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#501 Posted by PunyParker (15717 posts) - - Show Bio

I will refer to Batman, because that's the only part that concerns me.

He kills people.
A lot of people.
This was garbage.

Overall the portrayal was excellent, Affleck is great.

But Batman kills people.......Batman has one goddamn rule, Snyder.....ONE.

Bullsh$t.

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#502 Posted by worldFlash (253 posts) - - Show Bio

@zwm210: If the Batman used guns in the movie then that was simply Snyders interpretation of a old Batman that has grown tired. He may of thought that this Batman was tired of seeing his actions, with non lethal force, not solving anything and thus started using them. I don't know, I haven't seen the movie yet. My campus doesn't have a movie theater near it! :'(

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#503 Edited by majinn3 (106 posts) - - Show Bio
@Elbarto17 said:

I will refer to Batman, because that's the only part that concerns me.

He kills people.

A lot of people.

This was garbage.

Overall the portrayal was excellent, Affleck is great.

But Batman kills people.......Batman has one goddamn rule, Snyder.....ONE.

Bullsh$t.

Well in Snyder's Defense:

1. Batman has killed multiple times in his earliest comics (hell he was packing a gun in those days). The whole "no killing" thing came later partially due to the "comics code".

2. Virtually every other movie incarnation of Batman has killed at least 1 person. Bale killed all of his major villains except the Joker and the scarecrow, plus a shitload of thugs and ninjas. Keaton killed the Joker and a few thugs, Kilmer killed 2 face. I can't remember if Clooney whacked anyone.

What bugged me the most (character wise) were the portrayals of Wonder Woman and Lex Luthor. Gal Gadot looks nothing like WW, can't act, can't fight, plus her accent was annoying. They might as well have swapped her for Gina Carano who at least has 2 of the 3. Jessie Eisenberg's Luthor was decent all things considered. But often times he felt too soft. Like a pompous kid trying to play "bad guy" as opposed to the cold, scheming, megalomaniacal bad-ass we all know and love.

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#504 Posted by worldFlash (253 posts) - - Show Bio

@child_of_the_past: I don't think the trailers did anything that was not true to the movie. The movie is different from the current marvel theme, and this is a fight that many comic book fans argue about. It may have been given to much hype from fans, but it also received much hate with many attacking casting choices, and the direction of the movie, prior to any trailers coming out.

I might of misinterpreted your comment about the marvel movies then because I thought you were comparing the two. I only brought up the Marvel films to say that the early Marvel films were not as good as the first Avengers movie, and that while this movie has a cast size similar to Avengers or Civil War, it is still the second movie in DC's movie-verse, so it will take time for them to build and become less sloppy and more concrete.

My annoyance with the comments, and what I think gets us back to your original comment, was that many people are giving this a very negative critic, that seems to be harsher then what it should be. From what I've seen around 40% of people dislike the movie, 40% of people think its average and are confused with why the other 40% is hating the movie, and the last 20% thought the movie was fantastic and are mad that its getting poor reviews. I haven't seen it so I don't know what camp I'll fall in, but I do think the movie has been getting much hate, and that people are merely defending the film because that either thought it was average or thought it was good.

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#505 Edited by PunyParker (15717 posts) - - Show Bio

@majinn3 said:
@Elbarto17 said:

I will refer to Batman, because that's the only part that concerns me.

He kills people.

A lot of people.

This was garbage.

Overall the portrayal was excellent, Affleck is great.

But Batman kills people.......Batman has one goddamn rule, Snyder.....ONE.

Bullsh$t.

Well in Snyder's Defense:

1. Batman has killed multiple times in his earliest comics (hell he was packing a gun in those days). The whole "no killing" thing came later partially due to the "comics code".

2. Virtually every other movie incarnation of Batman has killed at least 1 person. Bale killed all of his major villains except the Joker and the scarecrow, plus a shitload of thugs and ninjas. Keaton killed the Joker and a few thugs, Kilmer killed 2 face. I can't remember if Clooney whacked anyone.

What bugged me the most (character wise) were the portrayals of Wonder Woman and Lex Luthor. Gal Gadot looks nothing like WW, can't act, can't fight, plus her accent was annoying. They might as well have swapped her for Gina Carano who at least has 2 of the 3. Jessie Eisenberg's Luthor was decent all things considered. But often times he felt too soft. Like a pompous kid trying to play "bad guy" as opposed to the cold, scheming, megalomaniacal bad-ass we all know and love.

Not saying you are wrong (in fact, you're absolutely right), indeed all Batmen killed, but Batman's thing, that makes him noble, and not, actually, how Clark sees him in the film, a "Ruthless, mercyless, violent piece of sh^t" is the "No killing" rule.......and i stand by it.

No one dies.

And yeah, they all killed, but i don't think it was intentional, or at least "advertised" .......here he carries a gun, or a version of, in most of his screentime....

FOR ME, Bats is a f%cking ninja.....who does not need guns.At all.

In some comics, it's mentioned, that he despises guns, even...

Don't get me wrong, i loved Batman, in general, but the fact that he kills people, and the movie doesn't care about it, bugs me.....

Also, the branding....what?

Batman "brands" criminals, so they get the appropriate "treatment" in jail??........No.At least for me, it's a MASSIVE no.

In fact, now i realise, that i like Affleck more, than the character of Batman, in the movie.

