powers)

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Then he will create psychic constructs of telepathy blocking helmets like he did here:

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And those helmets were most likely modeled after Magneto's helmet which Quinton made earlier

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While he does that, Kurome, Amazo and his clones will all summon their underlings

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For a total of 77 underlings (two underlings are not shown and one might be above Spidey so he won't be used).

Recap:

  • Amazo copies everyone's powers.
  • Everyone turns invisible at a vantage point, while Amazo's 9 clones stay invisible at the battlefield.
  • Amazo gets the skills of the X-Men.
  • 77 underlings are summoned.

Counters: How The Battle Will Go

MMH will probably recognize Kid Omega's tp and take him down as soon as he can. MMH in the new 52 was able to take down Despero in justice League #20. A telepath who has shown planet level mind control. MMH was no match for him physically but cometely shut him down telepathically and put him in a coma. So kid omega shouldn't be an issue

Quire has shown the ability to overpower telepaths like Emma Frost

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So I doubt he would be a non issue. And all he really needs to do is put one of his constructs on MMH to block off his TP.

Now with the lightspeed perk Ronan is faster than anyone in your team bar maybe Amazo.

Yeah, Amzo is LS.

With his speed he can quickly take out your weaker characters by turning them into bombs using molecular manip. In Annihilation Ronan #1 we see Ronan use matter manip on an opponent's hand and turn into bomb. He was also able to this with ease and from a distance away meaning he should be able to so here. And with lightspeeed it wouldn't take him long to do it to everyone.

Since only the underlings will be visible I assume Ronan will manipulate them, giving the invisible Amazos enough time to scan Ronan's powers and copy him.

Summery:

So far it seems like you get rid of my underlings while Amazo power copies your team.

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#11 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm:

Prep Counters

Then he will create psychic constructs of telepathy blocking helmets like he did here:

So a couple of questions on this. What feats do these have? They could modeled after Magneto's helmet but that doesn't necessarily make his physic constructs as good. More over I'd assume he himself would not wear one so if he were to be taken out would I be right in assuming the constructs would be gone.

  • Everyone turns invisible at a vantage point, while Amazo's 9 clones stay invisible at the battlefield.

So two things. Invisibility isn't going to be of much help to your team. Like I said in my prep, Iceman's full powers will be unlocked and he will then cover the entire earth in Ice. This essentially gives him a level of omniscience atleast over everything on the planet. He explains this his father in Astonishing X-men #64. Iceman is everywhere, the snow, ice and even the water molecules in the air. He knows exactly what is going all across the planet.

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As such it doesn't even matter if you are invisible since you will still be touching the water in the air or stepping on snow or ice. Thus Iceman will know exactly where you are.

Battle Counters.

Quire has shown the ability to overpower telepaths like Emma Frost

So I doubt he would be a non issue. And all he really needs to do is put one of his constructs on MMH to block off his TP.

Except Emma is no where near the level of Telepath that Despero is let alone MMH who completely stomped him. For example in Death of Hawkman #5 Despero displayed planetary level telepathy when he managed to TP the entire population of a planet and turn them against Hawkman and Adam strange. And he did this whilst being several light years away from the planet. Yet MMH was able to dominate him and put him in a Coma.

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Yeah, Amzo is LS.

There nothing in that link? So until I see feats I'm inclined to believe he isn't. Also he has to be LS in combat or atleast have LS reactions to be able to deal with Ronan's speed. Otherwise he would simply get blitz like the rest of your team.

Since only the underlings will be visible I assume Ronan will manipulate them, giving the invisible Amazos enough time to scan Ronan's powers and copy him.

Well like I said Iceman will know where your team is regardless so Ronan will know exactly where the real team is. Plus your underlings would simply be killed by the large number of ice constructs and wouldn't warrant his attention. And lastly even if he were to attack them he would do it from afar so all Amazo would see is the underlings being blown up with no idea on how it was done or who did it.

So far it seems like you get rid of my underlings while Amazo power copies your team.

TBH your underlings would be dealt with by the constructs. And on top of that my team will know your team's location thanks to Iceman. So they won't bother with your underlings especially since there are constructs present.

On the topic of Amazo copying powers, all he would see is ice monsters fighting around. He wouldn't actually see Iceman using his powers atleast until it's too late.

Battle

Now taking into account both our strategies, my team has a huge element of surprise. Your team has no idea that the entire planet is essentially covered by their opponent and they have no idea that my team will know exactly where their location is despite them being invisible.

While the underlings will have to deal with Ice Constructs my team will directly attack yours. Ronan can still from afar turn pretty much all of them into bombs at the speed of light. While MMH can telepathically dominate Kid Omega.

That really only leaves Amazo as a threat. However there are a couple of ways to put him down. For starters MMH could probably simply TP him and put him into a coma. As he did to Despero. Or Ronan could simply use physical attacks to bring him. He has the feats of taking down extremely tough opponents

In Avengers Vol 5 #23 he and the other members of the galactic council take on Black Dwarf. A member of the Black Order that serves Thanos. As you can see below Black Dwarf was able to take on Annihilus, Gladiator and Super Skrull all at the same time until Ronan finished him off.

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Iceman can also restrain him to make it easier. He can do this by simply freezing all the molecules in his body like he did too Legion during the Legion Quest Story line in X-men #41.

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Amazo is really the only threat in your team and also the only one that doesn't get one shotted. However based of the feats presented so far I don't see him dealing with all 3 members of team. Especially when he has no actual means of killing Iceman, and would likely get blitzed by Ronan

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#15 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos:

Prep Counters

So a couple of questions on this. What feats do these have?

It blocked one of the Stepford Cuckoos.

They could modeled after Magneto's helmet but that doesn't necessarily make his physic constructs as good. More over I'd assume he himself would not wear one so if he were to be taken out would I be right in assuming the constructs would be gone.

True. But then again Amazo and all of his clones have the exact same powers so it doesn't matter.

So two things. Invisibility isn't going to be of much help to your team. Like I said in my prep, Iceman's full powers will be unlocked and he will then cover the entire earth in Ice. This essentially gives him a level of omniscience atleast over everything on the planet. He explains this his father in Astonishing X-men #64. Iceman is everywhere, the snow, ice and even the water molecules in the air. He knows exactly what is going all across the planet.

That's nice. But Like I said earlier my team is invisible and intangible.

"Once that is done Vlad will take all of his team mates and go to the nearest vantage point, once there they will all turn intangible/invisible which is how they will stay unless they find an opportunity to attack if needed. Seperately, Amazo will send out 9 of his clones to surround the spawn point while floating invisibly/intangible."

Here is Vlad using the power on a person to show that he can.

