2017 High Tier PYP 2nd Edition RD1: Queen_Marceline vs Deathhero(Voting Open)

To make a long story short, Beerus is a GoD, an actual god that goes around destroying planets in order to balance out the universe. He first appeared in Dragon Ball: Battle of The Gods, seeking a warrior of phenomenal abilities, then found himself on the planet earth, where a group of saiyans live. Little did he know how much of an influence that planet would have on his everyday life and his overall existence. When he first landed, one thing led to another and after smacking around the universe's greatest fighters, he finally got his wish, but still only showed a minimal amount of his own power. He has yet to fully exert his own power, Gbut to give you an idea, a single GoD can threaten or outright destroy a universe at full power, this is why its specifically forbidden for two of them to fight otherwise the entire universe would be in danger, I'll provide examples of this later during the debate.

Beerus being one of the most powerful Dragon Ball characters in the series, has a large pool of abilities, he has the most versatility, he has the most raw power and ability than everyone in his universe(by universe I mean Universe 7) and can honestly crush virtually anyone who isn't listed at a similar point value as him(9 or 10 pointers, with Fused Zamasu being an exception if I am being honest)

His abilities are as followed

• Super Strength(Can smash planets in half with his fingers, can destroy nearby planets and planetoids with the shockwaves of his punches, and can one shot other planet busters such as SSJ3 Goku, Fat Buu, Piccolo, Gohan and Vegeta)
• Super Speed(Can fly from his house, which is located in a nebula in the middle of nowhere, to an extremely distant planet, beating Whis who was lazily using his staff to get there in approximately 3 minutes, whereas Beerus got there in 2 minutes while using his own speed)
• Super Durability(can sit in a planet busting explosion unharmed while scratching his nose as if nothing happened, can tank attacks from several high-tiers in the verse such as Goku and Vegeta, characters who would be able to one shot Frieza who has survived a planetary explosion while half-dead and severely injured, Fat Buu, Android 18, the former one shotting someone on par with Perfect Cell, and the latter one-shotting a Super Saiyan that managed to kill Frieza effortlessly and many other combatants, and he can tank hits from his brother Champa who is capable of casually destroying planets with his strikes, partially by accident.)
• Super Senses(something pretty much any decent DB character has, I can elaborate when necessary)
• Flight
• Telepathy(has minor feats of using this offensively)
• Telekinesis
• Transformation
• Ki Manipulation(Can destroy entire planets with his energy projection, which is a given considering he's a Dragon Ball character)
• Energy Nullification(Nullified energy attacks from Goku who can bust planets)
• Cloning
• Expert Martial artist.(He was trained by Universe 7's greatest Martial Artist, who happens to be the Angel Whis.)

Illyana Rasputin is the mutant sister of Colossus and because of the loss of part of her soul she is also the demonic Darkchilde ruler of Limbo. After the AvX event her powers now can draw energy directly from Limbo, but it also has caused damage to the dimension. Emma Frost describes her as "Carrying around an entire dimension of semi-demonic energy inside of her"

Pokedex Entry:

Darkrai, the Pitch-Black Pokémon. Legend has it that on a moonless night, Darkrai will lure people to sleep and unleash nightmares upon them.

Darkrai is the Dark Type, Legendary/Rare Pokemon, that has a large variety of moves, it can create illusions, merge and hide within shadows and even shroud an entire area in darkness. He's not much, and doesn't seem to be able to do much this round because of your perks, but he can serve as a decent distraction, and I may be able to make use of him in my strategy.

Darkrai is half recon, half heavy hitter(at least within his tier) in a high-tier tourney like this, he's mostly a support type combatant.

• Intangibility
• Teleportation
• Shadow manipulation
• Dream manipulation
• Sleep manipulation
• Flight
• Shield creation
• Telepathy
• Hypnosis

There's isn't much to this, we'll prep in Limbo where Magik has access to a large pool of resources, and has some unique tricks she can only do in Limbo to my knowledge, such as seeing many different futures, or researching and peeping on certain individuals. Doing this will give us a general idea on how the battle will go down and will allow my team to adapt accordingly. (meaning having knowledge on Fused Zamasu's level of power would be more than enough to kick Beerus into gear to go all out)

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The 1 hour of prep gives us time to get to know each other and decide on a plan. To start off, as soon as the battle starts(thanks to prep and Scrying we know your exact position and know how things will go down from there) Darkrai will be teleported by Magik far away from where Fused Zamasu will be and will be busy setting up a dark void, this void of darkness was enough to swallow Diagla and Palkia the pokemon of time and space. Dark Void can also double as a barrier of sorts to protect him from attacks or to swallow up attacks.