I really REALLY hope that in his standalone, where he will act by himself, it will be addressed.....because if, actually, Snyder came to me and said "We made him so cruel and violent so people can practically believe, even for a second, that he can take on the entity that is Superman" i would totally get it. :)

So i can safely say.....IN YOUR FACE, Batffleck haters, i supported the casting choice, from the start!! :P

And about your notes, i liked Lex, but i get what you're saying.
I didn't care about Diana, and that's the problem....

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#506 Posted by Child_of_the_Past (397 posts) - - Show Bio

@worldflash: You seem to have a problem with with fact that people have negative opinions about a film you haven't seen. If you disagree with there criticism that's fine, but the people who express them have every right to do so. If your issue is the degree of negativity surrounding their comments, I don't know what to tell you. The psychology behind why people are more negative about certain things than others is far too complicated to discuss here. Regardless, you can't just dismiss their opinions and call them fanboys, which many people are trying to do.

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#507 Posted by worldFlash (253 posts) - - Show Bio

@child_of_the_past: I don't think I've used the term fanboys, nor do I have a large problem with it; being annoyed doesn't mean I'm bashing my head on my keyboard. This started because you said you were tired of people defending the movie, I replied that I thought that there were more people who blatantly been hating on it since it was announced. That was my opinion at the time though. I think the frequency of the people defending this movie and the frequency of people bashing it is just that the movie is average. It has a large group of people who like it and hate it, so objectively it might just be average.

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#508 Posted by Chimeroid (9267 posts) - - Show Bio

I will refer to Batman, because that's the only part that concerns me.

He kills people.

A lot of people.

This was garbage.

Overall the portrayal was excellent, Affleck is great.

But Batman kills people.......Batman has one goddamn rule, Snyder.....ONE.

Bullsh$t.

ACtually, the reason (as stated in comics) why Batman doesnt kill anyone is that once he starts he will never be able to stop.

All jokes aside, you can see Alfred in the movie was disgruntled about Battfleck killing and the movie did give a LOT of time for you to notice he was losing his mind from grief and Manipulation of Lex Luthor Junior.

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#509 Posted by STELIOS23 (378 posts) - - Show Bio

I stomached the movie as much as I could. But if Superman is you favorite character, this movie is not for you. He's mopey and he's stupid. Batman gets the drop on him him with a kryptonite gas grenade. Cool. Supes has no experience with the stuff at this point and has no reason to think an earth made weapon fired at him will do him any damage. We'll ignore the fact that Batman used cover a smoke grenade to hide hide from Superman. Sure. Maybe the smoke was lined with lead and supressed the sound of his breathing and heartbeat. Whatever. Anyway, if Superman takes a deep breath from kryptonite gas, my kid could wreck him. So an armored Batman proceeds to do so. But Superman recovers. If Superman has even basic intelligence, the fight is over at that moment. At least it should've been. But what does the son of Krypton's smartest scientist do? He stands there and watches while Batman reloads the weapon that JUST WRECKED HIM 5 MINUTES AGO! I was literally sitting in the theatre going, "What the hell are you waiting for Mr Faster Than A Speeding Bullet? You know what he's about to do! Get your butt over there grab that thing and toss it into orbit...or fly away, come back from a different direction faster than Batman can blink and knock him unconscious...or melt the trigger with you damn heat vision...or use your heat vision to detonate the grenade before he fires it at you! But don't wait until the moment he's about to FIRE THE DAMN THING AND RUSH HIM YOU DOPE!!" Or should I say Superdope. Of course you could've avoided all this by just telling him outright you needed help finding Martha...because you forgot you had a little less than an hour to scour the planet with super speed using your vast sensory abilities to find her your damn self.

Thank u, this pretty much summed up my thoughts on this (VS.) Movie, with some source material from DKR I wasn't expecting much and I'm just glad it's over now.

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#510 Posted by deactivated-5a4e0e8ea3dfb (796 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm trying to remember if people threw such a fit about killing for Captain America: The First Avenger with the film having given Cap a gun yet the later films don't. Sure people will say that he got a gun in war.....but then I'll point you to shows like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D where the main characters kill people in almost every episode (notice that the icers went away fairly quickly as a consistent piece of equipment).

Now I'm not saying that Batman needs to be toting around a grenade launcher or using a semi-automatic weapon......but let's stop kidding ourselves on this "one rule" thing. It was a way to stop the assault on comic books in the 50's and frankly the other graphics and liberal use of clothing and concepts like correct anatomy in the industry today are just as bad, if not worse, than occasionally knocking off a criminal. If comics are no longer a children's book and we can show Batman and Catwoman/Black Canary/Talia/random girlfriend starting to undress for sex, allude to sex, show a near naked woman or Batman after sex, etc than what exactly is wrong with showing bloodless death and fire explosions or the aftermath of a branding? If were not expecting the comics to revert back to a "more innocent time" (a term I personally loathe but seem to hear all often these days) than why should we expect it of the films?

Not to mention that what Batman does in this film is probably the single consistency point in the entire movie. So much else is a seesaw plot hole that the film actually carrying out one of its prospects; showcasing a bitter, weary, and raging Batman; is something of a relief. Plus the fact that its done with so little emotion (aside from when he's yelling at Superman in the church) still makes it reverberate with the concept of Batman as a whole......a driven man whose absolutely cold and calculating in his approach to challenges (heck, even the animated series versions showcase this all the time). Whether he kills or not is simply an aesthetic decision by that particular writer/director to getting the portrayal of the true concept down.