W
W

However I do apologist for not adding intangibility in the summery.

As such it doesn't even matter if you are invisible since you will still be touching the water in the air or stepping on snow or ice. Thus Iceman will know exactly where you are.

Exactly why we won't be doing any of that.

Battle Counters

Except Emma is no where near the level of Telepath that Despero is let alone MMH who completely stomped him. For example in Death of Hawkman #5 Despero displayed planetary level telepathy when he managed to TP the entire population of a planet and turn them against Hawkman and Adam strange. And he did this whilst being several light years away from the planet. Yet MMH was able to dominate him and put him in a Coma.

I wouldn't say no where near. Emma is powerful enough to stop Xavier from entering Iceman's mind.

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And not to keep scaling but Xaiever is a planetary telepath himself

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As you can see Xavier is harvesting the psychic power of aliens across space (which is basically the hero version of Despero's feat).

So yeah. I believe Kid Omega could hold his own. And if not, well he has 10 other telepaths with him anyway who would copy MMH's power to stomp.

There nothing in that link? So until I see feats I'm inclined to believe he isn't. Also he has to be LS in combat or atleast have LS reactions to be able to deal with Ronan's speed. Otherwise he would simply get blitz like the rest of your team.

That's weird. Anyway, here is the GL projecting at LS and Flash running at LS (Amazo has both of their powers). This time I will post the whole video.

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Well like I said Iceman will know where your team is regardless so Ronan will know exactly where the real team is.

Again, no he wouldn't.

Plus your underlings would simply be killed by the large number of ice constructs and wouldn't warrant his attention. And lastly even if he were to attack them he would do it from afar so all Amazo would see is the underlings being blown up with no idea on how it was done or who did it.

If the underlings are the only threat, Ronan wouldn't use his powers to speed the battle up? I kinda doubt that. And even if he did attack from afar, the Amazos could scout for the attacker since they would know that no ice clone would be able to do that and since Ronan isn't invisible he will be found.

TBH your underlings would be dealt with by the constructs. And on top of that my team will know your team's location thanks to Iceman. So they won't bother with your underlings especially since there are constructs present.

Countered.

On the topic of Amazo copying powers, all he would see is ice monsters fighting around. He wouldn't actually see Iceman using his powers atleast until it's too late.

Sorry. This is against what your scan said. Your scan said that Iceman is everywhere, in every piece of snow and you said "Iceman is everywhere, the snow, ice and even the water molecules in the air." So if Amazo scans the ice constructs, he would gain Iceman's abilities. This idea is supported by the fact that it seems like your constructs act more like clones.

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As you can see, Iceman speaks through multiple constructs. And here the one you would assume is his main body is blasted away but Bobby is fine.

Counters: Battle

While the underlings will have to deal with Ice Constructs my team will directly attack yours. Ronan can still from afar turn pretty much all of them into bombs at the speed of light.

Can Ronan transmute intangible matter? How does he even find my team?

While MMH can telepathically dominate Kid Omega.

No. Kid Omega should be able to handle himself and if not he has 10 other telepaths just as strong as he is to back him up, so if anything Amazo and KO dominate MMH.

That really only leaves Amazo as a threat. However there are a couple of ways to put him down. For starters MMH could probably simply TP him and put him into a coma. As he did to Despero.

How does MMH possibly overpower 10 omega level telepaths?

Or Ronan could simply use physical attacks to bring him. He has the feats of taking down extremely tough opponents

Besides that meaning nothing because Amazo could just copy Ronan's physicality (and the fact that I disagree with that feat). Amazo could just turn himself....wait for it, intangible. He has two ways to do this actually, first by using MMH's power (cartoon MMH) and second by using Vlad's power (doesn't really matter what he does though).

In Avengers Vol 5 #23 he and the other members of the galactic council take on Black Dwarf. A member of the Black Order that serves Thanos. As you can see below Black Dwarf was able to take on Annihilus, Gladiator and Super Skrull all at the same time until Ronan finished him off.

Now this, this really brings me back. In our very first debate I counters these exact scans. So I will just re-post my counters (tweaked a bit).

Counters: Black Dwarf

Black Dwarf was easily was defeated. Black Dwarf is weak when you take away power scaling. He was actually quickly defeated by the Galactic Council. Take a look at the scans again.

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  • (Scan 1) His weapon was shattered in one blow with ease.
  • (Scan 2) One blast from Annihilus made him cry out in pain (he said "hurkh!" to be exact).
  • (Scan 2) He was then restrained by Super Skull by himself.
  • (Scan 3) Then in Ronan's only attack in the entire fight, he one shots Black Dwarf.

This is not impressive at all. Yes, he did back Super Skrull bleed and knock Gladiator away, but SS is just a mid tier and Gladiator didn't sustain any real damage.

In fact Black Dwarf is weak enough to have been beaten by Black Panther (New Avengers Vol 3. Issue 9).

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Granted most of the fight was off panel. But the only one who could have help Black Panther was his on foot soldiers.

So that either means A. Black Dwarf is stronger than he is durable or B. Is weak all around.

Iceman can also restrain him to make it easier. He can do this by simply freezing all the molecules in his body like he did too Legion during the Legion Quest Story line in X-men #41.

Except he would have Iceman's powers so he could always undo the affects (or you know turn intangible because I doubt Iceman can freeze intangible matter).

How the Battle Goes:

Considering all that has been said here, I believe the battle will go like this:

  1. First the underlings and constructs fight. The constructs would destroy the underlings (because there are an unlimited amount of them) but before that, Amazo scans the constructs and gains Iceman's powers.
  2. Then he either uses his new found omniscience to find your team or he flies around in LS to scout for your team.
  3. Once he spots your team he will scan them for their powers. Then engage, once he engages the fight will pretty much be settled because there is no way your team beats a character with all your powers and more 9 times. However iuf that is not the case then the main Amazo and Kid Omega just telepathically overwhelm MMH (wither with MMH's powers or sheer numbers) then use telepathy to KO Ronan and Iceman.

Conclusion:

Missing intangibility was an oversight for your post. Though like I said, I apologies for not adding it in the summery, it was mentioned in the prep itself and in the power listing. Other than that, your team has no way of actually dealing with Amazo because he will always be 9 steps ahead of you and then some, meanwhile all my team has to do is either take out MMH or Ronan then use molecular manipulation or telepathy to take the reaming members of your team out.

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#16 Posted by shirso (4638 posts) - - Show Bio

Good to see this one's moving fast.

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#17 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Bump. Also btw, whoever wind this match, I want you to move on forward.

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#18 Edited by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn if I knew he was giving out Danny Phantom characters I would have bagged him instead of Darkrai.....that would have been perfect....