To give you an idea, this is literally a void of darkness which forces you into a deep slumber while simultaneously showing you illusions to torment your mind.

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I'm not sure if Sleep Inducement falls under the category of TP or a mental attack, but either way Darkrai more of a distraction if anything. The dark void will be setup immediately, and Magik will teleport Zamasu into the giant dark void, leaving him in a cloak of darkness, right then and there, Magik will immediately open up several portals where Beerus is located so he can coordinate his attacks all at once

Once Magik opens all those portals, all Beerus needs to do is simply spam planetary attacks and end the battle, to give you an idea, Goku was struggling to blast away this very volley of attacks with a fully charged Kamehameha(should be marked around 11:06) Although Fused Zamasu is more powerful than SSG, the gap between SSG and SSB isn't that big.

Zamasu won't get the chance to abuse his versatility, nor his unique techniques, he won't get the chance to fight back, and he won't get the chance to even pose a threat to Beerus(not that he would anyway. The thing thats making me hesitate in taking you on is that I can only wonder what you have up your sleeve. My prep is relatively simple, and its mostly just using the time to get to know each other and coordinate a line of attack, considering Magik's variety of feats, there were other options, such as gathering certain materials or items for Beerus or Darkrai to make use of like Sensu beans, or maybe similar objects. Even if this was simply beerus vs Zamasu, I still wouldn't know what you'd have up your sleeves because Beerus is practically the god)

I could probably think of other potential strategies, but this is a start.

You're outnumbered three to one, unless your Pug has some crazy abilities I never even thought of, then reasonably speaking your team has no way of winning Beerus is canonically stronger than Zamasu, so I honestly don't know what you're thinking with challenging me, Magik can make this team perfectly coordinated, can telefrag Zamasu's head off, and further support the team, Darkrai is a decent distraction and if Sleep Inducement gets the pass that should be an instant KO to Zamasu unless I am missing some special resistances.

Again, I said this many times within the same post, but I don't really get what you have up your sleeves, but Zamasu canonically is weaker than Beerus, so I don't see how you're winning or making a convincing argument.

And to get a solid idea on the power difference he was severely holding back against SSG Goku, who by scaling is a degree weaker than SSB level characters which were giving Fused Zamasu some trouble. Later down the line, Goku made use of some mastered state which allowed him to catch up to Zamasu in power.

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Durability: When Vegeta mastered this power, he couldn't put a dent in Beerus.

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I'm not sure why you are so confident, and maybe I am missing some context regarding Zamasu's level of power, but no matter how close Zamasu may be, he shouldn't be capable of beating Beerus if Goku and Vegeta aren't capable of doing so currently. I also want to add that Fused Zamasu, at least based off the anime, isn't a transformation that can last. If he stays in his fused state for a long period of time, his fusion becomes unstable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoyAsv6iY4M

They weren't a threat to him, at all. The only reason the "fight" even went on was because Zamasu wanted to torture them instead of killing them:

To give a better idea of how they relate, he literally sends Trunks flying away BY STARING IN HIS DIRECTION:

Using composite feats is good and all, but the original and strict canon,(the anime) they were still a decent threat, to add, although I don't recall them doing this in the manga, but Zamasu couldn't even control the power he was utilizing fully.(At the end of the link below or simply refer to the link I posted in my opener) Most of the fight they managed to push through(although they were struggling to do so even nearly making some sacrifices and almost dying) The fight was solid and wasn't completely one sided.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ubr1tirTg

And like I showed before, their mastered forms in the manga was capable of giving Zamasu a 100 percent solid fight. And Beerus treated Vegeta's Master SSB like it was fodder. The power difference between Beerus and Zamasu is notable....

In fact, the only time Zamasu's power was legitimately challenged was when Vegito entered the scene. And even then, his power was directly compared to Beerus' and even backed up by a previous statement from Whis(when he said that if Goku and Vegeta worked together, they might be able to take on Beerus)

And even in the manga(where he was a mary sue compared to his anime counterpart mind you) that was a one sided fight, just like how this fight is going to go down. Whis specifically said might, and that's saying a lot considering how badly Zamasu was getting beat by Vegito.

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Cool. However, you can't run from Zamasu. Very much like Janemba, Zamasu can use portals to directly attack his opponents.

What's this mean? At any time in the fight, he can reach through a portal and cut their heads off with his signature energy blade:

We'll have knowledge on that, the huge difference in that fight is that everyone was within sight. Darkrai and Magik could be on the other side of the planet, for all he knows getting our plan of attack ready. Heck, we wouldn't even need all that, if we wanted to we could set up this very plan at a way farther distance where you can't even attack us to begin with. Heck we don't even need Darkrai, I only had one point so I just bought him, we could literally just have Magik immediately telefrag you with her portals, then immediately follow up with several planetary blasts aimed directly at you at angles that you cannot dodge.