Which is why Cavrill's Superman continues to fail at its basic level. This isn't to mean Cavrill is a bad actor. In fact, if not for the universe his Superman is being shown in, I think Cavrill could easily be at the top of contenders for best Superman......they just didn't allow him to play it the way he could. Had he been allowed to go more a style like we saw in Man from U.N.C.L.E or even his time on Tudors, a bit more smooth and carefree (minus the womanizer aspects) than consistently introspective and depressed (one of those inconsistencies I mentioned considering his first lines of dialog in the film are to the effect of "I don't care what everyone is saying") than I think a lot of the films "dark" criticisms would be taken care of.

That doesn't mean the film needs to be all sunshine and rainbows......the core concept of the film could still have stayed because there is justification in Batman's anger over the loss of so many lives and echoing the Senator's point of not talking and coming to an understanding. So Batman wanting to fight Superman due to the events of MoS makes sense (heck, even MoS had been improved overall Metropolis would still have taken a beating and the loss of life still been high enough to warrant the public's general anger). The public having mixed feelings and opinions of Superman makes sense. Most of Lex's role in the fight was unnecessary but the duality of how he talks about his father fits into the duality by which people trust or fear Superman (they could have even kept him as the provider of the Trinity's enemy by focusing more on a defense contracting threat.....Metallo's, Amazo's, those warsuits from the animated series pilot, etc...) would have fit into the narrative. All of that could have still worked.

If Cavrill had been allowed to play a different type of Superman overall. Had the Superman presented stayed away from the melodrama that highlighted the Smallville series or the 70's and 90's era of comics and more from fan favorites like the George Reeve, Christopher Reeves, and animated series incarnations in general mentality and approach to living in the world as Superman it would have been the refreshing contrast the film needed to balance what are strong emotions and stances presented. One thing that could have helped change that is shedding modern interpretations of the need for Superman to find his origins. Though Birthright and Secret Origins didn't completely divorce themselves of the notion they brought key ideas like Clark having access to kryptonian databases early in his life that could have been used to their full extent for Clark to know his heritage for the majority of his life. He sees the ship...might as well take it all the way. Or the idea presented for the Dean Cain version that its Clark, when his true strength begins to emerge, that adopts the glasses rather than his parents suggesting them.....showcasing a maturity and comfort with retaining his secrets while enjoying a normal life that the anonymity brings from that.

Another aspect of the presented Superman that the film didn't take advantage of was the relationship of Clark and Lois. This was a missed opportunity because the film really tried to showcase how Lois feels and what she's willing to do to help Clark but I think it would have been better to show them working together, collaborating, showcase their distinctions but also how they compliment the other in work and in their relationship. Instead we get a very one sided approach to things due to the drive to present a moody and depressed Superman.

Rather than dive headlong into why the heavy reliance on messianic concepts is completely unnecessary to the films (a lesson one would have thought they learned from Smallville which overused the concept to the point of continual rating drops throughout its 10 seasons as the emphasis became greater and greater) and puts a further unnecessary weight on the character and overall theme I'll leave it with Batman vs Superman was not a horrible film nor was it a great film. Action scenes were good and Cavrill and Affleck played both sides of their characters well for the restrictions imposed by the theme of the film (Affleck having the easiest time of it I think as playing anger, much like being a "mean" drill instructor or coach, is a lot easier than other types) and its overall a good cast. It could have been better but it relied too much on a restrictive theme and world set-up to allow the better parts to truly shine.

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#512 Posted by Renzoa (377 posts) - - Show Bio

look people you guys are forgetting the big question here,who won the fight

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#513 Posted by never give up (24994 posts) - - Show Bio
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#514 Edited by apg103 (210 posts) - - Show Bio

*Spoiler Warning

So i just saw this movie today. i thought it was overall good, but had the potential to be so much better. Cavill as Superman and Ben as Batman were both perfectly well done, cudos to both those guys. People mentioned Batman killing but I don't recall this happening, sure he was super violent stabbing and even shooting at criminals, but I cant say he officially did any killing.

Wonder Womans character was bland and didn't really do anything for me. Why was she there? to retrieve an old picture of herself from Belgium 1918? That's basically all we know about her and the actor is pretty thin, dose not really look like her.

Lex was pretty terrible as i suspected, he had some cool moments, but some annoying others. His overall plan and motives where never really explained and his hatred for superman was never delved into. This actor really didnt look like the modern Lex at all, I'll always remember this actor in a bunch of teen movies or the facebook guy. I think Kevin Spacey was good and atleast he had the look.

The Bats/Sups fight was held off longer than you would think. According to the previews i though they would have a brief encounter in the beginning and then Batman would return in the suit for the bigger fight later on. But on here they fight at the end, then stop, and immediately begin to fight doomsday. Just not a good flowing pace here.

The CGI and noise with doomsday was crazy a little overwhelming, by the time they were fighting him i was about ready for it to be over. I dont think anyone really cared about Doomsday he was just there as a guy strong enough to fight all 3 at the end.

The use of kryptonite was fairly well used. And the build up to Darkseid seemed good also.

I do have some questions thoh

How did Superman know Batmans identity? And how did Lex know Supermans identity? When did either of these characters figure those out?