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#19 Posted by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: I'm stepping away from the Vine. Also, beating you (even if unlikely) is just as good as winning the tourney because to my knowledge you are the only HoFer left.

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#21 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18579 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: I'm stepping away from the Vine. Also, beating you (even if unlikely) is just as good as winning the tourney because to my knowledge you are the only HoFer left.

permanently?

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#22 Posted by shirso (4638 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@watcher5000: No. Just till the new year or until I catch up on all series I am behind on (I haven't even picked up any MCU show).

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#24 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Temporary. I think I told you before when our CaV was supposed to be my last one.

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#25 Posted by shirso (4638 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Yeah. But when you put it that way it sounds like a loser excuse. Lol.

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#27 Posted by shirso (4638 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Yeah. But when you put it that way it sounds like a loser excuse. Lol.

On the contrary I think its one of the best excuses for taking a break I've ever heard. But you can at least finish this tourney.

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#28 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: (Voters don't read) Mate, the possibility of ET not destroying me on his next post is approximately 10%. So this is where the tourney ends for me either way.

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#29 Posted by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm:

Counters

It blocked one of the Stepford Cuckoos.

Just one? that is no where near enough to suggest it can block MMH.

True. But then again Amazo and all of his clones have the exact same powers so it doesn't matter.

Having his doesn't necessarily mean they can use it the same way though.

That's nice. But Like I said earlier my team is invisible and intangible.

"Once that is done Vlad will take all of his team mates and go to the nearest vantage point, once there they will all turn intangible/invisible which is how they will stay unless they find an opportunity to attack if needed. Seperately, Amazo will send out 9 of his clones to surround the spawn point while floating invisibly/intangible."

Here is Vlad using the power on a person to show that he can.

Hmm I seemed to have missed that. But this brings up new questions. Such as can Vlad turn multiple invisible and intangible at the same time? You have shown him doing to one person but he has to be able to do this for your whole team because as long as the location of one is known we can find the others.

Also MMH can still find them telepathically so my team will still know where yours is.

I wouldn't say no where near. Emma is powerful enough to stop Xavier from entering Iceman's mind.

And not to keep scaling but Xaiever is a planetary telepath himself

So yeah. I believe Kid Omega could hold his own. And if not, well he has 10 other telepaths with him anyway who would copy MMH's power to stomp.

See here is the issue, all of this requires a fair bit of scaling so suggest he can deal with MMH. You seem to be implying that he is a planet level telepath simply because he tped Emma that one time. And emma then resisted Xavier some other time. There is quite a bit of scaling here to be honest. If they were all Xavier level in terms of telepathy then they should atleast have their won feats.

But I'm going to try break this down a little. First of with the feat you initially presented. When Quentin attack Emma, she was busy dealing a with the Phoniex. The phoenix was weakened but she was still using her telepathic powers to stop the phoniex which allowed Quentin to attack her with more ease. What makes me believe this is the fact that Emma was able to casually TP Quentin in Schism #2 to make him soil himself. So in direct conflict his TP isn't greater than Emma's

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Another example of him losing to a telepath inferior to MMH in Wolverine and the X-men #12. Here he faces of Rachel Grey. This was a training excercise and well she showed him who the superior telepath really is.

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Clearly he can be beaten by telepaths. Even at best they all scale from Xavier who is at best at Despero's level. Which is great but MMH completely stomped Despero. Also in your very scan Xavier is stated to be the best human telepath implying that no one else could replicate the feat he performed right there.

OH and Before you ask. MMH has displayed a planet level telepathy feat of his own so even if forgoe scaling he is superior to Kid Omega by their own feats. Here he telepathically talks to the entire population of Mars.

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So yeah. I believe Kid Omega could hold his own. And if not, well he has 10 other telepaths with him anyway who would copy MMH's power to stomp.

10 telepaths aren't going to help. In the end they are all vastly inferior to MMH tp wise. So numbers isn't going to help them when they are all inferior to him in telepath. Also simply having telepathy doesn't make you a powerful telepath. MMH has his experience and skill with TP on top having superior raw telepathic power. So even if there is 10 of them, MMH will still put them down.

Another point on the telepaths is whether Amazo can even copy something like telepathy. Every power he has copied was by seeing it, he sees superhuman strength or he sees a ring or mace etc. But you don't see telepathy that wouldn't make any sense so how would he copy something he can't see. Unless of course you have evidence of him doing so I see no actual proof to suggest he can copy telepathy when he can't even see it. On top of that telepathy is a power of varying levels eg. MMH has more telepathic power and Kid Omegas. But there are telepaths even inferior to Kid Omega. When he copies telpathy would it necessarily be on the same level as Kid Omega?

You are going to have prove that not only can copy telepath, an ability which can be see physically but copy it and use at the same level as Kid Omega(Which even then still isn't enough)

That's weird. Anyway, here is the GL projecting at LS and Flash running at LS (Amazo has both of their powers). This time I will post the whole video.

Alright several stuff to say about this. The glaring one being it is not a combat speed showing or even showing reaction time. Another thing is that they had to combine their speeds to achieve light speed. Amazo simply having their powers doesn't automatically mean he can use them in the same way they do or combine them they way they have here to achieve light speed. Unless Amazo has displayed such speeds on his own I don't see why Ronan wouldn't blitz.

If the underlings are the only threat, Ronan wouldn't use his powers to speed the battle up? I kinda doubt that. And even if he did attack from afar, the Amazos could scout for the attacker since they would know that no ice clone would be able to do that and since Ronan isn't invisible he will be found.

Why would he need to. Your team of street levelers will die fairly quickly due to the sheer number of ice constructs attack them, they aren't going to last more than a minute due to sheer numbers. Ronan will only interfere when they aren't able to fight.

Also on the topic of underlings there is probably something else I should mention that I forgot to in the previous post. Kuromes underling are all people she has killed in the past with her blade. People who Amazo hasn't killed. Why exactly would copying the powers of her sword allow him to copy and create clones of the people? He didn't kill them with the sword, he has yet to kill anyone with his copy of the weapon. Copying items and powers is one thing but copying a person and recreating them isn't something you have shown Amazo to be able to do. It doesn't really matter in the grand shceme of things but it is clearly an issue with the strat.

And finally, if amyone is going to intervene it is going to be your team. After the the underlings get slaughtered, are your team just going to stay in their position

Sorry. This is against what your scan said. Your scan said that Iceman is everywhere, in every piece of snow and you said "Iceman is everywhere, the snow, ice and even the water molecules in the air." So if Amazo scans the ice constructs, he would gain Iceman's abilities. This idea is supported by the fact that it seems like your constructs act more like clones.