Cool. Three things though;

• Zamasu is a being who can teleport, open portals himself, and can quite literally travel to different universes. There is not a single thing stopping him from going back to where he was.
• Even if it were to go through, Zamasu's immortality would make the attack pointless.
• Zamasu can actually open up a portal and pull your team into the blast with him. Great job Beerus, destroying your team. :T

So Zamasu is going to react to suddenly being teleported into a dark void where he shouldn't be able to see anything or much in general, then several planetary attacks that he would require at least a charged move to counter(which he won't have time to do) and specifically bring out his portals to counter such an assault?

Also to address context, I do not recall Zamasu ever traveling to different universes, I only remember that happening once in the anime, when Goku Black first appeared in front of Goku and friends. And that was with the time ring. Correct me If I am wrong though.

I don't see how? His immortality clearly has its limitations. No Regen except Majinn Buu's has ever shown to regenerate from anything and even Majin Buu has shown limits. Regeneration in Dragon Ball has shown to have its limits. Zamasu at the very least should be capable of getting "KO" so to speak. For example Buuhan was already insanely powerful on top of having the best regen in the series by far before Zamasu. And no character with Regen in the series survived disintegration. For example, Fat Buu has the same type of regen as Kid Buu, just not as powerful but it was physically taxed, and it took energy to regenerate. He even had to be healed by Dende despite his own personal healing factor. If the power difference is large enough his healing factor can be taxed.

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The same thing happened with Cell and he can regenerate from a cell. Zamasu's healing factor doesn't seem that much better than Buu's tbh. In fact when Goku finally started to catch up and even surpass his power Zamasu's healing factor was being taxed as well, and eventually, Goku slowly but surely was breaking him down.

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His regen is clearly linked to his stamina, similar to Cell and Buu.

'In the anime version due to constantly using his fusion power(Which has a time limit) his power went completely unstable and was a volatile factor in his fight against the Saiyans. He had a hard time regenerating and maintaining his power. Even if brute force doesn't work, Magik's Soul Sword should do wonders.

Magik also has access to her Soul Sword which can cancel out the regen and bypass the natural durability of magic based characters or divine deities or hell lords and etc. etc. Pretty much anyone who is magic based will suffer the consequences of this sword. Its extremely lethal to anyone based in magic. It wouldn't take much for Magik to simply teleport a portal directly behind him and stab him with it. Zamasu is based on magic for sure and is also a Kai and even went above an beyond and became a sort of god. Plus he has powers based in magic anyhow. So the Soul Sword would be effective. It's like the magic world's the creation blades except not as potent.

The Soul Sword has successfully been used to destroy an entity known for devouring entire dimensions:

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Just in case it seems I am aiming to high, lets step it down a notch, an inferior bootleg Soul Sword was used to kill the immortal Bellasco.

"And she'd never tag Zamasu anyway" Zamasu will obviously be distracted by Beerus until an opening presents itself for Magik. Its a good thing we can see the future and have a good idea on how powerful you are huh?

As for pulling teammates into the blast, he'd have to detect them first. And I highly doubt Zamasu's ki sensing is that good anyway, considering on several occasions throughout the entire arc Trunks managed to ghost himself and others away from Zamasu fairly easy. Magik has advanced invisibility spells way better than simply masking your presence with technique in DB which isn't the same thing as raw invisibility.

Considering characters in DB are skilled enough to hide their presence to a fair enough degree where its hard to find them, and also taking into consideration that Magik has managed to evade the radar of Emma Frost, I doubt Zamasu with virtually no sensing feats would be able to find her and Darkrai. So the only person you would be sensing is Beerus. Also what's the range of Zamasu's portals???

Zamasu won't get the chance? So far, you've only been trying to put him down on a physical level... which we've already established is folly. He's also immune to any mental attacks as well as attacks that harm the soul(meaning Beerus' hakai can't even be used.. which is probably the only legitimate way to put Zamasu down accessible to him).

Hakai isn't a soul based move(at least I don't think it is), even then I'm not really allowed to use it. Plus like literally every other character before Zamasu with Regen, he has limitations. If he could be destroyed by Zeno, regardless of how much of a different level he is on, that simply proves my point that he has limitations otherwise he would have regenerated and came back. Either he dies permanently like every other character with Regen has, or he gets "KOd"

If anything, getting blasted pieces makes it even WORSE for you, as he can literally come back as an army of himself;

Beerus shouldn't be that much more powerful than Zamasu. And even then, he doesn't have a way to permanently keep him down; Zamasu WILL tire him out eventually. After that, all he needs is one good slice to end it.