Who was the guy that came out the portal to talk to batman? he kinda looked like the atom

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#515 Posted by apg103 (210 posts) - - Show Bio

I did like Man of Steel better than this movie

and lois going after that spear was dumb as hell.

same with batman freaking out about how him and clarks mom have the name first name

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#516 Posted by apg103 (210 posts) - - Show Bio

Also why didnt wonder woman stab him with the spear, instead of fake killing superman? i say fake killing bc we all know this is all a build up to the justice leauge

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#517 Posted by apg103 (210 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenoobstomper:

Just got back from the theatre

BRIEF OPINION:

Started of well,nightmare sequence was confusing as fuck,too much stuff packed in the movie,way too rushed,almost no character invested,plot was all over the place if non existant at all,editing despite what most people say was fine,Doomsday was mediocre at best,acting is fine,visuals are fine,the bad guy has no motive,destruction porn,a few CGI scenes aren't that good but they re not bad either in short i would give it a 3/10.

Now,take into account i prefer Marvel over DC,but even though i didn't expect it to be like a Marvel Film,i was hoping it would be balanced but oh boy it wasn't.Its better than GL and almost like MoS in tone but THE FUCKING PLOT IS AAAAAAAAAAAAAALL OVEEEEEERAAAAAAAAA THA PLACEEEEEEEE!

SPOILERS AHEAD:

So at best i could say its an average movie,and you will probably need to be a little high to enjoy it.The opening sequence that shows Bruce's early childhood and his prespective on the Metropolis destruction was really good.Then we are introduced to the kryptonite though and Lex who appears to want it to make a weapon that will kill Superman for reasons,cause there is no actual motive shown behind his actions.He is more of an amalgam of the Joker and the Riddler rather than the serious menacing Luthor that we know.Then,we get to see how people view Superman which is another interesting element of the whole movie.AND THEN,WE SEE WONDER WOMAN.I dont recall the last time i saw Diana acting like a spy,and more than that,she was able to find the device Bruce placed in Lex's servers while she was more than 1 floor away from him when he placed the tracker/decrypter.Apparently,she was after a picture of hers from World War 2 i guess,for which picture though she looked like she posed actually.Meaning it wasn't actually a pic taken against her will or something.Anyway,moving forward.Lex proceeds to blow up the Senet,making it look like Superman did it and Batman actually takes the bait,even though its plain as the sky that such an explosion was not caused by Superman but by a freaking bomb.I just remembered,earlier in the film there is a tracker placed inside a reporter's camera who assists Lois Lane so that if she is in danger,Sups can save her.Who put that tracker in there and why is beyond explanation.Its supposed to be placed by Lex to lure Superman in there,after Lex's agents have taken out most of the terrorists to make it look like Superman did it.But how did Lex know that Superman would appear when Lois was in danger is also beyond explanation.

Moving forward,Batman finally decides to take on Superman and opens up the bat signal to lure Superman in.Meanwhile,Lex threatens Superman that if he doesn't fight Batman,he will kill his mother(step mother) who again we have no clue as to how he identified her.Superman proceeds to fight him,ends up getting almost killed but then all of a sudden Lois appears at the right place at the right time out of PURE CHANCE to prevent Clark's death.After she talks Batman out of killing Clark,Batman proceeds to save Clark's mother while Clark goes after Luthor.The spear Batman would have used to kill Clark is thrown in a water pit and you get this feeling that this weapon will be used as a finishing tool in the final fight.Anyway,Batman fight afterwards,great sequence and then o my God,we get to Doomsday...To start of with that atrocity,he was born out of a mix of Zod's corpse and Lex's blood,which he dripped in Zod's face by slicing his palm BEFORE the mainframe computer told him anything about the procedure.Actually,the blood could have nothing to do with the whole transformation but anyway.The mainframe states it hosts information from over 100.000 different worlds(hold than in mind).We then get Doomsday who looks like an oversized grey troll,who for some reason produces a huge energy explosion when under attacked for whatever reason(they said he absorbed the energy,but clearly he emits much more than he "Drains"),he grows bones every time he gets attacked and is your casual total savage monster you would expect.In the end,the military sees that weapons cant do anything to it,and Batman with Superman realize than ONLY KRYPTONIAN weapons can kill it.They get the spear back(which is not kryptonian by the way,it just has a kryptonian rock on top of it),and proceed to stab Doomsday in the chest with it,which for some reason seems to be killing him,even though Wonder Woman's sword was able to also cut through his skin pretty easily but hey,lets make it dramatic.Then of course Superman gets stabbed to the chest as well by one of Doomsday's bones that replaced the hand Wonder Woman cut off,which took out almost his entire thorax as it went fully through him.So,Superman should be dead now.He wasn't knocked out,he HAD A HUGE WHOLE IN HIS CHEST,AND IT WAS NIGHT,SO NO SUNLIGHT TO MAGICALLY REVIVE HERE.After the whole drama funeral music,Batman visits Lex in prison and Luthor seems to be going crazy as he starts spewing crap like "HE IS COMING!# AGHAHAHA! THE BELLS HAVE RUNG AND U CANT UNDO IT!" probably talking about Darkseid,about which only God knows how he knows that he is coming on earth,since he didnt really have much time to study all the information on the kryptonian database and plus,that database was limited and the ship functioning to 38% of its capacity,so how the fuck could the spaceship computer know that a galactic god will come towards earth 1 year after it(the ship) was nearly destroyed and received no new information from any outside sources for the last year,is mind blowing.Then we get to the final scene where Batman tells WW to help him find all the other meta humans cause they will need to fight,she asks what,and he says i have a feeling,and then we see underground Superman's corpse case and the dirt of top of it starts to levitate for a brief second indicating he is alive.How the fuck did he recover from a whole in his chest is beyond the average viewer.