The very first quote of that scan is "Bobby, incredible, controlling multiple ice bodies" He is controlling them, they aren't his clones. And you are going to have to proof that simply looking at a construct that doesn't have any near the level of iceman's ice manipulation is going to allow him access to the entirety of Iceman's vast powerset. Also why would Amazo scan just random ice? What would he hope to gain by that when he has no idea there is someone there. Also again this the same as saying analyzing one construct gives you the ring.

Also copying the constructs will also back fire by the way. As shown in your scans Amazo copies everything about them so their weakness too like Superman's kryptonite weakness. So if your Amazo do analyze and become like the clones. Then they will like become ice as well since that is literally the only ability these clones have. Which just means they can be manipulated by Iceman which just helps my team.

The Battle

No. Kid Omega should be able to handle himself and if not he has 10 other telepaths just as strong as he is to back him up, so if anything Amazo and KO dominate MMH.

I have presented two instance of him being easily tped by telepaths vastly inferior to MMH. MMH stomps him and all the other 10 telepaths there beucase he has vastly sueprior feats it is as simply as that.

How does MMH possibly overpower 10 omega level telepaths?

By having superior feats. If you can present to me even one instance of him displaying close to planet level TP or taking someone with feats of planet level tp then you may have a case. But I know those feats don't exist. While MMH has displayed planet level tp and has casually stomped a planet level telepath.

You can have a 100 city level telepaths but in a full on battle they would lose to a planetary one due the latter simply having vastly greater telepathy. And in this case you haven't presented evidence to suggest Kid Omega is even city level. While MMH has not only displayed planet level telepathy, he has also stomped another planet level telepath.

Besides that meaning nothing because Amazo could just copy Ronan's physicality (and the fact that I disagree with that feat). Amazo could just turn himself....wait for it, intangible. He has two ways to do this actually, first by using MMH's power (cartoon MMH) and second by using Vlad's power (doesn't really matter what he does though).

Unfortunately he is too slow. You have yet to present a single combat or reaction speed feat to even suggest he can see Ronan. Let alone react in time to intangible to avoid his attacks. Also when does Amazo display MMH's abilties? You haven't presented a video of him using any of those abilities.

Also copying stats? When did Amazo show the ability to do that. He copied Superman's kryptonina physiology which gave him all his powers but also all his weaknesses. However Ronan's physiology doesn't come with that level of stats naturally and so I don't see how that would work.

This is not impressive at all. Yes, he did back Super Skrull bleed and knock Gladiator away, but SS is just a mid tier and Gladiator didn't sustain any real damage.

The blast from Annihilus did nothing to him in terms of damage. Him shouting something doesn't change that. He still knocked away both Gladiator and Superskurll. I have yet to see anything from Amazo that suggests he can replicate anything on that level.

In fact Black Dwarf is weak enough to have been beaten by Black Panther (New Avengers Vol 3. Issue 9).

You know the most important aspect of this? It was off panel. We have no idea how it happened or what black panther did. This was in Wakanda afterall where Black Panther would have access to a lot of equipment. And on top of that all it did was give him a bloody arm. Ronan one shotted him.

Also aside from that he also managed to take down Gladiator during Annihilators conquest while he was being posses by Adam Magus. Galdiator has better durability feats than Amazo and pretty much anyone in your team.

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Except he would have Iceman's powers so he could always undo the affects (or you know turn intangible because I doubt Iceman can freeze intangible matter).

What? Having his powers doesn't mean he can simply undo it. For 2 major reasons. THe obvious one being he is already forzen, he won;t be able to even think about doing anything when all his molecules are stopped. More importantly however, is that having Iceman's powers doesn't mean you can use them the same way. Iceman has years of experience and has been thought by other such Emma Frost on to use them so effectively. He also needs to be telepathcially unlocked to be able to use his powers to the extent which he can now. You still have molecules when intangible by the way so I don't see why it wouldn't work, especially if they are using MMH style intangibility.

Considering all that has been said here, I believe the battle will go like this:

  1. First the underlings and constructs fight. The constructs would destroy the underlings (because there are an unlimited amount of them) but before that, Amazo scans the constructs and gains Iceman's powers.
  2. Then he either uses his new found omniscience to find your team or he flies around in LS to scout for your team.
  3. Once he spots your team he will scan them for their powers. Then engage, once he engages the fight will pretty much be settled because there is no way your team beats a character with all your powers and more 9 times. However iuf that is not the case then the main Amazo and Kid Omega just telepathically overwhelm MMH (wither with MMH's powers or sheer numbers) then use telepathy to KO Ronan and Iceman.

Again those constructs are just constructs, if you notice they don't actually display any ice manipulation. they simply attack their opponents physically. So scanning them isn't going to help you at all. Like I said that is the equivalent of scanning a green lantern construct and then somehow getting a green lantern ring but that is not how it works.

Not a single feat presented suggest he can fly at such speeds. Flash and GL had to combine their speeds to achieve LS. And there is no indication that Amazo can use his powers to repeat the same way. Amzo is getting blitz to be honest. Also one more thing is why would they do that to begin with. All they will see thousands onf ice consturcts, and all they would know is that these ice constructs are their enemies and there is no else to scout for.

He has to see their powers before that can happen. But he doesn't have the reaction time or speed to see Ronan let alone get time to analyze his weapon. MMH will simply TP him from afar. Considering his vastly superior telepathy.

Overall your entire argument is based on assumption while my team posses vastly superior feats. MMH has superior telepathy based of his actual feats. Adding 10 people on Kid Omega's level isn't going to be enough. And I'm not even sure he can copy telepathy but even if copied Kid Omega's. MMH will put him and his clones down all at once, so he isn't going to be able to copy anything. if he already taken out.

Overall

Going by our individual strategies, the first thing that is going to happen is the battle between the ice clones and well really just 7 summons since just having Kurome's sword doesn't give you the people she has killed in the past. So they will be quickly dispatched and honestly that would be the case even with the 77 summons. So now your team is all in one place invisible and intangible, though again you are going to have to prove Vlad can turn multiple people intangible at the same time or else that isn't going to work.

And either way your team can still be found telepathically thanks to MMH. Now I have my doubts on whether Amazo can copy an ability like telepathy which can't really be seen or analyzed. But even if he did, adding 10 telepaths on Kid Omega's level isn't going to somehow tip the favor. Kid Omega has been easily tped by both Emma Frost and Rachel Grey both of whom by feats are inferior to Despero who in turn in inferior to MMH. So numbers isn't going to help(It is around the equivalent of saying 10 city level energy users can overpower a planetary one).