Not really? Just means Beerus can kill all of them at once, especially since you are limited to only ten clones and 200 summons..... and Clones and Summons are two different things. That being said, if you stop at 10 clones, you have literally no proof, that Zamasu would come back after being disintegrated.

Shouldn't be that much powerful? Except that he is. I proved as much in my opener. Goku's mastered SSB at full power was enough to equal and even surpass Fused Zamasu, SSB Vegito who was directly compared to Beerus fodderized Fused Zamsu. Mastered SSB Vegeta couldn't even scratch beerus. All signs point to Fused Zamasu not being able to defeat Beerus unless he has some type of hax to bypass his level of power which he doesn't.....if you made use of your character points and maybe even get extra character points you could have got someone asides from a useless Pug, that compliments Zamasu's power set and maybe bring some hax to the table, and maybe said hax would have been enough to help defeat Beerus if used well enough. Beerus is basically the equivalent of Saitama in DBS, he has yet to show an upper limit. The only reason Goku and Vegeta tired out so much is because Super Saiyan transformations take up a shit ton of stamina regardless of level.(Which is why mastered SSB now exists lol)

• Your entire plan doesn't even work to begin with if it were to go through at all.
• Your plan endangers your team more than it does Zamasu, as he can drag them to him via portals forcing them to take the hit with him.
• No one on your team, outside of Beerus, is fast enough/durable enough to stop Zamasu from opening a portal and cutting their heads off.(You know, if Beerus doesn't end up destroying your team for the reason above).
• Blasting him to bits just forces you to deal with an entire army of Zamasu. This plan really isn't looking good for you, what were you thinking? lol

1. Your entire plan literally(no misinterpretation, no BS) hinges on Zamasu's immortality......no special backdrop or particular plan. Just throw a healing factor at your problems and hope it works. Beerus has never even pushed himself to his upmost limit. In fact, 10 Zamasu's would be no different from 10 individual Goku's. What's stopping Beerus from simply killing them all? Its not like they would further split into more Zamasu's because there's a limit on clones....

2. You would have to track down my team first, plus we know different possible ways as how this fight goes down....the rest of my team are pretty much chilling. And you have to prove Zamasu would survive the ambush let alone react to it when SSB Goku based off direct showings wouldn't be able to react to Beerus moving at his best speeds....

3. Doesn't really matter. Literally none of Zamasu's options will work. He has no plan, he's a cocky turd who thinks he's above everyone except Zeno, his energy projection could literally be sent back at him by Magik via portals, Beerus could nullify any energy attack thrown at him, or even redirect it.

I mean if you really think about it, what's your plan on beating Beerus asides from somehow tiring him out when he has never shown his limits? I mean I would understand if this was thanos, or some other 9 pointer, but Zamasu, Goku and Vegeta are Canonically far below Beerus, and even if they were in his ballpark, he has ways of easily defeating them. I personally believe Fused Zamasu is a 9 only because of his versatility, similiar to how Composite Buu is a 7 due to his versatility. He honestly isn't that much stronger than Goku and Vegeta in the anime, and Goku and Vegeta reached a level where they could match him in the manga. (Zamasu was only doing so well because he could continue regenerating while Goku and Vegeta couldn't. Meaning healing nasty wounds was never a problem unlike Goku and Vegeta who relied on sensu beans which they eventually ran out of)

4. Umm? What do you mean? Ants are Ants....if one ant couldn't beat me, do you really think adding 20 or 30 more would make a difference? Numbers mean nothing in Dragon Ball, that's just how its written.(Nappa, bodied Piccolo, Krillin, Gohan and others. Frieza bodied Krillin, Piccolo, Gohan and Vegeta, the Androids bodied All the Z-Fighters save Goku, Cell is self-explanatory considering the hilariousness of Cell Jrs. Beerus? Every relevant fighter on earth at the time fought and lost to Beerus.)

It would have mattered if Beerus and Zamasu were actually on the same level or at least close enough(like Goku and Cell close) but they aren't. What were you thinking? Cloning is limited to ten, and using two mid-tiers with hax along with a character that is canonically superior to yours in the same series. From an objective point of view you literally cannot win. The army won't keep multiplying anyway...that will just leave only one set number of targets to deal with.....if you challenged anyone else, you honest to god may have actually won.

A decent threat? They still had no way of putting him down. The only thing that can be said is they were able to stall the inevitable. In addition, the anime's scaling is crazy ridiculous; for example Trunks randomly getting strong enough to 1v1 Fused Zamasu just because he got mad.

The fact that you even mention they were struggling and making serious gambles with their lives just to do that is a testament in itself. The fact is they entered a losing fight and were forced to retreat EVERY TIME.