Let me also say,the Flash's cameo was fine,Aquaman's was shit,he acted like a caveman in his scene where he was poking an underwater droid with his trident like what the fuck,and Cyborg's also weird,showing a cube that acted like it was made of living nanotechnology and started fusing with a crippled body without any reason at all but anyways.

Now on to the big shit with Batman's nightmare sequence.He gets apprehended in a world where the world is taken over by Darkseid(which only fans will understand,by the huge omega on a deserted spot on the face of the earth) and Superman works for him.As he(Batman) wakes up from that sequence a form appears(which seems to be either the Flash or Cyborg) telling him that she (Lois Lane) is the key and that he has to stop him (probably Superman).This form appears to be time travelling to warn Batman of future events.But even that event is happening in a freaking dream.Its almost like an inception level thing.Which makes no sense.

Very well put!!!

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#518 Posted by PunyParker (15717 posts) - - Show Bio

ACtually, the reason (as stated in comics) why Batman doesnt kill anyone is that once he starts he will never be able to stop.

All jokes aside, you can see Alfred in the movie was disgruntled about Battfleck killing and the movie did give a LOT of time for you to notice he was losing his mind from grief and Manipulation of Lex Luthor Junior.

When did Alfred object on anything?....he was just being snarky, and cautious, when it came to Superman.....

And i don't think Snyder cares about Batman killing, as long as it's not stated, or as long as he doesn't, flat out, shoot people in the head...

Batman has 3 rules.

  • No killing
  • No guns
  • No drinking

He breaks all three of them, in one picture.

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#519 Posted by Chimeroid (9267 posts) - - Show Bio
@chimeroid said:

ACtually, the reason (as stated in comics) why Batman doesnt kill anyone is that once he starts he will never be able to stop.

All jokes aside, you can see Alfred in the movie was disgruntled about Battfleck killing and the movie did give a LOT of time for you to notice he was losing his mind from grief and Manipulation of Lex Luthor Junior.

When did Alfred object on anything?....he was just being snarky, and cautious, when it came to Superman.....

And i don't think Snyder cares about Batman killing, as long as it's not stated, or as long as he doesn't, flat out, shoot people in the head...

Batman has 3 rules.

  • No killing
  • No guns
  • No drinking

He breaks all three of them, in one picture.

Really? Did we watch the same movie and trailers? "The Fever, the Rage, the Feeling of Powerlessness that Turns Good Men Cruel" that was Alfred telling Bruce that he is becoming too cruel. And Batman replied with, "We have always been criminals, Alfred".

Batman has killed. At the beginning of his comic book carrier he killed like it was nothing special. And after there are still examples of him killing people(1988 he crushes people under cars, 2007 he lets them burn to death) . Especially in alternate universes, which this is.

Batman has used guns. He usually refurbishes them to look like Batgadgets but he uses guns all the time.

In the Dark Knight Returns he was hitting Whiskey like it was water.

Either way, we saw that Batman here was different than the mainstream universe. And we also saw him go crazy from the story.

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#520 Posted by dimitridkatsis (3019 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

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#521 Posted by tiraomoz (980 posts) - - Show Bio

I saw dawn of justice yesterday and this is my review.If I were to be a critic in imdb I would give the film 6.9/10 and if I were to be a critic in rottentomatoes I would give it 60%.The major reason for my somewhat high score if the fact that the peformance of ben afleck was exceptionally wonderful being the best batman for me so far,henry cavil continues to do a good job playing superman and I'm in love with gal galdot TBH I initially underestimated her playing the WW role but I regret doing so jesse eisenberg didn't impress me in any way and ezra miller looks like he will be a good flash contrary to peoples initial opinion.Dawn of justice was a cool movie overall,not great,awsome or mind blowing but cool.There were several problems with this movie especially plots that make no sense.The first one is the issue of batman having a dream about the future and flash coming to warn him,that scene didn't link to the direction the movie was heading,in the not so distant future louise dies and superman becomes a dictator which is why flash came to warn him but then the major reason and the whole point for batman heeding flash's warning wasn't justified at all in the film because louise was going to die but by drowning so how is it batmans fault,I don't know if you guys understand my point its not really easy to put in words and why did batman have a dream about superman being evil before the second dream where flash warns him,it doesn't make sense.Another big problem I had with the film was when WW cut off doomsday's hand,guys common I know she can wound him which is what she was doing but then after much struggle she cut off his hand easily when the only thing that can penetrate is kryptonite.The actual fact that she can't lomp off doomsdays limb because he is just the hulk form of superman and she can't wound superman that deeply is something I can't overlook also if she could remove him hand what stopped her from removing his head instead of superman going through the whole trouble of stabing doomsdays and equally geting himslef stabbed that scene just doesn't make sense to me,to me that contradictory flash and wonder woman scene wasn't well though out before putting it into script on the other hand the glimpse of flash,aquaman and cyborg was awsome.I hope DC learn their lesson from dawn of justice and get better script writers and also they should change zach synder if they know what is good for them,george miller would do a better job,snyders movies are too dark which isn't what people need from the upcoming justice league lastly there was no villian in this movie,the lex character was very stale and I don't consider doomsdays a villian at all.

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#522 Edited by dimitridkatsis (3019 posts) - - Show Bio

@captain_batman_ftw said:

How is this the greatest version of an adapted Batman when he har no moral and ethics? This is easily administrasjon the worst Batman. Sure, Snyder manager to hit most of the character's trademarks like paranoia, fighting and darkness, but this version han no morality, and therefore seemed like a sadistic sosiopath. It didn't feel like Batman. I mean, he killed multiple times in the movie, and he didn't even hesitate. This Batman is the worst Batman for me, and obvious why it is.