However the most important point I should make is that is your team simply going to stay in their position once the underlings are beaten? Because from their point of view, these ice clones are their opponents. They have no prior knowledge and thus wouldn't know that those are just constructs. Which means they will have to directly attack them. And the moment they do their location will be known. After that Iceman can simply freeze them all , MMH can TP them all or Ronan can blitz them all. And you the thing with your plan is that it has to be your team who attacks first since my team has no reason to interfere when the constructs are easily killing off the underlings. So your team will attack first and that will cost them.

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#31 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Dang, I missed this. I will try to get a post up soon. This will be our last posts, right?

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#32 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters

Just one? that is no where near enough to suggest it can block MMH.

You're forgetting that the physical model blocked Charles Xavier, here is the scan again.

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And his psychic constructs should be as good if not better than the real thing, as they can be so detailed that he can run a construct world down hyper detailed down to the pixel.

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Having his doesn't necessarily mean they can use it the same way though.

And why not? Amazo copies everything when he takes powers, even a person's character.

Hmm I seemed to have missed that. But this brings up new questions. Such as can Vlad turn multiple invisible and intangible at the same time? You have shown him doing to one person but he has to be able to do this for your whole team because as long as the location of one is known we can find the others.

He never tried. However I don't see why it would pose a problem to him as in the episode Phantom Planet, Vlad claims that he has the ability to turn a meteor that could wipe out humanity intangible and tries to do it (implying that he is not lying). He only fails when he discovers the meteor is made out of an anti-ghost substance.

Also MMH can still find them telepathically so my team will still know where yours is.

No, he cannot. We have psychic defenses.

See here is the issue, all of this requires a fair bit of scaling so suggest he can deal with MMH. You seem to be implying that he is a planet level telepath simply because he tped Emma that one time. And emma then resisted Xavier some other time. There is quite a bit of scaling here to be honest. If they were all Xavier level in terms of telepathy then they should atleast have their won feats.

He does. Here is Quetin being connected to every mind in the world and unwillingly blocking Charles Xaivier

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This was while he was undergoing his secondary mutation which turned him into an energy being.

It also shows him having FTL teleapthy and although he has since become a physical being again he still has the same level of power, here he is telepathically beating Martha in FTL speeds.

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But I'm going to try break this down a little. First of with the feat you initially presented. When Quentin attack Emma, she was busy dealing a with the Phoniex. The phoenix was weakened but she was still using her telepathic powers to stop the phoniex which allowed Quentin to attack her with more ease.

It was implied that Quentin could have done it either way. Which is why when Emma Frost states that the Phoenix cannot beat them he says that he can.

What makes me believe this is the fact that Emma was able to casually TP Quentin in Schism #2 to make him soil himself. So in direct conflict his TP isn't greater than Emma's

I believe that was when he just got his body back which is why he was weaker than normal the entire issue. Heck, he was even dumber than normal, allowing Wolverine to track him when he usually just hides from Logan when he doesn't want to be tracked (something he can do with ease).

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Another example of him losing to a telepath inferior to MMH in Wolverine and the X-men #12. Here he faces of Rachel Grey. This was a training excercise and well she showed him who the superior telepath really is.

That was not a training exercise, Kid Omega just entered her mind during a lecture. The only reason why Kid Omega didn't protect himself is because he has a crush on Rachel and probably just wanted to impress her (but she was not in the mood as she is more irritable in that story than usual). As your own scans showed he easily bypassed her own telapathic defenses to read her mind, and he it it without her noticing (which is why he had to say that he could enter her mind before she kicked him out).

Clearly he can be beaten by telepaths. Even at best they all scale from Xavier who is at best at Despero's level. Which is great but MMH completely stomped Despero. Also in your very scan Xavier is stated to be the best human telepath implying that no one else could replicate the feat he performed right there.

OH and Before you ask. MMH has displayed a planet level telepathy feat of his own so even if forgoe scaling he is superior to Kid Omega by their own feats. Here he telepathically talks to the entire population of Mars.

All things considered, I now believe that MMH has the telepathic edge against Quire. Not anything near stomp worthy (because the only reason MMH handily beat Despero is the skill gap) but a gap big enough to suggest that Kid Omega would lose a prolonged battle. However he has one trick up his sleeve that can allow him to beat MMH. in the form of psychic weaponry which allow him to directly go into a person's mind. He used this against Storm to one shot her.

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Not too impressed? Well, that's okay because the real showing is when he used it to OHKO Jean Grey.

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10 telepaths aren't going to help. In the end they are all vastly inferior to MMH tp wise. So numbers isn't going to help them when they are all inferior to him in telepath. Also simply having telepathy doesn't make you a powerful telepath. MMH has his experience and skill with TP on top having superior raw telepathic power. So even if there is 10 of them, MMH will still put them down.

This is kind of a crazy assertion to make. Even Kid Omega can be beaten by telepaths weaker than him if they outnumber him. Here he is being blasted back by the Stephord Cuckoos (who are individually inferior to him, even with the amp they had here).

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Also proof that Kid Omega does stupid things for the girls he has a crush on.

So it is possible for a telepath to be beaten by multiple inferior telepaths. And in the note of experience and skill, Kid Omega (and by extension Amazo) were taught by Charles Xavier and Emma Frost so I doubt he has that much more skill.

Another point on the telepaths is whether Amazo can even copy something like telepathy. Every power he has copied was by seeing it, he sees superhuman strength or he sees a ring or mace etc. But you don't see telepathy that wouldn't make any sense so how would he copy something he can't see. Unless of course you have evidence of him doing so I see no actual proof to suggest he can copy telepathy when he can't even see it.

Pretty sure I told you (in the PM) Amazo copied cartoon MMH's powers including his telepathy. Here he is getting and using it (0:47)

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On top of that telepathy is a power of varying levels eg. MMH has more telepathic power and Kid Omegas. But there are telepaths even inferior to Kid Omega. When he copies telpathy would it necessarily be on the same level as Kid Omega?

Yes, he copies powers perfectly. Watch this video until 1:12.

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As you can see Hawkgirl says that it acted like her (which I claimed earlier) and Wonder Woman says that it is as strong as she is after it copied her powers.

You are going to have prove that not only can copy telepath, an ability which can be see physically but copy it and use at the same level as Kid Omega

Done and done. 2 points for House Hellstorm.

(Which even then still isn't enough)

It's really up to the voters at this point but I strongly disagree (I don't think that it would even take all 10 Amzos and Kid Omega to bring MMH down).

Alright several stuff to say about this. The glaring one being it is not a combat speed showing or even showing reaction time.

Travel speed is reaction speed (not vice versa though). And I don't need LS combat speed when you will give it to me.