Literally every saiyan including black continuously gained powerups throughout the arc whether it was through BS or training. I don't see your point.

They were forced to retreat just when dealing with Goku Black and Immortal Zamasu, then eventually bopped the hell out of them. Fused Zamasu was a one and done deal. And Fused Zamasu's power was extremely unstable for various reasons, and constantly fluctuated. If we go strictly by the anime alone, you have literally no case.

This fight doesn't seem that one sided to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqdon7ffc5U

At the beginning of the fight he had the upper hand by a good deal, but his power heavily fluctuated the longer the fight continued, and that allowed Goku and Vegeta to keep up. Even in the manga, his power was unstable enough to continuously change, whether it was due to physical limitations or his mental state.

Sure. Completely mastered they were able to gain an equal(roughly) power for a short period of time. But you're missing a few details in the comparison;

• Firstly, the Beerus vs Vegeta fight itself. Sure, Beerus wasn't using his full power when they were fighting. But then, you'd have to ask to what extent of it he was really using. We've seen him using a good chunk of his power and enjoying the fights on weaker forms prior to this.(A classic example when Goku starts fighting Beerus while Goku is still in his base or the first fight they had where Beerus used a good portion of his power.). So he'd still have to use a good bit of his power, more than you're making it seem.
• Beerus himself even acknowledges Vegeta's power by saying he'd make a candidate for God of Destruction in a different universe, implying that Vegeta has reached the level of a God of Destruction. Just not quite enough to go all out with himself.

People are seriously looking to deep into the scaling or the fights in DBS, as it stands now, Goku and Vegeta are complete fodder to Beerus(Akira stated several times, that Goku and Vegeta nowhere close to Beerus, and that they wouldn't stand a chance.) you bringing up other out of context or hyped up scenes doesn't change how this fight went down, Beerus treated him like trash. The gap between Beerus and Vegeta/Goku is clear as day, and with the MSSB Goku and Vegeta are equal or above Fused Zamasu, Vegito who is compared to Beerus fodderized Fused Zamasu,

And its clear the GoDs vary from each other in power. Also Beerus' acknowledgement sounds more like a backhanded compliment considering he easily beat him and then says the equivalent "maybe in a different universe, you'd be a solid candidate for God of Destruction"

Goku fought Current Piccolo and Gohan in his base form, his base form is legit a horrible measuring stick for levels of power in the verse. Since Goku is seen fighting LITERALLY EVERYONE in his base form, even Majinn Buu who received some form of amp from his training....you need a more solid basis then vague statements and extremely faulty scaling. Krillin himself was fighting Base Goku...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75Yul92XOE0

People have been recently looking too much into Goku and Vegeta's current level and trying so hard to compare it to Beerus when they are clearly not in same ballpark yet.

So yes, an all out Beerus CAN overpower a MSSJB like Vegeta which would scale to him having more outright power than Zamasu. However, it's not as much as you're trying to make it seem.

Another flaw in your comparison is the fighters themselves. As I've shown, Zamasu has a great amount of versatility in his techniques and would have a larger pool of options to counter Beerus than Vegeta(who is primarily a H2H combatant).

Gods of Destructions are basically the Saitama of the Dragon Ball Universe, they have yet to show their upper limit, and have yet to be truly pressured when actually trying. In his sparring match with MSSJB Vegeta, Whis(his master who knows his strengths and weaknesses and is far stronger than him) and another bystander specifically state Beerus was playing with Vegeta.

Wait I don't exactly understand what you mean, what techniques does he have to counter Beerus? Vegeta couldn't even hurt Beerus, what can Zamasu do? Most of his techniques are energy based, meaning they get nullified immediately.... considering his energy techniques are mostly ranged, he doesn't seem to have much to use.

First, we DO start in sight of each other. It was stated by ET in another post when someone asked(I don't remember the exact match, but you can ask @emperorthanos himself). So yes, Zamasu CAN still ragdoll them by staring at them or cutting their head off via portal.

I have prep and thanks to Magik I have knowledge on how this fight goes down and at the very least your entire arsenal. And I confirmed with ET, if I have prep starting positions don't matter. So my team doesn't have to even be in range of yours let alone within your sight. That being said, if we aren't within your sight, you won't be able to retaliate against this strategy

....... are.... are you serious? What point of teleportation and portals do you not understand? Where you are doesn't change that he can still reach you quite easily, even if you were far away.

When has Zamasu showcased teleportation? In DBS it was stated only Supreme Kai know teleportation and Zamasu never completed his training. And he has no feats suggesting his portals can reach the other side of a planet, for example. Also lets say I am forced to be within your sight according to rules, how are you going to see Darkrai and Magik who will be invisible? Beerus will also be distracting him as well. Even if he could, Magik could jam his ability to teleport. Here's some examples below. Most notably is the last scan where Strange is forced to use his astral form since he cannot teleport to Magik's location thanks to her.