No Caption Provided

He even concpirated to kill someone cause he dreamt he would turn bad, that's some stupid shit right there by the world's greatest detective.

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#523 Posted by DogSoldier88 (774 posts) - - Show Bio

Bat-Punisher was awesome in the movie. In fact, he was more like Punisher than the Punisher in the Daredevil Netflix series. Even Frank Castle wasn't branding people - which is just insane.

If you go into the movie seeing this as an Elseworlds inspired movie universe, than you should be ok with the movie. They're setting up a Darkseid related or Injustice related Justice League sequel.

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#524 Edited by dimitridkatsis (3019 posts) - - Show Bio

@OkRaider88: How about making kryptonite bullets instead of a spear then? Shit doesn't even make sense in its own context, awful stupid crap.

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#525 Posted by DogSoldier88 (774 posts) - - Show Bio

@dimitridkatsis: You're right. He's taken the time to manufacture gas and a spear, instead of making kryptonite fragmenting 223 rem (5.56mm) bullets - which could be fired out of ANY AR-15 rifle. Superman would assume it's just a regular rifle and stand there and take it. After all, he stood there and got pummeled by the auto-guns. THAT would have been a perfect moment to riddle him with kryptonite bullets.

But no... a spear is so much more "personal". Bat-Fleck wanted to kill him in a personal, up close way.

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#526 Posted by dimitridkatsis (3019 posts) - - Show Bio
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#527 Posted by amazing_webhead (9878 posts) - - Show Bio

quite frankly, i loved this movie, despite the faults i will admit it had

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#528 Edited by PunyParker (15717 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: I really won't go into massive detail, because i don't think this movie, and debating about it, is worth my time, but i need to mention that the "no killing" rule makes Batman noble and human.
|It's what separates him from any other common criminal, it's why he DOESN'T KILL.
"Once i go that rout, there's no coming back, and i'm dropping the their level''....i'm paraphrasing what he said to Todd, when he asked him why didn't he kill
Joker, after he beat the snott out of him, with a crowbar.
I'm FULLY against this, and i think i have all right to be....
Also, he was drinking when he was RETIRED, in Miller's story......please, this is not an arguement.
And the gun arguement......he uses projectiles, when i say guns i mean literally, guns that shoot bullets, and kill people.....
And finally, you seriously defending this poorly edited, awfully written, clusterf*cking movie?

Come on....

-------------

THAT SAID.....giving you the point, for your last thought......i needed ONE scene where he says to Alfred "I'm not the same after his death" or something, NOTHING MORE, to just say "I'm okay with this, no problem, kill away." ...i'm being humorous, but you get my drift.

SOMETHING to partially explain to me his actions....

------------

Food for thought : There's absolutely no reason to make a Batman-Joker film, now.......cuz there's no reason for him not to snap his damn neck, the minute he sees him.

Also, don't percieve this as fighting, we're talking. :)

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#529 Posted by Chimeroid (9267 posts) - - Show Bio

@Elbarto17: What i do agree upon is that they should have verbalized a lot more of it so we can feel it. It was obvious Todds costume was important for some reason but they said nothing about it. Hopefully the extra 30 minutes of directors cut could shine some light on it. I still feel the most memorable line of the movie and the trailers explains a lot personality wise.

I have no problem with him drinking because the idea of this movie is to show him as a broken form of his previous self. That is what i was seeing the entire film.

Guns with bullets that kill. I get it. He used it. As i said, that is who Batman was originally intended to be. They just changed it into him being PG rated later on and it stuck.

I agree that you should have your opinion on this since this is quite "to each his own" type of film.

And while we are at it i never understood why criminals in comics were afraid of him. If it was cops they could get killed. But Bats saves them as well... There are hundreds of forum posts of people being angry because batman doesn't kill with sentences "all the kills Joker made after their first altercation are blood on Batmans hands for not killing him" but, when they got what they asked for, they suddenly don't like it.

In comics Batman is unbeatable enough to not have to kill his opponents. He can casually disregard gun fire as he can dodge it and even punch it out of air. Here, in one fight he was not mowing them down he got stabbed. So i quite understand the need to kill goons when you are at 1vs 25. But once more. In the movie we only saw him kill people after he started tripping out that the world is coming to an end if he doesn't get Kryptonite. And in the comics he is not much different. Remember, he was ready to destroy the Earth so Darkseid doesn't get it.

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#530 Posted by Chimeroid (9267 posts) - - Show Bio

@Elbarto17: Forgot to add. Batman himself said something along the lines of "you either die a hero bla bla".

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#531 Edited by Wigglemethis (8 posts) - - Show Bio

@apg103: I totally get what you are stating. Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Batman technically did his blatant killing in his nightmare sequence (shooting point blank, snapping necks), but during the movie this is assumed I guess by the majority of folks watching it, I did cringe when he point blank shot the baddies in his nightmare sequence though. No one is actually shot at to kill from my perspective and he was not using a gun during the warehouse scene, it was a type of batarang looking thing. He also knew Superman would catch his bullet that shot the gas at him. Also, The cool scene with the guy that looks like the atom was the Flash (he not only time travels due to his speed, he actually crosses dimensions, I think this was what happened, he came from an alternate dimension where Superman was not humbled by the bat.....had an injustice vibe). The identity reveals not sure. Maybe Batman did not use a lead lined mask, but I had the same exact question. I honestly enjoyed the entire movie, the pacing needs help because of editing, but I think people are just coming in hyper critical and simply not enjoying the movie. Lex killed it with "grandma's peach tea", that scene was brilliant, but the rest of the movie, he did not read as Lex, I thought he was trying to be a toned down movie version of Jim Carrey's Riddler or something like that. I don;t think people realize how much movie editing can ruin things, I think this is mainly what happened. Especially with Doomsday and first hour. Though Doomsday growing the spikes and fighting with Wonder Woman was really cool in my opinion.