Another thing is that they had to combine their speeds to achieve light speed. Amazo simply having their powers doesn't automatically mean he can use them in the same way they do or combine them they way they have here to achieve light speed. Unless Amazo has displayed such speeds on his own I don't see why Ronan wouldn't blitz.

They didn't literally combined their speeds. GL just made the runway for Flash to run on. They were both individually LS. Ronan can't blitz because despite him having better combat speed, Amazo still has comparable travel speed and can scan him from a distance to copy his power before engaging.

Why would he need to. Your team of street levelers will die fairly quickly due to the sheer number of ice constructs attack them, they aren't going to last more than a minute due to sheer numbers. Ronan will only interfere when they aren't able to fight.

I never said you needed to. But Ronan always seemed like the guns blazing type. For example he fought a guy the Annihilators didn't think he could beat because someone said that he was the weakest Annihilator.

Also on the topic of underlings there is probably something else I should mention that I forgot to in the previous post. Kuromes underling are all people she has killed in the past with her blade. People who Amazo hasn't killed. Why exactly would copying the powers of her sword allow him to copy and create clones of the people? He didn't kill them with the sword, he has yet to kill anyone with his copy of the weapon. Copying items and powers is one thing but copying a person and recreating them isn't something you have shown Amazo to be able to do. It doesn't really matter in the grand shceme of things but it is clearly an issue with the strat.

What you should understand is Amazo copies everything perfectly. He copied GL's ring even though he didn't have enough will power. The wepon's terms and conditions do not matter to him.

And finally, if amyone is going to intervene it is going to be your team. After the the underlings get slaughtered, are your team just going to stay in their position

Yeah. My team already planned for that.

The very first quote of that scan is "Bobby, incredible, controlling multiple ice bodies" He is controlling them, they aren't his clones.

Clones are controlled as well, are they not? Vlad controls his clones as well.

And you are going to have to proof that simply looking at a construct that doesn't have any near the level of iceman's ice manipulation is going to allow him access to the entirety of Iceman's vast powerset.

In the Age of Apocalypse story Iceman's clones can manipulate ice as well, here they are creating ice spikes to move.

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Also why would Amazo scan just random ice? What would he hope to gain by that when he has no idea there is someone there. Also again this the same as saying analyzing one construct gives you the ring.

Random ice? He will copy the ice attacking his street level army. Also what ring?

Also copying the constructs will also back fire by the way. As shown in your scans Amazo copies everything about them so their weakness too like Superman's kryptonite weakness.

For a time yes. But like Doomsday, he can evolve out of weaknesses.

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So if your Amazo do analyze and become like the clones. Then they will like become ice as well since that is literally the only ability these clones have.

Is it really? You might argue that the scans I showed above is non-canon (since it is) and dismiss it but in this scan I am pretty sure Bobby's clones freeze wolverine and shoot spikes out from themselves.

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Which just means they can be manipulated by Iceman which just helps my team.

I disagree. But if ever Amazo still has Metamorpho's powers and can switch into any element that he wants.

The Battle

I have presented two instance of him being easily tped by telepaths vastly inferior to MMH. MMH stomps him and all the other 10 telepaths there beucase he has vastly sueprior feats it is as simply as that.

Vastly superior feats? I'll stop you right there. MMH beating Despero handily is a great feat but it only happened because MMH is skilled and Despero is a brute using raw power. Basically this happened (Emma beating Rachel despite Rachel being many times stronger than her). If you compare feats of actual power we are both only planetary, you are in no way 10x better than us.

By having superior feats. If you can present to me even one instance of him displaying close to planet level TP or taking someone with feats of planet level tp then you may have a case. But I know those feats don't exist. While MMH has displayed planet level tp and has casually stomped a planet level telepath.

Luckily for me I have. The scan of Kid Omega blocking Xavier's mind and hearing the thoughts of people around the world is confirmed planetary.

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You can have a 100 city level telepaths but in a full on battle they would lose to a planetary one due the latter simply having vastly greater telepathy. And in this case you haven't presented evidence to suggest Kid Omega is even city level.

That's lowballing. Even just the name Kid Omega should tell you that this guy isn't city level. But now that I have proven that he is planetary that should be the end of that.

While MMH has not only displayed planet level telepathy, he has also stomped another planet level telepath.

He stomped Despero who, I believe, at the time had very few feats and is unskilled. Kid Omega by himself is planetary and has the power to easily beat skilled telepaths like Emma Frost and enter the winds of skilled planetary telepaths like Rachel Grey (she become more skilled in modern times) and Charles Xavier against their will. He can hold his own and can beat MMh with Amazo's help.

Unfortunately he is too slow. You have yet to present a single combat or reaction speed feat to even suggest he can see Ronan. Let alone react in time to intangible to avoid his attacks.

Travel speed is reaction speed and he can trun invisible stay he scans Ronan.

Also when does Amazo display MMH's abilties? You haven't presented a video of him using any of those abilities.

Well now I have.

Also copying stats? When did Amazo show the ability to do that. He copied Superman's kryptonina physiology which gave him all his powers but also all his weaknesses. However Ronan's physiology doesn't come with that level of stats naturally and so I don't see how that would work.

He copied Flash's speed which obviously comes from the speed force. I don't know where Ronan's power comes from but it should work the same way.

The blast from Annihilus did nothing to him in terms of damage. Him shouting something doesn't change that. He still knocked away both Gladiator and Superskurll. I have yet to see anything from Amazo that suggests he can replicate anything on that level.

The blast hurt him and while hitting Glads away is impressive and better than Amazo's feats of strength, it is not enough to tip the battle in your favor. Plus like i said i have two easy counters to strength/speed.

You know the most important aspect of this? It was off panel. We have no idea how it happened or what black panther did. This was in Wakanda afterall where Black Panther would have access to a lot of equipment. And on top of that all it did was give him a bloody arm. Ronan one shotted him.

We didn't see BP hold any equipment in the after pages so we cannot assume he had some sort of super weapon.

Also aside from that he also managed to take down Gladiator during Annihilators conquest while he was being posses by Adam Magus. Galdiator has better durability feats than Amazo and pretty much anyone in your team.

Take down? Gladiator looked fine after the hit, Quasar just restrained him after.

What? Having his powers doesn't mean he can simply undo it. For 2 major reasons. THe obvious one being he is already forzen, he won;t be able to even think about doing anything when all his molecules are stopped.

Iceman can be frozen?

More importantly however, is that having Iceman's powers doesn't mean you can use them the same way. Iceman has years of experience and has been thought by other such Emma Frost on to use them so effectively. He also needs to be telepathcially unlocked to be able to use his powers to the extent which he can now.

Amazo can unlock his powers using telepathy and he can also steal information from people as I have already showed (using Kid Omega's powers).