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Except Zamasu is still faster and can ragdoll her by staring at her as previously mentioned. Once more, can cut her head off. And to finish the point you still don't get; I'm immortal. Telefragging just makes more Zamasu clones.

HE. WONT. SEE. HER. Zamasu won't even know where Darkrai and Magik are positioned. Regarding telefragging, the strategy would be to simply do what Trunks did to Frieza, cut him up, and vaporize him not leaving a trace(this is the same exact approach Gotenks and Piccolo went for when they were fighting Super Buu). Nobody not even Buu has feats of regenerating from complete disintegration. Trunks was at a level where he could vaporize Frieza. Nobody in the Buu Saga could completely vaporize Buu, except Goku's spirt bomb. Vegeta and Goku never completely vaporized Zamasu. But there's no reason why Beerus couldn't.

So, now you're argument is that because it's dark Zamasu can no longer open a portal to/or teleport back to the plane he already was? I... what? Also, there's no BFR allowed as per rules(just noticed). So... you can't even teleport me for that plan at all as it is BFR. Don't worry, it didn't matter anyway.

You're lack of ability to read truly scares me. Here's exactly what I said "So Zamasu is going to react to suddenly being teleported into a dark void where he shouldn't be able to see anything or much in general, then several planetary attacks that he would require at least a charged move to counter(which he won't have time to do) and specifically bring out his portals to counter such an assault?" Its an ambush. He won't immediately use his portals upon reflex when he doesn't even know what the hell is going on.... And yes I can teleport you, BFR is completely teleporting you away from the battlefield. Hence the term "battlefield removal" The Dark Void that Darkrai is creating is more like a bubble its not like its in a separate limbo or dimension or some stupid shit like that....its simply a giant dark void, cloaked in darkness. Its nothing complicated.... Zamasu gets teleported into a dark void he cannot see( a bubble the Time and Space Pokemon couldn't even escape from) As soon as he gets trapped in said bubble, he's instantly bombard by several attacks from Beerus, courtesy of Magik's portals.....simple.

Zamasu went through and killed all the other gods from other universes(I even missed this until it was pointed out to me in a thread some time ago. Zamasu apparently did more than I gave him credit for.). The fact that he did already shows he can. Even further, we've seen Kaioshin more than capable of traveling between universes themselves.

If that's the case, why couldn't he travel to Goku's world? Why did he neglect to use the technique several times to follow Goku whenever he tried to escape? He never used it in combat whatsoever, and why the hell would he use portals to grab people in the manga when he could have just teleported himself away from Goku's Hakai assault? Honestly, even if you are right regarding him having the ability, he never used it on screen so its kind of pointless to say he would use it here.

Zamasu's regeneration/immortality really doesn't have a limitation that Beerus can overcome. Comparing it to Buu or Cell is a bad idea, as we've seen them lose power and keep damage done to them after a certain extent. This isn't the case with Zamasu, he's always come back fully restored without damage.

Kid Buu regenerated from a multi-planet busting explosion with no damage, and asides from Zamasu, he's another character who's shown to have an almost unstoppable regen.(Even regenerating from smoke once. Buu out of all the characters with Regen has showcased the strongest and fastest Regen) Zamasu died when someone beyond his capabilities blasted him to dust. Sounds familiar? That sounds eerily similar to the exact formula of DB characters with Regen.....Gohan killed Cell who can literally regen from a a single cell, Goku via Spirit Bomb killed Kid Buu(and by his own admission would have easily killed Fat Buu/Kid Buu if he could access the same power of SSJ3 that he had when he was dead.) And Vegito was about to finish off Zamasu until he unfused. I think its perfectly reasonable based off the formula of Dragon Ball Z for Beerus who is above Zamasu to overwhelm and eventually kill him. OR AT LEAST KO him.

We've seen throughout the fight that every time Zamasu was restored, he came back with full stamina as well. In addition, even when taken to the, for lack of a better word, "breaking point" he just fused with the timeline itself. Even more, he was even beginning to spread to other timelines:

He was still killed, which resulted in him reaching his "breaking point". So that doesn't really negate anything I said.

Showing the scan of Zamasu "losing control" is a misrepresentation on your part. Vegeta was referring to Zamasu being blinded by his rage and wasn't reigning in his energy properly.

He wasn't bothering with the maintenance to contain that power. It has nothing to do with his regeneration, and it's silly to think it would be considering the feat above.