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#532 Posted by Wigglemethis (8 posts) - - Show Bio

@amazing_webhead: Same here, I am catching up on my new 52 batman and have already read TDK and TDKR and in all honesty, Affleck plays him to the T. There are also a few Easter Eggs in the things he actually says in the movie which I found cool. Was it perfect? No. Could it have been better? Yes. Did I still enjoy it? Yes. I actually loved it.

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#533 Edited by amazing_webhead (9878 posts) - - Show Bio

@wigglemethis said:

@amazing_webhead: Same here, I am catching up on my new 52 batman and have already read TDK and TDKR and in all honesty, Affleck plays him to the T. There are also a few Easter Eggs in the things he actually says in the movie which I found cool. Was it perfect? No. Could it have been better? Yes. Did I still enjoy it? Yes. I actually loved it.

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#534 Edited by PunyParker (15717 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid said:

@Elbarto17: I still feel the most memorable line of the movie and the trailers explains a lot personality wise.

The Alfred line?

Yeah, i think you're right, i thought about it, and it may be indirectly aiming at Bruce.

@chimeroid said:

I have no problem with him drinking because the idea of this movie is to show him as a broken form of his previous self. That is what i was seeing the entire film.

No problem with him drinking while being retired, and essentially "losing it" without the cowl, but he's doing it while being Batman.....

I mean, it's like Snyder read the Miller story, and just took SOME parts from it.....

@chimeroid said:

Guns with bullets that kill. I get it. He used it. As i said, that is who Batman was originally intended to be. They just changed it into him being PG rated later on and it stuck.

And again, the "no kiiling" rule is something that defines him.....he was killing in the 40s.....ok, i get it too, but we don't need to embrace everything that people and/or characters were in the 40s.....

You don't need examples, you're a smart man, i think you can figure it out.

@chimeroid said:

And while we are at it i never understood why criminals in comics were afraid of him. If it was cops they could get killed. But Bats saves them as well... There are hundreds of forum posts of people being angry because batman doesn't kill with sentences "all the kills Joker made after their first altercation are blood on Batmans hands for not killing him" but, when they got what they asked for, they suddenly don't like it.

I, for bad or good, am one of those fans that admires that he doesn't kill, and understand that.

Everyone deserves a second chance.

And he does it, so no kid would suffer what he suffered.

And, of course, what he said to Todd, (what i wrote in my previous post)

It makes him a hero........the BvS Batman is not a hero, he's a routhless, violent vigilantee, and the "Real Batman" (for me) would go after him......

And i can't get over the "branding" bizz.......for God's sake, why?!!

You send a criminal to jail, and you essentially place a "Death tag" on him.....you're not killing him, you're just creating all the circumstances for him to die.....that's what he does in the whole movie, anyway.

@chimeroid said:

In comics Batman is unbeatable enough to not have to kill his opponents. He can casually disregard gun fire as he can dodge it and even punch it out of air. Here, in one fight he was not mowing them down he got stabbed. So i quite understand the need to kill goons when you are at 1vs 25. But once more. In the movie we only saw him kill people after he started tripping out that the world is coming to an end if he doesn't get Kryptonite. And in the comics he is not much different. Remember, he was ready to destroy the Earth so Darkseid doesn't get it.

Speaking of 1v25, i nerded out big time, with the trailer of him clearing that room.....i mean, my whole life i waited for a Batman that can clear a room full of 25 people.

It's comicbook Batman.

I don't care about the "Batgod" comments, i don't give a sh^t, i LOVE it.

BUT.....you just restrict your own imagination, by making him kill people....

"What will Batman do, now that they're shooting at him?!!!....what elaborate and clever way will he find to apprehand the criminals, stop the car, AND not kill them?!!!...i'm excited to see tha--....oh.....Batmobile has a machinegun, and he just slaughtered them.....alright, that was fun..."

Tell me that AT LEAST you get THAT^^ .....please.

And he can clear a room full of 25 people, without killing them, cuz he's a ninja....the BEST ninja on the planet.....and that's why i love him....cuz he's unique!.....

It's TOO EASY for him to just go and kill them all....

@chimeroid said:

@Elbarto17: Forgot to add. Batman himself said something along the lines of "you either die a hero bla bla".

Dent said that.

And wait, you're saying that he was indeed the villian, in the movie?...

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#535 Posted by Chimeroid (9267 posts) - - Show Bio

@Elbarto17: Well yes let's say we got agreed upon points you are right for literally everything you said, but then again, i still feel to be right about my own points,. And Dent said that in the last movie in this one Batfleck said that Gotham changes people for the worst.

So, yes, he went to his dark side for this movie. I feel this is "redemption" type story, where he remembers his own code once the illusion is broken with Clark showing he has people he cares about.

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#536 Posted by worldFlash (253 posts) - - Show Bio

@Elbarto17: He's broken all three of these in past movies.

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#537 Posted by worldFlash (253 posts) - - Show Bio

@zwm210: He uses a gun when he's going after two face.