You still have molecules when intangible by the way so I don't see why it wouldn't work, especially if they are using MMH style intangibility.

It wouldn't work because my intangibility comes from ghost powers meaning magic. So you would need to prove that it would work.

Again those constructs are just constructs,

Even the Comic Vine Wiki calls them clones.....

"The youngest member of the original X-Men. Bobby is an Omega-level mutant, although it took some help from Emma Frost to realize this. Bobby's control of ice is vast; he can create shields, clones, spikes, slides and also freeze others. He currently teaches at the Jean Grey School for Higher Learning."

if you notice they don't actually display any ice manipulation. they simply attack their opponents physically. So scanning them isn't going to help you at all. Like I said that is the equivalent of scanning a green lantern construct and then somehow getting a green lantern ring but that is not how it works.

HAn alternate reality version of him has clones with powers and a main continuity version of him also has clones with his powers.

Not a single feat presented suggest he can fly at such speeds. Flash and GL had to combine their speeds to achieve LS. And there is no indication that Amazo can use his powers to repeat the same way.

It makes zero sense that GL and Flash combined their powers to go LS. There is indication, in fact Amazo flew at Flash speeds in his fight with the Justice League to dodge an attack.

Amzo is getting blitz to be honest.

I diagree. But even if he does with his current speed he could always copy Ronan's powers before engaging (as I have said before).

Also one more thing is why would they do that to begin with. All they will see thousands onf ice consturcts, and all they would know is that these ice constructs are their enemies and there is no else to scout for.

Your team never hid during prep. They should be out in the open.

He has to see their powers before that can happen.

No, no he does not.

But he doesn't have the reaction time or speed to see Ronan let alone get time to analyze his weapon. MMH will simply TP him from afar. Considering his vastly superior telepathy.

If he is invisible is won';t matter cause Ronan won't be moving. And no MMH will not be TPing to win.

Overall your entire argument is based on assumption

In what way?

while my team posses vastly superior feats. MMH has superior telepathy based of his actual feats. Adding 10 people on Kid Omega's level isn't going to be enough. And I'm not even sure he can copy telepathy but even if copied Kid Omega's. MMH will put him and his clones down all at once, so he isn't going to be able to copy anything. if he already taken out.

This is has all been countered.

Overall:

I pretty much covered this too so here is all of the claims you made that I find to be baseless and my reason behind it:

well really just 7 summons since just having Kurome's sword doesn't give you the people she has killed in the past. This makes no sense. AMazo can copy magical items to function exactly like the original. He can even make items he shouldn't be able to use (power ring). So you will have to explain why he cannot duplicate dead people.

And either way your team can still be found telepathically thanks to MMH. When has MMH found someone with TP resistance comparable to Magneto's?

telepathy which can't really be seen or analyzed. Flat out wrong.

10 telepaths on Kid Omega's level isn't going to somehow tip the favor. Why not? You seem to be lowballing Kid Omega considerable through context ridden scans.

However the most important point I should make is that is your team simply going to stay in their position once the underlings are beaten?

The Amazos will not. They will scan the ice clones.

Because from their point of view, these ice clones are their opponents. They have no prior knowledge and thus wouldn't know that those are just constructs. Which means they will have to directly attack them.

My team should be able to find yours easily (as you did not mention hiding or even masking yourself telepathically before the battle, unless I missed it) so we would know the constructs are just fodder. But if not, then Amazo will just copy and control them.

And the moment they do their location will be known.

The moment they do? That is a clear assumption.

After that Iceman can simply freeze them all , MMH can TP them all or Ronan can blitz them all. And you the thing with your plan is that it has to be your team who attacks first since my team has no reason to interfere when the constructs are easily killing off the underlings. So your team will attack first and that will cost them.

My team will be able to sense yours through telepathy or just plain sight honestly. Your prep only had you making it snow and making an army, again, nothing about hiding.

Conclusion:

Basically the only question presented is, can your team beat Amazo before he copies your powers? And the answer is no. First of all, telepathy wise MMH will not be able to beat 12 Kid Omegas. Second of all Ronan will not be able to find my team or blitz Amazo. But most importantly my team starts hidden while your does not, meaning we can take your powers the second the battle starts.

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#33 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#34 Posted by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: going top look through it first. Just to see if there is anything i need to reply to

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#35 Posted by shirso (4638 posts) - - Show Bio

SO is it open?

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#36 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: Oh whatever I'm not going to get the time to reply anyway. So I will open it up.

BTW if you win you are still free to continue participating in this tourney. I would prefer if the actual winner goes through.

Moderator
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#39 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Edited by Sly_141 (3216 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump for votes

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#41 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Posted by Sly_141 (3216 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Posted by Sly_141 (3216 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll be able to vote by the end of tonight

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#44 Posted by Sly_141 (3216 posts) - - Show Bio

Based on the arguments, it's kind of hard to choose who to vote for but for right now I'll side with Emp because I believe he offered more feasible ways to take MHs team out. While I do believe that eventually Amazo could take Icemans powers I'm not sure how that would give your team the win here whereas Emp stated specific plans to deal with your team based on the evidence provided. Another thing being MMH seems to outpace Kid Omega and his equivalents here as he had stomped someone who is perceived to be on their based on the debate. The fact that he stomped Despero who has similar feats to Kid Omega seems to indicate that no matter how many clones MH brought to the table there'd be a disparity between the levels of TP here. It'd be like having a bunch of Babidis trying to TP Prof X.

MH if you feel that there is anything I skipped over in this post please share with me so I can make my vote as accurate as possible

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#45 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@sly_141: One thing about the Despero feat I mentioned, is that Despero is basically an unskilled brute compared to MMH. Whereas Kid Omega is not. This is important because in the Marvel universe, it has been proven that with skill weaker telepaths can beat planetary level ones. So I don't find the Despero feat to me that amazing IMO.

And remember, Amazo can cooy MMH's powers too.

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#46 Posted by Sly_141 (3216 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: Interesting. Would argue that Kid Omega has enough skill to best MMH?

I do think think that MMH could TP Amazo before he copies them buts that's just a possibility.

However having Kid Omega TP being able to hold off MMH would be strengthen your arguments appeal.

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#47 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@sly_141: Honestly no, I would not. But he could certainly hold his own.

Maybe. It does only take 2 seconds to power copy though and he should be able to do it while being TP'd.

That was the initial plan, for KO to fight off MMH in TP if necessary, while Amazo did his thing.

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#48 Edited by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: @sly_141But Despero isn't an unskilled brute when it comes to Telepathy? I don't know where that belief would come from. Also I can't recall an instant where TP skill has managed to deal with superior telepathic power.