Okay, that implies that his regeneration depends soley on him, similar to Buu and Cell in the first place. So him recovering with no injury still doesn't prove anything. He was actually trying to regenerate during his fight with MSSB like I showed earlier, and it didn't seem at that exact moment his ability to regenerate was clouded by his emotions. And even if that's true, Zamasu is a prideful psychopath who cannot properly control his power..... you have an extremely unstable character.....and he's unstable thanks to Fusion.....

And if you're right, then he probably won't do so here -.- this is a guy who thinks he's above the gods, and even the Gods of Destruction. Getting physically beat down by Beerus and co would easily strain his ego, especially considering he considers himself above the gods.

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The fact is, nothing short of erasing the entire timeline will put him down. Also, Beerus even mentions that he can't kill gods...

That's kind of a contradiction. Also, how do you know what Zeno did wasn't overkill? What Zeno did was the equivalent of shooting an insect with a rocket launcher. You have no idea, what his limitations are, so it might as well be a NLF, you cannot properly determine how strong his regenerative factor is, and what it would take to AT LEAST severely limit it. I wanna also add that his immortality has no feats that compare to other characters with comparable survivability such as Buu. For example, after Gotenks attempted to vaporize Majinn Buu with his Ghost Kamikaze Attack, Piccolo and Gotenks were cleaning up and vaporizing the pieces of him that was left. Buu regenerated from Ash and Smoke, as long as there are bits of him left, no matter how small, he'll regenerate.

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Yet Buu was vaporized completely by the Spirit Bomb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux3mwdvmfA0

Same went for Zamasu(he hit his "breaking point" right then and there. That's literally all he needs to at least take him out unless you are using Zamasu Post Merge with the Universe)

https://youtu.be/3y7Nph4pK08

Zamasu.... magic? No, he's not. What part of him is magical? All his powers can be displayed as energy manipulation, matter manip., TK, temporal manip., ect... nothing he does is based on magic.

A "God" in Dragonball is just a title, and the kai are just another race with different power functionality. In one of the aforementioned scans, Beerus even says Vegeta could gain that title... would that make him any more divine? No.

Also, the name "Soul Sword" sounds awfully suspicious..... what exactly does it harm? o;

I wouldn't say so. But fair enough, I won't argue semantics on magic in the DB universe, especially since its barely touched upon since the Buu Saga.

Although I will concede on Magic,(getting into that would be silly) I won't concede on Zamasu being a form of Deity or Divine being.(especially after stealing Goku's body and eventually fusing with him, way after the time he gained Godly Ki as well) He has Godly Ki, and it wouldn't be far fetched at all to consider him as such, especially when he got to the point of merging with the universe itself, and was slowly becoming omniscient and all powerful. God Ki is completely different from regular Ki, a GoD's Ki having special properties to destroy almost anything, having techniques that can destroy intangible beings such as ghosts, and so on and so forth. Gods are Gods in Dragon Ball, we don't even know the recruitment process of a God of Destruction, clearly there's more to it than simply being powerful enough considering the specific traits and abilities of GoDs. There are also the Supreme Kais who are Gods of Creation. Watching over planets, creating life forms and the like. Gods in Dragon Ball may not be as over the top as the gods and magic based beings in Marvel and DC, but they fit the bill, that being said, the Soulsword can either make Zamasu vulnerable or maybe even oneshot him

Here she kills the "World Eater". It's basically magical Galactus. Responsible for devouring tons of dimensions and in one possible future it even destroys Earth along with all of it's heroes.

With her SS, she kills the "World Eater" a powerful force responsible for the destruction and consumption of several dimensions, and in alternate timeline or possible future, destroys the Earth.

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To my knowledge the Soulsword is not that much different from something like The Creation Blades. It doesn't attack the soul from what I know. If you can prove me otherwise, that's fine, your strategy still hinges on Zamasu's survivability, and Beerus' stamina and endurance, but considering the difference in power, and the minor support, he'd barely have to try.

Already talked about power above as well as the fact you still can't kill him.

Don't really need to, Zamasu in both the manga and the anime is both mentally and physically unstable. He will destroy himself in time. He can't even control his power properly without randomly getting a power boost he can't control or losing power or stability due to his physical makeup.

The fact Zamasu was able to fuse with the universe shows he's not bound by physical form for the clause of his immortality.

Didn't stop his power from constantly fluctuating, and eventually getting killed by Trunks' spirit sword, which led to said idiotic event. That being said, after Trunks killed Zamasu with the Spirit Sword he was out of commission for quite a while before starting to merge with the universe. An incap is all we really need....