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#538 Posted by Jasoninthewoods (380 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry we don't need another film where they crack jokes every two seconds while the world is in danger.

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#539 Posted by PunyParker (15717 posts) - - Show Bio

in this one Batfleck said that Gotham changes people for the worst.

True, but again, i think he wasn't talking about himself.
I still think he thinks he's doing the right thing.

So, yes, he went to his dark side for this movie. I feel this is "redemption" type story, where he remembers his own code once the illusion is broken with Clark showing he has people he cares about.

I hope Affleck does his solo Batman picture, and when he confronts Todd, who's doing EXACTLY what Batman does, so there won't need to be a difference between them.....i mean, Todd kills, Batman kills.....there's no conflict, so...yeah.

I got out of track, so when he confronts Todd, he realises that he has gotten off the hook or something.

@Elbarto17: He's broken all three of these in past movies.

They didn't advertise it, in any of them, and he was always (at least in the Nolan films) protecting this idea, of not killing....here he wants to kill, and kills.

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#541 Edited by O-Face (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@Elbarto17: Nolan's Batman's rule was about not playing Judge, Jury, and Executioner. No killing at all was never a rule.

Now of course, this Batman played(past tense) Judge, Jury, and Executioner. But its implied that wasn't always the case. Something broke him, but Superman caused him to change hence why he didn't brand Lex.

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#542 Posted by TheNoobStomper (795 posts) - - Show Bio

@apg103: Clark figured out Bruce was Batman during Lex's party thing where he could hear Alfred talking to Bruce via comms

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#543 Edited by Stellar421 (875 posts) - - Show Bio

Dear Comicvine, I feel it's unwise to post a review for a movie before the general public has had a chance to see it (it debuted two days after this review).

As for the movie, I think Kevin Smith said its best: "the movie's incoherent and the characters are unrecognizable."

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#544 Posted by Stellar421 (875 posts) - - Show Bio
@slayz said:

Ah, yes... The worst negative thing a film can do.

"Be serious".

You can be serious and thought-provoking. But that needs a vision and talent that Snyder just lacks.

This comment is spot on. I've always felt Snyder lacks what is necessary to helm a film these characters deserve. I'm disappointed he's heading the entire movie universe.

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#545 Posted by kasino (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

I absolutely loved it. Rotten critics have it at 29% and audience has it at 71%. So between just against DC and taken on the views of the critics this movie is awesome.

You read two reviews back to back and they are absolutely contradictory. One saying non-coherhent but the other says too much dialogue. The movie spent the entire 1st hour explaining the views and motives to every characters motives and demeanor(even Lex daddy issues are shown to why he's a maniac).

Others say what's with the email Bats send WW, as if she didn't just say she couldn't break into the data Lex had of her...boom there's the rest of the league as well.

There was character development for the right reasons. Why didn't Bats kill Supes? Because they have the same mothers name? BS!!..But Bats is literally bat shit crazy about his parents and there was just an hour spent on Bats saying Supes is an alien. Having a mother humanize anyone.

I think people don't want superhero films. I mean MoS was great as well. People spent years discussing it. Something that no other movie besides BvS seemed to manage. But both get a lot of heat for pretty much having more depth than snark and a reason to fight.

Then again I thought Watchmen and The Incredible Hulk were the only good movies who happen to be about superheroes(Before Nolan and Winter Solider). I like a world/situation in which a hero is needed. I also want the world to react to having these things. I think Marvel Netflix fits this and DCU.

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#546 Posted by kasino (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

Lex absolutely explained his reasoning.

Bats doesn't brand everyone. Just the worst of the worst like human traffickers..what they would call a skin crime(rape and such)..so you get the Bat brand you did something terrible and other criminals don't like you, why they called it a death sentence.

Jesus. What movie did people watch? There's not a plot point unexplained.

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#547 Posted by worldFlash (253 posts) - - Show Bio

@Elbarto17: True, but in the original movie his Batmobile is meant has a fail safe that kills 10 people, and in the second Nolan film he is rolling over cars, both of these cases are preventable. That being said, this Batman is similar to the Dark Knight Returns Batman who cares a lot less about his code of honor and more about getting the job done.

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#548 Posted by Wilhelm_Dolle (26 posts) - - Show Bio
#bffs
#bffs

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#549 Posted by PunyParker (15717 posts) - - Show Bio

@o-face said:

@Elbarto17: Nolan's Batman's rule was about not playing Judge, Jury, and Executioner. No killing at all was never a rule.

Now of course, this Batman played(past tense) Judge, Jury, and Executioner. But its implied that wasn't always the case. Something broke him, but Superman caused him to change hence why he didn't brand Lex.

I don't CARE about what Nolan thought, i'm talking about Batman's character, not his movies...

Nolan's Batman is a good movie(s) .....it's not a good Batman movie, it's a good movie.
If you get what i mean.

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#550 Edited by O-Face (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@Elbarto17 said:
@o-face said:

@Elbarto17: Nolan's Batman's rule was about not playing Judge, Jury, and Executioner. No killing at all was never a rule.

Now of course, this Batman played(past tense) Judge, Jury, and Executioner. But its implied that wasn't always the case. Something broke him, but Superman caused him to change hence why he didn't brand Lex.

I don't CARE about what Nolan thought, i'm talking about Batman's character, not his movies...

Nolan's Batman is a good movie(s) .....it's not a good Batman movie, it's a good movie.

If you get what i mean.

You say that like Batman's no-killing-rule is all there is to the character. Which is something he originally didn't have for a long time.