It's like Superman losing Batman in a proper H2H fight because the latter is more skilled(Which would clearly not be the case).

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#49 Edited by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

The sooner we get votes on this the sooner we can move to the next round

1. @morleericks

Characters

  • HP Doomsday - 7
  • Midnighter - 1
  • Lucifer(Supernatural) 2
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Perks

  • Perfect Team Work 5
  • 1 hour prep 1 x 2
  • Magic Resistance, 8

2. @jloneblackheart

Characters

  • Stardust (5)
  • Super Perfect Cell (5)

Perks

  • Basic Knowledge (5)
  • Mind Resistance (6)
  • 4 Senzu Beans (Cell)
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3.@apex_pretador

Characters

  1. Golden Frieza 8
  2. Jean Grey 2
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Perks

  • 1 hour prep (1)
  • X men (1)
  • Adamantium - Freeza (2)
  • Nightcrawler's teleportation - Freeza (3)
  • Batman Martial Arts (Freeza) - (1)
  • Deadpool's healing Freeza (7)

4.@chimeroid

Characters

  • Cadiz Etrama Di Raizel - 3 points
  • Wiccan - 3 points
  • Etrigan - 4 points
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Perks:

  • 1 hour of prep = 1
  • Creation Blades (Etrigan) = 10
  • Invisibility (Etrigan) = 2
  • Invisibility (Cadiz Etrama Di Raizel) = 2

5.@deathhero61

Characters

  1. Beerus 10
  2. Emma Frost 2

Perks

  • Extra Character points 5 x2

6.@shirso

Team

  1. Rick Sanchez (5)
  2. Manchester Black (3)
  3. Sani (4)
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Perks

  1. 1 hrs prep anywhere (5)
  2. Basic knowledge (5)
  3. 2 extra character points (5)

7.@samconery

Characters

  1. Magus 7
  2. Adam Warlock 7
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Perks

  • One hour prep(1)
  • mind link(2)
  • invicible(magus)(2)
  • 2 more character points(5) x 2

8.@seagod

Characters

  • Vegito (9)
  • Aladdin (2)
  • Atom Eve 1
  • Jon Kent (1)
  • Gu Rong (1)
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Perks

  • 2 extra points x2 (10)
  • Batman Martial Arts-Vegito (1)
  • Spider sense (Vegito) 1
  • 1 hour prep 1
  • Mind Link (2)

9.@valor_175

Team

  • Rei Ogami (Code: Breaker) 7
  • Tsunayoshi 5
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Perks

  • Flight 1 (Rei)
  • Invisibility 2 (Rei)
  • 2 Extra Character points 5
  • Flight 1(Tsuna)
  • Invisibility 1(tsuna)
  • Mind Link 2

10.@ssj_god

Team

  • shaman x-man (7)
  • mirror master (2)
  • ben (ult big chill, toepick, gravattack, upgrade, NRG, kevin levin, gwen) 1
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Perks:

  • 5 hours of prep any where (10)
  • Night Crawler's Teleportation (3) (for kevin levin)
  • 500 Nazi Vampires(hellsing) (2)

11. @sirfizzwhizz

Characters

  • Ghost Rider Blaze (5)
  • Spawn 2nd Age (5)
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Perks

  • Perfect teamwork (5)
  • Full Knowledge(Complete knowledge on all feats) (8)
  • Hour of Prep (1)

12. @supremegeneration

Characters

  • Ultron (8)
  • Capt Cold (1)
  • Groot (1)
  • Sandman (1)
  • Pyslocke (1)

Perks:

  • Perfect Teamwork (5)
  • 2 Character Points (5)
  • 1 Hour of Prep Anywhere (5)

13.@asgardianbrony

TEAM

  • OF Thor (Jurgens/Stracjinski): 7 points
  • Krishna (Supergod): 3 points
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PERKS

  • 1 hour prep anywhere: 5 points
  • 1 hour prep X2: 2 points
  • Mental resistance: 6 points
  • Adamantium weapons (Krishna): 2 points

14. @revan2424

Team

  • Ultra-Humanite (6)
  • Silver Surfer (7)
  • Wither (1)
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Perks:

  1. 2 extra character points (5)
  2. 2 extra character points (5)
  3. Invisibility (Wither) (2)
  4. Nightcrawler's teleportation (Wither) (3)

15.@sly_141

Characters

  1. Spartan 7
  2. Professor X 2
  3. Mr terrific 1
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Perks

  • Creation blades 10
  • 1 hour prep anywhere 5

16.@beatboks1

Characters

  1. Arion 5 -
  2. Psycho pirate (4)
  3. Vil Drox II 1
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perks

  • Xmen 1
  • 100 movie ultron bots 2
  • 5hrs prep anywhere 10
  • Spider sense x2 for Psycho pirate and Dox 2

17.@queen_marceline

Characters

  1. Composite Zamasu(Pre Universe Merge) 9
  2. Composite Pug 1
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Perks

  • Mind resistance 6
  • Soul attack resistance 7
  • Spider sense(Pug) 1
  • Batman Martial art(Pug) 1
  • flight(pug) 1

18. @kamishini

Characters

  1. 666 Satan 8
  2. Escanor 2
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Perks

  • Lightspeed 7(Escanor)
  • Morals off 8

19.@jardinain2

Characters

  • The Maker 5
  • Genis vell 5
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Perks

  1. 1 week prep 15

20.@thetruebarryallen

Characters (12)

  • Black Alice (3)
  • Cyborg Superman w/Power Rings (7)
  • Cyborg (1)
  • Weather Wizard 1
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Perks (15)

  • Perfect Teamwork (5)
  • 2 More Character Points (5)
  • 1 Hour of Prep Anywhere (5) '

21.@animelegend68

Characters

  • Goku (8)
  • New 52 Superman (4)
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Perks:

  • 2 extra character points (5)
  • Morals off(8)
  • Invisibility(Goku)(2)

22.@heirtothekingdom

Characters - 10

  • Spectrum (4)
  • Sersi (6)
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Perks - 15

  • 1 hour of prep (1)
  • Mind Resistance (6)
  • Full Knowledge - Complete knowledge on all feats (8)

Reserves

@major_hellstorm

Characters

  • Psyphon (1)
  • Absorbing Man (4)
  • Merlin (1)
  • Quasar (6)
  • Kid Omega (2)
  • Atom Eve (1)

Perks

  • Extra Character points x3 (15)

@emperorthanos

Characters

  1. Midora 8
  2. Pre 52 Martian Manhunter 6

Perks

  • Extra character points 5 X2
  • Perfect teamwork 5
Moderator
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#50 Posted by Sly_141 (3216 posts) - - Show Bio