Fodderized fused Zamasu? Looked like it was pretty back and forth here:

By your evaluation of what's a fair fight, SSJ2 Vegeta is SSB tier just because he got a few hits in on Beerus who immediately fodderized him right after. Vegito was far beyond what Zamasu was capable of. Plus that specific version of Zamasu was extremely inconsistent with his power, like I said he couldn't control his power and he was fluctuating. If even Trunks can dodge his attacks and counter and parry them too, then his level of power doesn't seem all that credible. Also you are using two different versions of Zamasu at once, so you have to accept all their flaws and inconsistencies or lower showings, such as getting completely bodied by Vegito in the Manga, which I already showed, but I'll post it again for the voters.

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And once more, since you have no way to keep Zamasu down, Beerus will tire out. Zamasu wins the war of attrition.

......this is about as rational as Deadpool beating The Thing for the same reasons. The biggest difference between Goku and Vegeta who Zamasu barely beat through a somewhat similar strategy, is that all Super Saiyan transformations take up a significant amount of stamina. I will be copying and pasting some scans gathered up by @lvenger in his Goku vs Superman CAV. All credit to this analysis goes to him

This is something I brought up in my CAV with Pope. Goku's concentrated ki attacks and Super Saiyan transformations may increase his power and damage output, but I've found they are extremely taxing on Goku's body and ki supply. Before Goku could go Super Saiyan, he had to rely on the Kaio Ken to increase his power in battle and King Kai told Goku to never use above Kaio Ken times two as the toll on his body might be too great. After using the Kaio Ken times 3 on Vegeta, Goku thought he would be the first to give in. And after the Kaio Ken times four, Goku was in immense pain, struggling to breath and had reached his limit (read right to left)

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You might say the Super Saiyan transformation was less taxing on the body, but that wouldn't be true. Goku going Super Saiyan during the fight with Android 19 made the heart virus he was suffering from stronger for instance.

Furthermore, after Goku used his Kamehameha on Cell, that significantly decreased his ki and he was struggling to catch his breath afterwards. Cell noted Goku had lost a lot of strength and even allowed him the chance to eat a senzu bean so he could get back to full power.

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This was also indicated in the Super manga during Goku's fight with Hit where Vados states Goku was using up a lot of stamina to keep up with Hit's time skip and that would cause him to deplete his stamina first.

But most importantly, this is about the rule you wanted for this debate for Goku to start off in Super Saiyan 3 straight away. Super Saiyan 3 is Goku's best chance of beating Superman but it also makes him incredibly vulnerable as you already know. Compared to the Kaio Ken and regular Super Saiyan form, SSJ3 is a massive drain on Goku's body since it requires an incredible amount of ki to maintain. After SSJ3 Goku fought Kid Buu, Vegeta switched with Goku to give him time to charge up for a minute his ki and use a powerful attack to destroy Buu. However, Goku spent well over 5 minutes charging his ki yet his body eventually started to lose ki/chi and reverted back to his base form.

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As Goku states in the last scan, Super Saiyan 3 takes too much chi to use whilst alive. Which means if Goku overtaxes himself in that form, he'll start to lose power and drain himself dry of ki. Hell, Goku needed a wish from Porunga to bring him back to full strength so he could use the Spirit Bomb on Kid Buu properly since Buu repelled the Spirit Bomb in Goku's drained state.

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Why bring this up? By the time Goku and Vegeta finally relied on Zeno, they were dead tired and had ran out of power.

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Beerus in his first appearance, spent time fighting all of the Z-Fighters,(including Gohan, SSJ Gotenks Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta, etc.) Buu, and SSG Goku, and effectively treated all of them like fodder and barely broke a sweat. His stamina and endurance is clearly on another level compared to Goku's and Vegeta's.

To be honest I haven't even gone to the fullest extent on what Magik could do to help, she could create an army of 200 demons that could be a fair distraction, could cloak the entire team with an invisibility spell that allowed them to ghost a group of combatants who had decent enough tracking skills to locate Magik and Company on a specific planet and go there,(cosmic awareness) could use her time to prep in limbo to get information about Beerus' world from his own mouth on the options his universe has to beat or stop Zamasu such as sealing, whether its the Mafuba which almost worked on Immortal Zamasu(the talisman which is needed to complete the ritual was missing), or the supposed option himself and Whis and Beerus had to take care of Zamasu. Considering the large pool of resources we can gather thanks to Limbo, we could probably even gain access to Sensu Beans or the like to maintain stamina.(which would mean your strategy to outlast my team would be for naught)

But that's not necessary. Zamasu is weaker than Beerus by a solid degree, his power is inconsistent and not completely under his control for better or worse. My team has a semblance of a strategy and has a large amount of potential. I said it many times already, but you are simply relying on immortality and hoping for the best.

Edit: Screw it, I couldn't find the scans I'm looking for and I'm impatient, I'm just going to close the post here.